Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
On Katrina's Waves; A Family's Grief; A Hero's Hunch; Held in Iraq; Who is Hamas?; Oprah Fires Back
Aired January 26, 2006 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: 360 investigates how the crash occurred and probes how it could have been avoided.
BARBARA MANN, MOTHER OF CHILDREN KILLED: They just happy children.
ANNOUNCER: Savannah murder mystery. A privileged debutante, allegedly shot and killed by a mugger, still at large. Old wounds now reopened.
DAVID SIMONS, POLITICAL CONSULTANT: White population, now we could put a face with crime.
MICHAEL PORTER, COLUMNIST: A lot of black folks felt that, hey, our kids get killed too.
ANNOUNCER: Igniting outrage over race, class and crime.
From across the U.S. and around the world, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360. Live from the CNN studios in New York, here's Anderson cooper.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, good evening. Thanks for joining us. A lot to get to tonight, but first a look at some of the other stories we're following at this moment.
In the Middle East, the first Palestinian parliamentary election in a decade has reshuffled power in the troubled region. Preliminary vote totals show the militant group Hamas, which the U.S. considers a terrorist group, has won 76 seats. It is a crushing victory over the ruling Fatah party, which won 43 seats. Today, Fatah supporters blame Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas for the loss, as the Fatah led cabinet resigned.
A scramble in the Senate over Supreme Court Nominee Samuel Alito. A top Republican Bill Frisk filed a motion to shut down debate on the nomination on Monday. This as Senators Edward Kennedy and John Kerry lobbied their fellow Democrats to filibuster the nomination. Two other Senate Democrats broke ranks today and threw their support behind Judge Alito.
And a major step for Sago Mine Survivor Randy McCloy, Jr. The 26-year-old miner has moved from the hospital where he's been receiving treatment to a rehab facility where he'll continue his recovery. It's been more than three weeks since he was pulled from the mine, after being trapped for 41 hours. We begin this hour with stunning video from Hurricane Katrina. The video that we are showing you tonight for the very first time, today was the first time we saw it. It comes to us exclusively from a shrimp boat captain who was on his boat in the water with his crew when the heavy rains and winds exceeding 120 miles an hour came crashing through. CNN's Sean Callebs has their remarkable story and the powerful images.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Never before seen pictures of Hurricane Katrina's fury. It's the way Kent Frelich and his crew of three saw it, riding out the hurricane aboard a shrimp boat in southeast Louisiana, near the town of Empire.
(On camera): The full fury of Katrina hit in the wee hours, about the time the 39-year-old remembered he had a video camera on board.
KENT FRELICH, BOAT CAPTAIN: And this is debris coming down the canal. It's kind of hard to see in the dark, but you can see big pieces of debris coming down the canal as the water's coming in.
CALLEBS: At this point, (unintelligible) losing their house?
FRELICH: Oh yes.
CALLEBS (voice-over): Others that night were moored near Frelich, including a small boat that he saw sink. He thought the two men on board had surely drowned, until daylight.
FRELICH: This is when we realized they were alive. Right here. There -- that's them. They were on that boat and they made their way up to the top of the ice machine and that's where they spent the storm.
CALLEBS: Then, exhausted and covered in diesel fuel, the two swam and crawled toward Frelich's boat.
FRELICH: These are the guys making their way back to the boat. They were on that ice machine, and he's just in debris -- that's debris that's piled up against the boat.
CALLEBS: Both men survived. Later, a different rescue operation.
FRELICH: And this is -- that's a dog on top of my forklift. He made it.
CALLEBS: The dog is now called Empire.
About an hour later, calm from the eye of the storm gave way to strong westerly winds.
FRELICH: You can hear the ropes cracking actually in the background. See the waves coming in? CALLEBS: But the crew knew they'd weathered the storm.
FRELICH: We had then been the worst and we knew we had it made at this point.
CALLEBS: Hours later, when the rain stopped, the crew couldn't believe the widespread devastation. At this point, they were running on adrenaline. Awake for nearly 40 hours. Frelich knew he had a great story, a videotape; but most importantly, he was still alive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CALLEBS (on camera): Alive here in Plaquemines Parish. If you look over my right shoulder, way back there, the Mississippi River. It's hard to believe that during the storm, the river climbed all the way up this levee, swamping this Parish.
Well, history told Frelich that would probably happen again in this hurricane and he says that's why he chose to ride out the storm on his boat. And he wants to make it clear. This wasn't the act of some cowboy or some reckless act. He tied that boat off very well. It had been tied off in 32 different places, with enough slack to let the water go up 25 feet without the boat coming lose.
And Frelich is operating down here about an hour and a half from where we're standing right now. He has a shrimp boat out there. He also has a contract with an oil boat to run crews out to the various rigs out there. So, so many other boats in this community are still -- Anderson, you've been down here, you've seen them -- are still smashed against the levees, against the bridges. But Frelich is up and working and he says it's because he planned this out. It was a very thoughtful action that he and his crew took and it paid off in the end, despite those dramatic pictures.
And about those two guys, those very haunting images of those two guys crawling through the debris -- he says once they got on the boat and got cleaned up, they gave them some food. He said they went right to sleep as if nothing had happened to them. Tough guys. He calls them warriors.
COOPER: Amazing. Sean, thanks very much. Sean Callebs, reporting tonight from Plaquemines Parish.
In Florida, investigators are preparing to file charges in the deadly crash that happened yesterday on a highway near Gainesville. School had just ended for the day and more than a dozen children were on their way home. That's when the three vehicles collided, in dry weather, with good visibility. In that instant a family was shattered. Here's CNN's Susan Candiotti.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the flash of an eye, all seven people in a car -- seven children -- dead.
MANN: They just happy children. My babies. CANDIOTTI: Four of the dead were Barbara Mann's children, ages 3 to 15. Plus, a 20-month-old boy and two cousins, 13 and 9.
PASTOR SCOTT FISHER, FAMILY SPOKESMAN: We're a small community, close-knit. And it's just been real hard.
CANDIOTTI: Police say the driver of a tractor trailer going about 60 miles an hour, barreled into the Mann's car, rolled over it, and smacked into a school bus letting off children.
11-year-old Dalton Sumner and his 12-year-old brother Cody were on the bus and remember the terrifying moments before impact.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A semi was honking his horn behind us and it hit the car between the bus and the semi. I heard a big bang and I just felt us spinning around, felt like we was going to flip and we just went into the ditch and hit a tree.
CANDIOTTI: The youngster was in a daze, separated from his brother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I walked off of the bus and I was walking around for a little while and I got on my knees and laid down and I remember that I couldn't move at all.
CANDIOTTI: The kids on the bus had no idea about the children in the car that hit them. The Manns were heading home after school, then going to church. 15-year-old Nicki (ph) Mann was driving the car. Her cousin says she had a good day at school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was happy because she had just got second place in the science fair. So, I mean, she was real happy about that and was talking to me about that kind of stuff. And I knew she wanted to get home so that she could tell her parents about it.
CANDIOTTI: Nicki (ph) was behind the wheel illegally. At just 15, her learner's permit required she have an adult with her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even though she was an underage driver, it's my understanding that she did not cause the accident.
CANDIOTTI: When Barbara Mann's father heard about the accident, he suffered a fatal heart attack.
MANN: He loved all our kids. We was real close.
CANDIOTTI: Investigators say the truck driver told them he wasn't paying attention on this straight stretch of highway on a clear day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No skid marks, no indication, no evidence at all that shows that he even made any attempt to brake.
CANDIOTTI: Truck Driver Alvin Wilkerson's blood is being tested for drugs and alcohol. Records show he's had some minor scrapes with the law, including driving with a revoked or suspended license. At the local high school, classmates wrote messages of support. "We will miss you," is one. Counselors are ready to help them and survivors on the school bus, all searching for answers.
Susan Candiotti, CNN, Lake Butler, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Unbelievable.
Tonight, an Atlanta woman is being hailed as a hero for rescuing a little girl police say was raped. Now the hero didn't even know the girl and she didn't see the crime happen. She also didn't know the alleged rapist or his wife who are now behind bars. She simply did something that all too often many of us fail to do. She acted when her gut told her something wasn't right. A lesson for us all. CNN's Rick Sanchez has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICH SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Take a look at this surveillance video taken inside a store in south Alabama. You see the little girl in the middle of the picture? Is there anything about her or the couple that she's with that strikes you as odd or suspicious?
This Atlanta woman, who was in that same store says, yes.
TRACIE DEAN, GOOD SAMARITAN: It was very clear to me that something was wrong. I've seen that look before, that blank look, that there's something missing. I consider it like they're missing love.
SANCHEZ: Call it a hunch or intuition, but the little girl, Tracie thought, seemed to want to get away, but just couldn't express it. She was with an older man who was encouraging Tracie to get out of the store, but there was something about the little girl who seemed to want to cling to Tracie.
DEAN: And I got back to my car and I said, oh my God, she was trying to come with me.
SANCHEZ: Tracie did something else when she got in her car to drive away. She jotted the man's license tag and called 911, and got a call back, telling her all was fine, just a man with his granddaughter was what she recalls the 911 operator saying.
DEAN: She said oh, it all checked out. So I said, okay, you know, sorry. But when I hung up, I thought hmm, you know, that's not right.
SANCHEZ: Back at her home, outside Atlanta, Tracie immediately got on her computer and began checking Web sites that list missing children. She also called police in Alabama to check if they had new information. Then she called the store to see if they had some type of surveillance video. (On camera): Did you ever experience something you simply could not get out of your mind? For Tracie, it got so bad. A full five days after returning home here to Decatur, Georgia, she decided she would act. She got back in her car and headed back to Alabama, back to the store where she had come across the sad little girl. There, she went inside and approached the woman behind the counter.
DEAN: We told her what happened. We showed her the picture. Immediately she said I know exactly who you're talking about.
SANCHEZ: Police arrived and soon she got the response that seemed to prove her intuition right. This is what she was told by police after they found the little girl and the couple she was with.
DEAN: He goes, Tracie, girl, you were right on. He said something's not right here. He said, I don't know what's going to happen yet, but the name this guy gave us we feel is a false name and that guy's a wanted sex offender.
TRACY HAWSEY, SHERIFF, CONECUH COUNTY: We ran some checks and found out that the gentleman by the name of Jack Wiley (ph), had an arson warrant that was active from California.
SANCHEZ: Then, the bombshell.
HAWSEY: Mr. Wiley (ph) had been having sex with the 3-year-old girl.
SANCHEZ: Tracie's hunch was on target. The woman on the videotape told police a sorted tale of sexual abuse involving the little girl and because of it, Jack Wiley (ph), the man on the videotape is being held by Alabama authorities on a $3 million bond, and charged with two counts of first-degree rape.
As for the woman, Glenna Faye Marshall, she says she's the little girl's mother. She's been charged with child abuse and her bond is set at $2 million.
HAWSEY: It's hard to believe that a mother could be involved in letting that happen to her child; but based on the physical evidence, how could she not know it's going on? If she knew it was going on, then what was she doing?
SANCHEZ: Police say the pair lived on the road, traveling to stock car events, where they sold trinkets. And police say, they've admitted to sexual encounters with other children.
(On camera): A lot of people would say why did you keep going when you got so many roadblocks.
DEAN: My heart. I told my sister over and over, I kept telling her, when my heart tells me to let this go, I'm going to let it go.
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Tracie says something told her she was the little girl's only chance. She may have been right.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (on camera): You know what this story does? It makes you want to go home and hug your kids just a little bit tighter, especially when you consider what this woman has told police.
She told police that they had sexual encounters with many children in their travels all over the country.
By the way, police are doing a DNA test to try and determine if she really is the little girl's mother. This is what they want you to do, if you know these two people, if you have any kind of information that you think could help police as they continue to investigate this pair, they want you to call this number. It's a number they usually staff during office hours, but it's a number you can call, 1-800- TIPUSOFF.
And if you consider what this woman did to be in any way a small feat, I checked it out tonight before going on the air. Anderson, how long do you think it takes to drive from Atlanta to Evergreen, Alabama, where she went?
COOPER: I don't, how long?
SANCHEZ: Four hours. That's a long drive for someone to just take, to do an investigation.
COOPER: It's incredible.
SANCHEZ: What she says, police should have done.
COOPER: Well, also, I mean, it's such a lesson to follow your gut. You know, if you have a gut instinct on something, you know, don't just kind of dismiss it as not important.
Rick, great story. Thank you very much.
SANCHEZ: Thanks.
COOPER: Let's try to put up those pictures there if we can and also that number. Again, 1-800-TIPUSOFF.
An American taken hostage in Iraq. The latest in the fight to save Jill Carroll's life.
Also we'll talk to a reporter who was kidnapped from the streets of Iraq and he will tell you what it feels like.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... any kind of road map for peace left in the Middle East now?
MATT HORN, AMERICAN JEWISH CONGRESS: No. Regrettably, I think that that everybody's often...
COOPER: Hamas in charge. Sworn enemies of Israel sweep the Palestinian elections. How can it influence what the U.S. does in the Middle East. Find out next. Also tonight, Oprah's apology. The explosive showdown between the talk show host and the author she once defended, but no more.
Across America and around the world, this is 360.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Tonight, the fate of an American journalist held hostage in Iraq remains unknown. Jill Carroll was abducted January 7. Her captors said they would kill the 28-year-old unless all Iraqi women in detention were freed. Well, that deadline passed six days ago. Today, the U.S. military released five Iraqi women from custody. Officials said it was not linked to the demands made by the hostage takers. But could their release help free Carroll? Tonight I took that up with Michael Ware. He's the Baghdad Bureau Chief for "TIME" Magazine. He knows Jill Carroll and was once taken hostage himself. I talked to him earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: So today, U.S. military releases five Iraqi female detainees. Does it make any difference in the Jill Carroll situation?
MICHAEL WARE, TIME MAGAZINE BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Well, I think it's going to play into the mix somehow. In what manner, we don't know yet, but this definitely going to be painted by the insurgents or the kidnappers as a win for them.
COOPER: Yes, how can it not be because, I mean, the U.S. has gone to great lengths to say, oh, look, this was in the works anyway. This is not a quid pro quo, but...
WARE: It doesn't matter how they try to spin it, Anderson. I mean, this is going to be seen as a coo (ph). The great fear is this now makes it open season on journalists in Iraq. This is the first thing that can be perceived as a concession by the U.S. military or the Iraqi government. I'm afraid that this could be the thin end of the wedge.
COOPER: It's also, I mean I think a lot of people don't get what it's like working in Iraq, kind of the risk that you take, you know, just on a daily basis, just stepping outside. Jill Carroll was one of those people. She was basically a freelancer. She didn't have a security detail. And, you know, when I first heard about it, it sent shudders through me because that's how I started, you know, just bumming around with myself, a little home video camera.
WARE: Yes, look, it's frightening. I mean, Iraq is not a story that can easily be covered by freelancers who are operating on a shoestring budget. I mean, to move outside of a secure hotel compound, you need at least two vehicles. You need two, three, four armed gunmen. You need a driver, a translator. That costs money.
COOPER: When I was last in Iraq, one of our security guys said to me, you know, you have to decide would you want to be taken. Would you allow yourself to be taken? That's a decision everyone has to make.
Have you -- I mean, you've had some very close calls.
WARE: I've been taken, yes.
COOPER: You were taken.
WARE: Yes. Yes. As far as we're aware, I'm the only Westerner to have been in the custody of Zarqawi's al Qaeda organization and to have so far lived to tell the tale.
COOPER: And what was it like?
WARE: I was only held very, very briefly. They swarmed my vehicle, intercepting it in the street. They hauled me out with weapons and live grenades with the pins pulled. And then they immediately had me on one of Zarqawi's infamous banners and were preparing to execute me there, just off the street.
When they pulled me out, they took me around behind the building where there was another banner and they thrust me down beneath that and were preparing to kill me then and there and to film it with my own video camera.
COOPER: In those first moments, when you were taken and when you realized, you know, what's happening, you suddenly realize, oh my God, this is -- this is it.
WARE: Yes.
COOPER: What goes through your mind?
WARE: Put it this way. It took me a long time to recover from that first moment, Anderson, if I have at all. When I did manage to get out, when the Baathists forced my release, and I made it back to my home compound, I didn't leave that compound for three days. I barely left my room.
COOPER: I mean, can you talk your way out of -- can a Jill Carroll, who speaks Arabic...
WARE: No.
COOPER: Does it matter what she says?
WARE: No.
COOPER: Does it matter that she makes, you know, whenever you're kidnapped somewhere else, you're supposed to make yourself to a human in front of their eyes.
WARE: In some degree, it depends on who has you. In Jill's case, it's still unclear precisely who it is. Unfortunately, in most cases, no it doesn't matter. I mean, the sense that a journalist has the protection of being an objective observer, a portrayer of the truth and a carrier of messages holds no estate in Iraq whatsoever. They don't care what you've been doing. You are a commodity, either financially or politically to them. There's a ruthlessness that we're seeing particularly in regard to the journalists, that is unparalleled within this country.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Michael Ware from "TIME" magazine.
In free and open elections today, the Palestinians gave Hamas a landslide victory, the militant group that sends suicide bombers into Israel.
Tonight, a closer look at the radical group and why we must all take notice of what's happened. Here's CNN's Tom Foreman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (voice-over): Here is why the surprise victory of Hamas matters to America, even if many Americans don't know it.
It matters because through repeated pledges and suicide bombings, Hamas has shown that it is dead serious about annihilating Israel, a long-time U.S. ally in a region that supplies much of America's oil.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't see how you can be a partner in peace if you advocate the destruction of a country as part of your platform.
FOREMAN: It matters because this is a Middle Eastern flashpoint, and the latest country in the region where radical anti-American elements are on the rise. And it matters because the United States has pledged to support democracy everywhere. But now, a democratic vote has produced a government that some fear will be a tailor-made base for worldwide terrorists.
HORN: They're a terrorist organization, so it's clear that unless they change, they will more than harbor terrorists. They will give them safe haven.
FOREMAN (on camera): Do you think there is any kind of roadmap for peace left in the Middle East now?
HORN: No. Regrettably, I think that everybody's off the map.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Hamas was started in the 1960s, largely to do religious and charitable work for Palestinians. For years the group labored in the political shadow of the Yasser Arafat's better known Palestine Liberation Organization.
But Hamas grew more visible as it became more militant. In the 1990s, launching a long string of bombings, targeting Israeli's soldiers and citizens. The violence earned condemnation from some at home and many abroad, but also admirers. Middle East analysts say as Arafat's old PLO descended into disorder and scandal, Hamas appeared increasingly reliable and effective, even to Palestinians who want peace with Israel. TAMARA WITTES, SABAN CTR FOR MIDDLE EAST POLICY: It is also a social welfare organization that runs schools, health clinics, provides subsidies to widows and orphans throughout the West Bank and Gaza.
FOREMAN: And it's been very good at this.
WITTES: It has been extremely good at that and it's parlayed that into a lot of public support.
FOREMAN: So why does all this matter to Americans? Analysts say it's simple. Hamas is now in a position to effect more than ever before how much influence the United States has in the Middle East, which still provides much of the energy that makes America run.
Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: A lot more ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, Savannah is a beautiful city, known for its charm and southern hospitality. But lately the city's been making headlines about a brutal crime. A debutante was murdered; and as police search for suspects, racial tensions are beginning to boil. CNN's Candy Crowley reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This part of town is a time capsule, a series of squares tended by live Oaks laden with Spanish moss. Streets lined with million dollar homes of the old South. It is the sort of place where dances are still called cotillions, where girls can be debutantes.
19-year-old Jennifer Ross and her friends left a cotillion at 3:00 a.m., Christmas Eve, headed for a friend's house. They crossed through Orleans Square in the heart in the heart of historic Savannah. That's where the muggers were.
OTIS JOHNSON, MAYOR (D), SAVANNAH: It was reported that the perpetrators were black, and these were the sons and daughters of prominent citizens in our community. So that created a firestorm which we are now getting over.
CROWLEY: Jennifer died from a single gunshot wound a week after the assault. She was the daughter of a prominent Savannah doctor and his wife.
David Simons is a family friend.
SIMONS: For many of us, we never get to see the crime on a daily basis. And all of a sudden, there it was for us, unfortunately in the white population and the upper end population. Now we could put a face with crime. CROWLEY: At the family's request, Simon sent out an e-mail to galvanize the business community for an anti-crime effort. In the historic, mostly white, mostly affluent area of Savannah, people like Elizabeth Patterson heard the call.
ELIZABETH PATTERSON, DOWNTOWN BUSINESS ASSN. PRES.: Well, the business people that are friends of Jennifer's dad and her mother and Jennifer, herself, feel like they just have to do something so that her young life doesn't seem to have been wasted.
CROWLEY: In the mostly African-American, mostly poor neighborhoods and housing projects flanking the downtown area, the call to action hit a different nerve.
BENNIE MITCHELL, REVEREND, CONNORS TEMPLE BAPTIST CHURCH: Black life has always been cheap. So at this particular time, it's the same thing. It's young, white family, white girl and one who's a respected family that's in town. That's when everybody gets upset.
CROWLEY: Inside a city that trades on the charm of its Southern past, a racial fault line cracked open.
PORTER: I believe that communities that are very entrenched in the antebellum type of a spirit can sometimes take on an antebellum type of attitude.
CROWLEY: Savannah's population is 57 percent black, 39 percent white; and most of its crime is black on black.
SIMONS: We apologize. We were wrong. We were late getting to the table. We're here now. What can we do to help? That hasn't met the type of acceptance that we had expected it would.
CROWLEY: A family tragedy became a town's ugly, and Savannah became a town that couldn't talk to itself. On crime, Simons told a newspaper, "We don't really care if a couple of crack heads want to shoot each other." The mayor called it racist. Simons says it wasn't.
SIMONS: If you would want to get engaged in drug activity, whether you're black or white, we don't care. We just prefer you get off the street, whether you go by hearse or by police vehicle.
CROWLEY: And when black leaders called for vocational courses and job opportunities...
JOHNSON: So if you are poor, unemployed, a high school dropout and cannot find a job, then you may be tempted to look at the affluent in the middle of the city and say, well, you know, those folks have money, I don't have any, maybe I need to go and mug somebody.
CROWLEY: Some in the white community hear excuses. His honor says it's not.
JOHNSON: That's not an excuse and it will never be an acceptable excuse. CROWLEY: Savannah is looking for even keel, there are additional cops on the street and the push is on for more. The mayor's six month old anticrime study, including antipoverty plans is getting another look.
Jennifer Ross's murderers are still at large.
Candy Crowley, CNN, Savannah.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And we'll be following that story from Savannah.
Coming up, the showdown; a lot of people are talking about Oprah Winfrey takes on discredited Author James Frey. Does Frey end up in a million little pieces? We'll bring you the highlights and the lowlights next on 360.
ANNOUNCER: Initial print run for "A Millions Little Pieces": 50,000 copies. Copies sold to date: 3.5 million.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Oprah Winfrey's showdown with fact turned fiction Author James Frey. That is coming up tonight.
But first, here are some of the stories we're following at this moment.
In Washington, President Bush's first full-scale news conference of 2006 happened today. He again defended his program of domestic spying without a warrant. Giving no ground to critics, Mr. Bush indicated he might resist congressional efforts to change his spy program. The president said, quote, "The program's legal. It's designed to protect civil liberties and it's necessary."
Along the U.S.-Mexican border, authorities have found what they call the largest and most sophisticated tunnel. It covers about a half mile between Tijuana and California. Authorities uncovered two tons of marijuana, most of it on the Mexican side. The passageway had lighting, electricity, ventilation and a pump to remove water.
New hope in the battle against bird flu; U.S. researchers say a new vaccine for use in chickens took only a month to make and was 100 percent effective. The next step is testing the vaccine in humans. The shorter production time saved months off traditional methods and could enable a lightening response if the virus mutates and is spread by person-to-person contact.
In her story career, Oprah Winfrey has scored numerous firsts. Today she endured one. She took on Author James Frey, who only months ago she had judged worthy of her celebrated book club. In recent weeks, parts of his book, "A Million Little Pieces," have been exposed as lies. Well today, Oprah gave him a chance to respond. Here are the highlights.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: I made a mistake and I left the impression that the truth does not matter.
COOPER (voice-over): James Frey's second visit to Oprah started out tough.
WINFREY: It is difficult for me to talk to you because I really feel duped. I feel duped.
COOPER: For the author, things went downhill from there.
WINFREY: I was really behind this book because so many people seemed to have gotten so much out of it, and I believed in the fact that so many people were. But now, I feel that you conned us all. Do you?
JAMES FREY, AUTHOR: I don't feel like I conned you guys.
WINFREY: You don't?
COOPER: At times, Oprah Winfrey poked.
WINFREY: First of all, I wanted to start with the smoking gun report, titled: The Man who Conned Oprah, and I want to know, were they right?
FREY: I think most of what they wrote was pretty accurate. Absolutely. I think they did a good job detailing some of the discrepancies between some of the actual facts of the events and...
WINFREY: What they said was that you lied about the length of time that you spent in jail. How long were you in jail?
FREY: I was in jail for -- they were right about that. I was in for a few hours, not the time...
WINFREY: Not 87 days.
FREY: Correct.
COOPER: Oprah also prodded.
WINFREY: So, on page 420 of the book, you say you're saying good bye to Lilly. First of all, was there a Lilly?
FREY: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean that -- that's been a question for a long time before...
WINFREY: Well, the thing that doesn't make any sense to me is if you were in jail for 87 days and you say on page 420 of the book, you and Lilly are saying good bye and you say, I have to go to jail in Ohio and it's only going to be for a few months and I'm going to write you every day, and -- I have to tell you, James, that when I was reading that book and I get to the last page and Lilly has hung herself and you arrived, you know, the day that she was hung, and I couldn't even believe it. I'm like gasping. I'm calling people, like oh my God, this happened.
COOPER: She picked apart just about every questionable passage in Frey's fictionalized memoirs.
WINFREY: Was your description of how she died true?
FREY: She committed suicide, yes.
WINFREY: She hung herself?
FREY: I mean, that -- that was one of the details I altered about her. I mean...
WINFREY: Okay. And why?
FREY: Because all the way through the book, I altered details about every single one of the characters to render them unidentifiable.
WINFREY: So how did she die?
FREY: She cut her wrists.
COOPER: From the suicide to the discrepancies in his dental visits.
WINFREY: Okay. So what was true about the dentist and what wasn't?
FREY: I...
WINFREY: You did go to the dentist?
FREY: Absolutely.
WINFREY: You went to the dentist. Okay. What's true about the dentist?
FREY: I mean, I went to the dentist, I had my front four teeth repaired. As I remember it.
WINFREY: With Novocain?
FREY: I honestly have no idea.
WINFREY: Well then, why did you say you didn't have Novocain, because you know, the last time I went to the dentist, my dentist said that could not have happened. And I said, oh no, oh no, it happened. He told me it happened. So why -- was that to make yourself look like a big -- because, you know what? It worked.
COOPER: And when she was done with the author, Oprah turned her attention on his publisher.
NAN TALESE, PUBLISHER: Oprah, I mean, I think this whole experience is very sad. It's very sad for you. It's very sad for us. WINFREY: It's not sad for me. It's embarrassing and disappointing for me.
(APPLAUSE)
WINFREY: That was embarrassing and disappointing for me.
TALESE: But I don't -- I do not know how you get inside another person's mind.
COOPER: In the end, it was devastating television. And Oprah made her point, that James Frey didn't just embellish, that he flat out lied.
WINFREY: Why do you have to lie about that?
FREY: I have, you know, essentially admitted to...
WINFREY: Lying.
FREY: ... what I have been...
WINFREY: To lying.
FREY: ... to lying.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Essentially. For many, it's also hard to say another five-letter word, sorry. Sure does take on a lot of (unintelligible). Coming up, the art of apologies galore.
Plus, would you believe some teens are restraining themselves? A report on the latest thing among young people, abstinence, when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: So if you happen to see a pair of teenagers, each of them wearing a simple silver ring, don't get a wrong idea. They're not married, except to an idea. CNN's Deborah Feyerick reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When you first meet him, Adam Skinner seems like a typical 17-year-old guy. He loves guitar, his supped-up truck, staying buff...
MARISSA, GIRLFRIEND OF SKINNER: How'd you know it?
ADAM SKINNER, MADE CHASTITY PLEDGE: Because I'm a genius.
FEYERICK: And, of course, hanging out with his girlfriend, Marissa.
SKINNER: I got that one wrong on the test too. MARISSA: Are you serious?
FEYERICK: They talk about sex, specifically how they plan to remain virgins until marriage, for God's sake.
How important is God in your life?
SKINNER: He's number one.
FEYERICK: It is that relationship with God.
MARISSA: No, it's too cold to get (unintelligible).
SKINNER: But what if there's a strong case?
FEYERICK: It keeps his relationship with Marissa G-rated.
(On camera): How important is that to you, as a 17-year-old guy with hormones going crazy, to be sexually pure?
SKINNER: It's very important because, you know, like, you know, being impure creates a strain on mine and God's relationship too, not just you know, the person that I'm with.
FEYERICK: Adam freely quotes scripture and hopes to become a youth pastor. He has been attending the Grace Family Church in Tampa, Florida, for about a year. And every Sunday night, along with some 300 other high school kids, he goes to youth group to get some religion, teen style.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe you're here because the girl or boy that you like is here and you are hoping that they will, oh baby, just glance your way, and maybe all the butterflies will come, you'll be like ooh, hoo, hoo. Do you understand? Because of desire, you have made the choice to be here.
FEYERICK: Front row center is Kelly Brown. For her, the word of the Lord is to keep desire in check. She's determined to remain a virgin until her wedding night. And she's not afraid to let everyone know.
KELLY BROWN, MADE CHASTITY PLEDGE: I don't mind stepping out and being like, I'm not going to have sex. I don't mind being laughed at or being made fun of.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For those of you who signed the purity pledge...
FEYERICK: But here, no one's laughing at her. They're applauding.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kelly Brown.
(APPLAUSE)
FEYERICK: That's because like tens of thousands of other teens across the country, Kelly and Adam...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adam Skinner.
(APPLAUSE)
FEYERICK: ... are slipping a silver band on their ring finger and pledging to save themselves until marriage. In fact, the so called chastity rings have become so popular, they're sold all over the Internet and at major stores.
(On camera): You all have these rings. Do you feel that they have the same seriousness as an actual wedding ring?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Definitely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Definitely.
FEYERICK: So, having that on your finger, you feel committed to the decision you've made. Is that a fair statement?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
FEYERICK: Brandon? So you're on the football team. You got to have guys around you all the time talking about it like it's nothing. How do you deal with that?
BRANDON, MADE CHASTITY PLEDGE: Everybody tries to tempt you and bring you down, but as long as you're strong in your beliefs and you're strong in, you know, what you know, they can't bring you down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God, you've shown us the way. Now show them the way.
FEYERICK: James Dodzweit is the youth pastor at Grace Family Church. He's shepherding nearly 1,000 kids who are trying to keep their virginity.
JAMES DODZWEIT, MADE CHASTITY PLEDGE: There's pressure to have sex. There's pressure to be in a very intimate relationship.
FEYERICK: So, I'm a young girl, I come to you and I say, you know, I really love him and I really want that physical intimacy. What do you tell me?
DODZWEIT: I'd tell you that your emotions really cannot be trusted.
FEYERICK: So when young love comes up against faith, which one wins? Not faith, says Columbia University's Peter Bearman. He conducted the largest study on teen sexuality, interviewing 20,000 young people. There was some encouraging news.
PETER BEARMAN, SOCIOLOGY PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: On average, you know, kids who take these virginity pledges will have sex, say a year and a half later than the kids who don't take these pledges.
FEYERICK: The problem? When teens did decide to have sex, they were less prepared, putting themselves at greater risk.
BEARMAN: All the benefit that they get from delay is simply wiped out in a second by not using a condom, in terms of pregnancy risk and in terms of STD risk. It's hard to imagine having a pledge card in your wallet at the same time as a condom.
DODZWEIT: We would rather set the bar high toward abstinence, rather than give them tips on how to put your condom on right.
FEYERICK: Is it possible to solve a teenager's hormones simply by saying, put this ring on?
DODZWEIT: No. Absolutely not. That, my goodness, I would be, you know, God, himself, if I could do that.
FEYERICK: In fact, Bearman found 88 percent of those who had taken the pledge lost their virginity by the time they said, I do; but this doesn't deter Pastor James.
DODZWEIT: If we have our way, we're going to blow that statistic out of the water. And that's not wishful thinking. When it comes to anything that you hope for your kids, you don't tell them to aim low. We do strive for excellence.
FEYERICK: Adam Skinner knows just how hard it can be to fight hormones. He faced it with his last girlfriend.
SKINNER: We didn't always make the right choices, but you know, God can see past that and forgive our sins, but I mean, we didn't go all they way, but you get caught up in the moment and sometimes you just, you lose your self-control.
FEYERICK (on camera): Was there guilt?
SKINNER: Yes.
FEYERICK: A little bit of shame?
SKINNER: Sure.
FEYERICK: A little bit of embarrassment?
SKINNER: No.
FEYERICK (voice-over): He says the choices he hopes to make with his new girlfriend, Marissa, who has also taken the virginity pledge, will be different.
(On camera): But it's fair to say that you don't plan to be alone with Marissa at any point?
SKINNER: It -- not in that kind of situation, you know, if we're, you know, when you go to the movies or something together, but we don't ever want to put ourselves in a place where we could be tempted.
FEYERICK (voice-over): Deborah Feyerick, CNN, Tampa, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, Erica Hill, from "HEADLINE NEWS," joins us with some of the business stories we're following tonight. Hi Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Anderson.
Ford Motor Company will restructure on its own, and it's not interested in a government bailout to help reverse its financial slide. In a statement released today, the company said, quote, "Some have speculated that bankruptcy and a federal bailout of the industry are inevitable. At Ford, that couldn't be further from our minds."
A report released today by two liberal think-tanks finds the gap between rich and poor is now growing in America, as the federal minimum wage has remained flat, union membership has declined and industries have faced global competition. The report found the incomes of the poorest 20 percent of families nationally grew by an average of 19 percent over the past 20 years. Now at the same time, the incomes of the richest fifth of families grew by nearly 60 percent.
Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan plans to open his own Washington, D.C., based consulting firm after he leaves office next week. That's assuming that Ben Bernanke, who President Bush has nominated to replace Greenspan is confirmed by then.
Now, the new Greenspan firm reportedly doesn't have any clients yet and it's still not clear exactly what sort of consulting Mr. Greenspan will be doing.
And beginning this fall, the maker Timberland, will package its shoes in boxes made from environmentally friendly materials. Timberland says it will use 100 percent recycled waste fiber for the boxes and soy-based inks, Anderson, for the prints.
COOPER: There you go. All right, Erica, thanks.
Here's a little riddle for you. What simple two-syllable word is so hard to say aloud, that people frequently all but gag in the attempt?
Sorry state of the art of the apology when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: So there's a dish that cannot be made tasty, no matter how you slice it. We're talking about humble pie, which people will go to amazing length to avoid eating. Still, it can sometimes happen that you find a big serving of it right there in front of you and a lot of people watching and there's nothing to do, but to dig right in. So was today on television, and so memorably it has often been before. CNN's Jeanne Moos takes a look. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): But sorry really is the hardest word. Oprah sure made it look easy.
WINFREY: I regret that phone call.
MOOS: A call she made to "LARRY KING,"...
WINFREY: ... still resonates with me and I...
MOOS: ... defending Author James Frey.
WINFREY: I made a mistake and I left the impression that the truth does not matter. And I am deeply sorry about that.
MOOS: Now that's an apology and not some sorry excuse for one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I am sorry.
MOOS: Sorry, for biting off a piece of your ear.
(SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm extremely sorry for...
MOOS: For throwing a phone at a hotel worker.
(SINGING)
MOOS: Brenda Lee's, "I'm Sorry," is one of over 300 songs with sorry in it. There are those iffy sorries that begin with if. For instance, when Arnold Schwarzenegger was accused of groping and insulting women...
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, GOVERNOR, CALIFORNIA: If I've done anything wrong, that where I thought that I am playful and been just, you know, have fun. I feel bad about that.
MOOS: Apologies for sexual misbehavior often feature a supportive wife.
KOBE BRYANT, LOS ANGELES LAKERS: Furious at myself, disgusted at myself. I'm so sorry.
MOOS: When sex is involved, say between a movie star and an alleged prostitute, the highly anticipated apology is something to promote.
ANNOUNCER: And Jay asks Hugh Grant the one question everybody's been wondering. What the hell were you thinking?
HUGH GRANT, ACTOR: I need to suffer for this. You know, I've done an abominable thing. I did a bad thing and there you have it.
MOOS: But when it was President Clinton's turn, his original lie was more passionate than his eventual admission.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I did not have sexual relations with that woman.
Indeed I did have a relationship with Ms. Lewinsky that was not appropriate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wanted more groveling.
MOOS: And eventually there was.
CLINTON: I don't think there is a fancy way to say that I have sinned.
MOOS: Oh, there's a fancy way, with tears.
JIMMY SWAGGART, TELEVANGELIST: I have sinned against you, my Lord.
MOOS: And then there were those who voted against George Bush and apologized to the world after his election on the, sorry everybody Web site.
One of the most abject apologies came from the South Korean Scientist, recently exposed for faking cloning research.
DR. HWANG WOO-SUK, STEM CELL RESEARCHER (through translator): I feel so miserable that it's difficult even to say sorry.
MOOS (on camera): But the most impersonal sorry, the lamest sorry, the sorriest sorry of all, is the one we hear on hold.
RECORDING: Sorry we're having so much trouble.
RECORDING: I'm sorry, but I'm not exactly sure what you want.
MOOS: All we want is to hear what Oprah said to her critics.
WINFREY: You are absolutely right.
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, 360 continues in a moment. I'm sorry. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: "LARRY KING" is next, with more on Oprah's day, interviewing James Frey and revealing the lies in his book, "A Million Little Pieces."
Thanks for joining us. See you tomorrow.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
