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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Steven Avery, Once Exonerated, Now a Murder Suspect; A Look inside Al-Zarqawi's Hometown; Voices Raised in Anger on the Streets of Amman; Woman Robs Bank while on Cell Phone; FBI Investigates How Levees were Built; Brave New Women Opt for New Procedure to Freeze Biological Clock; Manners Update: What Viewers Are Grappling With; Cooper Tries Co-Hosting "Regis & Kelly"
Aired November 11, 2005 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The story that follows is enough to give you a headache -- in the way that the twists and turns of a Hitchcock movie can do, that with double and triple crosses and a false surprise ending followed by a real surprise ending. Only, this story, sad to say, is a true one. About a man, once unjustly accused, who now stands accused once again. CNN Keith Oppenheim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice-over): In Wisconsin, Steven Avery had become a symbol of a flawed system. He spent 18 years in prison, convicted of a rape he never committed. Two years ago, after new DNA evidence proved him innocent, Avery walked out the prison gates. He was a free man -- until now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNETH KRATZ, CALUMET COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I intend to file a criminal complaint in Manitowoc County, charging Steven Avery with first-degree intentional homicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM: Since October 31, Wisconsin police have been searching for this woman: Theresa Halbach, a 25-year old photographer. She was shooting pictures of cars that day for "Auto Trader" magazine. She had an appointment at Avery's Auto Salvage, the junkyard owned by Steven Avery's family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN AVERY, MURDER SUSPECT: I hope she shows up soon so that it will be all over with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM: During the search, Steven Avery was giving interviews, telling reporters he was innocent, that he believed once again police were out to get him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) AVERY: I worry about it every minute. I look out the window. Is there a squad here? Are they going to pick me up? When are they going to pick me up? When I'm sleeping, are they going to come in? I always got that fear.
OPPENHEIM: But you had nothing to do with this?
AVERY: No. No. I would never do nothing like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM: But within days, police found Halbach's vehicle hidden under branches and auto parts in the Avery junkyard. And then more evidence in the junkyard -- the partial remains of a female they believe was Theresa Halbach. The body had been burned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERRY PAGEL, CALUMET COUNTY SHERIFF: To know that one human being can do this to another human being is beyond belief.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM: Avery was taken into custody for illegal possession of guns police found in his home. Even though he had been exonerated for rape, he had a history of other crimes.
(on camera): Those include burglary and perhaps, most eerily, cruelty to animals. In 1982, police charged Avery for pouring oil and gas on a cat; then throwing that cat into a fire to watch it burn.
Today police announced they had enough to charge Steven Avery with murder. They said traces of his blood and Theresa Halbach's were found in her car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also, DNA evidence from the suspect, Steven Avery, was found upon the key -- the ignition key that started Ms. Halbach's vehicle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM: A key, police say, that had been hidden in Steven Avery's bedroom. For this community that had been looking and praying for this young woman, the news was devastating.
Mike Halbach is Theresa's brother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE HALBACH, BROTHER OF THERESA HALBACH: We did believe 100 percent that we would see Theresa again. And we know we will see Theresa again. It looks like it won't be here on earth, but it will be in heaven.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM: The investigation is not over. We've made attempts to reach Avery's attorney, who prosecutors say told them Friday he is no longer on this case. CNN's calls have not been returned. Steven Avery could go back to prison -- this time for life.
Keith Oppenheim, CNN, Calumet County, Wisconsin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: What a terrible story, however it turns out.
No room for error here, though. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is unmistakably and proudly a murderer. He beheads people. His followers blow them up -- 56 in Amman, Jordan. At least 34 in Baghdad this week. Countless more over the years in Iraq.
No one knows what turns a man into such a monster -- well it may in the end be unknowable. But knowing where he comes from is not. He comes from a city in Jordan -- and the scary thing is not everyone there is ashamed to say that's where Zarqawi is from. Here's CNN's Nic Robertson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Zarqa, the town Abu Musab al-Zarqawi took his name from, the Friday calls of prayer draws a crowd. More than three-quarters of a million people live here -- most of them, poor.
(on camera): This is where Zarqawi used to live, just up the hill around the corner. One of his relatives and some of his friends still live in this area. We've come to the mosque he used to pray at to find out what people here have to say about the bombings.
We are allowed in a few minutes, but are soon asked to leave. Prayers are so popular -- they spill onto the street. And after that, opinions about Zarqawi spill out too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He coming? I sure all these people would kill him.
OPPENHEIM: Would kill him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
OPPENHEIM: They hate him so much now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because he killed too much, too much, too much people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM (voice-over): What I want to know is what impact this new angle will have.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM (on camera): Is Zarqawi going to lose support in Jordan now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course. I hope so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM: But as I hear more, I realize that's not necessarily the case.
Al-Zarqawi is a good guy, he screams into my face. Everyone is shouting now, telling me what they thing.
I am saved by a friendly pharmacist. He takes me to his house where I meet an English teacher who wants to tell me Zarqawi was not behind the attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think America exaggerates in speaking about him and making him very responsible for these actions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM: Next stop in my search for answers, Zarqawi's brother's house. Neighbors outside say the last journalist here had rocks thrown at them. We wait. Mohammed (ph), my producer, calls on the intercom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM: What is she saying?
MOHAMMED, PRODUCER: She said just go. Just go.
OPPENHEIM: The lady inside the house said just go?
MOHAMMED: That Mohammad is sleeping, he won't ...
OPPENHEIM: Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's brother is sleeping, the woman in the house says, and she's told us just to go. So I think maybe given what happened to journalists last time they came here, maybe that's what we should do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
This is our last stop. This is where Abu Musab al-Zarqawi grew up. I came here four months ago to ask people what they thought. They told me then they supported him.
Little seems to have changed. This religious man declines an on camera interview, but says he supports Zarqawi. The young men here, have a streetwise look and attitudes to match.
Zarqawi wasn't responsible for the attacks he says. It was the Americans or the Israelis. At the nearby corner store, we find Zarqawi's cousin. He opposes terrorism, he says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM: Do you believe that it was your cousin who responsible?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe yes, maybe no. I don't know.
OPPENHEIM: You don't know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM: His home town seems the last to accept his true colors.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
OPPENHEIM: And if you want a simple analysis here, particularly in Zarqa, essentially the poorer you are, it seems at least from what we've found, the more likely you are to support Zarqawi -- Anderson.
COOPER: Nic, a fascinating piece. I mean, as you talked to people, you hear people condemning suicide bombings in Jordan, but they're not condemning suicide bombings across the board, as a tactic, are they?
OPPENHEIM: I think certainly now they're more open to that idea. And I did talk to people about that and about what's happening in Iraq as well and can they understand that better about what's happening there now. They did say, yes, but of course, they're very, very focused on what's just happened in Jordan. And I think that's why that's what we heard more about, Anderson.
COOPER: A fascinating look into Zarqawi's hometown in Zarqa. Nic Robertson, thanks very much.
If feelings are mixed in Zarqa, that is not the case elsewhere, especially in the capitol, which until now has been a refuge from the madness in Iraq and the heartache. CNN's Brent Sadler is there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRENT SADLER, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Voices raised in anger on the streets of Amman. United in condemning the man who claims he ordered the Jordan terror attacks -- Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, al Qaeda's chief in Iraq. Now branded a coward by many hard-lined Muslims protesting here. Muslims, who traditionally are opposed to their country's long-term friendship with the United States. Al Zarqawi reaping coals for his own demise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABDEL MALLEK AL JABBER, BUSINESSMAN: The best thing he can do is to commit suicide. That's the best thing he can do for his own sake and for the sake of those he have killed without any justification.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SADLER: Anger erupted as Jordanians buried many of the victims from Wednesday's triple suicide bomb attacks, including 24-year old Celia Sayak (ph), a business graduate, killed by the first bomb that targeted her best friend's wedding.
Christians, as well as Muslims, men, women and children were killed or injured in the blasts, underscoring the indiscriminate nature of the attacks.
And now, a growing realization among Jordanians, including Amonik (ph) himself. Public sentiment seems to be turning against militant religious fanaticism here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WAEL SALAH, MOURNER: (Inaudible) expecting to get from people. Normal people are more like me. In this country, you will not for sure get it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We all became one -- Christians, Muslims, even (INAUDIBLE) because I think some of their relatives have passed away through this explosion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OPPENHEIM: The king himself, reinforcing the bitterness.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING ABDULLAH II: There is tremendous outrage by the Jordanian public that these people have targeted just innocent people. And I can tell you that we Jordanians, we get mad and we get even and these people will be brought to justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SADLER: Zarqawi's bombs have also ignited a fierce debate here about the true meaning of Islam.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BASSEM-AWADALLAH, FORMER PLANNING MINISTER: This is the biggest threat against people like Zarqawi and others, who believe that they can hijack Islam and they can actually poison the minds of young people and get them as recruits in this vicious war against humanity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SADLER: A war Jordan now finds itself fighting on the frontline of terror.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SADLER: If as reported, Zarqawi's network has been able to recruit large numbers of suicide bombers in Iraq. That puts tremendous pressure on neighboring Jordan here to beef up its own intelligence services and to crack down on suspected Iraqi extremists living here because, in effect, Musab al-Zarqawi has declared war on this desert kingdom -- Anderson.
COOPER: Brent, is there a class difference in the way people are reacting to this? I mean, many of the people that we're seeing, many of the people who were probably at that hotel may be from the upper classes who could afford to have weddings at a western hotel, the Radisson. I mean, for the people who don't have jobs, who don't have access to opportunities, might they be more inclined to support Al- Zarqawi?
SADLER: That's a very good question, Anderson. Indeed, there are going to be splits in the society here. You are hearing on the streets of Jordan, from you say, the middle classes and the upper classes. If you speak to some of the impoverished parts of this nation, and some of them would not disagree with the fact that suicide bombers -- at least those with strong Islamic tendencies here, of the suicide bombers, two of them detonated themselves in bars, wasn't such a bad thing because of the alcohol aspect in there -- Anderson.
COOPER: Interesting. Brent Sadler, thank you very much. Great reporting, as always.
360 next. Dial B for bank robbery. Even without a headset, she's doing okay and police have yet to capture her. She's robbing a bank while she's on the phone. I'll show you why.
Also, the cool science of freezing eggs and postponing motherhood until the time is really right. Does it work? We'll show you the science behind it all.
And not holding doors, yakking on the cell phone -- even we're not robbing banks. How rude are we as a country? We'll be taking your polite questions, let's hope. Toll free number to call: 1-877- 648-3639. If you've got questions about etiquette, or just complaints about how rude people are out there, some examples of your own. Our number, 360, 1-877-648-3639.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Okay, I admit it. I'm a multi-tasker, with the laptop, the cell phone, the whole deal. Well, not exactly the whole deal. Watch this and you'll understand. CNN's Brian Todd explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She looks distracted, maybe even rude. But law enforcement officials in northern Virginia say this young lady is more focused than she appears.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEVE SIMPSON, SHERIFF, LOUDOUN COUNTY, VIRGINIA: In this particular bank, when she went in, was apparently on the cell phone when she went in the door, went over to the teller, handed her a note, opened up a brown purse and showed her there was a handgun inside the purse. The teller gave her the money and out the door she went.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD (on camera): At this bank and two others in northern Virginia -- law enforcement officials say the woman was on her cell phone the entire time she was conducting robberies. They say she's robbed a total of four banks in the area over the past month, all of them, branches of Wachovia Bank.
(Voice-over): No one's been and officials won't say how much money she's gotten away with. But there are key questions authorities say they cannot answer. Is she talking to an accomplice? Is the person at the other end directing her, reassuring her or even threatening her? Is there someone at the other end or is the phone just a prop?
Authorities and criminologists also have different theories on why she's using a phone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKI SCHNEIDER, PROFESSOR, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: She might be thinking that it's a distraction. She just looks like a normal person, talking on the cell phone. And the bank teller isn't suspicious in any way, shape or form and there's no guns blazing, there's no hooded, you know, scary people coming in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: Only a person described by authorities as a 5'5" Hispanic woman, 18 to 20 years old, with dark, curly hair and a unique MO. Brian Todd, CNN, Ashburn, Virginia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: A cool customer. If you have any information on the cell phone bandit, authorities want you to call Loudoun County Sheriff's Department, 703-777-1021.
Erica Hill, from "Headline News," joins us with some of the others stories we're following right now. Hi, Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, we begin with bloodshed in Iraq, where U.S. forces, involved in Operation Iron Curtain. Insurgents have fled, but left behind countless IEDs, improvised explosive devices. Five Marines were injured when they stepped on a pressure plate, triggering an explosion.
New information about the 14-year old accused of fatally shooting an assistant principal in Jacksboro, Tennessee. The student was previously treated at the Kingswood School -- that facility works children with drug and alcohol abuse programs -- problems, that is. In a statement, the school said it has no information as to whether he received all of the educational, counseling and treatment services he obviously needed after he withdrew into the care of his family.
It turns out last Saturday's attempted hijacking of a cruise ship on the Indian Ocean was apparently directed by a mysterious mother ship that is targeting boats off the coast of Somalia. In just the past five -- in just the past week, five ships have been attacked on the Indian Ocean.
Finally, It's not clear rif-raffer 50 Cents' new movie, "Get Rich or Die Trying," in any way inspires the violence, but a man was shot to death on Wednesday night in the lobby of a Lowe's theater near Pittsburgh. The movie has been pulled from the theater in Wilkinsburg. Lowe's will continue showing the film, however, at its other locations around the country.
Anderson, those are the headlines at this hour. Back over to you. Enjoy your weekend.
COOPER: All right, Erica. Thanks, too.
Coming up next on 360, keeping them on us. We're not forgetting the Gulf Coast and all those still in need.
Tonight, the levees and why the FBI is now investigating how they were built in the first place.
And a hot question: How long can women defer motherhood? With a cold answer: A long time if they freeze their eggs, say some doctors. We'll explain the risks and the costs.
Also tonight, what the bleep has happened to our manners? A rudeness study turns up some unbleep and believable answers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: We learned this week that the FBI is now investigating how the levees in New Orleans were built. And we're talking about sweet ordeals, shoddy construction, corruption, bad oversight -- they're looking into everything. They're not the only ones. Also, the state's Attorney General is also investigating. So is the district attorney.
Every night we've been keeping the focus on the Gulf in a segment we call "Keeping them Honest." It turns out that's what a lot of people in New Orleans are trying to do as well. At open town hall meetings, they're reminding the mayor and others of their frustrations and of their promises. CNN Daniel Sieberg reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RAY NAGIN, MAYOR, NEW ORLEANS: We have not demolished anything yet.
DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice-over): Each week, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin and other city officials get an earful from residents still reeling from Katrina's punch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAGIN: This city is at a very critical point in its history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIEBERG: Many are just trying to get by.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm angry. I'm mad and I'm upset. And I have the right to be because I will sleep in my car tonight and go to work in the morning -- to clean the streets of New Orleans. It's not right now. Somebody needs to do something. FEMA can't give me no answers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIEBERG: They come to talk about everything from preparing for the next hurricane, to simply getting back on their feet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two days ago, police was sent there from your office, saying that we had to be out within 36 hours. And no real good reason has been given.
NAGIN: I will do this. I will get, you know, our assistant city attorney -- assistant CAO to meet with you and we can -- I think she's here and we can ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that Cynthia ...
NAGIN: Cynthia Silvanlier ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cynthia Silvanlier is the person who told the police to kick us out. So she's not the person to help.
NAGIN: Hold tight. We will sit down and work through your issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIEBERG: The first of these town meetings, just two weeks ago, was no different. Residents demanded answers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is construction fraud. If these people that built and designed these levees, deliberately did not construct them, are there going to be criminal charges filed? I don't care about lawsuits for monetary damages. I want them to go to jail. And is this going to happen?
(END VIDEO CLIP) SIEBERG: But now they want specifics. And fast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got thousands of people spread out throughout the United States who wants to come home, but if you say we don't have power. They're basic necessities. OK. If (INAUDIBLE), you need to be -- I hate to say it -- shot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIEBERG: If nothing else, these meetings offer people a release.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need trailers, we need whatever we can because those people really want to come back home and I was told to come and see you and I'm glad for this opportunity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIEBERG: Mayor Nagin's office says it can only do so much with limited resources. The city recently laid off 3,000 workers and Nagin still faces a mammoth coordination effort with state and federal agencies. But with anger and frustration growing as each day passes without answers and solutions, these weekly meetings will likely get even uglier. Daniel Sieberg, CNN, New Orleans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Joining us live now from Baton Rouge, is New Orleans Council President Oliver Thomas. Mr. Thomas, thanks for being with us. It's good to see you again.
OLIVER THOMAS, COUNCIL PRESIDENT, NEW ORLEANS: Yes, hey Anderson, man, I appreciate your work.
COOPER: You know, U.S. Attorney Jim Letten and the FBI are now investigating the levee breaches, looking into possible corruption in the levee design, in the construction and oversight. Would you be surprised if they uncovered corruption?
THOMAS: No, I really wouldn't. The first two people I know who took a look at that was City Council Cynthia Morel (ph) and her husband, State Representative Arthur Morel (ph). They actually went out and got a couple pieces of the levee. And when they showed us the type of concrete and how you could kind of crack pieces of it in your hand and how thin it was and with the plastic coating that was in the inside of it, I thought well, if you can kind of break this off with your hand, how could a storm or a storm surge of water, how could you be protected from that? So no, I wouldn't be surprised at all. Because they uncovered it several months ago.
COOPER: Right. And the (INAUDIBLE) has now reported that Iver Van Heardon (ph) from LSU went out there, did sonar readings on some part of the levee, found that it was supposed to built, you know, to 17 feet. It was seven feet shorter than people had been told it was.
THOMAS: The LSU professor has been saying that for quite some time. That's one of the things that Mayor Landrieu has been fighting for based on reports by LSU and some of the models that they've done. She's been fighting with her colleagues in Congress and the U.S. Senate for the past hundred years, so it seems like, saying that hey look, you need to upgrade these levees, you need to protect us from coastal erosion, and they have not listened. You know, right now Senator Vitter and Landrieu and our local congress people are trying, but we're not getting the support we need from the rest of Congress.
COOPER: Well, yes, I heard Mayor Nagin was there and he, you know, he met with President Bush yesterday. He didn't receive any commitment that the levees would be rebuilt to withstand Category 5 storms. And I know there's a debate about that. Some say it doesn't need to be Category 5, just Category 3. Regardless of how you believe the levees should be rebuilt, it's amazing to me that Nagin can't get answers on it. I mean, he at the very least deserves some answers from the White House and from Washington.
THOMAS: Well, the one thing we did learn about these levees is that they couldn't even withstand a Category 3.
COOPER: That's right.
THOMAS: So we know we need something better than that. But, you know, New Orleans -- this is an international city. We're getting love from all over the world. Why would our U.S. Congress not give us the resources we need to protect us? We're putting trillions of dollars in the foreign governments and foreign countries every year. You mean to tell me Dutch deserves -- Holland deserves to be protected by a water system and a levee system more so than New Orleans? You know ...
COOPER: I read that Mayor Nagin said ...
THOMAS: -- this is one of the most precious places in the world.
COOPER: I read that Mayor Nagin said that he's starting to sense a little Katrina fatigue on the Hill in Washington. Do you think that's happening? I mean, we talked to a reporter down there who said no one's asking anymore questions about Katrina. No one even talks about it anymore on Capitol Hill.
THOMAS: Well, let me say, we had Katrina -- we had New Orleans fatigue, Gulf Coast fatigue, east Texas, Alabama and Mississippi fatigue before that. You know, and whenever you talk to a lot of these congressional people and Senators, the only thing they come up with is these lame excuses -- Well, we gave you our money before. Why didn't you use it for levees? Because it was earmarked for other purposes, guys. Don't you all know that? You know, and besides, the city isn't in charge of the levees. You know, we used the money for infrastructures.
COOPER: Yes. THOMAS: They keep trying to come up with excuses to let this city die. And let me tell you that I don't think they understand. The international community and national community loves New Orleans. They're not going to stand by and watch our own Congress let us die. And that's what's happening right now. They keep trying to come up the reasons, well you guys have corruption down there. Well, you guys, you should have used the money to help your levee. Well, you should have did this. Well, we need your help right now. Our city's fading away. And you're not going to help us?
COOPER: And the help is not going to come unless a lot of people continue to focus on this, including the media and we're trying to do our part. Council President Oliver Thomas, it's always good to talk to you. I appreciate you joining us tonight.
THOMAS: And Anderson, be careful when you fly Delta because I missed an important meeting because I had 15 minutes to go and Delta wouldn't let me go to a meeting on a storm. So be careful when you fly them.
COOPER: You've been waiting like all day since that flight to say that, haven't you?
THOMAS: Yes, I have because they should have -- I had an important meeting and the flight was -- could have left in 15 minutes. They could have let me on.
COOPER: All right. Council President Thomas, thanks very much.
I guess, you know, hasn't everyone wanted to do that when you're on a flight and say, you know, I want to be on TV and say the airline's name. I guess he just did.
360 next. Can women beat the biological clock by putting their eggs on ice? Cutting edge medicine that is making some big promises, too big, perhaps.
And raised by wolves, we want to hear your most outrageous stories of rude behavior. Do you feel like Americans are getting more rude? You have examples of it? Give us a call, toll free number 1- 877-648-3639; or if you want to get a little etiquette check on what maybe not rude behavior. Give us a call.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: We're getting a lot of e-mails for our call-in segment a little bit later on, on rudeness in America. But first, in the last our we check in with Alida (ph) St. James, who gave birth to twins a year ago, when she was 56.
Now, she had the babies through en vitro fertilization, using a younger donors eggs, which is generally the only option for most women much over 40 who want to conceive a child. Biological clock waits for no one. No one without a Y chromosome, that is. Of course, men can father children well into their old age. But women, are born with all the eggs they'll ever have and clock starts ticking from birth. But what if you could suspend the eggs in time by freezing them, literally? Could that stop the clock? CNN's Adaora Udoji investigates.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you give me five?
ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Laurie Nelson yearns to have children, but never expected that age-old desire would bring her to the cutting edge of reproductive medicine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know on my 36th birthday I thought, OK, I got to -- you know, I got to get busy here. I got to do something.
UDOJI: Laurie, a yoga teacher, and part-time student, hasn't found her Mr. Right. And she knows her biological clocks ticking. Surveys show most women don't understand how quickly.
A woman's fertility peaks in her 20s, by her late 30s her eggs are deteriorating, making it more difficult to get pregnant and increasing the risk of genetic defects. By age 40, two-thirds of women cannot conceive naturally.
Laurie, now 37, was worried her chances of motherhood were slipping away until a friend told her about egg freezing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was really surprised that there was actually technology available now to freeze eggs, unfertilized.
UDOJI: Men have long been able to freeze sperm. But women's eggs are much more fragile. Thousands of children have been conceived from frozen embryos. Only about 125 children have come from frozen eggs, but that number is growing.
Christy Jones just started Extend Fertility, a company that offers and promotes the experimental treatment.
CHRISTY JONES, EXTEND FERTILITY: I do think its revolutionary in the same way that the birth control pill was to our parents generation. And that gave women so many more options.
UDOJI (on camera): But does it work? Doctors have been experimenting since the mid-80s, but there have been so few studies, in fact so few patients it is nearly impossible to know how successful it is.
(voice-over): Specialists in Italy are claiming major advances, a 17 percent pregnancy success rate in 500 attempts.
DR. ALAN B. COPPERMAN, REPRODUCTIVE MEDICINE ASSOCIATES: There she is looking with her pipette; she sucks it into her pipette.
UDOJI: Doctor Alan Copperman, a member of Extend Fertility's medical advisory board, said three out of four of his patients that tried the treatment, got pregnant. That number is far too small to be medically significant, but he says it offers hope.
COPPERMAN: You know, 10 years ago, a women sitting down in front of me, I didn't even discuss this as an option. Today, I think it is irresponsible not to.
UDOJI (on camera): Because?
COPPERMAN: Because the technology is getting better and better.
UDOJI (voice-over): But critics say its not good enough. The procedure is also expensive, at about $10,000 and they say, it can offer women false hope.
DR. ZEV ROSENWACS, NY PRESBYTERIAN-WEILL CORNELL: We don't think its justified to charge these women a certain amount of money, with the knowledge that they have a 20 percent -- at best -- insurance policy.
UDOJI: But Laurie is glad to have those odds, if they can help fulfill her dream of being a mom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel very fortunate to have been able to have done it and to have this option, to take the edge off.
UDOJI: Adaora Udoji, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: It's a tough decision to make. Earlier tonight I talked to Doctor Alan Copperman, director of reproductive endocrinology at Mt. Sinai Hospital, here in New York, and also with Megan Griswold, who recently had her eggs frozen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: So, how does the procedure work? We're not talking about frozen embryos, we're talking about frozen eggs?
COPPERMAN: Sure, what we do is we find a woman, we counsel her appropriately, and if she is a candidate for egg freezing, we give her fertility medications for about a week. She grows a whole bunch of eggs and then we go in and, one by one, we retrieve the eggs and we freeze them for safe keeping.
COOPER: There are, you know, there are many critics out there. Some of them will say, well, look, that these eggs degrade rapidly and that you're giving women false hope that freezing a woman's eggs in her 30s, she ends up with the same quality of eggs she would have had naturally in her 40s.
COPPERMAN: I don't think that that's true. Perhaps five or 10 years ago the technology wasn't there. Today we're seeing almost 90 percent of the eggs that we're freezing, thawing out appropriately, many of them fertilizing. And even recently, three out of four women that we implanted them into became pregnant. COOPER: If there have only been a 100, or a couple of 100 kids born through this procedure, do you have enough evidence yet to say 100 percent it is safe? That there is no, you know, chromosomal damage in these kids?
COPPERMAN: That's a great question. The first question we have with any new technology, is it safe, and is it effective? So what we need to do is have these collaborative studies, like we're doing now, with Extend Fertility. Centers around the United States working together and trying to use the same protocol and really get credible results. And also follow these babies out there and make sure that they're OK.
COOPER: But at this point, you don't have the hard evidence. You just -- I mean, you are going ahead with it, but you don't have the studies completed?
COPPERMAN: Exactly. Preliminary data from 100s of babies born in the world, at this point, are that it is safe and effective.
COOPER: Megan, you had this done. Does that concern you? Does the safety aspect concern you?
MEGAN GRISWOLD, COMPLETED EGG FREEZING PROCEDURE: No, I'm -- that didn't concern me. I trust the doctors and the research that exists. And I feel like every technology has a beginning and I'm really thankful to be a part of that beginning.
COOPER: Why did you decide to go ahead, Megan, with this particular procedure?
GRISWOLD: Well, it was last Christmas, and I was thinking about the year that I'd had and the year to come and what I wanted in my life. And at the top of that list was being a mother and I wasn't in a position to do so. So, I decided to pursue speaking with Extend Fertility.
COOPER: Was it painful at all?
GRISWOLD: No, I mean, not unlike having your wisdom teeth pulled, where they just sort of -- what, put you under twilight sleep? They are just working on a different area. It actually wasn't painful at all.
COOPER: Any regrets at this point? I mean, what is your advice to women out there who may be considering this?
GRISWOLD: Absolutely. I mean, I feel really fortunate to have taken advantage of it. And I don't think you -- I don't know if you can put a price tag the peace of mind in preserving an option. There are no guarantees, but I feel really good about it. I'd absolutely encourage women to do it.
COOPER: You have now, frozen eggs, but you have not taken the next step, is that correct?
GRISWOLD: No, I have not taken the next step. Yes, they just went -- frozen a little while ago.
COOPER: I'm trying to use euphemisms here.
GRISWOLD: What?
COOPER: I'm trying to use euphemisms here.
GRISWOLD: Right.
COOPER: But as you said they were frozen a little while ago, and ...
GRISWOLD: They were frozen in the spring.
COOPER: And how many eggs do you have frozen?
GRISWOLD: I have 14 frozen, right now.
COOPER: And Doctor Copperman, is there a limit on how many you can have frozen? Is it -- is it a -- do you pay per egg? How does that work?
COPPERMAN: No, you pay for procedure. Some women will have 10 or 15 in one procedure. Some women may take two or three times to give them medications, go in and retrieve the eggs to get that many.
COOPER: Why do this and not IVF?
COPPERMAN: Well, if a woman has a partner or a sperm source -- to extend your euphemism -- then potentially we can fertilize the eggs, make embryos. And we've been freezing embryos for even longer than we've been freezing eggs. If a woman does not have a partner, then the only option we have is to freeze these eggs.
COOPER: All right. Doctor Copperman, it is a fascinating brave new world and it's here, it's happening. So we wanted to know the most about it. Thanks for being with us.
COPPERMAN: Thank you.
COOPER: And Megan, thanks for being with us as well, Megan Griswold.
GRISWOLD: Thank you.
COOPER: And good luck to you.
GRISWOLD: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Coming up next on 360, the land of the free and the home of the rude. More and more Americans are seeing manners go out the window. What do you think about that? Do you think more people are rude? Have examples of it? Give us a call, we're going to explore rudeness in America with some experts. Take your calls, the toll free number is 1-877-648-3639. If you want to know if your behavior is rude or if you want to just complain about other's rudeness, feel free to call.
And look out Reg -- here I come. I'll tell you about my morning in Regis Philbin's seat and show you how tough his job really is.
This is 360.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: "Rude" may be a four-letter word, but manners seem more taboo these days. Excuse mes, and thank yous, have given way to phrases that -- well, I can't really say on television. A lot of you feel this way. A recent poll by the Associated Press shows that seven out of 10 Americans believe that people are ruder now than they were just a couple of decades ago.
So the question is what's happened to us. Take a look.
What the (EXPLETIVE DELETED)! I said roll the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) tape! Roll the tape.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): The timeless grace of Audrey Hepburn and Jackie O.; the elegance of Cary Grant or Fred Astaire, all icons of politeness and poise. Throwbacks to a day when manners mattered, at home and on TV.
ANNOUNCER: Here's a tip you'll appreciate. It pays to have a smile that's bright.
PAMELA FIORI, "TOWN & COUNTRY" MAGAZINE: It used to be that even if a woman powdered her nose this would be sort of a breach of conduct. I mean, now people feel that they can do almost anything in public.
COOPER: Anything is right. Whether it is the talk to the hand, because the face ain't listening mentality, made infamous on Jerry Springer, or the in-your-face paparazzi, or everyday people bumping along not carrying to hold the door, thank you very much. They're too busy talking on cell phones, often very loudly, with expletives included.
Americans have become oblivious, it seems, to anyone else and downright rude.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People that cough and sneeze and don't say excuse me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you're walking and people just push right into you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vile pig!
COOPER (voice-over): The Associated Press poll found 69 percent of people blame celebrities and public figures for our behaving badly. Which got us thinking, in 2005, what does it mean to have manners?
We looked to polite society's bible, "Town & Country" and found that its not all about which way you spoon your soup, but rather manners are based on an ideal of empathy. Of imaging the impact of one's actions on others.
And what the rude among us don't realize is failing to do that, often backfires.
FIORI: You might get what you want for the moment, but in the long term people are just going to say, God, that person is simply awful. I don't want to do anything for them.
COOPER: Going back to that AP poll, 93 percent of Americans say parents are to blame for ill-mannered offspring, so the remedy may begin at home. And of course, it takes a little know-how.
COOPER (on camera): So, applying lipstick that the dinner table -- my mom does this all the time and it freaks me out.
LYNNE TRUSS, AUTHOR, "TALK TO THE HAND": Oh, yes. Well, actually ...
COOPER: It seems weird.
TRUSS: No, I don't like to see it and I think it is an intimate thing.
COOPER: Yes. Yes! It is very intimate. They get into the mirror, and they like get lost in it. And you're like -- should I leave?
TRUSS: Should I leave?
COOPER (voice-over): But mostly it may be as simple as making an effort to care.
FIORI: When you say thank you, I'm sorry, I apologize, and you seem grateful something -- watch! You just watch how much better life will seem.
COOPER: But should we correct the less enlightened among us? Yes, say the etiquette experts, but gently, and of course, with tact.
FIORI: Tact, as someone once said, is telling someone how to go to hell in such a way they actually look forward to the journey.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Joining me now, a couple of people who know more than a few things about being polite, in Washington, Letitia Baldrige, former White House social secretary and chief of staff to Jaclyn Kennedy and author of "Letitia Baldrige's New Manners For New Times". And in Cincinnati, Ohio, Lisamarie Luccioni, etiquette instructor at the University of Cincinnati.
Thank you both so much for being with us. Letitia, especially you, I know we kept you waiting.
LETITIA BALDRIGE, MANNERS EXPERT: Yes, how about that. You're mother -- I know your mother and she has beautiful manners and she's older. And here you kept this old lady.
COOPER: I know. How do I apologize correctly?
(LAUGHTER)
BALDRIGE: Just promise the next time you have me on at 7 o'clock.
COOPER: I promise and I very much thank you for being with us. It is truly an honor to have you here.
BALDRIGE: Well, it's a good subject.
COOPER: It is. And it is an important subject. Do you think people are ruder now than ever before?
BALDRIGE: I think they are just because the parents haven't taught them. But the parents weren't taught by their grandparents. We've had, since 1970 we've had people not teaching people about good manners. We had the youth rebellion in the '70s, we had the hippies, we had everybody throwing manners down the drain. And we haven't recovered from that.
COOPER: Yes.
BALDRIGE: Generations of people, and it really is teaching people how to care about one another. It's not foppish, it's not artificial. It's not snobby.
COOPER: And Lisa Marie, you work with kids. Do you find that they want to know the right way to do things?
LISAMARIE LUCCIONI, ETIQUETTE INSTRUCTOR, UNIV. CINCINNATI: Anderson, absolutely. I teach at the University of Cincinnati and I tell you what, what originally started off as one-credit seminar has blossomed into various colleges. There is such a need and such a demand for this. You know -- I'm sorry?
COOPER: I was just going to say, talk about demand, we actually have a ton of calls and e-mails tonight. I want to try to get to them, because I want to get in as many as possible.
Stacey, in Atlanta, has a question. Stacey go ahead.
CALLER: Hi, Anderson. A couple of months ago, I was driving through a parking garage looking for a parking space. And I could hear someone behind me honking and repeatedly. And I realized that the person was honking at me. Apparently I wasn't going fast enough.
So I finally pulled over to the side, to let this person go around me. And I realized it was a woman who was in a class that I usually go to. And so after class I went and said something to her. And she became extremely belligerent. And I was just wondering if I should have just let it go? Or was I right in saying something?
COOPER: Ms. Baldrige, should she have let it go?
BALDRIGE: Lesson number one, always let it go. Because they may have a knife or a croquette mallet with you, hit you over the head. Do not ever confront anybody, just slink away and say I pray for that person who so is so bad mannered. I pray that they get better.
COOPER: You don't drive around with a croquette mallet do you, Ms. Baldrige?
BALDRIGE: No, but I at times I -- well, now I have a cane.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: OK.
BALDRIGE: And I do use the cane, upon occasion.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: We have another question, Dorian in Florida. Dorian, what's your question?
CALLER: Hi. I'm way beyond etiquette shock (ph). Walking down aisle in a clothing store and having to listen horrible, awful conversations in another aisle. Which I find -- I think it should be against the law and that's what I'm throwing out to you. This is awful.
COOPER: Lisamarie, I mean, people talking on their cell phones now as if no one else is around. What do you do about that?
LUCCIONI: Yes, I'll tell you what, I don't know if there -- when you are out in public, Anderson, if there really is a lot that you can do, other than perhaps tolerate it or remove yourself from the situation. I think the problem, as Letitia's has pointed out, is that people are just unaware that they are personal behavior at that moment has an impact on everybody surrounding them, because they're in their own world. They are oblivious to others. And again, it is the empathy. It's the being aware, it is understanding that your action at that particular moment has an impact on person B through Z.
COOPER: Yes, think about other people. That's the key.
Jenny in Long View, Washington, has a question. Jenny, go ahead.
CALLER: Hey, Anderson. You know, what I'm wondering, has friendly customer service become completely non-existent? I mean, I've had experiences at Wal-Mart where I've had to go through almost three employees to get someone to turn around, when you go to ask, you know, where maybe something is on the shelf.
COOPER: Yes. No, I totally know what you mean.
CALLER: And they have timers ... COOPER: I totally know what you mean. Ms. Baldrige -- I mean, it used be that the customer was always right.
BALDRIGE: Yes, but they used to have a lot staff, and now they don't. And so how are you going to get -- you can't get somebody to wait on you. And so actually, what you could do is just walk out of the store with a lot of stolen goods. But we don't want anybody to do that. I'm surprised there isn't more theft in stores.
LUCCIONI: Anderson ...
COOPER: Lisamarie, go ahead.
LUCCIONI: Yes, Anderson, I'll tell you what, I know that I totally empathize with that situation having worked in customer service myself, to put myself through college. And I know there is a great tendency for us as humans to go into a store and if we get bad customer service from one particular person we have a tendency to think that every person who is in customer service, in that specific store, is that same way. When in fact, that is not necessarily the case.
So -- but it is true that stores do need to be aware of this, because it just takes one person with a bad attitude that can, you know, encourage us and prompt us to not to go back to that store.
COOPER: Lisamarie ...
BALDRIGE: Also ...
COOPER: Go ahead, Ms. Baldrige.
BALDRIGE: Also we, as customers, we ought to smile at the people waiting on us, we ought to say thank you. You did a nice job. Thanks for helping me.
LUCCIONI: Absolutely.
BALDRIGE: It's our job to be nice to them, so that they'll be nice to us.
COOPER: That is a great point, Lisamarie Luccioni, it is great talking to you.
LUCCIONI: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: And Letitia Baldrige, it is an honor to have you on the program. We'd love to have you back at a much earlier hour.
BALDRIGE: Thank you. At a much earlier hour.
COOPER: And the book it "Letitia Baldrige's New Manners for New Times". Thank you both.
LUCCIONI: Thank you.
BALDRIGE: Thank you.
COOPER: Coming up next on 360, forget about this late-night gig, how does "Live With Anderson & Kelly" sound? Yep, I tried to fill in Regis' seat, but you know he's got such big shoes, there is no way I could. We'll show you my poor performance ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Unless you're named O'Brien or Blitzer, you don't normally get a chance to star on three hours of quality television. Today was my lucky day. Early this morning I took over for Regis Philbin on the hit show "Live with Regis & Kelly". How I'd do? Yes? Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Here are Kelly Ripa and Anderson Cooper.
COOPER (voice-over): I filled in for Regis this morning and I got to say, it's not easy. I had done it once before, but that didn't go so well.
KELLY RIPA, "LIVE WITH REGIS & KELLY": We've always been your fans.
COOPER (on camera): I co-hosted five years ago, and I was so good it's been five years since you had me back.
(voice-over): The first 15 minutes of the show is the toughest, it's unscripted chat.
(On camera): Did you hear about this riot in New York yesterday?
(voice-over): But luckily, Kelly Ripa is a master at keeping the conversation going.
RIPA (on camera): Women cursing at each other, screaming, pushing and shoving. We just call that Thursday here in New York.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER (voice-over): I learned a couple of things today. First, I have a really annoying laugh.
(LAUGHTER)
It's not really a laugh at all. It's like a chortle.
For me the high point was making Kelly laugh.
COOPER (on camera): They say you look like a roadie for Peter, Paul & Mary.
(LAUGHTER)
It's so unfair. I mean ... (voice-over): Things were going great, until the last interview, with Nicole Richie came out. First, there was the awkward introduction. Let's watch that again.
See, she's coming out and I'm thinking to I shake her hand? Do I hug? Do I kiss? One cheek or two? I decided to go for a peck on the cheek. But then she started to reach out her hand. See, right there? That made me pause. And then I went in for a brief kiss -- and boom, awkward TV.
When the interview began I realized I really had nothing to ask her. She was there to promote a new book, a novel based on her life. But I couldn't think of a thing I really wanted to know. Thank goodness, Kelly is such a pro.
RIPA: How did you become an author all of a sudden?
COOPER (voice-over): Finally, when I did come up with a question, it was the exact question Nicole Richie didn't want asked.
COOPER (on camera): Sounds a lot like Paris Hilton.
(voice-over): Once again, Kelly Ripa came to the rescue.
COOPER (on camera): I don't know much about it, but ...
RIPA: I'm so glad you asked that because I still want to go to the wedding.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER (voice-over): So what did I learn filling in for Regis? Well, I learned Kelly Ripa is smart, funny, and really talented. And I learned, I had better not quit my night job.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: I love Kelly Ripa. Stay with us, 360 continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Thanks for watching 360. Have a great weekend, see you Monday.
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