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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

World Awaits News on Pope's Condition

Aired April 01, 2005 - 19:20   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Pope John Paul II clinging to life. Millions around the world gathering in prayer.
A special edition of 360 starts now.

The life and legacy of Pope John Paul II, the frail pontiff's final journey. Tonight, we take you live to St. Peter's Square, where thousands gather in prayer for the Holy Father.

He was the most-traveled, most-watched, and one of the longest- serving popes in history. Tonight, why some call John Paul II the most influential world leader of this century. His impact on communism, Catholicism and causes around the globe.

Before he was pope, he was a simple man. Tonight, we take you beyond the headlines, the life of Karol Wojtyla, his Polish roots, his family's struggle, his rise through the Catholic Church.

And he became the first pontiff to enter a mosque and a synagogue, seeking dialogue with leaders of every religion. Tonight, the groundbreaking work this pope did to right the wrongs of the past and keep faith alive.

ANNOUNCER: Live from St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York, this is a special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360.

COOPER: And good evening from the beautiful St. Patrick's Cathedral here in New York on Fifth Avenue.

There are prayers being said here at St. Patrick's for Pope John Paul II, of course, as there are prayers being said in a great many places around the world right now.

But surely, the scene in Rome is unique. We take you there live. Tens of thousands of people gathered in the great square outside St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City, so completely filling Bernini's vast, beautiful ellipse that the worn gray bricks with which it's paved cannot be seen at all.

This is a stunning and a somber sight, something that might be called an enormous bowl of grieving humanity.

Earlier today, inside the basilica, there was a mass in the pope's honor. Here too, the faithful were present in great numbers, and here too, visibly and audibly, there was grief.

CNN's chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, is there in Rome. Christiane joins us now. What can you tell us about the state of things at this hour, Christiane?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, St. Peter's Square, where the pope would appear every week, where he would address the faithful at every major Catholic holiday, now St. Peter's Square is crowded with tens of thousands of people who have come to say good-bye. They believe that this is the end, that he is only just clinging to life, and that all the miracles that pulled him back from the brink of death in the past will not this time save him from what they believe to be the inevitable.

Earlier this evening, there was a full Rosary recited for him, and people came to stand in solidarity, to support him, to send him what they told us was love and comfort in his dying hours.

It is a long and very Christian vigil going on now, and many of the people I talked to earlier say they were going to stay till the very end.

Above them, the lights of the papal apartments, the private apartments where he lies, attended by Vatican officials and doctors and nurses, those lights still shine. But the priests, the archbishops, the cardinals who've been speaking today are preparing the faithful for his passing.

At that Rosary recital, which I told you about, a few hours ago, the vicar of the St. Peter's Basilica told the faithful that this night, he said, Christ will open the doors to Pope John Paul II.

And there is, as I say, a feeling of deep finality. Many of the people we've spoken to, some of them still in their 20s, early 30s, say this man they grew up with, this is the only pope they have known. He is a towering figure. He towered over this history for the last part of the 20th century.

He will be remembered for his role in the end of communism, and he will be remembered also for wrenching the Catholic Church back from the modernizing influence of Vatican II in the early '60s to a deeply conservative, deeply orthodox version of the Catholic Church.

And while many have appreciated that, equally many have been disaffected.

But on this night, people have come to pay their respects and to stand in a final vigil with the pope, Anderson.

COOPER: And Christiane, as we see that, those live pictures from St. Peter's, as all those people there, tens of thousands, as you've said, waiting and praying, about 2:04 a.m., are they actually receiving information when they are there? I mean, are Vatican officials coming out and speaking to the crowd, or do they just want to be there, do they just want to be near the pontiff? AMANPOUR: They just want to be here. I think people, even those who are not the faithful, necessarily, but are here for whatever reason, be it on holiday, be it on business, are really gripped by this moment. They know something incredible is happening right now.

In the passing of someone of great moral stature, great charisma, great international influence. Despite, as I say, the controversy that his teachings and his papacy has generated amongst the Catholic faith and outside the Catholic faith, people still recognize that he is a great man, and they have come here to stand with him.

There have been no formal medical bulletins for about seven hours now, the last one simply stating that his breathing was shallow, his blood pressure unstable, and his organs, his vital organs, failing.

COOPER: And we continue to monitor developments minute by minute. Christiane Amanpour, we'll check in with you shortly.

To better understand the pope's grave condition, we want to bring in 360 M.D. Sanjay Gupta right now. He joins us tonight from Atlanta.

Sanjay, what do you -- what can you tell us, what can you glean about how serious the pope's condition is right now?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Very serious, Anderson, no question about it, probably irreversible in terms of the significant organ damage.

Let me quickly you bring you up to speed. About 28 hours now we've been following this. First heard about the kidney infection, the urinary tract infection yesterday about 3:00. And then quickly, that progressed to a high fever. He got antibiotics.

Surprisingly, we heard that the condition had stabilized. That didn't last very long, though, Anderson. Just a few hours later, very serious. The septic shock basically means the infection has spread throughout his body. His (UNINTELLIGIBLE) his heart system and the blood vessels surrounding it were collapsing and still very serious, as you heard Christiane just say. All of the organs now probably affected. Irreversible, very serious now at this point, Anderson.

COOPER: Sanjay, the Vatican denies that there have been several media reports that the pope's brain function has ceased. If that is true, and that is a big if, if that is true, what does that mean? What is the significance of it?

GUPTA: Brain death is a well-recognized criterion. Again, we have not confirmed that either, Anderson. What that would mean, though, if he, in fact, was brain dead, would be that he would not be breathing on his own. If his heart was still beating, then he would actually be on a breathing machine.

Now, regardless of that, given the fact that he has such an overwhelming infection, even with the breathing machine, it's unlikely that he could last very long in this sort of condition. But, again, you know, as you mentioned, Anderson, no one has confirmed that he has a flat EEG or brain death at this time, Anderson.

COOPER: You know, so many people will point out that this is a pope who has faced great medical challenges in the past, not only the attempt on his life, but more recently, as he has struggled these last few years. And yet he has been able to bounce back. And I think there are many people, of course, holding out hope that perhaps this time, he will. Is that possible? Is there a chance of -- that he will go on for quite some time?

GUPTA: Doctors never say never, Anderson. Not to be glib, but I think it's very unlikely at this point. There is science to back that up. Someone, even a healthy person, who develops septic shock, like we've been describing with the pope, has about a maybe 20 percent chance of surviving that, if they have septic shock as significant as the pope has.

Given his advanced age, given his significant medical problems, I think it's unlikely.

Having said that, you know, even when he was very sick, we were hearing from the Vatican that he was still participating in prayers. Certainly great resilience, remarkable resilience, in fact. But as far as long term over the next couple of days, unlikely to recover, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Sanjay Gupta, appreciate it. We'll check in with you a little bit later, as warranted.

And just so you know at home, we are following this very closely, minute by minute. The situation is very fluid. It is changing. We are trying to get information as best we can. But we want to bring you everything as we know it that is factually correct. We don't want to go too far out into supposition here.

We're going to focus, though, this next hour all on the pope's condition and his life and his legacy.

He's credited, really, with the downfall of communism, helping start that downfall of communism, helping the downtrodden and personally delivering faith to millions around the world. We're going to look at the impact of Pope John Paul II.

Also, President Bush and the Vatican. The pope condemned the war in Iraq but stood firm on moral issues. Take you beyond the headlines tonight to look at the relationship between Rome and the White House.

Also tonight, in our expanded coverage, the church and Islam. The pope confronts the battle of souls by building bridges with religious groups and religious leaders all around the world.

And as we go to break, we bring you the Vatican City images from St. Peter's at 2:09 a.m.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Those are images from a mass in Rome earlier today, a mass in honor of Pope John Paul II.

Welcome back to this special edition of 360, live from St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York, where prayers are being said for the pope tonight, whose death may be imminent, according to Vatican officials. We are watching the situation very closely.

Here in the U.S., some 60 million Americans are Catholics, making it the nation's single largest denomination.

CNN's Jim Bittermann takes a look now at the pope's impact here in the U.S. and around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Around the Vatican, they like to boast that John Paul has personally made contact with more people than anyone else on Earth. Fifteen million alone, according to estimates, have attended his Wednesday audiences in Rome, not to mention the millions and millions and millions who have turned out to see him on his 102 trips abroad.

Add to that the billions who have seen him on TV, and surely the pope would qualify as the most-recognizable figure on the planet.

And how has he used that visibility? Some credit John Paul with precipitating the downfall of communism, with confronting dictators on human rights, with reaching out to redress divisions between religions. He has used his priestly pulpit to comfort the downtrodden, as he has throughout the underdeveloped world, and to confront the powerful, as he did most recently with British Prime Minister Tony Blair and U.S. President George Bush over the war in Iraq.

Even some who know the pope's failings rate him a success.

John ALLEN, CNN Vatican ANALYST: You'd be hard pressed to name any global figure who has achieved 100 percent of the things they set out to achieve. I think the measure of success really has to be sort of fidelity to one's own vision, and the capacity to make that vision real.

BITTERMANN (on camera): There are many, of course, who do not agree with the pope's vision. Even some members of his College of Cardinals say that John Paul's quarter-century has left the church with numerous internal problems, declining congregations, declining number of priests, a major sex-abuse scandal, and a congregation divided on such issues as the role of women in the church, abortion, and birth control.

(voice-over): Yet the sheer length of his reign has permitted John Paul to set large goals and achieve them, goals based on principles beyond those of a modern world often driven by profit and provocation.

The pope has used communications in a way no human being ever has, hoping to move the world in an entirely different direction. No army, just his moral megaphone, as they call it around the Vatican.

Jim Bittermann, CNN, Vatican City.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: And a powerful megaphone that is, and he has used it very well over these last many years of his reign.

There are a number of other stories we want to bring you tonight. A guilty plea for a former Clinton adviser. Let's get a quick check of the headlines from Erica Hill at Headline News. Hey, Erica.

ERICA HILL, HEADLINE NEWS: Hi, Anderson.

Yes, former National Security Adviser Samuel Berger may lose his security clearance for three years but will likely not serve any jail time. This after pleading guilty to taking classified documents from the National Archives. Berger told a federal judge today he intentionally destroyed some of the documents dealing with the government's antiterror efforts during the 2000 Millennium celebration. Now, at first, he had said he had either misplaced or unintentionally thrown them away. He will be sentenced in July.

An FBI search of the former home of convicted Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols has turned up explosive materials dating back to before the 1995 attack. The spokesman says the search uncovered various explosive components, including blasting caps. Nichols was living in the Kansas home at the time of the bombing but hasn't lived there for years. He's now serving multiple life prison sentences for his role in the attack, which killed 168 people.

An attorney who first interviewed Michael Jackson's accuser says the family did not ask him to file a lawsuit against the pop star. Larry Feldman did admit, though, that under cross-examination that the boy, who is now 15, and his younger brother, can still file civil lawsuits against Jackson until they turn 20 years old.

So you can bet it's not the last we've heard. Anderson, back to you.

COOPER: All right, Erica, we'll hear from you and again in about 30 minutes for more headlines.

This special edition, though, of 360 continues, looking at the life and the legacy of Pope John Paul II.

Coming up next, President Bush and the pope. We're going to look at their relationship, especially over the issues of war, morality, and a close election. The relationship between the Vatican and the White House. We are taking you beyond the headlines tonight.

Also ahead, controversial and contradictory, both modern and traditional, the pope bringing the church into the 21st century.

Also, we'll take you back to Rome live. Christiane Amanpour with the latest on the pope's condition, and the scene as you see it now in Vatican City at 2:16 a.m.

We're covering all the angles.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Welcome back to this special edition of 360. I'm at St. Patrick's Cathedral here in New York City where tonight, the Catholic faithful are praying for Pope John Paul II. As Vatican officials concede, these are the closing hours of the pontiff's life.

Here at St. Patrick's, Pope John Paul II visited twice. There was actually a bust inside. I was just inside the cathedral. A number of people standing around that bust. Some tears were being shed. Many prayers are being spoken, as well.

At the White House, the first family is also keeping the pope in their thoughts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: President and Mrs. Bush join people all around the world who are praying for the Holy Father. The outpouring of love and concern from so many, including millions of Americans, is a testimony to his greatness. During this time, His Holiness is in the thoughts and prayers of us all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Pope John Paul has had a long relationship with U.S. presidents. He was actually the first pope to visit the White House. That was back in 1979, where of course, Jimmy Carter was president.

The pope has met three times with President Bush. At their last encounter 10 months ago, they talked about their differences on the war in Iraq. Yet the two saw eye to eye on several other issues.

CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux takes us beyond the headlines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush last met with Pope John Paul II in Rome last June. They spoke privately for 15 minutes at the Vatican. It was their third meeting since Mr. Bush had become president and clearly significant.

The U.S. had invaded Iraq. As a result, Mr. Bush's approval ratings were sagging, both at home and abroad. Thousands of demonstrators were protesting in Rome's streets.

The pontiff, who vehemently opposed the Iraq war, called for the U.S. and Europe to put their differences over the war behind them.

The pope decried the September 11 attacks, and he also condemned the U.S.'s abuse of Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison. But Mr. Bush earned praise from the pope for his socially conservative domestic policies, including his opposition to abortion and same-sex marriage and a limit on federally funded stem cell research.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Your Holiness, I would be honored if you would accept our Medal of Freedom.

MALVEAUX: President Bush awarded the pope the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the United States' highest civilian honor.

The president's last visit with the pontiff came just five months before Election Day, sparking some criticism in Washington at the time that the trip was politically motivated as an effort to win the Catholic vote. But White House aides dismissed that accusation, saying it was an opportunity for the president to be with one of the world's greatest moral leaders.

BUSH: A devoted servant of God. His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, has championed the cause of the poor, the weak, the hungry, and the outcaSt.

MALVEAUX: Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The life and legacy of Pope John Paul II, the frail pontiff's final journey. Tonight we take you live to St. Peter's Square, where thousands gather in prayer for the Holy Father.

And he became the first pontiff to enter a mosque and a synagogue, seeking dialogue with leaders of every religion. Tonight, the groundbreaking work this pope did to right the wrongs of the past and keep faith alive. This special edition of 360, the pope and his legacy, continues in a moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: And that is a live picture at about 2:26 a.m. in Vatican City. We welcome viewers here in America, as well as viewers around the world on CNN International right now. A great many people still keeping their vigil outside St. Peter's in Vatican City -- as you can see there -- as they have really all throughout the day and probably all through this night.

We turn again to CNN senior international correspondent Christiane Amanpour, who is in Rome for the latest. Christiane, what's going on?

AMANPOUR: Well, it's very much the same in terms of what it is we know absolutely and exactly about the pope's condition. As I said, we have not had a formal medical bulletin from the Vatican for many hours now.

And the last one simply stated that his organs were failing, that his breathing was shallow and his blood pressure unstable and that he was serenely surrendering to the almighty.

And really, the people here do believe that this is the end, and thousands of people have come to Vatican Square to say good-bye to the man they call the Holy Father.

And people who have come here, in huge crowds, you would imagine there to be a loud sort of noise, as would be probably in many, many big crowds. But instead, it's silent. It's very somber, quiet, respectful, sad. People saying good-bye.

I saw many couples holding each other, holding hands, bowing their heads. Some people in tears. People brought their children. People brought old and infirm relatives in wheelchairs. There were Americans that I spoke to, Italians. There are Poles here. Pope John Paul is Polish.

And many people from many parts of the world who are not just here because they're the Catholic faithful, but others who are here on business or on holiday or for other reasons and realize that this is something momentous have come here to St. Peter's Square.

COOPER: Christiane, it is 2:30 in the morning there. If -- if something happens to the pope in these next few hours, will there be announcement, or is that something that would be delayed until tomorrow morning?

AMANPOUR: You know, I expect that there would be announcement, but I can't be sure about that. We don't know. We haven't been told when they will give us the final bulletin, if you like.

There is quite a procedure that -- that takes place after the pope dies. First of all, his name is called by one of the cardinals three times. The seals are broken. His apartment is sealed. And then it's announced to the public.

So, you know, this is a very traditional ritual. It's been in place for hundreds of years. And it's obviously been seriously under consideration and planning for this pope, who's been so ill for so long. And of course, over the last three days, whose health has deteriorated so rapidly.

COOPER: And so many people just want to be there, just want to be near the pontiff in these last few difficult hours. Christiane Amanpour, thank you very much for that. We'll talk with you a little bit later on.

The pope dedicated himself to the task of bringing people together, and certainly, he did see that as his great mission. Still and all, he had precisely the opposite effect, taking positions that many other people strongly disagreed with. Heidi Collins now looks at the many sides of Pope John Paul II.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some have called Pope John Paul II a controversial figure. But profoundly contradictory may be a better description.

Pope John Paul II, LEADER OF Catholic Church: Social organization exists only for the service of man and for the protection of his dignity, and that it cannot claim to serve the common good when human rights are not safeguarded.

COLLINS: Politically, the pope has been very much a modern man, a man famously in favor of freedom. The pontiff, from once communist Poland, who heroically stood against communism all over the world.

WILTON WYNN, AUTHOR, "KEEPER OF THE KEYS": He thought once the yoke was removed of communism that there would be a great spiritual revival which would spill over into the west. That was his dream. But that certainly has not worked.

COLLINS: On the other hand, where doctrine was concerned, he has not been modern at all. An unwavering traditionalist, a rejecter of reform, a pope who held the line.

John ALLEN, NATIONAL Catholic REPORTER: Particularly the sort of issues of sexual morality that tend to be very important in the developed west, whether it's abortion or birth control or gay rights, the role of women, where the pope's vision has not won a broad popular following.

COLLINS: Pope John Paul II held the line on the place of women in the church, rejecting appeals, heard with particular fervor in the U.S., for the ordination of women.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your God is king.

PROF. THOMAS GROOME, BOSTON COLLEGE: It's matter of justice. It's a matter of inclusion. And we can use all the rhetoric we like to try to kid ourselves that women are equal in this church, but they'll never be equal until they can be ordained.

COLLINS: He held the line on divorce. The church continues to be unalterably against it. He held the line on abortion, legalized extermination, he once called it. And on birth control.

Pope John Paul II: Only a higher moral vision can motivate the choice for life.

COLLINS: He held the line on the assimilation of openly gay and lesbian men and women into the clergy and against same-sex marriage. In his recent book, "Memory and Identity," he wrote that homosexuality was part of an ideology of evil, which insidiously threatens society.

WYNN: When he came to power, when he was elected, he realized that one thing that he had to do was to restore clarity to Catholic teaching. And he says OK, maybe they won't obey, maybe they don't accept, but at least they'll know what the church stands for.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He seems to have adopted the position of the philosophers and theologians from about the 13th Century.

COLLINS: In the end, Pope John Paul II controversial, a man of opposites, an anti communist freedom fighter and an unbending defender of the faith. A man of the future, and of the paSt.

Heidi Collins, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Well, it's some of those traditional values that has often brought this pope at odds with some Catholics here in the United States.

Still, John Paul had a very special relationship with the people of this country. He visited the United States during the first year of his papacy and continued to return, making seven trips here in all. The only country that got more visits was his home, Poland.

Joining me to talk about this pope's relationship with American Catholics and with Catholics around the world is the Rev. Joseph Koterski, chair of the department of philosophy at Fordham University. He's an avid student of Pope John Paul II.

We appreciate you being with us.

REV. JOSEPH KOTERSKI, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY: Delighted to be here tonight.

COOPER: This pope's relationship with the United States, I mean, visiting here seven times, what was the relationship like and why -- why did he come here so often?

KOTERSKI: I think he wanted to come to what he called the capitol of the world.

COOPER: That's what he called the United States.

KOTERSKI: He called the United -- New York especially, and he did so mindful that so many important trends are set here, so many important businesses and economic concerns and thoughts are thought here.

And he wanted to come to the United Nations. And so his two visits to the United Nations, trying to plead for peace and plead for the message of Christ before all the nations of the world, extremely important.

COOPER: His legacy, I mean, there are so many different facets to it, obviously. So much has been said about his fight against communism, that the influence he had on the Solidarity movement in Poland. What -- as you look at his legacy, what do you take away? KOTERSKI: There's an intellectual legacy as well as a legacy on the stage of world history. And there's something important for the church.

COOPER: How do you mean an intellectual legacy?

KOTERSKI: He was a great writer and a philosopher. I'd be willing to bet you a beer if we meet 100 years from now...

COOPER: Are you allowed to bet me a beer?

KOTERSKI: I'm allowed to bet you a beer. And if we could do that, 100 years from now, one of the books they're still going to be talking about is his encyclical, "Veritatis Splendor," the splendor of the truth.

In that, not only does he do wonderful things with the scriptures, but he in the second chapter undertakes a criticism of four of the really important ideas that are afloat in ethics today. And he's got his own take on it.

I like to think about it sort of as a good cholesterol, bad cholesterol approach. He identifies what's wrong with the way these concepts are used, and then he proposes his own way of using them better.

COOPER: And in his suffering, I mean, his suffering was very public and that fits into his writings about suffering.

KOTERSKI: He wrote about that too. His 1987 letter on the Christian meaning of human suffering is a sleeper. And when it's discovered, I think it will be both personally edifying as well as intellectually challenging for a whole generation of intellectuals.

COOPER: You know, when you look at polls of how American Catholics viewed this pope, more than 60 percent say they like what he was doing. About one third, though, said that they might have some problems.

I actually think we have a poll we can put up. About one third said he was -- he was too conservative. And two percent said -- 33 percent too conservative, two percent too liberal, 62 percent about right.

Did -- was his job here -- did he see part of his role as clarifying the teachings of the church here?

KOTERSKI: Definitely. And constantly taking us back to the fact that, conservative or liberal, we all have to conform our minds and understandings to the heart of Christ. If we're more conservative than Christ is, then we better get with Christ. If we're more liberal than Christ is, we had better get on his page.

And I think what he called us back to again and again as Catholics was to try to understand the mind of our lord.

COOPER: It's certainly a sad night for people around the world. But also a night to celebrate the life of this man.

KOTERSKI: I find myself very thankful for the 26 years of his leadership.

COOPER: So for you, it's not so much -- I mean, there's sadness, but there's also joy.

KOTERSKI: There is, but there's sadness, but there's also just much gratitude.

COOPER: All right. Father, thank you very much for being with us. Appreciate it.

KOTERSKI: Delightful. Delightful.

COOPER: Nice to meet you.

Coming up next on this special edition of 360, the pope, and Islam and Judaism, and the world's religions. How he reached out to so many other faiths.

Also a little later tonight, a look at what will happen in these next few hours and in these days to come when the pope finishes his journey. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Some of the sights and the sounds at the Vatican from earlier today. A scene we have been watching all throughout this day and continue to watch very closely as we monitor these last difficult hours as the pope's journey comes to an end.

Earlier today, worshippers said the Rosary. They prayed for Pope John Paul II. And they are doing that right now here at St. Peter -- at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City and doing that at the Vatican at St. Peter's, of course.

Pope John Paul will be remembered in so many different ways, in part for doing things that, really, no other pope had done before. Nearly four years ago, he tried to bridge the gap between Christians and Muslims by coming the first pontiff to enter a mosque. He was also the first pontiff to enter a synagogue.

But after John Paul departs, the next pope might encounter even more challenges as he deals with a growing Muslim faith.

CNN senior international correspondent Walter Rodgers takes us beyond the headlines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): This mosque in the not too distant shadow of the Vatican speaks to a serious problem the new pope will face. Built with Saudi oil money on the outskirts of Rome, it is seen by some in the Catholic Church as another example of Islamic encroachment in historically Christian Europe.

John ALLEN, Vatican ANALYST: In England today -- today, there are more Muslims that go to mosque on Friday, than there are Anglicans, practicing Anglicans that go to church on Sunday. Certainly, there are many people in senior -- in the senior level of the Catholic Church and other Christian denominations that are worried that within a generation Europe may well be an outpost of the Islamic world as opposed to being the cradle of Christian civilization.

RODGERS: In Europe, Catholic and Protestant churches are emptying as the older generations die out. And in Africa, the Christian churches face challenges.

REV. BERNARDO CERVELLERA, CHURCH ANALYST: The battle for souls is in all the -- let us say in Central Africa and, in fact, Saudi Arabia is financing strongly and very, very, very deeply the preaching of Islam and the building of mosques in Central Africa.

RODGERS: Before the rise of Islam, there were many Christian churches. In North Africa, home of St. Augustine, in Arabia, Turkey and the near east. Through the centuries, Islam swept those churches away.

ALLEN: The idea of waking up one morning and finding that the Holy Land is empty of Christians, is a really devastating concept.

RODGERS: Pope John Paul II avoided confrontation with resurgent Islam. He opted for accommodation, seeing Muslims as allies in his struggle against abortion and birth control. He prayed with Muslims at the Ummayad Mosque in Damascus. He opposed the most recent war in Iraq, in part, hoping his opposition would protect shrinking Christian minorities in the Arab world. His outlook found resonance among some Arab Catholics who saw it as a way to build bridges with Muslims.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What they saw from the West, they saw invasions. They saw war. They saw army. They saw destruction. So I think Islam, it has to be understood. It has to be discussed. It has -- we have to have a dialogue with them and to understand each other.

RODGERS: But dialogue with which Islam?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With al Qaeda, it's not possible to talk about even religion. al Qaeda is an anti-western movement. And because it is anti-western, it is also anti-Christian.

RODGERS: One of the difficulties facing the new pope will be the absence of a Muslim equivalent to talk to. And many in the Roman Catholic Church now feel there is no level playing field in the battle for souls with Islam. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When their citizens show up in the west, there is always a demand for legal recognition, for fair play, for the ability to build centers of worship. But the same thing certainly doesn't go on when Christians immigrate into the Arab world.

RODGERS: Many believe the new pope will face increased pressure from within the church to take a tougher line defending the faith, even as Christianity's roots continue to shrink in Europe.

Walter Rodgers, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: With our special expanded coverage of the life and the legacy of Pope John Paul II continues. But we're tracking a number of other stories that are happening right now. Want to bring you up to date. Funeral plans being made for Terri Schiavo. For that and other stories, we go to Erica Hill from "HEADLINE NEWS."

HILL: Hi, again Anderson.

This, of course, the other big story of the week. Michael Schiavo and his inlaws will mourn the death of Terri Schiavo separately. Schiavo plans to cremate his wife's remains and bury the ashes in Pennsylvania where she grew up. Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, want her buried in Florida, but don't plan a court fight over their daughters remains. They've scheduled a funeral mass for Tuesday. The medical examiner completed the autopsy of Terri Schiavo today. Those results, however, may not be released for several weeks.

You'll likely have to dig even deeper to pay for your next fill- up. Yes, you're hearing it again. Gas prices on the rise. Analysts now saying they'll probably average more than $2.25 a gallon within just the next few weeks. Well, oil prices hit a record high today, topping $57 a barrel. A report from investment bank Goldman Sachs says oil prices could go as high as $105 a barrel. Blow up the tires on your bike.

Conservative commentator Pat Buchanan was forced to cut short an appearance last night when a demonstrator yelled stop the bigotry and, check that video out, and threw salad dressing on him. Buchanan thanked the crowd at Western Michigan University for coming and then said, he had to leave to go wash his hair.

The demonstrator was arrested for disturbing the peace. As they say, though, oil is actually good for your hair, Anderson, so maybe it worked out well in the end.

COOPER: All right. Erica Hill, thanks very much for the update. We'll see you again in about 30 minutes.

Coming up next on this special edition of 360, the church without a pope. What could happen when it doesn't have a single person in charge?

Take a look at that.

Also later tonight, the pope as he was when he first became the pontiff. A look back, as we leave you with a live picture of Vatican City at 2:45 a.m. We'll return in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Welcome back to this special edition of 360. We are coming to you live from St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City. We want to welcome our viewers from around the world, watching us on CNN and CNN International.

Tonight, the pope is clinging to life inside his Vatican apartment. And leaders of the church believe his passing is imminent. If it does happen soon, more than 1 billion Catholics worldwide will be left without a single person in charge, at least temporarily.

CNN's Jim Bittermann reports on what exactly that means for the church.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Much of what the Catholic Church does happens far from Pope John Paul's Vatican office. Most all of it takes place without the slightest sign of papal intervention. An army of more than 405,000 priests and 4,700 bishops knows what must be done to carry on the work of the pope, whether or not he's there or too urge them on or restrain them. And so unlike a corporation or a government, the Catholic Church does not immediately spin out of control if the chair of St. Peter is empty.

ULRICH ESSER, GREGORIAN UNIVERSITY SEMINARIAN: The church is more than 2,000 years old. So two weeks without the Holy Father, that can bother nothing.

BITTERMANN: With or without the pope, the Catholic universities go on training up young theologians.

Even at the top of the hierarchy and the dicasteries, the Vatican equivalent of government ministries, the bureaucratic work grinds on. But the decline in John Paul's health has meant more and more power going to those at the top, three men in particular. Italian born Angelo Sodano, is essentially the Vatican's prime minister. with the pope no longer able to carry out even ceremonial duties, Cardinal Sodano has become the point man, especially in the area of foreign affairs.

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, a German, is in charge of the congregation of the doctrine of the faith, the church institution most responsible for enforcing church teachings. His writings have been more doctrinaire than the pope.

And with a lower rank, but not less power, Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz, the pope's personal secretary for 40 years. He has always been at John Paul's side. And now that that the pope is been ailing, he is the go to person for the pope's signature and thought to be the one who has final say on the pope's medical treatment.

But the three are just first among equals. Other cardinals have their own individual powers. Only John Paul can give them orders.

(on camera): Over the years, the pope has delegated more and more responsibility to his top churchmen. And sometimes, there are disputes among them. But without the pope in place, there is no one to resolve them.

(voice-over): And some say therein lies the real problem with an extended papal illness.

REV. KEITH PECKLERS, GREGORIAN UNIVERSITY: What happens down the road if we have a pope, for example, who can no longer speak, who can no longer be seen in public, for example. And then there we're going to have to face some serious questions.

BITTERMANN: Not the least among them, how to maintain the coherence and cohesion of a church without a single person in charge. Jim Bittermann, Vatican City.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, the reports today from the Vatican certainly indicate that the pope is not in a position to make any of those key decisions.

To discuss what happens in these next days and hours and weeks, we turn to CNN Vatican analyst, Delia Gallagher, who joins us live now in Rome. Delia, thanks for being with us tonight.

If the pope lingers in his current state, what happens in terms of the interim leadership of the church?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN Vatican ANALYST: Anderson, you know, I put that question to a cardinal not so long ago. And his answer, I think, was indicative of what many cardinals say here, which is we don't believe providence will let that happen.

And I think that that is something that the cardinals say, because they do believe it, but also because there is no system in place. There is no vice pope, as it were, who can take over the pope's duties if he is incapacitated. It's one of the big open questions in canon law of what would happen.

The pope has authority on several things, such as creating bishops, creating saints, signing off on issues of doctrine. All of those require the pope's signature, the pope's approval. So all of those items would have to be stopped in the interim.

But there are other day-to-day running of the Vatican and the curial offices which continue as normal -- Anderson.

COOPER: Well, Delia, I know with the pope alive, Vatican officials do not like to talk about a possible successor. Is anything actually being done about choosing a successor at this point? Or is that simply just you know, I mean, everyone knows the tradition of how it's done and they're just waiting to see what happens next?

GALLAGHER: Well, yes, of course. I think this has its stages. And we're still in the first stage. And the cardinals are not going to jump the gun, certainly, publicly and start talking about choosing a successor. Although, of course, they have been alerted as to the pope's condition and they are aware they'll bear that responsibility in some time to come. So privately, we can assume that they are thinking about, if not, indeed, discussing it amongst themselves.

It's interesting that just last week, the Polish cardinal, Cardinal Glemp, who is from the pope's homeland, gave a slight indiscretion to an Argentinean paper, speaking about the next papacy and thinking that it might go back to an Italian. But that is an unusual indiscretion in these times, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Delia Gallagher, thank you very much for our continuing coverage.

To point out, Pope John Paul II was the first non-Italian pope in hundreds of years. In the 1500s, there was a non-Italian pope. But Delia Gallagher saying one at least cardinal thought it might go back to being an Italian pope. We, of course, shall see.

CNN's primetime coverage of the pope continues with PaulA ZAHN NOW. Let's check in with Paula for a preview.

Paula.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, so much Anderson. Appreciate it.

Of course, we too will be following the pope's condition with live reports from Vatican City. We'll also be talking with some of the pope's followers in Los Angeles, Chicago and New York City tonight.

And we will bring you the story of Pope John Paul II's best friend from childhood, what is surprising about this, this man is Jewish. This relationship flourished between two World Wars. And we'll talk about how their continuing friendship helped change the world.

Anderson, a lot of people credit this one man with opening the pope's eyes to the importance of bridging the gaps between Catholics and Jews.

COOPER: A fascinating story. Paula Zahn, we'll be watching. Thanks very much.

Coming up next, though, on this special edition of 360, as Catholics around the world pray for the pope, we look back remembering when he first came to the Vatican.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: And a live picture of the Vatican. Tonight, taking a last look to the Nth Degree.

Those who have known the pope only as a frail old man ought to be reminded of something. It's this. Look at this. Look at him. He cut quite a figure when he first became pontiff 26-years-ago in 1978.

Nevermind that he was the first non-Italian pope in 455 years, the important thing is that he was the youngest vicar of Christ any person then living had ever seen. A strapping, vigorous man of 58 whose stance and stride clearly showed the skier he had been in his native Poland. The skier, and hiker, and mountain climber, the sportsman.

That was the thing about him, then and for decades, his strength and tirelessness. How else could he have traveled to 120 countries, more than any other pope ever had. How else could he have canonized more saints, 482, than any other pope ever had, or proclaimed 1,338 people as blessed, a step toward sainthood, or created 232 cardinals.

Time and illness took their toll, yes, but do not think this man, do not think that Karol Joseph Wojtyla once archbishop of Krakau, then Pope John Paul II was always a silent pale figure seated on the papal balcony, holding up a thin hand. For a long time, a long time, he walked very tall indeed.

Our primetime coverage continues now with "PaulA ZAHN NOW."

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 1, 2005 - 19:20   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Pope John Paul II clinging to life. Millions around the world gathering in prayer.
A special edition of 360 starts now.

The life and legacy of Pope John Paul II, the frail pontiff's final journey. Tonight, we take you live to St. Peter's Square, where thousands gather in prayer for the Holy Father.

He was the most-traveled, most-watched, and one of the longest- serving popes in history. Tonight, why some call John Paul II the most influential world leader of this century. His impact on communism, Catholicism and causes around the globe.

Before he was pope, he was a simple man. Tonight, we take you beyond the headlines, the life of Karol Wojtyla, his Polish roots, his family's struggle, his rise through the Catholic Church.

And he became the first pontiff to enter a mosque and a synagogue, seeking dialogue with leaders of every religion. Tonight, the groundbreaking work this pope did to right the wrongs of the past and keep faith alive.

ANNOUNCER: Live from St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York, this is a special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360.

COOPER: And good evening from the beautiful St. Patrick's Cathedral here in New York on Fifth Avenue.

There are prayers being said here at St. Patrick's for Pope John Paul II, of course, as there are prayers being said in a great many places around the world right now.

But surely, the scene in Rome is unique. We take you there live. Tens of thousands of people gathered in the great square outside St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City, so completely filling Bernini's vast, beautiful ellipse that the worn gray bricks with which it's paved cannot be seen at all.

This is a stunning and a somber sight, something that might be called an enormous bowl of grieving humanity.

Earlier today, inside the basilica, there was a mass in the pope's honor. Here too, the faithful were present in great numbers, and here too, visibly and audibly, there was grief.

CNN's chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, is there in Rome. Christiane joins us now. What can you tell us about the state of things at this hour, Christiane?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, St. Peter's Square, where the pope would appear every week, where he would address the faithful at every major Catholic holiday, now St. Peter's Square is crowded with tens of thousands of people who have come to say good-bye. They believe that this is the end, that he is only just clinging to life, and that all the miracles that pulled him back from the brink of death in the past will not this time save him from what they believe to be the inevitable.

Earlier this evening, there was a full Rosary recited for him, and people came to stand in solidarity, to support him, to send him what they told us was love and comfort in his dying hours.

It is a long and very Christian vigil going on now, and many of the people I talked to earlier say they were going to stay till the very end.

Above them, the lights of the papal apartments, the private apartments where he lies, attended by Vatican officials and doctors and nurses, those lights still shine. But the priests, the archbishops, the cardinals who've been speaking today are preparing the faithful for his passing.

At that Rosary recital, which I told you about, a few hours ago, the vicar of the St. Peter's Basilica told the faithful that this night, he said, Christ will open the doors to Pope John Paul II.

And there is, as I say, a feeling of deep finality. Many of the people we've spoken to, some of them still in their 20s, early 30s, say this man they grew up with, this is the only pope they have known. He is a towering figure. He towered over this history for the last part of the 20th century.

He will be remembered for his role in the end of communism, and he will be remembered also for wrenching the Catholic Church back from the modernizing influence of Vatican II in the early '60s to a deeply conservative, deeply orthodox version of the Catholic Church.

And while many have appreciated that, equally many have been disaffected.

But on this night, people have come to pay their respects and to stand in a final vigil with the pope, Anderson.

COOPER: And Christiane, as we see that, those live pictures from St. Peter's, as all those people there, tens of thousands, as you've said, waiting and praying, about 2:04 a.m., are they actually receiving information when they are there? I mean, are Vatican officials coming out and speaking to the crowd, or do they just want to be there, do they just want to be near the pontiff? AMANPOUR: They just want to be here. I think people, even those who are not the faithful, necessarily, but are here for whatever reason, be it on holiday, be it on business, are really gripped by this moment. They know something incredible is happening right now.

In the passing of someone of great moral stature, great charisma, great international influence. Despite, as I say, the controversy that his teachings and his papacy has generated amongst the Catholic faith and outside the Catholic faith, people still recognize that he is a great man, and they have come here to stand with him.

There have been no formal medical bulletins for about seven hours now, the last one simply stating that his breathing was shallow, his blood pressure unstable, and his organs, his vital organs, failing.

COOPER: And we continue to monitor developments minute by minute. Christiane Amanpour, we'll check in with you shortly.

To better understand the pope's grave condition, we want to bring in 360 M.D. Sanjay Gupta right now. He joins us tonight from Atlanta.

Sanjay, what do you -- what can you tell us, what can you glean about how serious the pope's condition is right now?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Very serious, Anderson, no question about it, probably irreversible in terms of the significant organ damage.

Let me quickly you bring you up to speed. About 28 hours now we've been following this. First heard about the kidney infection, the urinary tract infection yesterday about 3:00. And then quickly, that progressed to a high fever. He got antibiotics.

Surprisingly, we heard that the condition had stabilized. That didn't last very long, though, Anderson. Just a few hours later, very serious. The septic shock basically means the infection has spread throughout his body. His (UNINTELLIGIBLE) his heart system and the blood vessels surrounding it were collapsing and still very serious, as you heard Christiane just say. All of the organs now probably affected. Irreversible, very serious now at this point, Anderson.

COOPER: Sanjay, the Vatican denies that there have been several media reports that the pope's brain function has ceased. If that is true, and that is a big if, if that is true, what does that mean? What is the significance of it?

GUPTA: Brain death is a well-recognized criterion. Again, we have not confirmed that either, Anderson. What that would mean, though, if he, in fact, was brain dead, would be that he would not be breathing on his own. If his heart was still beating, then he would actually be on a breathing machine.

Now, regardless of that, given the fact that he has such an overwhelming infection, even with the breathing machine, it's unlikely that he could last very long in this sort of condition. But, again, you know, as you mentioned, Anderson, no one has confirmed that he has a flat EEG or brain death at this time, Anderson.

COOPER: You know, so many people will point out that this is a pope who has faced great medical challenges in the past, not only the attempt on his life, but more recently, as he has struggled these last few years. And yet he has been able to bounce back. And I think there are many people, of course, holding out hope that perhaps this time, he will. Is that possible? Is there a chance of -- that he will go on for quite some time?

GUPTA: Doctors never say never, Anderson. Not to be glib, but I think it's very unlikely at this point. There is science to back that up. Someone, even a healthy person, who develops septic shock, like we've been describing with the pope, has about a maybe 20 percent chance of surviving that, if they have septic shock as significant as the pope has.

Given his advanced age, given his significant medical problems, I think it's unlikely.

Having said that, you know, even when he was very sick, we were hearing from the Vatican that he was still participating in prayers. Certainly great resilience, remarkable resilience, in fact. But as far as long term over the next couple of days, unlikely to recover, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Sanjay Gupta, appreciate it. We'll check in with you a little bit later, as warranted.

And just so you know at home, we are following this very closely, minute by minute. The situation is very fluid. It is changing. We are trying to get information as best we can. But we want to bring you everything as we know it that is factually correct. We don't want to go too far out into supposition here.

We're going to focus, though, this next hour all on the pope's condition and his life and his legacy.

He's credited, really, with the downfall of communism, helping start that downfall of communism, helping the downtrodden and personally delivering faith to millions around the world. We're going to look at the impact of Pope John Paul II.

Also, President Bush and the Vatican. The pope condemned the war in Iraq but stood firm on moral issues. Take you beyond the headlines tonight to look at the relationship between Rome and the White House.

Also tonight, in our expanded coverage, the church and Islam. The pope confronts the battle of souls by building bridges with religious groups and religious leaders all around the world.

And as we go to break, we bring you the Vatican City images from St. Peter's at 2:09 a.m.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Those are images from a mass in Rome earlier today, a mass in honor of Pope John Paul II.

Welcome back to this special edition of 360, live from St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York, where prayers are being said for the pope tonight, whose death may be imminent, according to Vatican officials. We are watching the situation very closely.

Here in the U.S., some 60 million Americans are Catholics, making it the nation's single largest denomination.

CNN's Jim Bittermann takes a look now at the pope's impact here in the U.S. and around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Around the Vatican, they like to boast that John Paul has personally made contact with more people than anyone else on Earth. Fifteen million alone, according to estimates, have attended his Wednesday audiences in Rome, not to mention the millions and millions and millions who have turned out to see him on his 102 trips abroad.

Add to that the billions who have seen him on TV, and surely the pope would qualify as the most-recognizable figure on the planet.

And how has he used that visibility? Some credit John Paul with precipitating the downfall of communism, with confronting dictators on human rights, with reaching out to redress divisions between religions. He has used his priestly pulpit to comfort the downtrodden, as he has throughout the underdeveloped world, and to confront the powerful, as he did most recently with British Prime Minister Tony Blair and U.S. President George Bush over the war in Iraq.

Even some who know the pope's failings rate him a success.

John ALLEN, CNN Vatican ANALYST: You'd be hard pressed to name any global figure who has achieved 100 percent of the things they set out to achieve. I think the measure of success really has to be sort of fidelity to one's own vision, and the capacity to make that vision real.

BITTERMANN (on camera): There are many, of course, who do not agree with the pope's vision. Even some members of his College of Cardinals say that John Paul's quarter-century has left the church with numerous internal problems, declining congregations, declining number of priests, a major sex-abuse scandal, and a congregation divided on such issues as the role of women in the church, abortion, and birth control.

(voice-over): Yet the sheer length of his reign has permitted John Paul to set large goals and achieve them, goals based on principles beyond those of a modern world often driven by profit and provocation.

The pope has used communications in a way no human being ever has, hoping to move the world in an entirely different direction. No army, just his moral megaphone, as they call it around the Vatican.

Jim Bittermann, CNN, Vatican City.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: And a powerful megaphone that is, and he has used it very well over these last many years of his reign.

There are a number of other stories we want to bring you tonight. A guilty plea for a former Clinton adviser. Let's get a quick check of the headlines from Erica Hill at Headline News. Hey, Erica.

ERICA HILL, HEADLINE NEWS: Hi, Anderson.

Yes, former National Security Adviser Samuel Berger may lose his security clearance for three years but will likely not serve any jail time. This after pleading guilty to taking classified documents from the National Archives. Berger told a federal judge today he intentionally destroyed some of the documents dealing with the government's antiterror efforts during the 2000 Millennium celebration. Now, at first, he had said he had either misplaced or unintentionally thrown them away. He will be sentenced in July.

An FBI search of the former home of convicted Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols has turned up explosive materials dating back to before the 1995 attack. The spokesman says the search uncovered various explosive components, including blasting caps. Nichols was living in the Kansas home at the time of the bombing but hasn't lived there for years. He's now serving multiple life prison sentences for his role in the attack, which killed 168 people.

An attorney who first interviewed Michael Jackson's accuser says the family did not ask him to file a lawsuit against the pop star. Larry Feldman did admit, though, that under cross-examination that the boy, who is now 15, and his younger brother, can still file civil lawsuits against Jackson until they turn 20 years old.

So you can bet it's not the last we've heard. Anderson, back to you.

COOPER: All right, Erica, we'll hear from you and again in about 30 minutes for more headlines.

This special edition, though, of 360 continues, looking at the life and the legacy of Pope John Paul II.

Coming up next, President Bush and the pope. We're going to look at their relationship, especially over the issues of war, morality, and a close election. The relationship between the Vatican and the White House. We are taking you beyond the headlines tonight.

Also ahead, controversial and contradictory, both modern and traditional, the pope bringing the church into the 21st century.

Also, we'll take you back to Rome live. Christiane Amanpour with the latest on the pope's condition, and the scene as you see it now in Vatican City at 2:16 a.m.

We're covering all the angles.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Welcome back to this special edition of 360. I'm at St. Patrick's Cathedral here in New York City where tonight, the Catholic faithful are praying for Pope John Paul II. As Vatican officials concede, these are the closing hours of the pontiff's life.

Here at St. Patrick's, Pope John Paul II visited twice. There was actually a bust inside. I was just inside the cathedral. A number of people standing around that bust. Some tears were being shed. Many prayers are being spoken, as well.

At the White House, the first family is also keeping the pope in their thoughts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: President and Mrs. Bush join people all around the world who are praying for the Holy Father. The outpouring of love and concern from so many, including millions of Americans, is a testimony to his greatness. During this time, His Holiness is in the thoughts and prayers of us all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Pope John Paul has had a long relationship with U.S. presidents. He was actually the first pope to visit the White House. That was back in 1979, where of course, Jimmy Carter was president.

The pope has met three times with President Bush. At their last encounter 10 months ago, they talked about their differences on the war in Iraq. Yet the two saw eye to eye on several other issues.

CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux takes us beyond the headlines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush last met with Pope John Paul II in Rome last June. They spoke privately for 15 minutes at the Vatican. It was their third meeting since Mr. Bush had become president and clearly significant.

The U.S. had invaded Iraq. As a result, Mr. Bush's approval ratings were sagging, both at home and abroad. Thousands of demonstrators were protesting in Rome's streets.

The pontiff, who vehemently opposed the Iraq war, called for the U.S. and Europe to put their differences over the war behind them.

The pope decried the September 11 attacks, and he also condemned the U.S.'s abuse of Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison. But Mr. Bush earned praise from the pope for his socially conservative domestic policies, including his opposition to abortion and same-sex marriage and a limit on federally funded stem cell research.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Your Holiness, I would be honored if you would accept our Medal of Freedom.

MALVEAUX: President Bush awarded the pope the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the United States' highest civilian honor.

The president's last visit with the pontiff came just five months before Election Day, sparking some criticism in Washington at the time that the trip was politically motivated as an effort to win the Catholic vote. But White House aides dismissed that accusation, saying it was an opportunity for the president to be with one of the world's greatest moral leaders.

BUSH: A devoted servant of God. His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, has championed the cause of the poor, the weak, the hungry, and the outcaSt.

MALVEAUX: Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The life and legacy of Pope John Paul II, the frail pontiff's final journey. Tonight we take you live to St. Peter's Square, where thousands gather in prayer for the Holy Father.

And he became the first pontiff to enter a mosque and a synagogue, seeking dialogue with leaders of every religion. Tonight, the groundbreaking work this pope did to right the wrongs of the past and keep faith alive. This special edition of 360, the pope and his legacy, continues in a moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: And that is a live picture at about 2:26 a.m. in Vatican City. We welcome viewers here in America, as well as viewers around the world on CNN International right now. A great many people still keeping their vigil outside St. Peter's in Vatican City -- as you can see there -- as they have really all throughout the day and probably all through this night.

We turn again to CNN senior international correspondent Christiane Amanpour, who is in Rome for the latest. Christiane, what's going on?

AMANPOUR: Well, it's very much the same in terms of what it is we know absolutely and exactly about the pope's condition. As I said, we have not had a formal medical bulletin from the Vatican for many hours now.

And the last one simply stated that his organs were failing, that his breathing was shallow and his blood pressure unstable and that he was serenely surrendering to the almighty.

And really, the people here do believe that this is the end, and thousands of people have come to Vatican Square to say good-bye to the man they call the Holy Father.

And people who have come here, in huge crowds, you would imagine there to be a loud sort of noise, as would be probably in many, many big crowds. But instead, it's silent. It's very somber, quiet, respectful, sad. People saying good-bye.

I saw many couples holding each other, holding hands, bowing their heads. Some people in tears. People brought their children. People brought old and infirm relatives in wheelchairs. There were Americans that I spoke to, Italians. There are Poles here. Pope John Paul is Polish.

And many people from many parts of the world who are not just here because they're the Catholic faithful, but others who are here on business or on holiday or for other reasons and realize that this is something momentous have come here to St. Peter's Square.

COOPER: Christiane, it is 2:30 in the morning there. If -- if something happens to the pope in these next few hours, will there be announcement, or is that something that would be delayed until tomorrow morning?

AMANPOUR: You know, I expect that there would be announcement, but I can't be sure about that. We don't know. We haven't been told when they will give us the final bulletin, if you like.

There is quite a procedure that -- that takes place after the pope dies. First of all, his name is called by one of the cardinals three times. The seals are broken. His apartment is sealed. And then it's announced to the public.

So, you know, this is a very traditional ritual. It's been in place for hundreds of years. And it's obviously been seriously under consideration and planning for this pope, who's been so ill for so long. And of course, over the last three days, whose health has deteriorated so rapidly.

COOPER: And so many people just want to be there, just want to be near the pontiff in these last few difficult hours. Christiane Amanpour, thank you very much for that. We'll talk with you a little bit later on.

The pope dedicated himself to the task of bringing people together, and certainly, he did see that as his great mission. Still and all, he had precisely the opposite effect, taking positions that many other people strongly disagreed with. Heidi Collins now looks at the many sides of Pope John Paul II.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some have called Pope John Paul II a controversial figure. But profoundly contradictory may be a better description.

Pope John Paul II, LEADER OF Catholic Church: Social organization exists only for the service of man and for the protection of his dignity, and that it cannot claim to serve the common good when human rights are not safeguarded.

COLLINS: Politically, the pope has been very much a modern man, a man famously in favor of freedom. The pontiff, from once communist Poland, who heroically stood against communism all over the world.

WILTON WYNN, AUTHOR, "KEEPER OF THE KEYS": He thought once the yoke was removed of communism that there would be a great spiritual revival which would spill over into the west. That was his dream. But that certainly has not worked.

COLLINS: On the other hand, where doctrine was concerned, he has not been modern at all. An unwavering traditionalist, a rejecter of reform, a pope who held the line.

John ALLEN, NATIONAL Catholic REPORTER: Particularly the sort of issues of sexual morality that tend to be very important in the developed west, whether it's abortion or birth control or gay rights, the role of women, where the pope's vision has not won a broad popular following.

COLLINS: Pope John Paul II held the line on the place of women in the church, rejecting appeals, heard with particular fervor in the U.S., for the ordination of women.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your God is king.

PROF. THOMAS GROOME, BOSTON COLLEGE: It's matter of justice. It's a matter of inclusion. And we can use all the rhetoric we like to try to kid ourselves that women are equal in this church, but they'll never be equal until they can be ordained.

COLLINS: He held the line on divorce. The church continues to be unalterably against it. He held the line on abortion, legalized extermination, he once called it. And on birth control.

Pope John Paul II: Only a higher moral vision can motivate the choice for life.

COLLINS: He held the line on the assimilation of openly gay and lesbian men and women into the clergy and against same-sex marriage. In his recent book, "Memory and Identity," he wrote that homosexuality was part of an ideology of evil, which insidiously threatens society.

WYNN: When he came to power, when he was elected, he realized that one thing that he had to do was to restore clarity to Catholic teaching. And he says OK, maybe they won't obey, maybe they don't accept, but at least they'll know what the church stands for.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He seems to have adopted the position of the philosophers and theologians from about the 13th Century.

COLLINS: In the end, Pope John Paul II controversial, a man of opposites, an anti communist freedom fighter and an unbending defender of the faith. A man of the future, and of the paSt.

Heidi Collins, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Well, it's some of those traditional values that has often brought this pope at odds with some Catholics here in the United States.

Still, John Paul had a very special relationship with the people of this country. He visited the United States during the first year of his papacy and continued to return, making seven trips here in all. The only country that got more visits was his home, Poland.

Joining me to talk about this pope's relationship with American Catholics and with Catholics around the world is the Rev. Joseph Koterski, chair of the department of philosophy at Fordham University. He's an avid student of Pope John Paul II.

We appreciate you being with us.

REV. JOSEPH KOTERSKI, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY: Delighted to be here tonight.

COOPER: This pope's relationship with the United States, I mean, visiting here seven times, what was the relationship like and why -- why did he come here so often?

KOTERSKI: I think he wanted to come to what he called the capitol of the world.

COOPER: That's what he called the United States.

KOTERSKI: He called the United -- New York especially, and he did so mindful that so many important trends are set here, so many important businesses and economic concerns and thoughts are thought here.

And he wanted to come to the United Nations. And so his two visits to the United Nations, trying to plead for peace and plead for the message of Christ before all the nations of the world, extremely important.

COOPER: His legacy, I mean, there are so many different facets to it, obviously. So much has been said about his fight against communism, that the influence he had on the Solidarity movement in Poland. What -- as you look at his legacy, what do you take away? KOTERSKI: There's an intellectual legacy as well as a legacy on the stage of world history. And there's something important for the church.

COOPER: How do you mean an intellectual legacy?

KOTERSKI: He was a great writer and a philosopher. I'd be willing to bet you a beer if we meet 100 years from now...

COOPER: Are you allowed to bet me a beer?

KOTERSKI: I'm allowed to bet you a beer. And if we could do that, 100 years from now, one of the books they're still going to be talking about is his encyclical, "Veritatis Splendor," the splendor of the truth.

In that, not only does he do wonderful things with the scriptures, but he in the second chapter undertakes a criticism of four of the really important ideas that are afloat in ethics today. And he's got his own take on it.

I like to think about it sort of as a good cholesterol, bad cholesterol approach. He identifies what's wrong with the way these concepts are used, and then he proposes his own way of using them better.

COOPER: And in his suffering, I mean, his suffering was very public and that fits into his writings about suffering.

KOTERSKI: He wrote about that too. His 1987 letter on the Christian meaning of human suffering is a sleeper. And when it's discovered, I think it will be both personally edifying as well as intellectually challenging for a whole generation of intellectuals.

COOPER: You know, when you look at polls of how American Catholics viewed this pope, more than 60 percent say they like what he was doing. About one third, though, said that they might have some problems.

I actually think we have a poll we can put up. About one third said he was -- he was too conservative. And two percent said -- 33 percent too conservative, two percent too liberal, 62 percent about right.

Did -- was his job here -- did he see part of his role as clarifying the teachings of the church here?

KOTERSKI: Definitely. And constantly taking us back to the fact that, conservative or liberal, we all have to conform our minds and understandings to the heart of Christ. If we're more conservative than Christ is, then we better get with Christ. If we're more liberal than Christ is, we had better get on his page.

And I think what he called us back to again and again as Catholics was to try to understand the mind of our lord.

COOPER: It's certainly a sad night for people around the world. But also a night to celebrate the life of this man.

KOTERSKI: I find myself very thankful for the 26 years of his leadership.

COOPER: So for you, it's not so much -- I mean, there's sadness, but there's also joy.

KOTERSKI: There is, but there's sadness, but there's also just much gratitude.

COOPER: All right. Father, thank you very much for being with us. Appreciate it.

KOTERSKI: Delightful. Delightful.

COOPER: Nice to meet you.

Coming up next on this special edition of 360, the pope, and Islam and Judaism, and the world's religions. How he reached out to so many other faiths.

Also a little later tonight, a look at what will happen in these next few hours and in these days to come when the pope finishes his journey. Stay with us.

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COOPER: Some of the sights and the sounds at the Vatican from earlier today. A scene we have been watching all throughout this day and continue to watch very closely as we monitor these last difficult hours as the pope's journey comes to an end.

Earlier today, worshippers said the Rosary. They prayed for Pope John Paul II. And they are doing that right now here at St. Peter -- at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City and doing that at the Vatican at St. Peter's, of course.

Pope John Paul will be remembered in so many different ways, in part for doing things that, really, no other pope had done before. Nearly four years ago, he tried to bridge the gap between Christians and Muslims by coming the first pontiff to enter a mosque. He was also the first pontiff to enter a synagogue.

But after John Paul departs, the next pope might encounter even more challenges as he deals with a growing Muslim faith.

CNN senior international correspondent Walter Rodgers takes us beyond the headlines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): This mosque in the not too distant shadow of the Vatican speaks to a serious problem the new pope will face. Built with Saudi oil money on the outskirts of Rome, it is seen by some in the Catholic Church as another example of Islamic encroachment in historically Christian Europe.

John ALLEN, Vatican ANALYST: In England today -- today, there are more Muslims that go to mosque on Friday, than there are Anglicans, practicing Anglicans that go to church on Sunday. Certainly, there are many people in senior -- in the senior level of the Catholic Church and other Christian denominations that are worried that within a generation Europe may well be an outpost of the Islamic world as opposed to being the cradle of Christian civilization.

RODGERS: In Europe, Catholic and Protestant churches are emptying as the older generations die out. And in Africa, the Christian churches face challenges.

REV. BERNARDO CERVELLERA, CHURCH ANALYST: The battle for souls is in all the -- let us say in Central Africa and, in fact, Saudi Arabia is financing strongly and very, very, very deeply the preaching of Islam and the building of mosques in Central Africa.

RODGERS: Before the rise of Islam, there were many Christian churches. In North Africa, home of St. Augustine, in Arabia, Turkey and the near east. Through the centuries, Islam swept those churches away.

ALLEN: The idea of waking up one morning and finding that the Holy Land is empty of Christians, is a really devastating concept.

RODGERS: Pope John Paul II avoided confrontation with resurgent Islam. He opted for accommodation, seeing Muslims as allies in his struggle against abortion and birth control. He prayed with Muslims at the Ummayad Mosque in Damascus. He opposed the most recent war in Iraq, in part, hoping his opposition would protect shrinking Christian minorities in the Arab world. His outlook found resonance among some Arab Catholics who saw it as a way to build bridges with Muslims.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What they saw from the West, they saw invasions. They saw war. They saw army. They saw destruction. So I think Islam, it has to be understood. It has to be discussed. It has -- we have to have a dialogue with them and to understand each other.

RODGERS: But dialogue with which Islam?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With al Qaeda, it's not possible to talk about even religion. al Qaeda is an anti-western movement. And because it is anti-western, it is also anti-Christian.

RODGERS: One of the difficulties facing the new pope will be the absence of a Muslim equivalent to talk to. And many in the Roman Catholic Church now feel there is no level playing field in the battle for souls with Islam. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When their citizens show up in the west, there is always a demand for legal recognition, for fair play, for the ability to build centers of worship. But the same thing certainly doesn't go on when Christians immigrate into the Arab world.

RODGERS: Many believe the new pope will face increased pressure from within the church to take a tougher line defending the faith, even as Christianity's roots continue to shrink in Europe.

Walter Rodgers, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: With our special expanded coverage of the life and the legacy of Pope John Paul II continues. But we're tracking a number of other stories that are happening right now. Want to bring you up to date. Funeral plans being made for Terri Schiavo. For that and other stories, we go to Erica Hill from "HEADLINE NEWS."

HILL: Hi, again Anderson.

This, of course, the other big story of the week. Michael Schiavo and his inlaws will mourn the death of Terri Schiavo separately. Schiavo plans to cremate his wife's remains and bury the ashes in Pennsylvania where she grew up. Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, want her buried in Florida, but don't plan a court fight over their daughters remains. They've scheduled a funeral mass for Tuesday. The medical examiner completed the autopsy of Terri Schiavo today. Those results, however, may not be released for several weeks.

You'll likely have to dig even deeper to pay for your next fill- up. Yes, you're hearing it again. Gas prices on the rise. Analysts now saying they'll probably average more than $2.25 a gallon within just the next few weeks. Well, oil prices hit a record high today, topping $57 a barrel. A report from investment bank Goldman Sachs says oil prices could go as high as $105 a barrel. Blow up the tires on your bike.

Conservative commentator Pat Buchanan was forced to cut short an appearance last night when a demonstrator yelled stop the bigotry and, check that video out, and threw salad dressing on him. Buchanan thanked the crowd at Western Michigan University for coming and then said, he had to leave to go wash his hair.

The demonstrator was arrested for disturbing the peace. As they say, though, oil is actually good for your hair, Anderson, so maybe it worked out well in the end.

COOPER: All right. Erica Hill, thanks very much for the update. We'll see you again in about 30 minutes.

Coming up next on this special edition of 360, the church without a pope. What could happen when it doesn't have a single person in charge?

Take a look at that.

Also later tonight, the pope as he was when he first became the pontiff. A look back, as we leave you with a live picture of Vatican City at 2:45 a.m. We'll return in just a moment.

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COOPER: Welcome back to this special edition of 360. We are coming to you live from St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City. We want to welcome our viewers from around the world, watching us on CNN and CNN International.

Tonight, the pope is clinging to life inside his Vatican apartment. And leaders of the church believe his passing is imminent. If it does happen soon, more than 1 billion Catholics worldwide will be left without a single person in charge, at least temporarily.

CNN's Jim Bittermann reports on what exactly that means for the church.

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JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Much of what the Catholic Church does happens far from Pope John Paul's Vatican office. Most all of it takes place without the slightest sign of papal intervention. An army of more than 405,000 priests and 4,700 bishops knows what must be done to carry on the work of the pope, whether or not he's there or too urge them on or restrain them. And so unlike a corporation or a government, the Catholic Church does not immediately spin out of control if the chair of St. Peter is empty.

ULRICH ESSER, GREGORIAN UNIVERSITY SEMINARIAN: The church is more than 2,000 years old. So two weeks without the Holy Father, that can bother nothing.

BITTERMANN: With or without the pope, the Catholic universities go on training up young theologians.

Even at the top of the hierarchy and the dicasteries, the Vatican equivalent of government ministries, the bureaucratic work grinds on. But the decline in John Paul's health has meant more and more power going to those at the top, three men in particular. Italian born Angelo Sodano, is essentially the Vatican's prime minister. with the pope no longer able to carry out even ceremonial duties, Cardinal Sodano has become the point man, especially in the area of foreign affairs.

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, a German, is in charge of the congregation of the doctrine of the faith, the church institution most responsible for enforcing church teachings. His writings have been more doctrinaire than the pope.

And with a lower rank, but not less power, Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz, the pope's personal secretary for 40 years. He has always been at John Paul's side. And now that that the pope is been ailing, he is the go to person for the pope's signature and thought to be the one who has final say on the pope's medical treatment.

But the three are just first among equals. Other cardinals have their own individual powers. Only John Paul can give them orders.

(on camera): Over the years, the pope has delegated more and more responsibility to his top churchmen. And sometimes, there are disputes among them. But without the pope in place, there is no one to resolve them.

(voice-over): And some say therein lies the real problem with an extended papal illness.

REV. KEITH PECKLERS, GREGORIAN UNIVERSITY: What happens down the road if we have a pope, for example, who can no longer speak, who can no longer be seen in public, for example. And then there we're going to have to face some serious questions.

BITTERMANN: Not the least among them, how to maintain the coherence and cohesion of a church without a single person in charge. Jim Bittermann, Vatican City.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, the reports today from the Vatican certainly indicate that the pope is not in a position to make any of those key decisions.

To discuss what happens in these next days and hours and weeks, we turn to CNN Vatican analyst, Delia Gallagher, who joins us live now in Rome. Delia, thanks for being with us tonight.

If the pope lingers in his current state, what happens in terms of the interim leadership of the church?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN Vatican ANALYST: Anderson, you know, I put that question to a cardinal not so long ago. And his answer, I think, was indicative of what many cardinals say here, which is we don't believe providence will let that happen.

And I think that that is something that the cardinals say, because they do believe it, but also because there is no system in place. There is no vice pope, as it were, who can take over the pope's duties if he is incapacitated. It's one of the big open questions in canon law of what would happen.

The pope has authority on several things, such as creating bishops, creating saints, signing off on issues of doctrine. All of those require the pope's signature, the pope's approval. So all of those items would have to be stopped in the interim.

But there are other day-to-day running of the Vatican and the curial offices which continue as normal -- Anderson.

COOPER: Well, Delia, I know with the pope alive, Vatican officials do not like to talk about a possible successor. Is anything actually being done about choosing a successor at this point? Or is that simply just you know, I mean, everyone knows the tradition of how it's done and they're just waiting to see what happens next?

GALLAGHER: Well, yes, of course. I think this has its stages. And we're still in the first stage. And the cardinals are not going to jump the gun, certainly, publicly and start talking about choosing a successor. Although, of course, they have been alerted as to the pope's condition and they are aware they'll bear that responsibility in some time to come. So privately, we can assume that they are thinking about, if not, indeed, discussing it amongst themselves.

It's interesting that just last week, the Polish cardinal, Cardinal Glemp, who is from the pope's homeland, gave a slight indiscretion to an Argentinean paper, speaking about the next papacy and thinking that it might go back to an Italian. But that is an unusual indiscretion in these times, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Delia Gallagher, thank you very much for our continuing coverage.

To point out, Pope John Paul II was the first non-Italian pope in hundreds of years. In the 1500s, there was a non-Italian pope. But Delia Gallagher saying one at least cardinal thought it might go back to being an Italian pope. We, of course, shall see.

CNN's primetime coverage of the pope continues with PaulA ZAHN NOW. Let's check in with Paula for a preview.

Paula.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, so much Anderson. Appreciate it.

Of course, we too will be following the pope's condition with live reports from Vatican City. We'll also be talking with some of the pope's followers in Los Angeles, Chicago and New York City tonight.

And we will bring you the story of Pope John Paul II's best friend from childhood, what is surprising about this, this man is Jewish. This relationship flourished between two World Wars. And we'll talk about how their continuing friendship helped change the world.

Anderson, a lot of people credit this one man with opening the pope's eyes to the importance of bridging the gaps between Catholics and Jews.

COOPER: A fascinating story. Paula Zahn, we'll be watching. Thanks very much.

Coming up next, though, on this special edition of 360, as Catholics around the world pray for the pope, we look back remembering when he first came to the Vatican.

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COOPER: And a live picture of the Vatican. Tonight, taking a last look to the Nth Degree.

Those who have known the pope only as a frail old man ought to be reminded of something. It's this. Look at this. Look at him. He cut quite a figure when he first became pontiff 26-years-ago in 1978.

Nevermind that he was the first non-Italian pope in 455 years, the important thing is that he was the youngest vicar of Christ any person then living had ever seen. A strapping, vigorous man of 58 whose stance and stride clearly showed the skier he had been in his native Poland. The skier, and hiker, and mountain climber, the sportsman.

That was the thing about him, then and for decades, his strength and tirelessness. How else could he have traveled to 120 countries, more than any other pope ever had. How else could he have canonized more saints, 482, than any other pope ever had, or proclaimed 1,338 people as blessed, a step toward sainthood, or created 232 cardinals.

Time and illness took their toll, yes, but do not think this man, do not think that Karol Joseph Wojtyla once archbishop of Krakau, then Pope John Paul II was always a silent pale figure seated on the papal balcony, holding up a thin hand. For a long time, a long time, he walked very tall indeed.

Our primetime coverage continues now with "PaulA ZAHN NOW."

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