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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Special Edition: Live from Pinellas Park
Aired March 30, 2005 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from Pinellas Park, Florida, Terri Schiavo's hospice. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Another court fight lost. Time is running out.
A special edition of 360 starts now.
Terri Schiavo, starving and clinging to life, day 13, no food, no water.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: She's still fighting, and we're still going to fight for her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Tonight, we're live for Pinellas Park, Florida, Terri Schiavo's hospice, where the fight for her life continues.
Jesse Jackson meets with Florida Governor Jeb Bush, trying to keep Terri Schiavo alive. Tonight, a 360 interview with Reverend Jackson about his involvement in the case and the fight over one human life that sparked a national debate.
Joan Kennedy, the former wife of Senator Edward Kennedy, taken to a hospital after being found lying on the street by a passerby. Tonight, the latest on the frail Kennedy's condition and details of what led to her collapse.
And could you be a racist and not even know it? Tonight, a surprising look at your unconscious. Take the test that might reveal some shocking truths about where you really stand on the race scale.
ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360, with Anderson Cooper in Pinellas Park, Florida.
COOPER: Good evening again from outside the Hospice House Woodside where Terri Schiavo is now in her 13th day, no food, no water. For Terri Schiavo's parents, today has been a difficult one indeed. That's a live shot of the front door of the hospice. Few hundred feet from there, Terri Schiavo lays dying.
A difficult day indeed for her parents. It began with a glimmer of hope for the Schindlers. A federal appeals court said it would allow them to file an emergency petition, a last-ditch attempt to save their daughter's life. But their hopes were dash dashed later that day, later today, by the very same court; the Schindlers' request for a new hearing denied.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): The strange, sad vigil here continues -- the protesters, the media, and increasingly tired and tense family keeping watch over Terri.
MARY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S MOTHER: Michael and Jody, you have your own children. Please, please give my child back to me.
COOPER: Mary Schindler's emotional plea last night didn't really change anything. Terri Schiavo has now gone 13 days without food or water. And while the inevitable end seems nearer, her parents and friends say she's fighting on.
ROBERT SCHINDLER: Terri is still with us. She's -- under the circumstances, she looks darn good, surprisingly good. She is weak from the lack of food and hydration. But her skin tone is not breaking -- is fine. She's not -- nothing's breaking down. We know that some of her organs are still functioning.
COOPER: A group of relatives and friends who visited Terri in the hospice today each came out with a similar story.
Friend Judy Bader.
JUDY BADER, SCHINDLER FAMILY FRIEND: Terri is very much awake. She's still trying to track people in the room with her eyes. She is still very much there. She hasn't gone anywhere. She's still fighting very hard to stay alive. We just have to help her.
COOPER: Cousin Betty Hughes.
BETTY HUGHES, TERRI SCHIAVO'S COUSIN: Terri is very much with us. She was aware that we were there. Her skin tone and her skin is good. We're with her. She's with us.
COOPER: And friend Sheri Payne.
SHERI PAYNE, SCHINDLER FAMILY FRIEND: Actually I was amazed too, because when I went over to her bed, she looked right up at me, like she did the other night, just like the other people that were with me. Her skin tone is wonderful. She is -- appears strong, but she is getting weaker. And if she just had a little water, I'm sure she would be fine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Of course, that is the point of big contention between these, the two sides of this family -- exactly what her condition is right now, whether or not she is feeling pain. Two very different, very starkly different sides of this story.
We are anticipating a press conference just behind me very shortly from Terri's parents. We are told they have been just in to see her. They are still in with her right now. Soon as they come out, they're going to hold a press conference. We will bring that to you live, of course.
This case really drawn attention from all around the world, and from all across the political spectrum. Today, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, a new ally of Terri Schiavo's parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, met with Florida Governor Jeb Bush. And Tom Lee, president of the state Senate, reportedly told the Reverend Jackson that there appears to be no chance the Florida legislature will revive a bill requiring doctors to reinsert Terri Schiavo's feeding tubes.
The legal avenues closed, Jackson then returned here just a few hours ago. He met privately behind closed doors with the Schindlers. I was granted exclusive access to part of that meeting. It was somber, I can tell you, it was quiet. We sat in a small circle, Jackson talking with Terri's parents, talking about what she has been able to do with her life and with her journey to death. They prayed. Terri Schiavo's father cried.
I spoke with Reverend Jackson right after that meeting.
We just came from a meeting with the Schindler family. I sat in on part of the meeting. How did they seem to you? What did you talk about?
REV. JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW PUSH COALITION: Well, there is a resolve and even a recognition that legal doors are being closed on the one hand, the clock is ticking on Terri on the other. And my advice to them is to deal with the cruel hand of fate with their faith, and try to derive from this ordeal, strength, in knowing that by her strife, many others are being healed, while we fight for her to have water and food, which she should not have not been denied, in my judgment.
COOPER: Yes, what about Terri Schiavo has brought you and all these people together, in a way?
JACKSON: Well, there is the simple morality and ethics of the matter. Most of the time, when people die, it's beyond our control. We say it's fate. And it comes with or without announcement. Noontime, the sun is eclipsed.
But here we have a case where, on the one hand, she needs food and water. On the other hand, we have food and water, will not provide it for her. And we say it's because of the law. Well, law without mercy is cruel and crude. Law must be informed by mercy to bring about justice.
As people watch her die daily, because of lack of available food and water, it is touching people in a very profound way. What is driving this? And our feelings for it must not be divided by the politics of it. It must be, what kind of public policies can come from this? What lessons can we learn from this to help salvage the other Terri's? Because, after all, there may be 30,000 Americans plus in her condition today. As Americans live longer, we're going to need to be more sensitive to how we handle this situation.
COOPER: You -- part of the message I heard you trying to deliver to the Schindlers is -- and it's a message I think that perhaps some of the protesters out here haven't heard -- is, don't be bitter. Don't allow bitterness. It's understandable to be bitter, perhaps, believing what they do. But don't allow that to color the way you see everything.
JACKSON: Because bitterness blinds us. Some people are so blinded by the divisions of race and religion and class and political parties, they can't see what's on the other side of the wall.
COOPER: But the other side...
JACKSON: Why not, why not pull down the walls, and let's have bridges, and see the beauty of what's lost by being locked behind these walls?
COOPER: Yes, when I talked to Brother O'Donnell yesterday, spiritual adviser to the family, and he said the other side basically is lying. Somebody is lying. They're not telling the truth, and there's not a sense of, you know, that the other side is coming from a good place, from a deeply felt place.
Do you believe, you know, Michael Schiavo has good intentions in his heart?
JACKSON: I think that there is pain all around. I mean, he has lived with an incapacitated wife for 15 years. And there's a lot of loss in that, and a lot of pain in that. And while they may strongly disagree with him, the reasons are, their family tensions are -- I do not believe that he wants to see his wife die. He has the position of pulling off -- pulling the tube out, I don't agree with, but I would not -- in some sense, I would not think it would be good to vilify him as some guy who is callous.
COOPER: Well, Terri Schiavo's parents have just been in to see her. We anticipate a press conference from them any moment, talking about her condition. We will bring to that to you live.
You know, despite the impression you might be getting from all this television coverage, this place, Pinellas Park, Florida, is more than just a hospice with police and protesters around it. This is a community. People live here, which is to say that Terri Schiavo has been a part of their reality for years now.
David Mattingly on the people and strong feelings here in Pinellas Park.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right, America. You need to repent.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With almost every single frame of video filled with images of signs and people protesting the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, Pinellas Park, Florida, might appear as a very crowded, intense place with a determined point of view.
But after years of following the plight of Terri Schiavo, people in this quiet city of almost 48,000, we find, have their own opinions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just about every day, whoever you talk to, that's all they're talking about is, you know, Terri Schiavo.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody's talking about it, yes. Yes. And it's been long enough.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This goes to you.
MATTINGLY: At the Parkside Diner, where lunch specials change daily, discussion about Terri Schiavo has been the one constant topic of conversation for years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that it's been 15 years, and they should let her go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter that is 37 is in cardiac at Akron General Hospital. And she told her husband, she said, Charlie, if I ever get in Terri Schiavo's state, you better give me back to my mother.
MATTINGLY: In what could be Terri Schiavo's final days, we find a clear majority of those we spoke to support the decision to remove the feeding tube, an experience that seems to mirror most national polls. And there is no shortage of opinion. Mike Legowski (ph) and Mike Morrison (ph) say there's always an argument going on at the construction site where they work, just like the one that started here at their table.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything, anything could happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I disagree. I don't think if she can live a healthy life, that she's going to be a vegetable for the rest of her life, that she should, you know -- I'm not saying, I don't want to use the word burden, but I mean, if she can't function as a human...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... if she can't eat or (INAUDIBLE)...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's your -- that's your -- well, it's...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I know. But starving them to death, that's not a good way to go. You would hope that she would be treated (INAUDIBLE).
MATTINGLY: While residents will tell you that this is the biggest event to ever hit Pinellas Park outside of a hurricane, the demonstration site and the cluster of media next to it is relatively small, on a single, out-of-the-way street. Around the corner, life goes on. The only difference here is the occasional chance to find someone like Joyce Piper who lives near the Schindlers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Myself personally, it's up to the husband. It should be the husband's choice.
MATTINGLY (on camera): Is that a tough opinion for you to have, to live that close to the parents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it is.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Outside opinions coming into Pinellas Park, however, skew heavily in favor of Terri's parents. The Pinellas Park Police reported 866 phone calls in less than two weeks, many reporting a murder in progress at Terri Schiavo's hospice. E-mails to the city are also one-sided. One read, "It is disgraceful that you would allow your police force to enforce a law that permits the murder of an innocent woman."
Many, like this one, complain about the children who were arrested. "Placing 8- and 10-year-old children in handcuffs? What is wrong with you people?"
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And Dave, you brought some of these e-mails. It's a quite a thick stack.
MATTINGLY: And this stack is just from the last five days. Almost all of them are not complimentary of the city and their involvement out here. And one of them in particular caught a lot of people's attention today. I'll read it to you. It says, "Your camp guards, who are essentially whores to the law and who are stealing Terri Schiavo, killing Terri Schiavo, will eventually be shot at. Hope there is a Pinellas Park Waco in your future, and every cop is killed. The Pinellas Park pigs will eventually pay for their crimes. Death to the pigs."
Needless to say, this is one of the threats that police here in the state of Florida and the FBI are looking into.
COOPER: And security has been tightened here, just even getting, to, for us, the searches of vehicles much tighter than they were even yesterday.
MATTINGLY: Yes, it is.
COOPER: David Mattingly, thanks very much.
Coming up next on this special edition of 360, Terri Schiavo's family doctor, one of the doctors, joins us live. Find out why he believes she is not in a vegetative state. That's a live shot. We are awaiting a press conference. The Schindlers have been in to see Terri. We are waiting to hear what they have to say, any moment. We will bring that to you live.
Also, our 360 M.D., Sanjay Gupta, helps us sort out medical facts from fiction about what state Terri Schiavo really is in.
Also ahead tonight, other news: battling alcoholism. A member of the Kennedy clan found passed out on a Boston street. Find out how it all came to this.
Also ahead tonight, judging people in the blink an eye. Whether you think you do or not, we all do it. How much does race impact what you think about other people? We're going to have a fascinating and shocking test you can take at home.
First, let's take a look at your picks, the most popular stories right now on CNN.com.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back to this special edition of 360, the battle over Terri Schiavo. That is a live shot of a location where a press conference is about to be held. Terri Schiavo's parents, the Schindlers, have been in to see her. We understand they are going to come out and speak. We of course will bring that to you live. We want to hear exactly what they feel their condition is right now, what the mood inside her room is. We'll bring that to you live, as I said.
In the seven years this case has been in the courts, they have consistently sided with doctors who say that Terri Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state. One physician who examined her three years ago on behalf of Terri's parents believes she is not in a vegetative state. He insists even now, nearly two weeks without food and water, she can still be rehabilitated. She can still be saved.
Dr. William Hammesfahr joins me now.
Doctor, thanks very much for being here.
DR. WILLIAM HAMMESFAHR: Thank you very much.
COOPER: What, I mean, all these doctors have testified she is in a persistent vegetative state. They say she can't verbalize, she is not communicative. Why do you believe that's not true?
HAMMESFAHR: Well, all these doctors is only Dr. Cranford, Dr. Greer, and Dr. Bampakitis. Dr. Maxfield and myself have examined her. Dr. Young, who saw her, Dr. Carpenter, who saw her, another physician whose name escapes me who saw her -- all of us have seen her physically do not say that she's in a persistent vegetative state.
COOPER: Well, there's some who've seen her physically...
HAMMESFAHR: And then...
COOPER: ... would say that she is. But why do you think she is not...
HAMMESFAHR: ...so we've got three to, what, five or six now, five on Terri's side and three on the, on their side, and then...
COOPER: The courts have consistently sided with those doctors who say she is...
HAMMESFAHR: Right.
COOPER: ... in a persistent vegetative state. They basically haven't bought the -- what, what you -- the argument you're making, the diagnosis you're making.
What do you see in her that makes you feel she's in a minimally conscious state? Do you thinks he responds to people?
HAMMESFAHR: Well, she did respond to people when I saw her, and apparently she still is responding to people here. She looks at you, she focuses on you. She focuses on other people around you. I would ask her to do things, and she would do things. Other people have asked her, even Dr. Cranford asked her to do things, and she would actually do it.
COOPER: The, the, this doctor who examined her most recently, or looked at videotapes of her for the state of Florida, said that, basically indicated that, I mean, she has all the qualities of being in a persistent vegetative state in his diagnosis. And then he came and said that he senses the presence of a human being. I mean, that seems to indicate that she's not responsive. I mean, what, how do you account for these discrepancies?
HAMMESFAHR: Well, minimally conscious state is what he described her as being in. And minimally conscious state is a level above coma. It's a level above persistent vegetative state. Now, you have to remember, when he saw her, he saw her a week after being dehydrated and no having food and water. So that meant that she was better when we saw her, or when the family saw her the week before. She would have deteriorated during that week, and yet she still was not in a coma yet, still not in a persistent vegetative state.
COOPER: You examined her back in 2002. I spoke with another doctor last week who also has testified in this case. I want to play you some of what he said about her condition.
HAMMESFAHR: So where do I look?
COOPER: You can just look at the camera there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. RONALD CRANFORD, MEDICAL WITNESS ON BEHALF OF MICHAEL SCHIAVO: Judge Greer had the longest evidentiary history in the history of American law in a right-to-die case -- six days, six different physicians, completely discounted the testimony of Dr. Hammesfahr and Dr. Maxwell. He didn't believe a word they said.
Seven of the eight neurologists who examined Terri over the years have all said the same thing, she's in a persistent or permanent vegetative state, and the only neurologist that's ever said otherwise was Dr. Hammesfahr, and he was discounted by the court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Why do you think the court discounted you?
HAMMESFAHR: Well, I, I'd like to take to task a little bit with that. For instance, one of the patients, one of the neurologists said that she's actually brain-dead, but then went on to identify that he hadn't done blood pressures, he hadn't done EEGs at that point, he hadn't done any of the routine tests that would be expected to be done to make that diagnosis. That was Dr. Barnhill.
Other physicians before him, I'm not aware, and I've reviewed the file, I'm not aware of them having said that she was in a persistent vegetative state by any means, Dr. DeSouza (ph), for instance, and others. I'm not aware of that diagnosis being made in any fashion.
COOPER: And, and...
HAMMESFAHR: So we're down, then, to Dr. Cranford, Dr. Greer, and Dr. Bampakitis, all who, too, testified for the husband, and one who testified for the court. And then we have a, who, all, both who, both who...
COOPER: But, Dr. Bampakitis was not testifying for the husband. Dr. Bampakitis was hired...
HAMMESFAHR: Right, for the court.
COOPER: ... by the court...
HAMMESFAHR: ... for the court.
COOPER: ... to examine her.
HAMMESFAHR: But all three of those testified that they don't treat these kinds of patients. And in addition, we have about 33 other brain-injury specialists just in the last two weeks who've done affidavits under penalty of perjury, a criminal offense, that she's not in persistent vegetative state, not in a coma. And then we have the governor's own independent physician come in and identify her not in persistent vegetative state, not in a coma. So where is the weight of the evidence?
COOPER: Doctor, appreciate you joining us. It's a difficult case. There are two sides. We like to look at all the sides. Doctor, appreciate it. Thank you very much.
HAMMESFAHR: Thank you much.
COOPER: Well, we have some other news to follow. We are continuing to wait for this press conference to occur. Of course, we'll bring that to you live, hearing from Terri Schiavo's parents.
Thomas Roberts, though, from HEADLINE NEWS joins us now with the latest about a quarter past the hour, latest updates. Hey, Thomas.
THOMAS ROBERTS, HEADLINE NEWS: Hi, Anderson.
A former top official of the Boy Scouts of America could face up to 20 years in prison after pleading guilty to child porn charges today. Investigators say a search last month turned up more than 500 images of child porn on Douglas Smith's computer. His attorney says Smith became involved in child pornography by accident, but now admits he had a problem with it. Smith once ran a Boy Scout task force aimed at protecting kids from sexual abuse.
Pope John Paul II is now being fed by a tube inserted through his nose. The Vatican spokesman says the feeding tube is needed to improve the Pope's nutrition. The 84-year-old's recovery from tracheotomy surgery is slow and progressive. The Pope appeared in his window of his study today for a few minutes, but didn't speak to the crowds gathered outside.
The death toll may have reached 300,000 people in the on-going conflict in Sudan's Darfur region. That figure from a British parliamentary report is far higher than many previous estimates. The report also urged the United Nations to impose sanctions on Sudan, and send war criminals to the International Criminal Court. Yesterday the U.N. Security Council ordered an asset freeze and travel ban on those who defy peace efforts taking place in the region.
Child obesity is so widespread in the U.S., it's overshadowing health gains made in other areas. A new study by the Foundation for Child Development says an estimated 16 percent of kids are overweight or obese, a rate that has more than tripled since 1975. On the brighter side of things, teen births are down and children were found to be smoking less and using fewer illegal drugs.
Anderson, we send it back to you in Florida.
COOPER: All right. That's certainly good news there. Thomas Roberts, thank you. We'll see you again in about 30 minutes.
This special edition of 360 continues: The Battle over Terri Schiavo. Coming up next; we're waiting for that press conference to occur any moment. That's a live shot from Terri Schiavo's parents.
Also tonight, conflicting opinions: will an autopsy end the debate, finally, over Terri Schiavo's condition? 360 M.D. Sanjay Gupta joins us live to talk about that.
Also ahead tonight, the battle over assisted suicide. When a patient decides on their own it's time to die, should they have a right to have a doctor help them? We're going to look at all sides.
Also, a little later tonight, making snap judgments in the blink of an eye. We all do it, whether we admit it or not. Tonight, we're going to look at how that affects our decision-making. Do you make decisions based on race? Even without thinking about it? A fascinating look; be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back to this special edition of 360: The Battle over Terri Schiavo -- it continues, day 13. No food, no water for Terri Schiavo. She's inside of that hospice. That shot you are seeing is the area for a press conference, staging area. We anticipate Terri Schiavo's parents to be coming out any moment now. They have spent some time with her. We're going to hear from them, her condition, their side, their side of the story, about what her condition is. I'm outside the hospice right here in Woodside in Pinellas Park, Florida. Supporters of Terri Schiavo continuing to stand vigil. As I said, this is the 13th day since her feeding tube was removed. The sad saga remains -- one of the most viewed stories on CNN.com. 360's Rudi Bakhtiar looks into these Web stories all day to bring you an angle you won't see anywhere else. Rudi joins us from New York.
Rudi, what did you find out tonight?
RUDI BAKHTIAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, no matter how this plays out, the Schiavo case will always be known for what can happen when a person doesn't make their end-of-life wishes known. But what if someone does know what they want, does ask to end their life, with the help of their physician? Can they? We're talking, of course, about physician-assisted suicide, which continues to be a hot button issue for people on both sides of the argument.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BAKHTIAR: Remember Dr. Death?
DR. JACK KEVORKIAN, PHYSICIAN-ASSISTED SUICIDE ADVOCATE: He calls it a murder, a crime, a killing. I call it a medical service.
BAKHTIAR: America's best known advocate for assisted suicide, Dr. Jack Kevorkian, is in prison, serving a 10- to 25-year sentence for second-degree murder. His crime: assisting this man who was suffering from Lou Gehrig's disease, in taking his own life.
KEVORKIAN: Daniel didn't come to me because, I want to die, kill me. He came it me to say, please help me. There was a medical affliction there.
BAKHTIAR: The 1990s, Dr. Kevorkian helped more than 130 people to their deaths. He was arrested; acquitted three times; freed, following a mistrial on another occasion; arrested again; and finally convicted.
There is one state where assisted suicide is legal: Oregon. In 1994, Oregon voters approved a Death-with-Dignity referendum. And since it took affect, 208 Oregonians -- competent, terminally ill, and meeting strict guidelines -- have swallowed fatal doses of medicine legally prescribed by a doctor.
Now, a group of citizens from Vermont is trying to make the Green Mountain State the next setting for a showdown over physician-assisted suicide. Supporters say laws to legalize the practice are a matter of justice.
DICK WALTERS, DEATH WITH DIGNITY, VT: We are encouraged to be independent people and take charge of our lives all through our lives. And today under current law in Vermont, we are in the hands of other people. I want choice. I want control.
BAKHTIAR: Walters noted that in a Zogby poll conducted in Vermont in December, 78 percent said they would support a bill before that state's legislature that would allow terminally ill patients to get medication from their doctors to hasten death.
Leading the opposition is Dr. Robert Orr, president of the Vermont Alliance for Ethical Healthcare.
ROBERT ORR, PRESIDENT, VT ALLIANCE FOR ETHICAL HEALTHCARE: The concerns that we have are that the so-called guidelines and restrictions that are in the proposed bill, after a period of time, will be expanded so that the criteria will be liberalized. This has happened clearly in the Netherlands and we're beginning to see evidence of that happening in Oregon as well.
BAKHTIAR: The bill would follow the same guidelines that are being used in Oregon to grant a physician-assisted suicide wish.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BAKHTIAR: Now, Anderson, we want to run down some of these guidelines for you: a terminal diagnosis, confirmed by two independent physicians, and, if it's recommended by either of them, an evaluation of mental competency by a mental health professional must be provided as well. Now, this request for physician-assisted suicide needs to be put in writing to the doctor, from the patient, and it is revokable at any time by the patient. There also must be a 15-day waiting period prior to receiving the requested prescription and the medication. It has to be prescribed by the doctor, but self- administered by the patient. Of course, a lot more guidelines to tell you about.
COOPER: Rudi, thanks very much.
We have the press conference; let's take you to it live. You're going to be hearing from members of the Schindler family. They have spent time in the hospice over the last -- several times today, as a matter of fact. And in a moment we're actually going to hear from two of Terri Schiavo's friends about the mood in her hospice room.
This press conference you are seeing -- that her father is behind her. Let's listen in to see what he has to say.
FATHER FRANK PAVONE: ...that has committed acts totally beyond their authority. The courts have absolutely no moral authority to order that a human being be starved and dehydrated as is happening to Terri right at this moment.
As I sat there next to her, I noticed several things: first of all, she is holding three stuffed animals. Under her right arm is a stuffed dog, under her left arm is a stuffed-animal kitten, and next to her left arm, a bunny rabbit. Were those animals real animals, we would not be allowed to do to them what is happening to Terri right now.
Next to her bed on the side table is a vase of flowers, beautiful flowers. And then across the room from the foot of her bed is another vase of flowers, also beautiful flowers.
In both cases, those flowers have plenty of water. They have more water than she does. The flowers are being taken better care of right now than our sister Terri.
What is happening here is a monumental disaster for our nation and for civilization. What is happening here is that we are buying into the idea that there are certain class of people, namely those who are disabled, that we can just go ahead and kill and not lose a good night's sleep over it.
We're witnessing here a crossroads for our nation and we've got to decide whether we're going to continue to listen to courts that absolutely have no authority to allow this to happen, or if the other two branches of government -- the executive and the legislative -- will have the will to act on their own authority.
I for one -- and I know millions around the country have the same sentiment -- am tired of hearing the executive and the legislative branches of our government say, well, the court has spoken, and there's nothing we can do. Yes, there is something you can do. Use your own authority given to you by the Constitution to protect human life.
And whether Terri survives or dies, that is going to be the ongoing question. Are we governing ourselves or not? We elect people in this country who stand for the kind of values that we do, the kind of values that our nation was founded on. And this election of 2004 showed that very clearly, that there are people ready to take their values into the voting booth. And then when we elect these people, then say they say to us, ultimately well, we can't do anything. And then unelected judges begin to chart the course of the nation for us, implementing policies and committing actions that offend the vast majority of the American people.
I stand before you tonight, with sadness and also with hope that, through your work, you in the media, we are grateful to you for being here in the way that you are, that through your work, the conscience of America may yet be awakened to the tragedy that's happening behind those walls, and may take the action necessary to see that it never happens again. Thank you so much for being here.
QUESTION: Father Frank, Father Frank. In Spanish please, Father Frank. Will you please tell us in Spanish. (SPEAKING IN SPANISH)
PAVONE: Yes, that'll be all right. Can someone translate for me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Father Frank will take a couple questions.
PAVONE: Yes, I would be glad to take a question.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
PAVONE: Now, not yet. But I look forward to doing so.
QUESTION: What was her physical condition?
COOPER: Do you know who this is? PAVONE: I saw Terri in February. And I could certainly tell the difference in her condition now. She looks much worse predictably than she did then. But I was -- I was just -- the impression that you get whether you see her is just sadness. Why is this person lying here and we can't give her a cup of water?
QUESTION: Father Frank, where do you and the family go from here? What is your next move?
PAVONE: Well, we're doing right now, through you, through your assistance, bringing -- continue to bring this to the attention of the American people, because people don't know about the facts of this case. When people talk, about, we should let her die. Well, until we started starving her, she wasn't dying. What are you talking about, let her die? Well, we don't want extraordinary medical intervention.
You know, when you and I come back from dinner, we don't say I just had my last medical treatment. We say we just had dinner, I just had a meal. Feeding a person is not medical treatment. And yet, for some 20 years now, in this country, we have had medical societies defining the kind of tube feeding that has sustained Terri as a medical treatment. It's not a medical treatment, it's feeding. It's feeding.
What do we do from here? We continue to plead. We continue to pray. We continue to educate. And again no matter what happens to Terri, you can be sure a movement has started here. In this place, at this moment, a new movement has started. And we're not going to see the end of this very soon.
QUESTION: How much more difficult is it getting for the family to walk over there? I mean, Mary's stopped visiting for the last few days?
PAVONE: I have to defer to them about that. I just want to say in reference to that, that this family is amazing. This kind of spiritual strength, the kind of faith, the kind of endurance that they have is something that I have rarely seen in my ministry as a priest.
And I travel the nation. Our Priests for Life organization is a pro-life organization that ministers to the 19,000 Catholic parishes across the country. You may be interested to know that just prior to Good Friday last week, I sent out a fax to every priest in the country with reflections on Terri's situation and I heard from many of them, that they preached about Terri and her -- and the injustice that's being inflected upon her. And we will continue to preach and to lead our people in prayer, not only for Terri, but for all who are likewise vulnerable.
QUESTION: Did you see her speak to George Felos inside of the hospice?
PAVONE: I did not. But if I speak with him, if I speak to Michael...
COOPER: We had anticipated hearing from Mr. Schindler, you see standing behind the priest there. It appears he is not going to talk.
In a moment, we are going it talk to two of Terri Schiavo's friends. People who have seen her twice today. We'll talk about what it is like inside of Terri Schiavo's hospice room. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: I was with her just within the past hour. Her lips are -- her lips have moisturizer on them. There are no cracks in her lips. Her skin tone is excellent. She's being cared for by many compassionate and highly trained hospice workers. She's in a peaceful condition. She's in a restful condition. She's under no distress. She hasn't even received Tylenol for pain relief, because she's not in pain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That is George Felos, the attorney for Michael Schiavo speaking last night about his perspective of what it like in that room, how Terri Schiavo is doing.
In this story, there are two angles at the very least, two sides to this story depending on who you talk to. Joining me now here in Pinellas Park are two old friends of Terri's -- Sheri Payne and Judy Bader. We appreciate you being with us tonight.
You have seen her today twice. What is it like in that room?
JUDY BADER, SCHINDLER FAMILY FRIEND: Well, it's pretty stark. And Terri is still aware. She's tracking people with her eyes. She's -- she's still trying to live. She's really fighting for her life. We bring in flowers and they let us bring if flowers today. Generally they stop everything at the door, but today they each let us bring in a rose for her. And she's got stuffed animals and...
COOPER: And when you go in to see her, I mean, what do you do? How do you...
SHERI PAYNE, SCHINDLER FAMILY FRIEND: We go each go up to her bed and bend down and speak to her. I speak to her about things that we used to do and how we are really fighting for her and for her to stay strong, and she is. She is staying as strong as she can.
COOPER: Do you believe that she knows about the fight that's going to here?
BADER: Definitely.
PAYNE: We tell her.
BADER: We really feel that...
COOPER: You tell her? BADER: Yes, we tell her. And we tell her everybody's praying for her, the whole world is praying for her and that everybody's fighting for her, and that she has to keep fighting and she is fighting. It's absolutely amazing.
COOPER: Is there a calm atmosphere in the room? I mean, out here it is sort of this swirling mass of media and police and protesters. Is it sort of like the eye of the storm in that room?
PAYNE: It's quiet. It is calm, yes. And mainly we pray, and we talk about the good times that we had.
COOPER: Let's talk about those, because, we all know Terri Schiavo, sadly at the end of her life. The end of her journey. You really -- you've known her since she was a little girl. What was she like as a little kid?
BADER: She was very sweet, always ready to laugh. Always had a smile. Very gentle -- a gentle spirit. She was a gentle spirit. And loved her family, her brothers and sister. They were very close-knit, still are. Very close-knit family. Always went out with us. We would go out every weekend and Terri would go with us.
COOPER: And in the Terri Schiavo that you will remember, I mean, is it -- often when people lose their lives, their families focus on how they died as opposed to how they lived their life. When you go to sleep at night, when you think about her, is it that young Terri Schiavo that you think about, or is it Terri now?
PAYNE: I do. I think about the times that Terri and I have spent together. The good times -- and I said it the other night, when we'd go dancing together, we always had such a good time.
COOPER: Was she is a good dancer?
PAYNE: Yes, she was. In fact, before we left, we turned on country music...
COOPER: Oh really? She liked to dance to country music?
PAYNE: ...in her room. Well, that was one of them. But we did turn on country music, because, at one time, they had something like church music. But we know what she likes, so we got the country music on.
COOPER: Have a little hoedown.
PAYNE: Yes, that's right.
COOPER: And, you as well? You plan on remembering her the way she lived?
BADER: Yes, definitely. This is too cruel to contemplate and I can't believe that I am living, in my generation, in the United States, and having this happen. I just -- my mind can't wrap around that this could possibly happen and that we as a society have allowed it to happen. It's incomprehensible to me.
COOPER: Will you stay here? Will you be here...
BADER: As long as her parents need us, we'll be here, yes.
COOPER: All right. Appreciate both of you being with us.
PAYNE: Thank you. Thank you.
COOPER: I'm sorry it's under these circumstances.
BADER: Thank you very much.
COOPER: All right, thank you very much.
Well, our special edition of 360 continues. We'll be right back, live, from Pinellas Park, Florida.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Top 25 technology breakthroughs that changed the world and our lives, during CNN's first 25 years. We asked experts to come up with a list.
Number 15, video games. The entertainment choice among younger generations and more profitable now than movies.
Number 14, DNA testing. Identifying the uniqueness of each person that can help reunite families or identify criminals.
Tuning in at number 13, satellite TV and radio. A better way to transmit images and sound into your home or car.
Number 12, fiber optics. Link the world using pulses of light to communicate over great distances from long-distance telephone calls to the Internet.
Number 11, space. Man has landed on the moon, proven there was water on Mars and, in an international effort, has orbited a working space station. But there is still more out there.
Stay tuned as we countdown to number one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back to our special coverage: The Battle over Terri Schiavo. We're live outside of her hospice outside of Pinellas Park, Florida.
You know, perhaps the only thing on which Terri Schiavo's husband Michael and her parents agree -- and they were disagreeing on this as well, until recently -- is that an autopsy will be performed on Terri Schiavo's body after the inevitable has happened.
360 M.D. Dr. Sanjay Gupta standing by in Atlanta to help us to understand the when and how of the autopsies, and what they do and don't show.
Sanjay, what can we possibly learn about Terri Schiavo's condition? Not -- obviously all deaths -- not all deaths lead to an autopsy? When is it conducted, and who needs to request it?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL EXPERT: Yes, I mean -- important questions. First of all, autopsies actually aren't that common. Really in less than about 10 percent of all deaths does an autopsy actually happen.
Really, there's three major reasons. One of them you already highlighted, Anderson: the family members request it. Also, in the case of a criminal or legal issue, a homicide or a suicide, for example, or an unexpected death -- specifically people who died 12 hours to 24 hours after an operation or within a day or so of being admitted to the hospital. But basically trying to answer the question, what exactly caused the death, Anderson.
COOPER: Also, there's such this battle over what is going on in Terri Schiavo's mind, literally in her brain, whether she's in a persistent vegetative state, whether she's in a state of minimal consciousness, whether she could ever recover. What are they looking for in Terri Schiavo's case in this autopsy?
GUPTA: An important question. Let me just preface it by saying, an autopsy is just another set of data points. You're not able to conclusively answer -- I know people don't want to hear that -- but you're not going to be able to conclusively answer, still, this question that we have been talking about, whether she's in a persistent vegetative state or a minimally conscious state.
Let me tell you a couple of things. They are going to look at cause of death, which is probably going to be malnutrition and dehydration. We've all been talking about that. They're also look for any other diseases that were present. They may make sure she didn't have any high doses of morphine or low potassium, things like that.
But let me just point out a couple of things to you in regard to her brain. We've had seen these CT scans, for example -- a healthy brain on the left. I think even the average person can take a look at this and see there is something drastically different about that brain on the right. There is a fluid build up around there. That is a problem, obviously. You can also zoom in a little further and actually see the brains themselves that they are going to be looking at in this autopsy. Again the healthy brain on the left; the not-so- healthy brain on the right. The brain on the right happens to be the brain of a patient who was diagnosed with persistent vegetative state.
Anderson, they're going to take all of this data, they're going to put it together and try to come to some sort of conclusion as to whether or not her clinical picture of persistent vegetative state matches what they find in autopsy.
COOPER: Some of the doctors who have testified on behalf of Michael Schiavo, and on behalf of the court, have said that spinal fluid is actually now present in her skull, in her brain, and that part of her cerebral cortex has been largely replaced by spinal fluid. Is that common? I know nothing about this, but I didn't realize that was possible.
GUPTA: Yes, first of all, it's not common, for sure, but what happens, Anderson -- and we saw that CT scan picture just a moment ago -- what happens is when brain cells die, they just shrink away. Your brain literally becomes smaller and the skull doesn't like any empty spaces. So it fills that up area with fluid, and that's where the spinal fluid comes from. That in and of itself, though, Anderson, doesn't tell you for sure that she's in a persistent vegetative state, or a minimally conscious state, or something else. It's just another data point. I keep making that point because it's really important to know that the autopsy is just going to tell us more data but not be able to answer these questions conclusively.
Anderson?
COOPER: 360 M.D., Sanjay Gupta. Thanks. Appreciate it.
GUPTA: Thank you.
COOPER: Other stories making news right now.
Thomas Roberts from the "HEADLINE NEWS" joins with us the latest.
Hey, Thomas.
THOMAS ROBERTS, HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, Anderson.
First Lady Laura Bush is on her way back, as we speak, to Washington, after giving a personal thanks to U.S. forces in Afghanistan. She capped off a five-hour visit to the country by dining with American troops in Bagram Air Force Base near Kabul. The first lady announced grants of more than $20 million to build an American University of Afghanistan, also a school that would give Afghan children an American-style education.
Doctors say the Reverend Jerry Falwell is off a ventilator and feeling better. His condition has now been upgraded from critical to serious but stable at a Virginia hospital. Falwell is said to be alert and breathing without any problems. Doctors say he suffered an acute onset of congestive heart failure but did not have a heart attack.
A brawl breaks out in Russia's parliament. No one seriously hurt in this fight -- take a look. It involved about 20 people. Fists started flying after a dispute over some election result. The lawmaker some blame for triggering the brawl was once shown on TV grabbing a woman by the neck and pulling her hair. He denies, though, starting the fight.
And it appears that aspirin is still one of the best bets of preventing strokes. A new study suggest people at risk of developing strokes caused by narrowed arteries in the brain should consider aspirin instead of a common anti-clogging drug. Researchers say patients on the blood thinner wafer had suffered a higher death rate then those who took regular-strength aspirin. The partial blockage of arteries in the brain causes about 10 percent of the 900,000 strokes in the U.S. each year.
But Anderson, before anybody changes what they take, they should probably consult with their doctor if this story perked up their ears. Back to you.
COOPER: No doubt about that. Thomas thanks very much. You'll have more headlines in about 30 minute. Our special edition, though, of 360 continues right here from Pinellas Park. Time standing still, not protesters or the media. I'll bring you my "Reporter's Notebook" ahead when our special edition of 360: The Battle of Terri Schiavo continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back. Our special coverage from Pinellas Park, outside of Terri Schiavo's hospice continues now.
You know, on 360 we don't take sides. We like to look at stories from all angles. We like to hear all different points of views. And that includes in how we tell stories. I was walking around earlier today, around -- around the protesting area with the home video camera. I just wanted try get yet another angle of the story -- sort of take you behind the scenes, what it looks like, what it feels like to be here. Here is my "Reporter's Notebook."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): Outside of the hospice where Terri Schiavo lays dying, it's hot and it's humid and time seems to stand still. At the height of the day when the sun is at its peak, the number of protesters dwindle and energy lags.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.
COOPER: The Schindlers stay sequestered in a building outside the hospice. The sign says they don't want to be disturbed. When they emerge to talk to the media or see their dying daughter, they're followed by a pack of cameras and reporters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, back it up!
COOPER: They usually don't say anything but they get followed anyway. There's not much else to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did they say anything?
COOPER (on camera): No.
(voice-over): Day after day, the story doesn't really change and yet reporters have to file something.
PETER KING, CBS NEWS: Peter King, CBS News. COOPER: Everyone's on deadline. The Schindler's lost another legal round today, so trying to influence public opinion is about the only avenue left to them.
(on camera): It looks like they're setting up another press conference.
(voice-over): A lot of people call it a media circus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like 40 -- 40 cameras around, like, 50 microphones.
COOPER: I suppose every circus needs its juggler.
NATHAN DURAL, PROTESTER: We're juggling for Jesus.
COOPER: Nathan Dural (ph) has a religious ministry. His kids are also part of the act.
DURAL: This is how I warm up.
COOPER (on camera): Anytime you have cameras and reporters around on a big story like this, you have people who are drawn to the media circus of it, who want to be on television, who want their opinions heard, want their faces on camera. And there is undeniably a number of people here like that. But there's also people here with very real emotions. And these are people who don't really necessarily care to be on television. But they want to be here. They want to bear witness to what is happening. They want in somehow, some way to save Terri Schiavo's life. Everyone here is just waiting and, as the days tick by and the sun is shining, it's hot, it becomes more and more frustrating. And everyone is just waiting. Waiting for the feeding tube to be reinserted or waiting for Terri Schiavo to die.
(voice-over): For some, this case is about facts, medical evidence, the law. For many out here, it goes far beyond that. Her smile, they say, is all they need to know.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: One more angle on this story that seems to have so many angles. Our special coverage from Pinellas Park from Terri Schiavo's hospice continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: And welcome back.
The story, of course, continues to play out this evening all through CNN's prime time coverage which continues right now with Paula Zahn.
Hey, Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, HOST "PAULA ZAHN NOW": Hi, Anderson. You talked quite a bit over the past hour about the kind of tension you've seen surface there between those who are waiting for the feeding tube to be reinserted, hope against all hope, and those who are literally waiting for Terri Schiavo to die.
Has it gotten ugly at all?
COOPER: Well, there's not really much joining of the two different sides. Michael Schiavo enters the hospice through another area. His attorney really isn't present where this (INAUDIBLE) encampment where the protesters are. The protesters here are overwhelmingly in support of the Schindlers position. They want the feeding tube to be restored anyway possible. You see some disagreement, some tensions between protesters about, you know, people think they should be more aggressively policed, others say no.
But there really is sort of unanimity of opinion among protesters who are here. You don't see that -- that tension between these two camps really playing out on the ground here.
ZAHN: Thanks Anderson. We'll be talking to you a little bit later on in this hour.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 30, 2005 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from Pinellas Park, Florida, Terri Schiavo's hospice. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Another court fight lost. Time is running out.
A special edition of 360 starts now.
Terri Schiavo, starving and clinging to life, day 13, no food, no water.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: She's still fighting, and we're still going to fight for her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Tonight, we're live for Pinellas Park, Florida, Terri Schiavo's hospice, where the fight for her life continues.
Jesse Jackson meets with Florida Governor Jeb Bush, trying to keep Terri Schiavo alive. Tonight, a 360 interview with Reverend Jackson about his involvement in the case and the fight over one human life that sparked a national debate.
Joan Kennedy, the former wife of Senator Edward Kennedy, taken to a hospital after being found lying on the street by a passerby. Tonight, the latest on the frail Kennedy's condition and details of what led to her collapse.
And could you be a racist and not even know it? Tonight, a surprising look at your unconscious. Take the test that might reveal some shocking truths about where you really stand on the race scale.
ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360, with Anderson Cooper in Pinellas Park, Florida.
COOPER: Good evening again from outside the Hospice House Woodside where Terri Schiavo is now in her 13th day, no food, no water. For Terri Schiavo's parents, today has been a difficult one indeed. That's a live shot of the front door of the hospice. Few hundred feet from there, Terri Schiavo lays dying.
A difficult day indeed for her parents. It began with a glimmer of hope for the Schindlers. A federal appeals court said it would allow them to file an emergency petition, a last-ditch attempt to save their daughter's life. But their hopes were dash dashed later that day, later today, by the very same court; the Schindlers' request for a new hearing denied.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): The strange, sad vigil here continues -- the protesters, the media, and increasingly tired and tense family keeping watch over Terri.
MARY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S MOTHER: Michael and Jody, you have your own children. Please, please give my child back to me.
COOPER: Mary Schindler's emotional plea last night didn't really change anything. Terri Schiavo has now gone 13 days without food or water. And while the inevitable end seems nearer, her parents and friends say she's fighting on.
ROBERT SCHINDLER: Terri is still with us. She's -- under the circumstances, she looks darn good, surprisingly good. She is weak from the lack of food and hydration. But her skin tone is not breaking -- is fine. She's not -- nothing's breaking down. We know that some of her organs are still functioning.
COOPER: A group of relatives and friends who visited Terri in the hospice today each came out with a similar story.
Friend Judy Bader.
JUDY BADER, SCHINDLER FAMILY FRIEND: Terri is very much awake. She's still trying to track people in the room with her eyes. She is still very much there. She hasn't gone anywhere. She's still fighting very hard to stay alive. We just have to help her.
COOPER: Cousin Betty Hughes.
BETTY HUGHES, TERRI SCHIAVO'S COUSIN: Terri is very much with us. She was aware that we were there. Her skin tone and her skin is good. We're with her. She's with us.
COOPER: And friend Sheri Payne.
SHERI PAYNE, SCHINDLER FAMILY FRIEND: Actually I was amazed too, because when I went over to her bed, she looked right up at me, like she did the other night, just like the other people that were with me. Her skin tone is wonderful. She is -- appears strong, but she is getting weaker. And if she just had a little water, I'm sure she would be fine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Of course, that is the point of big contention between these, the two sides of this family -- exactly what her condition is right now, whether or not she is feeling pain. Two very different, very starkly different sides of this story.
We are anticipating a press conference just behind me very shortly from Terri's parents. We are told they have been just in to see her. They are still in with her right now. Soon as they come out, they're going to hold a press conference. We will bring that to you live, of course.
This case really drawn attention from all around the world, and from all across the political spectrum. Today, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, a new ally of Terri Schiavo's parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, met with Florida Governor Jeb Bush. And Tom Lee, president of the state Senate, reportedly told the Reverend Jackson that there appears to be no chance the Florida legislature will revive a bill requiring doctors to reinsert Terri Schiavo's feeding tubes.
The legal avenues closed, Jackson then returned here just a few hours ago. He met privately behind closed doors with the Schindlers. I was granted exclusive access to part of that meeting. It was somber, I can tell you, it was quiet. We sat in a small circle, Jackson talking with Terri's parents, talking about what she has been able to do with her life and with her journey to death. They prayed. Terri Schiavo's father cried.
I spoke with Reverend Jackson right after that meeting.
We just came from a meeting with the Schindler family. I sat in on part of the meeting. How did they seem to you? What did you talk about?
REV. JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW PUSH COALITION: Well, there is a resolve and even a recognition that legal doors are being closed on the one hand, the clock is ticking on Terri on the other. And my advice to them is to deal with the cruel hand of fate with their faith, and try to derive from this ordeal, strength, in knowing that by her strife, many others are being healed, while we fight for her to have water and food, which she should not have not been denied, in my judgment.
COOPER: Yes, what about Terri Schiavo has brought you and all these people together, in a way?
JACKSON: Well, there is the simple morality and ethics of the matter. Most of the time, when people die, it's beyond our control. We say it's fate. And it comes with or without announcement. Noontime, the sun is eclipsed.
But here we have a case where, on the one hand, she needs food and water. On the other hand, we have food and water, will not provide it for her. And we say it's because of the law. Well, law without mercy is cruel and crude. Law must be informed by mercy to bring about justice.
As people watch her die daily, because of lack of available food and water, it is touching people in a very profound way. What is driving this? And our feelings for it must not be divided by the politics of it. It must be, what kind of public policies can come from this? What lessons can we learn from this to help salvage the other Terri's? Because, after all, there may be 30,000 Americans plus in her condition today. As Americans live longer, we're going to need to be more sensitive to how we handle this situation.
COOPER: You -- part of the message I heard you trying to deliver to the Schindlers is -- and it's a message I think that perhaps some of the protesters out here haven't heard -- is, don't be bitter. Don't allow bitterness. It's understandable to be bitter, perhaps, believing what they do. But don't allow that to color the way you see everything.
JACKSON: Because bitterness blinds us. Some people are so blinded by the divisions of race and religion and class and political parties, they can't see what's on the other side of the wall.
COOPER: But the other side...
JACKSON: Why not, why not pull down the walls, and let's have bridges, and see the beauty of what's lost by being locked behind these walls?
COOPER: Yes, when I talked to Brother O'Donnell yesterday, spiritual adviser to the family, and he said the other side basically is lying. Somebody is lying. They're not telling the truth, and there's not a sense of, you know, that the other side is coming from a good place, from a deeply felt place.
Do you believe, you know, Michael Schiavo has good intentions in his heart?
JACKSON: I think that there is pain all around. I mean, he has lived with an incapacitated wife for 15 years. And there's a lot of loss in that, and a lot of pain in that. And while they may strongly disagree with him, the reasons are, their family tensions are -- I do not believe that he wants to see his wife die. He has the position of pulling off -- pulling the tube out, I don't agree with, but I would not -- in some sense, I would not think it would be good to vilify him as some guy who is callous.
COOPER: Well, Terri Schiavo's parents have just been in to see her. We anticipate a press conference from them any moment, talking about her condition. We will bring to that to you live.
You know, despite the impression you might be getting from all this television coverage, this place, Pinellas Park, Florida, is more than just a hospice with police and protesters around it. This is a community. People live here, which is to say that Terri Schiavo has been a part of their reality for years now.
David Mattingly on the people and strong feelings here in Pinellas Park.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right, America. You need to repent.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With almost every single frame of video filled with images of signs and people protesting the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, Pinellas Park, Florida, might appear as a very crowded, intense place with a determined point of view.
But after years of following the plight of Terri Schiavo, people in this quiet city of almost 48,000, we find, have their own opinions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just about every day, whoever you talk to, that's all they're talking about is, you know, Terri Schiavo.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody's talking about it, yes. Yes. And it's been long enough.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This goes to you.
MATTINGLY: At the Parkside Diner, where lunch specials change daily, discussion about Terri Schiavo has been the one constant topic of conversation for years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that it's been 15 years, and they should let her go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter that is 37 is in cardiac at Akron General Hospital. And she told her husband, she said, Charlie, if I ever get in Terri Schiavo's state, you better give me back to my mother.
MATTINGLY: In what could be Terri Schiavo's final days, we find a clear majority of those we spoke to support the decision to remove the feeding tube, an experience that seems to mirror most national polls. And there is no shortage of opinion. Mike Legowski (ph) and Mike Morrison (ph) say there's always an argument going on at the construction site where they work, just like the one that started here at their table.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything, anything could happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I disagree. I don't think if she can live a healthy life, that she's going to be a vegetable for the rest of her life, that she should, you know -- I'm not saying, I don't want to use the word burden, but I mean, if she can't function as a human...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... if she can't eat or (INAUDIBLE)...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's your -- that's your -- well, it's...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I know. But starving them to death, that's not a good way to go. You would hope that she would be treated (INAUDIBLE).
MATTINGLY: While residents will tell you that this is the biggest event to ever hit Pinellas Park outside of a hurricane, the demonstration site and the cluster of media next to it is relatively small, on a single, out-of-the-way street. Around the corner, life goes on. The only difference here is the occasional chance to find someone like Joyce Piper who lives near the Schindlers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Myself personally, it's up to the husband. It should be the husband's choice.
MATTINGLY (on camera): Is that a tough opinion for you to have, to live that close to the parents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it is.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Outside opinions coming into Pinellas Park, however, skew heavily in favor of Terri's parents. The Pinellas Park Police reported 866 phone calls in less than two weeks, many reporting a murder in progress at Terri Schiavo's hospice. E-mails to the city are also one-sided. One read, "It is disgraceful that you would allow your police force to enforce a law that permits the murder of an innocent woman."
Many, like this one, complain about the children who were arrested. "Placing 8- and 10-year-old children in handcuffs? What is wrong with you people?"
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And Dave, you brought some of these e-mails. It's a quite a thick stack.
MATTINGLY: And this stack is just from the last five days. Almost all of them are not complimentary of the city and their involvement out here. And one of them in particular caught a lot of people's attention today. I'll read it to you. It says, "Your camp guards, who are essentially whores to the law and who are stealing Terri Schiavo, killing Terri Schiavo, will eventually be shot at. Hope there is a Pinellas Park Waco in your future, and every cop is killed. The Pinellas Park pigs will eventually pay for their crimes. Death to the pigs."
Needless to say, this is one of the threats that police here in the state of Florida and the FBI are looking into.
COOPER: And security has been tightened here, just even getting, to, for us, the searches of vehicles much tighter than they were even yesterday.
MATTINGLY: Yes, it is.
COOPER: David Mattingly, thanks very much.
Coming up next on this special edition of 360, Terri Schiavo's family doctor, one of the doctors, joins us live. Find out why he believes she is not in a vegetative state. That's a live shot. We are awaiting a press conference. The Schindlers have been in to see Terri. We are waiting to hear what they have to say, any moment. We will bring that to you live.
Also, our 360 M.D., Sanjay Gupta, helps us sort out medical facts from fiction about what state Terri Schiavo really is in.
Also ahead tonight, other news: battling alcoholism. A member of the Kennedy clan found passed out on a Boston street. Find out how it all came to this.
Also ahead tonight, judging people in the blink an eye. Whether you think you do or not, we all do it. How much does race impact what you think about other people? We're going to have a fascinating and shocking test you can take at home.
First, let's take a look at your picks, the most popular stories right now on CNN.com.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back to this special edition of 360, the battle over Terri Schiavo. That is a live shot of a location where a press conference is about to be held. Terri Schiavo's parents, the Schindlers, have been in to see her. We understand they are going to come out and speak. We of course will bring that to you live. We want to hear exactly what they feel their condition is right now, what the mood inside her room is. We'll bring that to you live, as I said.
In the seven years this case has been in the courts, they have consistently sided with doctors who say that Terri Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state. One physician who examined her three years ago on behalf of Terri's parents believes she is not in a vegetative state. He insists even now, nearly two weeks without food and water, she can still be rehabilitated. She can still be saved.
Dr. William Hammesfahr joins me now.
Doctor, thanks very much for being here.
DR. WILLIAM HAMMESFAHR: Thank you very much.
COOPER: What, I mean, all these doctors have testified she is in a persistent vegetative state. They say she can't verbalize, she is not communicative. Why do you believe that's not true?
HAMMESFAHR: Well, all these doctors is only Dr. Cranford, Dr. Greer, and Dr. Bampakitis. Dr. Maxfield and myself have examined her. Dr. Young, who saw her, Dr. Carpenter, who saw her, another physician whose name escapes me who saw her -- all of us have seen her physically do not say that she's in a persistent vegetative state.
COOPER: Well, there's some who've seen her physically...
HAMMESFAHR: And then...
COOPER: ... would say that she is. But why do you think she is not...
HAMMESFAHR: ...so we've got three to, what, five or six now, five on Terri's side and three on the, on their side, and then...
COOPER: The courts have consistently sided with those doctors who say she is...
HAMMESFAHR: Right.
COOPER: ... in a persistent vegetative state. They basically haven't bought the -- what, what you -- the argument you're making, the diagnosis you're making.
What do you see in her that makes you feel she's in a minimally conscious state? Do you thinks he responds to people?
HAMMESFAHR: Well, she did respond to people when I saw her, and apparently she still is responding to people here. She looks at you, she focuses on you. She focuses on other people around you. I would ask her to do things, and she would do things. Other people have asked her, even Dr. Cranford asked her to do things, and she would actually do it.
COOPER: The, the, this doctor who examined her most recently, or looked at videotapes of her for the state of Florida, said that, basically indicated that, I mean, she has all the qualities of being in a persistent vegetative state in his diagnosis. And then he came and said that he senses the presence of a human being. I mean, that seems to indicate that she's not responsive. I mean, what, how do you account for these discrepancies?
HAMMESFAHR: Well, minimally conscious state is what he described her as being in. And minimally conscious state is a level above coma. It's a level above persistent vegetative state. Now, you have to remember, when he saw her, he saw her a week after being dehydrated and no having food and water. So that meant that she was better when we saw her, or when the family saw her the week before. She would have deteriorated during that week, and yet she still was not in a coma yet, still not in a persistent vegetative state.
COOPER: You examined her back in 2002. I spoke with another doctor last week who also has testified in this case. I want to play you some of what he said about her condition.
HAMMESFAHR: So where do I look?
COOPER: You can just look at the camera there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. RONALD CRANFORD, MEDICAL WITNESS ON BEHALF OF MICHAEL SCHIAVO: Judge Greer had the longest evidentiary history in the history of American law in a right-to-die case -- six days, six different physicians, completely discounted the testimony of Dr. Hammesfahr and Dr. Maxwell. He didn't believe a word they said.
Seven of the eight neurologists who examined Terri over the years have all said the same thing, she's in a persistent or permanent vegetative state, and the only neurologist that's ever said otherwise was Dr. Hammesfahr, and he was discounted by the court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Why do you think the court discounted you?
HAMMESFAHR: Well, I, I'd like to take to task a little bit with that. For instance, one of the patients, one of the neurologists said that she's actually brain-dead, but then went on to identify that he hadn't done blood pressures, he hadn't done EEGs at that point, he hadn't done any of the routine tests that would be expected to be done to make that diagnosis. That was Dr. Barnhill.
Other physicians before him, I'm not aware, and I've reviewed the file, I'm not aware of them having said that she was in a persistent vegetative state by any means, Dr. DeSouza (ph), for instance, and others. I'm not aware of that diagnosis being made in any fashion.
COOPER: And, and...
HAMMESFAHR: So we're down, then, to Dr. Cranford, Dr. Greer, and Dr. Bampakitis, all who, too, testified for the husband, and one who testified for the court. And then we have a, who, all, both who, both who...
COOPER: But, Dr. Bampakitis was not testifying for the husband. Dr. Bampakitis was hired...
HAMMESFAHR: Right, for the court.
COOPER: ... by the court...
HAMMESFAHR: ... for the court.
COOPER: ... to examine her.
HAMMESFAHR: But all three of those testified that they don't treat these kinds of patients. And in addition, we have about 33 other brain-injury specialists just in the last two weeks who've done affidavits under penalty of perjury, a criminal offense, that she's not in persistent vegetative state, not in a coma. And then we have the governor's own independent physician come in and identify her not in persistent vegetative state, not in a coma. So where is the weight of the evidence?
COOPER: Doctor, appreciate you joining us. It's a difficult case. There are two sides. We like to look at all the sides. Doctor, appreciate it. Thank you very much.
HAMMESFAHR: Thank you much.
COOPER: Well, we have some other news to follow. We are continuing to wait for this press conference to occur. Of course, we'll bring that to you live, hearing from Terri Schiavo's parents.
Thomas Roberts, though, from HEADLINE NEWS joins us now with the latest about a quarter past the hour, latest updates. Hey, Thomas.
THOMAS ROBERTS, HEADLINE NEWS: Hi, Anderson.
A former top official of the Boy Scouts of America could face up to 20 years in prison after pleading guilty to child porn charges today. Investigators say a search last month turned up more than 500 images of child porn on Douglas Smith's computer. His attorney says Smith became involved in child pornography by accident, but now admits he had a problem with it. Smith once ran a Boy Scout task force aimed at protecting kids from sexual abuse.
Pope John Paul II is now being fed by a tube inserted through his nose. The Vatican spokesman says the feeding tube is needed to improve the Pope's nutrition. The 84-year-old's recovery from tracheotomy surgery is slow and progressive. The Pope appeared in his window of his study today for a few minutes, but didn't speak to the crowds gathered outside.
The death toll may have reached 300,000 people in the on-going conflict in Sudan's Darfur region. That figure from a British parliamentary report is far higher than many previous estimates. The report also urged the United Nations to impose sanctions on Sudan, and send war criminals to the International Criminal Court. Yesterday the U.N. Security Council ordered an asset freeze and travel ban on those who defy peace efforts taking place in the region.
Child obesity is so widespread in the U.S., it's overshadowing health gains made in other areas. A new study by the Foundation for Child Development says an estimated 16 percent of kids are overweight or obese, a rate that has more than tripled since 1975. On the brighter side of things, teen births are down and children were found to be smoking less and using fewer illegal drugs.
Anderson, we send it back to you in Florida.
COOPER: All right. That's certainly good news there. Thomas Roberts, thank you. We'll see you again in about 30 minutes.
This special edition of 360 continues: The Battle over Terri Schiavo. Coming up next; we're waiting for that press conference to occur any moment. That's a live shot from Terri Schiavo's parents.
Also tonight, conflicting opinions: will an autopsy end the debate, finally, over Terri Schiavo's condition? 360 M.D. Sanjay Gupta joins us live to talk about that.
Also ahead tonight, the battle over assisted suicide. When a patient decides on their own it's time to die, should they have a right to have a doctor help them? We're going to look at all sides.
Also, a little later tonight, making snap judgments in the blink of an eye. We all do it, whether we admit it or not. Tonight, we're going to look at how that affects our decision-making. Do you make decisions based on race? Even without thinking about it? A fascinating look; be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back to this special edition of 360: The Battle over Terri Schiavo -- it continues, day 13. No food, no water for Terri Schiavo. She's inside of that hospice. That shot you are seeing is the area for a press conference, staging area. We anticipate Terri Schiavo's parents to be coming out any moment now. They have spent some time with her. We're going to hear from them, her condition, their side, their side of the story, about what her condition is. I'm outside the hospice right here in Woodside in Pinellas Park, Florida. Supporters of Terri Schiavo continuing to stand vigil. As I said, this is the 13th day since her feeding tube was removed. The sad saga remains -- one of the most viewed stories on CNN.com. 360's Rudi Bakhtiar looks into these Web stories all day to bring you an angle you won't see anywhere else. Rudi joins us from New York.
Rudi, what did you find out tonight?
RUDI BAKHTIAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, no matter how this plays out, the Schiavo case will always be known for what can happen when a person doesn't make their end-of-life wishes known. But what if someone does know what they want, does ask to end their life, with the help of their physician? Can they? We're talking, of course, about physician-assisted suicide, which continues to be a hot button issue for people on both sides of the argument.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BAKHTIAR: Remember Dr. Death?
DR. JACK KEVORKIAN, PHYSICIAN-ASSISTED SUICIDE ADVOCATE: He calls it a murder, a crime, a killing. I call it a medical service.
BAKHTIAR: America's best known advocate for assisted suicide, Dr. Jack Kevorkian, is in prison, serving a 10- to 25-year sentence for second-degree murder. His crime: assisting this man who was suffering from Lou Gehrig's disease, in taking his own life.
KEVORKIAN: Daniel didn't come to me because, I want to die, kill me. He came it me to say, please help me. There was a medical affliction there.
BAKHTIAR: The 1990s, Dr. Kevorkian helped more than 130 people to their deaths. He was arrested; acquitted three times; freed, following a mistrial on another occasion; arrested again; and finally convicted.
There is one state where assisted suicide is legal: Oregon. In 1994, Oregon voters approved a Death-with-Dignity referendum. And since it took affect, 208 Oregonians -- competent, terminally ill, and meeting strict guidelines -- have swallowed fatal doses of medicine legally prescribed by a doctor.
Now, a group of citizens from Vermont is trying to make the Green Mountain State the next setting for a showdown over physician-assisted suicide. Supporters say laws to legalize the practice are a matter of justice.
DICK WALTERS, DEATH WITH DIGNITY, VT: We are encouraged to be independent people and take charge of our lives all through our lives. And today under current law in Vermont, we are in the hands of other people. I want choice. I want control.
BAKHTIAR: Walters noted that in a Zogby poll conducted in Vermont in December, 78 percent said they would support a bill before that state's legislature that would allow terminally ill patients to get medication from their doctors to hasten death.
Leading the opposition is Dr. Robert Orr, president of the Vermont Alliance for Ethical Healthcare.
ROBERT ORR, PRESIDENT, VT ALLIANCE FOR ETHICAL HEALTHCARE: The concerns that we have are that the so-called guidelines and restrictions that are in the proposed bill, after a period of time, will be expanded so that the criteria will be liberalized. This has happened clearly in the Netherlands and we're beginning to see evidence of that happening in Oregon as well.
BAKHTIAR: The bill would follow the same guidelines that are being used in Oregon to grant a physician-assisted suicide wish.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BAKHTIAR: Now, Anderson, we want to run down some of these guidelines for you: a terminal diagnosis, confirmed by two independent physicians, and, if it's recommended by either of them, an evaluation of mental competency by a mental health professional must be provided as well. Now, this request for physician-assisted suicide needs to be put in writing to the doctor, from the patient, and it is revokable at any time by the patient. There also must be a 15-day waiting period prior to receiving the requested prescription and the medication. It has to be prescribed by the doctor, but self- administered by the patient. Of course, a lot more guidelines to tell you about.
COOPER: Rudi, thanks very much.
We have the press conference; let's take you to it live. You're going to be hearing from members of the Schindler family. They have spent time in the hospice over the last -- several times today, as a matter of fact. And in a moment we're actually going to hear from two of Terri Schiavo's friends about the mood in her hospice room.
This press conference you are seeing -- that her father is behind her. Let's listen in to see what he has to say.
FATHER FRANK PAVONE: ...that has committed acts totally beyond their authority. The courts have absolutely no moral authority to order that a human being be starved and dehydrated as is happening to Terri right at this moment.
As I sat there next to her, I noticed several things: first of all, she is holding three stuffed animals. Under her right arm is a stuffed dog, under her left arm is a stuffed-animal kitten, and next to her left arm, a bunny rabbit. Were those animals real animals, we would not be allowed to do to them what is happening to Terri right now.
Next to her bed on the side table is a vase of flowers, beautiful flowers. And then across the room from the foot of her bed is another vase of flowers, also beautiful flowers.
In both cases, those flowers have plenty of water. They have more water than she does. The flowers are being taken better care of right now than our sister Terri.
What is happening here is a monumental disaster for our nation and for civilization. What is happening here is that we are buying into the idea that there are certain class of people, namely those who are disabled, that we can just go ahead and kill and not lose a good night's sleep over it.
We're witnessing here a crossroads for our nation and we've got to decide whether we're going to continue to listen to courts that absolutely have no authority to allow this to happen, or if the other two branches of government -- the executive and the legislative -- will have the will to act on their own authority.
I for one -- and I know millions around the country have the same sentiment -- am tired of hearing the executive and the legislative branches of our government say, well, the court has spoken, and there's nothing we can do. Yes, there is something you can do. Use your own authority given to you by the Constitution to protect human life.
And whether Terri survives or dies, that is going to be the ongoing question. Are we governing ourselves or not? We elect people in this country who stand for the kind of values that we do, the kind of values that our nation was founded on. And this election of 2004 showed that very clearly, that there are people ready to take their values into the voting booth. And then when we elect these people, then say they say to us, ultimately well, we can't do anything. And then unelected judges begin to chart the course of the nation for us, implementing policies and committing actions that offend the vast majority of the American people.
I stand before you tonight, with sadness and also with hope that, through your work, you in the media, we are grateful to you for being here in the way that you are, that through your work, the conscience of America may yet be awakened to the tragedy that's happening behind those walls, and may take the action necessary to see that it never happens again. Thank you so much for being here.
QUESTION: Father Frank, Father Frank. In Spanish please, Father Frank. Will you please tell us in Spanish. (SPEAKING IN SPANISH)
PAVONE: Yes, that'll be all right. Can someone translate for me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Father Frank will take a couple questions.
PAVONE: Yes, I would be glad to take a question.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
PAVONE: Now, not yet. But I look forward to doing so.
QUESTION: What was her physical condition?
COOPER: Do you know who this is? PAVONE: I saw Terri in February. And I could certainly tell the difference in her condition now. She looks much worse predictably than she did then. But I was -- I was just -- the impression that you get whether you see her is just sadness. Why is this person lying here and we can't give her a cup of water?
QUESTION: Father Frank, where do you and the family go from here? What is your next move?
PAVONE: Well, we're doing right now, through you, through your assistance, bringing -- continue to bring this to the attention of the American people, because people don't know about the facts of this case. When people talk, about, we should let her die. Well, until we started starving her, she wasn't dying. What are you talking about, let her die? Well, we don't want extraordinary medical intervention.
You know, when you and I come back from dinner, we don't say I just had my last medical treatment. We say we just had dinner, I just had a meal. Feeding a person is not medical treatment. And yet, for some 20 years now, in this country, we have had medical societies defining the kind of tube feeding that has sustained Terri as a medical treatment. It's not a medical treatment, it's feeding. It's feeding.
What do we do from here? We continue to plead. We continue to pray. We continue to educate. And again no matter what happens to Terri, you can be sure a movement has started here. In this place, at this moment, a new movement has started. And we're not going to see the end of this very soon.
QUESTION: How much more difficult is it getting for the family to walk over there? I mean, Mary's stopped visiting for the last few days?
PAVONE: I have to defer to them about that. I just want to say in reference to that, that this family is amazing. This kind of spiritual strength, the kind of faith, the kind of endurance that they have is something that I have rarely seen in my ministry as a priest.
And I travel the nation. Our Priests for Life organization is a pro-life organization that ministers to the 19,000 Catholic parishes across the country. You may be interested to know that just prior to Good Friday last week, I sent out a fax to every priest in the country with reflections on Terri's situation and I heard from many of them, that they preached about Terri and her -- and the injustice that's being inflected upon her. And we will continue to preach and to lead our people in prayer, not only for Terri, but for all who are likewise vulnerable.
QUESTION: Did you see her speak to George Felos inside of the hospice?
PAVONE: I did not. But if I speak with him, if I speak to Michael...
COOPER: We had anticipated hearing from Mr. Schindler, you see standing behind the priest there. It appears he is not going to talk.
In a moment, we are going it talk to two of Terri Schiavo's friends. People who have seen her twice today. We'll talk about what it is like inside of Terri Schiavo's hospice room. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: I was with her just within the past hour. Her lips are -- her lips have moisturizer on them. There are no cracks in her lips. Her skin tone is excellent. She's being cared for by many compassionate and highly trained hospice workers. She's in a peaceful condition. She's in a restful condition. She's under no distress. She hasn't even received Tylenol for pain relief, because she's not in pain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That is George Felos, the attorney for Michael Schiavo speaking last night about his perspective of what it like in that room, how Terri Schiavo is doing.
In this story, there are two angles at the very least, two sides to this story depending on who you talk to. Joining me now here in Pinellas Park are two old friends of Terri's -- Sheri Payne and Judy Bader. We appreciate you being with us tonight.
You have seen her today twice. What is it like in that room?
JUDY BADER, SCHINDLER FAMILY FRIEND: Well, it's pretty stark. And Terri is still aware. She's tracking people with her eyes. She's -- she's still trying to live. She's really fighting for her life. We bring in flowers and they let us bring if flowers today. Generally they stop everything at the door, but today they each let us bring in a rose for her. And she's got stuffed animals and...
COOPER: And when you go in to see her, I mean, what do you do? How do you...
SHERI PAYNE, SCHINDLER FAMILY FRIEND: We go each go up to her bed and bend down and speak to her. I speak to her about things that we used to do and how we are really fighting for her and for her to stay strong, and she is. She is staying as strong as she can.
COOPER: Do you believe that she knows about the fight that's going to here?
BADER: Definitely.
PAYNE: We tell her.
BADER: We really feel that...
COOPER: You tell her? BADER: Yes, we tell her. And we tell her everybody's praying for her, the whole world is praying for her and that everybody's fighting for her, and that she has to keep fighting and she is fighting. It's absolutely amazing.
COOPER: Is there a calm atmosphere in the room? I mean, out here it is sort of this swirling mass of media and police and protesters. Is it sort of like the eye of the storm in that room?
PAYNE: It's quiet. It is calm, yes. And mainly we pray, and we talk about the good times that we had.
COOPER: Let's talk about those, because, we all know Terri Schiavo, sadly at the end of her life. The end of her journey. You really -- you've known her since she was a little girl. What was she like as a little kid?
BADER: She was very sweet, always ready to laugh. Always had a smile. Very gentle -- a gentle spirit. She was a gentle spirit. And loved her family, her brothers and sister. They were very close-knit, still are. Very close-knit family. Always went out with us. We would go out every weekend and Terri would go with us.
COOPER: And in the Terri Schiavo that you will remember, I mean, is it -- often when people lose their lives, their families focus on how they died as opposed to how they lived their life. When you go to sleep at night, when you think about her, is it that young Terri Schiavo that you think about, or is it Terri now?
PAYNE: I do. I think about the times that Terri and I have spent together. The good times -- and I said it the other night, when we'd go dancing together, we always had such a good time.
COOPER: Was she is a good dancer?
PAYNE: Yes, she was. In fact, before we left, we turned on country music...
COOPER: Oh really? She liked to dance to country music?
PAYNE: ...in her room. Well, that was one of them. But we did turn on country music, because, at one time, they had something like church music. But we know what she likes, so we got the country music on.
COOPER: Have a little hoedown.
PAYNE: Yes, that's right.
COOPER: And, you as well? You plan on remembering her the way she lived?
BADER: Yes, definitely. This is too cruel to contemplate and I can't believe that I am living, in my generation, in the United States, and having this happen. I just -- my mind can't wrap around that this could possibly happen and that we as a society have allowed it to happen. It's incomprehensible to me.
COOPER: Will you stay here? Will you be here...
BADER: As long as her parents need us, we'll be here, yes.
COOPER: All right. Appreciate both of you being with us.
PAYNE: Thank you. Thank you.
COOPER: I'm sorry it's under these circumstances.
BADER: Thank you very much.
COOPER: All right, thank you very much.
Well, our special edition of 360 continues. We'll be right back, live, from Pinellas Park, Florida.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Top 25 technology breakthroughs that changed the world and our lives, during CNN's first 25 years. We asked experts to come up with a list.
Number 15, video games. The entertainment choice among younger generations and more profitable now than movies.
Number 14, DNA testing. Identifying the uniqueness of each person that can help reunite families or identify criminals.
Tuning in at number 13, satellite TV and radio. A better way to transmit images and sound into your home or car.
Number 12, fiber optics. Link the world using pulses of light to communicate over great distances from long-distance telephone calls to the Internet.
Number 11, space. Man has landed on the moon, proven there was water on Mars and, in an international effort, has orbited a working space station. But there is still more out there.
Stay tuned as we countdown to number one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back to our special coverage: The Battle over Terri Schiavo. We're live outside of her hospice outside of Pinellas Park, Florida.
You know, perhaps the only thing on which Terri Schiavo's husband Michael and her parents agree -- and they were disagreeing on this as well, until recently -- is that an autopsy will be performed on Terri Schiavo's body after the inevitable has happened.
360 M.D. Dr. Sanjay Gupta standing by in Atlanta to help us to understand the when and how of the autopsies, and what they do and don't show.
Sanjay, what can we possibly learn about Terri Schiavo's condition? Not -- obviously all deaths -- not all deaths lead to an autopsy? When is it conducted, and who needs to request it?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL EXPERT: Yes, I mean -- important questions. First of all, autopsies actually aren't that common. Really in less than about 10 percent of all deaths does an autopsy actually happen.
Really, there's three major reasons. One of them you already highlighted, Anderson: the family members request it. Also, in the case of a criminal or legal issue, a homicide or a suicide, for example, or an unexpected death -- specifically people who died 12 hours to 24 hours after an operation or within a day or so of being admitted to the hospital. But basically trying to answer the question, what exactly caused the death, Anderson.
COOPER: Also, there's such this battle over what is going on in Terri Schiavo's mind, literally in her brain, whether she's in a persistent vegetative state, whether she's in a state of minimal consciousness, whether she could ever recover. What are they looking for in Terri Schiavo's case in this autopsy?
GUPTA: An important question. Let me just preface it by saying, an autopsy is just another set of data points. You're not able to conclusively answer -- I know people don't want to hear that -- but you're not going to be able to conclusively answer, still, this question that we have been talking about, whether she's in a persistent vegetative state or a minimally conscious state.
Let me tell you a couple of things. They are going to look at cause of death, which is probably going to be malnutrition and dehydration. We've all been talking about that. They're also look for any other diseases that were present. They may make sure she didn't have any high doses of morphine or low potassium, things like that.
But let me just point out a couple of things to you in regard to her brain. We've had seen these CT scans, for example -- a healthy brain on the left. I think even the average person can take a look at this and see there is something drastically different about that brain on the right. There is a fluid build up around there. That is a problem, obviously. You can also zoom in a little further and actually see the brains themselves that they are going to be looking at in this autopsy. Again the healthy brain on the left; the not-so- healthy brain on the right. The brain on the right happens to be the brain of a patient who was diagnosed with persistent vegetative state.
Anderson, they're going to take all of this data, they're going to put it together and try to come to some sort of conclusion as to whether or not her clinical picture of persistent vegetative state matches what they find in autopsy.
COOPER: Some of the doctors who have testified on behalf of Michael Schiavo, and on behalf of the court, have said that spinal fluid is actually now present in her skull, in her brain, and that part of her cerebral cortex has been largely replaced by spinal fluid. Is that common? I know nothing about this, but I didn't realize that was possible.
GUPTA: Yes, first of all, it's not common, for sure, but what happens, Anderson -- and we saw that CT scan picture just a moment ago -- what happens is when brain cells die, they just shrink away. Your brain literally becomes smaller and the skull doesn't like any empty spaces. So it fills that up area with fluid, and that's where the spinal fluid comes from. That in and of itself, though, Anderson, doesn't tell you for sure that she's in a persistent vegetative state, or a minimally conscious state, or something else. It's just another data point. I keep making that point because it's really important to know that the autopsy is just going to tell us more data but not be able to answer these questions conclusively.
Anderson?
COOPER: 360 M.D., Sanjay Gupta. Thanks. Appreciate it.
GUPTA: Thank you.
COOPER: Other stories making news right now.
Thomas Roberts from the "HEADLINE NEWS" joins with us the latest.
Hey, Thomas.
THOMAS ROBERTS, HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, Anderson.
First Lady Laura Bush is on her way back, as we speak, to Washington, after giving a personal thanks to U.S. forces in Afghanistan. She capped off a five-hour visit to the country by dining with American troops in Bagram Air Force Base near Kabul. The first lady announced grants of more than $20 million to build an American University of Afghanistan, also a school that would give Afghan children an American-style education.
Doctors say the Reverend Jerry Falwell is off a ventilator and feeling better. His condition has now been upgraded from critical to serious but stable at a Virginia hospital. Falwell is said to be alert and breathing without any problems. Doctors say he suffered an acute onset of congestive heart failure but did not have a heart attack.
A brawl breaks out in Russia's parliament. No one seriously hurt in this fight -- take a look. It involved about 20 people. Fists started flying after a dispute over some election result. The lawmaker some blame for triggering the brawl was once shown on TV grabbing a woman by the neck and pulling her hair. He denies, though, starting the fight.
And it appears that aspirin is still one of the best bets of preventing strokes. A new study suggest people at risk of developing strokes caused by narrowed arteries in the brain should consider aspirin instead of a common anti-clogging drug. Researchers say patients on the blood thinner wafer had suffered a higher death rate then those who took regular-strength aspirin. The partial blockage of arteries in the brain causes about 10 percent of the 900,000 strokes in the U.S. each year.
But Anderson, before anybody changes what they take, they should probably consult with their doctor if this story perked up their ears. Back to you.
COOPER: No doubt about that. Thomas thanks very much. You'll have more headlines in about 30 minute. Our special edition, though, of 360 continues right here from Pinellas Park. Time standing still, not protesters or the media. I'll bring you my "Reporter's Notebook" ahead when our special edition of 360: The Battle of Terri Schiavo continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back. Our special coverage from Pinellas Park, outside of Terri Schiavo's hospice continues now.
You know, on 360 we don't take sides. We like to look at stories from all angles. We like to hear all different points of views. And that includes in how we tell stories. I was walking around earlier today, around -- around the protesting area with the home video camera. I just wanted try get yet another angle of the story -- sort of take you behind the scenes, what it looks like, what it feels like to be here. Here is my "Reporter's Notebook."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): Outside of the hospice where Terri Schiavo lays dying, it's hot and it's humid and time seems to stand still. At the height of the day when the sun is at its peak, the number of protesters dwindle and energy lags.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.
COOPER: The Schindlers stay sequestered in a building outside the hospice. The sign says they don't want to be disturbed. When they emerge to talk to the media or see their dying daughter, they're followed by a pack of cameras and reporters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, back it up!
COOPER: They usually don't say anything but they get followed anyway. There's not much else to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did they say anything?
COOPER (on camera): No.
(voice-over): Day after day, the story doesn't really change and yet reporters have to file something.
PETER KING, CBS NEWS: Peter King, CBS News. COOPER: Everyone's on deadline. The Schindler's lost another legal round today, so trying to influence public opinion is about the only avenue left to them.
(on camera): It looks like they're setting up another press conference.
(voice-over): A lot of people call it a media circus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like 40 -- 40 cameras around, like, 50 microphones.
COOPER: I suppose every circus needs its juggler.
NATHAN DURAL, PROTESTER: We're juggling for Jesus.
COOPER: Nathan Dural (ph) has a religious ministry. His kids are also part of the act.
DURAL: This is how I warm up.
COOPER (on camera): Anytime you have cameras and reporters around on a big story like this, you have people who are drawn to the media circus of it, who want to be on television, who want their opinions heard, want their faces on camera. And there is undeniably a number of people here like that. But there's also people here with very real emotions. And these are people who don't really necessarily care to be on television. But they want to be here. They want to bear witness to what is happening. They want in somehow, some way to save Terri Schiavo's life. Everyone here is just waiting and, as the days tick by and the sun is shining, it's hot, it becomes more and more frustrating. And everyone is just waiting. Waiting for the feeding tube to be reinserted or waiting for Terri Schiavo to die.
(voice-over): For some, this case is about facts, medical evidence, the law. For many out here, it goes far beyond that. Her smile, they say, is all they need to know.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: One more angle on this story that seems to have so many angles. Our special coverage from Pinellas Park from Terri Schiavo's hospice continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: And welcome back.
The story, of course, continues to play out this evening all through CNN's prime time coverage which continues right now with Paula Zahn.
Hey, Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, HOST "PAULA ZAHN NOW": Hi, Anderson. You talked quite a bit over the past hour about the kind of tension you've seen surface there between those who are waiting for the feeding tube to be reinserted, hope against all hope, and those who are literally waiting for Terri Schiavo to die.
Has it gotten ugly at all?
COOPER: Well, there's not really much joining of the two different sides. Michael Schiavo enters the hospice through another area. His attorney really isn't present where this (INAUDIBLE) encampment where the protesters are. The protesters here are overwhelmingly in support of the Schindlers position. They want the feeding tube to be restored anyway possible. You see some disagreement, some tensions between protesters about, you know, people think they should be more aggressively policed, others say no.
But there really is sort of unanimity of opinion among protesters who are here. You don't see that -- that tension between these two camps really playing out on the ground here.
ZAHN: Thanks Anderson. We'll be talking to you a little bit later on in this hour.
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