Return to Transcripts main page

Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Missing Boy Scout Found Alive; Former Klansman Found Guilty of Manslaughter; BTK Speaks

Aired June 21, 2005 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening, everyone. How the little lost Boy Scout survived, alone in the mountains. 360 starts now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): A missing Boy Scout found alive. Tonight, how the 11-year-old survived for days alone in the woods.

BOB HAWKINS, BRENNAN'S UNCLE: Brennan has been found. He's in very good condition.

COOPER: And what really happened the day he disappeared.

Justice at last. A former Klansman found guilty in the murders of three civil rights workers. Tonight, meet a Mississippi mayor who still insists the KKK did a lot of good.

The alleged BTK killer speaks out for the first time since his arrest. Tonight, hear what he has to say about his family, his alleged crimes and the fight for his life.

Tom Cruise, John Travolta and now, Katie Holmes? Stars flocking to Scientology. But why is it so popular and what do they really teach?

And how clean is your ice? Before you reach for an ice cold drink, you might want to find out.

JENNIFER BERG, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: Tainted ice is usually the result of having E. coli, fecal matter inside the ice.

COOPER: Tonight, the shocking truth about what you may find frozen in your ice.

ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: And good evening to you. The heavens are not closed, prayers are answered, and children come home. Those words spoken a little more than an hour ago by the mother of 11-year-old Brennan Hawkins, the little Boy Scout found alive and well hours ago in the Utah mountains.

Now, this is the first picture we have of Brennan. There he is waving. Sunburned, tired certainly, after four days in the wilderness. His mother clearly ecstatic and grateful.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JODY HAWKINS, BRENNAN'S MOTHER: We want to thank every single person that ran the command post, that made a sandwich, that sent food. Businesses, Toby's co-workers. You will never know of our love and our support for each one of you. Our family and friends have been our rock.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: So many people turned out to search for this young man, this young boy, and it has ended very well, indeed.

CNN's Keith Oppenheim is just back from the very place that Brennan Hawkins was found. Keith, walk us through this day. A remarkable discovery.

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When I got here today, Anderson, I was turning off a state road and I saw an ambulance in motion, and I didn't really know what it was, if it had anything to do with the discovery of Brennan Hawkins. Indeed, about a half hour later, we learned that a couple of guys who were on ATV vehicles, all- terrain vehicles, had found Brennan Hawkins in a place called Lily Lake. It's a couple of miles away from here. Elevation is probably a little bit higher, and he was in a deforested area that was burnt out by a forest fire.

They brought in the helicopter to the nearby field, and they were able to get Brennan reunited with his parents, and then drive him to Salt Lake City to a hospital. He is in very good condition.

The area that I just went to is a place where people go camping if they want to go camping in the wilderness, but it is not a safe place to be alone for anyone, particularly for an 11-year-old boy. Not only has there been a forest fire in the area where he was, but had there been bad weather, he would have been in great danger. Lightning could have caused a fire in the exposed area that he was in, and also, if there had been significant cold or rain, he would have been even colder than he was. He was found quite cold and hungry. Turns out that the weather in the last couple of days was relatively pretty good, and since it rained this afternoon, and it is raining right now, I'd have to say that Brennan Hawkins was found in the nick of time.

COOPER: Keith, was this -- I mean, this was what, five miles or so from the area where he vanished? Was this an area that people expected he would head to, I mean, or was the search centered somewhere else?

OPPENHEIM: I don't think that they expected that he would be in this specific spot, but sheriffs told us that they used a system of basically going out from the center point from where he was. So it turned out that there were not only people on all-terrain vehicles in that area, but that apparently Brennan had seen some rescuers on horseback, but was a little bit afraid to approach them, apparently. No details on that yet... COOPER: Keith, we're also...

OPPENHEIM: ... but there were other rescuers in that area prior to the folks who were on the all-terrain vehicles who actually found him and got him to safety.

COOPER: Keith, you were just sending us some pictures, we're seeing them for the first time. We had them up there for a little bit -- here they are. This is the actual lake. This is the lake where Brennan was found. That's called Lily Lake, and as we said, it's about five miles from the location.

So there's clearly, a lot yet to learn from this little boy. He has not made obviously any public statements, though we did hear a brief statement from his mom. And of course, we're going to bring you any statements that they happen to make in this next hour or so.

We are also going to talk to a Boy Scout leader about some of the skills that Brennan has learned that might have helped him over these last four days. It's amazing when you think about it, four days alone in the Utah mountains.

You know, we wish we could tell you that the joy the family of Brennan Hawkins is feeling tonight is being shared by the people who know and love Natalee Holloway. Sadly, we can't. It's a much different story on the island of Aruba. She is still missing. The search continues, but we are getting some new information this evening about one of the suspects now in custody in tonight's "World in 360."

CNN's Karl Penhaul is live in Palm Beach, Aruba. Karl, tell me the latest.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there was a strange meeting this afternoon, Anderson. Beth Twitty, that's Natalee's mother, was handing out prayer slips in the neighborhood where one of the suspects lives. These prayer slips asking for the local people to pray for Natalee.

She came up to the door of Joran Van Der Sloot's father and mother's house and was about to post a prayer slip through their letter box, and the father comes out -- that's the island judge, Paul Van Der Sloot -- and he invited Beth Twitty into the house. This is as told to us by sources very close to the family, family friends.

Now, they say that Beth Twitty went inside, met with Paul Van Der Sloot and with Anita Van Der Sloot -- that's Joran's mother -- they shared a conversation there.

Now, the family friends haven't told us for privacy's sake what these people discussed, but when Beth came out, she did look very drained, according to a family friend, but she was calm about the situation.

Now, this is the first time that the families have met to talk a little bit about this case. As I say, though, we don't know what came out of it. Other information that we've had today, the attorney that is now working with Natalee's family has told us that behavioral experts have been flown in from the United States. They will now sit in the interrogations when the three boys are being interrogated, the three suspects, and they'll be able to detect whether these boys are lying. This is because lie detector tests aren't allowed under Dutch law.

And the other piece of information we've had today is this Steve Croes, the fourth suspect arrested on Friday. Law enforcement sources have told us that he was arrested because initially he had said to police when interviewed as a witness that he saw the boys drop Natalee off at the Holiday Inn. As the three boys' stories fell apart, it became plain to police that he was lying. So that's why he's now been picked up as a suspect, Anderson.

COOPER: Karl, I just want to recap what you said at the beginning, because this is new information that I'm just hearing for the first time, and I think our viewers are as well.

I talked to Natalee's mom, I think it was just yesterday, and we know Natalee's stepdad, Natalee's mom's husband, has had some very harsh things to say about Joran Van Der Sloot's father, about him running away from camera, that he has a very low opinion of him. So she basically has now, for the first time since these charges have been brought, she's actually gone into the house of the Dutch suspect and met with the parents?

PENHAUL: Absolutely correct, Anderson. It seems amazing, but as I say, she was handing out these prayer slips, went up to Joran Van Der Sloot's parents' home to put that prayer slip in the letter box, and the father comes out and invites her in.

So, again, as I say, we don't know exactly what they've been talking about, but family friends do say that Beth came out looking very drained, because it is an emotional strain, all these past days, but they do say that she looked calm. So there doesn't seem to have been any kind of confrontation, but they did certainly have a conversation for several minutes, Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Karl Penhaul. Appreciate it. Thanks very much for the update.

Coming up next on 360, Mississippi burning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Mayor, yesterday, you pretty much stunned the courtroom by saying that Ku Klux Klan did a lot of good and was a peaceful organization. Do you really believe that?

HARLAN MAJURE, FORMER MAYOR OF PHILADELPHIA, MISSISSIPPI: I know it was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Where the mayor stands on the one-time KKK member convicted today of killing three civil rights workers in 1964, says he's glad he's guilty, but says the Klan did some good.

Also ahead, more on the Boy Scout found alive after being missing in the Utah mountains for four days. How did he do it? Details and a live report.

And later, Tom Cruise -- well, we all know he's found love, and he's been talking a lot about his religion. 360 goes inside the Church of Scientology.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: More details now in the wonderful story which we began tonight, the finding -- safe and sound -- of an 11-year-old Boy Scout after four days in the wilderness. Now, we were hoping to bring you an interview with a Boy Scout leader on survival techniques, but we had technical issues.

For now we go back live to Summit County, Utah, for the latest from CNN's Ted Rowlands. Ted, you were there. You reported it first on the air the moment this young man was found. Take us back.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this has been an amazing story (INAUDIBLE)...

COOPER: Clearly -- Ted, I'm sorry. Hey, Ted, I'm sorry, we're having a problem with your mike. Clearly, it's a remote area. We're having some technical issues on that and we'll try to get back to you a little bit later on. Ted, appreciate it.

Erica Hill from HEADLINE NEWS joins with us a voice, much less scratchy than Ted Rowlands. Erica, good evening.

ERICA HILL, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: I don't know. You're lucky it turned out all right. You hadn't heard me yet.

We'll start out actually with a rather somber story of a deadly train and truck collision in southern Israel. At least seven people were killed; nearly 200 others injured. The train was on its way from Tel Aviv to Beershiba. Authorities say the tragedy was an accident. It was not a terror attack.

At the White House, a historic visit, the first by a Vietnamese prime minister since the Vietnam War ended 30 years ago. President Bush told the prime minister he supports Vietnam's bid to join the World Trade Organization, but he also said Vietnam needs reforms like human rights and religious freedoms.

Meanwhile on Capitol Hill, Republican senators not giving up on John Bolton's nomination for U.N. ambassador. After meeting with President Bush, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist says they will try for a third vote after two failed attempts. Democrats have blocked the nomination. They're demanding records to see if Bolton misused U.S. intelligence as undersecretary of state for arms control. The White House has refused, citing executive privilege.

And Heby, Sweden -- I believe that's the correct pronunciation -- a chopper down just moments after takeoff. It's pretty scary. Onboard, a man who was celebrating his 100th birthday along with four family members, a worker from his nursing home, and the pilot. TV crews were actually there. They were getting what was supposed to be a joyful celebration. The amazing part here, everybody survived, mainly with just cuts and bruises. As for the birthday boy, he's OK. He was airlifted to a hospital where he is in fair condition. Memorable birthday there.

COOPER: And then you have that happen to you? That's not good.

HILL: No, but he survived it and he's 100 years old, so...

COOPER: Hey, he's -- clearly, he's got some secrets I could use. Erica, thanks very -- how do you like my new haircut? It's like...

HILL: I was wondering if you got a little trim, but I didn't want to say anything because last time you got upset.

COOPER: I thought you were going to make a joke about a lawn mower or something.

HILL: No, not at all, looks lovely. Did somebody -- but did the barber save the hair this time to sell the hair on eBay?

COOPER: No, that was another story.

HILL: I'll keep looking at the postings.

COOPER: All right, thanks very much. I'll see you again in about 30 minutes.

A reminder of a new and free tool on our Web site. You can track down any video you want to see, 24-seven on CNN.com. You just click on the video link. How much easier could that be?

More details now on the story we began the evening with: 11-year- old Cub -- Boy Scout found after four days in the wilderness. Let's see if Ted Rowlands' mike is working.

Ted, what's the latest?

ROWLANDS: Well, the latest is that he is still hospitalized in Salt Lake City, getting treated and with his family.

A wonderful story, an amazing story, of survival for this 11- year-old Brennan Hawkins. I want to show you the ridgeline he walked over. It's incredible.

This 11-year-old not only left the Boy Scout camp, but walked up and around this ridgeline that you're seeing here. This was an area that searchers didn't go to because they thought there was a low probability that he could get himself that far away. They did continue to search. They had the manpower to continue the search and then today they found him cold, but unharmed.

According to his father and according to sheriff deputies here who were involved in the search, they'd heard that Brennan was only wearing this sweatshirt and shorts. But they say that he -- you know, as kids will sometimes do -- he sort of squatted down and would pull the sweatshirt over his knees to keep warm. He was in a wooded area. That helped him. It did not rain. It is raining now, but for the four days he was missing, it did not rain at all.

When they found him, he was cold. He said he was cold and thirsty and said he wanted to see his mother as well. And he did get to see his mother. In fact, the sheriff said that when he saw his mother and father and Brennan reunited, it was the most touching thing that he had ever seen in his life. And, really, you could see, everyone who has been covering this and all of the volunteers has been touched by this story. It's really -- an amazing end.

COOPER: Ted, what kind of -- what elevation are you at? I mean, how cold does it get at night?

ROWLANDS: We're at about 9,000 feet and it gets -- typically it gets under 30 and freezing during this time of year at night, sporadically. While he was gone, though it only dipped down to the low 30s once, and that was last night and that was the coldest that he had to endure. Mother Nature really pitched in here and the sheriff said that it made the big difference. It didn't rain and it wasn't cold, and that's the reason he survived.

COOPER: Well, an awful lot of people pitching in to find this young man. Ted Rowlands, appreciate it. Thanks.

One of the people working to help this little boy right now, Bonnie Midget. She's with the Children's Primary Hospital where Brennan is currently residing. Bonnie, what can you tell us about his condition?

BONNIE MIDGET, CHILDREN'S PRIMARY HOSPITAL SPOKESPERSON: Well, he is in remarkable condition, especially considering what he's been through in the last few days. He's dehydrated and we are currently evaluating all of his condition, but he looks good.

COOPER: Yes, we're seeing a picture of him right now. This is, I believe, the picture of him arriving at your hospital, getting off the stretcher. There's a towel wrapped around his head. I mean, was there a concern about his neck or anything?

MIDGET: You know, I don't think so. He is sunburned and like I said, very dehydrated, but other than that, he's in good condition.

COOPER: Is he sleeping now? I guess his family's all around him.

MIDGET: He's awake in there with our medical staff and with his family.

COOPER: And he seems in good spirits?

MIDGET: Pardon me?

COOPER: He seems in good spirits? MIDGET: Well, he seems good. He's very tired, as you can imagine.

COOPER: Yes, it's got to be incredible. Man, what a story this little boy is going to have to tell, especially to his grandkids.

MIDGET: Yes.

COOPER: Yes, Bonnie, thanks very much and appreciate all of the work you're doing there. Thanks for joining us.

Coming up next on 360, a different kind of story. They're cold, they're clear, but they ain't exactly clean. We're talking about what may be in your ice cubes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's disgusting.

BERG: It's so easy to spread. It is very easy to prevent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Not sure what she's talking about, but I imagine some sort of nasty stuff that's in ice. We checked ice in restaurants around the country, maybe even in your neighborhood. We'll tell you what disgusted Heidi Collins so much, part of our special series, "Enough to Make You Sick."

Also, tonight, he said the KKK was a good and peaceful organization and that's not all he believes. We're going to talk with the former mayor of Philadelphia, Mississippi, on the day a former Klansman, a man he says is a good guy, was convicted of manslaughter three times.

And a little while later, we've seen his face. Now, for the first time since his capture, we're going to hear what the BTK suspect has to say for himself in his own words. You'll hear his voice.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: I did not know that: 35 to 100 serial killers active at any one time in the U.S.

Now, the man accused of being the BTK killer is going to appear in court for a hearing next week, but tonight we're hearing from Dennis Rader really for the first time.

Up until now this is really -- this is how we've seen him, a silent figure in courtrooms. He's accused of murdering at least 10 people over the span of four decades in Wichita, Kansas.

Now, Rader still has not entered a plea. He could do that on Monday. He talked this weekend, however, to a local news station.

Here's CNN's Bob Franken.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From anyone else, these would be routine complaints about life behind bars, but they're chilling when they come from Dennis Rader, the man charged with at least ten murders over four decades.

DENNIS RADER, ACCUSED BTK KILLER: I can't tell you what's going to happen.

FRANKEN: He was coy about his upcoming court appearance Monday, accused of being the so-called BTK serial killer, starting back in 1974. Other homicides are still being investigated. In a wide-ranging telephone interview Sunday with Wichita station KSMW, Rader charges that his legal rights are being violated and that he's being harassed as his hearing gets closer.

RADER: Yeah, and they're putting a lot of pressure on me. I don't know whether, I think it's coming from the prosecution or from the jail but I don't know where it's coming from, but anyway, it's about to rip me open.

FRANKEN: He would not discuss specifics of the case at all, but he complained he's had trouble getting mail. The sheriff's office acknowledged that it does examine mail for contraband.

Rader said he had heard from his wife.

RADER: Yeah, Paula has opened up a little bit more. She's writing a little bit more. Kids are hit and miss, you know, they're busy, but yeah, I'm getting letters and phone calls.

FRANKEN: When Rader was arrested last February, he was living a relatively unobtrusive life, a family man married for 30 years and president of his Lutheran church. Sometimes, strangely as he complains, he describes himself in the third person, other times as, we.

RADER: We haven't had a haircut for almost two months, we haven't had a pair of clippers in two months.

FRANKEN: The sheriff's office says it routinely provides hair clippers to inmates. Officials have given no further response to CNN.

And the man who is charged with 10 murders so far, who allegedly named himself BTK for bind, torture, kill, is worried about how he looks to the community.

RADER: Remember not too much negative. I don't like to see too much negative. I mean on, you know, on my family, or you know.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): Justice at last. A former Klansman found guilty in the murders of three civil rights workers. Tonight, meet a Mississippi mayor who still insists the KKK did a lot of good.

Tom Cruise, John Travolta and now Katie Holmes. Stars flocking to Scientology. But why is it so popular and what do they really teach?

And, how clean is your ice? Before you reach for an ice cold drink, you might want to find out.

BERG: Tainted ice is usually a result of having E. coli fecal matter inside the ice.

COOPER: Tonight, the shocking truth about what you may find frozen in your ice. 360 continues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: It's about half-past the hour. Let's reset, get a new look at tonight's top stories.

A happy ending today in the search for 11-year-old Boy Scout Brennan Hawkins. He vanished four days ago at his camp in the mountains of Utah. This afternoon, well you see him right there, he was found safe and sound, sun-burned, tired, no doubt about it, but man, he's going to have some stories to tell.

And in Philadelphia, Mississippi, an ending of a totally different kind, altogether. This man, Edgar Ray Killen was found guilty of manslaughter. It was 1964. Three civil rights workers were murdered, shot in the dead of night, their bodies buried with a bulldozer. Take a look at them.

Killen, a former KKK member, was convicted of planning and organizing these men's killings. It was exactly 41 years ago today they were murdered. Let's just take a look at these pictures: James Cheney, there you see him in the middle, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner. All in their early 20s. Combine their ages, they still would not be nearly as old as 80-year-old Edgar Ray Killen.

Yesterday on the witness stand, the former mayor of Philadelphia, Mississippi was testifying as to the good character of Mr. Killen and he made a startling statement. He said, "the Ku Klux Klan was a peaceful organization and did a lot of good."

Now, we don't take sides on 360. We like to look at all of the angles, but we do care about facts. The truth does matter. So, earlier today I spoke with Philadelphia's former mayor, Harlan Majure.

COOPER: Why do you believe the Ku Klux Klan, at any time in their history, was a peaceful organization and did a lot of good?

MAJURE: Because when I was a small child in the mid-'30s and during the Depression years, my daddy worked at a little country store and made two or three dollars a day. At night, when he would come in from being at that store, he would say, well, the Klan was busy of the weekend. And he was not a member of the Klan. None of our family have ever been a member of the Klan. But he said they went by to see whoever -- so-and-so -- because if there was anybody in the community or the neighbors that would not take care of their family, too sorry to work or would waste their money and not take care of the wife and the children, the Klan would pay them a visit. If there was somebody in the neighborhood that was messing around with somebody's house or somebody else's wife, the Klan would pay him a visit. And they visited more white people and they whipped more white people than they did black people, and this was, like I said, in the '30s.

COOPER: Are you kidding? Do you know that the U.S. Senate just apologized for their role in not preventing the lynchings of several thousand African-Americans going back more than 100 years -- 4,700 lynchings that happened from 1982 and 1968?

MAJURE: No. I'm not aware of that.

COOPER: You were a twice-elected official. Don't you have responsibility to be aware of the history, not only of your town and your -- but the country we live in? Shouldn't -- if you're going to make comments about the Ku Klux Klan, shouldn't you read some history books about it?

MAJURE: Well, I didn't plan to be making any comments about it. I was summoned to be up there. I didn't believe even that the people were killed. I thought it was a publicity stunt until later on, while they were looking for them, the FBI and whoever else were having a search party, then I realized that it had actually happened, but I didn't believe it before that.

COOPER: You thought at the time that James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwerner, that it was a publicity stunt?

MAJURE: Exactly. You're right. Uh-huh, and it should not have happened. I -- we were never in favor of that type of operation. We wasn't in favor of what they did coming down here, but certainly not killing anybody. That's wrong.

COOPER: You're saying they should not have been killed but they shouldn't have come down there?

MAJURE: Well, I'm saying that the people that were responsible for their death was the people that organized them, wherever, whatever towns they were in. I think, one of them, two of them, were from New York City. They should have been properly trained and expected more or less what you're come into and to change your tradition one summer that had been going to for hundreds and maybe thousands of years. It just doesn't happen.

COOPER: I'm sorry, sir. I really try to be respectful of all my guests and I respect you and your position, but you just said that these three men who were murdered in the dead of night and buried in an unmarked grave and just abandoned and, you know, bulldozed over -- you said that the people who responsible for their deaths are the people who sent them there to do voter registration, not the actual people who pulled the triggers?

MAJURE: I say they were responsible for them without schooling them, without proper training them, without giving them proper protection when they come down here because they should have known they were coming into a hostile environment. It would have happened in any city and any state. Where are you? Where am I talking to you?

COOPER: Ah, New York City.

MAJURE: All right, if I recruited a group of young people -- and I have two granddaughters that would be at the right age for that right now -- to go in and say, we're going to clean up the drugs, the prostitution, the money-laundering, the gang wars and stuff like that, in the city of New York and we just going to move in and take over, because that stuff is illegal and it was when I was up there in the military -- do you think we'd see the sunrise the next morning if we went in there forcibly changing that?

COOPER: Sir, it's just sad that in this day and age you're comparing people who came down to try to help African-Americans who were living in your community and been there for hundreds of years, people who had the right to vote and couldn't vote and weren't being allowed to vote and weren't being allowed to sit at lunch counters -- you're comparing to people who came down to help those people to someone, like, trying to root out drug dealers and killers and rapists?

MAJURE: No, I'm comparing the situation. They were uninvited. They should've -- we were making progress down here. It was slow and it wasn't at the speed that the federal government wanted and it wasn't at the speed that whoever these were that organized this wanted to.

COOPER: Well, whoever these were -- you know, the NAACP -- you say as if these three people came down were aliens from outer space. I mean, yes, two of them were from New York, but you know, James Chaney was from Meridian, Mississippi, and that's where my grandmother's from. That's where -- my dad was born in Quitman, not too far from where you are right now, and I've got to tell you, you know, what's wrong with someone from Meridian, Mississippi, an African-American, saying I want to be able to vote?

MAJURE: Not anything wrong with it as far as I'm concerned. The timing was bad and when we were more or less invaded, but it's just like I said, if I did the same thing in New York City, they wouldn't see the sunrise and you know that.

COOPER: When was the right timing to give African-Americans the vote?

MAJURE: I don't have the answer to that question. There's no way I could.

COOPER: You testified that Mr. Killen is a good guy, basically. You were testifying to his character. Do you still think he's a good guy now that the jury has said he's responsible for manslaughter? MAJURE: Oh, this should not have happened. And evidently, he was probably part of it because I didn't hear the testimonies, but there's no way that you can answer all these questions that you asked because this is history and it was history in the making. They should have known they were going to run into a hostile situation when they came in, but they should not have been killed. I've never thought that.

COOPER: Well, sir, I appreciate you coming on the program and giving us your perspective and we to appreciate it. Mayor Harlan Majure, appreciate it very much, sir.

MAJURE: All right, thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: There are many people who say people going into a hostile situation, knowing it's a hostile situation, knowing they could get killed and yet do it nevertheless, aren't foolish, aren't bad, they're heroes.

Coming up next on 360, the Church of Scientology. What makes it so appealing to guys like Tom Cruise and other Hollywood stars? 360 tries to find out.

Also tonight, breakdown in the Middle East. Chances for a truce between Israel and Palestinians is dealt a setback.

And a little later, ice, ice, baby -- not the vanilla kind. We'll give you the dirt in the ice you get when you go out to eat. Did I say eat? Go out to eat -- part of the series, it's "Enough to Make You Sick."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: So, last night -- I hope you were watching -- we discovered all the hidden bacteria living in our offices -- well, my office in particular.

Here's Heidi Collins telling me microscopic critters have turned my keyboard, phone, and who knows what else into their own rent-free home. Yes, my office is more dirty than a toilet bowl. I heard it all day today. Hopefully, with some industrial-strength disinfectant that's all changed.

But that just covers where we work. What about where all of us eat? Tonight, we look at what's in the ice that you put in your cup. And folks, I hate to break the news to you, but it ain't just water.

Heidi Collins gives us the dirt on dirty ice in our week-long series, "Enough to Make You Sick."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's cold, refreshing and oh- so-good on a hot summer day, but did you ever think about what's in your ice? BERG: Fecal matter in ice is a serious problem.

COLLINS: Jennifer Berg is the head of the graduate department at the Food Science and Nutrition program at New York University. She says ice can hold bacteria that makes you just as sick as anything else you eat.

BERG: Tainted ice is usually a result of having E. coli, fecal matter inside the ice.

COLLINS (on camera): How worried should people be about something like this?

BERG: You know, we don't want to make the American public completely neurotic and scared of our food supply, when in reality we have a safer food supply than most countries, but we do need to be careful.

COLLINS (voice-over): Ice can become contaminated in many ways, like microorganisms in the water supply. But according to the experts CNN consulted, the most common causes of ice contamination are poor handling and storage.

Take Denton, Texas, 1999. Fifty-eight members of a high school drill team were infected with various levels of gastrointestinal illnesses at a camp. The ice got contaminated with E. coli after campers used their bare hands to scoop ice out of the machine. And recently, a British government study surveyed clubs, bars and pubs in London, and found half the ice they used was full of bugs and bacteria that can make people sick.

(on camera): So that got us thinking, what would we find if we bought ice just like you would on any given day at any given restaurant across the country?

(voice-over): We took our ice samples in Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta, New York and Los Angeles, at a combination of fast food chains and local establishments in each town, a total of 23 samples. In each location, we walked in and ordered our drinks with our ice on the side, and then carefully, without touching the ice, poured it into sterile bags, and then set the samples off to a certified food laboratory, Microbac Laboratories in Warrendale, Pennsylvania.

(on camera): Now, our study didn't follow all EPA protocol. That would mean we would have had to have gone to each restaurant four or five times, tested the city water, and then made sure that our sample ice touched nothing before it went into our sample bags. But our results were tested against the most basic EPA standards, and what we found was disturbing.

(voice-over): In every city but one, there was a restaurant that failed those EPA standards.

This McDonalds in Atlanta failed. This Dunkin' Donuts in Chicago failed. This 7-Eleven in Dallas failed, and so did this Burger King in Los Angeles. On the day we tested, according to Microbac Laboratories, each ice sample from these four establishments was contaminated with fecal matter.

(on camera): That's disgusting.

BERG: It's so easy to spread. It's very easy to prevent, very easy to prevent. It's a matter of washing in very warm water, really washing not just the hands but up until, you know, through the forearm, with soap, very hot water, drying it off, training employees to all do that.

COLLINS (voice-over): And the one city that got a clean bill of ice? Well, that surprised even us.

(on camera): When you think of New York, you think horribly dirty city, but yet when we did our little ice samples, not a single place failed. Why?

BERG: New York City has much more stringent laws and regulations in place inspecting food. The other thing is, in a city like New York, and if you're talking about the fast food places that you've looked at, they have very high volume. By the end of the evening, that ice machine has emptied out. They've completely depleted their supply.

COLLINS (voice-over): We then contacted the establishments that failed our single tests. In every case, after hearing the results of our test, the owner/operator said they shut down their ice machines and cleaned them thoroughly, and also retrained their employees.

All four restaurants said they retested their ice after cleaning the machines and found no trace of bacteria.

7-Eleven sent us this: "The safety of 7-11 customers is of the utmost importance to us."

And from Dunkin' Donuts: "Dunkin' Donuts strives to endure adherence to food safety standards."

McDonald's issued this statement from the franchise owner: "My restaurant has an excellent track record with our local health department. My last inspection score was 99 out of 100."

Burger King responded by telling us: "The particular restaurant has consistently achieved high health and safety results from both our internal and external audits, as well as those of the local health department."

However, health departments in Atlanta and in Los Angeles told us they do not test water in ice machines during health inspections.

To be fair, none of the other locations of these establishments failed our tests in other cities, and we only tested the failed establishments once. But clearly, there is contaminated ice out there. So, will it make you sick?

BERG: You personally, Heidi, probably not, but chances are people did. Young children, older people, anybody who was sick to begin with.

COLLINS: Most common complaints -- nausea, vomiting and diarrhea.

So what can you do to protect yourself? If you are lucky enough to live in one of the handful of states that have food safety officers, look for the sign telling you that one is on duty. Otherwise, if you see the server filling your cup, make sure they are wearing gloves, and they don't touch the ice.

Or you could do what Jennifer Berg does.

(on camera): Do you get ice in any of your drinks when you're out to eat?

BERG: I just decided it's OK to just have beverages room temperature.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: So whether you drink your drink with or without ice, you should know dirty hands in the ice bin is only half the problem. The other culprit for the contaminated ice is the ice machine itself. These dispensers need to be cleaned on a daily basis to prevent that buildup of water and bacteria in the very bottom of the bin and in the water lines.

COOPER: So are there any actual numbers on how many people get sick from ice?

COLLINS: Not really. There are not exact numbers. In fact, the CDC has been tracking the outbreaks of illnesses since about 1968 caused by contaminated ice, but they don't have precise figures, because people usually think they're getting sick from the food they eat, and hardly anybody really thinks of ice as a food.

COOPER: All right. Heidi Collins, thanks.

Before you go, though, Heidi, you know, we got a lot of e-mails from viewers about your program last night about germs in the office place. Marvin from California sent us this e-mail. He said: "Hey, Anderson, if you think you have germs on your desk, check out Heidi's cell phone." So Marvin, I did, and Heidi, look what we found on your cell phone.

COLLINS: What does Marvin know about my cell phone?

COOPER: That is your -- that's your cell phone. It's disgusting what you...

COLLINS: That's makeup.

COOPER: You have got to do something with that cell phone. All right, thanks, Heidi.

Marvin wasn't the only e-mail I received. A lot of you took me to task for my filthy office, so we decided, all right, let's see how you do. Send me an e-mail, describe to me how sparkling clean you think your home is, how germ-free it must be because you wash it all the time -- we're going to take the best e-mail story we get, put it to the challenge by sending Dr. Germ to your house, to see if it is in dire need of disinfecting. Let's just see how dirty you really are. CNN.com/360, click on the "Instant Feedback" link.

Erica Hill has got a spotless home, from all accounts, joins us now...

HILL: Spotless.

COOPER: ... with the latest headline news -- Erica.

HILL: Yeah, it would be a boring day for Dr. Germ, so we won't invite him over.

Let's move on, though, to the news of the day.

Difficult meeting for Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. They met for just over two hours at Sharon's home in West Jerusalem today. A Palestinian representative says the meeting didn't match expectations. Sharon says the Palestinian Authority hasn't followed through with what Israel sees as good intentions. The two leaders, though, say they do plan to stay in touch.

Above the Earth, hoping for a smooth sail. Today, a Russian submarine launched Kosmos 1, a solar sail spacecraft into orbit. If successful, it will show a spacecraft can make a controlled flight using the pressure of the sunlight as power -- meaning no fuel necessary.

And Batman won't be able to save Katie Holmes again. Movie database Web site IMDB reports Holmes has been dropped from the sequel to "Batman Begins." The Web site says Warner Brothers is upset that Holmes' relationship with actor Tom Cruise stole media attention away from the movie.

No idea why they'd say that, but anyway, stars Christian Bale, Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman reportedly have signed on for the sequel, but no Tomcat or Kat, I guess.

COOPER: I think they're just jealous of their love.

HILL: I think they probably are, too.

COOPER: I think so too.

HILL: And she got a nice rock out of it.

COOPER: OK, Erica. I haven't seen it. Thanks very much. See you again in about 30 minutes.

A new feature we want to tell you about -- log on to CNN.com, click the video link. You'll be able to watch video as many times as you want, any video you want, whenever you want it, at no cost. How good.

Still to come on 360, more on Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes. They're going -- well, we all know, they're going ga-ga over each other, and yeah, they're talking about Scientology. But we wanted to look at, why do so many celebrities seem to be into Scientology? It's one of the day's most popular stories. We'll bring you an angle you won't see anywhere else.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, Tom Cruise and his fiancee Katie Holmes have been getting an awful lot of exposure lately, talking about their movie and their love and about their religion. All of the exposure has brought an interesting side story, the Scientology movement. Cruise, of course, is an avid member, and he's told "Entertainment Weekly" that Katie Holmes, well, she digs it.

It got us thinking, what exactly is Scientology all about. It's been one of the popular stories on CNN.com all day. CNN's Rudy Bakhtiar joins us with an angle you won't see anywhere else. Rudi?

RUDI BAKHTIAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, Anderson.

Scientology, a controversial religion with millions of members -- some stars swearing by Scientology and they say that it has helped save their lives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): As "Batman Begins" premiered around the world, two women were spotted on red carpet after red carpet: star Katie Holmes and this woman, Jessica Rodriguez. Rodriguez is a high-ranking member of the Church of Scientology. The church says she's there because she's Katie's friend, but many observers note she was never around before Katie met her new fiancee, Tom Cruise, back when Katie was a Catholic and maybe she still is. But some people are wondering, is there another reason Rodriguez is suddenly showing up everywhere with the young star?

Katie's romance with Tom Cruise has helped to raise the church's profile. Cruise proudly singing the praises of his faith on "Access Hollywood" while promoting his new film "War of the Worlds."

TOM CRUISE, ACTOR/SCIENTOLOGIST: I know what Scientology is. It's -- let me just tell you, it's extraordinary, what it has done.

BAKHTIAR: Scientology isn't short of star power. John Travolta Kirstie Alley, Lisa Marie Presley, Juliette Lewis, and FOX News anchor Greta Van Susteren, are just some A-list Scientologists. But what is Scientology? And why does it attract so many high-profile members?

J. GORDON MELTON, AUTHOR "THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY": Scientology has offered a space where people in the entertainment industry and people before the cameras a lot can have a place to do their personal religious work. BAKHTIAR: It is, by any standard, a new religion. Founded in 1954 by science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard, the church's tenets grew from Hubbard's best-selling book "Dianetics," which claims to offer practical answers to life's complex questions.

Fifty years later, there are 5,100 churches, missions and groups in 156 different countries, serving more than 8 million members, according to the church's Web site. The site calls Scientology -- quote -- "the fastest growing religious moving on earth," which aims for a world "without insanity, without criminals, without war."

But Scientology has also been at the center of controversy. Scientology's strong stance against psychiatry and psychotropic drugs made it the subject of a lawsuit after the death of a mentally ill member who was allegedly encouraged to avoid psychiatric treatment by other Scientologists. That suit was settled for an undisclosed amount.

The church has been criticized for its high session rates, charging between $200 a week for beginners and several thousand a week for advanced training.

MELTON: Members receive personal counseling to assist them in relieving themselves of different problems that they have. Members who receive more counseling obviously will pay more than those who receive less counseling.

BAKHTIAR: Still, members say Scientology has helped them fight their addictions, make clear career decisions, and realize their unlimited potential. A Scientology spokesman says the group has much to offer its dedicated members because -- quote -- "Scientology helps people become better in their own estimation. It has practical solutions for everyday problems encountered by each of us, and it works."

To try and separate myth from fact, I decided to see for myself. I started out by taking a personality test on the group's Web site, 184 questions. For an in-depth analysis of my answers, I headed for a session at New York City's Scientology Center.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BAKHTIAR: All right, Anderson. So, I went to the Scientology Center to get my results for this test. And basically, they were very nice to me. They let me in and I told them that I just an hour ago took the test on your computer, am here for the results. They led me towards an area, a long hallway, where I could watch some video about Scientology and Dianetics, and they asked me to see a stress test, which was -- it's a resistance measure.

COOPER: You see it on -- people doing on the city blocks all of the time.

BAKHTIAR: On the city blocks, all the time. I took the test and, you know, they told me to think about something stressful and I did and the meter went up and they asked me what that was about and why the meter went and, I said, well, my father's very sick and I was thinking about that. And he said, well, we have a way to help you and offered me up a deal on lots of books and then proceeded to take me to a room where someone was going to show up and analyze my test for me.

Of course, as soon as they found out that I'm a reporter for your show, they quickly brought the president, Reverend John Carmichael, down and stopped the session. And we talked a little bit about what theories are behind Scientology and the fact that it's based on the idea of a reactive mind, meaning that you have experiences in your past life which -- not your past life, in your current life -- you have experiences that basically affect everyday living and through Dianetics, they teach you how to deal with these experiences.

COOPER: All right. Rudi Bakhtiar, thanks very much.

Coming up at the top of the hour, PAULA ZAHN NOW. Let's find out what Paula's covering. Hey, Paula.

PAULA ZAHN, HOST "PAULA ZAHN NOW": Hi, Anderson.

We're going back out to Utah to catch up on the latest developments out there where missing Boy Scout Brennan Hawkins has been found alive in a miracle of all miracles. We're going to get an update on his condition from the doctor who's heading up the team that's treating him now at a Salt Lake City hospital. Thank goodness the weather was as mild as it was. This child came through beautifully.

One of the world's most visible sister acts will also be part of the show tonight. These days, Venus and Serena Williams are doing more than playing tennis, and we will talk a little bit about how both of them did at Wimbledon today. They won their matches, Anderson, and more importantly, what they're doing outside of the world of tennis.

COOPER: They're totally cool. Paula, thanks very much. That's about three minutes from now. 360 continues in a moment.

Tomorrow night, "Make-Up Counter Hazards," part of the series, "Enough to Make You Sick."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: CNN's primetime continues now with Paula Zahn. Hey, Paula.

ZAHN: Thanks so much, Anderson.

END

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com