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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Johnnie Cochran Dies; Battle Over Terri Schiavo
Aired March 29, 2005 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from Pinellas Park, Florida. I'm Anderson Cooper.
We begin with breaking news. The man who defended O.J. Simpson, Johnnie Cochran, is dead.
360 starts now.
ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360, with Anderson Cooper in Pinellas Park, Florida, and Heidi Collins in New York.
COOPER: Good evening again.
We are live here in Pinellas Park, Florida, at Hospice House Woodside to cover what must be the last chapter in the long, sad story of Terri Schindler Schiavo.
Before we turn to her, though, we have breaking news to report to you tonight. Johnnie Cochran, the flamboyant, influential, and enormously successful attorney who represented O.J. Simpson, among other controversial clients, died today of cancer at his Los Angeles home. He was 67 years old.
CNN's Eric Philips has more now on the life and death of the man who may have the best-known lawyer -- may have been the best-known lawyer of the age.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERIC PHILIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The 1995 O.J. Simpson trial and acquittal made Johnnie Cochran a household name.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNNIE COCHRAN, O.J. SIMPSON'S ATTORNEY: If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILIPS: Cochran led the Simpson dream team of defense attorneys. And while his courtroom tactics were alternately praised and denounced, he convinced the jury that race not only influenced the police investigation of Simpson but defined the case against him.
Cochran served as counsel to many black celebrities, but his passion was taking on cases involving police misconduct, often aimed at the Los Angeles Police Department. After the L.A. riots in 1992, he represented Reginald Denny, a white truck driver beaten by a black mob. Cochran argued the LAPD was guilty of discrimination for failing to protect the neighborhood where his client was assaulted.
He also represented Abner Luima, the Haitian immigrant sodomized with a broken broomstick by two New York City policemen.
And he defended former Black Panther Party leader Geronimo Pratt in a 1972 murder trial. Cochran lost that case, but perseverance led to his client's release from prison 25 years later.
Cochran credited his family for his steadfastness. A Louisiana native, and the great-grandson of a slave, he grew up in Los Angeles, and served as a deputy city attorney before building his own practice and launching his own show on Court TV.
Johnnie Cochran will be remembered as a brilliant attorney who knew how to make a point and how to make it stick.
I'm Eric Phillips reporting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: He certainly did know how to make a point and make it stick.
Joining me now is someone who came to know Johnnie Cochran very well. In New York, CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, who spent months inside the courtroom covering the O.J. Simpson trial.
Jeffrey, good to see you.
You watched every day of the O.J. Simpson trial. You wrote a book on the trial. What do you think of Johnnie Cochran in that courtroom?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: He was really the only larger-than-life person I have ever seen operating in a courtroom. He took the oxygen out of any room he went into. And that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) took place before, during, and after the Simpson case.
He really was one of the most charismatic people I've ever met in my life. And that was very much to O.J. Simpson's benefit.
COOPER: And what was the charisma? I mean, what about it? Was it -- I mean, we all know the turn of phrase, there's no -- if it doesn't fit, you must acquit. But it, but charisma goes farther than that.
TOOBIN: That's right. It was a combination of intelligence, and a wonderful instinct -- wonderful for his client -- of taking a theme and working it every single day in the courtroom.
You know, he always had a purpose. He wasn't just trying to, you know, sort of damage a witness. It was always to damage a government witness with the intent of proving, at least in the case I followed most closely, that O.J. Simpson was the victim of a racist government conspiracy in Los Angeles. And every move, every gesture, every question was intended to achieve that aim.
COOPER: And where did he learn that? I mean, is that something you just develop over time in doing cases, or is that something, you know, you either got or you don't?
TOOBIN: No, I think, you know, he really -- his -- the theme of, you know, racial discrimination, you know, was, was throughout his career. In 1966, when he was a 29-year-old lawyer, he represented the family of a man named Leonard Deadwyler, who was killed by the Los Angeles Police in a coroner's investigation. He got a lot of attention in Los Angeles.
And from that moment, when he was 29 years old, in case after case, he proved, at least to the satisfaction of many juries, that there was police misconduct.
You know, personally, as he knew, I didn't believe him in the Simpson case. I didn't think there was any racist conspiracy. But he was very successful in proving that, and he won a lot of acquittals and made a lot of money for his clients.
COOPER: Yes, he certainly did. I mean, he had a lot of stars, Michael Jackson's 1993 molestation allegations. He represented Sean P. Diddy Combs. Jury selection at that trial, one juror reportedly called Cochran the most famous lawyer on Earth. I guess that's true.
TOOBIN: I mean, I really think it's hard to think of anyone else who would fit that, fit that, meaning, I mean, just remember, in the last episode of "Seinfeld," which was watched by, I believe, almost 100 million people, the key character was a Johnnie Cochran impersonator, which suggests that, you know, his cultural influence was beyond that of certainly any lawyer, and probably any judge, you can think of.
Far more Americans could pick Johnnie Cochran out of a lineup than could pick William Rehnquist out of a lineup.
COOPER: All right. Well, Jeffrey Toobin, thank you very much for your reflections tonight. Thank you very.
TOOBIN: OK.
COOPER: Johnnie Cochran, dead at the age of 67.
Coming up next on this special edition of 360, life-and-death decisions. Terri Schiavo hangs on for life right here in Pinellas Park, Florida. We are live outside Hospice House Woodside. She is hanging onto life. The battle continues over what to do with her now, and what to do with her after she dies. We're going to hear from all sides tonight.
Plus, ahead, confessions of a high school killer. Find out what drove this teenager over the edge.
Also ahead tonight, sidewalk shooting caught on tape. An angry client opens fire on a lawyer in broad daylight. You've seen that video. We're going to update you, hear from the man who was shot five times, lived to tell his tale. What is he doing? And what is the shooter doing now?
All that ahead. First, your picks, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back to our special edition of 360.
We are live from Pinellas Park, Florida. I am standing far from alone, as you can see, outside the hospice. That's a shot of the front door of the hospice. Inside, Terri Schiavo lays dying. It is day 12 for her, no food, no water. Forty-one-year-old Terri Schiavo's life is coming to an end.
Those in favor of letting her go say it is a peaceful and appropriate end for someone in her condition. Those opposed say she is suffering and even now could recover if her feeding tube were reinstated, even though the legal avenues toward that end all have been exhausted.
Those struggling over Terri, however, are not exhausted. And today, a new voice added to the crowd. The Reverend Jesse Jackson showed up here at her hospice to support the Schindler family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
REV. JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW PUSH COALITION: Yesterday, Mrs. Schindler and Bobby called me and asked me, would I come and pray with them and be with them. And I was anxious to do so, because this is one of the profound moral, ethical issues of our time, the saving of Terri's life. And today we pray for a miracle.
ROBERT SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: I saw Terri earlier this morning, and she's failing. She still looks pretty darn good under the circumstances, but you can see the impact of 12 days without food or water that it's having on her. And I pray to God that she continues to have the strength to go on.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
COOPER: Well, that's Terri Schiavo's father, who is trying to save his daughter's life.
We are about just a few hundred feet from the hospice. It's just over there to my shoulder. You can see a number of the protesters. They have been here, of course, all week long. The numbers ebb and flow. There are several dozen out here at this point. And they will stay out here. Many are camping out here. You see people in little pup tents. There you see carrying the flag. Protesters of all sorts coming from all around the country. Both Terri Schiavo's parents and her husband now want an autopsy to be performed on her body after she dies. This has been a point of contention for quite some time. They both agree on this. As for what happens after that autopsy has been done, the two sides remain, as they have in nearly everything else up to now, opposed.
David Mattingly has more now on the final struggle for Terri Schiavo.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terri, don't do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The sharp discord that has followed Terri Schiavo in her final years of life may follow her into death as well.
GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: It's been reported to me that some persons were questioning Mr. Schiavo's motives in having Mrs. Schiavo cremated.
MATTINGLY: Relentlessly criticized for his decision to remove the life-sustaining feeding tube by friends and family of Terri Schiavo, who reject the diagnosis she is in a persistent vegetative state, Michael Schiavo, according to his attorney, has requested an autopsy be performed, and the results be made public.
FELOS: He believes it's important to have the public know the full and massive extent of the damage to Mrs. Schiavo's brain that occurred through the cardiac arrest in 1990.
MATTINGLY: But the decision to have the autopsy conducted by a county medical examiner may not be enough to satisfy Terri Schiavo's family, the Schindlers. Their attorney already suggests experts in cases of abuse and strangulation may be needed in the autopsy to answer their questions about what caused her brain damage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened in 1990? Was there any type of strangulation or abuse or anything that occurred? I think those issues need to be addressed. What kind of condition is Terri in? What kind of condition is her mind and her body in? Did she have a heart attack? There's a lot of things that can be known. And I think for the family and for all involved, getting good answers is a very good thing.
MATTINGLY: But experts caution that an autopsy will produce limited findings. Questions about injuries that may or may not have occurred 15 years ago may go unanswered, while questions about the condition of her brain and the diagnosis of a persistent vegetative state could be resolved clearly.
DR. CYRIL WECHT: What the autopsy can tell you is what she died of, that is to say, whether there truly is this significant brain damage.
MATTINGLY: The Florida circuit court again reaffirmed Michael Schiavo's authority to make the decisions to have his wife's remains cremated and buried in Pennsylvania, where they grew up. On Tuesday, Judge George Greer turned down the Schindlers' emergency request to have their daughter buried in Florida without cremation.
PAUL O'DONNELL, SCHINDLER FAMILY SPIRITUAL ADVISER: In our tradition, we like to have the body there at the liturgy, and then afterwards, that it's buried in a dignified place, because we believe that the glorified soul will be reunited with the body one day.
MATTINGLY: As far back as November 2002, Michael Schiavo has claimed to be acting on the wishes of his wife, Terri, and not his own. He was quoted in the newspaper "St. Petersburg Times" saying, "She never wanted to be put in the ground with bugs. She always told me that."
The judge found Schiavo's plans to be consistent with Roman Catholicism. Schiavo's only obligation is to notify the Schindlers of any memorial services and the location of the cemetery.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: You know, David, David, if this was a movie, in the final scenes, both these sides of the family would come together. That's not going to happen, happen here.
MATTINGLY: No, the two families could not be further apart. And they seem to be even getting further apart by the day. You talk to them privately, and they will tell you how much they're going to be grieving at Terri's passing. But there's no indication that they will be grieving together. It would take something extraordinary for that to happen.
COOPER: And they used to be close. I mean, Michael Schiavo lived with the Schindlers, even after Terri's -- was hospitalized.
MATTINGLY: And you see some of that in the court records. They talk about what a wonderful son-in-law he was. But there was a tremendous break in this family. And it just keeps getting wider all the time.
COOPER: And now there's talking that he wasn't such a wonderful son -- the story -- many different versions of the story at this point.
David Mattingly, thanks.
A quick news note now Another protester was arrested today, the 47th person put in handcuffs here in Pinellas Park outside Terri Schiavo's hospice. Today, a Pennsylvania man was tackled by police -- there you see it happening -- tackled by police, shocked with a stun gun after trying to dash past security into the hospice.
Police say Dow Persley (ph), who has been charged with attempted burglary and resisting arrest without violence, was carrying two bottles of water, that is him there, but never made it past the hospice door.
There is a lot more to talk about concerning this case. On 360, we get all the angles. In just a few moments, we're going to talk with two key players in the struggle over Terri Schiavo, the Schindler family's spiritual adviser, Brother Paul O'Donnell, and the attorney for Michael Schiavo, George Felos.
All that is ahead.
The first lady sneaks out of the country for a surprise visit with the troops. Erica Hill from Headline News has the evening's headlines. Good evening, Erica.
ERICA HILL, HEADLINE NEWS: Hi, Anderson, good to see you.
That's right, First Lady Laura Bush is now on her way to Afghanistan for a quick visit. The White House says she'll make a stop in Kabul to highlight advances made by women since the fall of the Taliban. She will also meet with Afghan President Hamid Karzai and have dinner with U.S. troops at Bagram Air Base before she returns to Washington on Thursday.
People still trying to put their lives back together from December's tsunami in Indonesia are once again searching for victims and survivors of a devastating earthquake. The Indonesian government says about 330 people were killed in yesterday's massive quake, most on the island of Nias. Nearly 30 percent of the buildings in the island's largest city were destroyed. Officials say the death toll could reach 2000.
A former top official of the Boy Scouts of America will be in court tomorrow to face charges he downloaded child pornography on his computer. Douglas Smith is expected to plead guilty to receiving and distributing child pornography. He retired from the Boy Scouts in February after a 39-year career with the group. An official for the Boy Scouts says Smith's job did not involve working with children directly.
And Blockbuster, get ready to pay up. In an effort to clear up any confusion over its no-late-fees policy, the company has agreed to pay $630,000 to settle a case brought by 47 states that said people were misled by that new policy. So from now on, receipts will show the amount customers would owe for failing to return a movie within a seven-day grace period.
And that is the latest for Headline News. Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: I'm still confused by that, but I'll take your word for it. Erica Hill, thanks very much. We'll see you again in about 30 minutes.
We are focusing in depth tonight on the battle over Terri Schiavo. I'm live in Pinellas Park, Florida, just outside her hospice, where protesters continue to beat drums, to blow horns, to try to get attention on this story. We're going to talk to representatives from both camps in this story just ahead on 360.
But first, let's go to Heidi Collins in New York. Hey, Heidi.
HEIDI COLLINS, HOST: Hey, Anderson, thanks.
360 next now, confessions of a teen killer. Find out what role bullying played in a high school shooting. We have the tapes.
Plus, Anderson Cooper live in Pinellas Park, Florida, where we'll hear from both sides of Terri Schiavo's family.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the father of a teenager charged in connection with last week's school massacre in Minnesota says his son is innocent. Reports say the 16-year-old boy is accused of conspiring with Jeff Weise to help plan the March 21st rampage at Red Lake High School. Weise killed nine people before committing suicide. All day, this has been one of the most viewed stories on CNN.com. And every day, 360's Rudi Bakhtiar looks into those Web stories to bring you an angle you won't see anywhere else.
Rudi, what'd you find out tonight?
RUDI BAKHTIAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Heidi.
Yes, we got some troubling -- we got ahold of a troubling survey about what students at Red Lake High School are thinking about. A poll of 56 ninth-graders showed 81 percent of the girls, 43 percent of the boys, considered suicide . And even more disturbing is that 50 percent of the girls, 20 percent of the boys actually tried to kill themselves. And also another teenager who didn't want to live turned his depression into a school shooting spree, and he spelled out the reason for it in this chilling videotape confession we're about to show you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BAKHTIAR: 16-year-old Luke Woodham woke up early on October 1st, 1997.
LUKE WOODHAM, TROUBLED TEEN: You can ask anybody at school. They'll tell you, I just -- I hated -- I really hated the world.
BAKHTIAR: Before heading to school, the 6'1, stalky young man beat his mother with a baseball bat and then stabbed her to death. In a taped confession, Luke told investigators his mother never loved him.
WOODHAM: She always told me I wouldn't amount to anything. She always told me that I was fat and stupid and lazy.
BAKHTIAR: Luke arrived at his Pearl, Mississippi, high school carrying a rifle which he hid under a trench coat. His first target was his former girlfriend.
WOODHAM: I ran inside the school, ran up to Christina -- bam, right in the heart.
BAKHTIAR: Luke shot to death 16-year-old Christina Menefee and her friend, Lydia Dew. He wounded seven others.
WOODHAM: I knew that once I killed her, that you know, I knew I was going to snap. I just wanted to kill her.
BAKHTIAR: In his taped confession, he returned again and again to the pain he felt after Christina broke up with him the year before.
WOODHAM: She'd always flirt with other guys. She always did that kind of crap, right to my face. She'd always tell me how cute other guys were, and all this kind of crap, and it just gets to you. I mean, I loved her, and she just didn't care.
BAKHTIAR: Luke was a bright boy who says he was picked on by his peers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of people talked bad about him, made fun of him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just, like, kept quiet. And he was, like, weird.
WOODHAM: It all built up inside of me, over time. People always picked on me. They always called me gay and stupid stuff like that.
BAKHTIAR: Michael Welner is a forensic psychologist.
MICHAEL WELNER, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: With such a spectacular crime, it's clear that so many things have to come together, but, because there's qualities that Luke Woodham had that a number of high school students at risk would share. Clearly, there are a lot of people who have this sense that they're a nobody and going nowhere, and don't have much hope, and don't have much support to go forward. So, it's the idea of a person who is not only a nobody but is reminded when he goes to school, in that environment, that he's going to continue to be a nobody.
BAKHTIAR: In his confession, Luke wavered between emotional vulnerability...
WOODHAM: It turns out, the whole time we were going out, she was making fun of me behind my back. And I mean, they just -- and...
BAKHTIAR: ...and what sounds like arrogant boasting.
WOODHAM: Well, I guess the world's going to remember me now. I'm probably going to get pretty famous.
BAKHTIAR: When it came time for trial, Luke's own words about why he went on the rampage came back to haunt him.
WOODHAM: I'm not insane, sir, all right? I knew what I was doing. I was just really pissed at the time.
BAKHTIAR: A jury twice rejected his temporary insanity defense. He's serving three consecutive life sentences.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BAKHTIAR: And, Heidi, we had a chance to call the jail and ask a little bit about his status right now. He's in solitary confinement. He's allowed an hour a day to go out into the outdoors and spend about an hour outdoors. He's had no infractions.
And we also have this picture of him, what he looks like today. You know, he was 17 when he was arrested because of the shooting. And that's what Luke Woodham looks like today.
COLLINS: The whole thing is troubling.
BAKHTIAR: Very. Thank you.
COLLINS: Thanks. Cooper, back to you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Day 12, no food, no water. Terri Schiavo clinging to life. Tonight, her family's desperate, final attempts to keep her alive.
ROBERT SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: We still have her. And it's not too late to save her.
COOPER: Caught on tape, a man shot at point blank range.
GERRY CURRY, SHOOTING VICTIM: I was trying to keep the tree between the gun and my head.
COOPER: Tonight, whatever happened to the man who dodged bullets behind a tree?
And does size really matter when it comes to career and love? Tonight, we put the myth to the test, and find out why short people may be short-changed on salary, status, and respect.
360 continues.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. JESSE JACKSON, SUPPORTS SCHINDLER FAMILY: Without water or food, without even ice cubes for her lips for 12 days, she is still alive. That should send a message to all of us, that while law is important, it must be tempered with mercy to have justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was the Reverend Jesse Jackson, earlier today, going against, perhaps, some of his political allies to support the Schindlers, as a man of faith. The Reverend isn't the only person of the cloth here in Pinellas Park pleading for Terri Schiavo's life: Brother Paul O'Donnell, the Schindler family's spiritual advisor, also spoke out, as he has done on many occasions. And he joins me now.
Brother Paul, thanks very much for being with us. Brother O'Donnell, how are the Schindlers doing?
BRO. PAUL O'DONNELL, SCHINDLER SPIRITUAL ADVISER: Well, they're not doing very well right now. They're concerned about Terri, and she's dying. And she's dying of starvation and dehydration.
COOPER: Have they accepted that as -- that is what is going to happen, or do they still believe something might change?
O'DONNELL: Well, no, they know she's dying, all this time. She doesn't have food. She doesn't have water. They're hoping, though, that Michael will somehow in the last hour have compassion and give them back -- give her back to them.
COOPER: They have given up on hope of legal remedy? They've given up on Governor Bush somehow intervening?
O'DONNELL: Well, it's all out there, and they hope something will come through. But it may not come through in time enough. We're just hoping and praying. Hoping that Michael has compassion.
COOPER: Michael Schindler -- Michael Schiavo has now said he wants an autopsy to be performed on Terri. He wants people to see what condition her brain was in. That's something the Schindlers had wanted all along. If the results of that autopsy show that what Michael Schiavo has said all along, is correct, does that matter to you, to the Schindlers?
O'DONNELL: Not really. I mean, whether or not -- we're professed Roman Catholics. We believe that food and water is not medicine. And in fact, it's obligatory -- morally obligatory. And so they would take care of their daughter no matter what. And so, we're just hoping and praying that Michael will have a sudden change of heart.
COOPER: How do you account for the differences in people's stories? I mean, you hear from Michael Schiavo's supporters who say Terri is peaceful, that she's not in pain. We hear from the Schindlers who say, she's calling out for help, she's trying to say words.
O'DONNELL: Well, you know, having worked with people in persistent vegetative states, and severely brain-injured persons, you can recognize body signs, like the wrinkles in the forehead or a scowl on the face. The fact that Terri has received morphine -- morphine is only given to relieve pain. So, you know, Mr. Felos' comments that she can't feel anything, it's not just as a comfort to the family. She was having real pain. She's had pain in the past. She's been on pain medication for 15 years in this condition.
COOPER: How do you account for the discrepancies in the stories there? Is there someone not telling the truth?
O'DONNELL: Absolutely, there is someone not telling the truth. And I guarantee you, it's not me. I have worked with people dying, and every other person in this hospice facility, they're allowed to have their mouth swabbed out with a mixture of what we did in the hospice of water, hydrogen peroxide, and a mouth wash. And we swab their mouths out with (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We would put Vaseline on the lips. We would continue to keep them hydrated even if they didn't feel like eating. Terri gets a dry Q-tip. It's inhumane.
COOPER: Paul O'Donnell, appreciate you being with us. Thank you very much.
O'DONNELL: Thank you.
COOPER: Well, not everyone of course here feels the same way about Terri Schiavo's condition. At 360, we do not take sides. We try to cover all the angles, especially in this case.
Joining me now from Dunedin, Florida is George Felos, attorney for Michael Schiavo. George, thank you very much for being with us.
Today, Terri's brother, Bobby Schindler, said that police prevented Terri from receiving communion. Why was that?
GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: The sacraments have been given to Terri on numerous occasions. We had a hearing before the court before her feeding tube was removed, and the court ordered that communion be administered the day the feeding tube be removed, and administered one time after that. And both of those things were done. So Mr. Schiavo, as he always has, has scrupulously adhered to the court orders.
COOPER: We just heard Brother O'Donnell saying that...
FELOS: And...
COOPER: Go ahead.
FELOS: And I may say that Terri has the services, as does Michael, of the hospice priest and hospice chaplain, and they have performed spiritual communion on Terri on numerous occasions.
COOPER: We just heard from Brother O'Donnell who said, you know, her mouth has not been swabbed with ice, that in other hospice cases, other people he's worked with, other people in this hospice, they are allowed to at least have that. Your response?
FELOS: Well, he's never seen Terri. And he's never visited her. I have seen her many times since the feeding tube was removed. I was with her just within the past hour. Her lips are -- her lips have moisturizer on them. There are no cracks in her lips. Her skin tone is excellent. She's being cared for by many compassionate and highly trained hospice workers. She's in a peaceful condition. She's in a restful condition. She's under no distress. She hasn't even received Tylenol for pain relief because she's not in pain. She's receiving excellent care, Anderson.
COOPER: What is -- take us inside her room, if you can. You were just there, you said within the hour. What is it like in the room? What is the atmosphere like? How do people talk to her? What is it like?
FELOS: It's very peaceful. There's a very loving atmosphere. The hospice workers are very attached to Terri. There is music playing. I heard Debussy's "Claire de Lune" playing. Terri has a stuffed animal under her arm. There are flowers, there are religious pictures. It's a very calm and peaceful atmosphere.
COOPER: I want to end with the same question that I asked Brother O'Donnell. How do you account for the discrepancies in both these sides' stories? I mean, you talk to people on the Schindler side, and they say, you know, she's crying out for help. You talk to you or representatives from Michael Schiavo, and we hear that it's peaceful. Is somebody not telling the truth?
FELOS: Well, of course, there's always the possibility of difference in perception. And obviously, the parents and the siblings are desperate. And desperation may lead to different perception or different statements. I can only tell you what I have seen. And Terri is dying a very peaceful, cared-for death. And she's dying with dignity. And that is what this case was all about for her. She didn't want to be kept alive artificially, she wanted to die with dignity, and she is receiving her wish.
COOPER: George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, we appreciate you being with us. Thanks very much, George.
Our special coverage of the battle over Terri Schiavo continues tonight live from Pinellas Park, the hospice where Terri Schiavo now lies dying. We'll be back from Pinellas Park in just a few moments. Right now, Heidi Collins in New York -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Thanks, Anderson.
360 next, a sidewalk shooting you couldn't forget, caught on tape. The survivor speaks out.
Also tonight, judgments made in the blink of an eye. Do tall people get better dates? Part of our special series.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Who could forget that unbelievable moment outside a court in California, where a man opened fire on an attorney whose life was saved by a tree. You just saw it there. Tonight, we're bringing you up to date on the people involved in that bizarre shooting. A shooting that was remarkably caught on tape. CNN's Miguel Marquez reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was Halloween, October 31st, 2003. Gerry Curry, a lawyer, walked out of a Southern California courtroom, and into a horror story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do we have a first aid kit? Give me a first aid kit over here.
MARQUEZ: The man with the gun is William Strier. He was angry at Curry, angry about legal work Curry had done for him, angry enough to kill, or at least try to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was angry. He was very focused, yes. He just kept saying, you know, that's what he gets for taking my money.
MARQUEZ: After emptying his revolver, Strier strolled off, as though nothing had happened.
Daniel Diaz, a local L.A. video journalist followed alongside Strier. He shot video with one hand, and pointed Strier out with the other, until he was finally tackled, then swarmed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where's the gun?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the right pocket of the jacket.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I remember this really loud pop, because I remember my ears ringing.
MARQUEZ: Curry, a probate and estate planning lawyer, was shot five times.
CURRY: He hit me three times here, these bullets went in and out. And he also hit me in the right forearm. This bullet went in the forearm and ended up in the top of my arm here. And the first shot, when he shot me when I came out of the courthouse, he shot me in the neck, right here.
MARQUEZ: After the first bullet went in his neck and lodged near his spine, Curry had seconds to decide: Run away or run for cover.
CURRY: Because I was worried if I ran away, he could shoot me in the back and just kill me.
MARQUEZ: Curry ran for the nearest tree. Only about two feet around, it was wide enough to protect him from a fatal shot.
CURRY: I was trying to keep the tree between the gun and my head. I was trying to protect my head and my torso. And so if he went right, I went the other way.
MARQUEZ: Media was everywhere that day. The courthouse in Van Nuys is the same place where Robert Blake was defending himself on a murder charge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Blake, how does it feel to be out here? MARQUEZ: On a normal day, the focus was on the famous defendant. In an instant, it was on William Strier. He has since been found incompetent to stand trial, but a new competency hearing is scheduled for late April.
Gerry Curry still practices law. He often walks by the tree, and believes it was his lawyerly fast thinking that saved his life.
CURRY: Trial lawyers have to think quickly on their feet, so I think maybe my training as a lawyer helped me out, because you have to think very quickly.
MARQUEZ: Miguel Marquez, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: It is unbelievable watching that again.
Meanwhile now, Erica Hill is joining us from HEADLINE NEWS with the latest headlines at about quarter until the hour. Hi, Erica.
HILL: Hi, Heidi. Good to see you.
Thirty-eight Guantanamo detainees, we are learning, are going back to their home countries. They're being released following the completion of combatant status reviews of U.S. Naval base in Cuba. Now, the Navy says 520 detainees have had their enemy combatant status confirmed; 38 have had theirs reversed. Officials say some of the detainees being released may have had ties to al Qaeda, but there wasn't enough information to back up those claims.
Attorney Johnnie Cochran, probably best known for his defense of O.J. Simpson, is dead. He was 67 and suffering from a neurological disorder. Cochran's colorful defense in the Simpson murder trial included the memorable reference to a bloody glove, rather, you might remember this one, "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit." Simpson says he loved Cochran as, in his words, "a good Christian man and a great lawyer." He died with his family by his side.
The Reverend Jerry Falwell is in critical condition at a Virginia hospital after having trouble breathing. The spokesman says the 71- year-old is suffering from respiratory arrest, but is alert and responding to questions. There are no signs he suffered a heart attack. Falwell was treated for pneumonia at the same hospital last month.
And remember the shark frenzy that closed some beaches last week off Australia's Gold Coast? Well, a similar sight in Deerfield Beach, Florida today forced the closure of beaches there. Officials decided to keep people away from the water as a precaution. The good news, no one was hurt. Shark sightings have also occurred at beaches in Palm Beach County in recent weeks, closing those beaches there. So bottom line, Heidi, I think I'm staying out of the water for a while.
COLLINS: It makes my hair stand up. I hate that. All right, Erica, thanks so much. And we're going to have another update in about 30 minutes.
360 next now, the height of injustice. Why it seems short people are being shafted when it comes to love and money. Part of our special series.
Also tonight, Anderson takes us beyond the headlines in the battle over Terri Schiavo with his "Reporter's Notebook."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Samantha Jones. Public relations. Very nice. You must do well, like who's going to say no to you? What do you say to dinner Friday night?
KIM CATTRALL, ACTRESS: I think that might work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And just as her self-esteem was soaring, right off the charts...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice to meet you, pink lady. I'll give you a call.
CATTRALL: Bye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Samantha in "Sex and the City" a bit surprised after realizing she was being hit on by a vertically challenged man. It looks like she may have been turned off in the blink of an eye. And all this week, as part of our special series, we're looking at those split-second decisions, which are the focus of the new best-selling book, "Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking," by Malcolm Gladwell. Tonight, Gary Tuchman sizes up the difference height makes to a man's bottom line when it comes to money and relationships.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (voice-over): It is rare to be 6 feet tall or over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 5'9''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 5'10''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 5'7''.
TUCHMAN: Only 15 percent of American men are six feet or over. So why have 42 percent of the American presidents have been six feet or over? And why are a stunning 58 percent of "Fortune 500" CEOs that tall?
Malcolm Gladwell is the gatherer of these facts, and the author of the best selling book, "Blink." MALCOLM GLADWELL, AUTHOR: There are thousands of other facts that are more important than this, but I think it is impossible to deny that on some level, our decision about who ought to lead a company is being hijacked by a consideration that ought not to be on the table, and that is whether somebody is over 6 foot or not.
TUCHMAN: Gladwell says each extra inch of height adds almost $800 to a man's annual salary -- another reminder that people often subconsciously associate positive qualities such as leadership ability with the person's physical stature.
We wanted to see if some of the same types of judgments affect relationships. We recruited seven single men of different heights.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 5'6 1/2''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 6'3''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 5'3''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 6'1''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 5'6''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 6'1''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 5'6''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was born in Jersey.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really. Where in Jersey?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Parsippany.
TUCHMAN: We brought them to HurryDate, a New York City-based company that matches men and women up on four-minute dates.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rotate!
TUCHMAN: And gives them a chance to go on about 20 of those dates in less than 90 minutes.
We have given our guys special questionnaires we've prepared, so their dates can rate them on various character issues, ranging from leadership ability to confidence.
Tall guy Nick is smooth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the weekend, what do you like to do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I enjoy skiing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Skiing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
TUCHMAN: So is short guy, Doug.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I play in the dodgeball league, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you see that movie, "Dodgeball"?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I did see the movie.
TUCHMAN: Tall Mike is cultured.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just got out for a weekend in Paris (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Been all over the place. It's great.
TUCHMAN: Short David has a wry sense of humor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cello. Do you know what a cello is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think so. Isn't it an instrument?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is.
TUCHMAN: We have not yet told the women why we are asking them to fill out the questionnaires after talking to each of our recruits, but we're hoping to find out if they are making snap judgments based on height.
(on camera): The women here have been very generous with their numbers. But even now, before this night is over, we're already seeing a pattern developing. And that is the taller guys are getting the taller numbers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So where are you from?
TUCHMAN (voice-over): It's not scientific, but the results are consistent. On a one to 10 scale, our final survey shows our shorts guys with a 7.7 when it comes to being outgoing. The tall guys, a 7.8. It was the only question that close.
Is he confident? Short guy, 7.8; tall guy, 8.3.
Could he be a good leader? The margin starts to get wider: short guy, 6.9; tall guy, 7.8.
And the biggest difference: could he be a good provider? 6.9 for the short guys; 8.1 for the tall guys.
Initially, none of the women we talked with after their 20 dates, say they consciously gave taller men higher scores for the character issues. But, after asking them to think about it...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was much more about body language. And maybe it's true that men who are taller project more of an air of confidence in terms of their body language. I'm not sure.
TUCHMAN: While some of the women are concerned height from a physical stand point...
How tall are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm about 5'10, but with heels about 6'2.
TUCHMAN: Others say they are now conscious of their subconscious.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People who are taller are perceived as better leaders.
TUCHMAN: And do you perceive that to be the case?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think I do, yes.
TUCHMAN: Malcolm Gladwell's book is about choices made in an instant, a blink. Often we make brilliant decisions in seconds, but prejudging can lead to mistakes, so keep your mind open when it comes to height.
Gladwell thinks height might be one of the last barriers of prejudice to fall, because it's at a more primal level. By the way, at the end of our night of hurry-dating, matches are totalled up. The men pick the women they like, the women pick the men they liked. When it was all figured out, our short men with four matches, our tall men had nine matches.
Life is not always fair, Heidi.
COLLINS: And you know, some of those women, in the beginning, said, oh, no, no, no, no, we're not prejudging anybody, but then, they kind of admitted it. Were they embarrassed?
TUCHMAN: It was very funny. None of them thought they were prejudging, cause we told them at the very end, this was all about height. Ah, we would never discriminate about height when it comes to character, but then they thought about it and, yes, they were a bit embarrassed, and realized perhaps they have done it in the past, too.
COLLINS: All right. Gary Tuchman, 6'1 that you are, thank you for that.
We want to take a moment out to find out what's coming up next on "PAULA ZAHN NOW." And Paula joins us for that.
Hi, Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Heidi. Thanks so much.
We are focusing, of course, on that big story in Pinellas Park, Florida. Bob and Mary Schindler are more than just two faces on camera, at news conferences these days, more than just one side of a family fight that has become a national debate. They are loving parents, devoted to their daughter, Terri Schiavo. Tonight, "Who are the Schindlers?" Also, joining us tonight, Revered Jesse Jackson, who the Schindlers have reached out to, to try to improve their chances of saving their daughter's life, Heidi. A lot emotions flying in Florida tonight, and we'll be tapping into all of them. COLLINS: Oh, boy, that's for sure. All right, Paula Zahn, thank you.
I want to send it back now to Anderson Cooper who's standing by now in Pinellas Park, Florida, once again.
Anderson?
COOPER: Heidi, thanks. Yes, the protests, of course, here continue. I have been reporting this story extensively for the past week. I have seen the protests on television, but actually being here in person -- it's a whole different story. We want to take you beyond the headlines right now, in our "Reporter's Notebook."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): "Welcome to the show," that's what someone said to me when I arrived at Terri Schiavo's hospice. At first, I didn't realize what he meant. It didn't take long to figure it out. The scene outside the hospice is somber and surreal. There are protests and prayers, and people with causes, looking for a camera.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm with Smash Alley Underground, which is just a Christian rock group.
COOPER: Walking around, it seems like everyone wants to be on TV. On some stories, you have to seek people out, convince them to talk. Here, they talk to you whether you've asked them to or not. Some people laugh, others talk, some just stand silently, waiting for something. They're not even sure what.
COOPER: Why is your arm up?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PROTESTER: I don't know.
COOPER: Just about everyone you talk to says, they're here because they feel connected to Terri.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Christy today can go ah--ah, and she laughs all the time.
COOPER: This woman came all the way from Tennessee.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We hurt for that family. We really do.
COOPER: The emotions are very real. You see tears and tempers and everything in-between. A few hundred feet away, Terri Schiavo lays dying. Outside, the hours slowly slip by.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: It's a real ebb and a flow to the crowds here who come to stand, to watch, to wait. At some point, there are several hundred protesters here. On Easter Sunday, I'm told there were several hundred. Now, the crowds sort of dwindle, especially as the evening goes on. During the day, people go off to work, but then people come back here. Few of the people are really from Florida. When you talk to people, they're from Tennessee. They have flown in. I talked to one man earlier today who'd flown in just for the day. He owns a bakery; he was flying back this evening. He said he just wanted to be here, and you sort of ask people, why they wanted to be here. What is it? And they say they feel a connection.
We're awaiting a press conference from the Schindlers, Terri Schiavo's parents, that is supposed to take place any moment now. It is going to take place just right behind me. The cameras have already gathered. I can see now, the Schindlers starting to move toward the podium. So that press conference will occur any moment now. They have been very vocal, of course, all during this week, and they continue to hold out hope, hope that something will happen. Hope that somebody will intervene, or that, perhaps, Michael Schiavo will somehow, in these final moments of Terri Schiavo's life, change his mind. It's an unlikely hope to hold on to, but at this point, it's all they have left. Their legal challenges have been turned down at court after court. They have no more legal recourse. All they can do is hold press conferences, try to build some sort of public momentum to get some sort of change here.
I can see now the -- we're probably about 30 seconds or about a minute away from the press conference, just so we know when to take it. It's a pretty common occurrence here, but rarely do you have the Schindlers announcing they're going to set up a particular time. Let's take a look at what they have to say, the Schindler family.
ROBERT SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: Once again, I thank you for all for being here. Mary would like to say something -- my wife, Mary, on behalf of the whole -- our family.
MARY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S MOTHER: Michael and Jody, you have your own children. Please, please give my child back to me.
(CROWD NOISE)
COOPER: That was Terri Schiavo's mother asking Michael Schiavo, her husband, to give her daughter back to her, referring not only to Michael Schiavo, but the woman he now is in a relationship with, the woman he has two children with. The Schindlers, all along, have said that he has a new life, he has his own life, and that Terri Schiavo is their life, and is still in their life. Michael Schiavo, of course, saying that he has responsibilities to Terri Schiavo still. He continues to be by her side, and he continues to make decisions -- he has the medical right, the legal right to do that.
Our coverage of this extraordinary event continues in just a moment with CNN's prime time coverage. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Thanks very much for watching us on this special edition of 360, live from Pinellas Park, Florida. CNN's prime time coverage continues now with Paula Zahn.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 29, 2005 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from Pinellas Park, Florida. I'm Anderson Cooper.
We begin with breaking news. The man who defended O.J. Simpson, Johnnie Cochran, is dead.
360 starts now.
ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360, with Anderson Cooper in Pinellas Park, Florida, and Heidi Collins in New York.
COOPER: Good evening again.
We are live here in Pinellas Park, Florida, at Hospice House Woodside to cover what must be the last chapter in the long, sad story of Terri Schindler Schiavo.
Before we turn to her, though, we have breaking news to report to you tonight. Johnnie Cochran, the flamboyant, influential, and enormously successful attorney who represented O.J. Simpson, among other controversial clients, died today of cancer at his Los Angeles home. He was 67 years old.
CNN's Eric Philips has more now on the life and death of the man who may have the best-known lawyer -- may have been the best-known lawyer of the age.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERIC PHILIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The 1995 O.J. Simpson trial and acquittal made Johnnie Cochran a household name.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNNIE COCHRAN, O.J. SIMPSON'S ATTORNEY: If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILIPS: Cochran led the Simpson dream team of defense attorneys. And while his courtroom tactics were alternately praised and denounced, he convinced the jury that race not only influenced the police investigation of Simpson but defined the case against him.
Cochran served as counsel to many black celebrities, but his passion was taking on cases involving police misconduct, often aimed at the Los Angeles Police Department. After the L.A. riots in 1992, he represented Reginald Denny, a white truck driver beaten by a black mob. Cochran argued the LAPD was guilty of discrimination for failing to protect the neighborhood where his client was assaulted.
He also represented Abner Luima, the Haitian immigrant sodomized with a broken broomstick by two New York City policemen.
And he defended former Black Panther Party leader Geronimo Pratt in a 1972 murder trial. Cochran lost that case, but perseverance led to his client's release from prison 25 years later.
Cochran credited his family for his steadfastness. A Louisiana native, and the great-grandson of a slave, he grew up in Los Angeles, and served as a deputy city attorney before building his own practice and launching his own show on Court TV.
Johnnie Cochran will be remembered as a brilliant attorney who knew how to make a point and how to make it stick.
I'm Eric Phillips reporting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: He certainly did know how to make a point and make it stick.
Joining me now is someone who came to know Johnnie Cochran very well. In New York, CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, who spent months inside the courtroom covering the O.J. Simpson trial.
Jeffrey, good to see you.
You watched every day of the O.J. Simpson trial. You wrote a book on the trial. What do you think of Johnnie Cochran in that courtroom?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: He was really the only larger-than-life person I have ever seen operating in a courtroom. He took the oxygen out of any room he went into. And that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) took place before, during, and after the Simpson case.
He really was one of the most charismatic people I've ever met in my life. And that was very much to O.J. Simpson's benefit.
COOPER: And what was the charisma? I mean, what about it? Was it -- I mean, we all know the turn of phrase, there's no -- if it doesn't fit, you must acquit. But it, but charisma goes farther than that.
TOOBIN: That's right. It was a combination of intelligence, and a wonderful instinct -- wonderful for his client -- of taking a theme and working it every single day in the courtroom.
You know, he always had a purpose. He wasn't just trying to, you know, sort of damage a witness. It was always to damage a government witness with the intent of proving, at least in the case I followed most closely, that O.J. Simpson was the victim of a racist government conspiracy in Los Angeles. And every move, every gesture, every question was intended to achieve that aim.
COOPER: And where did he learn that? I mean, is that something you just develop over time in doing cases, or is that something, you know, you either got or you don't?
TOOBIN: No, I think, you know, he really -- his -- the theme of, you know, racial discrimination, you know, was, was throughout his career. In 1966, when he was a 29-year-old lawyer, he represented the family of a man named Leonard Deadwyler, who was killed by the Los Angeles Police in a coroner's investigation. He got a lot of attention in Los Angeles.
And from that moment, when he was 29 years old, in case after case, he proved, at least to the satisfaction of many juries, that there was police misconduct.
You know, personally, as he knew, I didn't believe him in the Simpson case. I didn't think there was any racist conspiracy. But he was very successful in proving that, and he won a lot of acquittals and made a lot of money for his clients.
COOPER: Yes, he certainly did. I mean, he had a lot of stars, Michael Jackson's 1993 molestation allegations. He represented Sean P. Diddy Combs. Jury selection at that trial, one juror reportedly called Cochran the most famous lawyer on Earth. I guess that's true.
TOOBIN: I mean, I really think it's hard to think of anyone else who would fit that, fit that, meaning, I mean, just remember, in the last episode of "Seinfeld," which was watched by, I believe, almost 100 million people, the key character was a Johnnie Cochran impersonator, which suggests that, you know, his cultural influence was beyond that of certainly any lawyer, and probably any judge, you can think of.
Far more Americans could pick Johnnie Cochran out of a lineup than could pick William Rehnquist out of a lineup.
COOPER: All right. Well, Jeffrey Toobin, thank you very much for your reflections tonight. Thank you very.
TOOBIN: OK.
COOPER: Johnnie Cochran, dead at the age of 67.
Coming up next on this special edition of 360, life-and-death decisions. Terri Schiavo hangs on for life right here in Pinellas Park, Florida. We are live outside Hospice House Woodside. She is hanging onto life. The battle continues over what to do with her now, and what to do with her after she dies. We're going to hear from all sides tonight.
Plus, ahead, confessions of a high school killer. Find out what drove this teenager over the edge.
Also ahead tonight, sidewalk shooting caught on tape. An angry client opens fire on a lawyer in broad daylight. You've seen that video. We're going to update you, hear from the man who was shot five times, lived to tell his tale. What is he doing? And what is the shooter doing now?
All that ahead. First, your picks, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back to our special edition of 360.
We are live from Pinellas Park, Florida. I am standing far from alone, as you can see, outside the hospice. That's a shot of the front door of the hospice. Inside, Terri Schiavo lays dying. It is day 12 for her, no food, no water. Forty-one-year-old Terri Schiavo's life is coming to an end.
Those in favor of letting her go say it is a peaceful and appropriate end for someone in her condition. Those opposed say she is suffering and even now could recover if her feeding tube were reinstated, even though the legal avenues toward that end all have been exhausted.
Those struggling over Terri, however, are not exhausted. And today, a new voice added to the crowd. The Reverend Jesse Jackson showed up here at her hospice to support the Schindler family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
REV. JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW PUSH COALITION: Yesterday, Mrs. Schindler and Bobby called me and asked me, would I come and pray with them and be with them. And I was anxious to do so, because this is one of the profound moral, ethical issues of our time, the saving of Terri's life. And today we pray for a miracle.
ROBERT SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: I saw Terri earlier this morning, and she's failing. She still looks pretty darn good under the circumstances, but you can see the impact of 12 days without food or water that it's having on her. And I pray to God that she continues to have the strength to go on.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
COOPER: Well, that's Terri Schiavo's father, who is trying to save his daughter's life.
We are about just a few hundred feet from the hospice. It's just over there to my shoulder. You can see a number of the protesters. They have been here, of course, all week long. The numbers ebb and flow. There are several dozen out here at this point. And they will stay out here. Many are camping out here. You see people in little pup tents. There you see carrying the flag. Protesters of all sorts coming from all around the country. Both Terri Schiavo's parents and her husband now want an autopsy to be performed on her body after she dies. This has been a point of contention for quite some time. They both agree on this. As for what happens after that autopsy has been done, the two sides remain, as they have in nearly everything else up to now, opposed.
David Mattingly has more now on the final struggle for Terri Schiavo.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terri, don't do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The sharp discord that has followed Terri Schiavo in her final years of life may follow her into death as well.
GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: It's been reported to me that some persons were questioning Mr. Schiavo's motives in having Mrs. Schiavo cremated.
MATTINGLY: Relentlessly criticized for his decision to remove the life-sustaining feeding tube by friends and family of Terri Schiavo, who reject the diagnosis she is in a persistent vegetative state, Michael Schiavo, according to his attorney, has requested an autopsy be performed, and the results be made public.
FELOS: He believes it's important to have the public know the full and massive extent of the damage to Mrs. Schiavo's brain that occurred through the cardiac arrest in 1990.
MATTINGLY: But the decision to have the autopsy conducted by a county medical examiner may not be enough to satisfy Terri Schiavo's family, the Schindlers. Their attorney already suggests experts in cases of abuse and strangulation may be needed in the autopsy to answer their questions about what caused her brain damage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened in 1990? Was there any type of strangulation or abuse or anything that occurred? I think those issues need to be addressed. What kind of condition is Terri in? What kind of condition is her mind and her body in? Did she have a heart attack? There's a lot of things that can be known. And I think for the family and for all involved, getting good answers is a very good thing.
MATTINGLY: But experts caution that an autopsy will produce limited findings. Questions about injuries that may or may not have occurred 15 years ago may go unanswered, while questions about the condition of her brain and the diagnosis of a persistent vegetative state could be resolved clearly.
DR. CYRIL WECHT: What the autopsy can tell you is what she died of, that is to say, whether there truly is this significant brain damage.
MATTINGLY: The Florida circuit court again reaffirmed Michael Schiavo's authority to make the decisions to have his wife's remains cremated and buried in Pennsylvania, where they grew up. On Tuesday, Judge George Greer turned down the Schindlers' emergency request to have their daughter buried in Florida without cremation.
PAUL O'DONNELL, SCHINDLER FAMILY SPIRITUAL ADVISER: In our tradition, we like to have the body there at the liturgy, and then afterwards, that it's buried in a dignified place, because we believe that the glorified soul will be reunited with the body one day.
MATTINGLY: As far back as November 2002, Michael Schiavo has claimed to be acting on the wishes of his wife, Terri, and not his own. He was quoted in the newspaper "St. Petersburg Times" saying, "She never wanted to be put in the ground with bugs. She always told me that."
The judge found Schiavo's plans to be consistent with Roman Catholicism. Schiavo's only obligation is to notify the Schindlers of any memorial services and the location of the cemetery.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: You know, David, David, if this was a movie, in the final scenes, both these sides of the family would come together. That's not going to happen, happen here.
MATTINGLY: No, the two families could not be further apart. And they seem to be even getting further apart by the day. You talk to them privately, and they will tell you how much they're going to be grieving at Terri's passing. But there's no indication that they will be grieving together. It would take something extraordinary for that to happen.
COOPER: And they used to be close. I mean, Michael Schiavo lived with the Schindlers, even after Terri's -- was hospitalized.
MATTINGLY: And you see some of that in the court records. They talk about what a wonderful son-in-law he was. But there was a tremendous break in this family. And it just keeps getting wider all the time.
COOPER: And now there's talking that he wasn't such a wonderful son -- the story -- many different versions of the story at this point.
David Mattingly, thanks.
A quick news note now Another protester was arrested today, the 47th person put in handcuffs here in Pinellas Park outside Terri Schiavo's hospice. Today, a Pennsylvania man was tackled by police -- there you see it happening -- tackled by police, shocked with a stun gun after trying to dash past security into the hospice.
Police say Dow Persley (ph), who has been charged with attempted burglary and resisting arrest without violence, was carrying two bottles of water, that is him there, but never made it past the hospice door.
There is a lot more to talk about concerning this case. On 360, we get all the angles. In just a few moments, we're going to talk with two key players in the struggle over Terri Schiavo, the Schindler family's spiritual adviser, Brother Paul O'Donnell, and the attorney for Michael Schiavo, George Felos.
All that is ahead.
The first lady sneaks out of the country for a surprise visit with the troops. Erica Hill from Headline News has the evening's headlines. Good evening, Erica.
ERICA HILL, HEADLINE NEWS: Hi, Anderson, good to see you.
That's right, First Lady Laura Bush is now on her way to Afghanistan for a quick visit. The White House says she'll make a stop in Kabul to highlight advances made by women since the fall of the Taliban. She will also meet with Afghan President Hamid Karzai and have dinner with U.S. troops at Bagram Air Base before she returns to Washington on Thursday.
People still trying to put their lives back together from December's tsunami in Indonesia are once again searching for victims and survivors of a devastating earthquake. The Indonesian government says about 330 people were killed in yesterday's massive quake, most on the island of Nias. Nearly 30 percent of the buildings in the island's largest city were destroyed. Officials say the death toll could reach 2000.
A former top official of the Boy Scouts of America will be in court tomorrow to face charges he downloaded child pornography on his computer. Douglas Smith is expected to plead guilty to receiving and distributing child pornography. He retired from the Boy Scouts in February after a 39-year career with the group. An official for the Boy Scouts says Smith's job did not involve working with children directly.
And Blockbuster, get ready to pay up. In an effort to clear up any confusion over its no-late-fees policy, the company has agreed to pay $630,000 to settle a case brought by 47 states that said people were misled by that new policy. So from now on, receipts will show the amount customers would owe for failing to return a movie within a seven-day grace period.
And that is the latest for Headline News. Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: I'm still confused by that, but I'll take your word for it. Erica Hill, thanks very much. We'll see you again in about 30 minutes.
We are focusing in depth tonight on the battle over Terri Schiavo. I'm live in Pinellas Park, Florida, just outside her hospice, where protesters continue to beat drums, to blow horns, to try to get attention on this story. We're going to talk to representatives from both camps in this story just ahead on 360.
But first, let's go to Heidi Collins in New York. Hey, Heidi.
HEIDI COLLINS, HOST: Hey, Anderson, thanks.
360 next now, confessions of a teen killer. Find out what role bullying played in a high school shooting. We have the tapes.
Plus, Anderson Cooper live in Pinellas Park, Florida, where we'll hear from both sides of Terri Schiavo's family.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the father of a teenager charged in connection with last week's school massacre in Minnesota says his son is innocent. Reports say the 16-year-old boy is accused of conspiring with Jeff Weise to help plan the March 21st rampage at Red Lake High School. Weise killed nine people before committing suicide. All day, this has been one of the most viewed stories on CNN.com. And every day, 360's Rudi Bakhtiar looks into those Web stories to bring you an angle you won't see anywhere else.
Rudi, what'd you find out tonight?
RUDI BAKHTIAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Heidi.
Yes, we got some troubling -- we got ahold of a troubling survey about what students at Red Lake High School are thinking about. A poll of 56 ninth-graders showed 81 percent of the girls, 43 percent of the boys, considered suicide . And even more disturbing is that 50 percent of the girls, 20 percent of the boys actually tried to kill themselves. And also another teenager who didn't want to live turned his depression into a school shooting spree, and he spelled out the reason for it in this chilling videotape confession we're about to show you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BAKHTIAR: 16-year-old Luke Woodham woke up early on October 1st, 1997.
LUKE WOODHAM, TROUBLED TEEN: You can ask anybody at school. They'll tell you, I just -- I hated -- I really hated the world.
BAKHTIAR: Before heading to school, the 6'1, stalky young man beat his mother with a baseball bat and then stabbed her to death. In a taped confession, Luke told investigators his mother never loved him.
WOODHAM: She always told me I wouldn't amount to anything. She always told me that I was fat and stupid and lazy.
BAKHTIAR: Luke arrived at his Pearl, Mississippi, high school carrying a rifle which he hid under a trench coat. His first target was his former girlfriend.
WOODHAM: I ran inside the school, ran up to Christina -- bam, right in the heart.
BAKHTIAR: Luke shot to death 16-year-old Christina Menefee and her friend, Lydia Dew. He wounded seven others.
WOODHAM: I knew that once I killed her, that you know, I knew I was going to snap. I just wanted to kill her.
BAKHTIAR: In his taped confession, he returned again and again to the pain he felt after Christina broke up with him the year before.
WOODHAM: She'd always flirt with other guys. She always did that kind of crap, right to my face. She'd always tell me how cute other guys were, and all this kind of crap, and it just gets to you. I mean, I loved her, and she just didn't care.
BAKHTIAR: Luke was a bright boy who says he was picked on by his peers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of people talked bad about him, made fun of him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just, like, kept quiet. And he was, like, weird.
WOODHAM: It all built up inside of me, over time. People always picked on me. They always called me gay and stupid stuff like that.
BAKHTIAR: Michael Welner is a forensic psychologist.
MICHAEL WELNER, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: With such a spectacular crime, it's clear that so many things have to come together, but, because there's qualities that Luke Woodham had that a number of high school students at risk would share. Clearly, there are a lot of people who have this sense that they're a nobody and going nowhere, and don't have much hope, and don't have much support to go forward. So, it's the idea of a person who is not only a nobody but is reminded when he goes to school, in that environment, that he's going to continue to be a nobody.
BAKHTIAR: In his confession, Luke wavered between emotional vulnerability...
WOODHAM: It turns out, the whole time we were going out, she was making fun of me behind my back. And I mean, they just -- and...
BAKHTIAR: ...and what sounds like arrogant boasting.
WOODHAM: Well, I guess the world's going to remember me now. I'm probably going to get pretty famous.
BAKHTIAR: When it came time for trial, Luke's own words about why he went on the rampage came back to haunt him.
WOODHAM: I'm not insane, sir, all right? I knew what I was doing. I was just really pissed at the time.
BAKHTIAR: A jury twice rejected his temporary insanity defense. He's serving three consecutive life sentences.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BAKHTIAR: And, Heidi, we had a chance to call the jail and ask a little bit about his status right now. He's in solitary confinement. He's allowed an hour a day to go out into the outdoors and spend about an hour outdoors. He's had no infractions.
And we also have this picture of him, what he looks like today. You know, he was 17 when he was arrested because of the shooting. And that's what Luke Woodham looks like today.
COLLINS: The whole thing is troubling.
BAKHTIAR: Very. Thank you.
COLLINS: Thanks. Cooper, back to you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Day 12, no food, no water. Terri Schiavo clinging to life. Tonight, her family's desperate, final attempts to keep her alive.
ROBERT SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: We still have her. And it's not too late to save her.
COOPER: Caught on tape, a man shot at point blank range.
GERRY CURRY, SHOOTING VICTIM: I was trying to keep the tree between the gun and my head.
COOPER: Tonight, whatever happened to the man who dodged bullets behind a tree?
And does size really matter when it comes to career and love? Tonight, we put the myth to the test, and find out why short people may be short-changed on salary, status, and respect.
360 continues.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. JESSE JACKSON, SUPPORTS SCHINDLER FAMILY: Without water or food, without even ice cubes for her lips for 12 days, she is still alive. That should send a message to all of us, that while law is important, it must be tempered with mercy to have justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was the Reverend Jesse Jackson, earlier today, going against, perhaps, some of his political allies to support the Schindlers, as a man of faith. The Reverend isn't the only person of the cloth here in Pinellas Park pleading for Terri Schiavo's life: Brother Paul O'Donnell, the Schindler family's spiritual advisor, also spoke out, as he has done on many occasions. And he joins me now.
Brother Paul, thanks very much for being with us. Brother O'Donnell, how are the Schindlers doing?
BRO. PAUL O'DONNELL, SCHINDLER SPIRITUAL ADVISER: Well, they're not doing very well right now. They're concerned about Terri, and she's dying. And she's dying of starvation and dehydration.
COOPER: Have they accepted that as -- that is what is going to happen, or do they still believe something might change?
O'DONNELL: Well, no, they know she's dying, all this time. She doesn't have food. She doesn't have water. They're hoping, though, that Michael will somehow in the last hour have compassion and give them back -- give her back to them.
COOPER: They have given up on hope of legal remedy? They've given up on Governor Bush somehow intervening?
O'DONNELL: Well, it's all out there, and they hope something will come through. But it may not come through in time enough. We're just hoping and praying. Hoping that Michael has compassion.
COOPER: Michael Schindler -- Michael Schiavo has now said he wants an autopsy to be performed on Terri. He wants people to see what condition her brain was in. That's something the Schindlers had wanted all along. If the results of that autopsy show that what Michael Schiavo has said all along, is correct, does that matter to you, to the Schindlers?
O'DONNELL: Not really. I mean, whether or not -- we're professed Roman Catholics. We believe that food and water is not medicine. And in fact, it's obligatory -- morally obligatory. And so they would take care of their daughter no matter what. And so, we're just hoping and praying that Michael will have a sudden change of heart.
COOPER: How do you account for the differences in people's stories? I mean, you hear from Michael Schiavo's supporters who say Terri is peaceful, that she's not in pain. We hear from the Schindlers who say, she's calling out for help, she's trying to say words.
O'DONNELL: Well, you know, having worked with people in persistent vegetative states, and severely brain-injured persons, you can recognize body signs, like the wrinkles in the forehead or a scowl on the face. The fact that Terri has received morphine -- morphine is only given to relieve pain. So, you know, Mr. Felos' comments that she can't feel anything, it's not just as a comfort to the family. She was having real pain. She's had pain in the past. She's been on pain medication for 15 years in this condition.
COOPER: How do you account for the discrepancies in the stories there? Is there someone not telling the truth?
O'DONNELL: Absolutely, there is someone not telling the truth. And I guarantee you, it's not me. I have worked with people dying, and every other person in this hospice facility, they're allowed to have their mouth swabbed out with a mixture of what we did in the hospice of water, hydrogen peroxide, and a mouth wash. And we swab their mouths out with (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We would put Vaseline on the lips. We would continue to keep them hydrated even if they didn't feel like eating. Terri gets a dry Q-tip. It's inhumane.
COOPER: Paul O'Donnell, appreciate you being with us. Thank you very much.
O'DONNELL: Thank you.
COOPER: Well, not everyone of course here feels the same way about Terri Schiavo's condition. At 360, we do not take sides. We try to cover all the angles, especially in this case.
Joining me now from Dunedin, Florida is George Felos, attorney for Michael Schiavo. George, thank you very much for being with us.
Today, Terri's brother, Bobby Schindler, said that police prevented Terri from receiving communion. Why was that?
GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: The sacraments have been given to Terri on numerous occasions. We had a hearing before the court before her feeding tube was removed, and the court ordered that communion be administered the day the feeding tube be removed, and administered one time after that. And both of those things were done. So Mr. Schiavo, as he always has, has scrupulously adhered to the court orders.
COOPER: We just heard Brother O'Donnell saying that...
FELOS: And...
COOPER: Go ahead.
FELOS: And I may say that Terri has the services, as does Michael, of the hospice priest and hospice chaplain, and they have performed spiritual communion on Terri on numerous occasions.
COOPER: We just heard from Brother O'Donnell who said, you know, her mouth has not been swabbed with ice, that in other hospice cases, other people he's worked with, other people in this hospice, they are allowed to at least have that. Your response?
FELOS: Well, he's never seen Terri. And he's never visited her. I have seen her many times since the feeding tube was removed. I was with her just within the past hour. Her lips are -- her lips have moisturizer on them. There are no cracks in her lips. Her skin tone is excellent. She's being cared for by many compassionate and highly trained hospice workers. She's in a peaceful condition. She's in a restful condition. She's under no distress. She hasn't even received Tylenol for pain relief because she's not in pain. She's receiving excellent care, Anderson.
COOPER: What is -- take us inside her room, if you can. You were just there, you said within the hour. What is it like in the room? What is the atmosphere like? How do people talk to her? What is it like?
FELOS: It's very peaceful. There's a very loving atmosphere. The hospice workers are very attached to Terri. There is music playing. I heard Debussy's "Claire de Lune" playing. Terri has a stuffed animal under her arm. There are flowers, there are religious pictures. It's a very calm and peaceful atmosphere.
COOPER: I want to end with the same question that I asked Brother O'Donnell. How do you account for the discrepancies in both these sides' stories? I mean, you talk to people on the Schindler side, and they say, you know, she's crying out for help. You talk to you or representatives from Michael Schiavo, and we hear that it's peaceful. Is somebody not telling the truth?
FELOS: Well, of course, there's always the possibility of difference in perception. And obviously, the parents and the siblings are desperate. And desperation may lead to different perception or different statements. I can only tell you what I have seen. And Terri is dying a very peaceful, cared-for death. And she's dying with dignity. And that is what this case was all about for her. She didn't want to be kept alive artificially, she wanted to die with dignity, and she is receiving her wish.
COOPER: George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, we appreciate you being with us. Thanks very much, George.
Our special coverage of the battle over Terri Schiavo continues tonight live from Pinellas Park, the hospice where Terri Schiavo now lies dying. We'll be back from Pinellas Park in just a few moments. Right now, Heidi Collins in New York -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Thanks, Anderson.
360 next, a sidewalk shooting you couldn't forget, caught on tape. The survivor speaks out.
Also tonight, judgments made in the blink of an eye. Do tall people get better dates? Part of our special series.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Who could forget that unbelievable moment outside a court in California, where a man opened fire on an attorney whose life was saved by a tree. You just saw it there. Tonight, we're bringing you up to date on the people involved in that bizarre shooting. A shooting that was remarkably caught on tape. CNN's Miguel Marquez reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was Halloween, October 31st, 2003. Gerry Curry, a lawyer, walked out of a Southern California courtroom, and into a horror story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do we have a first aid kit? Give me a first aid kit over here.
MARQUEZ: The man with the gun is William Strier. He was angry at Curry, angry about legal work Curry had done for him, angry enough to kill, or at least try to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was angry. He was very focused, yes. He just kept saying, you know, that's what he gets for taking my money.
MARQUEZ: After emptying his revolver, Strier strolled off, as though nothing had happened.
Daniel Diaz, a local L.A. video journalist followed alongside Strier. He shot video with one hand, and pointed Strier out with the other, until he was finally tackled, then swarmed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where's the gun?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the right pocket of the jacket.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I remember this really loud pop, because I remember my ears ringing.
MARQUEZ: Curry, a probate and estate planning lawyer, was shot five times.
CURRY: He hit me three times here, these bullets went in and out. And he also hit me in the right forearm. This bullet went in the forearm and ended up in the top of my arm here. And the first shot, when he shot me when I came out of the courthouse, he shot me in the neck, right here.
MARQUEZ: After the first bullet went in his neck and lodged near his spine, Curry had seconds to decide: Run away or run for cover.
CURRY: Because I was worried if I ran away, he could shoot me in the back and just kill me.
MARQUEZ: Curry ran for the nearest tree. Only about two feet around, it was wide enough to protect him from a fatal shot.
CURRY: I was trying to keep the tree between the gun and my head. I was trying to protect my head and my torso. And so if he went right, I went the other way.
MARQUEZ: Media was everywhere that day. The courthouse in Van Nuys is the same place where Robert Blake was defending himself on a murder charge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Blake, how does it feel to be out here? MARQUEZ: On a normal day, the focus was on the famous defendant. In an instant, it was on William Strier. He has since been found incompetent to stand trial, but a new competency hearing is scheduled for late April.
Gerry Curry still practices law. He often walks by the tree, and believes it was his lawyerly fast thinking that saved his life.
CURRY: Trial lawyers have to think quickly on their feet, so I think maybe my training as a lawyer helped me out, because you have to think very quickly.
MARQUEZ: Miguel Marquez, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: It is unbelievable watching that again.
Meanwhile now, Erica Hill is joining us from HEADLINE NEWS with the latest headlines at about quarter until the hour. Hi, Erica.
HILL: Hi, Heidi. Good to see you.
Thirty-eight Guantanamo detainees, we are learning, are going back to their home countries. They're being released following the completion of combatant status reviews of U.S. Naval base in Cuba. Now, the Navy says 520 detainees have had their enemy combatant status confirmed; 38 have had theirs reversed. Officials say some of the detainees being released may have had ties to al Qaeda, but there wasn't enough information to back up those claims.
Attorney Johnnie Cochran, probably best known for his defense of O.J. Simpson, is dead. He was 67 and suffering from a neurological disorder. Cochran's colorful defense in the Simpson murder trial included the memorable reference to a bloody glove, rather, you might remember this one, "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit." Simpson says he loved Cochran as, in his words, "a good Christian man and a great lawyer." He died with his family by his side.
The Reverend Jerry Falwell is in critical condition at a Virginia hospital after having trouble breathing. The spokesman says the 71- year-old is suffering from respiratory arrest, but is alert and responding to questions. There are no signs he suffered a heart attack. Falwell was treated for pneumonia at the same hospital last month.
And remember the shark frenzy that closed some beaches last week off Australia's Gold Coast? Well, a similar sight in Deerfield Beach, Florida today forced the closure of beaches there. Officials decided to keep people away from the water as a precaution. The good news, no one was hurt. Shark sightings have also occurred at beaches in Palm Beach County in recent weeks, closing those beaches there. So bottom line, Heidi, I think I'm staying out of the water for a while.
COLLINS: It makes my hair stand up. I hate that. All right, Erica, thanks so much. And we're going to have another update in about 30 minutes.
360 next now, the height of injustice. Why it seems short people are being shafted when it comes to love and money. Part of our special series.
Also tonight, Anderson takes us beyond the headlines in the battle over Terri Schiavo with his "Reporter's Notebook."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Samantha Jones. Public relations. Very nice. You must do well, like who's going to say no to you? What do you say to dinner Friday night?
KIM CATTRALL, ACTRESS: I think that might work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And just as her self-esteem was soaring, right off the charts...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice to meet you, pink lady. I'll give you a call.
CATTRALL: Bye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Samantha in "Sex and the City" a bit surprised after realizing she was being hit on by a vertically challenged man. It looks like she may have been turned off in the blink of an eye. And all this week, as part of our special series, we're looking at those split-second decisions, which are the focus of the new best-selling book, "Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking," by Malcolm Gladwell. Tonight, Gary Tuchman sizes up the difference height makes to a man's bottom line when it comes to money and relationships.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (voice-over): It is rare to be 6 feet tall or over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 5'9''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 5'10''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 5'7''.
TUCHMAN: Only 15 percent of American men are six feet or over. So why have 42 percent of the American presidents have been six feet or over? And why are a stunning 58 percent of "Fortune 500" CEOs that tall?
Malcolm Gladwell is the gatherer of these facts, and the author of the best selling book, "Blink." MALCOLM GLADWELL, AUTHOR: There are thousands of other facts that are more important than this, but I think it is impossible to deny that on some level, our decision about who ought to lead a company is being hijacked by a consideration that ought not to be on the table, and that is whether somebody is over 6 foot or not.
TUCHMAN: Gladwell says each extra inch of height adds almost $800 to a man's annual salary -- another reminder that people often subconsciously associate positive qualities such as leadership ability with the person's physical stature.
We wanted to see if some of the same types of judgments affect relationships. We recruited seven single men of different heights.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 5'6 1/2''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 6'3''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 5'3''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 6'1''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 5'6''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 6'1''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 5'6''.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was born in Jersey.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really. Where in Jersey?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Parsippany.
TUCHMAN: We brought them to HurryDate, a New York City-based company that matches men and women up on four-minute dates.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rotate!
TUCHMAN: And gives them a chance to go on about 20 of those dates in less than 90 minutes.
We have given our guys special questionnaires we've prepared, so their dates can rate them on various character issues, ranging from leadership ability to confidence.
Tall guy Nick is smooth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the weekend, what do you like to do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I enjoy skiing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Skiing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
TUCHMAN: So is short guy, Doug.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I play in the dodgeball league, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you see that movie, "Dodgeball"?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I did see the movie.
TUCHMAN: Tall Mike is cultured.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just got out for a weekend in Paris (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Been all over the place. It's great.
TUCHMAN: Short David has a wry sense of humor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cello. Do you know what a cello is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think so. Isn't it an instrument?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is.
TUCHMAN: We have not yet told the women why we are asking them to fill out the questionnaires after talking to each of our recruits, but we're hoping to find out if they are making snap judgments based on height.
(on camera): The women here have been very generous with their numbers. But even now, before this night is over, we're already seeing a pattern developing. And that is the taller guys are getting the taller numbers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So where are you from?
TUCHMAN (voice-over): It's not scientific, but the results are consistent. On a one to 10 scale, our final survey shows our shorts guys with a 7.7 when it comes to being outgoing. The tall guys, a 7.8. It was the only question that close.
Is he confident? Short guy, 7.8; tall guy, 8.3.
Could he be a good leader? The margin starts to get wider: short guy, 6.9; tall guy, 7.8.
And the biggest difference: could he be a good provider? 6.9 for the short guys; 8.1 for the tall guys.
Initially, none of the women we talked with after their 20 dates, say they consciously gave taller men higher scores for the character issues. But, after asking them to think about it...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was much more about body language. And maybe it's true that men who are taller project more of an air of confidence in terms of their body language. I'm not sure.
TUCHMAN: While some of the women are concerned height from a physical stand point...
How tall are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm about 5'10, but with heels about 6'2.
TUCHMAN: Others say they are now conscious of their subconscious.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People who are taller are perceived as better leaders.
TUCHMAN: And do you perceive that to be the case?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think I do, yes.
TUCHMAN: Malcolm Gladwell's book is about choices made in an instant, a blink. Often we make brilliant decisions in seconds, but prejudging can lead to mistakes, so keep your mind open when it comes to height.
Gladwell thinks height might be one of the last barriers of prejudice to fall, because it's at a more primal level. By the way, at the end of our night of hurry-dating, matches are totalled up. The men pick the women they like, the women pick the men they liked. When it was all figured out, our short men with four matches, our tall men had nine matches.
Life is not always fair, Heidi.
COLLINS: And you know, some of those women, in the beginning, said, oh, no, no, no, no, we're not prejudging anybody, but then, they kind of admitted it. Were they embarrassed?
TUCHMAN: It was very funny. None of them thought they were prejudging, cause we told them at the very end, this was all about height. Ah, we would never discriminate about height when it comes to character, but then they thought about it and, yes, they were a bit embarrassed, and realized perhaps they have done it in the past, too.
COLLINS: All right. Gary Tuchman, 6'1 that you are, thank you for that.
We want to take a moment out to find out what's coming up next on "PAULA ZAHN NOW." And Paula joins us for that.
Hi, Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Heidi. Thanks so much.
We are focusing, of course, on that big story in Pinellas Park, Florida. Bob and Mary Schindler are more than just two faces on camera, at news conferences these days, more than just one side of a family fight that has become a national debate. They are loving parents, devoted to their daughter, Terri Schiavo. Tonight, "Who are the Schindlers?" Also, joining us tonight, Revered Jesse Jackson, who the Schindlers have reached out to, to try to improve their chances of saving their daughter's life, Heidi. A lot emotions flying in Florida tonight, and we'll be tapping into all of them. COLLINS: Oh, boy, that's for sure. All right, Paula Zahn, thank you.
I want to send it back now to Anderson Cooper who's standing by now in Pinellas Park, Florida, once again.
Anderson?
COOPER: Heidi, thanks. Yes, the protests, of course, here continue. I have been reporting this story extensively for the past week. I have seen the protests on television, but actually being here in person -- it's a whole different story. We want to take you beyond the headlines right now, in our "Reporter's Notebook."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): "Welcome to the show," that's what someone said to me when I arrived at Terri Schiavo's hospice. At first, I didn't realize what he meant. It didn't take long to figure it out. The scene outside the hospice is somber and surreal. There are protests and prayers, and people with causes, looking for a camera.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm with Smash Alley Underground, which is just a Christian rock group.
COOPER: Walking around, it seems like everyone wants to be on TV. On some stories, you have to seek people out, convince them to talk. Here, they talk to you whether you've asked them to or not. Some people laugh, others talk, some just stand silently, waiting for something. They're not even sure what.
COOPER: Why is your arm up?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PROTESTER: I don't know.
COOPER: Just about everyone you talk to says, they're here because they feel connected to Terri.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Christy today can go ah--ah, and she laughs all the time.
COOPER: This woman came all the way from Tennessee.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We hurt for that family. We really do.
COOPER: The emotions are very real. You see tears and tempers and everything in-between. A few hundred feet away, Terri Schiavo lays dying. Outside, the hours slowly slip by.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: It's a real ebb and a flow to the crowds here who come to stand, to watch, to wait. At some point, there are several hundred protesters here. On Easter Sunday, I'm told there were several hundred. Now, the crowds sort of dwindle, especially as the evening goes on. During the day, people go off to work, but then people come back here. Few of the people are really from Florida. When you talk to people, they're from Tennessee. They have flown in. I talked to one man earlier today who'd flown in just for the day. He owns a bakery; he was flying back this evening. He said he just wanted to be here, and you sort of ask people, why they wanted to be here. What is it? And they say they feel a connection.
We're awaiting a press conference from the Schindlers, Terri Schiavo's parents, that is supposed to take place any moment now. It is going to take place just right behind me. The cameras have already gathered. I can see now, the Schindlers starting to move toward the podium. So that press conference will occur any moment now. They have been very vocal, of course, all during this week, and they continue to hold out hope, hope that something will happen. Hope that somebody will intervene, or that, perhaps, Michael Schiavo will somehow, in these final moments of Terri Schiavo's life, change his mind. It's an unlikely hope to hold on to, but at this point, it's all they have left. Their legal challenges have been turned down at court after court. They have no more legal recourse. All they can do is hold press conferences, try to build some sort of public momentum to get some sort of change here.
I can see now the -- we're probably about 30 seconds or about a minute away from the press conference, just so we know when to take it. It's a pretty common occurrence here, but rarely do you have the Schindlers announcing they're going to set up a particular time. Let's take a look at what they have to say, the Schindler family.
ROBERT SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: Once again, I thank you for all for being here. Mary would like to say something -- my wife, Mary, on behalf of the whole -- our family.
MARY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S MOTHER: Michael and Jody, you have your own children. Please, please give my child back to me.
(CROWD NOISE)
COOPER: That was Terri Schiavo's mother asking Michael Schiavo, her husband, to give her daughter back to her, referring not only to Michael Schiavo, but the woman he now is in a relationship with, the woman he has two children with. The Schindlers, all along, have said that he has a new life, he has his own life, and that Terri Schiavo is their life, and is still in their life. Michael Schiavo, of course, saying that he has responsibilities to Terri Schiavo still. He continues to be by her side, and he continues to make decisions -- he has the medical right, the legal right to do that.
Our coverage of this extraordinary event continues in just a moment with CNN's prime time coverage. We'll be right back.
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COOPER: Thanks very much for watching us on this special edition of 360, live from Pinellas Park, Florida. CNN's prime time coverage continues now with Paula Zahn.
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