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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Is Hillary Clinton Running for President in 2008? Can Rudy Giuliani Win Republican Nomination in 2008?

Aired February 09, 2005 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from New York. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Hillary Clinton, Democrats say she's the one. But is she really positioning herself for a White House run?

360 starts now.

Hillary Clinton, is she really reinventing herself? Conservatives say she's undergoing a political makeover. But is that just right-wing spin? Tonight, a new poll puts new pressure on Hillary to run for the White House.

Police catch an accused cop-killer, a massive manhunt in Florida, hundreds of officers combed the woods for the man they call a killer.

A suburban mom's darkest secret. Why so many desperate housewives are having affairs. Tonight, one woman tells her story of a loveless marriage and an ongoing affair her husband doesn't know about.

And strutting their stuff, young, beautiful, and overpaid supermodels. Does your child have what it takes to become the next queen of the runway?

ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.

COOPER: And good evening again.

We begin tonight with two of the most powerful politicians in America, Hillary Clinton and Rudy Giuliani. According to a new poll, both are their party's front-runners for the White House.

Now, I know, there are almost 1,500 days to go, give or take, until voters elect the next president. But if you think these two aren't already planning, you don't know a thing about politics.

A CNN-"USA Today"-Gallup poll shows Hillary Clinton already easily beats both John Kerry and John Edwards, the two men who made up the ticket just a couple months ago. If you listen closely, you can already hear the rubber chicken being cooked in Iowa and New Hampshire as Democrats and Republicans get ready for the next campaign. Will Clinton run?

CNN's Candy Crowley takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hillary, it is all you need on the door. All you need on the buttons. All you need to start the conversation. Is it Hillary in '08?

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: I am focused on 2006.

CROWLEY: It would be both unwise and unnecessary for her to publicly eye the '08 presidential race, unnecessary because she doesn't need to raise her profile, unwise because she can't be seen as taking her '06 Senate reelection bid for granted.

We are left with tea leaves.

CLINTON: You've made my morning.

CROWLEY: We are talking a first-term senator who has a think tank, a fund-raising committee, and a political action committee which has raised millions for several hundred Democrats. She has scores of still-loyal Clinton administration officials and former campaign aides stashed in various Democratic institutions in Washington and New York.

Oh, and a husband who wants her to run, with a Rolodex to die for.

And now, consider the New York senator's January speech to family planning advocates in Albany.

CLINTON: Our research shows that the primary reason teenaged girls abstain from early sexual activity is because of their religious and moral values. We should embrace this, and support programs that reinforce the idea that abstinence at a young age is not just the smart thing to do, it is the right thing on do.

CROWLEY: And consider her words to a leadership forum in Boston, where she spoke of her own prayers and of "respecting the faith of others and enabling people to live out their faith in the public square." Friend supporters in the Hillary '08 crowd say this is nothing more than Hillary being Hillary, saying things she's has always said, always believed.

Still, red state words in blue state forums have put up antennas across the political spectrum.

BEN SMITH, "NEW YORK OBSERVER": She spent 2,000 when she ran for election the first time here, convincing people that she could represent a Northeast liberal state. And now she's reminding people that she grew up a Republican in the Midwest, that she was the first lady of Arkansas, and she spends a bunch of time up in the bits of New York state that are closer to Ohio than they are to New York City, and...

CROWLEY: It is the beauty and the curse of being Hillary. Everyone assumes she's running for president.

CLINTON: I'm running for reelection to the Senate. I have more than I can say grace over right now. There's just so much work to be done. And, you know, I just have to say that this budget debate is not just about, you know, numbers. It's about values.

CROWLEY: And everything she says is just another tea leaf.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, no one reads tea (UNINTELLIGIBLE) tea leaves better than political commentator and former presidential adviser David Gergen. He joins us tonight.

David, good to see you.

DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Thank you.

COOPER: You know, there is so much talk about Hillary Clinton repositioning herself. American Values president Gary Bauer recently said this. I quote, "I think what we're seeing is, at least rhetorically, the attempt of the ultimate makeover. She clearly wants to sit in the Oval Office. She's a bright lady, and I think she watched her party throw everything, including the kitchen sink, at the president, still lose. She's made her own calculation that values in the broadest sense of the word was the reason for the loss."

Do you see a makeover going on?

GERGEN: I see her in -- she's very consistent what she's always believed. She's always had strong religious faith. She's been a strong Methodist. She does have conservative social values on many issues.

But, of course, she's bringing those to the fore. And I think what's really remarkably interesting, Anderson, is that in the early days of her first ladyhood, she sometimes could be tone-deaf. I think she's shown remarkable progress as a political leader, and in listening more and being able to respond in a better way to the political dialogue.

She's a much, much better politician today than she was half a dozen years ago. And I think that makes her a more formidable candidate.

COOPER: When you say she used to be tone-deaf, I mean, you're talk, are you talking about, like, the, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), I think she referenced, you know, Tammy Wynette standing, she's not going to be standing by her man baking cookies. You wouldn't hear her say that sort of thing today. GERGEN: Well, I, you know, I had the experience of working with the Clintons in the White House. And I, you know, I think it was always understood that her husband had perfect pitch. I mean, he is, he's like Tony Blair. He, you know, he, he, it's in it, politics is in his fingernails.

Hillary was always much more the person about principle and about policy. But (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the politics of things did not necessarily come as easily to her. She wasn't as natural in the political sphere as she was on -- and she was very strong and very authentic, I thought, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) strongly rooted in principles, and I think very strong on policy.

But she was, she sometimes could be a little tone-deaf on politics. I think that's changed. She's shown a, you know, this, these speeches she's made recently, she was able to build bridges across the abortion divide that nobody else on the, on the Democratic Party, the progressive side of politics, is able, been able to build.

And that's a (UNINTELLIGIBLE), that's a real talent. That's an acquired talent. And, you know, she's very popular in the state of New York. She is much more popular in New York than, by the way, than she is around the countryside. She's still a polarizing figure around the countryside.

COOPER: Well, that's the thing. I mean, there, a lot of conservatives who, you know, relish the idea of Hillary Clinton running for the White House, you know, another northeastern, relatively liberal person trying to get to the White House. Is that what the Democratic Party can put their hopes in?

GERGEN: Well, it's not what they should be putting their hopes in right now. And as you said earlier on, I mean, you know, talking about Hillary now is a bit like saying there are 350 shopping days left till Christmas. You know, it's way too early to be saying this.

She's got a big race coming up in New York. It looks like she's going to win going away in New York. The Republicans have not been able to find a formidable candidate. She would beat, according to the recent poll, she would beat Rudy Giuliani in New York. She would beat Governor Pataki by a wide margin. They don't, they haven't got anybody to run against her. She's got to get past that.

If the election were held today, if there were a national election held today, I don't think there's any doubt Hillary would lose, and lose big-time. I can't think of a single red state that would go blue with her on the ticket. One can think of several blue states that might go red.

But with the big victory in 2006 in New York, and a lot of things can happen between 2000 -- between now and 2008, does she have time to build herself into a formidable national candidate and be very viable in some of the red states? Yes, she certainly has that time. Is it a high probability that will all happen? No. But in our politics, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) our politics right now are very fluid. If George W. Bush has a bad second term, and he, and, you know, he's off to an uneven start, better start in Iraq than what anybody thought, but very uneven on the domestic side, especially Social Security and these budget deficits.

And if the economy were to turn sour, then the Democrats would have a real shot in 2008. Historically, when a president runs for reelection, he wins. But historically, when he finishes that second term, the out party historically has won. So the Democrats have a real shot in 2008 if history, you know, pairs itself out again.

COOPER: It is going to be a fascinating race, no doubt about it.

GERGEN: Absolutely.

COOPER: David Gergen, thanks very much.

GERGEN: Thank you.

COOPER: Appreciate it.

Among Republicans, the new poll results are good news for Rudy Giuliani, as we said. Former New York mayor is ahead of Senator John McCain by 5 percentage points. But look at the bottom, 7 percent. That's pretty good early showing for someone else. We should keep an eye on him, or her, perhaps.

Especially because, as CNN's Kelly Wallace reports, there are some real obstacles facing Rudy Giuliani. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Oh, how he dodges.

RUDOLPH GIULIANI (R), FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: We got to get out of 2004 first.

WALLACE: OK. It's 2005, and the normally matter-of-fact Rudy Giuliani still won't answer the question.

GIULIANI: I don't think we start thinking about the next one until some time from now.

WALLACE: That hasn't stopped Republicans in CNN's latest poll from declaring him the current front-runner for '08, with his rock- star status following his handling of the September 11 attacks.

He is a maverick of sorts. After all, he's for abortion rights, gay marriage, and gun control.

STEPHEN MOORE, PRESIDENT, FREE ENTERPRISE FUND: In some ways, in social issues, Rudy Giuliani is more of a Democrat than he is a Republican.

WALLACE: And to that, cultural conservatives say, Houston, we have a problem.

MATTHEW STAVER, PRESIDENT, LIBERTY COUNSEL: The only way Rudy Giuliani can win is if, in fact, he has a true conversion on the issue of marriage, he becomes pro-life, he supports the sanctity of human life, and he's strong on those issues...

WALLACE: But could his crowd-pleasing performance at the Republican National Convention...

GIULIANI: The president of the United States, George W. Bush.

WALLACE: ... his stumping for President Bush, and his razzle- dazzle celebrity lead conservatives to look past their differences?

Maybe, says Michael Daly, a columnist for the "New York Daily News," who has covered Rudy for years and was at the GOP convention.

MICHAEL DALY, COLUMNIST, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": It's interesting (UNINTELLIGIBLE) you talk, you'll be talking to some guy from Texas who, you know, is pro-life, you know, anti-gay, and you say to him, you say, Well, you know, this is a guy who's pro-choice, who lived with two gay guys for a while. They look at you like, So what?

WALLACE: The gay men were his friends, by the way, who put him up after his separation.

And then there is this.

GIULIANI: Get lost. That's a, that, that's a, that's a, that's a sneaky way of trying to invade somebody's personal life.

WALLACE: City Hall sparing with the New York City press is one thing. But could he handle the scrutiny of a national race?

(on camera): To all of this, Giuliani's spokeswoman says the former mayor is focused on his business and not on presidential politics at the moment, those last three words, of course, leaving all of us political junkies wondering just what the future may hold.

Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: It's coming up next on 360, a man accused of gunning down three sheriff's deputies. Find out how the manhunt for this suspect ended just a short time ago.

Plus, why did a White House reporter suddenly quit? Was he a presidential plant, or simply a conservative reporter targeted by liberals? We're covering all the angles.

Also tonight, seeing Jesus on a wall. Hundreds of people are flocking to this house. You're going to see for yourself the mark they say is a miracle.

All that ahead. First, your picks, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: There was an intense manhunt today in Florida for a suspect with a gun and a gripe, a man wanted for domestic abuse, who's accused of shooting and killing a sheriff's deputy who confronted him. The suspect was able to run for a while. But in the end, he could not hide from the massive manhunt.

Reporter Erick Von Ancken from our affiliate WKMG is on the scene tonight. It was a pretty dramatic day. Take us through it.

ERICK VON ANCKEN, REPORTER, WKMG-TV: Yes, and a pretty dramatic end, too, Anderson.

In fact, I'm standing at one of the schools here. You can see the gate behind me. This was the elementary school that was locked down. There were two today when this started early morning. They didn't want anyone coming in or out because they say the suspect, Jason Wheeler, was just so dangerous.

This was about 8:00 a.m. this morning when deputies got a call of domestic disturbance. They went to the house, and that's when Wheeler allegedly came out and opened fire, as you say, on three deputies, killing one of them. The other two were shot in the leg.

Well, that's when the manhunt started. Wheeler allegedly took off on a motorbike, sped through this wooded area where we are. This is Lake County, it's about an hour north of the Orlando area, so lots of lakes, lots of woods, and lots of swamps.

According to deputies, he was hiding out in these woods. He's a hunter, he's a marksman, allegedly. So they had to be prepared for this guy. We saw these deputies out here with machine guns, shotguns.

According to deputies, the deputy that was shot and killed was shot by a shotgun. That's why they knew that Wheeler had this shotgun. They chased him into the woods, at one point using air boats. They had canines on these airboats looking for Wheeler.

They found him about an hour and a half ago at this point in some of the woods. And he predicted that there would be a firefight. He told neighbors, according to some of the folks we talked to, that he would not go down without a fight. And apparently that is what happened.

He was shot again this afternoon when deputies tried to pick him up. We don't know where. We watched some of the video. Apparently shot somewhere critical, because that's what the situation is now. He's in the hospital in critical shape.

And, of course, you can bet as soon as he comes back or survives this, he will be charged with first-degree murder, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Erick Von Ancken, appreciate it. Thanks very much. The pope's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) public Ash Wednesday services. That tops our look at what's happening around the world in the uplink.

Take you to Rome, Italy, now. For the first time in his 26-year papacy, Pope John Paul II did not preside over Ash Wednesday services at St. Peter's basilica. Said the pope, who is still recovering from a respiratory infection, celebrated the beginning of the Lenten season in his hospital room.

Carera (ph), Colombia, now, Jesus on the wall. Take a look at that. Hundreds of people are visiting a house where they believe the image of Jesus has appeared inside. The homeowner's sister says she found the image on a wall that had been sanded down to paint.

Across China now, the rooster crows. Today officially marks the start of the Chinese New Year. Tens of thousands of people are visiting temples to pray for good fortune. My personal favorite video of the day, however, is this. There it is. It's a festival in Beijing celebrating the rooster. And at many homes, there are family feasts and gift exchanges. I have one of those costumes at my house as well.

We take you now to Bremen, Germany, and some gay penguins. I don't know we're looking at right here. (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We should block this out. German zookeepers have discovered that many of their penguins have been living in homosexual relationships. They've had little luck procreating, obviously, and have now imported four female penguins, hoping, they say, to interest the zoo's male penguins. Let us hope ze lady penguins are used to rejection.

That is a quick look at tonight's uplink.

360 next, deciding the fate of Michael Jackson. Revealing questions and answers from potential jurors.

Plus, why did this White House reporter suddenly quit? Was he a presidential plant, as some are saying, or simply a conservative reporter targeted by liberals? We're covering all the angles tonight.

And a little later, much lighter subject, how to become a supermodel. Does your kid have what it takes? Find out from a woman who picks them all.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: In justice served tonight, Michael Jackson. We know a lot about him, certainly. But what about the men and women who may decide his fate? Each potential juror for the upcoming trial has to answer 42 questions. And what they write down may speak volumes about how they will decide.

We have some of their responses tonight for the first time.

For that, we turn to CNN's Ted Rowlands. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Almost 20 percent of the potential jurors who will decide Michael Jackson's fate say they've been exposed to some sort of inappropriate sexual behavior. Forty-five of the 242 questionnaires we received had an answer of yes to the question, "Have you or any relative or close friend ever been the victim of inappropriate sexual behavior?" Twenty-five people, more than 10 percent, answered that they or someone they knew had been accused of it.

Women outnumber men 135 to 107. Ninety-two potential jurors are over the age of 50, and the vast majority list English as their primary language.

One of the issues still unresolved in this case is if the judge will allow the details from the 1993 and '94 sexual abuse allegations against Jackson in as evidence. More than 60 percent of the potential jurors said they'd read or heard something about that.

More than 25 percent of the jury pool answered that they knew someone who had met Jackson or had been to his Neverland ranch. Attorneys for both sides have hired jury consultants to help pore over these questionnaires next week. The attorneys will ask follow-up questions to the potential jurors face to face, with Michael Jackson and possibly members of his family in the courtroom.

Ted Rowlands, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, potential jurors are not the only ones answering questions about Michael Jackson right now. Former child actor turned reality show curiosity Corey Feldman is talking about his childhood relationship with the singer. He tells ABC News, quote, "I started looking at each piece of information, and with that came this sickening realization that there have been many occurrences in my life and in my relationship to Michael that have created a question of doubt."

Frankly, I've read that statement about a dozen times now, and I still have no idea what he means.

Dramatic rescue video to show you. That tops our look at what's happening right now cross-country.

The waters off Massachusetts, the Coast Guard rescued three fishermen from a sinking boat. The men, aboard the 38-foot boat, called "Hollywood," radioed for help this afternoon, saying the boat was sinking. Coast Guard helicopter brought the men to safety. No one was injured.

Seattle, Washington, now, the FBI is looking for a bank robber. They have nicknamed him the "Can You Hear Me Now" Bandit, because he's always on his cell phone. He apparently likes to hit banks located inside large grocery and department stores. And Miami Beach, Florida, now, tennis star Anna Kournikova stalked by a homeless man who apparently had his addresses mixed up. This guy, police say he was arrested breaking into a home he thought was Kournikova's. It was actually a neighbor's home a couple of doors down.

St. Louis, Missouri, now, quadriplegic attorney wants his chance to be hired or told he's fired on Donald Trump's hit show "The Apprentice." He is suing, claiming auditions violate federal law by requiring excellent physical health for all contestants.

That's a quick look at stories right now cross-country.

A White House reporter quits as questions are raised about who he really worked for. Was he a White House plant, or just a conservative reporter caught up in controversy?

A suburban mom's darkest secret. Why so many desperate housewives are having affairs. Tonight, one woman tells her story of a loveless marriage and an ongoing affair her husband doesn't know about.

And strutting their stuff, young, beautiful, and overpaid supermodels. Does your child have what it takes to become the next queen of the runway?

360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The top 25 medical stories that shaped our health and changed our lives during CNN's first 25 years. We asked top medical experts to come up with a list.

Here's numbers 15 through 11.

Number 15, anthrax. In 2001, five postal workers die and 22 others become ill after handling anthrax-laced letters.

DR. THOMAS INGLESBY, CENTER FOR BIOSECURITY: think it changed the way we think about biological weapons, about terrorism, forever.

GUPTA: At number 14, gene therapy. In 1990, the first federally approved gene therapy treatment is performed on a child with an immune disorder.

Nip and tuck to number 13, cosmetic surgery. A new report by the American Society of Plastic Surgeons found that cosmetic surgery procedures in the United States performed in 2003 nearly tripled the number performed in 1997.

Moving to number 12, in 2001, the low-carb diet craze erupts, as the sales of these diet foods increased by $100 million. At number 11, Fen-Phen. The powerful diet drug combination was recalled in 1997 after being linked to heart problems.

Stay tuned as we continue our countdown to number one.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: A White House reporter resigned today after becoming the target of interest by bloggers and some liberal groups. They made a number of allegations about his personal life, but the issue that brought him to attention in the first place was his professionalism.

His name is Jeff Gannon. He worked for a Web site called Talon News. And has regularly attended him White House briefs. That's him there asking a question. He asked questions of both spokesman and also the president.

His questions, however, were often less than combative. In the wake of the revelation that the administration paid at least one pundit to promote his policy, some reporters began to wondering what Jeff Gannon's agenda was? Was he a real reporter? Or sort of a White House plant? Tonight, CNN's Kathleen Koch Takes us behind the headlines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's been a regular at White House press briefings for the last 2 years, but the man who calls him Jeff Gannon has drawn a flurry of criticism especially since he asked a question at a January presidential press conference that appeared to criticized Democratic lawmakers.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, sir?

JEFF GANNON, TALON NEWS: Hilary Clinton was talking about the economy being on the verge of collapse. Yet in the same breath, they say that Social Security is rock solid and there's no crisis there. How are you going to work? You said you will reach out to these people. How are you going to work with people who seem to have divorced themselves from reality?

KOCH: News organizations, watch dog groups and Internet blog's quickly investigated claiming that TalonNews.com, which Gannon writes for is operated by a Texas-based Republican Party delegate and political activist. They raised questions about Gannon's real name and his background.

Democratic Congresswoman Louise Slaughter fired off a letter to the president asking whether Gannon was being allowed in as a quote, tool of propaganda to lob softball questions.

REP. LOUISE SLAUGHTER, (D) HOUSE CMTE. ON RULES: The fact that they credentialed him when he wouldn't comment is an indication that they wanted him in. They knew who he was. If they were willing to go that far to fool us, then I think that some remedy somewhere has got to be sought.

KOCH: The White House says it never issued Gannon a regular White House credential. It did allow him to enter on daily passes. Spokesman Scott McClellan saying it's not the White House's role it decide who is or is not a real journalist.

Gannon never hid his political views. On his Web site calling himself quote, "A conservative journalist imbedded with the liberal Washington press corps."

He's now shut down the Web site and resigned saying quote, "because of the attention being paid to me, I find it is no longer possible to effectively be a reporter for Talon News. In consideration of the welfare of me and my family, I have decided to return to private life."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOCH: Many journalists who cover the White House say having such partisans in their ranks does make them uncomfortable. But in a press corps where increasing number of journalists cater to specialized audiences, they also worry about the enforceability of a litmus test of impartiality -- Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, litmus test. Hard thing to do. Thank you very much, Kathleen.

Liberal groups are saying this guy shouldn't have gotten a press pass, conservatives groups are saying this is a witch hunt, politically motivated. And we don't take sides on 360. We like to cover all of the angles.

We asked the White House to respond tonight, they said no. We asked someone from Talon News. They declined as well.

Joining me from Washington, Congresswoman Louise Slaughter, a Democrat from New York who today, as you just heard in that report, sent a letter to President Bush asking him to explain how Jeff Gannon was credentialed as a member of the media by the White House.

Congresswoman, I appreciate you joining us.

SLAUGHTER: Well, I am glad to be here Anderson.

COOPER: Let me ask you, though, why shouldn't Jeff Gannon be a credentialed reporter? There are plenty of liberals asking questions to the president?

SLAUGHTER: Why should he be? I know the White House statement is that they don't have any role to play in credentialing reporters, but the House gallery press gallery, as well as the Senate gallery, they do have.

COOPER: But he works for a Web site that's been around for a while, whether you like it or not, whether it's conservative or not.

SLAUGHTER: I don't care about that. That doesn't bother me a bit. I don't care about the man's personal life or anything else. But for 18 years in Congress, I have been trying to fight for some fairness and some decency in the media.

There has been a special bond between the citizens of this country and the people who deliver the news. Think about Cronkite and Severeid and others that this administration has broken. It is a pattern. This man is part of the pattern of Armstrong Williams and the 3 or 4 others, and who knows how many who have been paid to shell for this White House.

COOPER: I hate to argue with you. I hate to argue with you, but since White House didn't come on or anyone else from Talon News come on, I have to argue -- I know that you know.

SLAUGHTER: It's fine with me.

It's a little hard to argue, isn't.

COOPER: Not so much the White House who broken the bond, that the media has done a good job breaking that bond as well. Why shouldn't be there a conservative reporter asking questions, though, just as there are liberal reporters?

SLAUGHTER: It doesn't matter he's a conservative reporter. The question is, is he a reporter? In addition to that...

COOPER; Are you concerned about other people in the White House? Have you looked at the list of other reporters who are there?

SLAUGHTER: Well, let me make a point here to show you that Mr. Gannon is different with the White House. According to the Washington Post, he was the only person known to have access to a CIA secret document about the case of Valerie Plane. And when he and his capacity whatever he calls it, questioned Mr. Wilson, he made reference to that document and has now been subpoenaed. I don't -- this is -- shows to me this that this is a man who has extraordinarily good White House credentials.

COOPER: So do you think he's was a plant...

SLAUGHTER: ...they knew who he was. And frankly, today...

Yes, I do.

COOPER: You think the White House put him there pause they wanted softball questions?

SLAUGHTER: Of course. If they credential anybody who shows up for the daily briefing who just shows up the door, I hope 11,000 show up next time. If that's all takes...

COOPER: I am sorry, I just want to put his statement on to get some response from this guy. He said, quote, "I am admittedly a conservative journalist, and that point of view is not represented in the briefing room at all. Other White House reporters come from a decidedly liberal perspective, certainly left of center. Call me partisan, fine, but let my colleagues off the hood. They're partisan too, but they don't admit it."

SLAUGHTER: I don't believe that. Oh, that's the last refuge of a rascal. That's all he has to say.

But let me tell you, we need to demand more than this. I don't want to be fed propaganda from this White House. I don't want people to be paid to give it to me.

COOPER: I hear you.

SLAUGHTER: We deserve the facts, or this democracy will suffer.

COOPER: Congressman Slaughter, we appreciate you joining us. I don't think anyone wants propaganda. We want some facts. We want the truth.

SLAUGHTER: Well, I sure hope so. I would like to see some.

COOPER: All right. So would we. Thanks very much, Congresswoman, appreciate it.

Back in the White House press room today, the subject of the day was money, specifically the cost the new Medicare prescription drug benefit today. Today, Bush administration released estimates indicating the benefit would cost $723 billion over its first decade. That's more than $300 billion higher than the estimate presented when Congress approved the measure. The question is, how does spokesman Scott McClellan defend the new numbers? You know, it's all about sticking to the talking points. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): Talking point No. 1: life's not a box of chocolates. It's a basket of fruit.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think some of the reports today are comparing apples and oranges mixing apples and oranges and apples to oranges comparison. That's not apples to apples.

COOPER: Talking point No. 2: think big picture overall.

MCCLELLAN: It shows lower overall Medicare projections. The overall projections. The overall cost for Medicare, the overall cost for Medicare are -- less overall cost projections for Medicare. The overall cost to Medicare, the projection are coming down.

COOPER: Talking point No. 3: it's all about steps.

MCCLELLAN: Take additional steps. To take additional steps. There will be additional steps. Additional steps. Additional steps. That's an important step. COOPER: Talking point No. 4: clear as a bell.

MCCLELLAN: That was spelled out very clearly. We were very clear. But the president made it very clear. We made it very clear. And it spells out very clearly. The president's made that very clear. But we were very clear. And we have made very clear.

COOPER: Let's hope that's all clear.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Clear as a bell.

360 next, the secret lives of suburban wives. One wife who doesn't want to reveal her identity tells why she is having an affair. It's a fascinating discussion. Part of our special series "Family Secrets."

Also tonight, who is and who isn't model material? I know, it's a burning question. We take you behind the scenes of New York's fashion week. Could your child be a model? A lot of kids want to be. We'll talk about that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, there's a new twist on an age-old family secret. Extramarital affairs. It's not just men anymore. Not hardly. According to one survey, the rate of women committing adultery is now approaching that of men, 50 percent. In our special series tonight, they are willing to talk about it.

Take for example a woman you're about to meet. A married suburban woman we will call Mrs. F. She is 48, mother of two. Although she has no intention of leaving her marriage, about ten years into it, she started an affair. When I spoke with her, she insisted on being in shadow and having her voice disguised. You can understand the reasons but she wasn't shy about discussing her secret life.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: You've been married for more than a dozen years. You have children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

COOPER: How did the affair begin?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The affair was with a man who've I've known since I was a teenager. And we've always been good friends and very close. An actual physical affair wasn't planned or -- but, it was really wonderful. It was passionate, it was loving. It was someone who I cared for deeply.

COOPER: Was it a response to this man in particular? Or was it -- was something lacking in your marriage? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it was definitely in response to this man, however. The marriage -- it's not a very happy one. We have a family. We have all of these things in common. The community. The bills. The house. But yet we really don't have emotional intimacy, we don't have each other in common. We don't share a lot about each other, with each other. It's been that way for a very long time.

COOPER: So you thought about divorce.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Initially, it made me feel that I wanted to get out of the marriage and have this all the time. There's part of me that feels, well, maybe all marriages turn into this to some degree.

COOPER: I guess, it doesn't it make it harder, it doesn't make it easier to live the life that you're living day in, day out?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the things that made it easier was sort a reaffirmation of myself. Feeling -- I didn't just feel like the mommy anymore or the housewife.

COOPER: You said that being a loyal devoted wife is very different than practicing fidelity. How so?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I take good care of him I think in the sense that I'm -- you know, I champion him and I help him with things that he needs and workwise and his family. We just happen to not be a very good match for each other.

COOPER: Do you worry -- I know that you worry that the kids would find out. Do you worry what they will think? Will it change the way they think about you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I would feel that they would perhaps be disappointed. What I worry more is what I feel they don't see. They don't see a married couple that's constantly either lovey dovey or I think very connected.

COOPER: Some people who are watching may say, well, why don't you just make a choice? Either leave the husband or stay with him and try to work on it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just feels right now that it would be impossible. It wouldn't -- it wouldn't really solve anything. Well, yes, I would be out of the marriage but if so many people weren't happy particularly the children, I wouldn't be getting anymore happiness from that. That would truly be what would make me most unhappy.

COOPER: Well, thanks for talking. I know it's a very difficult thing for you. We appreciate you coming in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're welcome.

(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Mrs. F. who just heard from is one of 26 women interviewed in revealing new book about women who are either having affairs on their husbands or thinking about it. The book is called "To Love, Honor, and Betray, the Secret Life of Suburban Wives."

Joining me now are the co-authors, Stephanie and Adrianne Lopez. I appreciate both of you being with us.

Mrs. F., as we'll call her, is she common among the women you talk to?

STEPHANIE GERTLER, CO-AUTHOR, "TO LOVE, HONOR & BETRAY": I think that she is typical of many of the women that we spoke with. She's married. She has children. She doesn't want to break up her home.

COOPER: I think a lot of people would see that and say, she should make a choice.

GERTLER: She can't make the choice right now, she has young children. Even women with older children feel that the choice is very difficult to make. It's very difficult to dissolve a marriage and not just dissolving a marriage, you're dissolving a union that includes his family, her family. Friend, community.

ADRIENNE LOPEZ, CO-AUTHOR, "TO LOVE, HONOR & BETRAY": I don't think that people have an intention to break up their families. They want to try to keep it together. I don't think -- they want to have an affair to fill some need they're missing, some passion or possibly some emotional need that they're missing and they just don't want to upset the entire family.

COOPER: Do you think that more women are having affairs now or we're just hearing about it more.

GERTLER: No, I don't think -- I think that we are hearing about it more, I think that they're more forthcoming and I also think that we're serving women more than in society...

COOPER: Because there are those who say because more women are in the workplace, that's where a lot of affairs begin. That's why the numbers...

LOPEZ: You know, nobody really talked about it, Anderson. I think -- when a husband goes to work, a wife -- the secretary might say, oh, my gosh, your tie looks so great or you look so handsome or you lost some weight. He's still getting some type of adulation when he goes into his office. But the woman who may be still at home, she is just missing there and I think this is something that helps her to fulfill that.

GERTLER: But interestingly the 26 women we interviewed were not primarily stay-at-home women. They were all professional women save maybe one or two. And I don't think that this was a question with them of not getting praise necessarily at home. I think that it was just purely something that had to do with them with their marriage. COOPER: I mean, obviously you try to be nonjudgmental when you interview these people but is there something that you personally learned about how to try to prevent affairs? People are listening, wives or husbands. What can someone do to try to stop this from happening?

GERTLER: We're very adamant about the fact that we're advocates and we're also not condemning this. I don't think it's really a question of stopping somebody from having an affair. These women feel very strongly that there's a justification for their actions. They have a very profound sense of entitlement.

COOPER: But is there something that you learned, that keep thinking, well, one should always keep the flame alive or figure out ways? How do you prevent it from happening?

GERTLER: I think communication and reinventing the marriage.

LOPEZ: Communication and paying attention. I think a lot of times women are sometimes starved when their husbands come home, they're there taking care of the family. Even if they do go out into the workplace. When they come home, they're still taking care of the family. And I think that they need to just talk and the husband just maybe needs to grab her hand or do something to make her feel special or like they felt when they first got together and there was this romantic whirlwind when they first got together.

COOPER: It's hard to keep that going.

LOPEZ: It is hard to keep that going but I think it can be kept going.

GERTLER: I think it's also very much a two-way street. And I think that -- I mean, any marriage counselor will tell you that men and women hear things differently. They listen differently and I think it's very important that in talking about this that we don't point a finger at the guys too much. Yes, sure, the women want -- we want our hands held but we have to hold your hand, too.

COOPER: It's a fascinating look and a lot of women interviewed in this book, really interesting insights. The book is "To Love, Honor, and Betray, the Secret Lives of Suburban Wives." Thanks for being with us.

All this week we're going to be looking at some of the family secrets many families across America have. Thursday: well secret life of a porn addict. And on Friday, you're going to meet a woman who is a stripper, doesn't want her family to know about it. Interesting look at why people keep secrets.

Coming up next on 360, what it takes to be a top model on the catwalk. A lot of kids out there would like to be this. Not sure their parents want their kids to be that, but you never know. We'll take you inside New York's fashion week.

Also a little later, flying the cheap way. We're not talking discount tickets. You are never going to guess what they're taking out of the airlines now. You thought it couldn't get any worse. It's getting worse. We'll tell you about that in the Nth Degree ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: So for those of you who believe that clothes make a person and if you do, I feel sorry for you, there is probably no better place to be right now than in New York City where it is fashion week. The clothes on display here are dazzling, so are the models wearing them. And as CNN's Alina Cho report, they're not just pretty faces.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some of the hottest names on the cat walk this season are not designers, but models. Take 21-year-old Michelle Buswell. Marilyn Gauthier discovered her.

MARILYN GAUTHIER, FOUNDER, MARILYN INC.: Michelle's beautiful. She's like a very all-American in one way, you know? She's tall, blond, but she has something very unusual in the face.

CHO: That something unusual is what Marilyn is known for at her namesake modeling agency, without posts in New York, Paris and Brazil, Marilyn represents some of the biggest names in the business. Naomi Campbell, Helena Christensen and model turned fashion icon Kate Moss.

GAUTHIER: When I meet Moss, she was not even 16-years-old.

CHO: At the time, other modeling agency didn't want Kate. She was too short. Marilyn saw things a bit differently.

GAUTHIER: The way she was moving. She was so natural. It was so modern. Everybody like wow.

CHO: Back in the '80s, Marilyn also worked out a deal between French model Lanez de la Fransaunge (ph) and Chenille, the country's first big modeling contract. So how does she know who has it and who doesn't it?

We asked Marilyn about some of her new models and what caught her eye.

First up Russian model Ruse Lana, who's dominating feature is her hair down her knees.

GAUTHIER: It was like a painting from renaissance. You know, it -- absolutely gorgeous.

CHO: Then there's Cynthia, the Brazilian Marilyn calls the next Bridget Bordeaux.

GAUTHIER: Ah the lips. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

CHO: But Marilyn says it takes much more than just long limbs and looks to be a top model, it takes personality. Just ask Marilyn's right-hand Kwok Chan who travels the country looking for new talent and says real beauty comes from within.

KWOK CHAN, DIR. DEVELOPMENT, MARILYN INC.: It's somebody that I want to spend more than five minutes, you know.

CHO: Marilyn says Michelle Buswell has it, and for the record, this six foot blond calls it a dream come true.

Alina Cho, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Did they just say real beauty comes from within?

While that may be true, you don't see really inner beauty on the cat walk. I don't know. At least, that's my opinion. Now let's find out what's coming up at the top of the hour on "PAULA ZAHN NOW."

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Anderson. Defiance, no apologizes from University of Colorado Professor Ward Churchill who compared some 9/11 victims to Nazis. Well, now Churchill is attacking Colorado's governor. The governor wants him fired, and the governor will be joining us tonight.

Also, as more U.S. soldiers head to Iraq, does the White House have a plan to get them out? We're going to look at that coming up with a number of generals, Anderson. They have an interesting take on all of it of this.

COOPER: All right, Paula, that's about five minutes. Thanks very much, Paula.

ZAHN: Thank you.

COOPER: doming up next on 360, you thought it couldn't get any worse on airplanes. It's getting worse. Well, they're about to take away something. We'll tell you about that in "The Nth Degree," ahead. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: My favorite video of the day from Beijing, it's year of the rooster. Let's celebrate everyone in chicken suits. All right -- or rooster suits I should say.

Time to check on some of our "Viewer Mail."

Marla Gaspard, of Kenner, Louisiana, took issue with my saying yesterday that New Orleans smelled of beer and urine during Mardi Gras. "Mardi Gras is celebrated not only in the French Quarter but in the suburbs. The parades in these areas attract families. I have to disagree with Anderson Cooper's comments about the beer and urine during Mardi Gras. That only occurs in the French Quarter." Point taken.

But of course, she is a New Yorker. You can send us your thoughts anytime, cnn.com/360. Just click on the instant feedback link.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Tonight taking cost cutting to "The Nth Degree." OK, so guess what American Airlines is giving up for lent? Well, all right, not for lent. It's probably just a coincidence that the announcement came out today on Ash Wednesday at the beginning of the season of sacrifice. Anyway, the little luxury American Airlines have decided to folk go as a money-saving measure is that hanky-sized bit of a stuffed rectangle the stewardess gives you to put behind your head, yes. Except on the longest flight, no more pillows. This strategy will save the airline upward of $375,000. Sure, we're tough. We don't need no stinking pillows. Hey, we don't really need the seats either. If the hardwood floor of a Conestoga wagon was good enough for our pioneer ancestors and then the nice cushy carpet of jumbo jets fuselage should be good enough for us. Come to think of it, what's wrong with bare metal, carpet doesn't grow on trees you know. And what are we babies, having to press our noses up against that fake expensive glass all the time. There really isn't anything out there to see anyway. Do away with the windows while you're at, and save a bundle.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: It started with the food, now it's the pillows, soon it will be the windows, mark my words. That's it for now. Thanks very much for watching. "PAULA ZAHN NOW" is next -- Paula.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired February 9, 2005 - 19:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from New York. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Hillary Clinton, Democrats say she's the one. But is she really positioning herself for a White House run?

360 starts now.

Hillary Clinton, is she really reinventing herself? Conservatives say she's undergoing a political makeover. But is that just right-wing spin? Tonight, a new poll puts new pressure on Hillary to run for the White House.

Police catch an accused cop-killer, a massive manhunt in Florida, hundreds of officers combed the woods for the man they call a killer.

A suburban mom's darkest secret. Why so many desperate housewives are having affairs. Tonight, one woman tells her story of a loveless marriage and an ongoing affair her husband doesn't know about.

And strutting their stuff, young, beautiful, and overpaid supermodels. Does your child have what it takes to become the next queen of the runway?

ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.

COOPER: And good evening again.

We begin tonight with two of the most powerful politicians in America, Hillary Clinton and Rudy Giuliani. According to a new poll, both are their party's front-runners for the White House.

Now, I know, there are almost 1,500 days to go, give or take, until voters elect the next president. But if you think these two aren't already planning, you don't know a thing about politics.

A CNN-"USA Today"-Gallup poll shows Hillary Clinton already easily beats both John Kerry and John Edwards, the two men who made up the ticket just a couple months ago. If you listen closely, you can already hear the rubber chicken being cooked in Iowa and New Hampshire as Democrats and Republicans get ready for the next campaign. Will Clinton run?

CNN's Candy Crowley takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hillary, it is all you need on the door. All you need on the buttons. All you need to start the conversation. Is it Hillary in '08?

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: I am focused on 2006.

CROWLEY: It would be both unwise and unnecessary for her to publicly eye the '08 presidential race, unnecessary because she doesn't need to raise her profile, unwise because she can't be seen as taking her '06 Senate reelection bid for granted.

We are left with tea leaves.

CLINTON: You've made my morning.

CROWLEY: We are talking a first-term senator who has a think tank, a fund-raising committee, and a political action committee which has raised millions for several hundred Democrats. She has scores of still-loyal Clinton administration officials and former campaign aides stashed in various Democratic institutions in Washington and New York.

Oh, and a husband who wants her to run, with a Rolodex to die for.

And now, consider the New York senator's January speech to family planning advocates in Albany.

CLINTON: Our research shows that the primary reason teenaged girls abstain from early sexual activity is because of their religious and moral values. We should embrace this, and support programs that reinforce the idea that abstinence at a young age is not just the smart thing to do, it is the right thing on do.

CROWLEY: And consider her words to a leadership forum in Boston, where she spoke of her own prayers and of "respecting the faith of others and enabling people to live out their faith in the public square." Friend supporters in the Hillary '08 crowd say this is nothing more than Hillary being Hillary, saying things she's has always said, always believed.

Still, red state words in blue state forums have put up antennas across the political spectrum.

BEN SMITH, "NEW YORK OBSERVER": She spent 2,000 when she ran for election the first time here, convincing people that she could represent a Northeast liberal state. And now she's reminding people that she grew up a Republican in the Midwest, that she was the first lady of Arkansas, and she spends a bunch of time up in the bits of New York state that are closer to Ohio than they are to New York City, and...

CROWLEY: It is the beauty and the curse of being Hillary. Everyone assumes she's running for president.

CLINTON: I'm running for reelection to the Senate. I have more than I can say grace over right now. There's just so much work to be done. And, you know, I just have to say that this budget debate is not just about, you know, numbers. It's about values.

CROWLEY: And everything she says is just another tea leaf.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, no one reads tea (UNINTELLIGIBLE) tea leaves better than political commentator and former presidential adviser David Gergen. He joins us tonight.

David, good to see you.

DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Thank you.

COOPER: You know, there is so much talk about Hillary Clinton repositioning herself. American Values president Gary Bauer recently said this. I quote, "I think what we're seeing is, at least rhetorically, the attempt of the ultimate makeover. She clearly wants to sit in the Oval Office. She's a bright lady, and I think she watched her party throw everything, including the kitchen sink, at the president, still lose. She's made her own calculation that values in the broadest sense of the word was the reason for the loss."

Do you see a makeover going on?

GERGEN: I see her in -- she's very consistent what she's always believed. She's always had strong religious faith. She's been a strong Methodist. She does have conservative social values on many issues.

But, of course, she's bringing those to the fore. And I think what's really remarkably interesting, Anderson, is that in the early days of her first ladyhood, she sometimes could be tone-deaf. I think she's shown remarkable progress as a political leader, and in listening more and being able to respond in a better way to the political dialogue.

She's a much, much better politician today than she was half a dozen years ago. And I think that makes her a more formidable candidate.

COOPER: When you say she used to be tone-deaf, I mean, you're talk, are you talking about, like, the, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), I think she referenced, you know, Tammy Wynette standing, she's not going to be standing by her man baking cookies. You wouldn't hear her say that sort of thing today. GERGEN: Well, I, you know, I had the experience of working with the Clintons in the White House. And I, you know, I think it was always understood that her husband had perfect pitch. I mean, he is, he's like Tony Blair. He, you know, he, he, it's in it, politics is in his fingernails.

Hillary was always much more the person about principle and about policy. But (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the politics of things did not necessarily come as easily to her. She wasn't as natural in the political sphere as she was on -- and she was very strong and very authentic, I thought, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) strongly rooted in principles, and I think very strong on policy.

But she was, she sometimes could be a little tone-deaf on politics. I think that's changed. She's shown a, you know, this, these speeches she's made recently, she was able to build bridges across the abortion divide that nobody else on the, on the Democratic Party, the progressive side of politics, is able, been able to build.

And that's a (UNINTELLIGIBLE), that's a real talent. That's an acquired talent. And, you know, she's very popular in the state of New York. She is much more popular in New York than, by the way, than she is around the countryside. She's still a polarizing figure around the countryside.

COOPER: Well, that's the thing. I mean, there, a lot of conservatives who, you know, relish the idea of Hillary Clinton running for the White House, you know, another northeastern, relatively liberal person trying to get to the White House. Is that what the Democratic Party can put their hopes in?

GERGEN: Well, it's not what they should be putting their hopes in right now. And as you said earlier on, I mean, you know, talking about Hillary now is a bit like saying there are 350 shopping days left till Christmas. You know, it's way too early to be saying this.

She's got a big race coming up in New York. It looks like she's going to win going away in New York. The Republicans have not been able to find a formidable candidate. She would beat, according to the recent poll, she would beat Rudy Giuliani in New York. She would beat Governor Pataki by a wide margin. They don't, they haven't got anybody to run against her. She's got to get past that.

If the election were held today, if there were a national election held today, I don't think there's any doubt Hillary would lose, and lose big-time. I can't think of a single red state that would go blue with her on the ticket. One can think of several blue states that might go red.

But with the big victory in 2006 in New York, and a lot of things can happen between 2000 -- between now and 2008, does she have time to build herself into a formidable national candidate and be very viable in some of the red states? Yes, she certainly has that time. Is it a high probability that will all happen? No. But in our politics, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) our politics right now are very fluid. If George W. Bush has a bad second term, and he, and, you know, he's off to an uneven start, better start in Iraq than what anybody thought, but very uneven on the domestic side, especially Social Security and these budget deficits.

And if the economy were to turn sour, then the Democrats would have a real shot in 2008. Historically, when a president runs for reelection, he wins. But historically, when he finishes that second term, the out party historically has won. So the Democrats have a real shot in 2008 if history, you know, pairs itself out again.

COOPER: It is going to be a fascinating race, no doubt about it.

GERGEN: Absolutely.

COOPER: David Gergen, thanks very much.

GERGEN: Thank you.

COOPER: Appreciate it.

Among Republicans, the new poll results are good news for Rudy Giuliani, as we said. Former New York mayor is ahead of Senator John McCain by 5 percentage points. But look at the bottom, 7 percent. That's pretty good early showing for someone else. We should keep an eye on him, or her, perhaps.

Especially because, as CNN's Kelly Wallace reports, there are some real obstacles facing Rudy Giuliani. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Oh, how he dodges.

RUDOLPH GIULIANI (R), FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: We got to get out of 2004 first.

WALLACE: OK. It's 2005, and the normally matter-of-fact Rudy Giuliani still won't answer the question.

GIULIANI: I don't think we start thinking about the next one until some time from now.

WALLACE: That hasn't stopped Republicans in CNN's latest poll from declaring him the current front-runner for '08, with his rock- star status following his handling of the September 11 attacks.

He is a maverick of sorts. After all, he's for abortion rights, gay marriage, and gun control.

STEPHEN MOORE, PRESIDENT, FREE ENTERPRISE FUND: In some ways, in social issues, Rudy Giuliani is more of a Democrat than he is a Republican.

WALLACE: And to that, cultural conservatives say, Houston, we have a problem.

MATTHEW STAVER, PRESIDENT, LIBERTY COUNSEL: The only way Rudy Giuliani can win is if, in fact, he has a true conversion on the issue of marriage, he becomes pro-life, he supports the sanctity of human life, and he's strong on those issues...

WALLACE: But could his crowd-pleasing performance at the Republican National Convention...

GIULIANI: The president of the United States, George W. Bush.

WALLACE: ... his stumping for President Bush, and his razzle- dazzle celebrity lead conservatives to look past their differences?

Maybe, says Michael Daly, a columnist for the "New York Daily News," who has covered Rudy for years and was at the GOP convention.

MICHAEL DALY, COLUMNIST, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": It's interesting (UNINTELLIGIBLE) you talk, you'll be talking to some guy from Texas who, you know, is pro-life, you know, anti-gay, and you say to him, you say, Well, you know, this is a guy who's pro-choice, who lived with two gay guys for a while. They look at you like, So what?

WALLACE: The gay men were his friends, by the way, who put him up after his separation.

And then there is this.

GIULIANI: Get lost. That's a, that, that's a, that's a, that's a sneaky way of trying to invade somebody's personal life.

WALLACE: City Hall sparing with the New York City press is one thing. But could he handle the scrutiny of a national race?

(on camera): To all of this, Giuliani's spokeswoman says the former mayor is focused on his business and not on presidential politics at the moment, those last three words, of course, leaving all of us political junkies wondering just what the future may hold.

Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: It's coming up next on 360, a man accused of gunning down three sheriff's deputies. Find out how the manhunt for this suspect ended just a short time ago.

Plus, why did a White House reporter suddenly quit? Was he a presidential plant, or simply a conservative reporter targeted by liberals? We're covering all the angles.

Also tonight, seeing Jesus on a wall. Hundreds of people are flocking to this house. You're going to see for yourself the mark they say is a miracle.

All that ahead. First, your picks, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: There was an intense manhunt today in Florida for a suspect with a gun and a gripe, a man wanted for domestic abuse, who's accused of shooting and killing a sheriff's deputy who confronted him. The suspect was able to run for a while. But in the end, he could not hide from the massive manhunt.

Reporter Erick Von Ancken from our affiliate WKMG is on the scene tonight. It was a pretty dramatic day. Take us through it.

ERICK VON ANCKEN, REPORTER, WKMG-TV: Yes, and a pretty dramatic end, too, Anderson.

In fact, I'm standing at one of the schools here. You can see the gate behind me. This was the elementary school that was locked down. There were two today when this started early morning. They didn't want anyone coming in or out because they say the suspect, Jason Wheeler, was just so dangerous.

This was about 8:00 a.m. this morning when deputies got a call of domestic disturbance. They went to the house, and that's when Wheeler allegedly came out and opened fire, as you say, on three deputies, killing one of them. The other two were shot in the leg.

Well, that's when the manhunt started. Wheeler allegedly took off on a motorbike, sped through this wooded area where we are. This is Lake County, it's about an hour north of the Orlando area, so lots of lakes, lots of woods, and lots of swamps.

According to deputies, he was hiding out in these woods. He's a hunter, he's a marksman, allegedly. So they had to be prepared for this guy. We saw these deputies out here with machine guns, shotguns.

According to deputies, the deputy that was shot and killed was shot by a shotgun. That's why they knew that Wheeler had this shotgun. They chased him into the woods, at one point using air boats. They had canines on these airboats looking for Wheeler.

They found him about an hour and a half ago at this point in some of the woods. And he predicted that there would be a firefight. He told neighbors, according to some of the folks we talked to, that he would not go down without a fight. And apparently that is what happened.

He was shot again this afternoon when deputies tried to pick him up. We don't know where. We watched some of the video. Apparently shot somewhere critical, because that's what the situation is now. He's in the hospital in critical shape.

And, of course, you can bet as soon as he comes back or survives this, he will be charged with first-degree murder, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Erick Von Ancken, appreciate it. Thanks very much. The pope's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) public Ash Wednesday services. That tops our look at what's happening around the world in the uplink.

Take you to Rome, Italy, now. For the first time in his 26-year papacy, Pope John Paul II did not preside over Ash Wednesday services at St. Peter's basilica. Said the pope, who is still recovering from a respiratory infection, celebrated the beginning of the Lenten season in his hospital room.

Carera (ph), Colombia, now, Jesus on the wall. Take a look at that. Hundreds of people are visiting a house where they believe the image of Jesus has appeared inside. The homeowner's sister says she found the image on a wall that had been sanded down to paint.

Across China now, the rooster crows. Today officially marks the start of the Chinese New Year. Tens of thousands of people are visiting temples to pray for good fortune. My personal favorite video of the day, however, is this. There it is. It's a festival in Beijing celebrating the rooster. And at many homes, there are family feasts and gift exchanges. I have one of those costumes at my house as well.

We take you now to Bremen, Germany, and some gay penguins. I don't know we're looking at right here. (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We should block this out. German zookeepers have discovered that many of their penguins have been living in homosexual relationships. They've had little luck procreating, obviously, and have now imported four female penguins, hoping, they say, to interest the zoo's male penguins. Let us hope ze lady penguins are used to rejection.

That is a quick look at tonight's uplink.

360 next, deciding the fate of Michael Jackson. Revealing questions and answers from potential jurors.

Plus, why did this White House reporter suddenly quit? Was he a presidential plant, as some are saying, or simply a conservative reporter targeted by liberals? We're covering all the angles tonight.

And a little later, much lighter subject, how to become a supermodel. Does your kid have what it takes? Find out from a woman who picks them all.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: In justice served tonight, Michael Jackson. We know a lot about him, certainly. But what about the men and women who may decide his fate? Each potential juror for the upcoming trial has to answer 42 questions. And what they write down may speak volumes about how they will decide.

We have some of their responses tonight for the first time.

For that, we turn to CNN's Ted Rowlands. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Almost 20 percent of the potential jurors who will decide Michael Jackson's fate say they've been exposed to some sort of inappropriate sexual behavior. Forty-five of the 242 questionnaires we received had an answer of yes to the question, "Have you or any relative or close friend ever been the victim of inappropriate sexual behavior?" Twenty-five people, more than 10 percent, answered that they or someone they knew had been accused of it.

Women outnumber men 135 to 107. Ninety-two potential jurors are over the age of 50, and the vast majority list English as their primary language.

One of the issues still unresolved in this case is if the judge will allow the details from the 1993 and '94 sexual abuse allegations against Jackson in as evidence. More than 60 percent of the potential jurors said they'd read or heard something about that.

More than 25 percent of the jury pool answered that they knew someone who had met Jackson or had been to his Neverland ranch. Attorneys for both sides have hired jury consultants to help pore over these questionnaires next week. The attorneys will ask follow-up questions to the potential jurors face to face, with Michael Jackson and possibly members of his family in the courtroom.

Ted Rowlands, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, potential jurors are not the only ones answering questions about Michael Jackson right now. Former child actor turned reality show curiosity Corey Feldman is talking about his childhood relationship with the singer. He tells ABC News, quote, "I started looking at each piece of information, and with that came this sickening realization that there have been many occurrences in my life and in my relationship to Michael that have created a question of doubt."

Frankly, I've read that statement about a dozen times now, and I still have no idea what he means.

Dramatic rescue video to show you. That tops our look at what's happening right now cross-country.

The waters off Massachusetts, the Coast Guard rescued three fishermen from a sinking boat. The men, aboard the 38-foot boat, called "Hollywood," radioed for help this afternoon, saying the boat was sinking. Coast Guard helicopter brought the men to safety. No one was injured.

Seattle, Washington, now, the FBI is looking for a bank robber. They have nicknamed him the "Can You Hear Me Now" Bandit, because he's always on his cell phone. He apparently likes to hit banks located inside large grocery and department stores. And Miami Beach, Florida, now, tennis star Anna Kournikova stalked by a homeless man who apparently had his addresses mixed up. This guy, police say he was arrested breaking into a home he thought was Kournikova's. It was actually a neighbor's home a couple of doors down.

St. Louis, Missouri, now, quadriplegic attorney wants his chance to be hired or told he's fired on Donald Trump's hit show "The Apprentice." He is suing, claiming auditions violate federal law by requiring excellent physical health for all contestants.

That's a quick look at stories right now cross-country.

A White House reporter quits as questions are raised about who he really worked for. Was he a White House plant, or just a conservative reporter caught up in controversy?

A suburban mom's darkest secret. Why so many desperate housewives are having affairs. Tonight, one woman tells her story of a loveless marriage and an ongoing affair her husband doesn't know about.

And strutting their stuff, young, beautiful, and overpaid supermodels. Does your child have what it takes to become the next queen of the runway?

360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The top 25 medical stories that shaped our health and changed our lives during CNN's first 25 years. We asked top medical experts to come up with a list.

Here's numbers 15 through 11.

Number 15, anthrax. In 2001, five postal workers die and 22 others become ill after handling anthrax-laced letters.

DR. THOMAS INGLESBY, CENTER FOR BIOSECURITY: think it changed the way we think about biological weapons, about terrorism, forever.

GUPTA: At number 14, gene therapy. In 1990, the first federally approved gene therapy treatment is performed on a child with an immune disorder.

Nip and tuck to number 13, cosmetic surgery. A new report by the American Society of Plastic Surgeons found that cosmetic surgery procedures in the United States performed in 2003 nearly tripled the number performed in 1997.

Moving to number 12, in 2001, the low-carb diet craze erupts, as the sales of these diet foods increased by $100 million. At number 11, Fen-Phen. The powerful diet drug combination was recalled in 1997 after being linked to heart problems.

Stay tuned as we continue our countdown to number one.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: A White House reporter resigned today after becoming the target of interest by bloggers and some liberal groups. They made a number of allegations about his personal life, but the issue that brought him to attention in the first place was his professionalism.

His name is Jeff Gannon. He worked for a Web site called Talon News. And has regularly attended him White House briefs. That's him there asking a question. He asked questions of both spokesman and also the president.

His questions, however, were often less than combative. In the wake of the revelation that the administration paid at least one pundit to promote his policy, some reporters began to wondering what Jeff Gannon's agenda was? Was he a real reporter? Or sort of a White House plant? Tonight, CNN's Kathleen Koch Takes us behind the headlines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's been a regular at White House press briefings for the last 2 years, but the man who calls him Jeff Gannon has drawn a flurry of criticism especially since he asked a question at a January presidential press conference that appeared to criticized Democratic lawmakers.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, sir?

JEFF GANNON, TALON NEWS: Hilary Clinton was talking about the economy being on the verge of collapse. Yet in the same breath, they say that Social Security is rock solid and there's no crisis there. How are you going to work? You said you will reach out to these people. How are you going to work with people who seem to have divorced themselves from reality?

KOCH: News organizations, watch dog groups and Internet blog's quickly investigated claiming that TalonNews.com, which Gannon writes for is operated by a Texas-based Republican Party delegate and political activist. They raised questions about Gannon's real name and his background.

Democratic Congresswoman Louise Slaughter fired off a letter to the president asking whether Gannon was being allowed in as a quote, tool of propaganda to lob softball questions.

REP. LOUISE SLAUGHTER, (D) HOUSE CMTE. ON RULES: The fact that they credentialed him when he wouldn't comment is an indication that they wanted him in. They knew who he was. If they were willing to go that far to fool us, then I think that some remedy somewhere has got to be sought.

KOCH: The White House says it never issued Gannon a regular White House credential. It did allow him to enter on daily passes. Spokesman Scott McClellan saying it's not the White House's role it decide who is or is not a real journalist.

Gannon never hid his political views. On his Web site calling himself quote, "A conservative journalist imbedded with the liberal Washington press corps."

He's now shut down the Web site and resigned saying quote, "because of the attention being paid to me, I find it is no longer possible to effectively be a reporter for Talon News. In consideration of the welfare of me and my family, I have decided to return to private life."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOCH: Many journalists who cover the White House say having such partisans in their ranks does make them uncomfortable. But in a press corps where increasing number of journalists cater to specialized audiences, they also worry about the enforceability of a litmus test of impartiality -- Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, litmus test. Hard thing to do. Thank you very much, Kathleen.

Liberal groups are saying this guy shouldn't have gotten a press pass, conservatives groups are saying this is a witch hunt, politically motivated. And we don't take sides on 360. We like to cover all of the angles.

We asked the White House to respond tonight, they said no. We asked someone from Talon News. They declined as well.

Joining me from Washington, Congresswoman Louise Slaughter, a Democrat from New York who today, as you just heard in that report, sent a letter to President Bush asking him to explain how Jeff Gannon was credentialed as a member of the media by the White House.

Congresswoman, I appreciate you joining us.

SLAUGHTER: Well, I am glad to be here Anderson.

COOPER: Let me ask you, though, why shouldn't Jeff Gannon be a credentialed reporter? There are plenty of liberals asking questions to the president?

SLAUGHTER: Why should he be? I know the White House statement is that they don't have any role to play in credentialing reporters, but the House gallery press gallery, as well as the Senate gallery, they do have.

COOPER: But he works for a Web site that's been around for a while, whether you like it or not, whether it's conservative or not.

SLAUGHTER: I don't care about that. That doesn't bother me a bit. I don't care about the man's personal life or anything else. But for 18 years in Congress, I have been trying to fight for some fairness and some decency in the media.

There has been a special bond between the citizens of this country and the people who deliver the news. Think about Cronkite and Severeid and others that this administration has broken. It is a pattern. This man is part of the pattern of Armstrong Williams and the 3 or 4 others, and who knows how many who have been paid to shell for this White House.

COOPER: I hate to argue with you. I hate to argue with you, but since White House didn't come on or anyone else from Talon News come on, I have to argue -- I know that you know.

SLAUGHTER: It's fine with me.

It's a little hard to argue, isn't.

COOPER: Not so much the White House who broken the bond, that the media has done a good job breaking that bond as well. Why shouldn't be there a conservative reporter asking questions, though, just as there are liberal reporters?

SLAUGHTER: It doesn't matter he's a conservative reporter. The question is, is he a reporter? In addition to that...

COOPER; Are you concerned about other people in the White House? Have you looked at the list of other reporters who are there?

SLAUGHTER: Well, let me make a point here to show you that Mr. Gannon is different with the White House. According to the Washington Post, he was the only person known to have access to a CIA secret document about the case of Valerie Plane. And when he and his capacity whatever he calls it, questioned Mr. Wilson, he made reference to that document and has now been subpoenaed. I don't -- this is -- shows to me this that this is a man who has extraordinarily good White House credentials.

COOPER: So do you think he's was a plant...

SLAUGHTER: ...they knew who he was. And frankly, today...

Yes, I do.

COOPER: You think the White House put him there pause they wanted softball questions?

SLAUGHTER: Of course. If they credential anybody who shows up for the daily briefing who just shows up the door, I hope 11,000 show up next time. If that's all takes...

COOPER: I am sorry, I just want to put his statement on to get some response from this guy. He said, quote, "I am admittedly a conservative journalist, and that point of view is not represented in the briefing room at all. Other White House reporters come from a decidedly liberal perspective, certainly left of center. Call me partisan, fine, but let my colleagues off the hood. They're partisan too, but they don't admit it."

SLAUGHTER: I don't believe that. Oh, that's the last refuge of a rascal. That's all he has to say.

But let me tell you, we need to demand more than this. I don't want to be fed propaganda from this White House. I don't want people to be paid to give it to me.

COOPER: I hear you.

SLAUGHTER: We deserve the facts, or this democracy will suffer.

COOPER: Congressman Slaughter, we appreciate you joining us. I don't think anyone wants propaganda. We want some facts. We want the truth.

SLAUGHTER: Well, I sure hope so. I would like to see some.

COOPER: All right. So would we. Thanks very much, Congresswoman, appreciate it.

Back in the White House press room today, the subject of the day was money, specifically the cost the new Medicare prescription drug benefit today. Today, Bush administration released estimates indicating the benefit would cost $723 billion over its first decade. That's more than $300 billion higher than the estimate presented when Congress approved the measure. The question is, how does spokesman Scott McClellan defend the new numbers? You know, it's all about sticking to the talking points. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): Talking point No. 1: life's not a box of chocolates. It's a basket of fruit.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think some of the reports today are comparing apples and oranges mixing apples and oranges and apples to oranges comparison. That's not apples to apples.

COOPER: Talking point No. 2: think big picture overall.

MCCLELLAN: It shows lower overall Medicare projections. The overall projections. The overall cost for Medicare, the overall cost for Medicare are -- less overall cost projections for Medicare. The overall cost to Medicare, the projection are coming down.

COOPER: Talking point No. 3: it's all about steps.

MCCLELLAN: Take additional steps. To take additional steps. There will be additional steps. Additional steps. Additional steps. That's an important step. COOPER: Talking point No. 4: clear as a bell.

MCCLELLAN: That was spelled out very clearly. We were very clear. But the president made it very clear. We made it very clear. And it spells out very clearly. The president's made that very clear. But we were very clear. And we have made very clear.

COOPER: Let's hope that's all clear.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Clear as a bell.

360 next, the secret lives of suburban wives. One wife who doesn't want to reveal her identity tells why she is having an affair. It's a fascinating discussion. Part of our special series "Family Secrets."

Also tonight, who is and who isn't model material? I know, it's a burning question. We take you behind the scenes of New York's fashion week. Could your child be a model? A lot of kids want to be. We'll talk about that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, there's a new twist on an age-old family secret. Extramarital affairs. It's not just men anymore. Not hardly. According to one survey, the rate of women committing adultery is now approaching that of men, 50 percent. In our special series tonight, they are willing to talk about it.

Take for example a woman you're about to meet. A married suburban woman we will call Mrs. F. She is 48, mother of two. Although she has no intention of leaving her marriage, about ten years into it, she started an affair. When I spoke with her, she insisted on being in shadow and having her voice disguised. You can understand the reasons but she wasn't shy about discussing her secret life.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: You've been married for more than a dozen years. You have children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

COOPER: How did the affair begin?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The affair was with a man who've I've known since I was a teenager. And we've always been good friends and very close. An actual physical affair wasn't planned or -- but, it was really wonderful. It was passionate, it was loving. It was someone who I cared for deeply.

COOPER: Was it a response to this man in particular? Or was it -- was something lacking in your marriage? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it was definitely in response to this man, however. The marriage -- it's not a very happy one. We have a family. We have all of these things in common. The community. The bills. The house. But yet we really don't have emotional intimacy, we don't have each other in common. We don't share a lot about each other, with each other. It's been that way for a very long time.

COOPER: So you thought about divorce.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Initially, it made me feel that I wanted to get out of the marriage and have this all the time. There's part of me that feels, well, maybe all marriages turn into this to some degree.

COOPER: I guess, it doesn't it make it harder, it doesn't make it easier to live the life that you're living day in, day out?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the things that made it easier was sort a reaffirmation of myself. Feeling -- I didn't just feel like the mommy anymore or the housewife.

COOPER: You said that being a loyal devoted wife is very different than practicing fidelity. How so?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I take good care of him I think in the sense that I'm -- you know, I champion him and I help him with things that he needs and workwise and his family. We just happen to not be a very good match for each other.

COOPER: Do you worry -- I know that you worry that the kids would find out. Do you worry what they will think? Will it change the way they think about you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I would feel that they would perhaps be disappointed. What I worry more is what I feel they don't see. They don't see a married couple that's constantly either lovey dovey or I think very connected.

COOPER: Some people who are watching may say, well, why don't you just make a choice? Either leave the husband or stay with him and try to work on it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just feels right now that it would be impossible. It wouldn't -- it wouldn't really solve anything. Well, yes, I would be out of the marriage but if so many people weren't happy particularly the children, I wouldn't be getting anymore happiness from that. That would truly be what would make me most unhappy.

COOPER: Well, thanks for talking. I know it's a very difficult thing for you. We appreciate you coming in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're welcome.

(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Mrs. F. who just heard from is one of 26 women interviewed in revealing new book about women who are either having affairs on their husbands or thinking about it. The book is called "To Love, Honor, and Betray, the Secret Life of Suburban Wives."

Joining me now are the co-authors, Stephanie and Adrianne Lopez. I appreciate both of you being with us.

Mrs. F., as we'll call her, is she common among the women you talk to?

STEPHANIE GERTLER, CO-AUTHOR, "TO LOVE, HONOR & BETRAY": I think that she is typical of many of the women that we spoke with. She's married. She has children. She doesn't want to break up her home.

COOPER: I think a lot of people would see that and say, she should make a choice.

GERTLER: She can't make the choice right now, she has young children. Even women with older children feel that the choice is very difficult to make. It's very difficult to dissolve a marriage and not just dissolving a marriage, you're dissolving a union that includes his family, her family. Friend, community.

ADRIENNE LOPEZ, CO-AUTHOR, "TO LOVE, HONOR & BETRAY": I don't think that people have an intention to break up their families. They want to try to keep it together. I don't think -- they want to have an affair to fill some need they're missing, some passion or possibly some emotional need that they're missing and they just don't want to upset the entire family.

COOPER: Do you think that more women are having affairs now or we're just hearing about it more.

GERTLER: No, I don't think -- I think that we are hearing about it more, I think that they're more forthcoming and I also think that we're serving women more than in society...

COOPER: Because there are those who say because more women are in the workplace, that's where a lot of affairs begin. That's why the numbers...

LOPEZ: You know, nobody really talked about it, Anderson. I think -- when a husband goes to work, a wife -- the secretary might say, oh, my gosh, your tie looks so great or you look so handsome or you lost some weight. He's still getting some type of adulation when he goes into his office. But the woman who may be still at home, she is just missing there and I think this is something that helps her to fulfill that.

GERTLER: But interestingly the 26 women we interviewed were not primarily stay-at-home women. They were all professional women save maybe one or two. And I don't think that this was a question with them of not getting praise necessarily at home. I think that it was just purely something that had to do with them with their marriage. COOPER: I mean, obviously you try to be nonjudgmental when you interview these people but is there something that you personally learned about how to try to prevent affairs? People are listening, wives or husbands. What can someone do to try to stop this from happening?

GERTLER: We're very adamant about the fact that we're advocates and we're also not condemning this. I don't think it's really a question of stopping somebody from having an affair. These women feel very strongly that there's a justification for their actions. They have a very profound sense of entitlement.

COOPER: But is there something that you learned, that keep thinking, well, one should always keep the flame alive or figure out ways? How do you prevent it from happening?

GERTLER: I think communication and reinventing the marriage.

LOPEZ: Communication and paying attention. I think a lot of times women are sometimes starved when their husbands come home, they're there taking care of the family. Even if they do go out into the workplace. When they come home, they're still taking care of the family. And I think that they need to just talk and the husband just maybe needs to grab her hand or do something to make her feel special or like they felt when they first got together and there was this romantic whirlwind when they first got together.

COOPER: It's hard to keep that going.

LOPEZ: It is hard to keep that going but I think it can be kept going.

GERTLER: I think it's also very much a two-way street. And I think that -- I mean, any marriage counselor will tell you that men and women hear things differently. They listen differently and I think it's very important that in talking about this that we don't point a finger at the guys too much. Yes, sure, the women want -- we want our hands held but we have to hold your hand, too.

COOPER: It's a fascinating look and a lot of women interviewed in this book, really interesting insights. The book is "To Love, Honor, and Betray, the Secret Lives of Suburban Wives." Thanks for being with us.

All this week we're going to be looking at some of the family secrets many families across America have. Thursday: well secret life of a porn addict. And on Friday, you're going to meet a woman who is a stripper, doesn't want her family to know about it. Interesting look at why people keep secrets.

Coming up next on 360, what it takes to be a top model on the catwalk. A lot of kids out there would like to be this. Not sure their parents want their kids to be that, but you never know. We'll take you inside New York's fashion week.

Also a little later, flying the cheap way. We're not talking discount tickets. You are never going to guess what they're taking out of the airlines now. You thought it couldn't get any worse. It's getting worse. We'll tell you about that in the Nth Degree ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: So for those of you who believe that clothes make a person and if you do, I feel sorry for you, there is probably no better place to be right now than in New York City where it is fashion week. The clothes on display here are dazzling, so are the models wearing them. And as CNN's Alina Cho report, they're not just pretty faces.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some of the hottest names on the cat walk this season are not designers, but models. Take 21-year-old Michelle Buswell. Marilyn Gauthier discovered her.

MARILYN GAUTHIER, FOUNDER, MARILYN INC.: Michelle's beautiful. She's like a very all-American in one way, you know? She's tall, blond, but she has something very unusual in the face.

CHO: That something unusual is what Marilyn is known for at her namesake modeling agency, without posts in New York, Paris and Brazil, Marilyn represents some of the biggest names in the business. Naomi Campbell, Helena Christensen and model turned fashion icon Kate Moss.

GAUTHIER: When I meet Moss, she was not even 16-years-old.

CHO: At the time, other modeling agency didn't want Kate. She was too short. Marilyn saw things a bit differently.

GAUTHIER: The way she was moving. She was so natural. It was so modern. Everybody like wow.

CHO: Back in the '80s, Marilyn also worked out a deal between French model Lanez de la Fransaunge (ph) and Chenille, the country's first big modeling contract. So how does she know who has it and who doesn't it?

We asked Marilyn about some of her new models and what caught her eye.

First up Russian model Ruse Lana, who's dominating feature is her hair down her knees.

GAUTHIER: It was like a painting from renaissance. You know, it -- absolutely gorgeous.

CHO: Then there's Cynthia, the Brazilian Marilyn calls the next Bridget Bordeaux.

GAUTHIER: Ah the lips. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

CHO: But Marilyn says it takes much more than just long limbs and looks to be a top model, it takes personality. Just ask Marilyn's right-hand Kwok Chan who travels the country looking for new talent and says real beauty comes from within.

KWOK CHAN, DIR. DEVELOPMENT, MARILYN INC.: It's somebody that I want to spend more than five minutes, you know.

CHO: Marilyn says Michelle Buswell has it, and for the record, this six foot blond calls it a dream come true.

Alina Cho, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Did they just say real beauty comes from within?

While that may be true, you don't see really inner beauty on the cat walk. I don't know. At least, that's my opinion. Now let's find out what's coming up at the top of the hour on "PAULA ZAHN NOW."

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Anderson. Defiance, no apologizes from University of Colorado Professor Ward Churchill who compared some 9/11 victims to Nazis. Well, now Churchill is attacking Colorado's governor. The governor wants him fired, and the governor will be joining us tonight.

Also, as more U.S. soldiers head to Iraq, does the White House have a plan to get them out? We're going to look at that coming up with a number of generals, Anderson. They have an interesting take on all of it of this.

COOPER: All right, Paula, that's about five minutes. Thanks very much, Paula.

ZAHN: Thank you.

COOPER: doming up next on 360, you thought it couldn't get any worse on airplanes. It's getting worse. Well, they're about to take away something. We'll tell you about that in "The Nth Degree," ahead. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: My favorite video of the day from Beijing, it's year of the rooster. Let's celebrate everyone in chicken suits. All right -- or rooster suits I should say.

Time to check on some of our "Viewer Mail."

Marla Gaspard, of Kenner, Louisiana, took issue with my saying yesterday that New Orleans smelled of beer and urine during Mardi Gras. "Mardi Gras is celebrated not only in the French Quarter but in the suburbs. The parades in these areas attract families. I have to disagree with Anderson Cooper's comments about the beer and urine during Mardi Gras. That only occurs in the French Quarter." Point taken.

But of course, she is a New Yorker. You can send us your thoughts anytime, cnn.com/360. Just click on the instant feedback link.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Tonight taking cost cutting to "The Nth Degree." OK, so guess what American Airlines is giving up for lent? Well, all right, not for lent. It's probably just a coincidence that the announcement came out today on Ash Wednesday at the beginning of the season of sacrifice. Anyway, the little luxury American Airlines have decided to folk go as a money-saving measure is that hanky-sized bit of a stuffed rectangle the stewardess gives you to put behind your head, yes. Except on the longest flight, no more pillows. This strategy will save the airline upward of $375,000. Sure, we're tough. We don't need no stinking pillows. Hey, we don't really need the seats either. If the hardwood floor of a Conestoga wagon was good enough for our pioneer ancestors and then the nice cushy carpet of jumbo jets fuselage should be good enough for us. Come to think of it, what's wrong with bare metal, carpet doesn't grow on trees you know. And what are we babies, having to press our noses up against that fake expensive glass all the time. There really isn't anything out there to see anyway. Do away with the windows while you're at, and save a bundle.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: It started with the food, now it's the pillows, soon it will be the windows, mark my words. That's it for now. Thanks very much for watching. "PAULA ZAHN NOW" is next -- Paula.

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