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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Families Confront BTK Killer; Cindy Sheehan Leaving Crawford; Violence Escalates in Gaza; De Menezes Shooting

Aired August 18, 2005 - 19:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening, everyone.
Facing a killer in court, the family members of BTK's victims come face to face with evil.

It is 7:00 p.m. on the East Coast; 4:00 p.m. in the West. 360 starts now.


(voice-over): The BTK killer comes face to face with his victims' families:

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This man needs to be thrown in a deep dark hole and left to rot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This world would have been much better off had your mother aborted your demon soul.


COOPER: Tonight, the stunning courtroom confrontation, and the chilling confessions of a killer. Scores of Israelis kicking and screaming, holed up in a synagogue, refusing to leave the place they call home. Will the Gaza withdrawal bring peace or spiral to a vicious cycle of violence.

Police mistake a man for a terrorist and shoot him point-blank. Tonight, what split-second decisions led them to pull the trigger, and would you be able to make the right decisions in a life or death situation?

ANNOUNCER: Live, from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.

COOPER: Good evening.

It is not often that we come face to face with evil; not every day that we see and hear a killer confessing to crimes so brutal, so sick, they're almost impossible to contemplate. Today, we saw the face of evil. This face, the face of Dennis Rader, the bland unremarkable man, a man with a wife and children, a man who stood in that courtroom today and spoke of the unspeakable things he has done.

Dennis Rader murdered 10 people, people he called projects. Today, he was ordered to serve 10 consecutive life sentences. It is the maximum penalty allowed by law -- 175 years in prison. Rader will not eligible for parole for at least 40 years. If alive, he'll be 100 years old then.

It was a stunning day of testimony from Rader and from the families of victims. And, frankly, we here debated about how much to cover this monstrous night. We don't want to give him the publicity that he clearly craves, but we think it's important to hear this story, to bear witness to victims' lives and to remember their survivors' pain.

We begin tonight with CNN's Chris Lawrence, in Wichita.


UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: I would ask that you stand, Mr. Rader.

CHRISTOPHER LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two days of grisly testimony, seemingly right out of a horror movie, culminated in the sentencing of Wichita's BTK killer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd just like for him to suffer for the rest of his life.

LAWRENCE: Victims of Dennis Rader -- daughters, husbands, sons, and mothers -- given their moment to confront the man they call a monster.

CARMEN OTERO MONTOYA, JULIE OTERO'S DAUGHTER: Although we have never met, you have you seen my face before. It is the same face you murdered over 30 years ago, the face of my mother, Julie Otero. I will not address you as Mr. Rader, because mister is a word of respect, as in "Mister can you help me?" Not "Mister, are you going to kill me?"

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have some afterlife scenarios for him on the day he dies. Nancy and all of his victims will be waiting with God and watching him as he burns in Hell.

STEPHANIE KLINE, VICKI WEGERLE'S DAUGHTER: My mother begged for her life; yet he showed no remorse. He saw that she had a family and a little boy, right there in the house with her, yet he continued with his sick plan. I ask you today, Your Honor, to show no remorse for him.

LAWRENCE: Rader's detached facade appeared to crack while listening to some of the testimony; at times wiping away tears. Many family members left the courtroom before Rader could address the court. In his rambling testimony, he compared the lives of some of his victims to that of his own.

DENNIS RADER, BTK KILLER: She would have been a lot like my daughter at that age. Play with her Barbie dolls. She liked to write poetry; I like to write poetry. She liked to draw; I like to draw.

LAWRENCE: The confessed BTK killer issued many thanks during his statement, even to the police. But he also pointed out details he felt were inconsistent during the hearing.

RADER: Everybody knows Rader has to complain a little bit. So I would like to do minor ones, not because I want to complain today, but I want to set the record. This is my last time...

LAWRENCE: Rader said he would face up to the man himself.

RADER: Now that I've confessed, put myself out to let everyone know what's going on, I expect to heal and to have life. And, hopefully someday, God will accept me.

LAWRENCE: In his final statement, Rader apologized to the victims' families, saying there is no way he could ever repay them.

Chris Lawrence, CNN, Wichita, Kansas.


COOPER: If you were watching it live, he was stunning to watch on television. Court TV news correspondent Jean Casarez was actually in the courtroom during today's sentencing. She joins me now from Wichita, Kansas.

Jean, what was it like sitting in that room, hearing all of that?

JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV NEWS: Well, Anderson, I thought it was going to be emotional, but I didn't believe how emotional it truly was.

Under Kansas law, during victim impact statements, they cannot directly address the convicted. They only address the judge, the court. All rules were broken today, starting with Julie Otero's daughter. She looked at Rader, and she addressed him. She looked at him, he looked at her, and that set the standard, and everybody -- almost everybody -- looked him straight in the eye as they told him what they thought of him.

COOPER: And when he was speaking, at times he seemed - I mean, he was rambling; you know, he speaks in that monotone; he had tears at one point; he quoted from the Bible. He seemed like he was giving sort of a retirement speech, almost.

CASAREZ: Right, around here everybody thought it was like at the Academy Awards acceptance speech he was giving. Many of the members' families, they left the courtroom, just as was said in the story. They weren't going to stick around to have the respect for Rader to hear what he had to say, but he kept going and going. I thought the judge would stop him, but he didn't. He allowed him to speak for as long as he wanted.

COOPER: And how, what does he in person -- what is he like? I mean, what does he look like? Often television, it's hard to tell. We've all seen these pictures. Being in the same room with him, what is his aura like?

CASAREZ: I sat very close to him, and I just kept studying his hands, which were the hands I knew had strangled so many. His clothes are very big for him. I think these are his suits, and he's just swimming in his clothes. He was very still through this entire sentencing, but yet I felt he was enjoying it. He had shackles on his feet, but they were not tight shackles, so he was able to cross his legs, sit however he wanted. But he took a lot of notes, and I was not surprised that he reprimanded the prosecution for various points he believed were incorrect in the sentencing . I saw him take notes. I thought he was going to do that.

COOPER: It was a remarkable day, a horrific day. Jean Casarez, we'll talk to you a little bit later on in the program.

You know, it is so startling to look at Dennis Rader. He is just a guy; he could be your neighbor. Really, the only thing remarkable about him are the sick and twisted fantasies that are in his head, fantasies that he acted out for decades - slowly, methodically stalking strangers, people he just happened to see on the street. Don't be fooled by the man that you saw today, the monotoned (ph) murderer. When he was only known by the initials BTK, he eluded capture for three decades and forced an entire community to live in fear.

CNN's Jonathan Freed tonight on the murderer living in plain sight.


JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dennis Rader has lead a double life for 30 years, managing to hide in plain sight. Since police accused him of being Wichita's infamous serial killer, the BTK strangler, people who know him are struggling to figure out who he really is.

DEE STUART, MAYORAL CANDIDATE, PARK CITY, KANSAS: This is a man that we knew as our compliance officer, the man I would speak to at city hall. I don't know that man.

FREED: Dee Stuart is a former city counselor in Rader's home of Park City, just north of Wichita. She used to see Rader around city hall, where they would give each other a friendly wave. Rader worked as the compliance officer, telling people to put their trash cans away; and working as the dog catcher.

Stuart is running for mayor, and a few days before he was arrested, Rader stopped by her house to inform her, some campaign signs were illegally placed.

(on camera): When he rang your doorbell last week, would you have let him in?

STUART: Yes, absolutely. He wasn't BTK, he was Dennis Rader. He was somebody I knew. FREED (voice-over): Rader is known for being a real stickler with rules, which was after all his job. But some say, he overdid it. One neighbor felt harassed by Rader and his rulebook. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were doing it for 13 years, just like a normal thing. You know, I'm glad it's over. I don't care if he's BTK or what, he's gone. He's not going to bother me anymore, so that's good for me.

FREED (on camera): We're trying to answer the question, who is this guy? What's your impression of him?

DANNY SEVILLE, ATTORNEY: He didn't like to lose.

FREED (voice-over): Danny Seville is a lawyer who challenged Dennis Rader in court a few years ago.

SEVILLE: He was very, very focused on winning.

FREED: So focused, Seville says, that Rader had prepared an inch-thick document, complete with photos for a couple of $25 dog fines.

SEVILLE: I can see him kill a dog in a heart-beat. I mean, he was a dog catcher, and he seemed very cold, very meticulous.

FREED: Rader was recently elected president of his church, a Lutheran congregation, now stunned -- unable to comprehend that the Scoutmaster, husband, and father of two might be the murderer they've been praying for years would be caught.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was kind of a soft spoken person, a person who people respected, and he was there. He responded to people, I saw him interact with people every Sunday morning in church, in a very positive, healthy way.

FREED: Many here feel, regardless of whether or not he's found guilty that the accusations have already taken away the man they knew.

STUART: This is black magic. It's there. He's there; and then he's gone.

FREED: Jonathan Freed, CNN, Wichita, Kansas.


COOPER: You know, we have got a number of E-mails from you at home asking what exactly happens to Rader now that we saw him leaving the courtroom, but where does he go? Here is a 360 Download: Now that he's been given 10 consecutive life sentences, he is being transferred from a jail near the courthouse in Wichita, to the El Dorado correctional facility -- that's it right there. Now, that is routine, and, in fact, that's where all men entering Kansas's prison system go first. He's going to be evaluated for 30 days, and it is up to the Kansas Department of Corrections to decide where he'll go, where he will end up. He could be sent to any maximum security prison, anywhere in the United States.

With all the attention that has been paid to Dennis Rader today, it is, we think, important to keep in mind his victims, the people whose lives he destroyed -- little children, women, men. He didn't even call them people; he called them projects. They were people who were loved dearly by their friends and families, and today, they were remembered in court.

And tonight, we remember them here: 38-year-old Joseph Otero was a boxer, he was a pilot, enjoyed playing the bongos. He was porn in Puerto Rico, came here as a little boy in the United States. Dennis Rader killed him in his home with his wife and two children on January 15, 1974. His wife, Julie, was 34 years old. Everyone said she was outgoing. She was popular. She had five kids. Everyone said she was a lot tougher than she looked. Nine-year-old Joseph Otero II, everyone called him Joey. He was the baby of the family; although he was so young, he said, he already had some girlfriends just at 9 years old. 11-year-old Josephine Otero, what Dennis Rader did to her is simply unspeakable. A sixth-grader, she was a painter and an artist. Moments before she died, when asked Dennis Rader what would become of her. Dennis Rader said to her - and I quote - "Well, honey, you're going to be in heaven tonight with the rest of your family.

21-year-old Kathryn Bright, she was -- a cousin of hers says that they would spend weekends at their grandparent's place. She said when she thinks of Kathy - she still often does - she thinks of laughter. Dennis Rader killed her April 4th, 1974. 24-year-old Shirley Vian, she liked to sing, was in the church choir. She was the mother of three. Dennis Rader killed her at her home March 17, 1977. Her three children were there. 25-year-old Nancy Fox was a secretary at a construction company, worked at a jewelry store; she liked to crack jokes. Rader killed her December 8th, 1977. 53-year-old Marine Hedge, she was a petite woman from Arkansas; loved to shop, they said. She was a great cooker, her neighbors and friends recalled. Dennis Rader killed her April 27th, 1985. 28-year-old Vicki Wegerle, a mother of two, she volunteered as a baby-sitter at her church. Rader killed her September 16, 1986. Her two-year-old son was home at time. He survived. 62-year-old Dolores Davis, known as Dee. She was a grandmother, a secretary. She retired just months before Dennis Rader entered her life and killed her January 19, 1991.

Ten victims, we remember them all tonight.

We are going to bring you a lot more of today's startling testimony. In a few moments, we are going to speak to the prosecutor on the case, as well as a famous forensic psychiatrist, really about what is going on inside, and what has gone on inside this man's head for the last three decades.

We also want to know what you think about this case and the coverage? Do you think Dennis Rader's actions warrant all the attention from the news media that he has gotten today. Send us an E- mail going to, and click on the instant feedback link. It's a question, frankly, we've been wrestling with all day, as well. I want to read some of your responses later tonight.

We are following a number of other stories right now: The last stand in Gaza, synagogue standoff today, Israeli soldiers clashing with Israeli settlers who are refusing to leave Gaza. We'll have the latest in a live report from the Mideast. Also ahead tonight: Cindy Sheehan suddenly says she's leaving Crawford, Texas. We'll tell you why, just ahead.

And the families of the victims come face to face with the BTK killer. We'll have more, what they have to say - you can hear it for yourself.

We'll be right back.


ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Just a couple of hours ago, a surprising announcement from Cindy Sheehan, the anti-war protester camping in Crawford, demanding to meet again with the president. Now she is leaving, heading to California. CNN's White House correspondent Dana Bash is in Crawford.

Dana what happened?

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, she actually got some bad news just a couple of hours ago. She got a phone call that here mother, Shirley Miller Los Angeles, had a stroke. So she came before the cameras with her sister, who has been here all 12 days, here in Crawford, Texas, to say that they're going to go to be with her by her side.


CINDY SHEEHAN, SON KILLED IN IRAQ: We just had a terrible phone call, my sister and I. My mom just had a stroke. So we'll be going back to Los Angeles. I'm going to assess the situation. If I can, I'll be back. If I can't, I won't be back, but I will be back as soon as possible. Until then, we have other Gold Star moms here, Gold Star family members, military families speak out, and they'll continue the mission while we're gone.


BASH: Now, you just heard Cindy Sheehan say that she'll try to come back, but she's not sure because they really left as soon as they got that phone call. But almost immediately, Anderson, we got some press releases -- one press release from her public relations firm saying that Cindy's mother's illness won't change the agenda at Camp Casey. That is exactly what they're saying here at Camp Casey tonight. They are trying to make it very clear that the people who are left here are going to try to go on with what they are trying to do. As a matter of fact, some mothers had already planned to and continued on with a walk from here over to the security checkpoint of President Bush's ranch with some letters that they wrote to Laura Bush, saying, Mother to mother, we want you, Laura Bush, to tell your husband to bring the troops home.

But, Anderson, there's no question that Cindy Sheehan constantly says, this is a movement bigger than her. At least temporarily, this could test that - Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, it certainly will test that. We will see. We'll be watching the next couple days. Dana Bash - thanks very much.

360 next, the exodus from Gaza continuing very dramatic today. Settlers refusing to leave, protesting at a synagogue, leading to some violent clash with the soldiers. We'll show you that. Also tonight, judgment days, BTK killer learning his fate and hearing from the victims' families. You'll hear for yourself what they have to say. And London police shoot a suspected terrorist pointblank in the head. Have they got the wrong man? Tonight, how could it have happened. Author reveals how split-second decisions are really made, and often made wrong. We'll be right back.


ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: You know, it's a thin slice of land - 25 miles long, six miles wide -- but Gaza is tonight overflowing with tears and tension. Thousands of Jewish settlers, who claim they have a Biblical right to be in Gaza are being forcibly evacuated out of the occupied territory. It is an emotional exodus, to say the least. It is pitting Jew against Jew, and today, the standoff centered in and around the synagogue.

CNN's John Vause has more in the world on 360.


JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For two days, this had been evacuation by gentle persuasion, but not at Kfar Darom, one of the first Jewish settlements in Gaza. Two-hundred protesters had barricaded themselves inside the settlement synagogue. When they refused to leave quietly, riot police forced their way in. Some came out kicking and screaming; many wearing prayer shawls. Police women carried out young children. But the last determined holdouts were on the roof.

From behind razor wire, they threw not only eggs and paint, but also some type of acidic mix. Policemen and women came running from the building, many in pain, others stripped down to their underwear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We think it's a mix, water with acid with paint, and all kind of stuff.

VAUSE: A water cannon forced protestors to back off as police on ladders cut through the razor wire; others reached the roof in shipping containers hoisted by cranes. Few, if any, of these protesters actually live here. Most had sneaked into the settlement weeks before coming from the West Bank and Israel. They chose a synagogue for the violent confrontation because they believe God promised Gaza to the Jews, and to leave is to defy his will.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jewish people standing in front of us and cry and pray and take him out from the synagogue. It's a very, very hard thing. It's one part of our -- part of our symbol in Israel, the synagogue. It's a very holy place.

VAUSE: This holy place, for the best part of a day, was a place of violence. But now, it too, has been cleared, like almost all the Jewish settlements in Gaza.


COOPER: John, what is the situation right now? How many people are left? What's the scene?

VAUSE: Pretty much, Anderson, almost 70 percent of the settlers, we're told by the Israeli army and the Israeli police, have, in fact left Gaza. They're trying to evacuate the remaining few settlements before Shabbat begins at sundown tomorrow. There is about three settlements slated for evacuation tomorrow. They are small settlements. There will be more to come on Sunday, and in the coming days. The Israeli government now hopes to have all of this wrapped up by Monday. That would be six days to evacuate the Gaza Strip, the same amount time it took them to take Gaza during the war in 1967 - Anderson.

COOPER: John, it's been a long day, remarkable images, remarkable reporting today -- thanks.

The BTK killer comes face to face with his victims' families.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This man needs to be thrown in a deep, dark hole and left to rot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This world would have been much better off had your mother aborted your demon soul.

COOPER: Tonight, the stunning courtroom confrontation, and the chilling confessions of a killer.

Police mistake a man for a terrorist and shoot him point-blank. Tonight, what split-second decisions led them to pull the trigger, and would you make the right decisions in a life or death situation? 360 continues.


ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Today, the sentence of BTK killer Dennis Rader was by no means a surprise. He confessed, The death penalty didn't apply. We all knew he would spend the rest the rest of his life in prison.

Today's sentencing did give Rader's families' victims a chance to speak, to let out years of sorrow and anger, and their unfathomable pain. They stood face to face with the man who killed and tortured their loved ones.


CARMEN OTERO MONTOYA, JULIE OTERO'S DAUGHTER: Everyone knew you didn't mess with Joe's family. I'm sure you could feel his love for his family as you took away his last breath. You are such a coward.

KEVIN BRIGHT, VICTIM'S FAMILY MEMBER: The only thing I wish was different is that when I wrestled the gun from him, that it would have gone off, and that would have been the end.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy's death is like a deep wound that will never, ever heal. As far as I'm concerned, Dennis Rader does not deserve to live.

STEPHANIE KLINE, VICTIM'S DAUGHTER: My mother begged for her life, yet he showed no remorse. He saw that she had a family and a little boy right there in the house with her. Yet he continued with his sick plan. I ask you today, your honor, to show no remorse for him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sitting here before us is a depraved predator, a rabid animal that has murdered people, poisoned countless lives, and terrorized this community for 30 years, all the while relishing every minute of it. As such, there can be no justice harsh enough, or revenge bitter enough, in this world at least, to cause the pain and suffering which a social malignancy like this has coming. If I embrace bitterness, I remind you that you are nothing but a despicable child murdering, cowardly, impotent eunuch and pervert, masquerading as a human being.


COOPER: Well, Rader spoke as well, monotoned (ph) rambling -- at times, his statements were simply bizarre. Let's listen.


DENNIS RADER, BTK KILLER: I think that all points to accountability and full responsibility now, and my remorse, I think it's here. I know the victims' families won't ever be able to forgive me, and I hope somewhere, deep down, eventually it will happen. What has happened is what I would say, not a at one time. Part of me always thought -- only had thoughts that compartmentalize. That is probably as the state showed today was the compartmentalization of it. And that has been my biggest wreckage (ph), back and forth. I'm not proud of that. It's just this escape mechanism, defense mechanism.


COOPER: Around the office today, we kept asking ourselves, I mean, how could Rader have gotten away with this for so long? How could he live with his wife and kids and none of them know? What was his thought process? What was actually going on in his head? We decided to assemble a panel of experts, all have very different points of view.

From Wichita, Court TV News correspondent Jean Casarez. She was in the courtroom today. Also from Wichita, psychologist Howard Brodsky. And from Irvine, California, forensic psychiatrist Dr. Park Dietz. All of you, appreciate you joining us.

Dr. Brodsky, let me start off with you. Rader, I mean, he seemed to be comparing himself to his victims today. Let's play some of what he said. Let's listen.


RADER: She spent time on her grandparents's farm. I did too, as a kid. I have many, many, many fond memories of that. And I took that from her. She went to Valley Center. I was at Valley Center High School. For two years I walked the halls, probably were in the same line, shared maybe the same teachers, although they would have been older. She worked at Coleman (ph)


COOPER: I mean, it's sick in a way to hear him comparing himself to the people he killed. Why is he doing this?

HOWARD BRODSKY, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, it's very bad judgment for him to do it, obviously. But it seems like there's no core of a personality here. He just adapts to different settings with different personalities. Whatever the demands are on him, he just shifts his personality in order to fit it.

COOPER: Dr. Dietz, I also -- I mean, he talked about how he tricked his victims often before he killed them. Let me play this for you.


RADER: Dishonesty? Definitely. Dishonesty probably the first thing to the people that I encountered. They trusted me that I was going to tie them up, take their money and leave. And then I killed them.


COOPER: It seems odd that he's sort of hung up on the dishonesty. I mean, that, of all the things he did, you know, that doesn't seem -- in the scale of things all that, you know, much?

BRODSKI: Yeah, I think he was going through kind of a tick list of all the different kinds of things he's been accused of having problems well. And certainly, dishonesty, disloyalty is one of the things.

And he did do that to his victims. He lied to them, gained their confidence in order to allow him, allow Rader to tie them up. And once he tied them up, he took full advantage of them and killed them.

COOPER: Dr. Dietz, let's have you weigh in here?

DR. PARK DIETZ, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: I think he's just trying to speak about the things that are easy for him. He's anxious during this. He wants to make himself sound more human. He's not very organized. And the thing that he doesn't want to do is talk about the fact that this is all about perverted sex. That's the hard thing for him to talk about. That's the hard thing for the victims to hear, and it's the hardest thing for the public to focus on.

Everybody wants to talk about all the rest of it, but the truth of the matter is that we can't know people's secret sexual thoughts. The church didn't know his, his wife didn't know his, and in every state in the union, there are lawsuits today claiming the church should be able to tell which people are sex offenders. You can't tell that by looking at people or talking to them.

COOPER: Dr. Dietz, I mean, some of the things that he -- I'm not going to go into detail, because they're just too disgusting. But you know, photographing himself bound up in his victims' clothing? What is going on -- what has been going on in this man's head?

DIETZ: Yeah, well, I wrote a book about that with some colleagues years ago. He's not the first to do things of this sort. He has got multiple perversions, and that has to do with which things over the years came to be sexy for him. In the same way that normal men find certain things sexy and certain things a turnoff, so does he. But the stuff he finds sexy is way out there. It's abnormal.

COOPER: And what he wants to do to these people is just horrific.

Jean, you were in the courtroom during his speech. I'm sure you were not only watching him but the victims's families. I mean, they walked out at some point.

JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV NEWS: Yes, yes. A vast majority of them walked out. There were a lot of vacant seats in that courtroom. He was talking to them and to the court. But you got to remember why Dennis Rader was speaking at that moment. The judge hadn't sentenced him yet. He wanted the lowest sentence possible, and that's his purpose. So if he's talking about his dishonesty and going on, he's trying to explain to the judge why he should not get the maximum here.

COOPER: Dr. Brodsky, he used to call his victims "projects." Not even human beings, not even people. Today, he talked about them praising them at times. Let's listen.

BRODSKY: And today, yeah, he did talk about praising them. He's trying to ingratiate himself with his audience, whether his audience is the judge to get a better sentence, or just that he knew that the world was watching and that he wanted to ingratiate himself in the world.

And I agree, he is trying to avoid people coming to grips with the very dirty deeds that he's done.

COOPER: Dr. Dietz, there were a few moments during his speech today when he referred to himself really in the third person. I want to play one them for you.


RADER: And I suppose in all the time, as Rader -- everybody knows Rader has to complain a little bit, so I would like to do some minor ones, not because I want to complain today but I want to set the record. This is my last time.


COOPER: I mean, what is that about? Is that distancing himself from it or what?

DIETZ: That's exactly what it is. I've had serial killers spend three days talking to me about themselves in the third person. Other experts have said, they must be insane or have multiple personality because of it. It only means they want to distance themselves. It's easier to talk about -- in fact, police use that as an interrogation procedure, to invite people to speak about themselves in the third person. It's easier.

COOPER: Jean, you were in the courtroom the last time he spoke. Did he seem different today?

CASAREZ: Yes, he did. When he spoke at the end of June, it was very matter-of-fact, no emotion whatsoever. And for whatever reason, he did have emotion today. Even when the victims were speaking, I sat very close to him in the courtroom, and he did have tears in his eyes. What they meant, I don't know, but there was much more emotion today.

COOPER: Jean Casarez, Court TV News, appreciate you being with us. Dr. Park Dietz as well, and Dr. Brodsky as well, Howard Brodsky. Thanks very much. It's a fascinating discussion.

Coming up next on 360, inside the case. We'll talk with one of the prosecutors who helped seal Dennis Rader's fate. Find out what it was like for her inside the courtroom today.

Also tonight, a fatal shooting in London days after the bombings. We were told then the man could have been a suicide bomber. Now we know otherwise. New details on a terrible, terrible mistake.



RADER: If you've read much about serial killers, they go through what they call the phases. That's one of the phases they go through, is a trolling stage. Basically, you're looking for a victim at that time. And that could either be trolling for months or years, but once you lock in on a certain person, then you become stalking. And there might be several of them, but you really hone in on that person.


COOPER: That was Dennis Rader last month, calmly, a little sweating there, describing how like an animal he would stalk his victims. Trolling, that's what he called it.

My next guest is the prosecutor who helped put this guy away. Kim Parker is the chief deputy district attorney. She joins me now from Wichita. Kim, thanks very much for being with us.

You know, a lot of people watching Rader today said his speech sounded like he was taking a final bow. He thanked police, he gave the prosecutors some pointers, some criticisms. What surprised you about his testimony as you were in the court today?

KIM PARKER, CHIEF DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: That he remained self-centered. Truthfully, it's not really a surprise. In light of all the evidence that I've been aware of for some time. I'm not sure that that was a surprise, because he's always exhibited that. It's all about Rader.

COOPER: You know, how did you work on this case? I was reading some of the details of what this man did to some of his victims, to the children, to, you know, to Josie Otero, 11 years old. I couldn't read the details of this. I mean, it's just horrific. How did you deal with this every day, reading this kind of stuff?

PARKER: You know, I've been prosecuting for a long time, and you know, I focus on the victims's lives and how they live them, and that I have a responsibility to ensure that they are honored by this process of justice that we go through. And that's what I focus on and recognizing how disturbing and graphic it is. You never really, if you're a person of heart, you don't become desensitized to it. It's just that you change your focus and you make sure you go after justice for the loss of their lives.

COOPER: Was justice done today? I mean he -- why wasn't he eligible for the death penalty?

PARKER: Well, because Kansas did not have a death penalty in place at the time these murders were committed and that's why. And currently, right now, our death penalty law is in question again with the Kansas Supreme Court and certainly -- hopefully when people look at individuals like Rader, they will understand the necessity of having a valid death penalty in their state.

COOPER: You know, Kim, one of the victim's family members today said that they hope they put Rader in a deep, dark hole. Do you hope he's put in the general population in whatever prison he's sent to?

PARKER: You know, I don't -- I just want him to go away. I don't want to see him. I don't want to hear him. I don't want to hear about him.

COOPER: Will he be put in general population?

PARKER: Eventually, it depends on the secretary of corrections, they have the ability to decide what is the most appropriate for his conditions or terms of incarceration. And if necessary, they'll isolate him.

COOPER: Kim Parker, appreciate you joining us. I know it's been long day. Thanks, Kim.

Erica Hill from Headline news joins us right now with some of the day's other top stories. Erica, hey.

ERICA HILL, CNN "HEADLINE NEWS": Hey, Anderson. Good to see you. We're starting off tonight in Ohio. The governor, pleading no contest to breaking state ethics laws by failing to report nearly $6,000 in free golf outings and other gifts. Governor Bob Taft did avoid jail time, but he was slapped with the maximum $4,000 fine in court. He apologized, saying he failed to live up to the expectations he requires of state workers and the expectations of the people of Ohio.

In Cologne, Germany, Pope Benedict, back in his home land reaching out to young Catholics, now. Hundreds-of-thousands of young followers from around the world have gathered for the 20th World Youth Day. On this, his first foreign trip, Benedict also plans to reach out to Jewish and Muslim leaders.

And before we let you go, Anderson, I heard word that the worm was a little wacky and kind of tough for you the other night and for some reason I can't hear you. So, don't go anywhere.

COOPER: Uh, oh.

HILL: There you are.

COOPER: Can you hear me now?

HILL: You're back.

COOPER: Can you hear me now?

HILL: Yes. So -- Can you hear me now?

COOPER: Can you hear me now?

HILL: So, we're not going to do the phone commercial, because I know the worm hit you guys in New York and it hit us in Atlanta, too. And I just found out that apparently, you were caught on tape. So, I thought maybe we could take a look at it real quick.


COOPER: Are the phones working? Ugh! We're cut off! We're cut off!


HILL: It was almost believable too, by the way.

COOPER: Well, you know what's funny -- because Jeanne Moos aired that in a piece she did and it -- she just put in, "we're cut off, we're cut off," and it made it look like I was serious or something.

HILL: I knew you weren't serious.

COOPER: All right. I hope so.

HILL: My grandmother knows, too. She's good. She watches every night. COOPER: All right. Erica, thanks. We'll see you again in about 30 minutes. Coming up next, tonight: London police shooting. A suspected terrorists, but they got the wrong guy. He wasn't a terrorist at all. He wasn't even a suspect. Tonight author Malcolm Gladwell reveals how split-second decisions are really made.

We want to know what you think about the BTK sentencing and all the coverage. Do you think Rader's actions warrant all this attention from the media, including us? E-mail us or go on to CNN.COM/360, click on the instant feedback link.


COOPER: When police in London shot a man they thought was a suicide bomber, leaked reports said the man was wearing a bulky coat in the heat of summer and he jumped a turnstile, then he ran from police. Apparently none of that was true. "ITV News" has obtained new details about last month's point-blank shooting and these new details come from newly leaked documents into the investigation about what happened. ITV's Dan Rivers picks up the story of the fateful day, with the police honing in on a man as he leaves his apartment for the subway.


DAN RIVERS, ITV NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Jean Charles left the flat and made his way to the bus, he was tailed. An officer in the second surveillance, codenamed Hotel One, reported hearing on his radio that Jean Charles had got off the bus here in Brixton at 9:47, only to report at 9:49.

(on camera): By 10:02, Jean Charles had got off the bus to go into the tube here at Stockwell. He was being followed by several members of one of the surveillance teams. Each had a code name with the prefix "Hotel" and then their own unique number to identify themselves.

(voice-over): This is what one surveillance officer, Hotel One, says as he followed Jean Charles into the tube: "I could see one of my colleagues, Hotel Nine, on the escalator in front of me. I walked onto the platform and stepped onto the train through the single open door. I was immediately aware of Hotel Three sat two seats to my right facing the platform."

We've uncovered many more details about what happened in the carriage on July 22nd. Jean Charles boarded the train through the middle doors. He paused, looked left and then right and then went to sit down in either the second or third seat facing the platform.

The surveillance officer codenamed Hotel Three, followed him onto the train and sat de Menezes' his left-hand side. We know there were several members of the public on both sides of the carriage. We also know from the documents, there were at least two other undercover surveillance officers in the carriage. One, Hotel One, was here by the single door. Another, Hotel Nine, was near the double doors where Jean Charles had boarded. About 10 or 15 seconds later, Hotel Three saw four men moving along the platform. "I immediately identified theses as armed police officers, probably from SO19 and decided to identify the male in the denim jacket, who I followed on to the tube, to them as they appeared to be looking into the carriage as if searching for someone."

Hotel Three immediately stood up and walked to the carriage doors: "I placed my left foot against the open carriage door to prevent it shutting. I shouted 'He's here' and indicated to the male in the denim jacket with my right hand. I then heard shouting which included the word police and turned to face the male in the denim jacket."

The officer claims that Jean Charles then stood up and walked towards him within a few feet: "I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both of my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side. I then pushed him back onto the seat, where he'd previously been sitting. I then heard a gunshot very close to left ear and was dragged away on to the floor of the carriage."

(on camera): But what's crucial to understand is that the firearms officers only actually saw Jean Charles for the first time just a few seconds before they shot and killed him. It was the surveillance team who had followed him and identified him to those firearms officers.

We must remember, those in charge here only had a few minutes to make a decision, but we now know that decision was fundamentally flawed.

Dan Rivers, ITV News, Stockwell.


COOPER: Well, Dan Rivers' report from ITV News was based on leaked police reports.

You got to feel for police. They do not want to make mistakes, of course. They're called upon to make split-second decisions of life and death. Author Malcolm Gladwell is author of the book "Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking." He studied how police and how all of us make split-second decisions every day. I talked with him earlier.


COOPER: So in this man, British police shoot a Brazilian man they think is a suicide bomber. What do you think went wrong?

MALCOLM GLADWELL, AUTHOR, "BLINK": They begin with a framing error, and that is that -- the assumption is made at the very beginning that the person, the suspect, the person you are looking at is a criminal. And once you decided someone is a criminal, it allows you to reinterpret all kinds of behavior that would otherwise be innocent or ambiguous as being problematic.

COOPER: And that's often a decision that's made in the blink of an eye?

GLADWELL: In the first instance. Here in England, they make a decision because this man is coming from an apartment that is under surveillance as a possible home for terrorists. And because he's young and he's colored and he's male, they make an assumption right off the -- right off the bat that he's a -- he's a terrorist, and from there, it allows them to interpret everything he does within this particular narrow context.

COOPER: And once you make that initial assumption, a whole set of assumptions...

GLADWELL: A whole series of...

COOPER: ... gathers. It was also a group of police, specialist police, specially armed police working together. You say the case of Rodney King is an example of where groupthink, or police working together in a group actually contributes to the problem.

GLADWELL: Yes, bad decisions are made by cops when they are in groups. We think the opposite is the case, that you somehow are safer or better when you're in groups -- not the case with police officers. And when they're by themselves, they make profoundly better decisions. They're more cautious, they are more likely to wait a beat, they're more likely to think things through. When they're in a group, they rush things. They take risks. They feel emboldened by the presence of their peers to do things that would otherwise never even occur to them.

COOPER: It's such a difficult job being a police officer. What other things contribute to those mistakes that are made in a split second?

GLADWELL: When you're acting under conditions of stress, when your heart rate is above 120 or 130 beats a minute, when cortisol and other stress hormones are surging through your brains, it fundamentally changes the way you make decisions. So someone who is capable of making very sound, rational decisions when they are physiologically normal, is utterly transformed when their heart rate is surging...

COOPER: Really?

GLADWELL: To the point where they're no longer capable of making good decision at all. We turn into idiots when we're under high stress, unless we're specifically trained to deal with that stress. You know, that's why police officers always tell you to practice calling 911, because if there's actually a burglar in the next room or a rapist, you can't work the phone.

COOPER: Really?

GLADWELL: You're that -- when your heart is racing and you're that scared, you can't do things that otherwise you would normally take for granted. And I think that's what's going on here. These police officers were clearly -- I think they were terrified. I mean, in the best sense, they thought, oh my goodness, someone is going to blow up another train. And when you go through that kind of situation, and you're not prepared through adequate training, you make decisions that would otherwise seem insane.

COOPER: When should you trust your gut? I mean, police are like everybody else, they're human. When should you trust your gut and when should you not?

GLADWELL: Well, you can trust your gut in those situations when you have undergone training that is specifically designed to allow you to cope with the effects of stress, or when you have a great deal of experience. And I've talked to dozens and dozens of cops since my book came out, and they have all said to me the same thing, which is, it took them a good 10 years on the street before they thought they could properly handle these high-stress situations. That's how long it takes to master these enormously complex and problematic and difficult situations.

COOPER: Now, I feel for police officers who have to make these decisions. They don't want to make the wrong decision, obviously.

GLADWELL: Yes. It is exceedingly difficult to be a police officer and be in situation where you're forced to make a decision in the blink of an eye about whether someone is either completely innocent or about to blow up a train. That's about as difficult a situation as you can possibly put a human being in.


COOPER: His book is "Blink," by the way. If you haven't read it, you should. It's a fascinating research.

Let's find out what is coming up at the top of the hour on "PAULA ZAHN NOW." Hey, Paula.

PAULA ZAHN, HOST, "PAULA ZAHN NOW": Hi, Anderson, thanks so much. We're going to spend part of the hour on those riveting stories we heard in that Kansas courtroom today, when serial murderer Dennis Rader was confronted by the families of the people he has killed over the last couple of decades.

Also, a story with absolutely incredible pictures. See what happens when you're in a jet that loses cabin pressure. I guarantee you're going to pay attention the next time you're on a jet and they talk about the emergency oxygen masks. You might be surprised how little time you have to react. Please join me at the top of the hour for the details -- Anderson.

COOPER: About five minutes from now. Thanks, Paula.

Coming up next on 360, we've been getting a lot of e-mail from you tonight about the BTK sentencing and also the media coverage of it, including our coverage. Has it been excessive? It's been a question we've been wrestling with all day, to be honest. We'll have your thoughts next.


COOPER: Time for some of your viewer e-mails on the BTK sentencing. Ankur from Alexandria, Virginia wrote: "A person like the BTK does not deserve prime-time coverage. We are all aware of what he did. He's evil. There is no need to try to understand him."

Christy from Wichita, Kansas says: "Living my whole life in the suburb of Wichita, I've had the fear of BTK, especially when he resurfaced. The news coverage has brought closure for me. I'm a mother and have a small child. The coverage brings reassurance visually to me that he will never get out of prison and harm anyone again."

Alex from Macomb, Virginia writes: "Rader's conviction should be highly publicized in the media, because of what he did to all those innocent people. Just watching your show tonight and seeing the overview of all 10 victims really made me realize what he did that deserved him those 10 life sentences."

Amy from Bristol, Tennessee, however, has a completely different point of view. Amy writes: "Yes, I believe the media has given this monster way too much attention. What was there to gain by televising his sentencing hearing? Please, from this moment forward, just let this killer disappear into obscurity."

And Amy, I certainly get where you're coming from on that argument. As I've said tonight, we've wrestled really with this question all day long: How much is too much coverage. Tonight, we tried to focus on the 10 victims and remember their lives, not just the man who took their lives. We appreciate your e-mail, Amy, and everyone's e-mail tonight. Thanks very much.

You can send us your thoughts anytime. Log on to Then click on the "instant feedback" link. We'll be back tomorrow, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 p.m. on the West Coast. I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks very much for watching this edition of 360. CNN's prime-time coverage continues right now with Paula Zahn. Hey, Paula.