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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

London Police Hunt Failed Bombers; New York Police Start Random Bag Searches; Guantanamo Visited

Aired July 22, 2005 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

HEIDI COLLINS, GUEST HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Thank you, Lou.
Good evening, everybody. London police are on a manhunt. It's 7:00 p.m. on the East Coast, 4:00 p.m. in the West. 360 starts now.

Some video, there you see in New York of police searching bags. We're going to talk more about that tonight.

Good evening to you once again, everybody. Welcome to 360. I'm Heidi Collins sitting in for Anderson Cooper.

Four bombers two weeks ago in London. Four at least yesterday. Tough questions to ask tonight. How many more bombers are there? And can we really keep mass transportation safe? How do we fairly decide whom to search? And a big question to bear in mind as we go along, can a society be both free and safe?

On July 7th in London, what four bombers left behind were bodies, their own and those of 52 commuters. Yesterday, and weeks later, four other bombers tried for a murderous repeat performance. Fortunately, they failed. What they left behind were clues and their images caught on tape.

CNN's senior international correspondent Nic Robertson reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Four security camera images of four suspects. The quick-to- emerge leads in the London bombings rushed out, because the men are still on the loose.

ANDY HAYMAN, METROPOLITAN POLICE: The image we're now showing shows a man running away from the northern line at the Oval Underground Station at approximately 12:34 hours yesterday.

ROBERTSON: Precise information of what the four men linked to the bombings did, laid out in detail.

HAYMAN: A device was left at the rear of the top deck of the Route 26 bus. The image that's now showing of the third person we want to identify, shows a man leaving Warren Street on the ground.

ROBERTSON: Significantly, the image of the fourth man, revealing him carrying a backpack before the attack.

HAYMAN: He was wearing a dark shirt and trousers, and was later reported to be wearing a white vest

ROBERTSON: Even as police gave this briefing, the fast-moving investigation gathering momentum in the streets of London. Armed police and bomb disposal experts, raiding properties believed connected with the attacks. And only a few hours earlier, police shot and killed a man in Stockwell Tube Station, a mile from the site of one of the failed attacks. They say he was under surveillance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I looked to my right, sort of run on to the train, he was running so fast, he half tripped. And bang, bang, bang, bang, bang -- five shots.

IAN BLAIR, LONDON POLICE COMMISSIONER: As I understand the situation, the man was challenged and refused to obey police instructions.

ROBERTSON: Police later confirming he was not one of the four bombers, launching an aggressive appeal for information about the four men whom they warn are extremely dangerous. Police are making some connections between the deadly attacks two weeks ago and the bungled bombings this week. Not clear if that includes what they've learned about the botched bombs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this stage, it is believed that the device consisted of homemade explosives.

ROBERTSON: Police arrested one man in Stockwell connected with the botched attacks. Not confirming, though, if he was one of the bombers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (on camera): Although the rapid pace of developments does indicate that the police are making progress in this investigation, they warn, however, that to get to the people behind the attackers who supported them, that could take quite a long time -- Heidi?

COLLINS: Nic, what is the reaction, if you know, of the people in London to the man that was shot by London police? Not calling him a suspect, of course. But we know he did not obey police commands to stop.

ROBERTSON: Well certainly in the Muslim community, and certainly among the young people in the Muslim community in the Stockwell area, one of their community leaders told me that people were angry. They said the young man had said to him why wasn't this man shot in the legs? Why was he shot, apparently, according to some witnesses, at least, in the head?

Certainly, people in London are very concerned and anxious as they go about their train journeys. They do want to know that the police are out there trying to catch the attackers. But certainly, in some parts of the community it raises fears and concerns -- but particularly among the Muslim youth -- that there potentially could be a shoot to kill policy, and that worries them, Heidi. COLLINS: All right. Nic Robertson, live tonight. Thanks so much, Nic.

We know how four particular people in London feel today -- hunted. But what about the rest of London? What was it like riding public transportation there today?

CNN chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour takes the pulse of a tense city.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yet again, Londoners faced with the evening commute back home, mounting anxiety, but still undeterred.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not really scared, but you are hesitant. It's just natural, because you know that people are trying to kill people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm kind of trying not to use the Tubes as much. I'm trying to go on the bus, and although that's not exactly safe either.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just slightly nervous, but not too bad. But I'm being more aware, I think, have a mobile phone on me, and move as fast as possible through the Tube system, and carry on with my life.

AMANPOUR: The attacks in this city seem to have affected everyone one way or another. Chris Martin, a television producer, was on the platform reading his newspaper when the shooting took place at the Stockwell Tube.

CHRIS MARTIN, TELEVISION PRODUCER: To the right of me, it just seemed like a bundle of guys shouting, came through on to the platform, I thought they threw someone on to the train. Whether they were chasing someone onto the train, I don't know, but it looked like a whole lot of guys went on to the train. Then there was a shout, get down, get down, and then three shots. I heard three shots, someone said there were more, but I heard three gunshots, muffled gunshots, and then some one shouted get out of here, get out of here. And then there's that horrible feeling, you know, God there's a bomb going to off or something's happened, and everyone just turned and ran down the station and up the steps.

AMANPOUR: What did you think of that, that somebody has now been killed in relation to this?

MARTIN: You kind of take -- it's a hard thing, isn't it? I suppose you just hope that they're doing their job properly and that it wasn't any form of accident or anything unnecessary. But people are worried and people are edgy, you know. So more people say to me, anyway, they say, well, you can't expect that we just operate like this in the world and we're immune to anything, it doesn't happen to us, it happens just over there in Baghdad or Gaza or Israel. You know it's part of what's happening and we're part of it. And it's, you know -- and it's come home. And that I think is the reality.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And, of course, today, we've been hearing even this evening, just a few minutes ago, sirens as the police continue to race through this city, and to try to continue their manhunt. They've urged the people, the communities to give them whatever information that they have. They've told people if they recognize the suspects who have been caught on the closed-circuit television to call the emergency numbers for the police, not to approach them themselves. But they really are, as they said today, urgently calling on the people and the public to help them with this investigation and to bring the suspects in -- Heidi?

COLLINS: All right. Christiane Amanpour tonight. Thanks, Christiane. We spoke a little bit earlier tonight with Shane Brighton of the Royal United Services Institute, a defense and security think tank in London. We talked in-depth about the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice over): Today, police make one arrest, they shoot and kill a man who may be linked to Thursday's attacks, and they release photos of the would-be bombers. All indications this investigation is moving very, very quickly.

Your take on things as they stand?

SHANE BRIGHTON, ROYAL UNITED SERVICES INST.: Well I'd confirm your take, I think. I mean, what's happening is that the investigation is moving very fast. Clearly, there's a large amount of information that was gleaned from the failed attacks yesterday that police are acting on. They are releasing very little to the public of what's going on. I think the fact that there was the shooting this morning indicates that the alert state within the security services and the briefings they're receiving are such that there's a clear and present danger of bomb attacks on the Underground and they're having to act very decisively indeed to stop that danger to the public.

COLLINS: What are your thoughts on which information do we have at this point that could link these suspects with the other four suicide bombers of two weeks ago?

BRIGHTON: I think the key information and the most direct link would be the way in which the devices that were found yesterday were made, and the kind of explosives that were being used.

One theory -- and it's yet to be confirmed or denied -- is that this may have been the same batch of TATP explosive. It's a homemade explosive, a reasonably sophisticated one that was used in the 7/7 bombings. It may be, because that kind of explosive is time sensitive and its potency drops off as time goes on, that it was made from that batch, it's gone by its sell-by date, as it were, and it's now not potent, and that's why the bombs didn't go off. That would be a direct link with the early attacks. COLLINS: What about the suspect that police shot today? This was a pretty exceptional measure by British standards. Do you think it might be possible that they regret having gone that far, simply because, they could have gotten quite a bit of information out of this person, if indeed he ended up being a suspect in the bombing?

BRIGHTON: Well, they've expressed a general regret that somebody had to lose their life in that situation. But I think if you look at the context, what happened was -- apparently this man was verbally challenged, he was told to stop, he ran from the police team that were pursuing him, he jumped over a barrier, and he managed to get himself into a crowded Tube train. At that point, I think they had to make the decision that there was a clear danger to the public, and they had to do what they had to do.

COLLINS: Yes, understood. We don't know who the police killed today, but if he was one of those four would-be bombers, what effect could this have on the remaining suspects still at large?

BRIGHTON: Well it's difficult to know. They have said that there is a link to yesterday's incidents with regard to the man that was shot this morning. The nature of that link is not something that they've offered any more information on, so one can but speculate.

My suspicion is, given the psychology of these people, generally, that one of them losing their number would just confirm their determination to carry out attacks. These are people who see martyrdom as part of the operation. It's simply par for the course for them, so they certainly wouldn't be dissuaded from continuing to attack if they had the capability to do so.

COLLINS: Shane Brighton, thank you.

We should point out, there's something very strange about the images coming from London these days. The police in the pictures we've been seeing are heavily armed. Ordinarily, London's bobbies aren't armed at all, except with nightsticks. Only 440 of the city's 31,000 police officers and detectives are authorized to carry guns.

Erica Hill from HEADLINE NEWS joining us now with some of the other stories we are following tonight. Hi, Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, Heidi, good to see you.

We start off with a story sort of just breaking at this point, CNN learning now the Pentagon will get sole authority to shoot down civilian aircraft that violate restricted air space.

Actually, you're looking at a picture of Egypt now. That is because there has been a blast in Egypt. We're going to tell you a little bit more about that. This is a story that's breaking at this hour. In the Egyptian tourist resort of Sharm el-Sheik -- that's what you just saw on the map there -- two other blasts as well in a nearby resort. A total of three blasts, we're learning, in Egypt.

We don't know of any possible casualties at this hour, but this is, again, a story that CNN is following. And we'll continue to update it as we learn more. But again, three blasts right now in Egypt.

Meantime, in other news, in New York, the federal government filing a motion to block the release of 87 still photos and four videotapes of alleged abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. The Justice Department says the items could harm individuals. Some of the images have already been leaked to the media. That happened back in April, leading, of course, to headlines around the world. The ACLU and other organizations have sought for full disclosure in a Freedom of Information lawsuit.

In Santa Ana, California, the death sentence for Alejandro Avila. Avila was convicted earlier this year of kidnapping, molesting and killing 5-year-old Samantha Runnion. The jury recommended the death penalty today. A judge endorsed that recommendation. He was ordered to be sent to San Quentin prison within 10 days.

Near Sunflower, Arizona, a massive wildfire jumps the highway, where firefighters were trying to stop it. In this fire so far, 65,000 acres have been destroyed. At least 350 homes evacuated.

Across the West, 32 large fires are now burning; nearly 4 million acres have gone up in flames. It's been quite a summer, and, of course, not done yet, Heidi.

COLLINS: Yeah, hate to see those pictures.

All right, Erica, thanks. We'll see you again in about 30 minutes.

360 next now, breaking down the bombs. A look inside the tools of terror. They could hold the keys to finding the London attackers. Tonight, a bomb expert shows us the clues.

Also tonight, an invitation to Gitmo. CNN's cameras get a rare look at Camp X-Ray. Are the prisoners being tortured, or treated humanely? See what we've found out.

And a little later, a summer survival quiz. Mosquitoes, bees and ticks. What to do if you're stung or bit. The answer is surprising.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Tonight, nearly 8 million commuters are getting used to a whole new way of traveling in New York. Today, the NYPD began conducting random searches of bags and backpacks. The new policy covers the city's entire transit system. That includes more than 6,000 subway cars. The aim -- to stop terrorists before they strike.

And in London, police aren't just looking at bags, they're looking at bombs. Yesterday, since the terrorist bombs in that second attack failed to explode, experts are examining them for clues to catch the bomb makers.

Tonight, a bomb expert tells us what they are looking for.

Joining us from Washington tonight, Malcolm Brady, a retired assistant director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

Mr. Brady, sources are telling CNN that they believe yesterday's would-be bombers may have used a homemade explosive called TATP, something you know as the Mother of Satan? What is it?

MALCOLM BRADY, RETIRED ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, ATF: The Mother of Satan or TATP is a chemical concoction of triacetone triperoxide, and it's a substance or a combination of acids and acetone and home Drano. It's common materials you can buy any day at any store, and then you have to engineer them to make the explosive device, which can come from that. A very simple process in itself.

COLLINS: Homemade. The explosives were used in yesterday's attack, but they obviously failed. Any theories that you might have as to why?

BRADY: There's probably two theories. One is you've heard earlier tonight that the age -- the material has aged itself. The second (ph) is that the material itself was not of a good substance that was produced. I suspect that it did not have enough boost into it to explode. So that would be my conjecture on it.

COLLINS: The worst bombing on July 7th, happened on the tube between King's Cross and Russell Square, some 70 feet below ground in that 11-foot-wide underground tunnel. If yesterday's bombs, though, had detonated, we would have seen the same kind of damage, wouldn't we?

BRADY: Absolutely. They were, I suspect, from the information I've been able to gather and correspond with some people, the information we're receiving is they're the same devices, the same bombs, and would have caused as much damage, or even maybe more, particularly in the Tubes.

COLLINS: Witnesses to yesterday's attacks were told to immediately turn off their cell phones, because cell phones can be used as detonators. How does that work exactly?

BRADY: It's a high probability that they were used as detonating devices. And you have one receiving telephone unit, a cell phone, planted into the device itself, and you activate it -- or the person activates it from another cell phone at a different location. So they can do it through an alarm system, or they can do it through activation. It's a very popular device that is used now with IEDs in Iraq and some of the other countries, including Afghanistan.

COLLINS: Well, all right, Malcolm Brady, thanks so much for your time tonight. Appreciate it.

BRADY: Thank you.

COLLINS: And moving on now. We want to tell you more about inside Gitmo. CNN's cameras go inside for the first time. Are detainees being treated right?

Also tonight, subway searches in New York City. Is it effective and will more cities be doing it soon?

Plus, in London, the hot pursuit for the terrorists. Are investigators close to making arrests?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: This week, Congress moved one step closer to making the Patriot Act a permanent part of our lives. Yesterday, the anti-terror bill was approved in the House. The Senate votes in the fall. The purpose of the Patriot Act, to prevent terrorist acts in the United States.

Right now, many suspects are held at Guantanamo Bay in a prison named Gitmo. The Pentagon says they are being treated humanely. Others insist many victims are tortured.

Last month, President Bush challenged reporters to visit Gitmo to get the full picture. And CNN's Ben Wedeman took him up on the offer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The invitation from the president himself.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These people are being treated humanely. There are few prison systems around the world that have received such scrutiny as this one. And for those of you here who have doubt, I'd suggest buying an airplane ticket and going down and look -- take a look yourself.

WEDEMAN: So we did, spending four days visiting Guantanamo Bay.

Our military escorts took us to camps one and four, set aside for so-called compliant detainees, those who obey the camp's posted rules and regulations. The most compliant are given white clothing and deck shoes, plus playing cards, books, chess, backgammon and checkerboards, even access to books.

The somewhat less cooperative are given tan outfits. And some of least compliant, out of sight behind this fence, wear orange uniforms -- their only permitted diversion, the Koran. And across the board, flat denials prisoners have ever been abused.

COL. MICHAEL BUMGARNER, U.S. ARMY: The policy here is no abuse. I can't state any stronger that that it is not allowed, and that it is not a part of our procedures here.

WEDEMAN: Being fluent in Arabic, I was hoping to have some contact with the detainees, but that's strictly forbidden. I was able to overhear snippets of conversations in Arabic. I heard two inmates say they missed each other in Arabic with heavy Afghan (ph) accents. The two men were unaware reporters were present.

And in the hospital wing, one prisoner shouted in English, we take the torture in here. It wasn't possible to talk to the prisoner about his allegations. According to the ground rules for reporters, all videotape must be screened by an employee of the Defense Department, who erased any of our video showing detainees' faces or profiles. We were told this was done to protect detainees and their relatives from reprisals in their home countries.

Lawyer Clive Smith represents some of the detainees here. He describes media visits as a propaganda stunt.

CLIVE SMITH, DETAINEE LAWYER: It's simply not true to say that this is a Club Med where everyone is treated well. You know, I'm not saying the people are unpleasant folk in any way. They're not. They're quite pleasant people doing terrible things.

WEDEMAN: It certainly isn't Club Med for the young men and women guarding Guantanamo.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our biggest problem has been recently the throwing of feces and urine. And, yes, the cocktail No. 4.

WEDEMAN: Cocktail No. 4 is what the detainees themselves call a noxious mix of sperm, spit, fecal matter and urine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, I can tell you that many of the detainees that I deal with day in and day out want to kill me, they want to kill you. They have told me point blank when I leave here, I will kill every American that I possibly can until I myself am killed.

WEDEMAN: Even critics of Guantanamo agree, there are some very dangerous detainees. But with the media restrictions, a journalist accepting the president's invitation to get the full picture of what's happening here may be on a mission impossible.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS (voice-over): Shock waves, what terror in London means to security here. Police now randomly checking bags on New York subways. But who gets searched and why?

And fact or fiction, the best way to remove a tick, use a match. And a best way to repel mosquitoes, DEET? Tonight, the 360 summer quiz. 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Two weeks ago in London, the day after was a day of mourning and of shock. But this day after with four unexploded bombs and four suspects is more a day of hot pursuit.

CNN senior international correspondent Matthew Chance reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): They're the four would-be bombers now hunted across Britain. But none of them, say police, the suspect they shot dead on a London subway train.

Once again, security cameras putting a face on the terrorists.

The first image is of a man running at the Oval Station in south London. He's wearing a dark sweatshirt, the words "New York" written across it.

The second, a man who police believe left his device on a London bus. Like the others, it only partially exploded.

The suspected Warren Street bomber in central London is pictured next.

Then, the man police believe traveled to Shepherd's Bush in the city's west, to plant his bomb.

HAYMAN: Do you recognize any of these men? Did you see them at the three underground stations or on the bus? Did you see them at a different location? Did you see these men together before or after the incident? Did you see them with anyone else?

CHANCE: But it was in Stockwell, in south London where the first shots of London's latest war on terror were fired. Police gunning down a man directly linked, they say, with their investigations. Terrified commuters could only look on.

MARK WHITBY, WITNESS: Yeah, I was sitting on the Tube train. They hadn't pulled out of the station at this time. The doors were still open. I heard a lot of shouting, "get down, get out."

I looked to my right. I saw a chap run onto the -- onto the train, an Asian guy. He run onto the train. He sort of -- he was running so fast, he half sort of tripped. He was being pursued by three guys, one had a black handgun in his hand, left hand.

As he sort of went down, some of them sort of dropped on to him to hold him down, and the other one fired. I heard five shots.

QUESTION: Was that in front of or on the train?

WHITBY: I was about maybe four or five yards along from where this actually happened. I watched it. I actually saw it.

CHANCE: At Friday prayers, Muslim leaders have been appealing for anyone with information to step forward. But there are accusations here of a police shoot-to-kill policy that's fueling tensions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They shot him about five times, and that wasn't right. That's not right, man. That is not right.

CHANCE: London is a city on edge, still shocked from the carnage earlier this month, when 56 people were killed in bomb attacks across the city. Police say the intention of Thursday's attempted attacks was to kill again. And as the British capital edges nervously forward, police say they've made one arrest in connection with the bombings in Stockwell where the shootings took place. Details are sketchy, but this British investigation does appear to be gathering pace.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE: Well, Heidi, these have been dramatic developments in London, in what is turning out to be again a very rapidly developing police investigation. There's still no clarification yet, no confirmation on the identity of that individual who has been arrested in Stockwell in the south of London. No indication at this stage whether he is one of the four bombers now being urgently sought around the country by the police.

COLLINS: All right, Matthew, thank you for that. Those four bombs failed to go off in London yesterday, and yet, even unexploded, they sent shockwaves. Some of the many affected are London's 1.7 million Muslims, not to mention Muslims in the U.S., who worry about the backlash of guilt by association.

CNN's Jonathan Mann reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN MANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In an immigrant neighborhood of east London, a young Muslim man with a bag on his shoulder. His name is Islam. Nineteen-year-old Nakib Islam said he was sickened by the transit attacks and does not know anyone who would support them. He says a dangerously misguided minority is causing even Muslims enormous pain.

NAKIB ISLAM, MUSLIM STUDENT: The worst enemy of Muslims today are Muslims themselves within the community. And all we can do -- I mean, we can try and find these people. And it's a duty to all Muslims around the country, around the world, to find these people, flush them out.

MANN: In Leeds, home town to several of the bombers who killed 52 commuters earlier this month, local leaders say mosques have to reflect local values.

ASHAD CHAWDHRY, LEEDS MUSLIM FORUM: What we are trying to do is work with the mosques and ensure that we have home-grown imams. Because you know, it's absolutely absurd, of having an imam imported from 6,000 miles away, somebody who does not speak a word of English.

MANN: Across the Atlantic, one American Muslim said community leaders are not to blame.

DAISY KHAN, AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR MUSLIM ADVANCEMENT: What they're doing by actually coming out and condemning the acts immediately and systematically, internationally as well as domestically in the U.S., is they are basically drawing a line in the sand. They are saying, you know, this is antithetical to Islam. MANN: But some Muslims are not only determined to address terrorism, they are afraid. In the U.S., Muhammed Khalil recalls how another American minority community fared in another time of crisis.

MUHAMMED KHALIL, NEW YORKER: My biggest fear like one day you look out there, and they're in a concentration camps like Japanese after -- during the Second World War, you know. That's one of the things -- like a lot of people think about it.

MANN: In London Friday, police shot and killed a young man in an incident they described as directly linked to the ongoing anti- terrorist operation. But some Muslims didn't believe the police account.

ABDUL MILAD ALI, GRAPHIC DESIGNER: I had phone calls from different parts of London, friends calling up, saying, don't leave. Don't go anywhere. Don't do anything.

It's just outrageous.

NAZMUL HOQUE, SOFTWARE ENGINEER: That, I think, really is scary now. I think the community is really scared now.

MANN: The fears on both sides are real, but governments in London, Washington and beyond, and the Muslim community as well, are all determined that the West has a place for Islam.

Jonathan Mann, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: 360 next, the nation's transportation system on high alert. How attacks in London have changed our commute. We'll take a look at one extra security measure: Police searches already in New York and could be heading to a city near you.

Also tonight, the summer survival. Can you pass the bug bite quiz? First, true or false, DEET is the only effective insect repellent available? And true or false, the best way to remove a tick is to burn it off?

Answers coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: As you know, the bombings in London two weeks ago also shook up the U.S. Immediately after the explosions, transit systems across the country were put on orange, or high alert. Chances are, you've seen some of the extra security.

Now New York City has taken it a step further. Officers here are randomly searching bags and personal items of commuters. Perhaps it's a sign of things to come in cities throughout America.

Earlier, I discussed the new security measures with Jan Ting, a law professor at Temple University, and former New York Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik. I started by asking them how the searches work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERNARD KERIK, FORMER NYPD COMMISSIONER: In most capacities, they have a supervisor on site that will be announcing by bullhorn that there is a search being conducted, a random search. They'll have officers on site that will be standing next to sitting tables. People will be chosen. Normally, they'll identify -- they'll pick a schedule, so to speak: every third person, every fifth person, every person with a red jacket, every person with a white shirt. And they try to do that to keep the searches really random.

But they also have the right to choose and pick anyone at their discretion if they look suspicious. They then, the person -- as the people walk by these tables, they stop them. Say, do you mind if I look in your package, and your bag, whatever they have? They open it. They take a look in it and go about their business. You know, and it takes -- it could take anything from 15 to 90 seconds.

COLLINS: OK. Mr. Ting, do you think these searches are overdue?

JAN TING, TEMPLE UNIVERSITY LAW PROFESSOR: I think they're fine. I think the London bombings kind of remind us that we need to be doing more here. I think they're absolutely fine. I think there will be widespread popular support for them.

COLLINS: All right. What about what the public has been told, Commissioner Kerik? Watch out for people wearing heavy coats in the summer? Or unattended bags. Can't the terrorists figure that out and then just sort of change their tactics?

KERIK: Well, they do. And you know, the problem with us as a nation, is we're constantly reactive. You know, after 9/11 and the planes hit the towers and the Pentagon and Shanksville, we spent an enormous amount of money on the airline industry security, not focusing as much on mass transit.

Ten times more people ride mass transit. It's an enormous target. So it has to be focused on. We have to be vigilant. People have to look at these normal things that stand out. But the terrorists are going to change their focus of attack as we change. And, you know, they're watching CNN right now and they're looking at what we're doing. And they'll pick another motive to get in and slip through one of the cracks.

COLLINS: Another issue here. I want to read you something that the New York Civil Liberties Union -- they released a statement today and it says this, "one of the dangers of random searches is that they can invite the possibility of racial, ethnic, or religious profiling. The plan is not workable, and will not make New Yorkers more secure, but will inconvenience them as police go about finding a needle in a haystack."

Could these searches really lead to profiling?

KERIK: It is sort of a profiling. It's a criminal profile. You're looking for people carrying devices. It's not about race. It's about somebody that can slip through the cracks. Technology may not pick them up. A bomb dog may not pick them up. We need to make every effort we can physically to keep this subway secure.

COLLINS: Mr. Ting, the last word from you, any concerns about civil liberties here?

TING: Well, I think the civil libertarians need to remember the story of the little boy who cried wolf. They've been crying wolf too many times. They're telling us the sky is falling. And I think there really isn't any problem. The danger is there is a role for civil libertarians and the ACLU in our society, but that time that we need them isn't quite here yet. And I think by sounding the alarm too soon and too often, they're in danger of making themselves irrelevant.

COLLINS: Jan Ting, Bernard Kerik, gentlemen, thank you.

KERIK: Thank you.

COLLINS: Erica Hill from HEADLINE NEWS joining us now with some of the day's other top stories. Hi, Erica.

HILL: Hi again, Heidi.

CNN has learned the Pentagon will get sole authority to shoot down civilian aircraft that violate airspace. A Pentagon official says a draft agreement was drawn up after Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff suggested the authority be clarified. And he made that suggestion after a Cessna aircraft violated Washington airspace in May, leading to the evacuation of government builds, including the White House and the Capitol.

Beirut, Lebanon, a powerful explosion in a parking lot in the city's entertainment district. No deaths were reported, but many were injured from flying glass and debris. There's been a string of bombings in Lebanon, targeting anti-Syrians, starting with the assassination, of course, of former prime minister Rafik Hariri back in February. Hours before today's blast, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had laid a wreath at Hariri's grave.

Well, in Germany a small plane crashes and burns near Parliament. Just about 800 feet actually from the lower house, 650 feet from the chancellery. The pilot was killed. Police believe the crash was an accident. German chancellor, Gerhard Schroeder was not in the chancellery at the time.

And in London, filmmaker Roman Polanski wins a libel suit against "Vanity Fair" magazine. It was over an article which accused the director of propositioning a woman on the way to the funeral for his wife, Sharon Tate. Tate was murdered in 1969 by followers of Charles Manson. Today's ruling awarded Polanski the equivalent of $87,000.

And Heidi, that is the latest from Atlanta at this hour. I'll hand it back to you. Have a great weekend.

COLLINS: All right. You, too, Erica. Thanks. 360 next now. Stung by a bee, bit by a tick? What to do if an insect strikes? Take our summer survival quiz to find out.

Also tonight, it might be the best sun-block on the planet. You can buy it anywhere except in America.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Spending too much time in the sun can give you much more than a sunburn. According to the American Academy of Dermatology, one out of five Americans will develop skin cancer during their lifetime. The best way to reduce the risk is to wear sunscreen. But to buy the most effective sunscreen, one that also protects against wrinkles, you'd have to hit the black markets.

360 MD Sanjay Gupta explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Everybody knows you're supposed to protect yourself against the sun. But in order to best do it, get this, you may need to do something that is technically illegal. Deborah Abrahams who lives in Miami is ready to go do that.

DEBORAH ABRAHAMS, HIGH RISK FOR SKIN CANCER: I have had pre- cancerous moles, atypical removed surgically, about three or four of them.

GUPTA (voice-over): Not surprisingly, she wants the best product available to help. The problem is this, she can only get it on the black market. It's called Mexoryl.

DR. JOEL KAUFMAN, DERMATOLOGIST: Mexoryl is believed by most to be the best mid-range UVA blocker that we have available today. Unfortunately right now, it's not available in the United States.

GUPTA: It's been available in Europe for over a decade. But only a few here in the United States know about it, or can even get their hands on it. That's because...

KAUFMAN: Selling a medication that is not FDA approved is illegal in the United States.

GUPTA: Now the truth is the FDA is unlikely to track you down and prosecute you. In fact, what is actually illegal is the promotion and marketing of the product.

When we called the FDA, here's how they put it, "any product that contains Mexoryl in it at this point would be an unapproved new drug and therefore in violation of the FD&C act if it was being marketed or promoted for an unapproved use in the U.S."

The Europeans, on the other hand, think of sunscreen as a cosmetic. There are far fewer rules and regulations. So what is the magic of Mexoryl? Many of the sun screens today may do only half the battle. That is they may only fight UVB rays. What is missing, and this is important, is the fight against UVA rays. UVB can cause a sunburn. But UVA rays are easy to forget, after all, they skip right past the skin's surface and go straight to your collagen, they cause these, premature wrinkles and they also interfere with the very DNA of your skin. That is a set up for cancer. Which is why some consumers and enterprising dermatologists seek out Mexoryl.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I buy it at a dermatologists' office in Miami. I found out about it because my mother uses it is. She gets her supply of the Anthelios at her dermatologist's office. So she visits her dermatologist and she'll buy supplies to last her a long time.

GUPTA: And she's not alone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are buying it from doctors' offices, plastic surgeons, dermatologists, general practitioners even.

GUPTA: We found out that you can go to the Internet and get it as well. Even without FDA approval, word is getting out.

CAROL FADER, MANAGER, BOYD'S MADISON AVE: I hear that is the drug that is not approved. But it has been approved all over the world and Canada. And I understand that it is going to be approved very shortly.

GUPTA: And as things stand now, L'Oreal, the company that markets Mexoryl is working with the FDA for permission. But the FDA won't say why it's not yet approved Mexoryl.

So if you're not comfortable breaking the law, here's some things you can do besides avoiding the sun, or investing in that wide brimmed hat. Read the label, you're looking for Parsol 1789, write that down. It is one of the only UVA blockers approved currently. Make sure to combine it with a good UVB blocker. Also Zinc Oxide and Titanium Dioxide protect the skin by physically blocking both UVA and UVB. And whatever it is, use it every day, even if you're not at the beach and even if the sun's not out. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: If you think you can't get a sunburn on a cloudy day, think again. Here's the "Download". According to the American Academy of Dermatology, 80 percent of the sun's ultraviolet rays pass directly through the clouds and straight on to your skin.

360 next, another plague of summer, those pesky bug bites. They're practically unavoidable, but do you know how to treat them? We'll dispel some commonly held myths, take our bug bites quiz, after this.

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COLLINS: Okay. So you're outside, enjoying a summer night out, and you get bitten by a bug, a mosquito, a wasp or even a tick. Would you know what to do? Well before you apply your mother's special treatment, you might want to listen up. Some of what you heard about bug bites might not be true. Joining me from Atlanta to dispel the myths, is CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen. Elizabeth, number one, true or false, DEET is the only effective insect repellent available?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That one is -- let's give the viewers a few seconds -- it is false. And the reason it is -- there you go. See, hear the ding. The reason it is false is that for the first time in years, the government is now recommending or now suggesting that you can use two alternatives. One is called Picaridan, and that's been used in other countries for years. That's a manmade repellent. There's also oil of lemon eucalyptus, which is available in some sprays and lotions if you want to use something plant based, there's a good idea.

Now DEET is still good and safe and effective, there's just two others ones you can use as well.

COLLINS: So of those might smell a little better too. All right, second. When trying to soothe an itchy insect bite or a sting, ice is a good solution. True or false?

COHEN: Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock. That is true. And the reason that is true, is that ice can give you a little bit of relief. And so what you want to do is you want to use it on your skin for about 15 minutes once an hour for about six hours. But make sure you put, like a little paper towel or something, some kind of a barrier between the ice and you so that you don't get freezer burn on that bite.

Now, if the ice is not quite cutting it, you can also try things like hydrocortisone creams. Those can work. There are also oral drugs you can take, like Benadryl, it it's really bad, but don't give that to a child under the age of one.

COLLINS: Ok. Next one, now, removing ticks. The best way is to burn off the tick like with a match, I guess, or something. True or false?

COHEN: I bet most people can guess that this one is false. First of all, you could burn yourself, and that would be bad. Second of all, when you burn it, you could also increase the risk of getting an infection -- eww, there are the little critters -- that can lead to lyme disease. Now another thing that apparently some people, I haven't met any of these people, but some people like to put Vaseline or nail polish on a tick bite. That's bad because it will take hours for the little bug to suffocate underneath the Vaseline or the nail polish. So don't try that at home.

What you want to do, is you want to take a very fine set of tweezers and you want to tweeze the little critter as close to your skin as possible. Now, Heidi, I hate to get disgusting here, but some people are worried because some of the bug's mouth parts get left on the skin even after you tweeze it off. Don't worry, the mouth parts are not what's going to hurt you. Don't worry if some of those stay on there. COLLINS: Yummy. Number four, with bee stingers you should not try to remove them by pulling them out by the stinger, actually pulling out the stinger itself, or squeezing the bite. Is that one true or false?

COHEN: That one is actually true. You should not try to do it that way. Basically, bee stings, you want to treat very differently than the way we just talked about treating when you have a tick on you. What you want to do is take your fingernail and just try to scrape it off a little bit.

COLLINS: Oh!

COHEN: Yes, eww. This poor guy. I don't know who that is. But yes, that looked pretty vicious, but if you take a tweezers, what you're going to do is you're going to get that stinger further into the skin possibly, and it's certainly going to release some of that venom into the skin. And you don't want to do that.

COLLINS: Definitely not. And I seriously don't want to see that video again. All right. The reason bugs bite us in the first place is because they just like the taste of blood. Is that true or false?

COHEN: That one, you know, I have to say, I thought that was true when I first heard that question. I thought it was maybe a bit of a gastronomic issue but apparently it is not it is false. The reason why they sting us is that the blood is actually useful to them. If you want to talk about, I have a couple of little factoids here. When a female mosquito bites you, that blood gives them the protein they need to lay their eggs.

Even though the mosquito bites are annoying, think about how much you're helping to perpetuate the species. So that's the reason why the like to bite us. It's because our blood is useful to them. It is food. It helps them perpetuate the species.

COLLINS: Well, Elizabeth, this was fascinating. Thank you so much for helping us out with it. We sure do appreciate it.

COHEN: Have a happy summer.

END

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