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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Terri Schiavo Dies; Pope's Health Worsens
Aired March 31, 2005 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from Pinellas Park, Florida. I'm Anderson Cooper.
The final hours of Terri Schiavo and the legacy she left to us all.
Plus, breaking news on the health of the pope.
A special edition of 360 starts right now.
The pope's health takes a turn for the worse. The Vatican announces the frail pontiff, suffering from a high fever, given his last rites. Tonight, the latest from Rome.
The bitter fight over Terri Schiavo is finally over, dead after 14 days without food or water. Tonight, we take you beyond the headlines. What you don't know about Terri Schiavo, the life she led before her collapse.
More than 30 exhaustive court battles. The fight between two families has now come to an end. Tonight, we take a look at both sides, the Schindlers' desperate attempt to save their daughter's life, and Michael Schiavo's determination to see his wife's will is done.
And what happened in that hospice room in the final moments of Terri Schiavo's life? Hear from a man who spent time with her just minutes before she died.
ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360, with Anderson Cooper in Pinellas Park, Florida.
COOPER: Good evening again, thanks for joining us.
The life of Terri Schiavo is over. It ended at approximately 9:00 this morning Eastern Standard time, just a few hundred feet from where I'm standing, in her hospice room in Pinellas Park, Florida.
In a moment, we're going to talk to a man who saw her minutes before she died. Tonight, we focus intensively on the death and the life of Terri Schiavo, and also on the health of Pope John Paul II.
According to the Vatican, the pope's condition worsened today, so much so he was given what the church calls the sacrament of the sick, what used to be known as the last rites. We are monitoring developments very closely in Rome at this moment, and we take you there live to CNN's Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci, for the latest the situation. Alessio, what do you know?
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Hello, Anderson.
Pope John Paul II diagnosed with a high fever and an infection to his urinary tract. The, according to Vatican officials, the pope is being treated with antibiotics, and, according to the latest statement that we got from a Vatican official, the pope is responding well to this treatment.
However, the situation, according to other Vatican officials, continues to be extremely serious as far as the e(UNINTELLIGIBLE), so much, in fact, as you mentioned, that the pope has been given the last rites, the so-called last rights, or the extreme unction.
I want you to note, Anderson, that this is not the first time that the pope was give this kind of blessing. Back in 1981, when the pope was shot by a would-be assassin in St. Peter's Square in front of a large crowd, when the pope fell in the arms of his aide in the popemobile, the -- his archbishop, his close friend and aide, Archbishop Stanislav Girish (ph), gave him the last rites. But as you know, the pope survived that attack.
So the fact that the pope was given the last rites does not necessarily mean that the pope is dying, but it certainly indicates to us that the situation here at the Vatican tonight remains extremely serious, Anderson.
COOPER: Alessio, he has not been taken to the hospital, however. Should we read anything into that?
VINCI: Well, we heard earlier tonight, when we still didn't know exactly what was happening with the pope, there were no provisions made at the Gemelli Hospital for the pope to return there. At the beginning, some people said, Well, it means the situation was -- is under control. Some other people are saying that the situation is so bad, as far as the pope's health is concerned, that he cannot be moved back to the Gemelli Hospital.
At the same time, one should (UNINTELLIGIBLE), should point out that there is, and there are medical facilities inside the Vatican, put in place there especially in the last few weeks, ever since the pope returned from the Gemelli Hospital. And Gemelli doctors visit the pope on a regular basis. There are -- is at least one of them on a 24-hour basis at the Vatican at this time, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Alessio Vinci, Alessio Vinci will continue to cover this story throughout this hour. We'll check in very shortly again with you and other correspondents there in Rome.
Sobering news from the Vatican today, as the news today here in Pinellas Park, Florida, is also sobering. You surely know by now, the life of Terri Schiavo is over. It ended this morning at the hospice here in Pinellas Park, Florida, nearly 14 days after she was last fed through a tube, a tube removed by court order after many appeals and attempts at intervention.
That's a live picture right now, some of the protesters who remain, only a few dozen, really, remain, people just wanting to stay here, not wanting to leave this site that they have held vigil at for these last 14 days or so.
There have been so many attempts at intervention by her parents, by the state and governor of Florida, by the U.S. Congress, and the president. This has been a difficult day, to say the least, both for those who were in favor of this outcome, and for those who prayed fervently for a different conclusion entirely.
We're going to hear first from Michael Schiavo's attorney, then from Terri Schiavo's sister.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: She died at approximately 9:00 a.m. Her husband was present by her bed, cradling her. His brother Brian was there. I was there, along with attorney Bushnell (ph) and many workers and caregivers from the hospice of the Florida Suncoast were there as well. Mrs. Schiavo died a calm, peaceful, and gentle death.
SUZANNE VITADAMO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S SISTER: As you are aware, Terri is now with God, and she's been released from all earthly burdens. After these recent years of neglect at the hands of those who were supposed to protect and care for her, she's finally at peace with god for eternity.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
COOPER: Well, two very different views, of course. Terri Schiavo's husband, Michael, was with her when she died. As you heard his attorney saying, he cradled her in his arms.
Even these final moments have become a point of bitterness continuing to divide this broken family. Terri's brother Bobby and a priest, Reverend Frank Pavone, have been in the room, had been in the room some 15 minutes before Terri Schiavo died, when they were asked to leave. Her brother reportedly argued for his family's right to stay, but Michael Schiavo would not allow it.
Reverend Frank Pavone joins me now. Thanks very much for being with us, reverend.
REV. FRANK PAVONE, NATIONAL DIRECTOR, PRIESTS FOR LIFE: You're welcome.
COOPER: What was it like in the -- you were really with her almost for an hour or so.
PAVONE: We were with her that morning for about an hour and a half before she died. We (UNINTELLIGIBLE), it was a time of prayer. We alternated between saying prayers, talking to Terri, assuring her of the care and concern of so many people around the country. And then also just time of silence just to be with her.
COOPER: You knew the end was near.
PAVONE: It was very clear. We had seen her last night for a long period of time, up until past midnight. And when I went in this morning, it was clear that her situation had worsened even more. So we knew that death was imminent. It was -- I mean, I'm surprised to hear the attorney say it was a gentle, peaceful death. It was a horrifying death. Here was a woman who was starved, and you could see it, you could tell. And she was -- her breathing was very rapid and shallow and labored. She was -- look of just horror and distress on her face, absolutely (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: You saying it wasn't (UNINTELLIGIBLE) peaceful?
PAVONE: No, no. Unless something changed in the five minutes between when we left the room and Michael Schiavo arrived, that was completely 180-degree turn. I mean, I don't -- it depends how you define gentle.
COOPER: There has been so much bitterness in this. And yesterday, I mean, you called Michael Schiavo a murderer. You called a judge, Judge Greer, who's ruled in this case, essentially a murderer as well. And Michael Schiavo's attorney today specifically pointed out you as a reason for some of this bitterness, and perhaps a reason the family wasn't allowed in the final moments to be in that room. Let's listen to what the attorney said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FELOS: With Father Pavone, instead of words of reconciliation, instead of words of healing, instead of words of compassion or understanding, which you might expect from a spiritual person, we had a platform for ideological agenda. We found that very counterproductive and disquieting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, is it right for you to call this man a murderer? Do you know what is in his heart?
PAVONE: Well, I don't blame George Felos for not having heard everything that I said. I have reached out publicly to Michael with the offer of reconciliation. I have preached on many, many television outlets about this. And I've directly appealed to Michael. I said, Please come back. Let's talk about this, reconsider your position. And I am always, always willing to sit down and talk with those on the other side of this divide.
COOPER: Well, it's hard to sit down with people once you've called them a murderer. I mean, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
PAVONE: Well, that is objectively describing what happened to Terri. Now, that doesn't mean that I'm not willing to talk with these people. But, you know, talking with them requires honesty about what's actually happening. This woman today died because she wasn't given any food or water for two weeks. And (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: Do you feel any sense of responsibility that your harsh words last night at a press conference or tough words today had, perhaps, continued this divide in this family? I mean, have you really worked to try to reconcile these two sides of the family?
PAVONE: We, I've worked together with the family, and this is a long-standing division they have with Michael. They themselves are of the same mind that what happened here to Terri is that they killed her. We have -- we can't go away from the truth of what happened simply in order to say, Oh, let's all be friends together.
George Felos is ideological too. He's a euthanasia advocate. And people have to understand that that's a movement too. This is a movement to take everyone who's in Terri's position And give them this option of being starved. And it won't be long before they'll say, Well, why drag it out over two weeks? Let's just give them a lethal injection. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) George Felos also, he complimented Reverend Jesse Jackson, who disagrees with Michael Schiavo and with George Felos, but for trying to sort of bridge this divide. And Reverend Jackson talked about not allowing bitterness to overwhelm and lose sight of what Terri has done for us all. You seem to be holding onto bitterness. You seem to be promoting this bitterness (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
PAVONE: No, again, it's because he doesn't know as well, apparently, as he knows Reverend Jackson. Again, we reach out with compassion. We reach out with the offer of reconciliation. But the attempt to avoid bitterness can never be the attempt to avoid truth. We have to honestly and accurately face what's happening here.
This woman was killed. Now, we can say that. Obviously, that causes a great deal of distress, because it is distressful. Something happened here today that attacks the very heart of civilization. It attacks the concept that everyone's created equal. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: You're unwilling to concede that two sides can see this differently, that both sides can have good in their heart.
PAVONE: People can have good in their heart, but the views here are irreconcilable. People are not irreconcilable, but the view that someone like Terri can be disposed of in this fashion, and the view that all people are created equal, like our Declaration of Independence says, are in fact irreconcilable views.
COOPER: Father Pavone, appreciate you being with us tonight.
PAVONE: Anderson, thank you.
COOPER: It's been a long day for you. Thank you very much.
PAVONE: Thank you.
COOPER: This special edition of 360 continues.
Up next, we're going to look at the life-and-death decisions. A family ripped apart, the untold story, though, of Terri Schiavo. How a very personal fight became such a national debate. You're going to meet a Terri Schiavo you haven't met before, the woman her friends say they want to remember, the young woman with a smile, a shy smile, a young woman who loved to dance.
Also tonight, a serious health setback for the pope. Last rites have been administered. We're going to get the very latest from Rome in just a few minutes.
First, let's look at your picks, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOBBY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S BROTHER: We have a message of forgiveness. Throughout this ordeal, we're reminded of the words of Jesus on the cross, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
Our family seeks forgiveness for anything that we have done in standing for Terri's life that has not demonstrated the love and compassion required of us by our faith.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So much pain on all sides in this debate. Those words this afternoon from Terri Schiavo's brother, expressing the faith that really has bonded the Schindler family as they've tried to keep her alive, a faith that will now guide them, we hope, through their time of grief.
Last night, I spoke with two of Terri's friends, and they both said the same thing. They will remember a Terri Schiavo very different from the woman we've come to know, the Terri Schiavo who still lives in their hearts, isn't sick, isn't lying in a hospice bed.
For just a few minutes, let's put aside the bitterness and the disagreements over what's happened. We want you at home to meet Terri Schiavo as those who love her will remember her, a young woman with a shy smile who loved to dance, a young woman full of joy and so much life.
Here's Paula Zahn with some rarely seen images from Terri's life.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA ZAHN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the time she was a baby, Terri Schindler was special.
MIKE TAMMARO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S UNCLE: Just a lovely little girl. She just very happy all the time. ZAHN: She was born on December 3, 1963, Theresa Marie, named after St. Teresa of Avila, older sister of Bobby Junior and Suzanne, the three children of Robert and Mary Schindler. Their home, a middle-class Colonial in the suburbs of northwest Philadelphia.
TAMMARO: Every person in the family brings something, and Terri was a hugger.
SUE PICKWELL, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FRIEND: Well, she was a shy girl, but very friendly.
ZAHN: Sue Pickwell met Terri in elementary school.
PICKWELL: Great laugh, we'd hear her laughing, and we started talking, and we became instant friends.
ZAHN: Terri shared everything with her friends, romance novels and crushes on '70s TV stars. But it was her love for animals that everyone remembers.
TAMMARO: She just enjoyed taking care of animals, and had a real heart for caring for animals.
ZAHN: Terri the teenager, with that big heart, struggled with her weight, tipping the scales at almost 200 pounds. Weight became her Achilles heel. She didn't even go to her high school prom, nor did she ever really have a boyfriend.
PICKWELL: I know she was not real comfortable when we were growing up. She was a little overweight, and so you tend to hold back a little. She didn't like the limelight.
ZAHN: Ironic for a young woman whose laugh was infectious and whose personality made her shy. Friends remember her turning away when the cameras came out, like in these never-before-seen pictures of Terri with her father at a high school dance.
After graduating high school in 1981, Terri went on a diet and lost more than 50 pounds. Her life would suddenly change.
One person who took notice of the new Terri, a classmate at Bucks County Community College, Michael Schiavo.
MICHAEL SCHIAVO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S HUSBAND: I fell in love with her the instant I saw her. She had this persona, this aura about her that just attracted you. She was just a beautiful smile. I mean, just shy and outgoing at the same time, you know? She was just a very sweet, sweet person.
ZAHN: November 14, 1984, about a year after their first date, and a month shy of her 21st birthday, Terri Schindler married Michael Schiavo. The elaborate wedding took place at her family parish.
Their first dance, "Tonight I Celebrate My Love."
SCHIAVO: When I saw her walking down the aisle, and I said, Oh, my God. Look at that. It was just a vision of beauty. I'm telling you, she was gorgeous. And all's I saw was her big smile.
ZAHN: Several years after her marriage, Terri's parents retired to Florida. Michael and Terri followed. It was a new life for the couple. Terri got a day job, Michael worked nights, so they didn't see much of each other. With the sun and surf and all the bikinis, Terri continued to lose weight, reaching her lowest weight since high school, 110 pounds.
JACKIE RHODES, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FRIEND: She was comfortable in her new body.
ZAHN: Jackie Rhodes and Terri worked at Prudential Insurance.
RHODES: She was enjoying her new figure, and would love to go shopping. She would buy clothes, and she just looked good in clothes.
I was not aware of any demons that she felt, you know, from being overweight.
ZAHN: Some say this new Terri got more attention, which led to jealousy, and put a strain on Terri and Michael's marriage. Jackie Rhodes says Terri confided in her that she wanted a divorce, allegations Michael vehemently denies.
SCHIAVO: We had wanted kids, and that's what we were trying to have when all this occurred. She loved kids, wanted to have a house full.
ZAHN: But that was not to be. In the early morning hours of February 25, 1990, Terri collapsed outside her bedroom.
RHODES: The waiting room at the hospital when Terri first collapsed was very full of her friends and family. At first we just thought that, you know, she had collapsed. They revived her, and that, you know, she was going to be going through some rehabilitation, then she would be, you know, Terri again.
ZAHN: And that is where the story the world now knows begins, the home videos, the allegations, the anger. But often forgotten, the young girl with the great laugh and easy smile.
PICKWELL: Happy. Friendly.
ZAHN: Who was also shy and sometimes withdrawn. The girl who turned away from the cameras 20 years before at that father-daughter dance.
PICKWELL: She didn't like the limelight. That's very ironic in spite of everything that's happening right now. But, knowing Terri, I think if she felt she could make a difference in somebody's life positively, then she would be OK with that.
ZAHN: These are the images that lifelong friends like Sue Pickwell will always remember. Cherished memories of a trip to the mall, a vacation in Disney World, a high school yearbook with Terri's good-bye words to her childhood friend. PICKWELL: I don't have to say remember me always because I know we'll always be friends forever. You'll always be a good friend, and always will be. Love, Terri.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: We'll have more on Terri's life and death shortly on 360. We've been following the pope's illness closely tonight. Here with the latest on that and other developing stories, Erica Hill from Headline News.
Hey, Erica.
ERICA HILL, HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, Anderson, good to see you again.
We start off with the latest on Pope John Paul II's condition at this hour. The Vatican says the pope has a high fever. He's being treated with antibiotics for a urinary tract infection. He was given the last rites from the Roman Catholic Church has his health deteriorated. But we should mention here, last rites are given to people who are seriously ill, not just those who are expected to die soon.
A presidential panel says U.S. spy agencies were dead wrong in most of their judgments about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction before the war. A report by the commission also says the U.S. intelligence community knows, quote, "Disturbingly little about nuclear threats posed by countries such as Iran, North Korea and China." President Bush is promising reforms.
In Monaco, Prince Albert is taking over for his father the ailing Prince Rainier. The palace says Rainier can no longer carry out his royal duties. The 81-year-old remains hospitalized in intensive care with breathing, kidney and heart problems
And "Nightline's" host Ted Koppel is leaving ABC when his contract expires in December. The network says Koppel was asked to stay on at ABC in some capacity and believes this is the right time for him to leave. Koppel has hosted "Nightline" since it launched in 1980. He spent more than four decades at the network.
And Anderson, that's the latest from Headline News. Back to you.
COOPER: All right, Erica, thanks very much to you. See you again in about 30 minutes.
This special edition of 360 continues tonight. Up next, the pope receiving last rites. As Erica just told you, his health deteriorating. We're going to take you to Rome for the very latest.
Also the lessons learned from the Terri Schiavo case. Her former guardian joins us live.
We're covering all of the angles. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: More now on the breaking news out of the Vatican where tonight Pope John Paul II is suffering from a high fever caused by a urinary tract infection. He's been given what the church calls the sacrament of the sick, you might know it as the last rites.
Joining me from Rome is CNN Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher. Delia, good to see you again.
What does it mean that they've administered the last rites to the pope? I mean, he's always been able to bounce back in the past.
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, absolutely Anderson, this is a very resilient pope. We've seen it before. He has amazed his doctors and they've come and said it, he has an amazing ability to recuperate. However, this time, of course, he has had a tracheotomy. He's being fed by a tube through his nose. So there are some mitigating circumstances in this particular crisis. However, the last rites would be administered in a case of grave illness. It has been administered to the pope before when he was shot in 1981. So in a sense, that is pro forma for the Catholic Church to administer those rights. It give a suggest that it is a grave situation, but not necessarily that the end is imminent.
COOPER: Delia, we're looking at a picture of the pope from Wednesday making an appearance in the window. You can see he's clearly struggling. The Vatican has now announced he will not be making public appearances. You think that's actually, maybe, in some ways harmful to the pope?
GALLAGHER: Well, you know, I think it's a much overlooked fact that psychologically this pope, part of his ability to recuperate has also been dependent on the fact that he loves to go out and meet people and meet the heads of state that come into the Vatican, and especially meet the crowds and the young people. Any time I've traveled with him, you've seen how he can get physically rejuvenated. And he has said it himself, that he gets rejuvenated particularly when he's with young people. So, the first thing I thought, when I heard the Vatican has suspended his public appearances, what is this going to do to the pope?
Of course, it's a disappointment for the people that come to see him. But furthermore, I think it's a huge psychological blow to the pope. He is the person who insists on coming to the window at this stage, and even before on all of his travels. He has always been the person who has insisted to go out and meet the people. Even, sometimes, against some of his aides wishes, and certainly now against his aides wishes. So, we see that they have absolutely imposed this on him, that he should not come to the window anymore. There's just too much risk for infection -- Anderson.
COOPER: Delia Gallagher, appreciate you joining us tonight. We will continue to follow this over the course of the evening and bring you any updates as warranted.
Our special edition of 360 continues. The life and death of Terri Schiavo. We're going to look at this story from all angles, the national debate that we have been engaged in.
You're looking at a live picture from Pinellas Park, Florida. We're also anticipating a memorial service that may begin any time soon. We will bring that -- images of that to you live as well. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL SCHIAVO: When Terri's wishes are carried out, it will be her wish. She'll be at peace; she'll be with the lord.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was Michael Schiavo. That was 10 days ago. Since then, he and the people close to him have, for the most part, remained silent, sequestered inside that hospice. In an exclusive interview, however, John Centonze, the brother of Michael Schiavo's girlfriend shares with us tonight what happened in those final moments between a husband and wife.
CNN's David Mattingly reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN CENTONZE, BROTHER OF MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S GIRLFRIEND: She broke down crying.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Minutes after Terri Schiavo's death, Michael Schiavo's future brother-in-law hears about the sad news and the family's reaction.
CENTONZE: She got the call from Mike and told her, and she just broke down crying. I'm happy for Terri, but it's still sad all of the way around. And Mike's very upset, my sister's crying, so it's very emotional.
MATTINGLY: Slightly shaking and his arms covered with chill bumps, John Centonze grieves for a woman he never met. After the relationship began 10 years ago between Michael Schiavo and his sister Jodi, he came to know Terri Schiavo only through Michael's stories, such loving stories, he says, he can't help but feel a deeply personal loss.
CENTONZE: It's been a long, hard fight, but I believe she's happy. Terri's probably happy now, you know? To be free and not being shown all over TV.
MATTINGLY: Centonze breaks the week-long self-imposed silence by the Schiavo family. He tells us Michael Schiavo was in the room at the time Terri died and has been spending every hour, day and night, at the hospice since Terri's feeding tube was removed.
How do you believe Michael is handling this right now? CENTONZE: Right now? He's probably beside himself right now. He's -- just from the phone call that I got, that Mike was very emotional and his brother can hardly understand what he was saying. He was just in tears. It's just -- it's been a long time coming. And even though reality is hitting him right now, it's hard. I mean, he truly loved that woman. To turn down millions of dollars shows you it wasn't about the money. He swore that he would follow out what she wanted, and he did it no matter what, no matter what anybody said, no matter how much everybody bad-mouthed him, he stood by her side until the end.
MATTINGLY: And Centonze stood by Michael as well, taking turns with the Schiavo brothers in watching Michael's home in Clearwater, trying to keep Schiavo's fiance, Jodi, and their two children, shielded from the constant news coverage and protected from the frequent threats.
CENTONZE: I don't know where it goes from here. I'm sure it's going to be pretty emotional for the next day or two, for the rest of this week. It's hard for both sides, you know. I'm sure the Schindlers are grieving just as much as Michael is.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, grief on both sides and yet they are still so far apart.
MATTINGLY: That's right. That statement that he made there at the end about both grieving, that's probably as those as the families will get. They are not going to grieve together.
COOPER: Yes, very sad, that.
David Mattingly, thank you very much.
Next up this special edition of 360, Terri's legacy. What is it going to be? How will she be remembered? Some insight from her former legal guardian, Jay Wolfson. And, starting at 8:00 Eastern tonight, here on CNN, a nation-wide conversation on life and death. America speaks out and we want to hear your voice, and you to take a part in it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TOM DELAY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: We will look at an arrogant, out-of-control, unaccountable judiciary, that thumbed their nose at Congress and the president when given the jurisdiction to hear this case anew and look at all the facts and make a determination. They chose not to participate, contrary to what Congress and the president asked them to do. We will look into that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's commenting on the court's handling of the Schiavo case. It's a reminder of how politically charged this battle has become. DeLay even called Terri Schiavo's death a, quote, "moral poverty and legal tragedy."
We don't take sides on 360. We like to look at all of the angles. We've heard from people tonight upset with the courts rulings in this matter. Now, we want to speak to a man whose job wasn't to side with the Schindlers or Michael Schiavo. His job was to protect Terri Schiavo. For two months in 2003, he was her legal guardian, appointed by the courts to represent her interest. His name is Jay Wolfson; he joins me now from Tampa.
Jay, thanks very much for being with us.
You know Terri Schiavo in a way that many of us don't. You spent some 20 days with her, at times four hours a day. Your thoughts when you heard she'd passed this morning.
JAY WOLFSON, FMR. GUARDIAN: It kind of grabbed my heart, Anderson, I have to tell you. I think a piece of me died with Terri. At the same time, I think a piece of Terri is always going to be with me as is probably going to be with all of your viewers. She's been injected into our lives and our hearts and it's a moment in time, historically, that is a watershed in many respects, especially for this time and place when tough medical decisions, difficult allocation of scarce resources, cutbacks in Medicare and Medicaid and serious questions about how we are going to articulate our intentions about end of life decisions as an individual and as society.
I think Terri has stimulated our thinking and our discussion about that, I hope.
COOPER: She has certainly stimulated a discussion about living wills, and getting health care proxies, and everyone out there should have those now. If they don't, should get them immediately.
You know, Jay, there are so many accusations made in this case, on all sides. They've continued even after Terri has died. Listen to some of what was said today. Let's just play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUZANNE VITADAMO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S SISTER: After these recent years of neglect at the hands of those who were supposed to protect and care for her, she is finally at peace with God for eternity.
FRANK PAVONE, NAT'L DIR. PRIESTS FOR LIFE: Bobby Schindler, her brother said, we want to be in the room when she dies. Michael Schiavo said no, you cannot, and so his heartless cruelty continues until this very last moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was Terri Schiavo's sister and a priest for the family. Is that the Michael Schiavo you got to know, and Terri Schiavo's sister said, "years of neglect." Was this woman neglected? WOLFSON: As we discussed last week, Anderson, was there no evidence in the medical records or the legal records -- again, those 30,000 pages of documents -- that there was any neglect at all. She was taken exquisite care of, and the rules of evidence, the rules of civil procedure, the guardianship laws, were carefully and meticulously applied.
The tragedy here is that Michael and Mary in particular -- this was a very, very close family. While they were married, during the four years after Terri's accident and Michael and Mary worked tirelessly together for years to do everything they could by her bedside. Michael took her to California to get electrodes implanted in her brain. There is simply no evidence that is in the record that there was any abuse, any neglect, only that Michael, after he learned, believed in his heart, I think, after four years, that there really was no hope of medical recovery, things that he and the Schindlers have been told for years. I guess it took him a while to internalize that.
I don't believe it stopped him ever from loving her, nor the Schindlers from loving her. These are people who shared a love for a woman who was kind, gentle, full of life and I think she would have been shocked more than anything else that her parents whom she loved and her husband whom she loved were torn apart over her.
COOPER: And, of course, remain torn apart. I want to show something else that Terri's sister said today. Let's play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VITADAMO: Following the example of the Lord Jesus, our family abhors any violence or any threats of violence. Threatening words, dishonor our family, our faith and our sister Terri. We would ask that all of those who support our family be completely kind in their words and deeds toward others.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And there have been death threats made against Michael Schiavo, against the woman he's involved with now, against his family. You wonder how this case came to this.
What do you think people at home, we in the media, what do you think we don't know about this case yet? And what do we not understand? What do you think is at its core.
WOLFSON: I think at its core, Anderson, is this is a private matter affecting people just like you and I. And if anybody out there can imagine not only the media, but the government suddenly thrusting itself into our lives and creating utter havoc for a period of years and years and years.
The enmity between the Schindlers and the Schiavos is not something new in our society, it's not something new in our culture and history. Some of the greatest battles, the greatest angers, the greatest frustrations and the greatest enmity have occurred between brothers and fathers and sisters and family members. Everything from Cane and Abel through Abraham and his sons.
The anger, the frustration, the enmity is something that goes against all the things that people of faith, people of the cloth preach. And, you know, we're a nation that claims to be exceptionally religious. We say we're the most religious nation on Earth, then my goodness, we sure have a fear of death, don't we?
COOPER: We sure do. Jay Wolfson -- and a problem with talking about, which is why we'll be focusing our special prime-time coverage tonight on life and death issues. And we're going to be -- it's a conversation with the American people.
Jay, we really appreciate talking with you tonight and also with the last through weeks. It's been a difficult time for everyone. And you've been a voice a reason. We appreciate you talking to us. Thank you very much.
WOLFSON: It's my pleasure.
COOPER: Coming up next on this special edition of 360, we're going to update our breaking news. The pope receiving last rites. The Vatican has an update on his condition. We're going to bring it to you as soon as we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: We're going to mourn Terri Schiavo. In a moment, we may take you to a memorial service that is about to begin.
But first we want to turn back for a moment to the other important story of the day: the state of Pope John Paul's health. The Vatican radio is now reporting that the pope's condition appears to have been stabilized. We go to Atlanta to 360 M.D. Sanjay Gupta to help us understand what precisely today's developments means.
Sanjay, we've heard tonight the pope is suffering from a very high fever, that he's received the sacrament of the sick. How serious is the situation?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it is very serious potentially, Anderson. You know, you have a person of advanced stage with a significant history of Parkinson's Disease here. The pope, we've been hearing about for some time.
You remember his medical history now just over the last couple of months, February 1 he was admitted to the hospital for ten days, that was for flu like symptoms. Then he was taken back to the hospital just a couple of weeks after being released February 24. He had that breathing tube placed at that time. We heard just yesterday the nasal feeding tube was inserted, a type of feeding tube. And then today, first the high fevers.
At first, Anderson, when I heard this news, I thought it was going to be pneumonia. It appears that he doesn't have pneumonia, but he does have a significant urinary tract infection. So significant, in fact, that his blood pressure dropped for a little bit, which, as a medical doctor, that's very concerning, suggesting perhaps, can't confirm this, suggesting perhaps the bacteria had actually had gotten into his blood stream as well.
They're saying he is now stabilized. That's good news. It also suggests he was unstable for a little bit of time. As you mentioned the sacrament of the sick was read, Anderson.
COOPER: I'm confused why he would have a urinary tract infection and maybe just hinted at it, that bacteria got into his blood. Is that the answer?
GUPTA: You know, it's hard to tell for sure. A couple of things spring to mind. We don't know. But certainly Parkinson's Disease sort you up for infection. Again, pneumonia being more common, but just because of the immobility associated with Parkinson's, infections are more likely.
He may have also had a urinary catheter placed during his most recent hospitalization. That's a catheter that goes into the bladder. And that can sometimes also be a foreign object that can set you up for infection.
One thing, Anderson -- go ahead.
COOPER: No, I'm sorry. Go ahead, my question was going to be how do you treat it, but go ahead.
GUPTA: You obviously treat it with the antibiotics which he's getting now. It appears that they -- they say they're working. Although, I got to tell you, it's a little early to tell whether or not they're working. His fever may have come down with some medications like Tylenol or aspirin to bring the fever down.
What I was going to say, Anderson, though, is sometimes the infection can make the Parkinson's worse. And because of the Parkinson's sort of sets you up for infection. So it's sort of a vicious cycle there a bit, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. 360, M.D., Sanjay Gupta, we appreciate the update. Thanks very much.
Larry King joins us now with the latest on what we're going to be doing, what CNN is going to be doing over the course of these next three hours. Larry, what have you got.
LARRY KING, HOST LARRY KING LIVE: Anderson, we're going to do special coverage called "Life and Death: America Speaks Out." All of our prime-time correspondents will be included, so will your phone calls, lots of guests. And I'll be anchoring it all in just about six minutes. Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: All right. Larry, thanks very much. We'll be watching.
Erica Hill from Headline News joins us with the latest at about 10 of the hour. HILL: Hi, Anderson. We start in Washington. The Justice Department now saying former Clinton national security adviser Sandy Berger will plead guilty tomorrow to a misdemeanor charge for taking classified material from the National Archives. He faces a maximum sentence of a year in prison and up to a $100,000 fine. Berger has admitted to removing copies of documents about the government's anti- terror efforts along with notes that he took on those documents. He called it an honest mistake and has denied any wrongdoing.
Former secretary of state Henry Kissinger is said to be resting comfortably at home after undergoing angioplasty earlier this week. His spokeswoman says the 81-year-old Kissinger was released today from a New York hospital. Angioplasty is a common procedure for relieving blockages to impede blood flow to the heart.
The great white shark that survived far longer than any other in captivity is now free. The Monterey Bay Aquarium in California returned the shark to the wild, mainly because it was getting too large and had begun preying on other fish. The shark was captured by a fishermen in August. It was in captivity for 198 days, which is a lot more than the previous captivity record of 16 days. And that's the latest from Headline News.
Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: All right, Erica, thanks very much.
I want to take you live to a memorial service that's going on at the Praise Cathedral Renewal Center. A memorial service organized by this man, Randall Terry, of course, well known activist. Members of the Schindler family are there. It's a memorial service for Terri Schiavo that's just beginning. There you see Bob Schindler, Terri Schiavo's father, as well as some of his spiritual advisers flanking him on either side.
Our coverage of the life and death of Terri Schiavo continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FELOS: I certainly think that Mrs. Schiavo's death, which all of us have experienced one way or another has led to a family dialogue, a community dialogue and a national dialogue and perhaps a worldwide dialogue about death, dying, the dying process, the rights of the individual, the interest of society, how those are balanced and how these decisions can be made and implemented.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, today America lost someone we felt we'd gotten to know over the past several weeks. Terri Schiavo's death has prompted strong feelings and often mixed feelings about life and death. And the proper place of medicine, religion, the law and politics. Until now, there have been millions of private conversations about all of this.
Tonight, CNN is devoting the rest of this evening to a national conversation and we want you to take a part.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 31, 2005 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from Pinellas Park, Florida. I'm Anderson Cooper.
The final hours of Terri Schiavo and the legacy she left to us all.
Plus, breaking news on the health of the pope.
A special edition of 360 starts right now.
The pope's health takes a turn for the worse. The Vatican announces the frail pontiff, suffering from a high fever, given his last rites. Tonight, the latest from Rome.
The bitter fight over Terri Schiavo is finally over, dead after 14 days without food or water. Tonight, we take you beyond the headlines. What you don't know about Terri Schiavo, the life she led before her collapse.
More than 30 exhaustive court battles. The fight between two families has now come to an end. Tonight, we take a look at both sides, the Schindlers' desperate attempt to save their daughter's life, and Michael Schiavo's determination to see his wife's will is done.
And what happened in that hospice room in the final moments of Terri Schiavo's life? Hear from a man who spent time with her just minutes before she died.
ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360, with Anderson Cooper in Pinellas Park, Florida.
COOPER: Good evening again, thanks for joining us.
The life of Terri Schiavo is over. It ended at approximately 9:00 this morning Eastern Standard time, just a few hundred feet from where I'm standing, in her hospice room in Pinellas Park, Florida.
In a moment, we're going to talk to a man who saw her minutes before she died. Tonight, we focus intensively on the death and the life of Terri Schiavo, and also on the health of Pope John Paul II.
According to the Vatican, the pope's condition worsened today, so much so he was given what the church calls the sacrament of the sick, what used to be known as the last rites. We are monitoring developments very closely in Rome at this moment, and we take you there live to CNN's Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci, for the latest the situation. Alessio, what do you know?
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Hello, Anderson.
Pope John Paul II diagnosed with a high fever and an infection to his urinary tract. The, according to Vatican officials, the pope is being treated with antibiotics, and, according to the latest statement that we got from a Vatican official, the pope is responding well to this treatment.
However, the situation, according to other Vatican officials, continues to be extremely serious as far as the e(UNINTELLIGIBLE), so much, in fact, as you mentioned, that the pope has been given the last rites, the so-called last rights, or the extreme unction.
I want you to note, Anderson, that this is not the first time that the pope was give this kind of blessing. Back in 1981, when the pope was shot by a would-be assassin in St. Peter's Square in front of a large crowd, when the pope fell in the arms of his aide in the popemobile, the -- his archbishop, his close friend and aide, Archbishop Stanislav Girish (ph), gave him the last rites. But as you know, the pope survived that attack.
So the fact that the pope was given the last rites does not necessarily mean that the pope is dying, but it certainly indicates to us that the situation here at the Vatican tonight remains extremely serious, Anderson.
COOPER: Alessio, he has not been taken to the hospital, however. Should we read anything into that?
VINCI: Well, we heard earlier tonight, when we still didn't know exactly what was happening with the pope, there were no provisions made at the Gemelli Hospital for the pope to return there. At the beginning, some people said, Well, it means the situation was -- is under control. Some other people are saying that the situation is so bad, as far as the pope's health is concerned, that he cannot be moved back to the Gemelli Hospital.
At the same time, one should (UNINTELLIGIBLE), should point out that there is, and there are medical facilities inside the Vatican, put in place there especially in the last few weeks, ever since the pope returned from the Gemelli Hospital. And Gemelli doctors visit the pope on a regular basis. There are -- is at least one of them on a 24-hour basis at the Vatican at this time, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Alessio Vinci, Alessio Vinci will continue to cover this story throughout this hour. We'll check in very shortly again with you and other correspondents there in Rome.
Sobering news from the Vatican today, as the news today here in Pinellas Park, Florida, is also sobering. You surely know by now, the life of Terri Schiavo is over. It ended this morning at the hospice here in Pinellas Park, Florida, nearly 14 days after she was last fed through a tube, a tube removed by court order after many appeals and attempts at intervention.
That's a live picture right now, some of the protesters who remain, only a few dozen, really, remain, people just wanting to stay here, not wanting to leave this site that they have held vigil at for these last 14 days or so.
There have been so many attempts at intervention by her parents, by the state and governor of Florida, by the U.S. Congress, and the president. This has been a difficult day, to say the least, both for those who were in favor of this outcome, and for those who prayed fervently for a different conclusion entirely.
We're going to hear first from Michael Schiavo's attorney, then from Terri Schiavo's sister.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: She died at approximately 9:00 a.m. Her husband was present by her bed, cradling her. His brother Brian was there. I was there, along with attorney Bushnell (ph) and many workers and caregivers from the hospice of the Florida Suncoast were there as well. Mrs. Schiavo died a calm, peaceful, and gentle death.
SUZANNE VITADAMO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S SISTER: As you are aware, Terri is now with God, and she's been released from all earthly burdens. After these recent years of neglect at the hands of those who were supposed to protect and care for her, she's finally at peace with god for eternity.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
COOPER: Well, two very different views, of course. Terri Schiavo's husband, Michael, was with her when she died. As you heard his attorney saying, he cradled her in his arms.
Even these final moments have become a point of bitterness continuing to divide this broken family. Terri's brother Bobby and a priest, Reverend Frank Pavone, have been in the room, had been in the room some 15 minutes before Terri Schiavo died, when they were asked to leave. Her brother reportedly argued for his family's right to stay, but Michael Schiavo would not allow it.
Reverend Frank Pavone joins me now. Thanks very much for being with us, reverend.
REV. FRANK PAVONE, NATIONAL DIRECTOR, PRIESTS FOR LIFE: You're welcome.
COOPER: What was it like in the -- you were really with her almost for an hour or so.
PAVONE: We were with her that morning for about an hour and a half before she died. We (UNINTELLIGIBLE), it was a time of prayer. We alternated between saying prayers, talking to Terri, assuring her of the care and concern of so many people around the country. And then also just time of silence just to be with her.
COOPER: You knew the end was near.
PAVONE: It was very clear. We had seen her last night for a long period of time, up until past midnight. And when I went in this morning, it was clear that her situation had worsened even more. So we knew that death was imminent. It was -- I mean, I'm surprised to hear the attorney say it was a gentle, peaceful death. It was a horrifying death. Here was a woman who was starved, and you could see it, you could tell. And she was -- her breathing was very rapid and shallow and labored. She was -- look of just horror and distress on her face, absolutely (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: You saying it wasn't (UNINTELLIGIBLE) peaceful?
PAVONE: No, no. Unless something changed in the five minutes between when we left the room and Michael Schiavo arrived, that was completely 180-degree turn. I mean, I don't -- it depends how you define gentle.
COOPER: There has been so much bitterness in this. And yesterday, I mean, you called Michael Schiavo a murderer. You called a judge, Judge Greer, who's ruled in this case, essentially a murderer as well. And Michael Schiavo's attorney today specifically pointed out you as a reason for some of this bitterness, and perhaps a reason the family wasn't allowed in the final moments to be in that room. Let's listen to what the attorney said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FELOS: With Father Pavone, instead of words of reconciliation, instead of words of healing, instead of words of compassion or understanding, which you might expect from a spiritual person, we had a platform for ideological agenda. We found that very counterproductive and disquieting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, is it right for you to call this man a murderer? Do you know what is in his heart?
PAVONE: Well, I don't blame George Felos for not having heard everything that I said. I have reached out publicly to Michael with the offer of reconciliation. I have preached on many, many television outlets about this. And I've directly appealed to Michael. I said, Please come back. Let's talk about this, reconsider your position. And I am always, always willing to sit down and talk with those on the other side of this divide.
COOPER: Well, it's hard to sit down with people once you've called them a murderer. I mean, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
PAVONE: Well, that is objectively describing what happened to Terri. Now, that doesn't mean that I'm not willing to talk with these people. But, you know, talking with them requires honesty about what's actually happening. This woman today died because she wasn't given any food or water for two weeks. And (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: Do you feel any sense of responsibility that your harsh words last night at a press conference or tough words today had, perhaps, continued this divide in this family? I mean, have you really worked to try to reconcile these two sides of the family?
PAVONE: We, I've worked together with the family, and this is a long-standing division they have with Michael. They themselves are of the same mind that what happened here to Terri is that they killed her. We have -- we can't go away from the truth of what happened simply in order to say, Oh, let's all be friends together.
George Felos is ideological too. He's a euthanasia advocate. And people have to understand that that's a movement too. This is a movement to take everyone who's in Terri's position And give them this option of being starved. And it won't be long before they'll say, Well, why drag it out over two weeks? Let's just give them a lethal injection. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) George Felos also, he complimented Reverend Jesse Jackson, who disagrees with Michael Schiavo and with George Felos, but for trying to sort of bridge this divide. And Reverend Jackson talked about not allowing bitterness to overwhelm and lose sight of what Terri has done for us all. You seem to be holding onto bitterness. You seem to be promoting this bitterness (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
PAVONE: No, again, it's because he doesn't know as well, apparently, as he knows Reverend Jackson. Again, we reach out with compassion. We reach out with the offer of reconciliation. But the attempt to avoid bitterness can never be the attempt to avoid truth. We have to honestly and accurately face what's happening here.
This woman was killed. Now, we can say that. Obviously, that causes a great deal of distress, because it is distressful. Something happened here today that attacks the very heart of civilization. It attacks the concept that everyone's created equal. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: You're unwilling to concede that two sides can see this differently, that both sides can have good in their heart.
PAVONE: People can have good in their heart, but the views here are irreconcilable. People are not irreconcilable, but the view that someone like Terri can be disposed of in this fashion, and the view that all people are created equal, like our Declaration of Independence says, are in fact irreconcilable views.
COOPER: Father Pavone, appreciate you being with us tonight.
PAVONE: Anderson, thank you.
COOPER: It's been a long day for you. Thank you very much.
PAVONE: Thank you.
COOPER: This special edition of 360 continues.
Up next, we're going to look at the life-and-death decisions. A family ripped apart, the untold story, though, of Terri Schiavo. How a very personal fight became such a national debate. You're going to meet a Terri Schiavo you haven't met before, the woman her friends say they want to remember, the young woman with a smile, a shy smile, a young woman who loved to dance.
Also tonight, a serious health setback for the pope. Last rites have been administered. We're going to get the very latest from Rome in just a few minutes.
First, let's look at your picks, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOBBY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S BROTHER: We have a message of forgiveness. Throughout this ordeal, we're reminded of the words of Jesus on the cross, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
Our family seeks forgiveness for anything that we have done in standing for Terri's life that has not demonstrated the love and compassion required of us by our faith.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So much pain on all sides in this debate. Those words this afternoon from Terri Schiavo's brother, expressing the faith that really has bonded the Schindler family as they've tried to keep her alive, a faith that will now guide them, we hope, through their time of grief.
Last night, I spoke with two of Terri's friends, and they both said the same thing. They will remember a Terri Schiavo very different from the woman we've come to know, the Terri Schiavo who still lives in their hearts, isn't sick, isn't lying in a hospice bed.
For just a few minutes, let's put aside the bitterness and the disagreements over what's happened. We want you at home to meet Terri Schiavo as those who love her will remember her, a young woman with a shy smile who loved to dance, a young woman full of joy and so much life.
Here's Paula Zahn with some rarely seen images from Terri's life.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA ZAHN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the time she was a baby, Terri Schindler was special.
MIKE TAMMARO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S UNCLE: Just a lovely little girl. She just very happy all the time. ZAHN: She was born on December 3, 1963, Theresa Marie, named after St. Teresa of Avila, older sister of Bobby Junior and Suzanne, the three children of Robert and Mary Schindler. Their home, a middle-class Colonial in the suburbs of northwest Philadelphia.
TAMMARO: Every person in the family brings something, and Terri was a hugger.
SUE PICKWELL, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FRIEND: Well, she was a shy girl, but very friendly.
ZAHN: Sue Pickwell met Terri in elementary school.
PICKWELL: Great laugh, we'd hear her laughing, and we started talking, and we became instant friends.
ZAHN: Terri shared everything with her friends, romance novels and crushes on '70s TV stars. But it was her love for animals that everyone remembers.
TAMMARO: She just enjoyed taking care of animals, and had a real heart for caring for animals.
ZAHN: Terri the teenager, with that big heart, struggled with her weight, tipping the scales at almost 200 pounds. Weight became her Achilles heel. She didn't even go to her high school prom, nor did she ever really have a boyfriend.
PICKWELL: I know she was not real comfortable when we were growing up. She was a little overweight, and so you tend to hold back a little. She didn't like the limelight.
ZAHN: Ironic for a young woman whose laugh was infectious and whose personality made her shy. Friends remember her turning away when the cameras came out, like in these never-before-seen pictures of Terri with her father at a high school dance.
After graduating high school in 1981, Terri went on a diet and lost more than 50 pounds. Her life would suddenly change.
One person who took notice of the new Terri, a classmate at Bucks County Community College, Michael Schiavo.
MICHAEL SCHIAVO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S HUSBAND: I fell in love with her the instant I saw her. She had this persona, this aura about her that just attracted you. She was just a beautiful smile. I mean, just shy and outgoing at the same time, you know? She was just a very sweet, sweet person.
ZAHN: November 14, 1984, about a year after their first date, and a month shy of her 21st birthday, Terri Schindler married Michael Schiavo. The elaborate wedding took place at her family parish.
Their first dance, "Tonight I Celebrate My Love."
SCHIAVO: When I saw her walking down the aisle, and I said, Oh, my God. Look at that. It was just a vision of beauty. I'm telling you, she was gorgeous. And all's I saw was her big smile.
ZAHN: Several years after her marriage, Terri's parents retired to Florida. Michael and Terri followed. It was a new life for the couple. Terri got a day job, Michael worked nights, so they didn't see much of each other. With the sun and surf and all the bikinis, Terri continued to lose weight, reaching her lowest weight since high school, 110 pounds.
JACKIE RHODES, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FRIEND: She was comfortable in her new body.
ZAHN: Jackie Rhodes and Terri worked at Prudential Insurance.
RHODES: She was enjoying her new figure, and would love to go shopping. She would buy clothes, and she just looked good in clothes.
I was not aware of any demons that she felt, you know, from being overweight.
ZAHN: Some say this new Terri got more attention, which led to jealousy, and put a strain on Terri and Michael's marriage. Jackie Rhodes says Terri confided in her that she wanted a divorce, allegations Michael vehemently denies.
SCHIAVO: We had wanted kids, and that's what we were trying to have when all this occurred. She loved kids, wanted to have a house full.
ZAHN: But that was not to be. In the early morning hours of February 25, 1990, Terri collapsed outside her bedroom.
RHODES: The waiting room at the hospital when Terri first collapsed was very full of her friends and family. At first we just thought that, you know, she had collapsed. They revived her, and that, you know, she was going to be going through some rehabilitation, then she would be, you know, Terri again.
ZAHN: And that is where the story the world now knows begins, the home videos, the allegations, the anger. But often forgotten, the young girl with the great laugh and easy smile.
PICKWELL: Happy. Friendly.
ZAHN: Who was also shy and sometimes withdrawn. The girl who turned away from the cameras 20 years before at that father-daughter dance.
PICKWELL: She didn't like the limelight. That's very ironic in spite of everything that's happening right now. But, knowing Terri, I think if she felt she could make a difference in somebody's life positively, then she would be OK with that.
ZAHN: These are the images that lifelong friends like Sue Pickwell will always remember. Cherished memories of a trip to the mall, a vacation in Disney World, a high school yearbook with Terri's good-bye words to her childhood friend. PICKWELL: I don't have to say remember me always because I know we'll always be friends forever. You'll always be a good friend, and always will be. Love, Terri.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: We'll have more on Terri's life and death shortly on 360. We've been following the pope's illness closely tonight. Here with the latest on that and other developing stories, Erica Hill from Headline News.
Hey, Erica.
ERICA HILL, HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, Anderson, good to see you again.
We start off with the latest on Pope John Paul II's condition at this hour. The Vatican says the pope has a high fever. He's being treated with antibiotics for a urinary tract infection. He was given the last rites from the Roman Catholic Church has his health deteriorated. But we should mention here, last rites are given to people who are seriously ill, not just those who are expected to die soon.
A presidential panel says U.S. spy agencies were dead wrong in most of their judgments about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction before the war. A report by the commission also says the U.S. intelligence community knows, quote, "Disturbingly little about nuclear threats posed by countries such as Iran, North Korea and China." President Bush is promising reforms.
In Monaco, Prince Albert is taking over for his father the ailing Prince Rainier. The palace says Rainier can no longer carry out his royal duties. The 81-year-old remains hospitalized in intensive care with breathing, kidney and heart problems
And "Nightline's" host Ted Koppel is leaving ABC when his contract expires in December. The network says Koppel was asked to stay on at ABC in some capacity and believes this is the right time for him to leave. Koppel has hosted "Nightline" since it launched in 1980. He spent more than four decades at the network.
And Anderson, that's the latest from Headline News. Back to you.
COOPER: All right, Erica, thanks very much to you. See you again in about 30 minutes.
This special edition of 360 continues tonight. Up next, the pope receiving last rites. As Erica just told you, his health deteriorating. We're going to take you to Rome for the very latest.
Also the lessons learned from the Terri Schiavo case. Her former guardian joins us live.
We're covering all of the angles. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: More now on the breaking news out of the Vatican where tonight Pope John Paul II is suffering from a high fever caused by a urinary tract infection. He's been given what the church calls the sacrament of the sick, you might know it as the last rites.
Joining me from Rome is CNN Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher. Delia, good to see you again.
What does it mean that they've administered the last rites to the pope? I mean, he's always been able to bounce back in the past.
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, absolutely Anderson, this is a very resilient pope. We've seen it before. He has amazed his doctors and they've come and said it, he has an amazing ability to recuperate. However, this time, of course, he has had a tracheotomy. He's being fed by a tube through his nose. So there are some mitigating circumstances in this particular crisis. However, the last rites would be administered in a case of grave illness. It has been administered to the pope before when he was shot in 1981. So in a sense, that is pro forma for the Catholic Church to administer those rights. It give a suggest that it is a grave situation, but not necessarily that the end is imminent.
COOPER: Delia, we're looking at a picture of the pope from Wednesday making an appearance in the window. You can see he's clearly struggling. The Vatican has now announced he will not be making public appearances. You think that's actually, maybe, in some ways harmful to the pope?
GALLAGHER: Well, you know, I think it's a much overlooked fact that psychologically this pope, part of his ability to recuperate has also been dependent on the fact that he loves to go out and meet people and meet the heads of state that come into the Vatican, and especially meet the crowds and the young people. Any time I've traveled with him, you've seen how he can get physically rejuvenated. And he has said it himself, that he gets rejuvenated particularly when he's with young people. So, the first thing I thought, when I heard the Vatican has suspended his public appearances, what is this going to do to the pope?
Of course, it's a disappointment for the people that come to see him. But furthermore, I think it's a huge psychological blow to the pope. He is the person who insists on coming to the window at this stage, and even before on all of his travels. He has always been the person who has insisted to go out and meet the people. Even, sometimes, against some of his aides wishes, and certainly now against his aides wishes. So, we see that they have absolutely imposed this on him, that he should not come to the window anymore. There's just too much risk for infection -- Anderson.
COOPER: Delia Gallagher, appreciate you joining us tonight. We will continue to follow this over the course of the evening and bring you any updates as warranted.
Our special edition of 360 continues. The life and death of Terri Schiavo. We're going to look at this story from all angles, the national debate that we have been engaged in.
You're looking at a live picture from Pinellas Park, Florida. We're also anticipating a memorial service that may begin any time soon. We will bring that -- images of that to you live as well. We'll be right back.
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MICHAEL SCHIAVO: When Terri's wishes are carried out, it will be her wish. She'll be at peace; she'll be with the lord.
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COOPER: That was Michael Schiavo. That was 10 days ago. Since then, he and the people close to him have, for the most part, remained silent, sequestered inside that hospice. In an exclusive interview, however, John Centonze, the brother of Michael Schiavo's girlfriend shares with us tonight what happened in those final moments between a husband and wife.
CNN's David Mattingly reports.
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JOHN CENTONZE, BROTHER OF MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S GIRLFRIEND: She broke down crying.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Minutes after Terri Schiavo's death, Michael Schiavo's future brother-in-law hears about the sad news and the family's reaction.
CENTONZE: She got the call from Mike and told her, and she just broke down crying. I'm happy for Terri, but it's still sad all of the way around. And Mike's very upset, my sister's crying, so it's very emotional.
MATTINGLY: Slightly shaking and his arms covered with chill bumps, John Centonze grieves for a woman he never met. After the relationship began 10 years ago between Michael Schiavo and his sister Jodi, he came to know Terri Schiavo only through Michael's stories, such loving stories, he says, he can't help but feel a deeply personal loss.
CENTONZE: It's been a long, hard fight, but I believe she's happy. Terri's probably happy now, you know? To be free and not being shown all over TV.
MATTINGLY: Centonze breaks the week-long self-imposed silence by the Schiavo family. He tells us Michael Schiavo was in the room at the time Terri died and has been spending every hour, day and night, at the hospice since Terri's feeding tube was removed.
How do you believe Michael is handling this right now? CENTONZE: Right now? He's probably beside himself right now. He's -- just from the phone call that I got, that Mike was very emotional and his brother can hardly understand what he was saying. He was just in tears. It's just -- it's been a long time coming. And even though reality is hitting him right now, it's hard. I mean, he truly loved that woman. To turn down millions of dollars shows you it wasn't about the money. He swore that he would follow out what she wanted, and he did it no matter what, no matter what anybody said, no matter how much everybody bad-mouthed him, he stood by her side until the end.
MATTINGLY: And Centonze stood by Michael as well, taking turns with the Schiavo brothers in watching Michael's home in Clearwater, trying to keep Schiavo's fiance, Jodi, and their two children, shielded from the constant news coverage and protected from the frequent threats.
CENTONZE: I don't know where it goes from here. I'm sure it's going to be pretty emotional for the next day or two, for the rest of this week. It's hard for both sides, you know. I'm sure the Schindlers are grieving just as much as Michael is.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, grief on both sides and yet they are still so far apart.
MATTINGLY: That's right. That statement that he made there at the end about both grieving, that's probably as those as the families will get. They are not going to grieve together.
COOPER: Yes, very sad, that.
David Mattingly, thank you very much.
Next up this special edition of 360, Terri's legacy. What is it going to be? How will she be remembered? Some insight from her former legal guardian, Jay Wolfson. And, starting at 8:00 Eastern tonight, here on CNN, a nation-wide conversation on life and death. America speaks out and we want to hear your voice, and you to take a part in it.
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REP. TOM DELAY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: We will look at an arrogant, out-of-control, unaccountable judiciary, that thumbed their nose at Congress and the president when given the jurisdiction to hear this case anew and look at all the facts and make a determination. They chose not to participate, contrary to what Congress and the president asked them to do. We will look into that.
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COOPER: That was House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's commenting on the court's handling of the Schiavo case. It's a reminder of how politically charged this battle has become. DeLay even called Terri Schiavo's death a, quote, "moral poverty and legal tragedy."
We don't take sides on 360. We like to look at all of the angles. We've heard from people tonight upset with the courts rulings in this matter. Now, we want to speak to a man whose job wasn't to side with the Schindlers or Michael Schiavo. His job was to protect Terri Schiavo. For two months in 2003, he was her legal guardian, appointed by the courts to represent her interest. His name is Jay Wolfson; he joins me now from Tampa.
Jay, thanks very much for being with us.
You know Terri Schiavo in a way that many of us don't. You spent some 20 days with her, at times four hours a day. Your thoughts when you heard she'd passed this morning.
JAY WOLFSON, FMR. GUARDIAN: It kind of grabbed my heart, Anderson, I have to tell you. I think a piece of me died with Terri. At the same time, I think a piece of Terri is always going to be with me as is probably going to be with all of your viewers. She's been injected into our lives and our hearts and it's a moment in time, historically, that is a watershed in many respects, especially for this time and place when tough medical decisions, difficult allocation of scarce resources, cutbacks in Medicare and Medicaid and serious questions about how we are going to articulate our intentions about end of life decisions as an individual and as society.
I think Terri has stimulated our thinking and our discussion about that, I hope.
COOPER: She has certainly stimulated a discussion about living wills, and getting health care proxies, and everyone out there should have those now. If they don't, should get them immediately.
You know, Jay, there are so many accusations made in this case, on all sides. They've continued even after Terri has died. Listen to some of what was said today. Let's just play that.
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SUZANNE VITADAMO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S SISTER: After these recent years of neglect at the hands of those who were supposed to protect and care for her, she is finally at peace with God for eternity.
FRANK PAVONE, NAT'L DIR. PRIESTS FOR LIFE: Bobby Schindler, her brother said, we want to be in the room when she dies. Michael Schiavo said no, you cannot, and so his heartless cruelty continues until this very last moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was Terri Schiavo's sister and a priest for the family. Is that the Michael Schiavo you got to know, and Terri Schiavo's sister said, "years of neglect." Was this woman neglected? WOLFSON: As we discussed last week, Anderson, was there no evidence in the medical records or the legal records -- again, those 30,000 pages of documents -- that there was any neglect at all. She was taken exquisite care of, and the rules of evidence, the rules of civil procedure, the guardianship laws, were carefully and meticulously applied.
The tragedy here is that Michael and Mary in particular -- this was a very, very close family. While they were married, during the four years after Terri's accident and Michael and Mary worked tirelessly together for years to do everything they could by her bedside. Michael took her to California to get electrodes implanted in her brain. There is simply no evidence that is in the record that there was any abuse, any neglect, only that Michael, after he learned, believed in his heart, I think, after four years, that there really was no hope of medical recovery, things that he and the Schindlers have been told for years. I guess it took him a while to internalize that.
I don't believe it stopped him ever from loving her, nor the Schindlers from loving her. These are people who shared a love for a woman who was kind, gentle, full of life and I think she would have been shocked more than anything else that her parents whom she loved and her husband whom she loved were torn apart over her.
COOPER: And, of course, remain torn apart. I want to show something else that Terri's sister said today. Let's play that.
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VITADAMO: Following the example of the Lord Jesus, our family abhors any violence or any threats of violence. Threatening words, dishonor our family, our faith and our sister Terri. We would ask that all of those who support our family be completely kind in their words and deeds toward others.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And there have been death threats made against Michael Schiavo, against the woman he's involved with now, against his family. You wonder how this case came to this.
What do you think people at home, we in the media, what do you think we don't know about this case yet? And what do we not understand? What do you think is at its core.
WOLFSON: I think at its core, Anderson, is this is a private matter affecting people just like you and I. And if anybody out there can imagine not only the media, but the government suddenly thrusting itself into our lives and creating utter havoc for a period of years and years and years.
The enmity between the Schindlers and the Schiavos is not something new in our society, it's not something new in our culture and history. Some of the greatest battles, the greatest angers, the greatest frustrations and the greatest enmity have occurred between brothers and fathers and sisters and family members. Everything from Cane and Abel through Abraham and his sons.
The anger, the frustration, the enmity is something that goes against all the things that people of faith, people of the cloth preach. And, you know, we're a nation that claims to be exceptionally religious. We say we're the most religious nation on Earth, then my goodness, we sure have a fear of death, don't we?
COOPER: We sure do. Jay Wolfson -- and a problem with talking about, which is why we'll be focusing our special prime-time coverage tonight on life and death issues. And we're going to be -- it's a conversation with the American people.
Jay, we really appreciate talking with you tonight and also with the last through weeks. It's been a difficult time for everyone. And you've been a voice a reason. We appreciate you talking to us. Thank you very much.
WOLFSON: It's my pleasure.
COOPER: Coming up next on this special edition of 360, we're going to update our breaking news. The pope receiving last rites. The Vatican has an update on his condition. We're going to bring it to you as soon as we come back.
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COOPER: We're going to mourn Terri Schiavo. In a moment, we may take you to a memorial service that is about to begin.
But first we want to turn back for a moment to the other important story of the day: the state of Pope John Paul's health. The Vatican radio is now reporting that the pope's condition appears to have been stabilized. We go to Atlanta to 360 M.D. Sanjay Gupta to help us understand what precisely today's developments means.
Sanjay, we've heard tonight the pope is suffering from a very high fever, that he's received the sacrament of the sick. How serious is the situation?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it is very serious potentially, Anderson. You know, you have a person of advanced stage with a significant history of Parkinson's Disease here. The pope, we've been hearing about for some time.
You remember his medical history now just over the last couple of months, February 1 he was admitted to the hospital for ten days, that was for flu like symptoms. Then he was taken back to the hospital just a couple of weeks after being released February 24. He had that breathing tube placed at that time. We heard just yesterday the nasal feeding tube was inserted, a type of feeding tube. And then today, first the high fevers.
At first, Anderson, when I heard this news, I thought it was going to be pneumonia. It appears that he doesn't have pneumonia, but he does have a significant urinary tract infection. So significant, in fact, that his blood pressure dropped for a little bit, which, as a medical doctor, that's very concerning, suggesting perhaps, can't confirm this, suggesting perhaps the bacteria had actually had gotten into his blood stream as well.
They're saying he is now stabilized. That's good news. It also suggests he was unstable for a little bit of time. As you mentioned the sacrament of the sick was read, Anderson.
COOPER: I'm confused why he would have a urinary tract infection and maybe just hinted at it, that bacteria got into his blood. Is that the answer?
GUPTA: You know, it's hard to tell for sure. A couple of things spring to mind. We don't know. But certainly Parkinson's Disease sort you up for infection. Again, pneumonia being more common, but just because of the immobility associated with Parkinson's, infections are more likely.
He may have also had a urinary catheter placed during his most recent hospitalization. That's a catheter that goes into the bladder. And that can sometimes also be a foreign object that can set you up for infection.
One thing, Anderson -- go ahead.
COOPER: No, I'm sorry. Go ahead, my question was going to be how do you treat it, but go ahead.
GUPTA: You obviously treat it with the antibiotics which he's getting now. It appears that they -- they say they're working. Although, I got to tell you, it's a little early to tell whether or not they're working. His fever may have come down with some medications like Tylenol or aspirin to bring the fever down.
What I was going to say, Anderson, though, is sometimes the infection can make the Parkinson's worse. And because of the Parkinson's sort of sets you up for infection. So it's sort of a vicious cycle there a bit, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. 360, M.D., Sanjay Gupta, we appreciate the update. Thanks very much.
Larry King joins us now with the latest on what we're going to be doing, what CNN is going to be doing over the course of these next three hours. Larry, what have you got.
LARRY KING, HOST LARRY KING LIVE: Anderson, we're going to do special coverage called "Life and Death: America Speaks Out." All of our prime-time correspondents will be included, so will your phone calls, lots of guests. And I'll be anchoring it all in just about six minutes. Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: All right. Larry, thanks very much. We'll be watching.
Erica Hill from Headline News joins us with the latest at about 10 of the hour. HILL: Hi, Anderson. We start in Washington. The Justice Department now saying former Clinton national security adviser Sandy Berger will plead guilty tomorrow to a misdemeanor charge for taking classified material from the National Archives. He faces a maximum sentence of a year in prison and up to a $100,000 fine. Berger has admitted to removing copies of documents about the government's anti- terror efforts along with notes that he took on those documents. He called it an honest mistake and has denied any wrongdoing.
Former secretary of state Henry Kissinger is said to be resting comfortably at home after undergoing angioplasty earlier this week. His spokeswoman says the 81-year-old Kissinger was released today from a New York hospital. Angioplasty is a common procedure for relieving blockages to impede blood flow to the heart.
The great white shark that survived far longer than any other in captivity is now free. The Monterey Bay Aquarium in California returned the shark to the wild, mainly because it was getting too large and had begun preying on other fish. The shark was captured by a fishermen in August. It was in captivity for 198 days, which is a lot more than the previous captivity record of 16 days. And that's the latest from Headline News.
Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: All right, Erica, thanks very much.
I want to take you live to a memorial service that's going on at the Praise Cathedral Renewal Center. A memorial service organized by this man, Randall Terry, of course, well known activist. Members of the Schindler family are there. It's a memorial service for Terri Schiavo that's just beginning. There you see Bob Schindler, Terri Schiavo's father, as well as some of his spiritual advisers flanking him on either side.
Our coverage of the life and death of Terri Schiavo continues in a moment.
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FELOS: I certainly think that Mrs. Schiavo's death, which all of us have experienced one way or another has led to a family dialogue, a community dialogue and a national dialogue and perhaps a worldwide dialogue about death, dying, the dying process, the rights of the individual, the interest of society, how those are balanced and how these decisions can be made and implemented.
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COOPER: Well, today America lost someone we felt we'd gotten to know over the past several weeks. Terri Schiavo's death has prompted strong feelings and often mixed feelings about life and death. And the proper place of medicine, religion, the law and politics. Until now, there have been millions of private conversations about all of this.
Tonight, CNN is devoting the rest of this evening to a national conversation and we want you to take a part.
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