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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Floods In New Jersey; Pakistan Relief Stretched To Limit; Possible Mercy Killings After Katrina; Arkansas Woman has 16th Child; New Orleans Police Beating Tape Released In Its Entirety
Aired October 13, 2005 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening.
Shocking allegations out of New Orleans: Did doctors decide to kill their elderly patients after Katrina struck? And your money: Is it really going to aid the victims of the storm? 360 starts now.
Good evening again, thanks for joining us.
It has been raining for seven days now in New Jersey, seven days, and the forecasts are for more rain to come. In Lincoln Park alone, some 30 roads are flooded. Residents and rescue workers are switching from cars to boats, and as we say, the rain just keeps on coming.
CNN's Chris Huntington reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A search and rescue team from the Lincoln Park, New Jersey, Fire Department brought 19-year-old Kelly Aldridge (ph) out of her home which is surrounded by nearly six feet of water. Her mother, Suzanne Ritterbusch, anxiously waited as the rescue crew made their way to her neighborhood, flooded by the overflowing Pompton River.
Kelly had been trying to gather her family's most valued possessions, particularly photographs of her deceased stepfather, she couldn't find them.
SUZANNE RITTERBUSCH, FLOOD EVACUEE: No pictures?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. The pictures are on top the shelf in the room, mommy, I couldn't get it.
RITTERBUSCH: It's OK. It's OK.
HUNTINGTON: Suzanne and her three daughters have been through this before. This section of New Jersey floods often. This is the third time they've had to evacuate this year. Suzanne is angry that the warning from authorities this time did not come until 10:00 this morning and lacked urgency after several days of flooding.
RITTERBUSCH: They didn't say get out. They just said there was minor flood flooding in the area.
HUNTINGTON (on camera): How would you characterize this flooding that you've just been evacuated from?
RITTERBUSCH: Major. This is major.
HUNTINGTON (voice-over): The Lincoln Park Fire Department said they evacuated at least 15 people from here today. After helping Suzanne and her daughters, they pulled out. Moments later, Suzanne's landlord showed up with a boat he just bought for one last ditch salvage effort.
Computers, one from a neighbor's house as well as Suzanne's, containing files and a client list from a business that she only just started. Suzanne praised the rescue workers who helped them today, but not those who ran emergency operations during the flooding earlier in the week.
RITTERBUSCH: I pushed two cars up to higher ground the other day and watched all the officials stand there and watch me and my two children waist deep in water push cars up. If the rescue workers of Katrina treated those people that way, I could understand their sense of hopelessness, because this was no fun and there was no compassion.
HUNTINGTON: Suzanne knows all too well the perils of living in a flood zone and she has wanted to move for a year. But with the home prices in this area out of her reach, she and her daughters are just renting a house that they can't even call home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HUNTINGTON: Now, I'm standing in their flooded street. Right here, there's only about a foot-and-a-half of water. Their house is about 200 yards back there. As we've said, close to six feet of water. The water continues to rise here, Anderson, even though it hasn't rained here in several hours. The main reason, the ground is saturated around here and it's all uphill from here, heading north. Anything that falls up there comes down here. There is more rain expected here tonight, and considerably more rain expected north of here.
So even when the bulk of the rain passes through Lincoln Park, the bulk of the flooding is not done by a long shot because the water runs downhill and it takes sometimes a couple days to do that. So the concern here really lasts probably well through Saturday -- Anderson.
COOPER: Yes, what a mess. Chris Huntington, thanks.
And the forecasts are not encouraging, as Chris said. CNN meteorologist Dave Hennan has the latest from the Weather Center -- Dave.
DAVE HENNAN, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, that's right, Anderson, we did see a break this afternoon. That is going to change around quickly this evening as we show you the latest radar picture. Here's the next batch of rain, about an hour south of New York City. And then it will be through the city and further north into New Jersey, into Upstate by later on tonight. So more flooding on the way. This moisture extends all the way back down into the Caribbean, believe it or not, and that's why we have seen this go on for days and days and days, all that moisture pouring in off the Atlantic. More heavy rain, you can see it on the satellite picture here, will be moving in through much of the Northeast tonight.
One thing we think is going to happen eventually is the flood threat is going to begin to shift a little bit further to the north. So over the next 24 hours, the heaviest rainfall, New York City into Hartford and eventually moving back through Upstate.
Here's out computer model which is like a calculator, adding up the amount of precipitation. Where you see the white, that is additional rainfall over three inches. And that is going to be through Upstate New York.
And check out some of these totals, Anderson, over six inches of rainfall in Central Park. And we have a couple of more inches on the way. So the flood threat is going to go right on into the weekend, we think. Back to you.
COOPER: miserable weekend up here in the Northeast. Dave, thanks.
As we said at the top of the program, there's a lot to tell you about out of New Orleans tonight. The thing we've been trying to do on this program and others at CNN in our coverage is to hold people accountable for their actions, their promises. We're talking about police and politicians, government bureaucrats and the like.
For instance, did you know that Louisiana politicians are trying to get a relief package for the state that's going to cost about $250 billion. Now, that's on top of the $62 billion that Congress has already spent. Now, some of that money is clearly needed. But hidden in the requests are items that are, well, questionable. Like $25 million for a sugarcane research laboratory. What that has to do with storm recovery is an open question.
We asked CNN's Ed Henry to look into what's happening on the Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The motion to reconsider is laid upon the table.
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fireworks flying on Capitol Hill. Charges Republicans are exploiting the tragedy of Katrina to rush through their own agenda.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: This body to act in the shameful way that it is...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gentlelady is not stating the...
PELOSI: Is this not part of the culture of the corruption... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gentlelady is not stating the proper parliamentary inquiry.
PELOSI: ... of the Republican Party?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does the gentlelady have a parliamentary inquiry?
PELOSI: You dishonor the wishes of the American people who...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does the...
PELOSI: ... have spoken.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... gentlelady have...
HENRY: Republicans revived a controversial bill making it easier to build oil refineries. Before Katrina, it had been shot down. The move left moderate Republicans fuming at their own party leaders.
REP. SHERWOOD BOEHLERT (R), NEW YORK: H.R. 3893 will increase the deficit, harm the environment, undermine the states and give charity to oil companies while doing virtually nothing, virtually nothing to help consumers.
HENRY: The White House has pleased big business by waiving the Davis-Bacon Act in the Gulf region so the companies can pay less than the going wage in rebuilding efforts. To help displaced students, the administration wants school vouchers, repeatedly stalled in Congress.
But Democrats have also been accused of capitalizing on Katrina with Louisiana Mary Landrieu pushing a massive $250 billion relief package on top of the $62 billion already spent by Congress.
TOM FINNIGAN, CITIZENS AGAINST GOVERNMENT WASTE: Every special interest with this bill is coming out of the woodwork and claiming that they were affected by the hurricane.
HENRY: Citizens Against Government Waste charges Landrieu's plan is full of pork, $8 million for alligator farms, $25 million for a sugarcane research lab, and $40 billion for the Army Corps of Engineers, which is 10 times the agency's annual budget for the entire nation.
SEN. MARY LANDRIEU (D), LOUISIANA: It's absolutely justifiable and I have news for people, it's probably going to be more than $250 billion when all is said and done. And this is for Louisiana and the nation that it serves, and the Gulf Coast region.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Eyebrows are also being raised about the fact that FEMA is now spending about $11 million a day on hotel rooms for evacuees. Critics say that's because the agency is racing to meet President Bush's deadline to get these evacuees out of shelters so that the shelters can be shut down -- Anderson. COOPER: And a couple of questions, $25 million for a sugarcane research laboratory, what does that have to do with hurricane relief?
HENRY: Well, to hear Senator Landrieu and others who support this plan tell it, they say this is an industry that's been decimated by the storm. Also, the alligator farms that I mentioned in the piece, that these are industries that have been hit so hard that they need the money. What critics are saying is that maybe they need some money, but when you talk about $25 million or $8 million, that it's clearly far off the mark, and it's going to be wasteful spending.
COOPER: And $11 million every day the government is spending of our taxpayer money to put people in hotel rooms and motel rooms, what are the alternatives? I mean, what, keeping people in shelters or giving vouchers to get people to rent apartments?
HENRY: Right. Rental vouchers for apartments. And some experts have suggested that that would work a lot better. The agency, though, FEMA, has been hamstrung by the fact that they obviously have hundreds of thousands of people that have been displaced, that they're trying to find temporary housing for. Some of the temporary housing, the trailers that they wanted to set up, have not exactly worked out as they had planned, so that's been another challenge. But obviously, this is a lot of money, $11 million a day.
COOPER: Every day. Ed Henry, thanks.
Remember in the week after Katrina, when all the politicians kept saying, now is not the time to point fingers, now is not the time to about blame, there will be time and a place for all that. That's what they said week after week. We, of course, continue to wait for the time and the place to be named. We've repeatedly asked the mayor of New Orleans, for instance, to talk with us on camera, but he's declined. In fact, his office has told us he's declining indefinitely. We will continue to ask.
The mayor has been busy touring evacuee shelters, however, around his state today. But the response has not always been as he's planned. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): Mayor Nagin could call this his "there's no place like home" campaign.
MAYOR RAY NAGIN (R), NEW ORLEANS: We're going to get you back to New Orleans to inspect your property and find out what's going on.
COOPER: But while touring this shelter in Shreveport, Louisiana, Nagin met some skeptics who reminded him there's no place to even buy food back home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The grocery stores, where at in New Orleans are they?
NAGIN: You mean on the... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any groceries in the city of New Orleans?
NAGIN: In Algiers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not New Orleans. I said New Orleans.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: That one was easy to laugh off. But point made, a point underscored by those who actually did return to the Lower 9th Ward this week for the first time to see what was left of their lives.
TANNISE GAUF, FMR. 9TH WARD RESIDENT: I don't want to come back. I don't want to come back. This is -- the house we lived at for 22 years, and to see -- to have to leave it like this, I don't want to come back.
COOPER: But this family looked at the rubble of their lives and knew they wanted to rebuild.
KEITH CALHOUN, FMR. 9TH WARD RESIDENT: At least now I know what I'm facing. I know that, hey, you know, you don't have nothing no more, but you've got to keep going.
COOPER: Mayor Nagin is counting on that kind of spirit to resurrect New Orleans. But as he found out at the Shreveport shelter, his citizens will settle for nothing less in their politicians than 100 percent accountability.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to go home. I want to help the people of New Orleans. But I can't do it if you're going to give us all these false pretenses. We want everything to just come to the table. It's people like us that's going to make the city flourish, not promises.
NAGIN: I know this is tough. This is tough. I'm not trying to give you false promises, I'm just trying to give people some idea what's going on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I understand.
NAGIN: So then when they come back they understand the real situation. And the real situation right now is there are lots of jobs and opportunities.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But telling them to come back and there's no groceries open, no Wal-Marts...
NAGIN: That's not true. That's not true.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is some, but in the immediate areas they're going to go in?
NAGIN: I know it seems like it's much worse and it's really bad. But the city is coming back and it's coming back slowly. There are places that are open where people can shop. I've been there. I've done it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm going to stand with you and if the city comes back, I can say, I am a business owner of 32 years, I can vouch what you did. But if it fails, I will be there and be your worst nightmare. I promise.
NAGIN: I want you to come back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I promise.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, in New York, new questions are being raised about the alleged security threat in the subways. In particular, did the best-connected people in New York, meaning the fattest of the fat cats, get better information, earlier information about the potential terrorist threat to the subways than everybody else?
CNN's Jeanne Meserve has been investigating, she joins us live in Washington -- Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Anderson, we don't know if they were the fattest of the fat cats, but some people apparently did find out early.
The Department of Homeland Security is investigating two e-mails that outline the threat to New York City transit, both sent before the threat information became public, one of them before New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg had even been briefed.
"As some of you may know, my father works for Homeland Security at a very high position and receives security briefings on a daily basis," the first e-mail reads. "The only information that I can pass on is that everyone should at all costs not ride the subway for the next two weeks."
That e-mail is dated 6:05 p.m., October 3rd, about an hour-and-a- half before the mayor had been filled in. A second e-mail is dated October 5th, still one day before the threat information was made public. The sender in this case claims to be friend of the chief of intelligence for the U.S. Coast Guard, and the Coast Guard's liaison to the Office of Homeland Security, described as having access to the highest level of intelligence traffic. This e-mail is even more specific, saying the subways should be avoided October 7th through 10th because of, quote, "potential terrorist activities."
The New York Police Department says both e-mails surfaced while city officials were being told to stay quiet, so as not to jeopardize a related military operation in Iraq. And some New York officials are finding it ironic that although someone connected with DHS apparently found the threat information alarming enough to warrant warning families and friends, when New York City went public, DHS downplayed the threat --Anderson.
COOPER: It's fascinating. Jeanne Meserve, keep on looking into it. Thanks, Jeanne. Coming up tonight on 360, the story of a cold case, an old murder solved not by newfangled science, but by old-fashioned police work.
And a look at all the hard prepping and rehearsal work that goes into a live, spontaneous presidential event, well, maybe not so spontaneous. We'll see.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'll wait and see. Take it one at a time, sometimes two at a time in our situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Then there's this, the Duggers, they are proud they can remember all their kids' names. Yes, well, it is a big deal, because there are 16 of their kids. You'll meet them, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Lots to cover tonight. Christi Paul from HEADLINE NEWS joins us with some of the other stories we're following right now.
Hey, Christi.
CHRISTI PAUL, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hey, Anderson, good to see you.
Texas District Attorney Ronnie Earl has issued a subpoena for the home phone records of former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay. Delay, of course, facing criminal charges of money laundering. A spokesman for DeLay called the subpoena, quote, "a ridiculous stunt."
And Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist has been subpoenaed by the Securities and Exchange Commission to turn over personal records as part of an insider trading investigation. Frist is being investigated for selling shares in a family-run company right before the price fell.
A 6-year-old Cuban boy has died while apparently being smuggled into Florida. The Coast Guard said it chased a speed boat south of Key West when it suspected it might be smuggling illegal immigrants. The boat flipped, trapping the child underneath. The other 30 people on board were rescued.
And those Iraqis who cannot get to the polls this weekend have begun casting their votes on the country's draft constitution; among them, hospital patients and prisoners. But only detainees not tried or convicted are being allowed to vote early.
And two Canadian police officers are being investigated after this rough arrest was taped by a local news channel. This was in Montreal. The police were apparently chasing a man and a woman following the robbery of a convenience store. Now, a senior Montreal official said they are taking the incident very seriously, but they say a one-minute video clip does not tell the whole story. Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: All right, more on that later. Thanks very much, Christi. See you again in about 30 minutes.
Coming up tonight on 360, the latest on the monstrous earthquake in Pakistan: tens of thousands dead, hundreds of thousands needing everything, the terrible struggle to help.
Also tonight, did the unspeakable happen in New Orleans after Katrina? Were hospital patients too fragile to survive helped to die by their own doctors?
And a little later up there in the Northeast and southern New England, is that Noah's Ark in the distance? Probably not, but a lot of flooded water. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: It has been six days since a killer quake rocked Pakistan, and in isolated mountain valleys, the death toll continues to rise. Forty thousand people are believed dead. Winter is coming fast, but not enough help is coming, not fast enough.
ITN's Bill Neely reports tonight on the helicopters flying out of war zones into the mountains to rescue children. That's tonight's "World in 360."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL NEELY, ITN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Noise and terror today for the children who have waited so long for this, their rescue. But they hated it. This boy, injured from head to the one foot he has left, his wounds septic. Their mothers could be no comfort, all of them traumatized by a huge aftershock overnight. But at least they were out. Lining up to pull them out, dozens of foreign helicopters, mostly American, fresh from fighting militants in neighboring Afghanistan.
I went with them today, deep into the mountains where the U.N. says rescuers are losing the race to reach dying victims. Six days on and some towns have seen no aid. The sight of mass destruction imprinted on the eyes of everyone.
The Pakistan government sent no one here. Too remote, they said, too difficult. Furious people have to be held back at gunpoint today, but their fury has a cause. Badly injured children, clinging to life, had little food or liquid until now. Fathers who carried sons for miles only got help for them today.
(on camera): It has been a long, long wait, some of the injured who came here to be rescued didn't survive. The air crews say others don't survive the flight out. It is, even after six days, a brutal battle to live.
(voice-over): Dozens more American helicopters are promised. Some crews have come straight from a very different disaster.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quite a few of our team members that are here came directly from Hurricane Katrina. They had a few days at home, but then they came right out to Pakistan to help out here.
NEELY: And they are helping, there's no question. But with 2 million homeless and a million in dire need of the very basics of life, help is vital. Nothing, though, can quite erase the pain and the deep sadness here.
Bill Neely, ITV News, Batgram, Pakistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: If three's a crowd, what is 16? Meet the Duggers (ph), mom, dad, and their 16 children, the last one just arrived. Oh, by the way, they may have more.
And the president telecommutes to Tikrit. Mr. Bush's videoconference with soldiers in Iraq seems to have gone just fine, exactly as scripted and rehearsed. So much for reality TV.
360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back to 360. We begin in New Orleans. At this moment, signs of life. Fats Domino has returned. The boogie-woogie great, one of the fathers of rock 'n' roll, was evacuated by boat, you may remember, from his home in the Lower 9th Ward weeks ago. This was his first day back.
The Army Corps of Engineers said today that it has essentially completed un-watering the metropolitan area of New Orleans. Un- watering, we think, means the place is dry. It's like "de-planing," not a real word. Anyway, almost a trillion gallons of water have been pumped out of the city.
And the chicory-laced coffee and sugar-dusted fried dough are coming back. New Orleans' world famous Cafe Du Monde today announced plans to reopen after the longest break in its 153-year-old history. Signs of life, as we promised.
We focus tonight on a story that is so disturbing it is at first hard to believe. Did doctors and nurses in a New Orleans hospital decide to kill some of their elderly patients in those difficult days after Hurricane Katrina?
Now, we don't know the answer, but we do know the state's attorney general is investigating and you're about to hear why. A doctor who was there said, at the very least, he heard other doctors talking about mercy killing.
CNN's Jonathan Freed investigates.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There was no power. Patients and staff thought they were stranded in 110-degree sweltering heat. It was desperate.
DR. BRYANT KING, DOCTOR, MEMORIAL MEDICAL CENTER: I was really upset that it had come to this and we were a hospital, but we weren't really functioning as a hospital. We were functioning as a shelter at this point.
FRAN BUTLER, NURSE MANAGER, MEMORIAL MEDICAL CENTER: It was battle conditions. I mean, it was as bad as being out on the field.
FREED: They were running out of food and water. Workers carried patients into the parking garage to wait for evacuations. But there were too few rescuers and often too late.
KING: There's no electricity, there's no water, it's hot, and people are dying. We thought it was as bad as it could get. All we wanted to know was: Why aren't we getting evacuated yet? That was our biggest thing -- we should be gone by now.
FREED: Nine days after the hospital was finally emptied, there were dozens of bodies -- in the morgue, in the hallways, and in the chapel. In all, hospital officials now say 45 bodies were found at Memorial.
Some patients, already near death when Katrina hit, may have succumbed to their ailments. Others may have given in to the terrible conditions.
(on camera): But a CNN investigation reveals that doctors and nurses grew so desperate that some of them openly and repeatedly discussed euthanizing patients whom they believed would not survive the ordeal.
So desperate, there was talk of mercy killings -- talk of mercy killings by health professionals as a serious option at an American hospital.
BUTLER: My nurses wanted to know what was the plan. Did they say to put people out of their misery? Yes. Did they say to actually -- they wanted to know how to get them out of their misery.
FREED (voice-over): To be clear, Butler says she did not see anyone perform a mercy killing. And she says, because of her personal beliefs, she never would have participated.
But at least one doctor there, Bryant King, is convinced it went beyond just talk.
KING: Most people know that something happened that shouldn't have happened.
FREED: Dr. King says he witnessed is a key element of an investigation by the Louisiana attorney general. The state constitution expressly forbids euthanasia, and prosecutors say charges could include manslaughter.
In exclusive interviews with CNN, Dr. King says he was approached at about 9:00 A.M. on Thursday -- in the despair three days after the hurricane -- by another doctor. According to King, that doctor recounted a conversation with a hospital administrator and another doctor who suggested that patients be put out of their misery.
KING: You've got to be (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kidding me that you actually think that that's a good idea. How could you possibly think that that's a good idea?
And she said, "Well, you know, we talked about it, and this other doctor said she'd be willing to do it."
And I was like, "You're crazy."
FREED: King says, at the time, he dismissed the talk because the doctor who had told him of the mercy killing conversation indicated that, like him, she opposed it.
(on camera): Then, about three hours later, King says he noticed an uneasy quiet. The triage area, where he was working on the second floor, had been cleared of everyone except for patients, a second hospital administrator, and two doctors -- including the one who had first raised the question of mercy killing.
(voice-over): King says the administrator asked if they wanted to join in prayer -- something they hadn't done since the ordeal began.
KING: I looked around, and one of the other physicians -- not the one who had the conversation with me, but another -- had a handful of syringes. I don't know what's in the syringes. I don't know what's -- and the only thing I heard her say is, "I'm going to give you something to make you feel better."
I don't know what she was going to give them. But we hadn't been giving medications like that to make people feel better or any sort of palliative care -- or anything like that. We hadn't been doing that up to this point.
FREED: King says he decided he would have no part of what was he was seeing. He grabbed his bag to leave, and he says one of the other doctors hugged him.
King says he doesn't know what happened next. He boarded a boat and left the hospital.
As for nurse manager Fran Butler, she says she never saw any patients euthanized. However, she said the physician who had expressed opposition to euthanasia to Dr. King also spoke to her about it.
BUTLER: She was the first person to approach me about putting patients to sleep.
FREED (on camera): Were you stunned?
BUTLER: Yes, just kind of. I kind of blew it off, because of the person who said it. But when this doctor approached me about that, she made the comment to me on how she was totally against it and wouldn't do it.
FREED (voice-over): Tenet Healthcare, the company that owns Memorial, told CNN that many of the 45 patients who died were critically ill. Tenet said as many as 11 patients who were found in the morgue had died the weekend before the hurricane. Twenty-four of the dead had been patients of a long-term acute care facility known as LifeCare that rented space inside Memorial.
KING: There's only one person that died overnight. The previous day, there were only two. So for there to be -- from Thursday to Friday for there to be 10 times that many just doesn't make sense to me.
FREED: Earlier this month, King repeated his account to investigators from the Attorney General's Office. At the request of the attorney general, the coroner Frank Manyard (ph) is performing autopsies and drug screens on all the Memorial dead. He confirmed to CNN that state officials have told him they think euthanasia may have been committed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, they thought someone was going around injecting people with some sort of lethal medication, yes.
FREED: Manyard says that, because of the condition of the bodies, it may be difficult to determine why so many patients died at Memorial.
In early October, Tenet Healthcare said the state had executed search warrants of Memorial Medical Center records and that the independent LifeCare facility operated inside the hospital.
Over the course of several weeks CNN has reached the three people King says were in the second floor area with him at the time he saw the syringes.
The hospital administrator told CNN, "I don't recall being in a room with patients or saying a prayer," later adding that King must be lying.
The doctor King identifies as having first broached the subject of euthanasia with him said she would not talk to the media. The doctor King alleges held the syringes spoke by phone with CNN on several occasions, emphasizing how everyone inside the hospital felt abandoned.
"We did everything humanly possible to save these patients," the doctor told CNN. "The government totally abandoned us to die, in the houses, in the streets, in the hospitals. Maybe a lot of us made mistakes, but we made the best decisions we could at the time."
When told about King's allegation, this doctor responded that she would not comment either way.
Nurse Manager Fran Butler says that, while some nurses did discuss euthanasia, they never stopped caring for the patients.
BUTLER: The people who were still there, they really and truly took and put their heart and souls into every patient -- whether that patient lived or died.
FREED: For his part, King regrets leaving the hospital and wonders whether there was anything he could have done.
KING: I'd rather be considered a person who abandoned patients than someone who aided in eliminating patients.
FREED (on camera): The two health care companies we mentioned in this piece -- both chose to give CNN prepared statements.
Tenet Healthcare corporation said: "In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the physicians and staff at Memorial Medical Center performed heroically to save the lives of their patients under incredibly difficult circumstances."
The statement goes on to say: "We understand that the Louisiana attorney general is investigating all deaths that occurred at New Orleans hospitals and nursing homes after the hurricane, and we fully support and are cooperating with him."
Jonathan Freed, CNN Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, as Jonathan Freed just mentioned, the second company, LifeCare, also provided CNN a statement. And it reads:
"LifeCare employees at Memorial Medical Center during the week exhibited heroism under the most difficult of circumstances. LifeCare has been fully cooperative with the Louisiana Attorney General's Office since the inception of their investigation and is unable to make any comment on matters related to the investigation."
Still ahead on "360," deadly rains in the Northeast. Ten are dead, at least three others missing. And that rain just keeps on coming. And this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning Mr. President. Thank you for everything, sir. Thank you very much for everything.
BUSH: Yes, you're welcome.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like you.
COOPER: The president talks to troops, even an Iraqi soldier, but a spur of the moment, no-holds-barred discussion it wasn't. A behind the scenes look at the making of a photo op.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: You might have already heard about the Duggar family. According to the census bureau, the average American family has just over three people. Well, by that measure, the Dugger family in Arkansas stopping average about 15 children ago. Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar on Tuesday welcomed their 16th child into the world. Her name is Johanna. And believe it or not, she may not be their last. I spoke with them earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Michelle, let me start off with congratulations. How are you feeling?
MICHELLE DUGGAR, MOTHER: Thank you. I am feeling wonderful. Very glad to have little Johanna here with us now.
COOPER: And how is she doing?
M. DUGGAR: She is doing wonderful. She is sleeping like a baby.
COOPER: Excellent. Is it true you're thinking about having another child? You'd like to have more?
JIM BOB, DUGGAR, FATHER: Well, I've always left it up to Michelle. And what do you think, Michelle?
M. DUGGAR: I would like more. We'll wait and see. Take it one at a time. Sometimes two at a time in our situation.
COOPER: Because you have twins...
M. DUGGAR: We have twins.
COOPER: How do you take care -- I know you get this question all the time, how do you do it? How do you take care of 16 children?
M. DUGGAR: And we all work together as a team. And we have certain areas that we take care of. And so if we're working on laundry, then Jessa will help keep up with laundry. And mom has the kitchen along with Jana. And then, of course, Joseph takes care of the trash. And so everybody works together as a team.
COOPER: Jill, do you ever get privacy?
JILL DUGGAR, DAUGHTER: Yes, we do. We often have times that we get to go and, like, we take turns with momma also, one on one times that we get to spend with her. And so we -- but we do have privacy around here.
COOPER: Michelle, grocery shopping must be a huge not only financially, big burden, but just logistically a huge operation.
M. DUGGAR: Right. Right. We go to the grocery store and once a month we will stock up and probably...
JIM BOB DUGGAR: Probably spend about $2,000 a month on food. M. DUGGAR: Yes.
COOPER: $2,000 a month.
M. DUGGAR: And seven grocery carts full of groceries.
COOPER: Is that true? Seven grocery carts?
M. DUGGAR: At a time, often, easily, yes.
COOPER: And then you -- I mean, then on top of all this, you home school them. I think there are a lot of parents who would think, I'd like to get these kids out of the house as quickly as possible and put them in someone else's hands. How do you go about organizing their school schedule?
M. DUGGAR: We have enjoyed home schooling. I think that has been one of the best things for our family, in that it has created a family unity and a closeness. We are learning together through life and so we have our math, English and spelling studies in the morning, which each child has their individual studies.
And then later in the afternoon, we go through our history, science, law, medicine, resources together. And then we have music that takes us on into the late afternoon. And so we do, you know, music and violin, piano and all of that along with all of our other studies.
COOPER: I couldn't help but notice all the kids, all their names begin with J. Can you just go through the list of all the kids' names?
M. DUGGAR: Yes. We have Josh, Jana, John David, Jill, Jessa, Ginger, Joseph, Josha, Joanna, Jediah, Jeremiah, Jason, James, Justin, Jackson, and Baby Johanna.
COOPER: Does after a while, is it hard coming up with more J names?
M. DUGGAR: We have quite a few still that we haven't used yet.
COOPER: Do you feel like you're able to spend the time you would like with each child individually?
M. DUGGAR: I feel like we do, because we spend all day together, home schooling. And so often, we'll be sitting down together one-on- one doing a phonics lesson and talking about the day and so we probably do get to spend a lot of time together, maybe more so than a lot of families. With Jim Bob's job being real estate, he does spend a lot more time here at home with everyone.
COOPER: Well, I'm amazed you've been able to corral everyone at all once and keep them relatively quiet. It's probably the most quiet time you've had all day long. Appreciate you talking to us, Michelle. Congratulations on the new arrival. I'm glad that your doing well. I'm glad the baby is doing well. and Jim Bob and Jill and Joshua and all of the others, everyone else, thanks very much for sitting still throughout this. Appreciate it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: How did they keep them so still? For more on the Dugger family, you can tune into the Discovery Health Channel on Wednesday, October 19th at 8:00 p.m. Eastern time.
Coming up, breaking news that we'll bring you just after the break. For the first time we're getting a look at the complete video of Robert Davis being beaten in New Orleans by New Orleans police officers. The AP has just released the entire video. It runs about five minutes. We'll play it in its entirety when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Some breaking news to report. The Associated Press has just released a videotape of -- the full, complete videotape, it runs about five minutes, of the incident between Robert Davis, a man who was beaten by New Orleans police officers. We're going to play the whole tape right now, seeing it for the first time as you're seeing it.
The tape starts at about the same point. We do not see the point of contention, what happened before the beating began. There you've just seen the officers punching Mr. Davis. Senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin is joining us now. He is also watching this tape for the first time. Jeffrey, what are you watching for?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Well, what you want to see is how the police are going to narrate what happened because these cases are generally a lot harder to prove in court, the police brutality cases, and jurors tend to be sympathetic to the police. And I'm looking to see what how they will explain what happened because they will almost certainly testify and explain.
COOPER: I have -- we've talked to Frank DeSalvo, who is the attorney for the police. What he's repeatedly said is that -- at first he was saying the officers only struck Mr. Davis in the shoulder and back of the neck. He now last night said that, in fact, they were hitting him in the neck and the lower part of the head.
There you saw them attempting to hit him in the face. Up to now, Mr. DeSalvo has been saying that they didn't strike him in the face. They say that most of the injuries that were clear on Mr. DeSalvo -- on Mr. Davis were -- occurred when he fell onto the ground. I'm not sure that this tape -- let's try to lose that banner, if we can. I'm not sure if this videotape really sheds any light on that.
TOOBIN: Anderson, I think one key point that I'm sure the police will emphasize is that, you know, he is not handcuffed. And, you know, their position would be, I think, totally indefensible if they were beating him while he was handcuffed. But they'll certainly portray that there was a struggle to handcuff him, and that's the reason they were trying to subdue him, that's the reason they were hitting him. And, you know, he does not get handcuffed until he's on the ground. I think, clearly, the worst part of the tape for the police is that punching that goes on very early in the tape.
COOPER: Yes, Mr. DeSalvo claims that it is common practice in New Orleans to punch somebody. In fact, he said last night you punch them wherever you can is what he told me in an interview. This is now the other police officer. That is an Associated Press producer.
Mr. DeSalvo also said -- the attorney for that man says that that was proper police procedure that perhaps he should have not used the expletives that he did use, but that he saw nothing wrong in the behavior of that police officer toward that producer. The superintendent of New Orleans Police has come forward now, Riley, and of course said absolutely, that is not common practice. That is not the proper procedure.
TOOBIN: Well, it's certainly, I mean, you know, inappropriate and bad procedure. I don't know if what that officer did to the AP producer there is a crime, but it's certainly not the way people should behave toward the press.
COOPER: Now, I think I just saw somebody kicking -- it appeared as if someone kicked -- once the tape is done, maybe we can rewind to that moment. Because at this point, Mr. DeSalvo, the attorney for the police said that no one kicked Mr. Davis when he was down. We saw clearly from another CNN vantage point, they pushed him at least twice. Push is the word he used with the toe of his boot, to keep him down.
The point in contention right now is that Mr. Davis says that he did nothing to spur this on, that he was not drunk. The attorney for the police says, in fact -- they say Mr. Davis was drunk. In fact, they say he's a belligerent drunk to use their term, though there's no breathalyzer and there is no, that we know of, scientific evidence that can prove that.
TOOBIN: Right, and one -- and certainly the points that the prosecutors of the cops will make about this whole incident is there really is no visible sign of resistance from Mr. Davis throughout.
Now the police may say, in fact, he was resisting, but on the videotape, at least as I'm seeing it, there really is no sign that he's resisting. Now, it may be that he was, but, I mean, what makes this tape so painful to watch, and just so awful is that he does seem to be being hit and beaten for no reason.
COOPER: What the attorney for the police says is that he was drunk, that he lurched into a police horse. This is another witness who we've actually now talked to who has said that he was trying to get somebody to intercede on this and was then himself handcuffed.
TOOBIN: Yes, I mean, that's certainly is not something that would lend much respect to the New Orleans Police Department's behavior. But again, they'll have an explanation for what's going on, for why they did what they did. And in all these cases, you know, the police -- I shouldn't say in all of them, but in many of the cases, going back to Rodney King, the police have an explanation of their behavior and they are often believed by juries.
COOPER: It's interesting though, Jeffrey, because, I mean, Mr. DeSalvo, the attorney for the police, says that what we just saw there, the at least three punches to the back of Mr. Davis' head, he claims that is something they teach in the police academy in New Orleans. The superintendent of police has said categorically, that's not true, that is absolutely not procedure.
I talked to New Orleans police officer off the record who just laughed when I asked him if they teach that in the police academy. He said no, of course not. That's not something that any police officer sees that knows that you don't do that.
We also talked to an expert witness, a former captain in the Alabama police force who teaches police academies, who says absolutely you don't punch anybody in the neck, or the spinal region or the head because it's simply too dangerous, can cause catastrophic injuries.
TOOBIN: Certainly, in my experience -- and I don't claim to be an expert on police interrogation or arrest tactics -- but I've certainly never heard of advice to hit people. Here -- I mean, this in many respects, will probably be the key moment in the case against these officers, because, you know, the police will claim that, you know, Mr. Davis is resisting being handcuffed and that's the reason he's dragged to the ground and that's the reason he -- that the struggle continues.
You know, it's awful to watch and just, you know, sometimes we shouldn't avoid the obvious. I mean, you have a black man and three or four officers there who certainly -- I mean, I can't see the fourth, but, I mean, it looks like four white police officers.
And so there is certainly going to be, I suspect, a racial dimension to this. And when the New Orleans courts start functioning again, you know, the racial composition of the jury will probably matter to a certain degree.
COOPER: Also now, as you look at it, I mean, there are four people there, none of whom seem to be really working in conjunction with one another. For a time, one had his head in a headlock, another was punching him, another was wrestling with his leg. They do not seem any sort of sense of control and certainly this incident does not seem to reflect an officer who is in full control of his emotions, obviously.
TOOBIN: No, and one thing that would happen in a trial, and I think it's worth focusing on, and it's hard to do it here in this context, but, you know, the jury will have to evaluate the conduct of each officer individually, not sort of a group.
And, you know, the officer who is punching is going to be judged differently than the other officers. And each person -- the jury will watch the tape if it comes to that, and focus on each officer at different ... COOPER: Jeffrey, I'm told we have Frank DeSalvo, the attorney for the police officer. Mr. DeSalvo, I appreciate you joining us. As you see the video, I don't know if you're seeing this for the first time as well, what are your thoughts? Frank DeSalvo, the attorney for the police, I don't know if you can hear me. If you are seeing this for the first time, what are your thoughts?
FRANK DESALVO, ATTORNEY: I don't see anything different than what I've seen before, other than a different angle.
COOPER: Is there -- at this point, you haven't seen anything new on this tape?
DESALVO: Well, I see just a different angle. Is there something I'm supposed to see that I don't see?
COOPER: I'm not to tell you what you're seeing. I mean, this has an extra minute of video, and this is the complete tape as it exists. If you feel that there's nothing new to add on it, then I certainly understand that.
DESALVO: This is an extra minute on the tail end.
COOPER: All right, well, clearly you don't think there's anything new to talk about it. I appreciate you -- we're going to take a short break. Our coverage continues in just a moment. We'll be right back.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. I'm Heidi Collins. Paula has the night off. What if the doors of hundreds of jail cells suddenly swung open, the prisoners allowed to go free?
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