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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
London Investigation Update; Shuttle Launch Scrubbed; Hospital Infections
Aired July 13, 2005 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening, everyone.
Disturbing details emerging about the young men accused of killing 52 in London.
It's 7:00 PM on the East Coast, 4:00 PM on the West. 360 starts now.
ANNOUNCER: The bombing in London. Tonight, a disturbing twist in the investigation. It now appears the suicide bombers actually grew up and lived outside of London. A friend tells Anderson Cooper how he thought his friend, one of the suspected bombers, changed in recent months. Has Britain become a breeding ground for terrorists?
The scandal over the CIA agent. Tonight, the president dodging questions about the controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I also will not prejudge the investigation based on media reports.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: What exactly did Karl Rove, the president's right-hand man, do? And what will the president have to do about it?
And how solid is your marriage? The odds say one out of five husbands cheat, for wives, one out of seven.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATTI KLEIN, WIFE: I wrote him a note. I'm having an affair. I'm leaving you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Why this man chose to forgive, how he overcame the betrayal and how this couple is now helping others. Tonight, surviving infidelity.
Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
COOPER: We begin tonight with the space shuttle launch that nearly was, until it wasn't. CNN's Miles O'Brien is at the Kennedy Space Center. Miles, what happened?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, they should have been in space by now for about three hours. Instead, the Space Shuttle Discovery still on the pad.
And what happened, in a nutshell, is -- you've got a low-fuel light on your car. Well, the low-fuel light on the space shuttle failed. The sensor's located right at the base of this orange external fuel tank. As they went through the countdown, about 1:30 Eastern Time, they tested out one of these sensors, part of the drill here, and it was stuck.
And that is a big deal because these main engines here on the other side that are fed by that external fuel tank suck up fuel at a rate of about a swimming pool every 20 seconds. So you don't want to run them dry. So if the sensor, which detects if the tanks are running dry, is not working, you have a potential problem.
So what happened was, not long after they discovered that, the Space Shuttle Discovery crew, which had just strapped into their seats, made their way back to the crew quarters, a disappointing day for them after years of training. But they, of course, take it all sort of in stride. This is sort of part of the space business. Nevertheless, once again underscores the complexity of this very old space machine, the space shuttle.
Let's listen to Wayne Hale, the assistant program manager for the shuttle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WAYNE HALE, DEPT. MANAGER, SHUTTLE PROGRAM: We came out here all set to go today. We've been working really hard to be ready to go. And we incurred a problem. It was clearly a launch criteria violation. Took us about five minutes of discussion to confirm that and decided that it was time to try another day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: So what will that other day be? That's the big question right now. Engineers are huddling, trying to troubleshoot this problem. Is it a problem with the sensor, or is it possibly a problem with another box on the orbiter? They had a test here with another tank and had a similar failure a couple of weeks ago.
As you look at those live pictures, the Discovery still on the pad, they're combing through the possibilities, doing the troubleshooting. Earliest they could fly, Saturday -- quite possibly, Anderson, September.
COOPER: Miles O'Brien. Thanks. Appreciate it.
There were two camps in Washington today, the one that wasn't talking about Karl Rove to the media or anybody else -- that'd be the White House -- and the camp that was talking about him, specifically, to the grand jury investigating who said what to whom. "Time" magazine reporter Matthew Cooper was in that camp.
CNN's White House correspondent, Dana Bash, has more on what was said today and what wasn't.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There was Karl Rove, right behind his boss, waiting for the inevitable questions about his alleged role in outing a covert CIA agent. Two queries, no answer.
BUSH: We're in the midst of an on going investigation. And I will be more than happy to comment further once the investigation is completed.
BASH: Some GOP advisers were surprised the president did not offer his closest adviser and friend a vote of confidence. The White House insisted he wasn't hedging his bets, he wasn't asked.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Every person who works here at the White House, including Karl Rove, has the confidence of the president.
BASH: But this president doesn't wait for specific questions when he has something to say. The current tight-lipped strategy is a remarkable shift. Mr. Bush showed no hesitation earlier in the investigation, including this exchange in September 2003.
QUESTION: Yesterday, we were told that Karl Rove had no role in it.
BUSH: Yes.
QUESTION: Have you talked to Karl? And do you have confidence in him?
BUSH: Listen, I know of nobody...
(CROSSTALK)
BUSH: I don't know of anybody in my administration who leaked classified information. If somebody did leak classified information, I'd like to know it, and we'll take the appropriate action.
BASH: But with "Time" magazine's Matt Cooper now testifying he and Rove discussed the issue...
MATTHEW COOPER, "TIME" MAGAZINE: We worked out this waiver agreement with Karl Rove's attorney last week.
BASH: ... the White House is pulling back, letting the Republican National Committee distribute talking points to allies in Congress.
REP. DEBORAH PRYCE (R), OHIO: I think when the Democrats are doing with Karl Rove is just another politically motivated part of their agenda.
BASH: Top Bush aides insist they're not distracted by all this, but it drowned out what the president wanted to talk about.
BUSH: OMB is going to announce that the 2005 deficit is $94 billion less than previously expected.
BASH: And Rove questions are following administration figures around the world. The first lady faced one in Africa. The secretary of state as she traveled home from Asia.
MIKE FELDMAN, FORMER CLINTON ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Most of the administration's public -- public faces are out there trying to change the subject. But when an issue is this red hot and when it remains unresolved, it's very difficult to do so.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Even Bush loyalists admit what they do know about this investigation pales in comparison to what they do not. That is the source of this new-found caution coming from the White House. As one put it, at the end of the day, no matter how powerful Karl Rove may be, defending their guy means protecting the president, period -- Anderson.
COOPER: And it's only the special prosecutor who knows all the information, at this point, he's not talking. We'll be following. Dana Bash, thanks.
A little later, in fact, on 360, we're going to have a little showdown on the Karl Rove business between former Clinton adviser and now CNN political analyst Paul Begala in one corner and former spokesman for the Bush-Cheney election Terry Holt in the other. Interesting.
In England tonight, police have identified four men suspected of carrying out last week's deadly terror attack. Now, all four are believed to have been suicide bombers. And this evening, a long-time family friend of one of them talked to 360, finding it hard to believe that the person he knew for 25 years could commit mass murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IRSHAD HUSSEIN, FAMILY FRIEND OF SUSPECTED BOMBER: He had everything. His father's provided him with everything. He had the best education. And most of all, he was born in this country. And if you're born in this country, you're well looked after by Her Majesty's government until the day you die. So there was no reason, no justification from these people, who were born here, to go out and kill innocent people or kill themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: London police say that is exactly what he did. Later on 360, we're going to have the complete interview and the very latest on the terror attack investigation. (NEWS BREAK)
COOPER: Coming up next on 360, new developments in Aruba in the case of missing American teenager Natalee Holloway. A court is set to decide if the prime suspect in the case, Joran Van Der Sloot, the son of this man right here, Judge Paul Van Der Sloot, and the two brothers who've already been let go -- well, they may get rearrested, and they may let Joran out. We're going to tell you why.
Plus, remember Bobo? The pet tiger got loose in Florida. Belonged to this guy, Steve Sipek. It was killed one year ago today by wildlife officials. Bobo's owner is dealing with the loss in a surprising way. He's got some new tiger cubs. We'll show you why and what he plans to do with them.
Also a little later, "Love, Sex and Marriage," our special series. Tonight, how to survive infidelity, one woman's story, the man who forgave her. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: From Aruba tonight, what could be a make-or-break decision in the case of missing American teen Natalee Holloway.
CNN's Karl Penhaul is live from Atlanta with the latest. Karl, there are reports that this Texas search team who've been down there, Equusearch, found a grave on the island. What do you know about it?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, indeed, there was a flurry of activity, Anderson, on the north side of the island this afternoon, a place called Boca Preme (ph) that's just inside the national park, an area of very soft sand dunes there, where a dry riverbed meets the sea. And what Texas Equusearch found they described as a hole about four feet deep and a pile of sand alongside it. And so they spent part of the afternoon sifting through the sand to see if they could find any clues. Detectives from the Aruban police force also came along.
But eventually, they ruled out this site. They said this isn't connected to Natalee Holloway's disappearance in any shape or form, although what Texas Equusearch did say, and the police did say, is that it may have been used, this hole, to hold something. Equusearch speculated that it may even, in fact, have been used to hold drugs in there for a while, Anderson.
COOPER: Do you know how they found this hole? Was it through dogs or some sort of devices or...
PENHAUL: Part of their search -- they've been moving across the island in a grid pattern and looking at parts of the island that haven't been searched before. You also know, as well, over the last few days, over the last week, more or less, Dutch F-16 fighter planes have been flying across the island. They've ruled out any presence of Natalee's remains on the island at all, but it may be that this area, that hadn't been searched yet, may not have been picked up by those planes, as well, Anderson. COOPER: Got it. So let's see what happens in court tomorrow. There's talk that the Kalpoe brothers may be rearrested. They were suspects back a couple weeks ago, then they were released. Why would they be rearrested?
PENHAUL: Well, several appeals going on here, one by the prosecution to rearrest the Kalpoe brothers. Not clear why they want them rearrested. Nobody seems to suggest they represent any flight risk. But there's also another appeal by Joran Van Der Sloot's attorney to get his client released on the grounds that there isn't enough evidence to hold him. But this is being considered by a panel of three judges in neighboring Curacao. They're expected to rule by midday tomorrow, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Karl Penhaul covering the story. Thanks for us, Karl.
Still to come on 360, London terror. Tonight, a whole new dimension to last week's attacks. Why the suspects' nationality, well, is disturbing a lot of Britons. It's pretty shocking. We'll tell you why.
Also tonight, one year after his pet tiger captivated the nation, this Tarzan actor has found a new reason to carry on. We're going to revisit him, see if there truly is life after Bobo.
And a little later, surviving infidelity. Can a marriage last when the trust is lost? Some tough lessons in our special series on "Love, Sex and Marriage." We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: ... today to read a new report about what can happen to you when you check into a hospital. Here's the "Download." The report out of Pennsylvania shows that last year alone, more than 11,000 patients got infections while they were inside the state's hospitals, and nearly 1,800 of them died. Now, Pennsylvania is not the only state with a problem. It's just the only to actually publicize the numbers.
The CDC, in fact, estimates that nationwide, 2 million infections happen in hospitals each year. And get this. It leads to some 90,000 deaths. You go in the hospital for one thing, you actually die of something else you pick up there.
We wanted to know, how do you avoid becoming a victim of a hospital infection? 360 MD Sanjay Gupta, neurosurgeon, is in Atlanta with us. Sanjay, can you avoid it?
SANJAY GUPTA, MD, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think there are certainly things you can do. I mean, a lot of people are concerned about this. First of all, Anderson, no one's saying, first of all, that this is a medical error, but hospitals can be dangerous places. That's for sure. And there's some pretty bad organisms there which can cause infections. But it causes more deaths, as you pointed out, than auto accidents and homicides combined -- specifically, again, talking about going in the hospital without an infection, getting one and subsequently having problems from that.
The numbers have been going up, there's no disputing that, up 36 percent between 1975 and 1995. That's the last time they had really good reporting, and they may have gone up even since then.
Four types of infections are going to be the most common infections that we're talking about people getting in the hospital: urinary tract infection, a surgical site infection after an operation, a bloodstream infection, or pneumonia from being on the ventilator. These are the types of infections we're talking about. They are going up in number, as you point out, in Pennsylvania and around the country.
COOPER: So why are they going up in number? I mean, with these new medical technologies, you'd think they'd be going down.
GUPTA: Well, yes. I mean, there's lots of -- lots of things that are going -- we're developing better antibiotics. You know, there used to be a time when penicillin -- everything was sensitive to penicillin. But now there's hundreds of different antibiotics, and there's organisms, bacteria, that are becoming resistant to all of those antibiotics. That's part of the problem.
But as I mentioned, as well, hospitals can be dangerous places. I mean, that's where the most virulent organisms of all lie. So imagine this, Anderson. You're going to the hospital because you're sick. Your immune system may be compromised a little bit already. And you're exposing yourself to this sort of bath of all these different germs. So that can be a problem. So you know, that -- one of the messages is get out of the hospital as quickly as possible.
But there are things you can do to try and cut down, Anderson. Now, first of all, you know, we talk about washing hands all the time, you and I. It sounds like such a simple thing, but it works. Wash your hands. Also ask that your doctor or your health care provider also washes their hands. And just be informed about -- you know, bring an advocate, for example, so they can watch what's going on, especially if you're not well and able to maintain these sorts of things.
There's other things. You know, a lot of hospitals have infection control programs. Ask about that, as well. You know, just try and be as autonomous as possible as a patient to try and cut down on the number of infections.
COOPER: Easier said than done. A lot of this stuff happens out of your range. I also heard about doctors wearing neckties that carry infections, like, because no one washes their ties and they pass infections on the ties. Is that true?
GUPTA: Yes. You know, I read that same study, and that's very -- you know, I'm wearing a tie right now, which could be filthiest part of my wardrobe, as it turns out. But those -- you're -- what happens is a lot of doctors will go in there and, you know, they'll examine a patient. They may wash their hands, but they may touch their tie or something afterwards. The tie is one thing that's going from around room to room and it gets coughed on or gets sneezed on, and it's one part of your wardrobe that's, you know, usually dry clean only, so it doesn't get washed.
Interestingly, they actually looked into bow ties, as well, thinking, you know, those are just up there. Same problem with the bow ties, as well, so I'm not going to switch over to those.
COOPER: All right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Alarming news. Thanks very much. I appreciate it.
ANNOUNCER: The bombing in London. Tonight, a disturbing twist in the investigation. It now appears the suicide bombers actually grew up and lived outside of London. A friend tells Anderson Cooper how he thought his friend, one of the suspected bombers, changed in recent months. Has Britain become a breeding ground for terrorists?
And how solid is your marriage? The odds say one out of five husbands cheat. For wives, one out of seven.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
P. KLEIN: I wrote him a note. I'm having an affair. I'm leaving you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Why this man chose to forgive, how he overcame the betrayal and how this couple is now helping others. Tonight, surviving infidelity.
360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: The latest now on the London investigations into the bombings. It was a tip from one of the alleged bombers' family that led police to Leeds, England. And that's where they learned the possibility that these bombers were not only suicide attacks, but the four men who carried them out weren't shadowy, hard-to-track terrorists from abroad, they were native-born Britons.
CNN's senior international correspondent Matthew Chance, has the latest on the investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): What the U.S. feels about terror came largely from 9/11: Islamic fundamentalists from other countries sacrificing themselves to kill as many civilians as possible. That seemed to be the lesson with the London bombings, as well. But now we know in London, there's a difference. The suspects are British, educated there, with families, allegedly killing not a foreign enemy but their own countrymen.
PETER NEWMAN, INSTITUTE OF WAR STUDIES: I think this certainly is a new dimension to it because usually, what we're seeing is people attacking the other community, Catholics attacking Protestants and vice versa, people from one country attacking people from another country. These were people that grew up in Britain that are now attacking their own community and also taking other Muslim people into this mission and killing them. So this is rightly -- you rightly say that this is a novelty that you haven't seen in this country so far.
CHANCE: There is a history of British suicide bombers. Richard Reid, the shoe bomber from south London, shortly after 9/11 arrested trying to blow up a transatlantic airliner in mid-air. He had explosives in his shoes. In 2003, two British suicide bombers targeted Israelis after joining the Palestinian military group Hamas. One of their bombs was detonated in an Israeli bar, killing three.
British authorities, shocked by the London attacks, are now vowing to root out radical Islam, Prime Minister Blair calling on the Muslim community in Britain to be vigilant.
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We will seek to debate the right way forward in combating this evil within the Muslim community with Muslim leaders, and it's our intention to begin this process immediately. In the end, this can only be taken on and defeated by the community itself, but we all can help and facilitate, and we will do so.
CHANCE: But the problem of Britain's nearly two million Muslims has been growing. These riots swept some immigrant areas of Britain's north in 2001. An official report spoke of unemployment and a lack of opportunity as a cause, factors moderate Muslim organizations say are still making their youth vulnerable to extremism.
DR. DAUD ABDULLAH, MUSLIM COUNCIL OF BRITAIN: We have social exclusion. We have a sense of not feeling -- of not belonging, you see, a sense of alienation. We have alien ideas, and frustration, general frustration, humiliation. When you add the international, you know, dimension to all of this, all of these factors feed into the mindset of our youth, and we have it, you see, demonstrating itself in this outrageous behavior.
CHANCE: But it's the U.S. and British invasion of Iraq that's outraged many British Muslims, the Afghan war and the Israeli- Palestinian conflicts also high on their list of foreign policy grievances.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The upcoming election is, in fact, an act of apostasy!
CHANCE: Radical groups, say analysts, appear to offer a simple solution, channeling the anger and frustration of some British Muslims into terrorism.
NEWMAN: What can be done about it? It's very difficult. I think it needs to start with us and the way we approach these communities. We have to make more of an effort in order to integrate themselves, in order to make them part of our societies. But it goes further than that. There's also an obligation, I believe, on the part of the Muslim community to stamp out these, and to make it very clear to everyone in this community, that these radical extremists are not to be tolerated. CHANCE: It may be a problem on the national British scale now, but after the carnage of London, there's concern that the same type of terror attacks could take place on the wider international stage as well.
Matthew Chance, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, one of the suspected London bombers is a 22-year- old man named Shahzad Tanweer. His parents are from Pakistan. But he was born in Britain. And his parents worked hard. They built businesses. Shahzad actually drove around in his dad's Mercedes. There was no hint, his friends say, of the murderous thoughts police now say he acted out.
Earlier, I spoke with Irshad Hussein. He's known the Tanweer family for 25 years and he watched the accused bomber grow up.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, I know his parents have been working very hard in Britain since they came from Pakistan. They've owned a variety of businesses. Do you think it's possible that this young man who grew up in Britain, who used to drive around in his dad's Mercedes, became a suicide bomber?
IRSHAD HUSSEIN, FAMILY FRIEND OF ACCUSED BOMBER: This young man had everything to live for. His mother and father worked very hard. He had no way of going and doing what he has done, if he has done, blowing himself up and killing innocent people.
He had everything. His father provided him with everything. He had the best education. And most of all, he was born in this country. And if you're born in this country, you're well looked after by Her Majesty's government until the day you die. So there was no reason, no justification from these people that were born here to go out and kill innocent people or kill themselves.
COOPER: You know, in a situation like this -- it's early days, of course, in this investigation. And we're getting conflicting reports about what this young man was like. Some people describe him -- you know, he loved to practice martial arts. He loved to play cricket. The "New York Times" quotes a neighbor who said that when he was 15 or 16 he got all religious and started praying five times a day. They had seen a change in him. Have you seen that? Is that true?
HUSSEIN: Yeah, it was true. He has gone into the religion. I believe it was not seen as something was wrong. But a lot of young boys and girls take on Muslim after they grow to 14 or 15-year-old. There was no sign of any sort of wrongdoing in that matter.
His father is not very religious. He's very Westernized, very nice person. So, there's no way that you can connect him with his family that this will happen. COOPER: Did Shahzad change the way he appeared? Did he have a long beard? Was there anything about him on the outside that would indicate a deeper level of religious belief or practice?
HUSSEIN: No, it's difficult to say what's inside a person's mind by looking at the person -- how he's dressed. But he was very respectable, very polite whenever you see him. He didn't talk much. He keep himself to himself. And his father is a very good hard-working person. And he used to be in British police as a community constable.
COOPER: I had not heard that, that his father actually worked with the British police in the past. Have you talked to them since the bombing, since this information has come out? They must be devastated.
HUSSEIN: Yes. They probably will be. But I think what is, the police is working very hard. They're looking after the families. Going through houses, any information they can find. They will find the person who masterminded this. Unfortunately, I don't think it was four people that were been murdered and killed all the innocent people as well.
COOPER: And if for a fact it is determined that Shahzad Tanweer was one of these bombers, what will you think then? What -- does something change? How will you exchange to yourself?
HUSSEIN: Well, I think -- I've got children of my own, and we will work 10 times harder than we ever worked before. And we will get to -- regardless of who the background is, if they're going to kill innocent people, they will be brought to justice, regardless of who they are.
If we find them out, whoever they are, we will go to the police, and help the government to catch them. It's as simple as that.
COOPER: Irshad Hussein, we appreciate you joining us.
HUSSEIN: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: 360 next, a showdown over Karl Rove from the left and left. Reaction to the CIA leak story. Should Rove get a pink slip? Two sides ahead.
Also tonight, if your spouse was unfaithful, could you forgive them? Well, one man did when his wife admitted an affair. We'll tell you how he found the strength to do that. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I have instructed every member of my staff to fully cooperate in this investigation. I also will not prejudge the investigation based on media reports. We're in the midst of an ongoing investigation. And I will be more than happy to comment further, once the investigation is completed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was President Bush speaking earlier today. And as our White House correspondent Dana Bash reported at the beginning of the program, some people were surprised by the president's remarks that he didn't defend Karl Rove more vocally.
Well, there is certainly a lot of angles to this story. And as often happens in Washington, opinions are clearly divided along political lines. Earlier I spoke to Terry Holt, a former spokesman for the Bush/Cheney campaign, and Paul Begala, a CNN political analyst and former adviser to President Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Paul, were you surprised that the president didn't come to a stronger defense of Karl Rove?
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. I think it's -- I don't want to read too much into the tea leaves -- but, look, there's clearly some there, there. And it could well be that Karl -- we know that Karl misled the country and misled Scott McClellan. He said he had -- I had nothing to do with this. It might have been that Karl walked into his boss and said, Mr. President, I didn't have anything to do with this, and misled him. If that's the case, then Bush should have fired him right away.
COOPER: Terry, is there some there, there?
TERRY HOLT, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I'm not sure it's all that nefarious. The president is in a tough spot with respect to an ongoing investigation. And what he said today is just factually true, that he's in the middle of an ongoing investigation, one that the White House has cooperated with for over a year.
COOPER: But this has been an ongoing investigation for some two years. And the White House has made comments about it in the past. Why no comments now?
HOLT: Well, the comments that they made out the outset, obviously. But I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing today that we were talking about two years ago in 2003 when this came up. We were talking at that time about a CIA leak of Valerie Plame's name. That's not happened here. The White House -- Karl Rove called a reporter to warn them off of a story that now has been proven untrue. Joe Wilson said a bunch of things that just turned out not to be the case. He lied.
COOPER: You made a lot of statements there. Paul, I want to you respond to that. There are a lot of different things to respond to.
BEGALA: I feel like Roy Rogers, whoa, Trigger!
HOLT: Go, man, go.
BEGALA: You're getting way out there, Terry.
Look, Ambassador Wilson, in fact, told the truth. The president in his State of the Union told the country...
HOLT: He said that Vice President Cheney...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: The president told the country that Saddam Hussein had tried to buy yellow cake uranium in Africa. Now that turned out not to be true. Mr. Wilson went and investigated it.
COOPER: Terry, you're saying that Karl Rove was simply trying to warn a reporter of a false story. Beyond whether or not the story was false, wasn't -- I mean, the other side of it is he was -- he was really trying to discredit Joe Wilson by just saying, yes, this is a guy whose wife sent him to Africa. Isn't that kind of one interpretation?
Any senior-level official in this town deals with reporters every day. And I think that all of us understand that when you're talking to reporters, you're talking to the media, you're talking about how stories develop and what's true and what's not true and giving guidance. You have off-the-record conversations, like this clearly was. If he was out to discredit Joe Wilson, why in the world wouldn't he let the reporter use the information? I mean, that...
BEGALA: He did. He just didn't want his fingerprints on it...
HOLT: No.
BEGALA: ... And in fact, there was a lot of coverage -- it's continuing tonight in this interview -- of people trying to smear Joe Wilson, Terry.
HOLT: Paul, he said double secret background. I mean that's our euphemism for "off the record."
BEGALA: No, it's not a euphemism for off the record. The White House tried to smear Joe Wilson.
HOLT: It sure is.
BEGALA: That was what has happened here, is that -- now, we also know in the process of smearing Joe Wilson, the name of a CIA operative on weapons of mass destruction trying to protect from us the terrorists, her name was revealed and the undercover company for which she worked.
HOLT: She was a Langley bureaucrat.
BEGALA: ... was revealed. No, this did enormous damage, Terry.
COOPER: Wait a minute.
Terry, wait a minute. Let me just jump in here. I mean, whether or not you think this was a high-level CIA officer, she was a CIA officer. You know, this is a war time. This is an undercover operative who has put their life on the line to serve our country...
HOLT: I'm not sure that she is an undercover operative.
COOPER: Isn't it a little disingenuous for Republicans now to basically be defaming her and saying, you know, she was a bureaucrat. She was nothing? If a Democrat had done this...
HOLT: I'm not saying that.
COOPER: Wouldn't you be saying this is treasonous?
HOLT: I'm not saying that, Anderson. I'm just saying that according...
COOPER: You just said she's a bureaucrat.
HOLT: That's right.
COOPER: She's a woman -- she's dedicated. I mean whether or not if she's good or not or high level or not, she's serving her country.
HOLT: But a bureaucrat isn't necessarily a negative word. You might take it that way, but the fact of the matter is, that in order for this law to be broken, this person has to be a covert, undercover operator. They have a very, very high standard for breaking this law.
COOPER: She works with the deputy director of operations. She has an undercover position.
HOLT: But at the same time -- at the same time, was the United States actively trying to keep her cover secret? We don't -- we need to find out what's going on with this investigation. If there's a crime, that's one thing, but if there's no crime, then this story is all about politics.
COOPER: Terry Holt, thank you. Paul Begala, thanks.
HOLT: Thanks.
BEGALA: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Politics or not, we'll continue to follow it tomorrow. Still to come on 360, we continue to follow developments of the space shuttle. We'll bring you any developments in the next few minutes as warranted.
Also, how can you help the marriage stay alive when your partner has betrayed the trust? Surviving infidelity, part of our special week-long series.
Also ahead tonight, remember Bobo the tiger and that guy, Steve Sipek, a former Tarzan actor and his tiger was killed a year ago today, when it broke loose? Well, he has now bought two other tigers and he has big plans for them. We'll tell you what they are, ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Today's a sad anniversary for Steve Sipek, a one-time actor who sort of played Tarzan in a movie. You may remember on this day one year ago, wildlife officers shot and killed his 600-pound pet tiger named Bobo, who'd escaped from his compound. At the time, Sipek was very upset and when he spoke to 360 that night, he was still covered in Bobo's blood.
Well, CNN's John Zarrella went back to Sipek's home and found that there are two new tigers living there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Steve Sipek is a very proud papa. Two baby boys: Bo and Little Bo.
STEVE SIPEK, TIGER OWNER: Emergency. Pee-pee. Hurry up. Hurry up. You bad boy, you. You're not supposed to do it on the pillow. Hurry up -- too late. Too late.
ZARRELLA: They are, no kidding, the apples of daddy's eyes.
SIPEK: Now, where's that kissy? Where's that kissy?
ZARRELLA: A very different scene than a year ago. Sipek became the center of national attention when his six-year-old, 600-pound pet tiger, Bobo, got out of Sipek's compound in rural Palm Beach County.
After a 26-hour search in dense underbrush, state wildlife officers found, then shot and killed the tiger. Moments after, Sipek, who once played Tarzan in B-versions of the movie, appeared on this program.
(on camera): You're covered with you're animal's blood. What happened?
SIPEK: Bobo was sleeping under the brushes, sleeping all day long, because it was a hot day. A girl that owned the place found him and went and told the officers that's where Bobo is. They came upon him immediately shot him five times.
SIPEK: I never got over Bobo.
ZARRELLA: A year later, he's not gotten over the loss of Bobo.
SIPEK: The love that I had for him was enormous and I didn't ask for anything else in this world. And I though getting two new babies will take up all my time and they will. And I needed that badly. So bad, that it's ridiculous, you know.
ZARRELLA: The only way he could get Bo and Little Bo under current state law, was to obtain a commercial license. That license requires Sipek to operate as an animal exhibiter. He can't just keep them as pets. He still needs a federal license before he can fully qualify. Then, he'll open for private tours. The name -- no surprise -- "Tarzan's Big Cat Sanctuary." Bo and Little Bo join Oka (ph) the leopard, Stephie (ph) the lioness and Princess the tiger.
SIPEK: It's OK, sweetheart. You don't have to be afraid.
ZARRELLA: He's had them years. To most of us, Sipek's love for big cats may seem more than a bit strange.
(on camera): You don't consider yourself a little bit eccentric? You think people think of you that way? I mean, how do you react to that: That's Steve, I mean he's a little eccentric!
SIPEK: Well, a lot of people think I'm crazy. OK. That's true. I don't care, because what man will sleep with tigers and lions and leopards cougars and live? So, you have to be crazy, right?
Wrong. I'm not crazy, I just have too much love for them.
ZARRELLA (voice-over): It began in 1970, during the filming of a Tarzan scene. The set caught fire and Sipek says the lion he was working with, saved his life, pulling him out of the fire. But the animal he always loved most was Bobo. We walked to Bobo's grave just inside the entrance to Sipek's property. It is extravagant: Monuments and flowers and a headstone
SIPEK: Every morning I come here I say, "Good morning, Bobo,." and as though I felt I hear him say, "good morning, daddy," you know?
ZARRELLA: Does it -- do you -- it still breaks you up? I mean you're still get...
SIPEK: Yes, it does. It's never going to stop. I know that already. I already know that.
ZARRELLA: But now, he has Bo and Little Bo to keep him occupied. Whether we understand or not, this is Sipek's world.
SIPEK: When I enter them gates, you know, I become Tarzan again and if there was such a person as Tarzan, then that's me.
ZARRELLA: And this place is where he lives the role he once played.
SIPEK: I love you, Bobo. I'll always love you, Bobo. Always.
John Zarrella, CNN, Loxahatchee, Florida.
COOPER: Well, let's find out what is coming up at the top of the hour on PAULA ZAHN NOW. Hey, Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Anderson. Thanks so much.
We start off in London tonight for the latest on the new theories about who was behind the terrorist bombings there. We move on to Aruba to talk about some key moves by the judge involved in the case over the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.
And then the mystery behind a woman's cross-country trip. She's stopping to explore side roads, looking in lonely clearings after a very bitter divorce. Even stopping total strangers to ask them pretty pointed questions. What exactly is she searching for? Something no parent should ever have to find. We'll bring you her story at the top of the hour as well, Anderson.
COOPER; Thanks, Paula. About 10 minutes from now.
Coming up next on 360, can your marriage survive infidelity? It is not just the stuff of country songs, cheating. A look at how one marriage survived, and how yours could too.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: All week long, we are looking at love and marriage in America. Tonight, infidelity. For many, the path to temptation it a road well traveled. Researchers say that one out of five men have had at least one affair. For women, it's one out of seven.
Tonight, our Gary Tuchman shows us two couples who found a way to look beyond the betrayal.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Victor and Jennifer Skillings of Anaheim, California, were high-school sweethearts. They got married at 20, pregnant at 21. And like so many couples, they have not had an easy time of it.
(on camera): Was your marriage happy when it first started?
VICTOR SKILLINGS, HUSBAND: No.
TUCHMAN: How come?
V. SKILLINGS: Well, with the new baby, and my long work hours, it was very demanding. I worked a lot. And when I came home, I was expected to keep working a little more.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Jennifer says Victor wasn't pulling his weight and didn't seem to care.
JENNIFER SKILLINGS, WIFE: It wasn't what I dreamed it would be. He was acting very distant. I felt like he didn't want to be married anymore.
TUCHMAN: At work, Victor met a younger woman, a college co-ed. And then...
V. SKILLINGS: We played pool for a while, and then we went outside and started kissing. I think I liked the attention and wanted to pursue more of it. TUCHMAN: He would come home to his wife and son, but then leave without explanation to pursue his affairs.
V. SKILLINGS: Hotels and parks.
TUCHMAN (on camera): So I mean actually, you were so not afraid of being caught at that time, you would go to parks?
V. SKILLINGS: I'd go to parks right out in the middle of everywhere, yes. I'd be seen by my bosses driving by.
TUCHMAN: And you didn't care?
V. SKILLINGS: No.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Jennifer had no clue about the affair, and was stunned when after a year-and-a-half after their baby was born, Victor asked for a divorce and walked out.
J. SKILLINGS: I cried. I begged. I pleaded. I was pulling on him so he wouldn't leave. I just wanted him back.
TUCHMAN: Jennifer had no idea what to do.
J. SKILLINGS: Every night he was gone, I cried.
TUCHMAN (on camera): Were you able to function?
J. SKILLINGS: Not really, no. I had to take care of our son. I had to be strong for him. But aside from that, when he was asleep, I just pretty much fell apart.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): And that brings us to another couple whose marriage was devastated because of cheating. But this time, it was the wife. Patti Klein is the daughter of a minister.
PATTI KLEIN, WIFE: It became an addiction with me. And for a year period, I had multiple affairs.
TUCHMAN: Her husband, Jim, who was also a minister knew nothing. But once he did, he couldn't stop imagining his wife with another man.
JIM KLEIN, HUSBAND: Well, it was hugely painful. You know, just the idea that she would be doing that with anybody else was hard to face. And yet, knowing the details was just horrid.
P. KLEIN: It started out just friendly flirting at work.
Actually let me get you to member services. I'll make sure...
TUCHMAN: But for the mother of two, it was just the beginning. She craved the attention of other men.
(on camera): When did Jim find out?
P. KLEIN: When I told him. TUCHMAN: So, he didn't find out on his own?
P. KLEIN: No.
TUCHMAN: And what did you say to him?
P. KLEIN: I wrote hum a note. A Post-it Note. Wrote on a little yellow Post-it Note. I'm having an affair. I'm leaving you.
J. KLEIN: I saw the note and knew I had to do something. I mean, I loved her. That didn't change it. I still loved her.
P. KLEIN: Hello.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): That was 20 years ago. Over time, Jim would find a way to forgive Patti and take her back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here in the world of real marriages, I'm sorry, is a very necessary and often underused expression, so is the phrase, "I forgive you."
TUCHMAN: The Kleins' painful marital struggles and finally the success led them to organize a unique class where instructors help others in the same situations. The Kleins personally taught Victor and Jennifer Skillings.
(on camera): Hundreds of couples walk through these doors to participate in this program. They come with good and hopeful intentions, but most of the time, that turns out not to be enough.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And so I tend to get focused on me and my needs, wants and desires. I know there's things that I do or say to him that hurt him or make him angry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I'm going to stay married, then I have to get over that stuff. It can't be a part of our lives.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): A lesson from the heart learned the hard way. A lesson they teach over and over again. Even though it still doesn't work for at least six out of every 10 couples that come in. But the Kleins, who happen to be on vacation and away from the class for a couple weeks, believe the failure rate would be higher if the couples didn't join up.
J. KLEIN: A lot of people don't choose to patch things up. They try to go on. And we try to encourage people, no, they don't have to do that. There's a better way.
TUCHMAN: Victor moved back home shortly after he started going to the group.
V. SKILLINGS: Our second child was conceived that night.
TUCHMAN: That second child is Ashley who is now 5. Her brother is 8-year-old Andrew, who was a toddler when his father left. And now there's another toddler, 15-month-old Amy. J. SKILLINGS: He's so different. Just the way he talks, the way he looks at me, just everything is so much different than it was before.
TUCHMAN: They're 29 now. But they hold fast to advice the Kleins once gave them when it seemed all was lost.
J. KLEIN: The kind of person you're going to become is the kind of person your spouse can fall in love with all over again.
TUCHMAN: Words Jennifer and Victor try to live by.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: Make no mistake about it, getting back together after one spouse has cheated is not for everybody. Some people just can't stomach the idea. But for those who want to keep the marriage going, group type settings are often very useful, according to the experts. You're not so lonely -- Anderson.
COOPER: Great piece, Gary. Thanks very much.
That's it for 360 tonight. Thanks for watching. "PAULA ZAHN NOW" is next. Hey, Paula.
END
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