Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Kerry Gains Ground in Two Swing States; Bush Campaigns in the Heartland
Aired October 15, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from New York. I'm Anderson Cooper.
John Kerry gains ground in two swing states, but is it enough to give him the edge?
360 starts now.
John Kerry sits down for an exclusive one-on-one with CNN. Find out his strategy heading into the home stretch.
The president hits the heartland, hoping to recapture the Big Mo, but is he giving up on certain states?
An American platoon in Iraq accused of refusing a mission. Tonight, the military has them confined. We'll have details.
Bill O'Reilly on the ropes, accused of sexual harassment. He says it's extortion. Tonight we go 360 with the woman who's made the charges and hear her side of the story.
Martha Stewart speaks out. What she thinks of the prison and her guards.
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
COOPER: Good evening again.
Two Fridays more, three days after that, and there we are, the second of November. Push is rapidly coming to shove. If it's electoral votes you're counting, a new CNN survey finds John Kerry gaining ground in the swing states of Ohio and New Hampshire, with the president clinging to a narrow lead overall, 277 electoral votes to Senator Kerry's 261, with 270 guaranteeing election.
Still, if a state as small as Iowa goes from Bush to Kerry, the candidates will be tied at 269 electoral votes each, and the election would have to be decided by the House of Representatives.
CNN's senior political correspondent Candy Crowley sat down with Senator Kerry for an exclusive one-on-one today, and White House correspondent Dana Bash has been following the president's footsteps. We're going to hear from Dana shortly.
First, Candy Crowley. Candy?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the view from inside the Kerry campaign is looking good. His trend line, they say, is going up, and they are so excited about their get-out- the-vote effort, they say they can't talk about it, but it's unprecedented.
So what now? First, no mistakes. Second, no distractions, which is why John Kerry would very much like to stop talking about Mary Cheney.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): He seemed relaxed and confident and misunderstood.
(on camera): Do you understand why the Cheneys are upset, that this feels like an invasion of their privacy?
SEN. JOHN KERRY, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: They have talked about it themselves publicly.
CROWLEY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), but it's their daughter.
KERRY: I think the point I was trying to make -- I've said, really, Candy, I've said everything that needs to be said yesterday about it. It was meant entirely constructively.
CROWLEY: In what way? How was it constructive?
KERRY: It's respectful of who she is, and they've embraced her, and they love her.
CROWLEY (voice-over): Campaigning through Milwaukee, John Kerry sat down with an interview with CNN, trying to put Mary Cheney behind him and brush Ralph Nader aside.
KERRY: If people want a change, and they want responsibility for the middle class in America, don't throw away your vote. There's only one choice here. Either George Bush is going to be president, or John Kerry, and that's the vote.
CROWLEY (on camera): Nader is on the ballot in 30 states, including nine battlegrounds, where he could make a difference.
(on camera): Are you worried?
KERRY: I'm confident the American people are going to look at this race as the most important election of our lifetime.
CROWLEY (voice-over): Kerry has it down pat now, the words and thoughts perfected over a two-year campaign and three thought-focusing debates. Asked to name a mistake he's made over the past three years, he said he's sorry the deficit got so bad, that there won't be enough money to do all the things he originally proposed.
(on camera): You never once said to yourself, I wish I hadn't voted for the war resolution?
KERRY: No, I -- because, you see, what we did, we gave the president the authority to load the gun, to pull the trigger, so to speak. We didn't tell him to shoot himself in the foot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: On the economy, when I asked the senator what a unemployed worker from Wisconsin, which was where he was this morning, could expect in a Kerry administration in, say, February or March or April, he said, We could make some changes fairly quickly if Congress goes along. Anderson, I can tell you, having covered Capitol Hill, that's always the rub.
COOPER: Candy Crowley, thanks for that. More of that interview playing on "PAULA ZAHN" at 8:00.
With the polls showing the race tighter than ever, President Bush is pulling out some of the buzzwords from races past. Today, for example, use of the L-word, not lesbian, that's another story. Liberal is the word we're now hearing a lot of.
CNN White House correspondent Dana Bash tells us why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the post-debate world of sifting through what worked and what did not, the president's team put attacking John Kerry's health plan in the it worked column. So he's stepped it up in Cedar Rapids.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Studies conducted by people who understand small businesses concluded that his plan is an overpriced albatross. I have a different view. We'll work to make sure health care is available and affordable.
KERRY: God bless you all!
BASH: Bush aides know Kerry's constant reminders that millions lost health insurance or saw premiums skyrocket on the president's watch resonates with voters, but they say internal research shows labeling Kerry's health plan too costly strikes a nerve with swing voters.
BUSH: My opponent takes the side of more centralized control and more government. There's a word for that attitude. It's called liberalism.
BASH: Plus, attacking the senator's plan, as one top aide said, is the perfect way to put some meat on the John Kerry is a liberal bone, a bone the president is throwing to his GOP base these final days to make sure they vote.
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: Let's face it, what the Bush campaign is trying to do right now is to get as many voters up and out of their chairs and out of their offices into the polls on election day as they can.
BASH: Two thousand election results in Iowa and Wisconsin, the two states on this leg of the final sprint, show how critical that is. The president lost both by the narrowest of margins. The difference in Iowa, 3/10 of 1 percent, a mere 4,1144 votes. In Wisconsin, 2/10 of 1 percent, just 5,708 votes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Right now, it's a dead heat still in Iowa, but polls here in Wisconsin show the president has lost some ground to John Kerry since the debates. So the question now is whether or not the president's campaign continues to invest Mr. Bush's time and energy that he has been investing in traditionally Democratic states like Wisconsin, or whether or not it's still worth it, Anderson.
COOPER: Dana Bash, thanks for that.
President Bush's top political aide, Karl Rove, testified today before a grand jury looking into the leaking of a name of a CIA officer. The leak of the -- of officer Valerie Plame's name came as apparent retaliation for her husband writing an article questioning President Bush's reasons for going to war in Iraq.
Now, while the investigation into that leak continues, there are some concern that other leaks are becoming an even bigger problem for the White House.
Here's national security correspondent David Ensor.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While President Bush campaigns around the country, he leaves a U.S. intelligence community back in Washington where many are frustrated, even angry.
REVEL GERECHT, FORMER CIA OFFICER: They are in pain, and I imagine they will remain in pain as long as there is serious discussion on Capitol Hill and the White House about reorganizing the institution.
ENSOR: They are also upset by all the charges of intelligence failures. But the frustration may cut both ways. For over a month now, President Bush has had to dodge intelligence curveballs.
KENNETH POLLACK, FORMER CIA ANALYST: In the midst of a very tight presidential election, I think the Bush administration is probably very unhappy with the leaks that are coming out of the intelligence community.
ENSOR: First, the leak of a CIA estimate about Iraq, with three scenarios for the future, all of them gloomy. Next, word of a prewar CIA warning to the president that Ba'athists, terrorists, and nationalists would join forces against the Americans, which is exactly what they've done. DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This report is one I asked for.
ENSOR: The next leak put Vice President Cheney on the defensive, about a CIA report that he'd requested, warning that there was no proof Saddam knowingly harbored the terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi before the war, despite Cheney's longtime public assertions to the contrary.
After the first leak, the president reacted with irritation.
BUSH: They were just guessing as to what the conditions might be like.
POLLACK: Exactly the kind of remark that has rankled many people inside the intelligence community.
ENSOR: One former senior CIA official says the atmosphere between Langley and the White House is, quote, "about as poisoned as I've seen it."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: A knowledgeable senior official says he doesn't believe for a moment that CIA personnel systematically leak stuff to embarrass presidents. He says the leaks are likely coming from Congress or elsewhere in the executive branch. But the White House is left to wonder whether any more bad news will leak out before election day, Anderson.
COOPER: David Ensor in Washington. Thanks, David.
The cold of winter looms ahead, and the price of oil is hotter than ever. That story tops our look at news cross-country right now.
In New York, oil smashes a record yet again. The price of crude on the New York Mercantile Exchange actually hit $55 a barrel for a little while today before falling back, closing at $54.93.
Washington, D.C., pediatric warning labels on antidepressants. The FDA rules those medications must now carry a black-box warning, the strongest alert available, that children and adolescents face an increased risk of suicidal thoughts when the drugs are prescribed. The agency says antidepressants are beneficial to young patients, so the risk has got to be balanced with need.
Cheyenne, Wyoming, now, snowmobilers, start your engines. A federal judge has thrown out a ban on snowmobiles in Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks. He called the rule prejudiced and a political -- politically sneaky way to try and ban snowmobiles from all national parks.
Buffalo, New York, now, jailhouse admission from John Lennon's killer. Mark David Chapman says he wanted to steal Lennon's fame when he fired the deadly shot in 1980, that he always felt like a big nobody. Chapman said this to a parole board this month. Parole denied, and he's still a big nobody.
That's a look at stories cross-country tonight.
360 next, under investigation, U.S. troops in trouble for refusing to go on a mission they say was too dangerous because of bad equipment. We'll have their story.
Plus, Martha Stewart speaks from prison. Her first letter out, and a book in the making. Former inmate and Hollywood madam Heidi Fleiss joins us live to talk about that.
And "The O'Reilly Factor," dueling lawsuits over extortion and sexual harassment. We'll talk to the woman at the center of it all and hear her side.
First, let's take a look, your picks, the most popular stories right now on CNN.com.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, of all of the jobs military personnel do in Iraq, it's hard to think of anything less glamorous and more dangerous than driving a fuel truck in hostile territory. Tonight, there are reports that some soldiers there found that job too dangerous and may have refused to follow their orders.
The story now from Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is one of the most dangerous missions in Iraq, driving a convoy. This past Wednesday in Tallil, southeast of Baghdad, 19 soldiers from a supply platoon failed to report for a mission to drive a fuel truck north to Taji.
It is now believed five of the soldiers may actually have refused their orders.
The Army is emphasizing this is an isolated incident, saying, "It is far too early in the investigation to speculate as to what happened, why it happened, or any action that might be taken."
Patricia Ann McCook says the troops were worried about safety, including her husband, Sergeant Larry McCook.
PATRICIA ANN MCCOOK, WIFE OF SGT. LARRY MCCOOK: They don't have bulletproof protection on the vehicles. They just don't go fast at all. It's just not safe to be in a hostile territory.
STARR: Three probes are under way into the actions of the soldiers from the 343rd Quartermaster Company, a reserve unit from South Carolina. Investigators are talking to all of those involved, trying to find out what happened and why.
Another inquiry is determining whether there were violations of the uniform code of military justice. And the commanding officer has ordered a safety-maintenance stand-down, during which all vehicles will be inspected and retraining will be done.
According to a military source, some of the soldiers raised valid concerns, an indication there may have been safety problems with the equipment. But the source said the concerns were raised in an inappropriate manner, causing a breakdown in discipline.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: Now, Anderson, that convoy eventually was driven, but by another group of soldiers. Clearly, these soldiers were very upset about something. We've obtained a tape recording that one of the soldiers left this message on her mother's answering machine.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Mom, this is Amber. This is a real, real big emergency. I need you to contact someone. I mean, raise pure hell. We -- yesterday we refused to go to on a convoy to Taji, which is above Baghdad. We had...
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: So one of the soldiers leaving a message for her mother expressing her distress, one of the soldiers apparently involved in this incident. But the Army is emphasizing it's an isolated incident. So far, none of the soldiers under arrest. The investigation continues, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, we'll be watching. Barbara Starr, thanks.
Heavy fighting marks the beginning of Ramadan in Iraq, and that tops our look at what's happening around the world in the uplink.
U.S.-led forces launched more attacks today against insurgents in Fallujah, coinciding with the start of the Muslim holy month. Military officials say the mission lays the groundwork for a future offensive to retake the city. In recent weeks, there's been almost daily strikes against locations believed to be used by the Abu Musab al-Zarqawi terror network. They have intensified in the past two days.
In the Darfur region of Sudan, 70,000 people dead. That is the estimate from the U.N. now, which says hundreds of people are still dying in the wartorn region every day, despite efforts to get aid to refugees. Some 1.5 million people fled their homes to escape violence there. The U.N. calls it the world's worst humanitarian crisis going on.
Beijing, China, now, seeking asylum. Take a look, 20 people claiming to be North Koreans scaled walls, crawled under barbed wire to reach the South Korean consulate. China has recently experienced a flood of North Koreans seeking asylum. Many who have reached the embassies have been allowed to go to South Korea, desperate for some sort of freedom.
London, England, now, no death for Dinah, or Dino, I guess it is. A judge has granted clemency to a German shepherd that was sentenced to death for biting a woman's hand. Dino's owner spent thousands of dollars to spare his life, and the case went as far as the European Court of Human Rights. Today, he's one lucky dog.
That is a quick look at the uplink tonight.
360 next, Martha Stewart speaking out from prison. Her first letter to the outside world. Find out how she's being treated behind bars.
Plus, former inmate Heidi Fleiss joining us live. She shares her insights on the prison experience. That in a moment.
Also tonight, the woman who's taking on Bill O'Reilly. She joins us live. Plus, we'll hear from both sides of the legal debate on whether she has a case or not.
And a little later, the last presidential debate, it was 90 minutes long, and polls say President Bush got beat for a third time. So why is the media obsessed with the one-liner on Mary Cheney? That is this week's overkill.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: For Martha Stewart, going to prison is a lot like heading back to school, really. On her Web site, yes, even inmate go into cyberspace, the domestic diva has this to say about her prison.
Quote, "The camp is fine. It's pretty much what I anticipated. The best news, everyone is nice, both the officials and my fellow inmates. I've adjusted and am very busy. The camp is like an old- fashioned college campus, without the freedom, of course."
My next guest also gave prison that old college try. Heidi Fleiss served three years for charges related to her star-studded call girl ring. And while Stewart contemplates a memoir, the former Hollywood madam has a new book out for women called "The Player's Handbook: The Ultimate Guide on Dating and Relationships." Not sure if she's going to send a copy to Martha, but we'll see.
Heidi Fleiss joins me now from Los Angeles.
Heidi, thanks very much for being with us.
HEIDI FLEISS, FORMER HOLLYWOOD MADAM: It's my pleasure.
COOPER: You know, there's this report out that some publishers would be interested in Martha Stewart writing a prison memoir. And, you know, some were talking about as much as $5 million for something like this. I mean, do you think, do you think that's a good idea? I mean, when you're in prison, is it, is it smart to be writing about the experience?
FLEISS: Well, I wrote -- I will publish my memoir, and I wrote it in code, and I would send a letter home every few days, and because the officers read all your mail, and I don't know how she's -- the way she described it is a different experience than I had at the camp, but I think that's great that she's having some, you know, such a good time there.
COOPER: I know you looked into this prison when you were being sentenced. You were, I, I mean, this is, I guess, is, is the best prison you can be sent to as a, as a woman.
FLEISS: Well, actually, in prison, I learned how to play bridge, and one of the bridge players was once at Alderson and said Alderson was the best camp. But, you know, you (UNINTELLIGIBLE), they, the prison community, everyone's been some, everywhere, so you hear where's the best treatment, where isn't. And I...
COOPER: What's the biggest adjustment? I mean, when you, when you step, you know, you hear that gate clanging behind you, I imagine it takes some time to sort of get your mind wrapped around the whole thing.
FLEISS: I'll tell you, I don't like those strip searches at all. The strip searches, I do not like. And my first night there, for instance. I was in the, you know, the barracks, where there's 150 women sleeping. You have to hear them snoring, coughing, rapping, it's just awful.
And the girl next to me takes off her shirt, and it's all this white supremacy tattooed all over her, and then the other woman on the other side of me was eating cereal. She looked like Jabba the Hutt with her hands out of a box, and she kept on making these hacking noises. And I was just horrified.
It was, for me, it was a nightmare, and I even said to the lady, The medical attention here is free. Maybe you should see the doctor for the hacking. And then she wanted to kill me.
COOPER: Yes, I don't think that's probably went over all that well. What's the relationship like with guards? I mean, it's an odd sort of dynamic, I imagine.
FLEISS: Oh, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), of course, for instance, there are several guards, both male and female, walked off the prison compound when I was there. And, look, sure, there are things that go on that are inappropriate. And the guards are like inmates. That's their life. They spend their life there watching the inmates. They go, and then at home, the guards goes to the same bars. They're just like the inmates.
COOPER: You were, I mean, you were well known when you went to prison. Perhaps, you know, obviously well known in a different way than Martha Stewart is. Did the level of fame help or hurt the way you were treated inside by fellow inmates? FLEISS: Oh, there were no pluses for Heidi Fleiss, because I go in with the pimp label. And people, someone wants to hit me to be in "The National Enquirer" or prove something to me. And there was no pluses for Heidi Fleiss in prison at all. But in on the other side, the prison does not want something to happen to me, or Martha Stewart, so they are careful with your safety.
COOPER: Well, apparently she says it's going OK and that the people are treating her well, so that's certainly some good news (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
FLEISS: Well, I don't know what kind of, you know, where she's working, but they had me on kitchen duty from working 4:00 a.m. to 12 noon, and I'd scrub pots and pans bigger than me.
COOPER: All right. Well, hey, Heidi Fleiss, thank you very much for joining us today. I appreciate your perspective on this. Thanks.
FLEISS: Thank you.
COOPER: And we'll look for your prison memoirs.
360 next, "The O'Reilly Factor," sexual harassment, an extortion countersuit. We're going to talk to the woman at the center of it all and hear from both sides of the legal debate. Covering all the angles tonight.
Also ahead, the last presidential debate, and a media frenzy over Mary Cheney's daughter, or Mary Cheney over Dick Cheney's daughter. That is overkill.
And "Sex in the City" meets "Twin Peaks." "Desperate Housewives" picks up a cult following out of the gate. The new show on ABC is in the weekender, all ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, tonight the woman suing cable star Bill O'Reilly for sexual harassment is here to tell her side of the story. Fox News associate producer Andrea Mackris, who briefly worked at CNN as a producer, accuses O'Reilly of making a series of sexually explicit phone calls to her.
Before that lawsuit was filed, O'Reilly countersued, claiming Mackris and her attorneys were trying to extort $60 million from him and from Fox News.
Joining me now is Andrea Mackris and her attorney, Benedict Morelli.
Thanks very much for both of you being with us.
BENEDICT MORELLI, ATTORNEY FOR MACKRIS: How are you?
COOPER: Andrea, I know you arrived actually upset. You were just served with papers a short time ago. What happened? ANDREA MACKRIS, SUING BILL O'REILLY: I was just walking into my apartment to get dressed for this appearance, and a man was hiding inside my building. I don't have a doorman, I have two double doors that are supposed to be locked. So the guy somehow lied to get in my building, because there's no other reason, how could he get in the building? Hid behind stairwell. I live on the second floor. When I got up to my door, he said, Oh, you're her.
Physically hit me in the chest with papers and said, You've been served. I let them fall to the ground, and I said, No, I don't accept this. You're supposed to be filing this with my attorney, and you know that.
I went into my apartment. He was using my buzzer and knocking on the door saying, Ma'am, ma'am, these papers are on the floor.
When I came out, he wasn't there. He was outside, followed me to the limo and hit me again, physically, in the chest with the papers and said, You've been served, and took my photo. I let them fall to the ground.
COOPER: Were you, are you surprised this?
MORELLI: I'm not surprised by it. I'm surprised that they're being so aggressive about it. We have told them that we will accept service on behalf of Andrea.
COOPER: That any papers should be served to you.
MORELLI: And it's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. The same papers that they served on her tonight I assume are the papers that they served on me this afternoon.
COOPER: So what's the purpose of trying to serve her directly.
MORELLI: Because we're both litigants. So, really, legally they have to serve both of us. They could have served my office because I would have accepted service for her and I told them that. I had one of my associates tell them that.
COOPER: Andrea, are you intimidated? You're making very serious charges against a very powerful person and a very powerful company.
MACKRIS: I'm not intimidated. I mean, they are trying to intimidate me and everything that has happened me since I came forward bears out my logic in being afraid to come forward and knowing -- and being threatened by them and knowing that they would do this.
COOPER: Are you trying to extort money from Bill O'Reilly, from Fox News? That's what they say. You are now a litigant in this. You're not an attorney anymore.
MORELLI: Are you asking me when I stopped beating my wife? Am I trying to extort money? I represent Andrea Mackris. OK? When she came to me and I spoke to her at length and I realized that she was a very legitimate person with a very legitimate claim. We served a letter on four executives at telling them that I represent an employee of yours who's been sexually harassed by one of your personalities who work for you. I will not name the employee.
COOPER: And then you entered a series of negotiations with them.
MORELLI: For two plus weeks.
COOPER: Did you name a $60 million figure.
MORELLI: I told them and first of all you have to understand that they asked me during the time that we were sitting down that we have confidential negotiations, that every single thing we speak about in my office by the way over a two-plus week period be confidential and never spoken about. As soon as they served us with a lawsuit, OK, they started blabbing about what was talked about. We spoke about a lot of figures.
COOPER: Did you bring up 60 million or did they?
MORELLI: I said to them when they said to me this is how much, you know, O'Reilly brings to the company. And I said to them, "Businessweek" reports that he makes $60 million a year for your company. That was the conversation.
COOPER: So you didn't specifically say you wanted 60 million in damages?
MORELLI: That's what I said.
COOPER: Andrea, let's talk a little bit about what you say happened.
I've read the complaint and it's extraordinarily detailed. I know you wouldn't answer, I'm assuming there are tape-recorded conversations because the level of detail involved in here...
MORELLI: Let me just say this. We've been asked this question many, many times, Anderson and I don't want to be rude or cut her off, but we have concrete, irrefutable evidence of what happened. I think one of the important things to look at here is what has Mr. O'Reilly said since he brought the lawsuit and then we filed our lawsuit and understand he forced our hand.
COOPER: He hasn't said anything specifically about the details and the allegations. They've talked about extortion and your motives.
MORELLI: And, see, and the interesting thing is that what he did was he spun it around, took it off him, put it on me. A lawyer who's greedy, a person who's trying to hold me up, said to Regis we're all targets because we're famous.
COOPER: He said you want more than the 9/11 victims.
MORELLI: He doesn't know how much the 9/11 victims got because he's wrong in that figure. I happen to know how much they got, but that has absolutely nothing to do with it. He knows nothing about what our conversations were because he wasn't there, number one.
COOPER: Andrea, let's talk about what you say happened to you. You had worked as an associate producer at Fox for Bill O'Reilly before I guess you came to CNN for a short period of time. You decided to go back to Fox. Apparently this had happened while you were at Fox before according to your allegations. Why go back?
MACKRIS: It had not happened to the degree that it happened when I got back. He had tried to talk as it says in the complaint. He tried and tried and tried and I said no, no, no, you're my boss. No.
COOPER: Tried to talk to you on the phone and in person?
MACKRIS: On the phone, in person, yes. At dinners and on the phone. And I said no, no, no, no. When we were discussing me coming back and I said it on the phone and I said it at dinner. I will, but it will not happen and we will not have the saucy talk anymore and he said right, right I'd be your employer. That would never happen. Of course not.
So I took that he's, you know, I took that as a promise. I took that as a boundary that was explicit, not implicit and he immediately within three and a half weeks bulldozed that boundary. He didn't just overstep it and he continued that. He did it the night before he spoke to the first lady. He did it a night during the Republican convention and he did it the night before he spoke to President Bush.
COOPER: Each time you're saying on the telephone him calling you up?
MACKRIS: Correct.
COOPER: Did you -- were these prearranged phone calls?
MACKRIS: No.
MORELLI: I think that we have to talk a little bit more generally about this because, you understand we're in a lawsuit, OK. We've done a few interviews before yours, OK? We agreed to come on because we think your show is fair and I respect you and your show and CNN. I don't know if you read but in the complaint against us...
COOPER: Yes, I read it. Several times, actually.
MORELLI: One of the things we're doing is conspiring with CNN so CNN's ratings could go up...
COOPER: Well, they're also saying that you are a supporter of John Kerry, a supporter of John Edwards, supporter of the Democratic party, even if the case goes away this is an attempt to soil the reputation of Bill O'Reilly and Fox News.
MORELLI: I think that if we examine this it's silly because if I wanted to do that why didn't I just file the lawsuit immediately and not send any letters?
COOPER: Wouldn't you have been happy to settle?
MORELLI: We tried to resolve it.
MACKRIS: Our intention was never to go public.
MORELLI: Our intention was to resolve it.
Everyone has been asking us ad nauseum, even you asked us already, where's the evidence, do you have tapes, do you have this...
COOPER: I actually said I wouldn't ask you because I knew you wouldn't answer. I'm just assuming.
MORELLI: Everyone's assuming everything and that's fine, but, you see, we have tried over and over again. I don't meet with lawyers from Fox for two-plus weeks up until 7:30 at night we were speaking the night before they sued us.
COOPER: We've been trying to get, obviously, we'd like Mr. O'Reilly to come on and he's been unwilling to say anything as you can probably imagine. What they've said in their suit, basically saying claiming extortion is that you didn't suffer any -- and that you're not even claiming that you suffered any actual harm in terms of your job or punishment in your job from this. Is that true?
MORELLI: Let me just answer that because that's not a question to her. It's a legal question. OK?
COOPER: Well, it's a question of do you feel that you suffered at the hands of Bill O'Reilly.
MORELLI: Well, Obviously she feels that she suffered that's why she came forth. You should see this woman sometimes during the day crying and so upset. OK. She lost her career something that she's worked for. You know not everyone in the world tries to get a few bucks so they can sit home and file their nails. People like to be productive and when you go to get a master's degree at Columbia, generally it's because you want to do something with your life.
COOPER: Did you try -- did you talk to HR people at Fox? They say...
MACKRIS: Can I say this?
MORELLI: Wait a second. You know that she didn't talk to HR people because that's been said. OK. We gave them notice of the sexual harassment by serving four letters on executives at Fox before we brought a lawsuit. So when they say that they got notice through our lawsuit that's not true. We gave them notice in the letter. They came the next day and met with me for about two hours. We discussed everything in detail and this is important, Anderson, because we have to clear this up. After that they said to me can we have time to do an internal investigation first of your client. I said yes. They said you won't file any papers. I said I won't. You have my word and I didn't. They did an internal investigation. They came back and they said she's solid. OK. They then said will you give us time now to speak to Mr. O'Reilly? You understand we have to finish our investigation...
COOPER: So you think they were playing for time.
MORELLI: No, I don't think they were playing for time. I think they were doing this. OK. So now they did this investigation and they came back and talked to us and started negotiating a settlement, OK. Now at one point after two weeks at 7:30 at night and I want you to know they left my office at around 5:00 the night before they served us with papers and said we'll call you back by 6:30. We have to have a meeting. We want this settled tonight. Signed, sealed and delivered. OK? And they never called and the next morning they sued us.
COOPER: Are you scared, Andrea?
MACKRIS: I think the logic -- my logic in not going to HR and not going internally to Fox has been borne out in the way they've treated me. And it's clear, especially even tonight on the way over here for this interview, that I am not -- I don't have the bullet pulpit he has. I don't have a TV show that's national. I don't have a national radio program. I am just me. I don't even have a doorman and they're at my door trying to intimidate me. It is frightening. They are threatening me. They are trying to intimidate me. Yes, I'm rattled, but I'm really strong.
COOPER: We're going to leave it there. Andrea Mackris, Benedict Morelli, appreciate you joining us tonight.
Against, we should point out we tried to get Mr. O'Reilly to come on tonight or any other night we have not heard back. Obviously, they have declined our request. Thanks very much, again, joining us.
Needless to say, Mr. O'Reilly sees things a bit differently. Take a look at his last comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O'REILLY: It's kind of an interesting day for me, as I've now become a gossip guy after 30 years of a clean record. I knew once we filed the extortion lawsuit yesterday this would happen. The press would go wild printing embarrassing allegations, but I didn't have any choice. We have to let the justice system deal with this.
Now, the lawyers have asked me not to talk about this stuff any further. I was on Regis this morning, and that's pretty much going to be it, because I have to respect the lawyers' requests. And finally, thousands of you have written me great letters. And your kindness is really appreciated. I hope you know that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, we've heard from O'Reilly and his accuser, now let's get a legal expert to weigh in. Joining us now are Court TV anchor Lisa Bloom. And from Mountainview, California, attorney Bob Kohn, author of the book "Journalistic Fraud." Appreciate both of you joining us. Lisa, you just heard this discussion. Any thoughts?
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV: He just seems like dozens of sexual harassment plaintiffs that represented in my practice, Anderson. And for everyone who says that this is a jolly good time for her, that she's just out for blood and out for money, you see the human face behind this case.
I want to point out that Bill O'Reilly has not denied any of her allegations, but what he has done very effectively, is used the medium that he knows so well, the media, and turned it into it's all about extortion. All of her allegations that he specifically asked her for sexual activity, that he mixed it in with talk of work over and over again, that he was using a vibrator while talking to her on the phone. All of that has gotten lost very effectively by Fox News' spin.
COOPER: Bob, you've heard this talk from Andrea tonight and her attorney. What do you make of it?
BOB KOHN, ATTORNEY: You just did an interview with 2 very worried people who have been completely outmaneuvered. This case is about whether the sexual talk that he did with this woman was unwelcome, OK? And she has proven, not only in her lawsuit that during the 4 years she worked with him that this was welcome, OK, because she never said to him...
COOPER: How are you saying it's welcome?
KOHN: Because in the complaint, in her lawsuit, it specifically says she may have been flustered, but there's no allegation that she told him that she was concerned.
BLOOM: Well, that's just not true.
The complaint is repeat with Andrea Mackris saying she didn't want her him talking to her like that.
KOHN: Don't interrupt me! Let me just finish off this. This is really important here! Now, when she came back to work for him, all right, that's another sign that it was welcome. And the first thing she starts doing, is being a Linda Tripp. She starts tape recording the conversations.
BLOOM: Thank God she did, because no one would believe her.
KOHN: Those tape recordings are going to be evidence that they were welcome. And finally, yesterday the reason why that she's starting to make mistakes. On the Today Show she said he pushed the boundaries, that is Bill O'Reilly, she said, pushed the boundaries further from what I had already established. In other words, she established boundaries for dirty talk with him.
BLOOM: She established boundaries that she didn't want him talk that way.
COOPER: Bob, let Lisa respond right now. KOHN: It's all over! Slam dunk.
BLOOM: Bob, the complaint was replete with allegation that she didn't want it. And if you mean to tell me, you think her idea of a good time is Bill O'Reilly talking about a falafel and a loofa in a shower, I don't think you understand women too well.
KOHN: That's what she said.
BLOOM: She alleged that she didn't like it. That she didn't want him doing it. And you know what?
KOHN: Later, later on she says that.
BLOOM: Bob...
KOHN: She doesn't say that early.
BLOOM: A woman has a right to have a decent job. The best job that she has ever had. She has a right to go back to it and keep it and not be sexually harassed. She doesn't have to choose between her job and her decency.
KOHN: And she has a right to talk dirty with her boss. And she accepted that for 4 years.
BLOOM: You know, even Bill O'Reilly doesn't claim that she talked dirty.
KOHN: These were welcome. You can say anything you want to somebody at work, wherever it is, if it's welcome, it's not sexual harassment.
BLOOM: That's true. But Fox News has not alleged that anywhere in their detailed arguments. They never denied the...
KOHN: They don't have to. They haven't even responded to the complaint yet.
(CROSSTALK)
KOHN: There's a reason why they filed this lawsuit for extortion, that's to get this attorney disqualified for extortion.
BLOOM: This is not the first time Fox News has run to court first. And it may not be the first time their case is thrown out immediately.
KOHN: This is a different case. You can't go talking about another case.
BLOOM: We're going to have to leave it there. Bob Kohn, Lisa Bloom. appreciate both your perspectives.
Today's "Buzz" is this, what do you think? "Have the media treated Bill O'Reilly fairly?" Log on to cnn.com/360, cast your vote. We'll have results at the end of program.
And next on 360, the mess about Mary: How war of words over a comment about the Cheneys' daughter overshadows everything, simply "Overkill" this week.
And a little later, a much lighter note, getting desperate in the "Weekender?" ABC's new hit. What's all of the buzz about? We'll tell you ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, there's something about Mary, all right. John Kerry mentioned Mary Cheney's sexual orientation during the last debate. And the issue has knocked everything else out of the headlines it seems. What did the president say about education? What is Senator Kerry's position on Social Security? Who knows? They're all talking about Mary to the point of "Overkill."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: If you watched the news on TV yesterday, it almost felt like the third presidential debate was all about.
O'REILLY: Mary Cheney.
COOPER: Mary Cheney.
CHARLEY GIBSON, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: Vice President Cheney's daughter Mary who is openly gay.
COOPER: Mary Cheney became the political talking point of the day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did John Kerry cross the line when he talked about Mary Cheney's sexuality in the last debate?
COOPER: Entire segments were dedicated to nothing else?
O'REILLY: Everybody knows Mary Cheney is gay. I mean, anybody who pays attention.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
COOPER: The topic was debated.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Why was it inappropriate in your person, if you believe it was inappropriate, for John Kerry to mention the fact that Vice President and Lynne Cheney have a gay daughter.
COOPER: All day long, Republicans on TV say they were offended.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't understand what they're doing, but it's the most despicable, cheap political shot I've ever seen.
COOPER: And Democrats got defensive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a distraction. There are so many more important issues we ought to be talking about.
COOPER: Shows replay John Kerry's comment over and over.
KERRY: I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian...
COOPER: And replayed Lynne Cheney's reaction.
O'REILLY: Well, shortly after that, Lynne Cheney said this.
LYNNE CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT RICHARD CHENEY'S WIFE: The only thing I could conclude is this is not a good man.
COOPER: And there were the banners, more or less creative, even on this show.
So why is this overkill? Well, because yesterday the name of Dick Cheney's daughter was uttered 295 times on local, cable and network television. And all but forgotten, it seems, were the other issues addressed in the final debate -- education, health care, jobs and tax cuts. And that's why Mary Cheney is this week's "Overkill."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, I'd like to cover a whole -- a lot of different kinds of stories. I don't know, my grammar's all gone to -- out the window. Who knew being desperate could be so good? Coming up next on 360, after years of gloomy ratings, ABC has a bona fide hit on its hands, a much lighter story in "The Weekender." A look at some sweet desperation ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Our blooper reel is complete.
Fans of "Sex and the City" don't have to feel alone and hopeless on Sunday nights anymore. There is a new show that has given them what they've been waiting more -- almost. After one ratings- challenged network being forlorn, it's making a lot of people awfully happy. Let's take a look in "The Weekender."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Welcome to Wisteria (ph) Lane.
COOPER (voice-over): ABC is desperate no more. "Desperate Housewives," the most watched new show, is shaking up the neighborhood and an industry. The "Sex and the City" for the suburbs has paid off big for the network.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It doesn't mean anything. It was just sex.
COOPER: Since its debut, "Desperate Housewives" has been watched by an average of 20 million Americans. Those numbers have helped catapult ABC to victory on Sunday nights, and it's risky, steamy stuff like this that's helping the network pay off big. So what's the secret? For starters, "Housewives" is a dark comedy that chronicles the lives and desires of five svelte women. Each comes with enough sex, sizzle, mystery and angst to keep people glued to the sets. When it comes to lust, they play dirt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't believe you tried to kill me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, well, I feel badly about that.
COOPER: And desperation isn't the only key to ABC's sudden success.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the hell's that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something's coming.
COOPER: Being lost also helps. The drama about plane crash survivors stranded on an island is a big ratings winner.
So, too, are "Wife Swap."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's the vacuum cleaner, which I don't know how to use.
COOPER: "Boston Legal."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You two have had sex.
COOPER: And "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see horses and monkeys.
COOPER: With ABC back on the map, some analysts say NBC and CBS may be in ratings danger. Maybe it's only a matter of time before they also start getting a bit desperate, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think you could stop by later tonight and take a look at my pipes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Women don't fight fair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Goodness! Well, 360 next, United States is the world's most powerful democracy, so you'd think we'd know how to vote by now. But with all the new gadgets, we could be setting ourselves up for some trouble. We're going to fix the voting process to "The Nth Degree," next.
And today's "Buzz," have the media treated Bill O'Reilly fairly? What do you think? Log on to cnn.com/360. Cast your vote. Results when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Time now for "The Buzz." Earlier we asked you, have the media treated Bill O'Reilly fairly? Ninety-one percent of you said yes; 9 percent said no. Not a scientific poll, but it is "The Buzz." We appreciate you voting.
Tonight, taking the ballot box to "The Nth Degree."
It's time, we think, to take up the subject of tabulating the vote. That's what the election will come down to, after all, and we had a spot of trouble in the counting area last time around, as you may remember.
Lots of new systems and machines are supposed to be used this November, but they all have their detractors. So here are a couple of proposals.
The government could go out to Toys "R" Us to stock up on some of those great shape-sorting toys that toddlers like so much. Hey, they'd be dandy ballot boxes, based on the wonderful old, rock solid, you can't put a round peg in a square hole principle. Just have John Kerry's face on one shape and George Bush's in another, and there you are. A ballot box even a baby could use.
Or maybe even lower tech is the way to go. Cardboard boxes were good enough for the Afghans, after all. There's an awful lot to be said for their extreme simplicity. No hanging chads here, just a piece of paper and a slot.
Red and blue ping-pong balls, garbanzo and fava beans, you'd think the Earth's only superpower could come up with something fool- proof.
I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for watching. Have a great weekend. Coming up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 15, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from New York. I'm Anderson Cooper.
John Kerry gains ground in two swing states, but is it enough to give him the edge?
360 starts now.
John Kerry sits down for an exclusive one-on-one with CNN. Find out his strategy heading into the home stretch.
The president hits the heartland, hoping to recapture the Big Mo, but is he giving up on certain states?
An American platoon in Iraq accused of refusing a mission. Tonight, the military has them confined. We'll have details.
Bill O'Reilly on the ropes, accused of sexual harassment. He says it's extortion. Tonight we go 360 with the woman who's made the charges and hear her side of the story.
Martha Stewart speaks out. What she thinks of the prison and her guards.
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
COOPER: Good evening again.
Two Fridays more, three days after that, and there we are, the second of November. Push is rapidly coming to shove. If it's electoral votes you're counting, a new CNN survey finds John Kerry gaining ground in the swing states of Ohio and New Hampshire, with the president clinging to a narrow lead overall, 277 electoral votes to Senator Kerry's 261, with 270 guaranteeing election.
Still, if a state as small as Iowa goes from Bush to Kerry, the candidates will be tied at 269 electoral votes each, and the election would have to be decided by the House of Representatives.
CNN's senior political correspondent Candy Crowley sat down with Senator Kerry for an exclusive one-on-one today, and White House correspondent Dana Bash has been following the president's footsteps. We're going to hear from Dana shortly.
First, Candy Crowley. Candy?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the view from inside the Kerry campaign is looking good. His trend line, they say, is going up, and they are so excited about their get-out- the-vote effort, they say they can't talk about it, but it's unprecedented.
So what now? First, no mistakes. Second, no distractions, which is why John Kerry would very much like to stop talking about Mary Cheney.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): He seemed relaxed and confident and misunderstood.
(on camera): Do you understand why the Cheneys are upset, that this feels like an invasion of their privacy?
SEN. JOHN KERRY, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: They have talked about it themselves publicly.
CROWLEY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), but it's their daughter.
KERRY: I think the point I was trying to make -- I've said, really, Candy, I've said everything that needs to be said yesterday about it. It was meant entirely constructively.
CROWLEY: In what way? How was it constructive?
KERRY: It's respectful of who she is, and they've embraced her, and they love her.
CROWLEY (voice-over): Campaigning through Milwaukee, John Kerry sat down with an interview with CNN, trying to put Mary Cheney behind him and brush Ralph Nader aside.
KERRY: If people want a change, and they want responsibility for the middle class in America, don't throw away your vote. There's only one choice here. Either George Bush is going to be president, or John Kerry, and that's the vote.
CROWLEY (on camera): Nader is on the ballot in 30 states, including nine battlegrounds, where he could make a difference.
(on camera): Are you worried?
KERRY: I'm confident the American people are going to look at this race as the most important election of our lifetime.
CROWLEY (voice-over): Kerry has it down pat now, the words and thoughts perfected over a two-year campaign and three thought-focusing debates. Asked to name a mistake he's made over the past three years, he said he's sorry the deficit got so bad, that there won't be enough money to do all the things he originally proposed.
(on camera): You never once said to yourself, I wish I hadn't voted for the war resolution?
KERRY: No, I -- because, you see, what we did, we gave the president the authority to load the gun, to pull the trigger, so to speak. We didn't tell him to shoot himself in the foot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: On the economy, when I asked the senator what a unemployed worker from Wisconsin, which was where he was this morning, could expect in a Kerry administration in, say, February or March or April, he said, We could make some changes fairly quickly if Congress goes along. Anderson, I can tell you, having covered Capitol Hill, that's always the rub.
COOPER: Candy Crowley, thanks for that. More of that interview playing on "PAULA ZAHN" at 8:00.
With the polls showing the race tighter than ever, President Bush is pulling out some of the buzzwords from races past. Today, for example, use of the L-word, not lesbian, that's another story. Liberal is the word we're now hearing a lot of.
CNN White House correspondent Dana Bash tells us why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the post-debate world of sifting through what worked and what did not, the president's team put attacking John Kerry's health plan in the it worked column. So he's stepped it up in Cedar Rapids.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Studies conducted by people who understand small businesses concluded that his plan is an overpriced albatross. I have a different view. We'll work to make sure health care is available and affordable.
KERRY: God bless you all!
BASH: Bush aides know Kerry's constant reminders that millions lost health insurance or saw premiums skyrocket on the president's watch resonates with voters, but they say internal research shows labeling Kerry's health plan too costly strikes a nerve with swing voters.
BUSH: My opponent takes the side of more centralized control and more government. There's a word for that attitude. It's called liberalism.
BASH: Plus, attacking the senator's plan, as one top aide said, is the perfect way to put some meat on the John Kerry is a liberal bone, a bone the president is throwing to his GOP base these final days to make sure they vote.
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: Let's face it, what the Bush campaign is trying to do right now is to get as many voters up and out of their chairs and out of their offices into the polls on election day as they can.
BASH: Two thousand election results in Iowa and Wisconsin, the two states on this leg of the final sprint, show how critical that is. The president lost both by the narrowest of margins. The difference in Iowa, 3/10 of 1 percent, a mere 4,1144 votes. In Wisconsin, 2/10 of 1 percent, just 5,708 votes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Right now, it's a dead heat still in Iowa, but polls here in Wisconsin show the president has lost some ground to John Kerry since the debates. So the question now is whether or not the president's campaign continues to invest Mr. Bush's time and energy that he has been investing in traditionally Democratic states like Wisconsin, or whether or not it's still worth it, Anderson.
COOPER: Dana Bash, thanks for that.
President Bush's top political aide, Karl Rove, testified today before a grand jury looking into the leaking of a name of a CIA officer. The leak of the -- of officer Valerie Plame's name came as apparent retaliation for her husband writing an article questioning President Bush's reasons for going to war in Iraq.
Now, while the investigation into that leak continues, there are some concern that other leaks are becoming an even bigger problem for the White House.
Here's national security correspondent David Ensor.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While President Bush campaigns around the country, he leaves a U.S. intelligence community back in Washington where many are frustrated, even angry.
REVEL GERECHT, FORMER CIA OFFICER: They are in pain, and I imagine they will remain in pain as long as there is serious discussion on Capitol Hill and the White House about reorganizing the institution.
ENSOR: They are also upset by all the charges of intelligence failures. But the frustration may cut both ways. For over a month now, President Bush has had to dodge intelligence curveballs.
KENNETH POLLACK, FORMER CIA ANALYST: In the midst of a very tight presidential election, I think the Bush administration is probably very unhappy with the leaks that are coming out of the intelligence community.
ENSOR: First, the leak of a CIA estimate about Iraq, with three scenarios for the future, all of them gloomy. Next, word of a prewar CIA warning to the president that Ba'athists, terrorists, and nationalists would join forces against the Americans, which is exactly what they've done. DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This report is one I asked for.
ENSOR: The next leak put Vice President Cheney on the defensive, about a CIA report that he'd requested, warning that there was no proof Saddam knowingly harbored the terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi before the war, despite Cheney's longtime public assertions to the contrary.
After the first leak, the president reacted with irritation.
BUSH: They were just guessing as to what the conditions might be like.
POLLACK: Exactly the kind of remark that has rankled many people inside the intelligence community.
ENSOR: One former senior CIA official says the atmosphere between Langley and the White House is, quote, "about as poisoned as I've seen it."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: A knowledgeable senior official says he doesn't believe for a moment that CIA personnel systematically leak stuff to embarrass presidents. He says the leaks are likely coming from Congress or elsewhere in the executive branch. But the White House is left to wonder whether any more bad news will leak out before election day, Anderson.
COOPER: David Ensor in Washington. Thanks, David.
The cold of winter looms ahead, and the price of oil is hotter than ever. That story tops our look at news cross-country right now.
In New York, oil smashes a record yet again. The price of crude on the New York Mercantile Exchange actually hit $55 a barrel for a little while today before falling back, closing at $54.93.
Washington, D.C., pediatric warning labels on antidepressants. The FDA rules those medications must now carry a black-box warning, the strongest alert available, that children and adolescents face an increased risk of suicidal thoughts when the drugs are prescribed. The agency says antidepressants are beneficial to young patients, so the risk has got to be balanced with need.
Cheyenne, Wyoming, now, snowmobilers, start your engines. A federal judge has thrown out a ban on snowmobiles in Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks. He called the rule prejudiced and a political -- politically sneaky way to try and ban snowmobiles from all national parks.
Buffalo, New York, now, jailhouse admission from John Lennon's killer. Mark David Chapman says he wanted to steal Lennon's fame when he fired the deadly shot in 1980, that he always felt like a big nobody. Chapman said this to a parole board this month. Parole denied, and he's still a big nobody.
That's a look at stories cross-country tonight.
360 next, under investigation, U.S. troops in trouble for refusing to go on a mission they say was too dangerous because of bad equipment. We'll have their story.
Plus, Martha Stewart speaks from prison. Her first letter out, and a book in the making. Former inmate and Hollywood madam Heidi Fleiss joins us live to talk about that.
And "The O'Reilly Factor," dueling lawsuits over extortion and sexual harassment. We'll talk to the woman at the center of it all and hear her side.
First, let's take a look, your picks, the most popular stories right now on CNN.com.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, of all of the jobs military personnel do in Iraq, it's hard to think of anything less glamorous and more dangerous than driving a fuel truck in hostile territory. Tonight, there are reports that some soldiers there found that job too dangerous and may have refused to follow their orders.
The story now from Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is one of the most dangerous missions in Iraq, driving a convoy. This past Wednesday in Tallil, southeast of Baghdad, 19 soldiers from a supply platoon failed to report for a mission to drive a fuel truck north to Taji.
It is now believed five of the soldiers may actually have refused their orders.
The Army is emphasizing this is an isolated incident, saying, "It is far too early in the investigation to speculate as to what happened, why it happened, or any action that might be taken."
Patricia Ann McCook says the troops were worried about safety, including her husband, Sergeant Larry McCook.
PATRICIA ANN MCCOOK, WIFE OF SGT. LARRY MCCOOK: They don't have bulletproof protection on the vehicles. They just don't go fast at all. It's just not safe to be in a hostile territory.
STARR: Three probes are under way into the actions of the soldiers from the 343rd Quartermaster Company, a reserve unit from South Carolina. Investigators are talking to all of those involved, trying to find out what happened and why.
Another inquiry is determining whether there were violations of the uniform code of military justice. And the commanding officer has ordered a safety-maintenance stand-down, during which all vehicles will be inspected and retraining will be done.
According to a military source, some of the soldiers raised valid concerns, an indication there may have been safety problems with the equipment. But the source said the concerns were raised in an inappropriate manner, causing a breakdown in discipline.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: Now, Anderson, that convoy eventually was driven, but by another group of soldiers. Clearly, these soldiers were very upset about something. We've obtained a tape recording that one of the soldiers left this message on her mother's answering machine.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Mom, this is Amber. This is a real, real big emergency. I need you to contact someone. I mean, raise pure hell. We -- yesterday we refused to go to on a convoy to Taji, which is above Baghdad. We had...
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: So one of the soldiers leaving a message for her mother expressing her distress, one of the soldiers apparently involved in this incident. But the Army is emphasizing it's an isolated incident. So far, none of the soldiers under arrest. The investigation continues, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, we'll be watching. Barbara Starr, thanks.
Heavy fighting marks the beginning of Ramadan in Iraq, and that tops our look at what's happening around the world in the uplink.
U.S.-led forces launched more attacks today against insurgents in Fallujah, coinciding with the start of the Muslim holy month. Military officials say the mission lays the groundwork for a future offensive to retake the city. In recent weeks, there's been almost daily strikes against locations believed to be used by the Abu Musab al-Zarqawi terror network. They have intensified in the past two days.
In the Darfur region of Sudan, 70,000 people dead. That is the estimate from the U.N. now, which says hundreds of people are still dying in the wartorn region every day, despite efforts to get aid to refugees. Some 1.5 million people fled their homes to escape violence there. The U.N. calls it the world's worst humanitarian crisis going on.
Beijing, China, now, seeking asylum. Take a look, 20 people claiming to be North Koreans scaled walls, crawled under barbed wire to reach the South Korean consulate. China has recently experienced a flood of North Koreans seeking asylum. Many who have reached the embassies have been allowed to go to South Korea, desperate for some sort of freedom.
London, England, now, no death for Dinah, or Dino, I guess it is. A judge has granted clemency to a German shepherd that was sentenced to death for biting a woman's hand. Dino's owner spent thousands of dollars to spare his life, and the case went as far as the European Court of Human Rights. Today, he's one lucky dog.
That is a quick look at the uplink tonight.
360 next, Martha Stewart speaking out from prison. Her first letter to the outside world. Find out how she's being treated behind bars.
Plus, former inmate Heidi Fleiss joining us live. She shares her insights on the prison experience. That in a moment.
Also tonight, the woman who's taking on Bill O'Reilly. She joins us live. Plus, we'll hear from both sides of the legal debate on whether she has a case or not.
And a little later, the last presidential debate, it was 90 minutes long, and polls say President Bush got beat for a third time. So why is the media obsessed with the one-liner on Mary Cheney? That is this week's overkill.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: For Martha Stewart, going to prison is a lot like heading back to school, really. On her Web site, yes, even inmate go into cyberspace, the domestic diva has this to say about her prison.
Quote, "The camp is fine. It's pretty much what I anticipated. The best news, everyone is nice, both the officials and my fellow inmates. I've adjusted and am very busy. The camp is like an old- fashioned college campus, without the freedom, of course."
My next guest also gave prison that old college try. Heidi Fleiss served three years for charges related to her star-studded call girl ring. And while Stewart contemplates a memoir, the former Hollywood madam has a new book out for women called "The Player's Handbook: The Ultimate Guide on Dating and Relationships." Not sure if she's going to send a copy to Martha, but we'll see.
Heidi Fleiss joins me now from Los Angeles.
Heidi, thanks very much for being with us.
HEIDI FLEISS, FORMER HOLLYWOOD MADAM: It's my pleasure.
COOPER: You know, there's this report out that some publishers would be interested in Martha Stewart writing a prison memoir. And, you know, some were talking about as much as $5 million for something like this. I mean, do you think, do you think that's a good idea? I mean, when you're in prison, is it, is it smart to be writing about the experience?
FLEISS: Well, I wrote -- I will publish my memoir, and I wrote it in code, and I would send a letter home every few days, and because the officers read all your mail, and I don't know how she's -- the way she described it is a different experience than I had at the camp, but I think that's great that she's having some, you know, such a good time there.
COOPER: I know you looked into this prison when you were being sentenced. You were, I, I mean, this is, I guess, is, is the best prison you can be sent to as a, as a woman.
FLEISS: Well, actually, in prison, I learned how to play bridge, and one of the bridge players was once at Alderson and said Alderson was the best camp. But, you know, you (UNINTELLIGIBLE), they, the prison community, everyone's been some, everywhere, so you hear where's the best treatment, where isn't. And I...
COOPER: What's the biggest adjustment? I mean, when you, when you step, you know, you hear that gate clanging behind you, I imagine it takes some time to sort of get your mind wrapped around the whole thing.
FLEISS: I'll tell you, I don't like those strip searches at all. The strip searches, I do not like. And my first night there, for instance. I was in the, you know, the barracks, where there's 150 women sleeping. You have to hear them snoring, coughing, rapping, it's just awful.
And the girl next to me takes off her shirt, and it's all this white supremacy tattooed all over her, and then the other woman on the other side of me was eating cereal. She looked like Jabba the Hutt with her hands out of a box, and she kept on making these hacking noises. And I was just horrified.
It was, for me, it was a nightmare, and I even said to the lady, The medical attention here is free. Maybe you should see the doctor for the hacking. And then she wanted to kill me.
COOPER: Yes, I don't think that's probably went over all that well. What's the relationship like with guards? I mean, it's an odd sort of dynamic, I imagine.
FLEISS: Oh, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), of course, for instance, there are several guards, both male and female, walked off the prison compound when I was there. And, look, sure, there are things that go on that are inappropriate. And the guards are like inmates. That's their life. They spend their life there watching the inmates. They go, and then at home, the guards goes to the same bars. They're just like the inmates.
COOPER: You were, I mean, you were well known when you went to prison. Perhaps, you know, obviously well known in a different way than Martha Stewart is. Did the level of fame help or hurt the way you were treated inside by fellow inmates? FLEISS: Oh, there were no pluses for Heidi Fleiss, because I go in with the pimp label. And people, someone wants to hit me to be in "The National Enquirer" or prove something to me. And there was no pluses for Heidi Fleiss in prison at all. But in on the other side, the prison does not want something to happen to me, or Martha Stewart, so they are careful with your safety.
COOPER: Well, apparently she says it's going OK and that the people are treating her well, so that's certainly some good news (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
FLEISS: Well, I don't know what kind of, you know, where she's working, but they had me on kitchen duty from working 4:00 a.m. to 12 noon, and I'd scrub pots and pans bigger than me.
COOPER: All right. Well, hey, Heidi Fleiss, thank you very much for joining us today. I appreciate your perspective on this. Thanks.
FLEISS: Thank you.
COOPER: And we'll look for your prison memoirs.
360 next, "The O'Reilly Factor," sexual harassment, an extortion countersuit. We're going to talk to the woman at the center of it all and hear from both sides of the legal debate. Covering all the angles tonight.
Also ahead, the last presidential debate, and a media frenzy over Mary Cheney's daughter, or Mary Cheney over Dick Cheney's daughter. That is overkill.
And "Sex in the City" meets "Twin Peaks." "Desperate Housewives" picks up a cult following out of the gate. The new show on ABC is in the weekender, all ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, tonight the woman suing cable star Bill O'Reilly for sexual harassment is here to tell her side of the story. Fox News associate producer Andrea Mackris, who briefly worked at CNN as a producer, accuses O'Reilly of making a series of sexually explicit phone calls to her.
Before that lawsuit was filed, O'Reilly countersued, claiming Mackris and her attorneys were trying to extort $60 million from him and from Fox News.
Joining me now is Andrea Mackris and her attorney, Benedict Morelli.
Thanks very much for both of you being with us.
BENEDICT MORELLI, ATTORNEY FOR MACKRIS: How are you?
COOPER: Andrea, I know you arrived actually upset. You were just served with papers a short time ago. What happened? ANDREA MACKRIS, SUING BILL O'REILLY: I was just walking into my apartment to get dressed for this appearance, and a man was hiding inside my building. I don't have a doorman, I have two double doors that are supposed to be locked. So the guy somehow lied to get in my building, because there's no other reason, how could he get in the building? Hid behind stairwell. I live on the second floor. When I got up to my door, he said, Oh, you're her.
Physically hit me in the chest with papers and said, You've been served. I let them fall to the ground, and I said, No, I don't accept this. You're supposed to be filing this with my attorney, and you know that.
I went into my apartment. He was using my buzzer and knocking on the door saying, Ma'am, ma'am, these papers are on the floor.
When I came out, he wasn't there. He was outside, followed me to the limo and hit me again, physically, in the chest with the papers and said, You've been served, and took my photo. I let them fall to the ground.
COOPER: Were you, are you surprised this?
MORELLI: I'm not surprised by it. I'm surprised that they're being so aggressive about it. We have told them that we will accept service on behalf of Andrea.
COOPER: That any papers should be served to you.
MORELLI: And it's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. The same papers that they served on her tonight I assume are the papers that they served on me this afternoon.
COOPER: So what's the purpose of trying to serve her directly.
MORELLI: Because we're both litigants. So, really, legally they have to serve both of us. They could have served my office because I would have accepted service for her and I told them that. I had one of my associates tell them that.
COOPER: Andrea, are you intimidated? You're making very serious charges against a very powerful person and a very powerful company.
MACKRIS: I'm not intimidated. I mean, they are trying to intimidate me and everything that has happened me since I came forward bears out my logic in being afraid to come forward and knowing -- and being threatened by them and knowing that they would do this.
COOPER: Are you trying to extort money from Bill O'Reilly, from Fox News? That's what they say. You are now a litigant in this. You're not an attorney anymore.
MORELLI: Are you asking me when I stopped beating my wife? Am I trying to extort money? I represent Andrea Mackris. OK? When she came to me and I spoke to her at length and I realized that she was a very legitimate person with a very legitimate claim. We served a letter on four executives at telling them that I represent an employee of yours who's been sexually harassed by one of your personalities who work for you. I will not name the employee.
COOPER: And then you entered a series of negotiations with them.
MORELLI: For two plus weeks.
COOPER: Did you name a $60 million figure.
MORELLI: I told them and first of all you have to understand that they asked me during the time that we were sitting down that we have confidential negotiations, that every single thing we speak about in my office by the way over a two-plus week period be confidential and never spoken about. As soon as they served us with a lawsuit, OK, they started blabbing about what was talked about. We spoke about a lot of figures.
COOPER: Did you bring up 60 million or did they?
MORELLI: I said to them when they said to me this is how much, you know, O'Reilly brings to the company. And I said to them, "Businessweek" reports that he makes $60 million a year for your company. That was the conversation.
COOPER: So you didn't specifically say you wanted 60 million in damages?
MORELLI: That's what I said.
COOPER: Andrea, let's talk a little bit about what you say happened.
I've read the complaint and it's extraordinarily detailed. I know you wouldn't answer, I'm assuming there are tape-recorded conversations because the level of detail involved in here...
MORELLI: Let me just say this. We've been asked this question many, many times, Anderson and I don't want to be rude or cut her off, but we have concrete, irrefutable evidence of what happened. I think one of the important things to look at here is what has Mr. O'Reilly said since he brought the lawsuit and then we filed our lawsuit and understand he forced our hand.
COOPER: He hasn't said anything specifically about the details and the allegations. They've talked about extortion and your motives.
MORELLI: And, see, and the interesting thing is that what he did was he spun it around, took it off him, put it on me. A lawyer who's greedy, a person who's trying to hold me up, said to Regis we're all targets because we're famous.
COOPER: He said you want more than the 9/11 victims.
MORELLI: He doesn't know how much the 9/11 victims got because he's wrong in that figure. I happen to know how much they got, but that has absolutely nothing to do with it. He knows nothing about what our conversations were because he wasn't there, number one.
COOPER: Andrea, let's talk about what you say happened to you. You had worked as an associate producer at Fox for Bill O'Reilly before I guess you came to CNN for a short period of time. You decided to go back to Fox. Apparently this had happened while you were at Fox before according to your allegations. Why go back?
MACKRIS: It had not happened to the degree that it happened when I got back. He had tried to talk as it says in the complaint. He tried and tried and tried and I said no, no, no, you're my boss. No.
COOPER: Tried to talk to you on the phone and in person?
MACKRIS: On the phone, in person, yes. At dinners and on the phone. And I said no, no, no, no. When we were discussing me coming back and I said it on the phone and I said it at dinner. I will, but it will not happen and we will not have the saucy talk anymore and he said right, right I'd be your employer. That would never happen. Of course not.
So I took that he's, you know, I took that as a promise. I took that as a boundary that was explicit, not implicit and he immediately within three and a half weeks bulldozed that boundary. He didn't just overstep it and he continued that. He did it the night before he spoke to the first lady. He did it a night during the Republican convention and he did it the night before he spoke to President Bush.
COOPER: Each time you're saying on the telephone him calling you up?
MACKRIS: Correct.
COOPER: Did you -- were these prearranged phone calls?
MACKRIS: No.
MORELLI: I think that we have to talk a little bit more generally about this because, you understand we're in a lawsuit, OK. We've done a few interviews before yours, OK? We agreed to come on because we think your show is fair and I respect you and your show and CNN. I don't know if you read but in the complaint against us...
COOPER: Yes, I read it. Several times, actually.
MORELLI: One of the things we're doing is conspiring with CNN so CNN's ratings could go up...
COOPER: Well, they're also saying that you are a supporter of John Kerry, a supporter of John Edwards, supporter of the Democratic party, even if the case goes away this is an attempt to soil the reputation of Bill O'Reilly and Fox News.
MORELLI: I think that if we examine this it's silly because if I wanted to do that why didn't I just file the lawsuit immediately and not send any letters?
COOPER: Wouldn't you have been happy to settle?
MORELLI: We tried to resolve it.
MACKRIS: Our intention was never to go public.
MORELLI: Our intention was to resolve it.
Everyone has been asking us ad nauseum, even you asked us already, where's the evidence, do you have tapes, do you have this...
COOPER: I actually said I wouldn't ask you because I knew you wouldn't answer. I'm just assuming.
MORELLI: Everyone's assuming everything and that's fine, but, you see, we have tried over and over again. I don't meet with lawyers from Fox for two-plus weeks up until 7:30 at night we were speaking the night before they sued us.
COOPER: We've been trying to get, obviously, we'd like Mr. O'Reilly to come on and he's been unwilling to say anything as you can probably imagine. What they've said in their suit, basically saying claiming extortion is that you didn't suffer any -- and that you're not even claiming that you suffered any actual harm in terms of your job or punishment in your job from this. Is that true?
MORELLI: Let me just answer that because that's not a question to her. It's a legal question. OK?
COOPER: Well, it's a question of do you feel that you suffered at the hands of Bill O'Reilly.
MORELLI: Well, Obviously she feels that she suffered that's why she came forth. You should see this woman sometimes during the day crying and so upset. OK. She lost her career something that she's worked for. You know not everyone in the world tries to get a few bucks so they can sit home and file their nails. People like to be productive and when you go to get a master's degree at Columbia, generally it's because you want to do something with your life.
COOPER: Did you try -- did you talk to HR people at Fox? They say...
MACKRIS: Can I say this?
MORELLI: Wait a second. You know that she didn't talk to HR people because that's been said. OK. We gave them notice of the sexual harassment by serving four letters on executives at Fox before we brought a lawsuit. So when they say that they got notice through our lawsuit that's not true. We gave them notice in the letter. They came the next day and met with me for about two hours. We discussed everything in detail and this is important, Anderson, because we have to clear this up. After that they said to me can we have time to do an internal investigation first of your client. I said yes. They said you won't file any papers. I said I won't. You have my word and I didn't. They did an internal investigation. They came back and they said she's solid. OK. They then said will you give us time now to speak to Mr. O'Reilly? You understand we have to finish our investigation...
COOPER: So you think they were playing for time.
MORELLI: No, I don't think they were playing for time. I think they were doing this. OK. So now they did this investigation and they came back and talked to us and started negotiating a settlement, OK. Now at one point after two weeks at 7:30 at night and I want you to know they left my office at around 5:00 the night before they served us with papers and said we'll call you back by 6:30. We have to have a meeting. We want this settled tonight. Signed, sealed and delivered. OK? And they never called and the next morning they sued us.
COOPER: Are you scared, Andrea?
MACKRIS: I think the logic -- my logic in not going to HR and not going internally to Fox has been borne out in the way they've treated me. And it's clear, especially even tonight on the way over here for this interview, that I am not -- I don't have the bullet pulpit he has. I don't have a TV show that's national. I don't have a national radio program. I am just me. I don't even have a doorman and they're at my door trying to intimidate me. It is frightening. They are threatening me. They are trying to intimidate me. Yes, I'm rattled, but I'm really strong.
COOPER: We're going to leave it there. Andrea Mackris, Benedict Morelli, appreciate you joining us tonight.
Against, we should point out we tried to get Mr. O'Reilly to come on tonight or any other night we have not heard back. Obviously, they have declined our request. Thanks very much, again, joining us.
Needless to say, Mr. O'Reilly sees things a bit differently. Take a look at his last comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O'REILLY: It's kind of an interesting day for me, as I've now become a gossip guy after 30 years of a clean record. I knew once we filed the extortion lawsuit yesterday this would happen. The press would go wild printing embarrassing allegations, but I didn't have any choice. We have to let the justice system deal with this.
Now, the lawyers have asked me not to talk about this stuff any further. I was on Regis this morning, and that's pretty much going to be it, because I have to respect the lawyers' requests. And finally, thousands of you have written me great letters. And your kindness is really appreciated. I hope you know that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, we've heard from O'Reilly and his accuser, now let's get a legal expert to weigh in. Joining us now are Court TV anchor Lisa Bloom. And from Mountainview, California, attorney Bob Kohn, author of the book "Journalistic Fraud." Appreciate both of you joining us. Lisa, you just heard this discussion. Any thoughts?
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV: He just seems like dozens of sexual harassment plaintiffs that represented in my practice, Anderson. And for everyone who says that this is a jolly good time for her, that she's just out for blood and out for money, you see the human face behind this case.
I want to point out that Bill O'Reilly has not denied any of her allegations, but what he has done very effectively, is used the medium that he knows so well, the media, and turned it into it's all about extortion. All of her allegations that he specifically asked her for sexual activity, that he mixed it in with talk of work over and over again, that he was using a vibrator while talking to her on the phone. All of that has gotten lost very effectively by Fox News' spin.
COOPER: Bob, you've heard this talk from Andrea tonight and her attorney. What do you make of it?
BOB KOHN, ATTORNEY: You just did an interview with 2 very worried people who have been completely outmaneuvered. This case is about whether the sexual talk that he did with this woman was unwelcome, OK? And she has proven, not only in her lawsuit that during the 4 years she worked with him that this was welcome, OK, because she never said to him...
COOPER: How are you saying it's welcome?
KOHN: Because in the complaint, in her lawsuit, it specifically says she may have been flustered, but there's no allegation that she told him that she was concerned.
BLOOM: Well, that's just not true.
The complaint is repeat with Andrea Mackris saying she didn't want her him talking to her like that.
KOHN: Don't interrupt me! Let me just finish off this. This is really important here! Now, when she came back to work for him, all right, that's another sign that it was welcome. And the first thing she starts doing, is being a Linda Tripp. She starts tape recording the conversations.
BLOOM: Thank God she did, because no one would believe her.
KOHN: Those tape recordings are going to be evidence that they were welcome. And finally, yesterday the reason why that she's starting to make mistakes. On the Today Show she said he pushed the boundaries, that is Bill O'Reilly, she said, pushed the boundaries further from what I had already established. In other words, she established boundaries for dirty talk with him.
BLOOM: She established boundaries that she didn't want him talk that way.
COOPER: Bob, let Lisa respond right now. KOHN: It's all over! Slam dunk.
BLOOM: Bob, the complaint was replete with allegation that she didn't want it. And if you mean to tell me, you think her idea of a good time is Bill O'Reilly talking about a falafel and a loofa in a shower, I don't think you understand women too well.
KOHN: That's what she said.
BLOOM: She alleged that she didn't like it. That she didn't want him doing it. And you know what?
KOHN: Later, later on she says that.
BLOOM: Bob...
KOHN: She doesn't say that early.
BLOOM: A woman has a right to have a decent job. The best job that she has ever had. She has a right to go back to it and keep it and not be sexually harassed. She doesn't have to choose between her job and her decency.
KOHN: And she has a right to talk dirty with her boss. And she accepted that for 4 years.
BLOOM: You know, even Bill O'Reilly doesn't claim that she talked dirty.
KOHN: These were welcome. You can say anything you want to somebody at work, wherever it is, if it's welcome, it's not sexual harassment.
BLOOM: That's true. But Fox News has not alleged that anywhere in their detailed arguments. They never denied the...
KOHN: They don't have to. They haven't even responded to the complaint yet.
(CROSSTALK)
KOHN: There's a reason why they filed this lawsuit for extortion, that's to get this attorney disqualified for extortion.
BLOOM: This is not the first time Fox News has run to court first. And it may not be the first time their case is thrown out immediately.
KOHN: This is a different case. You can't go talking about another case.
BLOOM: We're going to have to leave it there. Bob Kohn, Lisa Bloom. appreciate both your perspectives.
Today's "Buzz" is this, what do you think? "Have the media treated Bill O'Reilly fairly?" Log on to cnn.com/360, cast your vote. We'll have results at the end of program.
And next on 360, the mess about Mary: How war of words over a comment about the Cheneys' daughter overshadows everything, simply "Overkill" this week.
And a little later, a much lighter note, getting desperate in the "Weekender?" ABC's new hit. What's all of the buzz about? We'll tell you ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, there's something about Mary, all right. John Kerry mentioned Mary Cheney's sexual orientation during the last debate. And the issue has knocked everything else out of the headlines it seems. What did the president say about education? What is Senator Kerry's position on Social Security? Who knows? They're all talking about Mary to the point of "Overkill."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: If you watched the news on TV yesterday, it almost felt like the third presidential debate was all about.
O'REILLY: Mary Cheney.
COOPER: Mary Cheney.
CHARLEY GIBSON, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: Vice President Cheney's daughter Mary who is openly gay.
COOPER: Mary Cheney became the political talking point of the day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did John Kerry cross the line when he talked about Mary Cheney's sexuality in the last debate?
COOPER: Entire segments were dedicated to nothing else?
O'REILLY: Everybody knows Mary Cheney is gay. I mean, anybody who pays attention.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
COOPER: The topic was debated.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Why was it inappropriate in your person, if you believe it was inappropriate, for John Kerry to mention the fact that Vice President and Lynne Cheney have a gay daughter.
COOPER: All day long, Republicans on TV say they were offended.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't understand what they're doing, but it's the most despicable, cheap political shot I've ever seen.
COOPER: And Democrats got defensive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a distraction. There are so many more important issues we ought to be talking about.
COOPER: Shows replay John Kerry's comment over and over.
KERRY: I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian...
COOPER: And replayed Lynne Cheney's reaction.
O'REILLY: Well, shortly after that, Lynne Cheney said this.
LYNNE CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT RICHARD CHENEY'S WIFE: The only thing I could conclude is this is not a good man.
COOPER: And there were the banners, more or less creative, even on this show.
So why is this overkill? Well, because yesterday the name of Dick Cheney's daughter was uttered 295 times on local, cable and network television. And all but forgotten, it seems, were the other issues addressed in the final debate -- education, health care, jobs and tax cuts. And that's why Mary Cheney is this week's "Overkill."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, I'd like to cover a whole -- a lot of different kinds of stories. I don't know, my grammar's all gone to -- out the window. Who knew being desperate could be so good? Coming up next on 360, after years of gloomy ratings, ABC has a bona fide hit on its hands, a much lighter story in "The Weekender." A look at some sweet desperation ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Our blooper reel is complete.
Fans of "Sex and the City" don't have to feel alone and hopeless on Sunday nights anymore. There is a new show that has given them what they've been waiting more -- almost. After one ratings- challenged network being forlorn, it's making a lot of people awfully happy. Let's take a look in "The Weekender."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Welcome to Wisteria (ph) Lane.
COOPER (voice-over): ABC is desperate no more. "Desperate Housewives," the most watched new show, is shaking up the neighborhood and an industry. The "Sex and the City" for the suburbs has paid off big for the network.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It doesn't mean anything. It was just sex.
COOPER: Since its debut, "Desperate Housewives" has been watched by an average of 20 million Americans. Those numbers have helped catapult ABC to victory on Sunday nights, and it's risky, steamy stuff like this that's helping the network pay off big. So what's the secret? For starters, "Housewives" is a dark comedy that chronicles the lives and desires of five svelte women. Each comes with enough sex, sizzle, mystery and angst to keep people glued to the sets. When it comes to lust, they play dirt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't believe you tried to kill me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, well, I feel badly about that.
COOPER: And desperation isn't the only key to ABC's sudden success.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the hell's that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something's coming.
COOPER: Being lost also helps. The drama about plane crash survivors stranded on an island is a big ratings winner.
So, too, are "Wife Swap."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's the vacuum cleaner, which I don't know how to use.
COOPER: "Boston Legal."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You two have had sex.
COOPER: And "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see horses and monkeys.
COOPER: With ABC back on the map, some analysts say NBC and CBS may be in ratings danger. Maybe it's only a matter of time before they also start getting a bit desperate, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think you could stop by later tonight and take a look at my pipes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Women don't fight fair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Goodness! Well, 360 next, United States is the world's most powerful democracy, so you'd think we'd know how to vote by now. But with all the new gadgets, we could be setting ourselves up for some trouble. We're going to fix the voting process to "The Nth Degree," next.
And today's "Buzz," have the media treated Bill O'Reilly fairly? What do you think? Log on to cnn.com/360. Cast your vote. Results when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Time now for "The Buzz." Earlier we asked you, have the media treated Bill O'Reilly fairly? Ninety-one percent of you said yes; 9 percent said no. Not a scientific poll, but it is "The Buzz." We appreciate you voting.
Tonight, taking the ballot box to "The Nth Degree."
It's time, we think, to take up the subject of tabulating the vote. That's what the election will come down to, after all, and we had a spot of trouble in the counting area last time around, as you may remember.
Lots of new systems and machines are supposed to be used this November, but they all have their detractors. So here are a couple of proposals.
The government could go out to Toys "R" Us to stock up on some of those great shape-sorting toys that toddlers like so much. Hey, they'd be dandy ballot boxes, based on the wonderful old, rock solid, you can't put a round peg in a square hole principle. Just have John Kerry's face on one shape and George Bush's in another, and there you are. A ballot box even a baby could use.
Or maybe even lower tech is the way to go. Cardboard boxes were good enough for the Afghans, after all. There's an awful lot to be said for their extreme simplicity. No hanging chads here, just a piece of paper and a slot.
Red and blue ping-pong balls, garbanzo and fava beans, you'd think the Earth's only superpower could come up with something fool- proof.
I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for watching. Have a great weekend. Coming up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
