Return to Transcripts main page

Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Rumsfeld Stays in Bush Cabinet; Cops Raid Neverland Ranch

Aired December 03, 2004 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from New York. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Donald Rumsfeld's not going anywhere.

360 starts now.

Rummy remains. The controversial secretary of defense stays in power. Tonight, what that means for the war in Iraq.

Cops raid Michael Jackson's Neverland ranch, again. But did they find what they're searching for, or is this a sign their case is getting cold?

A CNN exclusive. A Catholic diocese in California says, We're sorry for sexually abusing 87 kids. Now, the largest payout in church history is on the way. But have they really done enough?

What really happened to Lady Di? Conspiracy theories swirl, and Scotland Yard is investigating. But will they really be able to put the mystery to rest?

ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.

COOPER: And good evening again on this Friday.

With more than half of President Bush's cabinet on the way out the door, the news tonight is not who is going, but who is staying. Donald Rumsfeld, the secretary of defense, perhaps the biggest lightning rod in the Bush administration, is staying on at the president's request.

Rumsfeld has taken hits from all sides during the past four years from those who are against the war in Iraq and from those who support the war but say he didn't plan it properly. He's made some enemies within the Pentagon, no doubt about it, by forcing his underlings to throw out old ways of thinking. And he's gotten in hot water more than once by saying what he really thinks.

For more on the story, and some other cabinet comings and goings, we turn live to our CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux. Suzanne?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson. A senior administration official's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) has said President Bush himself asked Rumsfeld to stay on for a second term, another four years. And he asked him on Monday that Rumsfeld accepted this, officials saying the reason why because this is a country that's in the middle of a war, that feels he's proven himself, and that he's the right person for the job.

It is no surprise that Rumsfeld accepted. He has said in the past that he wants to continue with the transformation in Iraq as well as transform the Pentagon, as well.

Now, of course, there were other announcements as well, as that President Bush today nominating Bernie Kerik to replace his homeland secretary, his homeland security secretary, rather, Tom Ridge. Kerik served as an enlisted military police officer in Korea, a jail warden in New Jersey, also, of course, the New York City police commissioner.

He's most notably of accomplished for really putting back together New York City after the September 11 attacks. He also worked with Iraqi police in training them during the transformation.

And then also, Anderson, a third announcement out of the White House this today, Secretary of Health and Human Services Tommy Thompson resigning. He is most known for his legislation, Medicare legislation, that adds a prescription drug coverage. The likely replacement is Mark McClellan. He, of course, is the chief Medicare official of the administration, as well as the former commissioner of the FDA. Also, his name may sound familiar. He's the brother of the White House press secretary, Scott McClellan.

We can say that there are six more positions that are still in question, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Suzanne Malveaux, thanks from the White House.

Donald Rumsfeld is the kind of cabinet secretary the media likes. He's pretty tough one on one, but he has a sense of humor, and he's certainly not afraid to say what he really thinks. In short, he makes for good TV. Whether that makes a good cabinet secretary, however, we'll leave to others to decide.

Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre now looks at his tenure.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To many, Iraq is seen as Rumsfeld's war, and the 72-year-old defense secretary is both its chief architect and most passionate defender. He admitted earlier this year, he never expected the U.S. death toll, now over 1,200, to be so high. But he argues, it's worth it to defeat terrorists abroad before they attack the United States.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Listen, these folks are determined. These are killers. They chop people's heads off. MCINTYRE: Unlike other cabinet members, Rumsfeld never gave any indication he might want to leave, especially with the war in Iraq still raging, and his plans to transform the U.S. military into a lighter, more mobile force unfinished.

RUMSFELD: Well, we've made considerable progress, but there's much to be done.

MCINTYRE: A former college wrestler, Rumsfeld's known as a formidable political infighter behind the scenes. And at his public press conferences, he rarely admits to any policy failures. When U.S. troops were unable to stop looting after the fall of Baghdad, Rumsfeld was unapologetic, famously remarking, "Stuff happens."

RUMSFELD: And it's untidy. And freedom's untidy. And free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things. They are also free to live their lives and do wonderful things. And that's what's going to happen here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld's aides say they doubt he'll serve another full four-year term, but they say it's not in his nature to leave while Iraq and, for that matter, his legacy is still uncertain, Anderson.

COOPER: Jamie McIntyre, thanks very much.

We like to examine all sides on this program, so tonight, two perspectives on Donald Rumsfeld, one from retired army colonel James Carafano, currently at the Heritage Foundation, who is a supporter of the defense secretary's, and retired Air Force colonel P.J. Crowley, now the Center for the American Progress, who is a critic.

Gentlemen, we appreciate both of you being on the program tonight.

Colonel Crowley, let me begin with you. His supporters say Rumsfeld is experienced, he's authoritative, he's innovative. Why shouldn't he still be defense secretary?

COL. P.J. CROWLEY (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Well, I think, as Jamie mentioned, he is the architect of the Iraq policy. And let's face it, the Iraq policy is not going very well. You know, Jim's an Army guy, I'm an Air Force guy. Rumsfeld's a Navy guy. Normally, when things go wrong, as the captain at the helm of the ship, you know, he takes responsibility when things do go wrong.

He misjudged the insurgency, he misjudged troop levels. He's been wrong about weapons of mass destruction. His policies on Abu Ghraib and now on enemy combatants are being repudiated by the courts. You know,m there's not a lot going right right now. And even with an election, there's no telling that we have the correct strategy going forward.

So where there should be accountability for what's gone wrong in Iraq, Rumsfeld's being asked to re-up.

COOPER: Well, Colonel Carafano, let's talk about accountability. I mean, as you've just heard critics saying, his decision that no one has borne any responsibility for what's gone wrong for Iraq. Only Colin Powell is gone, and he's the one who raised the most red flags.

COL. JAMES CARAFANO (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, I mean, let's be practical about this and look at it from a historical point of view. Wars are messy things. I mean, if we fired all the leadership every time everything went wrong, we would have fired people after the Battle of the Bulge, after North Africa. People, I, we wouldn't have, you would never finish a war with the people you started with.

I mean, let's look at the facts. And the facts is, they said we couldn't invade Afghanistan, we couldn't get to al Qaeda, and we couldn't get to the Taliban. They're gone. The fact, they said we couldn't have elections, we couldn't set up a government in Afghanistan. We have. They said we couldn't get Saddam without thousands and hundreds of thousands of casualties and cities burning to the ground. We did.

We said that we couldn't...

COOPER: Do you believe...

CARAFANO: ... get Saddam.

COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

CARAFANO: Wait a second. We did. They said...

CROWLEY: We're working on that.

CARAFANO: ... they said you can't have elections, and the, the, it looks like we're going to have elections. They said we couldn't stand up Iraqi security forces (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 20,000 people.

So, you know, you can't judge a battle by standing in the middle of the battleground and picking out things you don't like and saying everything is a failure.

COOPER: Well, Colonel Crowley, what do you think about that?

CROWLEY: Well, I just think that we don't have the right strategy here. We don't have enough troops. And also, with President Bush moving forward, he wants to have a new atmosphere with respect to international affairs, and Rumsfeld is a lightning rod. And right now, the president is facing an unwanted political battle over the intelligence bill. Duncan Hunter is carrying Don Rumsfeld's water in opposing this bill.

So we now have political crisis at the White House, and Rumsfeld is at the heart of it.

COOPER: Colonel Crowley, are you concerned at all? I mean, Condoleezza Rice now at the State Department. Rumsfeld's at defense. In your opinion, is this a hawks-only foreign policy apparatus?

CROWLEY: Well, I think that clearly this signals that we're going to continue with the course that we're on. Unfortunately, when you look at what is going to confront us over the next four years, North Korea in particular, we really have policy paralysis, because we've never been able to overcome, you know, the hardline position taken by Rumsfeld and Cheney.

Condi Rice is going to be at the center of that eye of the storm. She's going to have to try to bring diplomacy to the fore. Rumsfeld up to this point has been really opposed...

COOPER: Well...

CROWLEY: ... to diplomacy with respect to North Korea, Iran, and the Middle East peace process.

COOPER: Colonel Carafano, I mean, you know, there are a lot who say, Look, it's an advantage to have everyone on the same page, the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) critics say, you know, it's a danger of creating an echo chamber. Your thoughts?

CARAFANO: Well, I think, you know, P.J. brings up some really good issues. I mean, let's look at the Iraq strategy. And quite frankly, I think it is exactly the right strategy. Matter of fact, if you looked at the Kerry strategy and you looked at the Bush strategy, you know, quite honestly, when you stripped away the things that weren't practical, they were pretty much the same thing. It's getting the elections, establishing legitimate government, getting security forces in the field. That's the only...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: But I don't think people are arguing with that so much when they talk about Donald Rumsfeld. I think it's more a certain arrogance that his critics point to, and also an unwillingness to, it seems, to those critics who say, you know, he's not willing to admit mistakes or be, you know, at all sort of apologetic about mistakes that have been made.

CARAFANO: Well, I think foreign policy and defense are really about results. I mean, if, you know, we (UNINTELLIGIBLE) fired everybody we didn't like, we wouldn't have a lot of generals. I mean, (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

COOPER: But shouldn't anyone bear responsibility...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: ... for the decisions that are made?

CARAFANO: I mean, absolutely. And that's absolutely, and you should be based on results. Matter of fact, we had a mission in Afghanistan. It's been relatively success. We've had a mission in Iraq that's been difficult. But all wars are difficult and unpredictable. But we're moving forward. We're not moving backward. So I don't see the issue here.

COOPER: Well, I mean, his critics will say, yes, all wars are unpredictable, but there are some things you can plan for. His critics say Donald Rumsfeld didn't plan for, you know, what happens after, you know, the tanks get the bad guy.

CARAFANO: Absolutely. And, you know, and that's really a great point. I mean, I, quite frankly, the post-conflict planning was deeply flawed. But, you know, I really think that transcend -- and I think this is a great issue. If we take anything away from Iraq, the one thing this country does very, very poorly is plan for post- conflict operations.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: ... do you think we're in post-conflict operations? Because if that's post-conflict...

CARAFANO: Well, I...

COOPER: ... you know, it seems pretty much like conflict operations right now.

CARAFANO: But, you know, I did a study of every war from the American revolution forward, and we always screwed up, because, because we always had (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We don't have the interagency we need, we don't have the military focused on these things. And these are really deep institutional problems that really transcend the administration.

So if we learn one thing, we need to structure our military and our interagency community, the State Department, all these agencies, to handle the postwar period better so we make a better transition.

COOPER: OK, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), just for clarification, P.J., do you think we're in postwar period here in Iraq, or are we still in war period?

CROWLEY: Oh, not at all. We're still in conflict. We have yet to defeat the insurgency, and that remains the really difficult problem. Even with elections, you can't, you know, envision returning an economy to Iraq, getting to reconstruction, and getting to an new political -- an effective political process until we deal with the violence.

And it remains an open question whether we have the right strategy to move forward. This has been a strategic failure, and Don Rumsfeld is at the heart of that.

COOPER: More than 1,000 Americans dead since the war apparently ended, and we're in this post-conflict area. But we got to leave it there. (UNINTELLIGIBLE), both of you, I really appreciate you joining us. This was really interesting, Colonel Crowley and Colonel Carafano. Thanks very much. Good discussion.

CROWLEY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). CARAFANO: Pleasure.

COOPER: Simultaneous attacks in Baghdad killed 29 today. Tops our look what's going on around the world right now, the uplink.

This morning, four suicide bombers drove an explosives-filled minivan into a Baghdad Shi'ite mosque, killing more than a dozen Iraqis, many of whom had gathered for prayers, all part of their new strategy here. At the same time, insurgents attacked two of the city's police stations with rockets, small arms, and grenades.

Madrid, Spain, now, five gas station bombed. The explosions happened shortly after someone claiming to be from the Basque separatist group ECKA (ph) issued a bomb threat to a Basque newspaper. Six people were slightly injured.

We move now to Kiev, Ukraine, the election nullified. The country's supreme court has overturned the results of the presidential runoff, in part recognizing opposition claims of voter fraud. The high court ordered another election to take place within three weeks.

Lima, Peru, American's 20-year sentence upheld. This young woman, Laurie Berenson (ph), the region's top rights court refused to throw out a terrorism conviction for her. She is charged with collaborating with Marxist rebels in a foiled attempt to seize Peru's congress. Berenson denies any wrongdoing.

Athens, Greece, Alexander the bisexual. Twenty-five Greek lawyers who threatened to sue the makers of Oliver Stone's "Alexander" are giving up their fight after seeing the film. They earlier wanted it banned because it depicts the Greek hero as bisexual. They now say the film did not have the explicit scenes they feared. Just a lot of man-on-man hugging.

That's tonight's uplink.

360 next, police raid Michael Jackson's ranch again. What does it say about the strength of the child molestation case against him? We'll have the latest.

Plus, fact check, election 2004, accusations of voting irregularities, outright fraud. But is it all just sour grapes? Try to get to the bottom of it.

Also tonight, that's right, a little retro. Pink Floyd's "The Wall." They didn't need no education, but now some of the kids on the soundtrack want their money. We'll find out what they're talking about.

First, your picks. Let's take a look, most popular stories right now on CNN.com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, in California, Michael Jackson had surprise guests show up all day, in fact, at his Neverland ranch. They were police investigators, and a lot of them.

CNN's Miguel Marquez has the latest on yet another Jackson raid.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another search warrant, another search of Michael Jackson's Neverland ranch. Investigators from Santa Barbara County sheriff's office descended on the pop star's property at 9:00 a.m. Pacific time. What they're looking for, investigators didn't say, but Jackson's family sees this as a last-minute fishing expedition.

DEBRA OPRI, JACKSON FAMILY ATTORNEY: They believe that this is enough. Enough is enough.

MARQUEZ: And a source close to Jackson called the search highly irregular, given that the case is moving so close to trial.

Santa Barbara Superior Court Judge Wavvy (ph) Melville has set a firm trial date of January 31. The search also comes days before the deadline for Santa Barbara District Attorney Tom Sneddon to turn over all discovery to Jackson's defense team. In November, Judge Melville ordered that Sneddon must complete discovery and turn it over to the defense by Monday, December 6.

OPRI: What we need to look at is, why is there yet another search? Is there a search for DNA?

MARQUEZ: It is the second time that investigators have searched Neverland ranch as they try to prove charges of conspiracy and child molestation against the pop star. Jackson has pled not guilty to the charges.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: Now, the question still remains, what exactly were investigators looking for? Are they just tying an investigative lead, or are they starting a new investigative thread here? We may know more at the next pretrial hearing, which is slated for a little later this month, Anderson.

COOPER: Miguel Marquez, thanks very much for that.

Covering the Neverland ranch search in justice served tonight is Court TV correspondent Savannah Guthrie.

Good to have you, first time on the program.

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, COURT TV CORRESPONDENT: Nice to be here.

COOPER: A lot of theories out there what they might have been searching for. What do you make of it?

GUTHRIE: Well, it's hard to know. I mean, they literally could be looking for anything. It could be documents, it could be tangible items like physical evidence. It could be forensic evidence, like DNA.

You know what's very interesting, Anderson, very recently, the state got back all of its testing on the forensics in this case. It's possible something in those results made them want to go back to Neverland ranch and have another look.

COOPER: So they have DNA samples from Michael Jackson already, or (UNINTELLIGIBLE), or we don't know what they have, already, not from today, but previously?

GUTHRIE: It is my understanding they didn't up until today have a DNA sample of Michael Jackson. We'll just have to wait and see what it is they're looking for.

COOPER: Wouldn't they have been able to get that when, I mean, he was in, they brought him into custody, and, you know, it was that highly publicized thing. Wouldn't they have been able to get that then, or no? (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

GUTHRIE: Well, it's a perfectly reasonable question. I mean, it was so negotiated, his whole surrender. And that's a normal thing that would happen. OK, let's get a DNA test right then. That didn't happen here. That's my understanding. So that may be something they're trying to tie up.

COOPER: I mean, I can't imagine, you know, what a lousy job, going around Neverland ranch looking for, you know, DNA samples. Not a pleasant thought there.

We're about two months away from trial. Given the fact that they're now executing this search warrant, does it, I mean, I guess it, you know, I don't want to go down the road of speculation too much, but, I mean, is there a sense out there that the prosecution's case is solid, or I mean, this could be seen as they're kind of searching around for something.

GUTHRIE: Yes, that's one way to look at it. The trial's supposed to start at the end of January. And what are they going back to the ranch and still looking for evidence? You could look at it as a weakness.

On the other hand, it may be looked at as a strength. Maybe they have some new evidence. Maybe somebody in the case has given them a new lead, and now they have reason to go back and ask the court to go back to Neverland ranch. Remember, when you apply for a search warrant, you can't go back any old time you want. Let's go have another look and see what we find.

They would have had to tell the judge very specifically what it was they're looking for. Maybe they have new information and a new reason to search the ranch.

COOPER: The defense did have a setback earlier in the week. They had wanted to be able to do, what, a psychological test on the accuser, on his family. That was denied. GUTHRIE: Exactly. And it is a setback. I mean, I think it would have been great for the defense if the judge had allowed it, because wouldn't that be, you know, just exactly what they wanted, a psychological exam of the accuser? They'd have a field day with that. I'm not really surprised that the judge turned that down, especially the request was so broad, I mean...

COOPER: Well, also considering there have been allegations of intimidation of the accuser of the family. It seems to make sense why the judge wouldn't (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

GUTHRIE: Unless there was a specific, relevant reason for them to have a psychological exam of the accuser and the accuser's family, the judge is going to be protective of this young boy.

COOPER: All right, interesting. Savannah Guthrie, appreciate your joining us. Thanks very much.

GUTHRIE: My pleasure.

COOPER: Well, 360 next, dramatic rescue on the high seas. A boat capsizes with at least 90 people on board. Coast Guard springs into action, as they so often do.

Also tonight, Princess Diana, car accident or coverup? Conspiracy theories floating around there out there. We'll try to separate the facts from the fictions. Part of our special series a little later.

(UNINTELLIGIBLE) Savannah and I are rocking on here. Another brick in "The Wall," the kid, the kids on the Pink Floyd sound track ask for back pay. You don't need to know education to need a little money.

And in a moment, today's 360 challenge. Do you know news? We'll test you. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Welcome back to the program.

We are taking live to Houston, Texas. This the scene in southwest Houston, happening right now. These images taken from a helicopter. We are not sure exactly where in southwest Houston this is. It appears to be some sort of a warehouse district. There has been at least one structure that we can see on this video that has been in flames. It appears to be some sort of a warehouse.

Some of the buildings in the surrounding areas seem to be kind of a warehouse where trucks were offloading into those buildings. We also have seen some propane tanks in the region of that, the vicinity of that fire.

You can't really tell from these images. Rescue personnel, fire personnel, police are on the scene. You can see them in the upper right-hand corner of your screen, some of the flashing lights, that from a rescue vehicle from a fire truck.

But at this point, it's very hard to tell how close firefighters are able to get to this, or whether they're just trying to contain the blaze, and let it, and let it, and let it sort of burn down.

We are just hearing some reports from local affiliates in the area, from KTRK and others, that this is a chemical fire, so authorities being very careful about how they are responding to this.

As you can see, it has spread (UNINTELLIGIBLE) throughout this sort of area. There is heavy smoke there. Because it is dark, it is a little bit hard to tell, but there is a huge plume of black, thick smoke which is now rising high above Houston. And as you can see as this picture pulls out, you really get a sense of the black plume of smoke, how high it is going and how thick it is, not dissipating all that quickly.

Again, a chemical fire in southwest Houston. Emergency personnel are on the scene. Fire personnel have responded. We're going to continue try to gather some information on this and bring you the information and any developments as warranted, as we continue in this hour of 360.

Last night in southern California, an amazing scene, as 87 victims of alleged clergy sex abuse finally got what they were looking for, an apology. What they also got from the diocese (UNINTELLIGIBLE), excuse me, of Orange County was a massive amount of money.

Multiple sources now tell CNN that the payout is in the neighborhood of $100 million, which would make it the largest settlement in the history of the abuse scandal.

CNN's Drew Griffin has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They had suffered at the hands of the church for most of their lives. They had been battling the church in court for two years. But last night, when the apology and the settlement came, they could no longer hold onto their anger.

Those of the diocese of Orange now admitted were victims, abused by 43 different priests, nuns, and church-affiliated people, accepted the church's apology with a hug.

DAVID GUERRERO, ABUSE SURVIVOR: For once, them coming in tonight and settling these cases, and apologizing, and for Bishop Brown saying that he's going to hand-write a letter of apology to each and every victim, I mean, I couldn't stop crying.

GRIFFIN: Bishop Todd Brown also agreed to release documents detailing horrific cases of abuse. Attorney John Manley says it is over. And the sense of relief for him and his clients is overwhelming. JOHN MANLEY, VICTIMS' ATTORNEY: I think it reflects the point that all these people ever wanted was to be believed. And tonight, what you have is a concrete demonstration by him that it did happen, and he's sorry.

GRIFFIN: The settlement remains under a gag order for at least seven days, but sources tell CNN it is in the neighborhood of $100 million, which will be by far the biggest settlement to date in the ever-growing sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church.

Drew Griffin, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, a tragic accident at sea tops our look at what's happening cross-country today.

In rough waters off Puerto Rico, a boat packed with migrants, most from the Dominican Republic, capsized just three hours after it was turned back by Puerto Rican police. U.S. Coast Guard helicopters scooped 83 survivors from the water, carried them to safety, but at least seven people drowned.

Somerville, New Jersey, now, Jayson Williams will get a retrial in March. A state judge rejected defense request to throw out a reckless manslaughter charge against the former NBA star for the 2002 shooting death of his driver. The jurors couldn't reach a verdict on that count earlier this year, but acquitted Williams of a more serious charge.

L.A., California, now, Nick Nolte is sued. Parents of a teenaged girl who was allegedly drugged and raped at Nolte's Malibu home two years ago are suing him for negligence. Nolte's publicist says the actor wasn't at the property at the time of the assault, and adds that the culprit has been held accountable. The crime happened four months after this famous mug shot, of course, taken after Nolte was pulled over for driving under the influence.

And that's a quick look at stories right now cross-country.

Coming up next on 360, was Princess Diana pregnant when her car crashed? And did someone actually plan the accident? It's the conspiracy theory that simply will not go away. Scotland Yard, of course, is investigating. Try to sort out the facts from the fiction, part of our special series tonight.

And they're ready to certify the votes in Ohio. But some say it is too soon, as claims of voter fraud continue. Take a close look at all sides. I'll talk to Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: It's been an interesting week here as we've taken a close look at conspiracy theories. Stories that, for whatever reason, continue to be fueled by rumor and speculation, especially on the Internet.

Tonight, we look at the death of Princess Diana. It has been 7 years since she and her lover, Dodi al Fayed, died in a car crash in Paris. And while the public mourning may be over, the questions still remain. Was it an accident or was foul play involved? And has there been a major coverup by the royal family?

Like most conspiracy theories, the questions lead everywhere and nowhere. So tonight it is up to CNN's Gary Tuchman to pick up the trail.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was an accident. Or was it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think it is accident. I think that it is royal murder.

TUCHMAN: More than 7 years after the tragic death of Princess Diana in a Paris tunnel, there are those who unequivocally believe there was a conspiracy to kill her, including Mohammed al-Fayed, the Egyptian father of her boyfriend Dodi who also died that night in 1997.

MOHAMMED AL FAYED, DODI AL FAYED'S FATHER: I already mentioned it. And I mentioning it all of the time. It is absolute black and white. It is murder.

TUCHMAN: The motive, the British royal family did not want Dodi to be stepfather to the next king. Diana actually wrote a letter to her butler, reported in a British newspaper, that she thought there may be a royal plot to kill her in a car accident.

But even her immediate family has said those were just the words of a sad woman. And they believe her death was accidental.

Most investigators have said most investigators said the same including a lawyer who represented one of the paparazzi implicated in the crash.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no doubt in my mind, and I presume in the judge's mind that there was not a conspiracy but an accident, tragic but an accident.

TUCHMAN: But the conspiracy minded have their they're theories, including that Diana may have been killed by the British Secret Service because she was a threat to the thrown.

Others have declared she may have faked her death to get away from a smothering public.

But it's the Dodi relationship that gets the most mileage where headlines in Egypt just after the crash declared, Diana/Dodi Tragedy Raises Big Question Marks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe one day she got a child. He would be the brother of the British kingdom. You understand? It can't be.

TUCHMAN: It was a fairy tale story which has transitioned into a tale that in so many respects is pitifully sad. Gary Tuchman, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: So, the question: is there any truth to the rumors about Princess Diana's death? Right before the show, I spoke to Thomas Sancton. Now, he is the former Paris bureau chief of "TIME" magazine. He has researched this story in depth. And he recently he did an investigative piece, "the Diana Mysteries" for "Vanity Fair." He is also the author of "Death of a Princess.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Tom, you've investigated this story for a long time on your own. Do you believe in any of the conspiracy theories? Do you think there was a conspiracy to kill Princess Diana?

THOMAS SANCTON, AUTHOR: Anderson, I really don't believe that personally. But what I do believe is that the French investigation left several mysteries unanswered. And that until there are satisfying answers for these questions, people who do believe in conspiracies are going to exploit those ambiguities and those mysteries.

COOPER: Let's go through sort of points by point some of the bigger theories out there. First, let's talk about the blood tests of the driver Henri Paul. There are those who say it was either faked or switched.

SANCTON: The whole mystery is -- revolves around levels of alcohol. And even more troubling, very, very high levels of carbon monoxide in the blood of the driver Henri Paul. His behavior did not -- was not consistent with someone that had levels of alcohol or carbon monoxide that high. He would have been stumbling around.

There was a second set of blood samples drawn. So, it is very difficult to believe that there would be a mistake made twice unless you buy into the idea that everybody involved, the coroner, the police investigators and the police lab and the private lab that analyzed these samples were all involved in a conspiracy. I think that's an awful lot of conspirators.

COOPER: There's also those who say that Princess Diana was pregnant, that she and Dodi Fayed were going to get married. And there were forces within England and the royal party that didn't want a Muslim child in the royal family. There are those who say, look, they purchased a ring the day before the crash. Is there any way to disprove the pregnancy theory?

SANCTON: The pregnancy theory shores up the conspiracy theories and the arguments that people like Mohammed al Fayed. Could you prove that she was not pregnant? Well, the closest thing to a scientific judgment on that came from two of the doctors who were present in the autopsy of Princess Diana which took place in Britain the day after the accident. Both of them say that based on visual inspection of the uterus that there was no visible fetus, that she did not appear to be pregnant.

Fetus that is only several days old or a week or so old would not necessarily be visible. And to date as far as I know as far as any of the evidence that's been made public, or the confidential evidence that I'm aware of, none of them has made any reference to any actual pregnancy test being taken. Therefore, in the absence of a negative result of such a test, I think it is impossible to say absolutely 100 percent with 100 percent certainty that she was not pregnant.

COOPER: Scotland Yard is going to investigate. The investigation is supposed to be complete around the end of 2005. Do you think that investigation will actually put sort of all of these various theories, and there are many more than those we talked about, put them to rest, or is this something that regardless of evidence one way or another people are always going to kind of have questions and look into what they say is a mystery?

SANCTON: The real challenge for Scotland Yard, on the basis of the French investigation, is to try to find answers to a certain number of these mysteries. There are four or five or six mysteries that remain troubling and they continue to fuel conspiracy theories. And they concern the blood sample, they concern the pregnancy issue, they concern the role of the famous white Fiat in the accident. Who was driving it, what happened to it and several other questions.

Unless Scotland Yard can come up with convincing answers to these mysteries, then I think there is no way to ever put an end to the conspiracy theories.

COOPER: Tom, you have done more reporting on this, and more in- depth reporting than just about anyone else and we appreciate you joining us. Tom Sancton, thanks very much.

SANCTON: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: 360 next, breaking news happening right now. A chemical plant fire sending a huge plume of smoke and flames over Houston, Texas. There it is. That's the live shot. We're going to have the very latest when we come back.

Also tonight, the kids who backed Pink Floyd's The Wall say it is payback time. They want their money. That's ahead.

Also in a moment, today's 360's challenge. We'll test how closely you have been following today's news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: An update now on breaking news out of Houston involving a warehouse massive fire. Let's take you there. There you have the live pictures. Reports say the fire is at the Marcus Oil and Chemicals Plant in the southwest part of the city. I'm being told it is near several housing developments. We don't know if there are any injuries or the cause of the explosions at this point. They appear to have leveled at least one building. Fire seems pretty widespread. Both Houston police and firefighters being told to stay back because they're not certain if chemicals are burning in the fire. Marcus Oil and Chemical produces polyethylene waxes, tanker trucks carry it around the country. We'll continue to bring you any updates.

Many of you even those who are Democrats have probably put the November election behind you. Win or lose it is over. Not so fast. This week the Kerry campaign joined a lawsuit to force a recount in Ohio even though it is clear that it will not change anything and the votes will likely be certified on Monday. Then there are the emails and the blogs talking endlessly about how this or that was stolen or hacked or falsified in states across the country. Clearly many people continue to believe that Bush/Cheney were aided in their campaign by hanky-panky. Here's CNN's Adaora Udoji.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These Ohio voters are not convinced President Bush won their state giving him four more years in the White House.

CLIFF ARNEBECK, ATTY., COMMON CAUSE OHIO ALLIANCE FOR DEMOCRACY: Every form of irregularity that you can conceive of seemed to be happening in Ohio in this election.

UDOJI: Helped by Reverend Jesse Jackson the plan to challenge official results to be released Monday and demand a recount even though Senator John Kerry's losing campaign is not contesting the outcome. Ohio election officials say the results are sound.

CARLO LOPARD, SPOKESMAN, OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE: Democrats and Republicans are working together to make sure that they get it right.

UDOJI: It's not just Ohio. Complaints and accusations have flooded onto the Internet and in headlines almost faster than fact checkers can check them. Some theories quickly debunked by fact. The "Boston Globe" reports in North Carolina it initially appeared nearly 4,500 electronic votes had disappeared. Later an election official explained fatigued workers missed a computer signal. It was corrected.

The "New York Times" reported on accusations in Cleveland that there were more votes counted than there were voters. It turned out to be a clerical error. But the Nonpartisan Verified Voting Foundation is looking into reports of more than 37,000 incidents of election irregularities. And the U.S. Election Assistance Commission acknowledges there were glitches across the country. Machines didn't work, workers showed up late, you name it, they're reviewing it all.

DEFOREST SOARIES, ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION: The fact is the election results can be trusted. The margin this year for president was wide enough for us not to believe that any glitches would impact the outcome of the presidential race.

UDOJI: Still three Democratic congressmen have raised more election questions. They have asked the General Accounting Office to look into alleged problems and it is. Adaora Udoji, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: As we said on Monday, Ohio's secretary of state Kenneth Blackwell will certify the results in the voting in his state. We're sure that will not be the end of some of the challenges there. He joins us now from Cincinnati. Thank you for being with us Secretary Blackwell. We appreciate it. The election ended over a month ago. And yet you still haven't certified the vote and your critics are saying that you're trying to narrow the window for a recount in order to make it all but meaningless. Why is it taking so long?

KENNETH BLACKWELL, OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE: They need to take a deep breath and look at historical facts. In 2000 we certified on December 11. In 2002, December 20. We have a very thorough bipartisan process where we go vote for vote on accountability basis and we audit every precinct in the state of Ohio so that we're fully confident that when we certify we have certified every legal ballot that had been cast. We think that the voters of Ohio deserve nothing less than that sort of thorough confidence building process.

COOPER: I want to read you something that Columbus Mayor Michael Coleman who is a Democrat said about you.

He said, quote, "Ken Blackwell is the most partisan secretary of state Ohio has ever had. I have to tell you, I don't know how one can be the co-chair of the Bush presidential campaign while at the same time execute in a fair and impartial manner their duties of secretary of state."

COOPER: Of course you don't hear Democrats complaining about Democratic political operatives who are also on local election boards in Ohio but putting hypocrisy aside, why should people with political ambition be allowed to run and monitor elections, Democrat or Republican?

BLACKWELL: Because we have a very balanced bipartisan system. The parties are deeply embedded in the process.

COOPER: Should they be?

BLACKWELL: Yes. It is a very transparent process. Very open. We have a two-party system in this country. A tremendous history and our system produces free elections with clean results. That is our tradition in the state of Ohio and let me just show you something that should be clear to Mayor Michael Coleman who should be spending more time working on keeping our neighborhoods safe in Columbus and dealing with vacancy rate of downtown.

COOPER: Ouch.

BLACKWELL: The reality is that we have a Democrat who is the head of the Franklin County Board of Elections. He's not just any Democrat. Mr. Anthony is the chairman of the Franklin County Democrat party. But we have Republican chairmen who are in such leadership positions but we have balanced boards that are open and transparent and we produce good results. We have a thorough process. Like I said, we have a history of making sure that we get it right and we have gotten it right and our process for handling provisional ballots has been held up as a model in the country.

COOPER: We're going to have to leave it there. Secretary Blackwell, appreciate you joining us. We'll watch you on Monday.

Coming up next on 360, for Pink Floyd it's just another lawsuit on the wall. Remember that chorus of kids who made their album a classic, well they say they want thousands of dollars in unpaid royalties. Some of them do at least. The story up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: In tonight's "Current," our occasional look at pop culture, a musical milestone this week -- the 25th anniversary of the release of Pink Floyd's "The Wall." Now, like Led Zeppelin's "IV," the Beatles' "Abby Road," "The Wall" continues to be required classic rock listening for teenagers. Rock on!

What helped make the album so unique -- I don't know why I did that -- was the backup vocals of a group of English school kids. Now, back then they told the world "we don't need no education." Now it seems what they really want is a little compensation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHILDREN (singing): We don't need no education.

COOPER (voice-over): When Pink Floyd needed a few more voices for their anti-school anthem, "Another Brick in the Wall Part II," their engineer called on some kids from a local school.

CHILDREN (singing): We don't need no thought control.

COOPER: And with the help of the school's head of music, who got them to the local studio, 23 teens turned into a choir, heard if not seen backing up the Brit band on its best-selling album.

CHILDREN (singing): No dark sarcasm in the classroom.

COOPER: For the amateur adolescent singers of the Islington Green school, rocking out to the rebellious lyrics was, well, a laugh.

TABITHA MELLOR, FORMER SINGER: Sing it as if you're in a football match. We don't need no education. It was all of that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, that's really...

(CROSSTALK)

MELLOR: Yeah, it was really sort of... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that accent, education.

MELLOR: And we (UNINTELLIGIBLE) at the top of our lungs.

COOPER: The album was a hit, selling 23 million copies. But when the band sang the song on Britain's "Top of the Pops," and when "The Wall" was made into a music video, something was missing. The kids were left out in the cold, replaced by students from a local drama school who lip-synched the lines.

CHILDREN (singing): Hey, teacher, leave us kids alone!

COOPER: Pink Floyd pocketed a pile of money from the album. The school got 1,000-pound donation to its music program. That's about $2,000.

And the singing school kids? Well, they got a copy of the album and tickets to a Pink Floyd concert, and not a penny in compensation -- until now. Maybe.

U.K. royalties agent Peter Rowan says a 1996 British law allows session singers to collect royalties even for unpaid work. So he's been trying to track the old kids down.

PETER ROWAN, U.K. ROYALTIES AGENT: It was completely ad hoc. There were no lists, no photos. Nobody ever kept a record of the session.

COOPER: So far, he signed up just one of the singers for the compensation claim, and he's been contacted by seven more. Each of the now 30-somethings could come into some cash, though not much.

ROWAN: It's not a lot. It's enough for a good couple of nights out. One hundred, 150 pounds, what's that? A couple hundred dollars?

COOPER: And while it may not make them rich, the world now knows the one-hit wonders backing up the band behind "The Wall."

CHILDREN (singing): All in all, you're just another brick in the wall.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Of course, we do need an education.

360 next, excuse me. When a disputed election is just a rehash of childhood games? When they're taken to "The Nth Degree."

First, the 360 "Challenge." Here's another look at tonight's questions. Have you been paying attention? Log on to cnn.com/360, click on the answer link to play.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time now for the answers to today's 360 "Challenge." No. 1 -- what was that? Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has held a cabinet post in how many presidential administrations? The answer is three.

Police investigating Michael Jackson conducted a surprise raid today where? Neverland Ranch, of course.

And Orange County Catholic Diocese has settled lawsuits with how many sex abuse victims? Eighty-seven.

The first person to answer all three questions correctly will be sent a 360 shirt. Tune in tomorrow to find out if you're the one. Last night's winner -- Mark Marraccini, from New York City. Another 360 "Challenge." Congratulations, Mark. Another chance to win tomorrow.

Tonight, taking child's play to "The Nth Degree."

So now there's talk in Romania too, as there is in Ukraine, of throwing out the results of the most recent contested election and just holding another one. To tell you the truth, the idea gives us a kind of a warm, nostalgic feeling.

Hey, isn't this exactly what we used to do when we were kids? You remember. We called it the do-over. You just had to say it right away. Do-over, do-over, and whatever had just happened that you didn't care for was completely canceled. Didn't count. Had not in fact actually happened at all. You never spoke of it again.

Seems to us high time that the do-over took its proper place outside the schoolyard in adult and national affairs. Perhaps along with some other useful playground responses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD (chanting): Yushchenko! Yushchenko!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: For instance, if one side in the Ukraine elections preemptive called "no backsies" before the other side called "do- over," well, then the country would just have to live with the results, because, well, that's the power of "no backsies," as everyone knows.

It is right there in the international rule book of nyah-nyah and told you so. Just look it up.

Maybe an election isn't the way to go in this case. Maybe the candidates should just stand next to each other while someone does inka-dink-a-bottle-of-ink. It might work.

I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for watching. Have a great weekend. Coming up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired December 3, 2004 - 19:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from New York. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Donald Rumsfeld's not going anywhere.

360 starts now.

Rummy remains. The controversial secretary of defense stays in power. Tonight, what that means for the war in Iraq.

Cops raid Michael Jackson's Neverland ranch, again. But did they find what they're searching for, or is this a sign their case is getting cold?

A CNN exclusive. A Catholic diocese in California says, We're sorry for sexually abusing 87 kids. Now, the largest payout in church history is on the way. But have they really done enough?

What really happened to Lady Di? Conspiracy theories swirl, and Scotland Yard is investigating. But will they really be able to put the mystery to rest?

ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.

COOPER: And good evening again on this Friday.

With more than half of President Bush's cabinet on the way out the door, the news tonight is not who is going, but who is staying. Donald Rumsfeld, the secretary of defense, perhaps the biggest lightning rod in the Bush administration, is staying on at the president's request.

Rumsfeld has taken hits from all sides during the past four years from those who are against the war in Iraq and from those who support the war but say he didn't plan it properly. He's made some enemies within the Pentagon, no doubt about it, by forcing his underlings to throw out old ways of thinking. And he's gotten in hot water more than once by saying what he really thinks.

For more on the story, and some other cabinet comings and goings, we turn live to our CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux. Suzanne?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson. A senior administration official's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) has said President Bush himself asked Rumsfeld to stay on for a second term, another four years. And he asked him on Monday that Rumsfeld accepted this, officials saying the reason why because this is a country that's in the middle of a war, that feels he's proven himself, and that he's the right person for the job.

It is no surprise that Rumsfeld accepted. He has said in the past that he wants to continue with the transformation in Iraq as well as transform the Pentagon, as well.

Now, of course, there were other announcements as well, as that President Bush today nominating Bernie Kerik to replace his homeland secretary, his homeland security secretary, rather, Tom Ridge. Kerik served as an enlisted military police officer in Korea, a jail warden in New Jersey, also, of course, the New York City police commissioner.

He's most notably of accomplished for really putting back together New York City after the September 11 attacks. He also worked with Iraqi police in training them during the transformation.

And then also, Anderson, a third announcement out of the White House this today, Secretary of Health and Human Services Tommy Thompson resigning. He is most known for his legislation, Medicare legislation, that adds a prescription drug coverage. The likely replacement is Mark McClellan. He, of course, is the chief Medicare official of the administration, as well as the former commissioner of the FDA. Also, his name may sound familiar. He's the brother of the White House press secretary, Scott McClellan.

We can say that there are six more positions that are still in question, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Suzanne Malveaux, thanks from the White House.

Donald Rumsfeld is the kind of cabinet secretary the media likes. He's pretty tough one on one, but he has a sense of humor, and he's certainly not afraid to say what he really thinks. In short, he makes for good TV. Whether that makes a good cabinet secretary, however, we'll leave to others to decide.

Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre now looks at his tenure.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To many, Iraq is seen as Rumsfeld's war, and the 72-year-old defense secretary is both its chief architect and most passionate defender. He admitted earlier this year, he never expected the U.S. death toll, now over 1,200, to be so high. But he argues, it's worth it to defeat terrorists abroad before they attack the United States.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Listen, these folks are determined. These are killers. They chop people's heads off. MCINTYRE: Unlike other cabinet members, Rumsfeld never gave any indication he might want to leave, especially with the war in Iraq still raging, and his plans to transform the U.S. military into a lighter, more mobile force unfinished.

RUMSFELD: Well, we've made considerable progress, but there's much to be done.

MCINTYRE: A former college wrestler, Rumsfeld's known as a formidable political infighter behind the scenes. And at his public press conferences, he rarely admits to any policy failures. When U.S. troops were unable to stop looting after the fall of Baghdad, Rumsfeld was unapologetic, famously remarking, "Stuff happens."

RUMSFELD: And it's untidy. And freedom's untidy. And free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things. They are also free to live their lives and do wonderful things. And that's what's going to happen here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld's aides say they doubt he'll serve another full four-year term, but they say it's not in his nature to leave while Iraq and, for that matter, his legacy is still uncertain, Anderson.

COOPER: Jamie McIntyre, thanks very much.

We like to examine all sides on this program, so tonight, two perspectives on Donald Rumsfeld, one from retired army colonel James Carafano, currently at the Heritage Foundation, who is a supporter of the defense secretary's, and retired Air Force colonel P.J. Crowley, now the Center for the American Progress, who is a critic.

Gentlemen, we appreciate both of you being on the program tonight.

Colonel Crowley, let me begin with you. His supporters say Rumsfeld is experienced, he's authoritative, he's innovative. Why shouldn't he still be defense secretary?

COL. P.J. CROWLEY (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Well, I think, as Jamie mentioned, he is the architect of the Iraq policy. And let's face it, the Iraq policy is not going very well. You know, Jim's an Army guy, I'm an Air Force guy. Rumsfeld's a Navy guy. Normally, when things go wrong, as the captain at the helm of the ship, you know, he takes responsibility when things do go wrong.

He misjudged the insurgency, he misjudged troop levels. He's been wrong about weapons of mass destruction. His policies on Abu Ghraib and now on enemy combatants are being repudiated by the courts. You know,m there's not a lot going right right now. And even with an election, there's no telling that we have the correct strategy going forward.

So where there should be accountability for what's gone wrong in Iraq, Rumsfeld's being asked to re-up.

COOPER: Well, Colonel Carafano, let's talk about accountability. I mean, as you've just heard critics saying, his decision that no one has borne any responsibility for what's gone wrong for Iraq. Only Colin Powell is gone, and he's the one who raised the most red flags.

COL. JAMES CARAFANO (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, I mean, let's be practical about this and look at it from a historical point of view. Wars are messy things. I mean, if we fired all the leadership every time everything went wrong, we would have fired people after the Battle of the Bulge, after North Africa. People, I, we wouldn't have, you would never finish a war with the people you started with.

I mean, let's look at the facts. And the facts is, they said we couldn't invade Afghanistan, we couldn't get to al Qaeda, and we couldn't get to the Taliban. They're gone. The fact, they said we couldn't have elections, we couldn't set up a government in Afghanistan. We have. They said we couldn't get Saddam without thousands and hundreds of thousands of casualties and cities burning to the ground. We did.

We said that we couldn't...

COOPER: Do you believe...

CARAFANO: ... get Saddam.

COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

CARAFANO: Wait a second. We did. They said...

CROWLEY: We're working on that.

CARAFANO: ... they said you can't have elections, and the, the, it looks like we're going to have elections. They said we couldn't stand up Iraqi security forces (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 20,000 people.

So, you know, you can't judge a battle by standing in the middle of the battleground and picking out things you don't like and saying everything is a failure.

COOPER: Well, Colonel Crowley, what do you think about that?

CROWLEY: Well, I just think that we don't have the right strategy here. We don't have enough troops. And also, with President Bush moving forward, he wants to have a new atmosphere with respect to international affairs, and Rumsfeld is a lightning rod. And right now, the president is facing an unwanted political battle over the intelligence bill. Duncan Hunter is carrying Don Rumsfeld's water in opposing this bill.

So we now have political crisis at the White House, and Rumsfeld is at the heart of it.

COOPER: Colonel Crowley, are you concerned at all? I mean, Condoleezza Rice now at the State Department. Rumsfeld's at defense. In your opinion, is this a hawks-only foreign policy apparatus?

CROWLEY: Well, I think that clearly this signals that we're going to continue with the course that we're on. Unfortunately, when you look at what is going to confront us over the next four years, North Korea in particular, we really have policy paralysis, because we've never been able to overcome, you know, the hardline position taken by Rumsfeld and Cheney.

Condi Rice is going to be at the center of that eye of the storm. She's going to have to try to bring diplomacy to the fore. Rumsfeld up to this point has been really opposed...

COOPER: Well...

CROWLEY: ... to diplomacy with respect to North Korea, Iran, and the Middle East peace process.

COOPER: Colonel Carafano, I mean, you know, there are a lot who say, Look, it's an advantage to have everyone on the same page, the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) critics say, you know, it's a danger of creating an echo chamber. Your thoughts?

CARAFANO: Well, I think, you know, P.J. brings up some really good issues. I mean, let's look at the Iraq strategy. And quite frankly, I think it is exactly the right strategy. Matter of fact, if you looked at the Kerry strategy and you looked at the Bush strategy, you know, quite honestly, when you stripped away the things that weren't practical, they were pretty much the same thing. It's getting the elections, establishing legitimate government, getting security forces in the field. That's the only...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: But I don't think people are arguing with that so much when they talk about Donald Rumsfeld. I think it's more a certain arrogance that his critics point to, and also an unwillingness to, it seems, to those critics who say, you know, he's not willing to admit mistakes or be, you know, at all sort of apologetic about mistakes that have been made.

CARAFANO: Well, I think foreign policy and defense are really about results. I mean, if, you know, we (UNINTELLIGIBLE) fired everybody we didn't like, we wouldn't have a lot of generals. I mean, (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

COOPER: But shouldn't anyone bear responsibility...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: ... for the decisions that are made?

CARAFANO: I mean, absolutely. And that's absolutely, and you should be based on results. Matter of fact, we had a mission in Afghanistan. It's been relatively success. We've had a mission in Iraq that's been difficult. But all wars are difficult and unpredictable. But we're moving forward. We're not moving backward. So I don't see the issue here.

COOPER: Well, I mean, his critics will say, yes, all wars are unpredictable, but there are some things you can plan for. His critics say Donald Rumsfeld didn't plan for, you know, what happens after, you know, the tanks get the bad guy.

CARAFANO: Absolutely. And, you know, and that's really a great point. I mean, I, quite frankly, the post-conflict planning was deeply flawed. But, you know, I really think that transcend -- and I think this is a great issue. If we take anything away from Iraq, the one thing this country does very, very poorly is plan for post- conflict operations.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: ... do you think we're in post-conflict operations? Because if that's post-conflict...

CARAFANO: Well, I...

COOPER: ... you know, it seems pretty much like conflict operations right now.

CARAFANO: But, you know, I did a study of every war from the American revolution forward, and we always screwed up, because, because we always had (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We don't have the interagency we need, we don't have the military focused on these things. And these are really deep institutional problems that really transcend the administration.

So if we learn one thing, we need to structure our military and our interagency community, the State Department, all these agencies, to handle the postwar period better so we make a better transition.

COOPER: OK, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), just for clarification, P.J., do you think we're in postwar period here in Iraq, or are we still in war period?

CROWLEY: Oh, not at all. We're still in conflict. We have yet to defeat the insurgency, and that remains the really difficult problem. Even with elections, you can't, you know, envision returning an economy to Iraq, getting to reconstruction, and getting to an new political -- an effective political process until we deal with the violence.

And it remains an open question whether we have the right strategy to move forward. This has been a strategic failure, and Don Rumsfeld is at the heart of that.

COOPER: More than 1,000 Americans dead since the war apparently ended, and we're in this post-conflict area. But we got to leave it there. (UNINTELLIGIBLE), both of you, I really appreciate you joining us. This was really interesting, Colonel Crowley and Colonel Carafano. Thanks very much. Good discussion.

CROWLEY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). CARAFANO: Pleasure.

COOPER: Simultaneous attacks in Baghdad killed 29 today. Tops our look what's going on around the world right now, the uplink.

This morning, four suicide bombers drove an explosives-filled minivan into a Baghdad Shi'ite mosque, killing more than a dozen Iraqis, many of whom had gathered for prayers, all part of their new strategy here. At the same time, insurgents attacked two of the city's police stations with rockets, small arms, and grenades.

Madrid, Spain, now, five gas station bombed. The explosions happened shortly after someone claiming to be from the Basque separatist group ECKA (ph) issued a bomb threat to a Basque newspaper. Six people were slightly injured.

We move now to Kiev, Ukraine, the election nullified. The country's supreme court has overturned the results of the presidential runoff, in part recognizing opposition claims of voter fraud. The high court ordered another election to take place within three weeks.

Lima, Peru, American's 20-year sentence upheld. This young woman, Laurie Berenson (ph), the region's top rights court refused to throw out a terrorism conviction for her. She is charged with collaborating with Marxist rebels in a foiled attempt to seize Peru's congress. Berenson denies any wrongdoing.

Athens, Greece, Alexander the bisexual. Twenty-five Greek lawyers who threatened to sue the makers of Oliver Stone's "Alexander" are giving up their fight after seeing the film. They earlier wanted it banned because it depicts the Greek hero as bisexual. They now say the film did not have the explicit scenes they feared. Just a lot of man-on-man hugging.

That's tonight's uplink.

360 next, police raid Michael Jackson's ranch again. What does it say about the strength of the child molestation case against him? We'll have the latest.

Plus, fact check, election 2004, accusations of voting irregularities, outright fraud. But is it all just sour grapes? Try to get to the bottom of it.

Also tonight, that's right, a little retro. Pink Floyd's "The Wall." They didn't need no education, but now some of the kids on the soundtrack want their money. We'll find out what they're talking about.

First, your picks. Let's take a look, most popular stories right now on CNN.com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, in California, Michael Jackson had surprise guests show up all day, in fact, at his Neverland ranch. They were police investigators, and a lot of them.

CNN's Miguel Marquez has the latest on yet another Jackson raid.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another search warrant, another search of Michael Jackson's Neverland ranch. Investigators from Santa Barbara County sheriff's office descended on the pop star's property at 9:00 a.m. Pacific time. What they're looking for, investigators didn't say, but Jackson's family sees this as a last-minute fishing expedition.

DEBRA OPRI, JACKSON FAMILY ATTORNEY: They believe that this is enough. Enough is enough.

MARQUEZ: And a source close to Jackson called the search highly irregular, given that the case is moving so close to trial.

Santa Barbara Superior Court Judge Wavvy (ph) Melville has set a firm trial date of January 31. The search also comes days before the deadline for Santa Barbara District Attorney Tom Sneddon to turn over all discovery to Jackson's defense team. In November, Judge Melville ordered that Sneddon must complete discovery and turn it over to the defense by Monday, December 6.

OPRI: What we need to look at is, why is there yet another search? Is there a search for DNA?

MARQUEZ: It is the second time that investigators have searched Neverland ranch as they try to prove charges of conspiracy and child molestation against the pop star. Jackson has pled not guilty to the charges.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: Now, the question still remains, what exactly were investigators looking for? Are they just tying an investigative lead, or are they starting a new investigative thread here? We may know more at the next pretrial hearing, which is slated for a little later this month, Anderson.

COOPER: Miguel Marquez, thanks very much for that.

Covering the Neverland ranch search in justice served tonight is Court TV correspondent Savannah Guthrie.

Good to have you, first time on the program.

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, COURT TV CORRESPONDENT: Nice to be here.

COOPER: A lot of theories out there what they might have been searching for. What do you make of it?

GUTHRIE: Well, it's hard to know. I mean, they literally could be looking for anything. It could be documents, it could be tangible items like physical evidence. It could be forensic evidence, like DNA.

You know what's very interesting, Anderson, very recently, the state got back all of its testing on the forensics in this case. It's possible something in those results made them want to go back to Neverland ranch and have another look.

COOPER: So they have DNA samples from Michael Jackson already, or (UNINTELLIGIBLE), or we don't know what they have, already, not from today, but previously?

GUTHRIE: It is my understanding they didn't up until today have a DNA sample of Michael Jackson. We'll just have to wait and see what it is they're looking for.

COOPER: Wouldn't they have been able to get that when, I mean, he was in, they brought him into custody, and, you know, it was that highly publicized thing. Wouldn't they have been able to get that then, or no? (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

GUTHRIE: Well, it's a perfectly reasonable question. I mean, it was so negotiated, his whole surrender. And that's a normal thing that would happen. OK, let's get a DNA test right then. That didn't happen here. That's my understanding. So that may be something they're trying to tie up.

COOPER: I mean, I can't imagine, you know, what a lousy job, going around Neverland ranch looking for, you know, DNA samples. Not a pleasant thought there.

We're about two months away from trial. Given the fact that they're now executing this search warrant, does it, I mean, I guess it, you know, I don't want to go down the road of speculation too much, but, I mean, is there a sense out there that the prosecution's case is solid, or I mean, this could be seen as they're kind of searching around for something.

GUTHRIE: Yes, that's one way to look at it. The trial's supposed to start at the end of January. And what are they going back to the ranch and still looking for evidence? You could look at it as a weakness.

On the other hand, it may be looked at as a strength. Maybe they have some new evidence. Maybe somebody in the case has given them a new lead, and now they have reason to go back and ask the court to go back to Neverland ranch. Remember, when you apply for a search warrant, you can't go back any old time you want. Let's go have another look and see what we find.

They would have had to tell the judge very specifically what it was they're looking for. Maybe they have new information and a new reason to search the ranch.

COOPER: The defense did have a setback earlier in the week. They had wanted to be able to do, what, a psychological test on the accuser, on his family. That was denied. GUTHRIE: Exactly. And it is a setback. I mean, I think it would have been great for the defense if the judge had allowed it, because wouldn't that be, you know, just exactly what they wanted, a psychological exam of the accuser? They'd have a field day with that. I'm not really surprised that the judge turned that down, especially the request was so broad, I mean...

COOPER: Well, also considering there have been allegations of intimidation of the accuser of the family. It seems to make sense why the judge wouldn't (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

GUTHRIE: Unless there was a specific, relevant reason for them to have a psychological exam of the accuser and the accuser's family, the judge is going to be protective of this young boy.

COOPER: All right, interesting. Savannah Guthrie, appreciate your joining us. Thanks very much.

GUTHRIE: My pleasure.

COOPER: Well, 360 next, dramatic rescue on the high seas. A boat capsizes with at least 90 people on board. Coast Guard springs into action, as they so often do.

Also tonight, Princess Diana, car accident or coverup? Conspiracy theories floating around there out there. We'll try to separate the facts from the fictions. Part of our special series a little later.

(UNINTELLIGIBLE) Savannah and I are rocking on here. Another brick in "The Wall," the kid, the kids on the Pink Floyd sound track ask for back pay. You don't need to know education to need a little money.

And in a moment, today's 360 challenge. Do you know news? We'll test you. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Welcome back to the program.

We are taking live to Houston, Texas. This the scene in southwest Houston, happening right now. These images taken from a helicopter. We are not sure exactly where in southwest Houston this is. It appears to be some sort of a warehouse district. There has been at least one structure that we can see on this video that has been in flames. It appears to be some sort of a warehouse.

Some of the buildings in the surrounding areas seem to be kind of a warehouse where trucks were offloading into those buildings. We also have seen some propane tanks in the region of that, the vicinity of that fire.

You can't really tell from these images. Rescue personnel, fire personnel, police are on the scene. You can see them in the upper right-hand corner of your screen, some of the flashing lights, that from a rescue vehicle from a fire truck.

But at this point, it's very hard to tell how close firefighters are able to get to this, or whether they're just trying to contain the blaze, and let it, and let it, and let it sort of burn down.

We are just hearing some reports from local affiliates in the area, from KTRK and others, that this is a chemical fire, so authorities being very careful about how they are responding to this.

As you can see, it has spread (UNINTELLIGIBLE) throughout this sort of area. There is heavy smoke there. Because it is dark, it is a little bit hard to tell, but there is a huge plume of black, thick smoke which is now rising high above Houston. And as you can see as this picture pulls out, you really get a sense of the black plume of smoke, how high it is going and how thick it is, not dissipating all that quickly.

Again, a chemical fire in southwest Houston. Emergency personnel are on the scene. Fire personnel have responded. We're going to continue try to gather some information on this and bring you the information and any developments as warranted, as we continue in this hour of 360.

Last night in southern California, an amazing scene, as 87 victims of alleged clergy sex abuse finally got what they were looking for, an apology. What they also got from the diocese (UNINTELLIGIBLE), excuse me, of Orange County was a massive amount of money.

Multiple sources now tell CNN that the payout is in the neighborhood of $100 million, which would make it the largest settlement in the history of the abuse scandal.

CNN's Drew Griffin has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They had suffered at the hands of the church for most of their lives. They had been battling the church in court for two years. But last night, when the apology and the settlement came, they could no longer hold onto their anger.

Those of the diocese of Orange now admitted were victims, abused by 43 different priests, nuns, and church-affiliated people, accepted the church's apology with a hug.

DAVID GUERRERO, ABUSE SURVIVOR: For once, them coming in tonight and settling these cases, and apologizing, and for Bishop Brown saying that he's going to hand-write a letter of apology to each and every victim, I mean, I couldn't stop crying.

GRIFFIN: Bishop Todd Brown also agreed to release documents detailing horrific cases of abuse. Attorney John Manley says it is over. And the sense of relief for him and his clients is overwhelming. JOHN MANLEY, VICTIMS' ATTORNEY: I think it reflects the point that all these people ever wanted was to be believed. And tonight, what you have is a concrete demonstration by him that it did happen, and he's sorry.

GRIFFIN: The settlement remains under a gag order for at least seven days, but sources tell CNN it is in the neighborhood of $100 million, which will be by far the biggest settlement to date in the ever-growing sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church.

Drew Griffin, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, a tragic accident at sea tops our look at what's happening cross-country today.

In rough waters off Puerto Rico, a boat packed with migrants, most from the Dominican Republic, capsized just three hours after it was turned back by Puerto Rican police. U.S. Coast Guard helicopters scooped 83 survivors from the water, carried them to safety, but at least seven people drowned.

Somerville, New Jersey, now, Jayson Williams will get a retrial in March. A state judge rejected defense request to throw out a reckless manslaughter charge against the former NBA star for the 2002 shooting death of his driver. The jurors couldn't reach a verdict on that count earlier this year, but acquitted Williams of a more serious charge.

L.A., California, now, Nick Nolte is sued. Parents of a teenaged girl who was allegedly drugged and raped at Nolte's Malibu home two years ago are suing him for negligence. Nolte's publicist says the actor wasn't at the property at the time of the assault, and adds that the culprit has been held accountable. The crime happened four months after this famous mug shot, of course, taken after Nolte was pulled over for driving under the influence.

And that's a quick look at stories right now cross-country.

Coming up next on 360, was Princess Diana pregnant when her car crashed? And did someone actually plan the accident? It's the conspiracy theory that simply will not go away. Scotland Yard, of course, is investigating. Try to sort out the facts from the fiction, part of our special series tonight.

And they're ready to certify the votes in Ohio. But some say it is too soon, as claims of voter fraud continue. Take a close look at all sides. I'll talk to Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: It's been an interesting week here as we've taken a close look at conspiracy theories. Stories that, for whatever reason, continue to be fueled by rumor and speculation, especially on the Internet.

Tonight, we look at the death of Princess Diana. It has been 7 years since she and her lover, Dodi al Fayed, died in a car crash in Paris. And while the public mourning may be over, the questions still remain. Was it an accident or was foul play involved? And has there been a major coverup by the royal family?

Like most conspiracy theories, the questions lead everywhere and nowhere. So tonight it is up to CNN's Gary Tuchman to pick up the trail.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was an accident. Or was it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think it is accident. I think that it is royal murder.

TUCHMAN: More than 7 years after the tragic death of Princess Diana in a Paris tunnel, there are those who unequivocally believe there was a conspiracy to kill her, including Mohammed al-Fayed, the Egyptian father of her boyfriend Dodi who also died that night in 1997.

MOHAMMED AL FAYED, DODI AL FAYED'S FATHER: I already mentioned it. And I mentioning it all of the time. It is absolute black and white. It is murder.

TUCHMAN: The motive, the British royal family did not want Dodi to be stepfather to the next king. Diana actually wrote a letter to her butler, reported in a British newspaper, that she thought there may be a royal plot to kill her in a car accident.

But even her immediate family has said those were just the words of a sad woman. And they believe her death was accidental.

Most investigators have said most investigators said the same including a lawyer who represented one of the paparazzi implicated in the crash.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no doubt in my mind, and I presume in the judge's mind that there was not a conspiracy but an accident, tragic but an accident.

TUCHMAN: But the conspiracy minded have their they're theories, including that Diana may have been killed by the British Secret Service because she was a threat to the thrown.

Others have declared she may have faked her death to get away from a smothering public.

But it's the Dodi relationship that gets the most mileage where headlines in Egypt just after the crash declared, Diana/Dodi Tragedy Raises Big Question Marks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe one day she got a child. He would be the brother of the British kingdom. You understand? It can't be.

TUCHMAN: It was a fairy tale story which has transitioned into a tale that in so many respects is pitifully sad. Gary Tuchman, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: So, the question: is there any truth to the rumors about Princess Diana's death? Right before the show, I spoke to Thomas Sancton. Now, he is the former Paris bureau chief of "TIME" magazine. He has researched this story in depth. And he recently he did an investigative piece, "the Diana Mysteries" for "Vanity Fair." He is also the author of "Death of a Princess.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Tom, you've investigated this story for a long time on your own. Do you believe in any of the conspiracy theories? Do you think there was a conspiracy to kill Princess Diana?

THOMAS SANCTON, AUTHOR: Anderson, I really don't believe that personally. But what I do believe is that the French investigation left several mysteries unanswered. And that until there are satisfying answers for these questions, people who do believe in conspiracies are going to exploit those ambiguities and those mysteries.

COOPER: Let's go through sort of points by point some of the bigger theories out there. First, let's talk about the blood tests of the driver Henri Paul. There are those who say it was either faked or switched.

SANCTON: The whole mystery is -- revolves around levels of alcohol. And even more troubling, very, very high levels of carbon monoxide in the blood of the driver Henri Paul. His behavior did not -- was not consistent with someone that had levels of alcohol or carbon monoxide that high. He would have been stumbling around.

There was a second set of blood samples drawn. So, it is very difficult to believe that there would be a mistake made twice unless you buy into the idea that everybody involved, the coroner, the police investigators and the police lab and the private lab that analyzed these samples were all involved in a conspiracy. I think that's an awful lot of conspirators.

COOPER: There's also those who say that Princess Diana was pregnant, that she and Dodi Fayed were going to get married. And there were forces within England and the royal party that didn't want a Muslim child in the royal family. There are those who say, look, they purchased a ring the day before the crash. Is there any way to disprove the pregnancy theory?

SANCTON: The pregnancy theory shores up the conspiracy theories and the arguments that people like Mohammed al Fayed. Could you prove that she was not pregnant? Well, the closest thing to a scientific judgment on that came from two of the doctors who were present in the autopsy of Princess Diana which took place in Britain the day after the accident. Both of them say that based on visual inspection of the uterus that there was no visible fetus, that she did not appear to be pregnant.

Fetus that is only several days old or a week or so old would not necessarily be visible. And to date as far as I know as far as any of the evidence that's been made public, or the confidential evidence that I'm aware of, none of them has made any reference to any actual pregnancy test being taken. Therefore, in the absence of a negative result of such a test, I think it is impossible to say absolutely 100 percent with 100 percent certainty that she was not pregnant.

COOPER: Scotland Yard is going to investigate. The investigation is supposed to be complete around the end of 2005. Do you think that investigation will actually put sort of all of these various theories, and there are many more than those we talked about, put them to rest, or is this something that regardless of evidence one way or another people are always going to kind of have questions and look into what they say is a mystery?

SANCTON: The real challenge for Scotland Yard, on the basis of the French investigation, is to try to find answers to a certain number of these mysteries. There are four or five or six mysteries that remain troubling and they continue to fuel conspiracy theories. And they concern the blood sample, they concern the pregnancy issue, they concern the role of the famous white Fiat in the accident. Who was driving it, what happened to it and several other questions.

Unless Scotland Yard can come up with convincing answers to these mysteries, then I think there is no way to ever put an end to the conspiracy theories.

COOPER: Tom, you have done more reporting on this, and more in- depth reporting than just about anyone else and we appreciate you joining us. Tom Sancton, thanks very much.

SANCTON: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: 360 next, breaking news happening right now. A chemical plant fire sending a huge plume of smoke and flames over Houston, Texas. There it is. That's the live shot. We're going to have the very latest when we come back.

Also tonight, the kids who backed Pink Floyd's The Wall say it is payback time. They want their money. That's ahead.

Also in a moment, today's 360's challenge. We'll test how closely you have been following today's news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: An update now on breaking news out of Houston involving a warehouse massive fire. Let's take you there. There you have the live pictures. Reports say the fire is at the Marcus Oil and Chemicals Plant in the southwest part of the city. I'm being told it is near several housing developments. We don't know if there are any injuries or the cause of the explosions at this point. They appear to have leveled at least one building. Fire seems pretty widespread. Both Houston police and firefighters being told to stay back because they're not certain if chemicals are burning in the fire. Marcus Oil and Chemical produces polyethylene waxes, tanker trucks carry it around the country. We'll continue to bring you any updates.

Many of you even those who are Democrats have probably put the November election behind you. Win or lose it is over. Not so fast. This week the Kerry campaign joined a lawsuit to force a recount in Ohio even though it is clear that it will not change anything and the votes will likely be certified on Monday. Then there are the emails and the blogs talking endlessly about how this or that was stolen or hacked or falsified in states across the country. Clearly many people continue to believe that Bush/Cheney were aided in their campaign by hanky-panky. Here's CNN's Adaora Udoji.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These Ohio voters are not convinced President Bush won their state giving him four more years in the White House.

CLIFF ARNEBECK, ATTY., COMMON CAUSE OHIO ALLIANCE FOR DEMOCRACY: Every form of irregularity that you can conceive of seemed to be happening in Ohio in this election.

UDOJI: Helped by Reverend Jesse Jackson the plan to challenge official results to be released Monday and demand a recount even though Senator John Kerry's losing campaign is not contesting the outcome. Ohio election officials say the results are sound.

CARLO LOPARD, SPOKESMAN, OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE: Democrats and Republicans are working together to make sure that they get it right.

UDOJI: It's not just Ohio. Complaints and accusations have flooded onto the Internet and in headlines almost faster than fact checkers can check them. Some theories quickly debunked by fact. The "Boston Globe" reports in North Carolina it initially appeared nearly 4,500 electronic votes had disappeared. Later an election official explained fatigued workers missed a computer signal. It was corrected.

The "New York Times" reported on accusations in Cleveland that there were more votes counted than there were voters. It turned out to be a clerical error. But the Nonpartisan Verified Voting Foundation is looking into reports of more than 37,000 incidents of election irregularities. And the U.S. Election Assistance Commission acknowledges there were glitches across the country. Machines didn't work, workers showed up late, you name it, they're reviewing it all.

DEFOREST SOARIES, ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION: The fact is the election results can be trusted. The margin this year for president was wide enough for us not to believe that any glitches would impact the outcome of the presidential race.

UDOJI: Still three Democratic congressmen have raised more election questions. They have asked the General Accounting Office to look into alleged problems and it is. Adaora Udoji, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: As we said on Monday, Ohio's secretary of state Kenneth Blackwell will certify the results in the voting in his state. We're sure that will not be the end of some of the challenges there. He joins us now from Cincinnati. Thank you for being with us Secretary Blackwell. We appreciate it. The election ended over a month ago. And yet you still haven't certified the vote and your critics are saying that you're trying to narrow the window for a recount in order to make it all but meaningless. Why is it taking so long?

KENNETH BLACKWELL, OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE: They need to take a deep breath and look at historical facts. In 2000 we certified on December 11. In 2002, December 20. We have a very thorough bipartisan process where we go vote for vote on accountability basis and we audit every precinct in the state of Ohio so that we're fully confident that when we certify we have certified every legal ballot that had been cast. We think that the voters of Ohio deserve nothing less than that sort of thorough confidence building process.

COOPER: I want to read you something that Columbus Mayor Michael Coleman who is a Democrat said about you.

He said, quote, "Ken Blackwell is the most partisan secretary of state Ohio has ever had. I have to tell you, I don't know how one can be the co-chair of the Bush presidential campaign while at the same time execute in a fair and impartial manner their duties of secretary of state."

COOPER: Of course you don't hear Democrats complaining about Democratic political operatives who are also on local election boards in Ohio but putting hypocrisy aside, why should people with political ambition be allowed to run and monitor elections, Democrat or Republican?

BLACKWELL: Because we have a very balanced bipartisan system. The parties are deeply embedded in the process.

COOPER: Should they be?

BLACKWELL: Yes. It is a very transparent process. Very open. We have a two-party system in this country. A tremendous history and our system produces free elections with clean results. That is our tradition in the state of Ohio and let me just show you something that should be clear to Mayor Michael Coleman who should be spending more time working on keeping our neighborhoods safe in Columbus and dealing with vacancy rate of downtown.

COOPER: Ouch.

BLACKWELL: The reality is that we have a Democrat who is the head of the Franklin County Board of Elections. He's not just any Democrat. Mr. Anthony is the chairman of the Franklin County Democrat party. But we have Republican chairmen who are in such leadership positions but we have balanced boards that are open and transparent and we produce good results. We have a thorough process. Like I said, we have a history of making sure that we get it right and we have gotten it right and our process for handling provisional ballots has been held up as a model in the country.

COOPER: We're going to have to leave it there. Secretary Blackwell, appreciate you joining us. We'll watch you on Monday.

Coming up next on 360, for Pink Floyd it's just another lawsuit on the wall. Remember that chorus of kids who made their album a classic, well they say they want thousands of dollars in unpaid royalties. Some of them do at least. The story up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: In tonight's "Current," our occasional look at pop culture, a musical milestone this week -- the 25th anniversary of the release of Pink Floyd's "The Wall." Now, like Led Zeppelin's "IV," the Beatles' "Abby Road," "The Wall" continues to be required classic rock listening for teenagers. Rock on!

What helped make the album so unique -- I don't know why I did that -- was the backup vocals of a group of English school kids. Now, back then they told the world "we don't need no education." Now it seems what they really want is a little compensation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHILDREN (singing): We don't need no education.

COOPER (voice-over): When Pink Floyd needed a few more voices for their anti-school anthem, "Another Brick in the Wall Part II," their engineer called on some kids from a local school.

CHILDREN (singing): We don't need no thought control.

COOPER: And with the help of the school's head of music, who got them to the local studio, 23 teens turned into a choir, heard if not seen backing up the Brit band on its best-selling album.

CHILDREN (singing): No dark sarcasm in the classroom.

COOPER: For the amateur adolescent singers of the Islington Green school, rocking out to the rebellious lyrics was, well, a laugh.

TABITHA MELLOR, FORMER SINGER: Sing it as if you're in a football match. We don't need no education. It was all of that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, that's really...

(CROSSTALK)

MELLOR: Yeah, it was really sort of... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that accent, education.

MELLOR: And we (UNINTELLIGIBLE) at the top of our lungs.

COOPER: The album was a hit, selling 23 million copies. But when the band sang the song on Britain's "Top of the Pops," and when "The Wall" was made into a music video, something was missing. The kids were left out in the cold, replaced by students from a local drama school who lip-synched the lines.

CHILDREN (singing): Hey, teacher, leave us kids alone!

COOPER: Pink Floyd pocketed a pile of money from the album. The school got 1,000-pound donation to its music program. That's about $2,000.

And the singing school kids? Well, they got a copy of the album and tickets to a Pink Floyd concert, and not a penny in compensation -- until now. Maybe.

U.K. royalties agent Peter Rowan says a 1996 British law allows session singers to collect royalties even for unpaid work. So he's been trying to track the old kids down.

PETER ROWAN, U.K. ROYALTIES AGENT: It was completely ad hoc. There were no lists, no photos. Nobody ever kept a record of the session.

COOPER: So far, he signed up just one of the singers for the compensation claim, and he's been contacted by seven more. Each of the now 30-somethings could come into some cash, though not much.

ROWAN: It's not a lot. It's enough for a good couple of nights out. One hundred, 150 pounds, what's that? A couple hundred dollars?

COOPER: And while it may not make them rich, the world now knows the one-hit wonders backing up the band behind "The Wall."

CHILDREN (singing): All in all, you're just another brick in the wall.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Of course, we do need an education.

360 next, excuse me. When a disputed election is just a rehash of childhood games? When they're taken to "The Nth Degree."

First, the 360 "Challenge." Here's another look at tonight's questions. Have you been paying attention? Log on to cnn.com/360, click on the answer link to play.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time now for the answers to today's 360 "Challenge." No. 1 -- what was that? Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has held a cabinet post in how many presidential administrations? The answer is three.

Police investigating Michael Jackson conducted a surprise raid today where? Neverland Ranch, of course.

And Orange County Catholic Diocese has settled lawsuits with how many sex abuse victims? Eighty-seven.

The first person to answer all three questions correctly will be sent a 360 shirt. Tune in tomorrow to find out if you're the one. Last night's winner -- Mark Marraccini, from New York City. Another 360 "Challenge." Congratulations, Mark. Another chance to win tomorrow.

Tonight, taking child's play to "The Nth Degree."

So now there's talk in Romania too, as there is in Ukraine, of throwing out the results of the most recent contested election and just holding another one. To tell you the truth, the idea gives us a kind of a warm, nostalgic feeling.

Hey, isn't this exactly what we used to do when we were kids? You remember. We called it the do-over. You just had to say it right away. Do-over, do-over, and whatever had just happened that you didn't care for was completely canceled. Didn't count. Had not in fact actually happened at all. You never spoke of it again.

Seems to us high time that the do-over took its proper place outside the schoolyard in adult and national affairs. Perhaps along with some other useful playground responses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD (chanting): Yushchenko! Yushchenko!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: For instance, if one side in the Ukraine elections preemptive called "no backsies" before the other side called "do- over," well, then the country would just have to live with the results, because, well, that's the power of "no backsies," as everyone knows.

It is right there in the international rule book of nyah-nyah and told you so. Just look it up.

Maybe an election isn't the way to go in this case. Maybe the candidates should just stand next to each other while someone does inka-dink-a-bottle-of-ink. It might work.

I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for watching. Have a great weekend. Coming up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com