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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Congress Porn Hearings; Catching Online Predators; Intelligence Leak; Immigration Battle; Retired General Wants Rumsfeld to Resign; Missing for a Decade; Self-Mutilation; A New View

Aired April 06, 2006 - 23:00   ET


ANNOUNCER: Catching the predators.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right partner, you're under arrest for attempt molestation.


ANNOUNCER: As Congress takes up the problem of preying on kids in cyberspace, we'll show you how cops are putting the sting on suspects.

Executive order. For the first time, the president is implicated as the source of a White House leak. But is it true? We're covering all the angles.

And courtroom confrontation between the woman who says she was held a virtual prisoner for a decade...


TANYA KACH, MISSING FOR 10 YEARS: There were time he threatened to kill me.


ANNOUNCER: ... and the plan accused of brainwashing her.

Across the country and around the world, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360. Live from the CNN studios in New York, sitting in tonight, Heidi Collins and John Roberts.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CO-ANCHOR: All that ahead this hour, but we begin on Capitol Hill, where hearings on sexual predators and the Internet continued today in Congress. Hearings that began Tuesday with powerful testimony from Justin Berry, who described in excruciating detail how he was lured into the world of Internet porn when he was just 13. He told his story, he said, so that other children could be spared. At today's hearing the stories were just as disturbing. But equally disturbing to lawmakers was the fact that some witnesses didn't show up.

Here's Kathleen Koch.


KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They are the investigators, the cops behind the scenes, tracking those who prey on children. Congress learned today how close a brush they sometimes have with suspects.

Wyoming Special Agent Flint Waters described posing online as a 13-year-old girl when he was contacted by a man who wanted to meet for sexual acts at a nearby mall.

FLINT WATERS, WYOMING DIVISION OF CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION: I received this picture of him. Look at his eyes. We'll go back. It's the same man. A week after Christmas, we walked the mall and watched this individual for 2 1/2 hours, waiting for him so that we could arrest him in a safe manner. And eventually we placed him into custody.

This is one of two times where my undercover operations have revealed an offender who had exposed contact to my own children.

KOCH: It turns out Waters recognized the man from his own children's Christmas photo.

Inspector Raymond Smith read a letter a victim sent, thanking him for his task force's success in catching predators.

RAYMOND SMITH, INSPECTOR: When I was a little girl and when I was being photographed and raped, I used to try to send messages with my eyes down the lens and hope that one day a good person might see and come to help us. It took years for me to realize no one was looking at my face. You saw our face and we want you to know that we know how hard this must have been.

KOCH: Lawmakers had also hoped to hear why just one person had been arrested in the case of Justin Berry. In riveting testimony Tuesday, the 19-year-old told how 1500 men allegedly gave him gifts and money for sexual performances on the Internet. He turned their names over to Justice Department investigators.

REP. JOE BARTON (R), TEXAS: But I'm fed up with this.

KOCH: Lawmakers were livid when a lower level staffer was sent instead of the FBI and Justice Department experts they requested.

BARTON: But we are questioning the judgment of the Justice Department of the United States of America who seems to think they can thumb its nose at the Congress of the United States. And that will not happen. You go -- I'm going to tell the attorney general straight, but you go back and tell him for me.

KOCH (on camera): For years, Attorney Patrick Trueman headed the Justice Department division Justin had turned to for help.

PATRICK TRUEMAN, FORMER DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DIRECTOR, CHILD EXPLOITATION AND OBSCENITY: It's very shocking. They've done some good cases, but this is a big case they dropped the ball on. I don't think the attorney general will put up with this.

KOCH: But many child pornography violations are never punished. While an estimated 96 percent of those arrested are convicted, fewer than one in three serves more than a year in jail.

(Voice-over): Lawmakers and law enforcers worry that if no action is taken on this high profile case, other young victims will be more reluctant than ever to come forward.

Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.


COLLINS: On the same day that Justin Berry shocked lawmakers with his testimony, a Press Secretary for the Department of Homeland Security Brian Doyle was arrested in an online child sex tape. He's being held now in a Maryland jail without bond, and faces 23 felony charges.

Similar stings are carried out by police departments across the country. The premise is simple -- to catch adults who target children for sex on the Internet. You go online and pretend to be a kid.

Here's CNN's Daniel Sieberg.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our suspect has just arrived in a green shirt. So it is looking good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he's getting out. We'll get a good look at him right now.

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A police stakeout in Laguna Beach, California. Officers prepare to take down their suspect. They say 24-year-old Fernando Garin, Jr., is attempting to lure a 13-year-old girl to this playground for sex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he starts walking through the park or something, we will take him down.

SERGEANT DARIN LENYI, LAGUNA BEACH POLICE DEPARTMENT: "I just wanna kiss you right now and lick you, snible you up and down from head to toe."

SIEBERG: Sergeant Darin Lenyi reads one example of the language allegedly used by his suspect on the messenger program Yahoo Chat. Much of it is too explicit for this program.

He shows us what is believed to be Garin's page on the popular social networking site Myspace. And he shows us several naked photos he claims Garin e-mailed to his chat buddy.

So, how does Sergeant Lenyi know about all this? Well, it is an Internet sting operation. And the Laguna Beach P.D. has planned a number of them in the past several months. This surveillance video is from another operation that netted 13 arrests in one night. One suspect arrives with a single red rose for his underage date. Officers are waiting inside to arrest each one -- a pharmaceutical technician, a Starbucks manager, an engineer, even a lieutenant with the California Highway Patrol. All are formally charged with attempt to child molest and are in the process of being arraigned.

The citizens group creates phony profiles of underage kids to see if anyone will take the bait, complete with cultural references and Internet lingo. Working with all levels of law enforcement, they claim to have busted several dozen pedophiles since 2004.

"FRAG," PERVERTED-JUSTICE.COM: We have caught doctors, lawyers, cops, firefighters, teachers, social workers, you know, really all walks of life.

One of the predators actually had to find a baby-sitter for his 13-year-old daughter, so he could come over and molest someone else's 13-year-old daughter.

SIEBERG: Myspace says that while it can't prevent all fraud, the company has deleted more than 200,000 underage profiles to date. And one warning on the safety tips page reads, if you're under 14, go away.

"Frag" and "Del," not their real names, of course, say they never initiate the conversations, but, rather, wait to be contacted. Then they and their volunteers engage in chat sessions and, whenever it is requested, allow the person to call them on the phone. Adult members of Perverted-Justice who sound underage pick up the line.

Here is a sample conversation. And it is disturbing.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How old are you?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You sound pretty cute.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, what are you up to?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're -- you're, like, horny, aren't you?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. You're so cute.


SIEBERG: And when these phone or cyber-exchanges move into the real world, the authorities can act.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And let us know where he's going.

SIEBERG (on camera): The folks at Perverted-Justice have worked for about a week with the Laguna Beach Police Department to set up this stakeout operation here at a park, where the 13-year-old girl says she's going to show up, after playing hooky from school today.

(voice-over): But rather than a teenage girl waiting on this playground...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around. Drop the beanie. All right, partner, you're under arrest for attempt molestation of a minor.

SIEBERG: Police search Garin's car and find condoms and a digital camera, which, based on his alleged chat, Garin was going to use to take dirty pictures.

He has since has been charged with attempt to child molest and sending lewd pictures to a minor by the Orange County district attorney. He's being held on $100,000 bail and faces up to four years in prison. The public defender's office declined comment.

LENYI: Obviously, if this was a real 13-year-old chatting with this individual, it -- it is robbing some innocence from that child. So, it is rewarding that we made this happen and no harm did come to a -- a 13-year-old little girl.

SIEBERG: A deterrent for anyone who attempts to contact a teenager online. That curious and chatty child may actually be wearing a badge.

Daniel Sieberg, CNN, Laguna Beach, California.


COLLINS: And one last note, Fernando Garin Jr.'s arraignment is now scheduled for April 11th. Since our story was produced, he has been released from jail on bond.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Now that story is a good reason to watch what your kids are doing online.

A big story out of Washington tonight. A stunning accusation from a former White House insider. Today in court papers, the vice president's one-time chief of staff, the man indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice, said the authority to leak classified intelligence about Iraq came from none other than President Bush himself.

CNN White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has more. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, (voice-over): There was no evidence that President Bush or Vice President Cheney broke the law. Court documents released today do show that the White House's campaign to rebut criticism of the Iraq war was being driven from the highest level, the president himself.

STU ROTHENBERG, POLITICAL ANALYST: At the time, this whole issue was really blowing up in the president's face.

MALVEAUX: In the summer of 2003, several months after the U.S. invaded Iraq, no weapons of mass destruction had been found. The administration was facing intense criticism that it had twisted the Iraq intelligence to justify the war. Most notably from former Ambassador Joe Wilson who discredited Mr. Bush's statement that Iraq was trying to obtain materials from Africa to produce nuclear weapons.

ROTHENBERG: The president was on the defensive every day. And obviously, the White House believes that it had information that really challenged Ambassador Wilson's take on the entire issue.

MALVEAUX: According to senior administration officials and reported by CNN at the time, the Bush administration launched an all- out campaign to defend its rationale for war and discredit its critics.

Part of that campaign included declassifying a small portion of the super secret National Intelligence Estimate, or NIE, which said in part Iraq, "will probably have a nuclear weapon during this decade," and then leaking that information to reporters. First, on July 8th to the "New York Times." Cheney's Aide "Scooter" Libby, quietly disclosing it over a breakfast meeting to its Reporter Judy Miller. And then ten days later, publicly releasing the declassified NIE to all reporters at a White House briefing.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales says the process of declassifying documents is at the president's discretion.

ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think the president could decide what would be the appropriate method of declassifying information.

MALVEAUX: While the president's decision to declassify and release the report was completely legal, this revelation could present Mr. Bush with big political problems.

ROTHENBERG: Well, the president has had a growing credibility problem for at least six months now. There has been clearly deterioration in his poll numbers in terms of honesty and trustworthiness.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If there's a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is.

MALVEAUX: Democrats are already seizing on the controversy. SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: The information raises serious and troubling legal questions and issues.

LANNY DAVIS, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: The president has a problem of a double standard.

MALVEAUX (on camera): While the document indicates that the president and vice president did not break the law, now the White House is faced with yet another red hot controversy that will require a comprehensive public relations strategy. The question is whether it will be any different.

Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, the White House.


ROBERTS: Now politically speaking, we don't know how damaging this allegation is for President Bush. But what about the legal implications? So I took that up earlier with CNN's Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin.


ROBERTS: So, Jeffrey, what is "Scooter" Libby up to?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: What "Scooter" Libby is up to, is trying to get out of going to prison. I mean he is -- it's all about him, understandably, at this point.

And part of what he's saying in this brief that was released today is that, look, I was acting at the instigation of my superiors. And specifically, in leaking the National Intelligence Estimate, not the name of Valerie Plame, but leaking this National Intelligence Estimate, I was authorized to do this, not only by the vice president, but by the president of the United States.

ROBERTS: So is he trying...

TOOBIN: Something we didn't know before.

ROBERTS: Is he trying to pull Vice President Cheney and President Bush into this?

TOOBIN: Well, he seems to be. Now, remember he's charged with lying in front of the grand jury. He's not charged with improperly disclosing classified information. So it's not entirely clear what their authorization would mean in the criminal case. But in a larger sense, he's clearly saying, look, I'm not some rogue actor here. I was very much acting at the incitation of my superiors. And the implication is I'm going to try to prove that at the trial, perhaps with them as witnesses.

ROBERTS: But how does that help him because he's charged with perjury and obstruction of justice for lying to investigators and the grand jury about a couple of specific things, saying that he heard about Valerie Plame's identity from a reporter. Whereas, he would seem to suggest by saying it was coming from the top down, that he heard about it from Cheney or Bush?

TOOBIN: Well, the implication -- and again, it's not spelled out here, but the way I interpret it, is he's saying, look, all I was doing with these reporters was what my bosses told me to do. So why would I lie about it? I didn't have any reason to lie.

His defense ultimately in this case is, I forgot. It's a memory issue, apparently. And He's saying I had no reason to lie because what I was doing was authorized, appropriate. And I think that's what's behind the disclosure that came out today.

ROBERTS: Now, what about President Bush? Is he within his power to declassify classified information in this case for political purposes?

TOOBIN: I think the answer there is clearly yes. There's an executive order that says a president can declassify anything he wants any time and that seems to apply here.

It's a political problem for the president. It's not a legal problem. The political problem is that he has been saying, look, leaks are outrageous. I don't want anyone leaking. And here he is apparently authorizing a leak. But that's not illegal, it's just...

ROBERTS: Right, it's just giving the Democrats another arrow in their quiver...

TOOBIN: Correct.

ROBERTS: ... in this mid-term election.

Something else popped up today I want to get your opinion on. Alberto Gonzales, in testimony to the Hill today, suggested that President Bush was within his purview to authorize surveillance of domestic-only phone calls.

TOOBIN: Totally astonishing exchange with Congressman Adam Schiff. Not entirely clear what's going on here.

ROBERTS: Is that a suggestion that maybe it is going on?

TOOBIN: Well, yes, it certainly was that suggestion. And one of the defenses that the administration made of the very controversial NSA program that came out in December was, well, this only relates to international calls.

The suggestion here was there was some warrantless -- there is some warrantless wiretapping going on of calls entirely within the United States. And that just is not authorized under American law.

ROBERTS: And that would be a huge legal and political problem.

TOOBIN: That would be a big deal. And we shall see.

ROBERTS: Jeffrey Toobin, thanks very much.

TOOBIN: All right, John.


ROBERTS: So how does this White House investigation compare to others? Here's the raw data. The CIA leak investigation has lasted more than two years. It began 827 days ago. The Watergate investigation in the early 1970s lasted 288 days. While the independent council's Whitewater case during the Clinton administration covered 2,442 days -- more than six years.

COLLINS: All right, thanks for that math.

ROBERTS: And nothing came of it.


And in Washington, could they still be fighting over immigration reform six years from now? Coming up, some key new developments in the battle, but no end to the war.

ROBERTS: Later on, she says she was held captive in a man's home for 10 years. Hear what she told the judge today.

COLLINS: Also tonight, this...


DANIELLE HURST, CUTS HERSELF: I now had this thing that made me feel better and it wasn't drugs. And I was ecstatic. You know, it was like this is perfect.


COLLINS: This thing is called cutting. And you'll meet some of the teenagers fighting to overcome it.

You're watching 360.


COLLINS: The battle in Washington over immigration reform hasn't been settled. Nor does anyone expect it to be for a very long time. The sides -- and there are many sides -- are simply too far apart, perhaps too close to midterm elections.

But tonight there is movement to report. And CNN's Dana Bash is joining us now with the very latest.

Dana, are we talking about progress here?

DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's a big question mark tonight. Actually, the fate of the immigration bill tonight, Heidi, is a big question mark. And that is because although they did have a broad bipartisan agreement on the substance and still do, it was pretty hard to find. The question is whether or not they can actually have a vote on that. That is because there's a procedural tug of war. Some Republicans want to have votes on amendments. Some Democrats say absolutely not. And now they're stuck and it is very different from the way it looked 12 hours ago.


BASH (voice-over): Senate leaders from both parties rushed to the cameras to celebrate.

SEN. BILL FRIST (R), MAJORITY LEADER: We've had a huge breakthrough.

BASH: After a flurry of intense behind the scenes talks, a compromise that would allow millions of illegal immigrants to eventually become U.S. citizens. Democrats were cautious, but they were standing with Republicans, and that said it all.

SEN. HARRY REID (D), MINORITY LEADER: We can't declare victory, but we've moved a long ways down the road.

BASH: On the most contentious issue, how to handle the estimated 11 million to 12 million illegal immigrants, the legislation envisions three categories. Those in the United States more than five years could stay and get on a path to citizenship.

Those illegally in the U.S. between two to five years, would have to briefly leave the country through designated sites to get temporary work visas. They would then be eligible for Green Cards, and eventually citizenship.

Illegal immigrants in United States less than two years could not stay legally.

Republicans are so divided on the issue, language matters as much as the details. Note Senator Lindsey Graham's effort to sell the compromise to fellow Republicans who won't support anything that rings of amnesty.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I think we've reached a plea bargain with 11 million illegal aliens.

BASH: Still some Republicans quickly rejected the plan.

SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R), ALABAMA: I'm not impressed. That's not -- I'm not going to now line up and say, oh, great, we've got a compromise and this is going to be the law.


BASH (on camera): Now, Senators like Jeff Sessions simply don't like this compromise and he is one who wants to try to change it. And Democrats simply won't let them. And that is why they are stuck at this time. They have a procedural spat. And that really could derail what many hoped would be the compromise that they were looking for for some time.

Already, Heidi, no surprise here, each side is blaming the other for playing election year politics.

COLLINS: Never heard that before.

Dana Bash, thank you. Live from the Capitol on a late night tonight.

Thanks Dana.

BASH: Thank you.

ROBERTS: He's a retired U.S. major general who helped train the Iraqi army. So why does he want Donald Rumsfeld to resign?


MAJOR GENERAL PAUL EATON (RET), U.S. ARMY: We have got to get out from under an irrationally arrogant civilian leadership and allow the considered advice of very wise and very competent uniformed military.


ROBERTS: A CNN exclusive. Paul Eaton's first television appearance since a highly critical "New York Times" op-ed.

COLLINS: Plus, the woman missing for a decade. She was in court today and she faced her alleged captor. We'll tell you what was said when 360 continues.


ROBERTS: In Iraq today, more unrelenting violence. In Najaf, insurgents set off a car bomb, killing at least 10 people. Also the corpses of six unidentified men were discovered late Wednesday in western Baghdad.

Images like those have helped split public opinion over the war in Iraq. And criticism of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has been getting louder.

But when Paul Eaton recently called for Rumsfeld to resign in a "New York Times" editorial, it got special notice. That's because Eaton is a retired major general who for two years was in charge of training the Iraqi military.

In his 32-year career, the West Point graduate served in Vietnam and held command of the Army's infantry school at Fort Benning, Georgia.

In an exclusive interview, we spoke earlier. It's General Eaton's first television appearance since his critical article was published.


ROBERTS: General Eaton, thanks for being with us. We appreciate your time, sir.

Let me go back to your editorial that you wrote in the "New York Times" in recent weeks. You said about Donald Rumsfeld, quote, "In sum, he has shown himself incompetent strategically, operationally and tactically." What led you to come to that conclusion?

MAJOR GENERAL PAUL EATON (RET), U.S. ARMY: The problem that pushed me over the brink on this thing was the release of the Quadrennial Defense Review, where I saw almost no increase in ground forces and a very modest increase in the special forces for this country. That coupled with all the problems that we had worked our way through during the prosecution of the war, leading up to the war, the execution of phase three and then the lack of urgency during phase four, the reconstruction phase, it just set the stage that I had to write something, try to get it out in print and the "New York Times" chose to print it.

ROBERTS: You further said under Rumsfeld's tenure, quote, "I have seen a climate of groupthink become dominant and a growing reluctance by experienced military men and civilians to challenge the notions of the senior leadership." Forgive me if I'm wrong here, General, but aren't you supposed to follow orders?

EATON: I believe this administration, I believe this particular secretary came in with the notion that they were not going to pursue a strong General Powell type chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. That in fact, they were going to suborn the qualified uniformed military advice.

ROBERTS: Here's what President Bush has to say about his secretary of Defense, though. Let's take a listen.

BUSH: No, I don't believe he should resign. I think he's done a fine job of not only conducting two battles, Afghanistan and Iraq, but also transforming our military.

ROBERTS: Senior staffer to Donald Rumsfeld said of you, General Eaton, that you are simply bitter because the training of the Iraqi military didn't go well. Is that true?

EATON: No, I'm not biter. The best assignment I have ever had in my life was working with the people of Iraq.

ROBERTS: Congressman Jack Murtha says he hears privately from military leaders who are afraid to say this publicly that the war in Iraq from the get-go was the wrong thing. Is he correct in saying that?

EATON: What this president did was put an end to the hostilities that Saddam started back in 1990. So I see it as a logical progression. I don't fault the decision to wrap up hostilities that Saddam started in 1990.

What I've got a problem with is a number of the decisions that this secretary of defense made. And I think that we need to change him out so that we don't repeat it in the future. ROBERTS: General, you're going out on a bit of a limb here, a little bit of a risk with this position against Secretary Rumsfeld. You've still got a couple of children in the military. Why did you think it was so important to step out in public and say the things you did?

EATON: My sons understand clearly how I feel. And the rank and file and the number of e-mails and telephone calls that I have gotten from all ranks, sergeant through general, have been absolutely supportive in the article that I wrote for the "New York Times."


ROBERTS: That was retired Major General Paul Eaton joining us tonight.

COLLINS: When she disappeared she was just 14 years old. Ten years later she surfaced. Today, confronting the man who allegedly held her prisoner. That story coming up.

ROBERTS: Also tonight, "Hiding in Plain Sight," to ease the pain, Americans are cutting themselves. And the problem may be more common than you think.

All that ahead on 360.


COLLINS: The woman who says she was held captive for a decade spoke about her ordeal today to a judge. Others were listening as well, including the man who allegedly robbed her of 10 years of her life.


COLLINS (voice-over): Tanya Kach entered a Pittsburgh courthouse today to confront the man she accused of keeping her a virtual prisoner in his home.

Thomas Hose came face-to-face with Kach for the first time since his arrest two weeks ago.

In court, she repeated what she had told reporters when she first came forward, that Hose, a school security guard, helped her run away from home when she was 14 and he was 37. He helped her create a new identity and brainwashed her into thinking she had nowhere to go.

TANYA KACH, MISSING FOR 10 YEARS: I didn't think anybody cared. And it seemed like he was -- he told me he cared. And I believed him. And I didn't think I was loved.

COLLINS: Police say Kach stayed in his home for 10 years, not locked in, but afraid to leave.

KACH: There were times when I would threaten to leave, and there were times he threatened to kill me. COLLINS: She says much of the time she lived in a single room with a bucket for a toilet.

KACH: I lived up in that room. I didn't see the light of day. I didn't go out, I didn't see people.

COLLINS: Until last June when she began venturing outside. In March she summed up the courage to tell her story to a friend who then called police.

Hose pled not guilty to sex crimes with a minor and to new charges including aggravated indecent assault and child endangerment. His attorney says Hose never forced Kach into anything.

JAMES ECKER, HOSE'S ATTORNEY: I think the evidence itself showed that she could have walked away any time, any moment at all.

COLLINS: Police say Hose's accomplice was Beautician Judith Sokol, who allegedly dyed Kach's hair so she wouldn't be recognized, and allowed the two to have sex at her home. Sokol also been charged with sex crimes involving a minor, but her lawyer says she was unaware of any intimate contact between Hose and Kach.


COLLINS (on camera): Lawrence Fisher is the attorney for Tanya Kach. James Ecker represents Thomas Hose and David Conti is a reporter for the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review." All three talked with me earlier.


COLLINS: David, I'm going to begin with you. I know that you were in court today while Tanya Kach testified. How did she seem on the stand?

DAVID CONTI, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW REPORTER: She was great on the stand. She shook off some early nervousness I believe. When she first started, she raised her hand to take the oath before she took the stand and her hand was just trembling. And as she walked towards the witness stand, her legs were wobbling. So at first she appeared very nervous.

But as the testimony went on, she put her message across and she put her story across.

COLLINS: And in fact, I know that she went into detail about her relationship with Thomas Hose from 1996 until 1998.

David, did she reveal anything new today on that stand?

CONTI: Not a whole lot of new bombshells, but obviously some graphic detail about what she says was a sexual relationship with Thomas Hose during that time.

COLLINS: And Lawrence, now to you, I know that you're representing Tanya. It turns out that she had actually run away prior to her disappearance. In fact, she spent nearly a week with Thomas Hose, then returned home for four days before her then very extended disappearance. Does this weaken the case against Thomas Hose?

LAWRENCE FISHER, ATTORNEY FOR TANYA KACH: Not at all. The case against Thomas Hose boils down to he was 37, she was less than 16. They had sex. That's a crime in Pennsylvania.

COLLINS: Is that really what it boil down to? Is it that simple?

FISHER: It is that simple.

COLLINS: James, how do you feel about that? Tanya admitted today that Thomas Hose never physically harmed or restrained her, but she was a 14-year-old girl who says she was in a sexual relationship with a 38-year-old man. Isn't that just as simple? It's a crime in Pennsylvania.

ECKER: Heidi, if everything she says is true and a jury buys that and believes it, you're right. But we still live in America, and we still live by the jury system. And you got to know as I know that there's two sides to every story. And we'll hear the rest of the story when we get to a courtroom.

And as you just so ably said, she never was restrained in any way, shape or form. She admitted she was never threatened to be harmed in my way, she was never hit. She had never...

COLLINS: But does your client, Mr. Ecker, deny having sexual relations with a minor?

ECKER: My client has never taken the stand and he pled not guilty. So right now, he is not guilty and he doesn't have to say anything at all. You know that, Heidi. And certainly I know that and the lawyer knows that.

COLLINS: I also know that Judy Sokol, beautician accused of hiding Tanya and changing her appearance was also in court today.

If she did help hide Tanya and help her change her appearance, that makes it sound like Thomas Hose was possibly doing everything he could to keep Tanya from actually being discovered.

Your response to that thought process?

ECKER: Heidi, if in fact all this comes out and it all turns out that way, that's one thing. And as I said before, there is always the rest of the story. And we don't have that story yet. This girl ran away many times. We have yet to find out where she ran to, what she did.

COLLINS: Lawrence, tell us how Tanya is handling the adjustment now of returning to her family after apparently all these years?

FISHER: Well, today was a very difficult day. And for Tanya to get her side of the story to the people is -- we hope that won't happen in a court of law. We hope that Thomas Hose won't put the family through that. We hope that he'll do the right thing and accept responsibility for his actions.

COLLINS: Well, we'll have to leave it there, gentlemen. As you say, we'll be following the case. I'm sure of that.

David Conti and James Ecker and Lawrence Fisher, to the three of you, thank you very much.


ROBERTS: In a moment, a story that you're going to want to watch, especially if you have a teenager. A troubling disorder, "Hiding in Plain Sight," that leads people to cut themselves again and again. Rough stuff, but something that parents been shouldn't miss.

First though, Erica Hill, from "HEADLINE NEWS," joins us now with some of the business stories that we're following tonight.

Hi Erica.


And we start off tonight with a change at the top at Ford Motor Company. The company announcing today, that Jim Padilla is stepping down as president and chief operating officer. Now taking over those responsibilities? A guy with a familiar name, Bill Ford. And if you think he's already got a few duties there, you're right. He is also the chairman and CEO.

It turns out retailing could probably use a little spring growth spurt. There wasn't much to be had in March. Wal-Mart, JCPenney and the Gap all posted weak results. But there were a couple of bright spots here -- warehouse giant Costco and Nordstrom. And Martha meet Macy's. Martha Stewart's company is coming out with a line of upscale home furnishings for Federated Department Stores, which owns Macy's and Bloomingdales. Financial terms were not disclosed, but you can look for though those goods, John, in the fall of 2007 -- if you're planning to redecorate.

ROBERTS: Yes, well what are we looking at here, designer 2 by 6 cots?

HILL: You never know.

ROBERTS: Erica, thanks very much.

Tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING" Comedian Whoopi Goldberg says being a parent is serious business. She talks about the difficulties of parenthood as well as her new show on Nickelodeon called "Just for Kicks."


WHOOPI GOLDBERG, COMEDIAN: The worst thing that I learned about parenting was that I couldn't be the parent I thought I could be. Which meant that I actually had to be the bad guy, that I couldn't be the friend, that I had to be the person who said enough.

And they do hate you for days and they don't speak to you and they vibe you. But eventually they need you. And they come back. So it's really learning how to surf.


ROBERTS: You can see the rest of Whoopi Goldberg's interview with Miles O'Brien tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING" starting at 6:00 a.m. Eastern. So sleep quickly.


And just released tonight, new pictures of ABC Newsman Bob Woodruff. See how he's doing after the ambush in Iraq and his long and difficult recovery back home.

ROBRETS: Also imagine that life is so painful that you inflict pain on yourself to dampen it. Could your child be grappling with the very same demons? Coming up, how to win the battle against cutting.


COLLINS: There's a disturbing trend in America that's been "Hiding in Plain Sight." Experts say millions of people, mostly teenagers, are into self-mutilation, cutting. They're inflicting pain and injury on their own bodies, but some are fighting and winning the battle against the blade.

CNN's Adaora Udoji reports.

ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For years, Danielle -- a cheerleader, a gifted student, a budding actress -- has kept a secret from nearly everyone. Always smiling, but battling depression and teenage stress, using scissors and knives to cut herself.

DANIELLE HURST, CUTS HERSELF: It made me feel like all of my troubles were flowing out. And it wasn't blood. It was, you know, it was my troubles with my mom and my problems at school.

UDOJI (on camera): Shocking to some. But experts estimate up to six million Americans injure or mutilate themselves, often through cutting. And that number, they say, is growing.

(voice-over): Danielle started at 12 when it felt like she was fighting with everyone in her life. Rock bottom came when she was 16. Danielle so depressed she could barely leave her room.

HURST: I had to do it every couple of hours to make myself feel better and I felt like...

UDOJI (on camera): Just to get through the day?

HURST: Oh, yes.

UDOJI (voice-over): Danielle's mother remembers the shock when her daughter first showed her the scars.

JACQUE OBENHUBER, MOTHER: We're just going to get this fixed right now, make it go away. It was a silly thought. Things like that don't go away.

UDOJI: Finally, they came here, to Self Abuse Finally Ends Alternatives, a 30-day in-patient program specializing in self injury.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Impulse control disorder.

UDOJI: Doctors say self injury ranges from cutting to burning to beating one's self and is often symptomatic of other problems, like depression, anxiety or sexual abuse.

Danielle joined the two dozen others in the program.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm 30 and I'm from Toronto, Ontario.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm 19 and I'm from Long Island, New York.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name's Em. I am 16 and I...

UDOJI: Though it's mostly females here, experts estimate 40 percent of those who injure themselves are males. They say there's no typical profile. People from all races, ages and economic backgrounds do it. But they all have one thing in common.

Does always hurt? I mean, is that the...


UDOJI: No? It's not?

It's hard to believe...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Box cutters galore.

UDOJI: When Danielle and her new friends are talking about box cutters, knives, razors. But the cutting's like an anesthetic, says Wendy Lader, co-founder of SAFE Alternatives. She says they're not trying to kill themselves. They're trying to stop the pain.

DR. WENDY LADER, CO-FOUNDER, SAFE ALTERNATIVES: It's sort of anti-suicide. They're trying to survive.

UDOJI: The program aims, through group therapy up to nine hours a day, to teach them new ways to survive. Five days in, Danielle's talking about painful memories.

HURST: And I'll wake up, you know, out of breath because it's just a flashback of something that I've done.

UDOJI: Here, doctors believe everything should be in the open, including sharp objects. So Danielle and the others learn to control their impulses.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Danielle, congratulations on graduating from SAFE.

UDOJI: After four tough weeks...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How does it feel, baby? To be a graduate.

HURST: Liberating.

UDOJI: After two weeks at home, she's still feeling optimistic.

HURST: My whole world doesn't change because I went through SAFE. But I'm the one that changed and I know how to fight the feelings now.

UDOJI: And Danielle knows that every day she'll be tested.

Adaora Udoji, CNN, Naperville, Illinois.


COLLINS: For more perspective on this growing problem, I talked with Wendy Lader, who you just saw in Adaora's story. She's the co- founder of Self Abuse Finally Ands Alternatives.


COLLINS: Wendy, it's difficult to understand how someone could actually deliberately cut themselves. Explain to us what people who engage in this cutting behavior really get out of it. What does it do for them?

LADER: It's an immediate sense of relief for the folks who do it, telling me that when they have a jumble of emotions that feel too much for them to bear, that there's an immediate sense of relief.

COLLINS: You also say it really doesn't actually hurt as much as someone might think. How can it not hurt?

LADER: Well, for some people it does hurt. I don't want to make a blanket statement. But for others, there's an analgesic effect. We believe that there are endorphins or opiates naturally occurring that are released into the brain. And that it basically has an analgesic effect so that people don't feel very much.

COLLINS: In the video that we are seeing, right next to you on the screen, it's amazing, the scarring and the marks that it leaves behind. It is hard to understand how it doesn't hurt.

If fact, though, you say that people who abuse or mutilate themselves are often stigmatized, too. I mean, others think that maybe they're doing it just for attention. Are they?

LADER: Well, there might be a part that's for attention, but most of these folks do it in private. That's changing a little bit. People are doing it more out with other friends and in public; but for the most part, they do it on places on their body that other people don't see.

I do believe that most folks who are self-injured do believe that they're misunderstood and that people don't understand how much emotional pain they're in. But I don't think that anyone should minimize this as just for attention.

COLLINS: Any chance that it's the kind of thing that could sort of become a fad?

LADER: I think it already is.

COLLINS: And so people see friends doing it and say, hey, you know, I'm going to try this?

LADER: It's already happening, that it's -- it used to be a very secretive behavior, and now kids are doing it with girlfriends. And yes, somebody is doing it. And it is very rare that you find kids who haven't -- don't know someone or haven't heard about this at this point in time. So kids are trying it, no doubt.

COLLINS: If you're a parent and you find that your child is self-mutilating themselves, I mean, that is scary.

LADER: It's terrifying. And I would feel the same way. I mean, I certainly wouldn't want my child putting scars on their body every day until they get better. This is a behavior that can have long lasting consequences.

COLLINS: Wendy Lader, thank you.

LADER: Thanks for having me, Heidi.


ROBERTS: Boy, I tell you, it's still difficult to understand, though. But you got to feel for those kids.

COLLINS: Apparently they say it doesn't hurt and they're not trying to commit suicide. I mean, it's not what you would expect looking at those pictures. That's for sure.

ROBERTS: Boy, obviously, troubled teens.

A welcome change of tone when we come back.

Months after he was nearly killed in Iraq, Anchor Bob Woodruff goes home.

COLLINS: And who would want to trade a seat next to Star Jones for one next to Matt Lauer? Certainly not me. Coming up, meet the woman who is doing just that.

360, next.


ROBERTS: Some welcome new pictures tonight of a face that so many of us have grown to care about. ABC Anchor Bob Woodruff at the kitchen table at home, back from weeks in the hospital, then weeks more in a rehab center.

Bob and Cameraman Doug Vogt were severely wounded in Iraq in a roadside bombing back at the beginning of January.

In an e-mail today, Bob said he's moving on to an outpatient facility for additional treatment. "I can't tell you," he writes, "what a blessing it is. Though I know there is still a long road ahead, it's nice to be feeling more like myself again--laughing with family, reading bedtime stories and reminding my kids to do their homework." And we might add, keep it up, Bob.

ABC has said that when Bob Woodruff is fully recovered, his anchor seat will be there waiting for him.

COLLINS: Of course, it is not clear when that might be. But this much is certain, when he comes back, the network landscape, his competition will be different.

One day after Katie Couric announced she was joining "CBS News," we learned who'll be taking her place on "Today."

Here's Jeanne Moos.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Get out your hankie. On this day "The View" was clouded with tears.

MEREDITH VIEIRA, THE VIEW: I believe in growth, but right now I'm feeling terrific growing pains.

MOOS: For Meredith Vieira, the view is apparently better over at the "Today" show. Better, but bittersweet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And now I need a hug, don't you?


MOOS: Better get out two hankies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I'm going to miss the person to my right. I just want you to know that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not going to kiss you on camera. I am not because we're going to make out...


MOOS: Vieira's next stop was NBC's press conference, where she sat next to the new man in her life, Co-Host To Be Matt Lauer. A definite change from "The View's" all female cast. VIEIRA: I had the chance to meet Matt -- and I said at the time, it was like going out on a blind date, and you really like the guy. Either because I've been nine years with four women that I'm just man crazy. Become a lesbian, I get a guy. I don't know, but.

MATT LAUER, CO-ANCHOR, "TODAY": I'm thrilled, Meredith, to know that it was me or a lesbian.

MOOS: Don't take all the lesbian jokes wrong, Vieira has a husband, a former network news producer who manages nicely despite having multiple sclerosis.

Vieira and Matt Lauer met alone at his apartment about five months ago to see if they would click.

LAUER: We had dinner, and I noticed that by the end of the evening, we were giving each other a lot of grief.

MOOS: Already they're sounding like Regis and Kelly.

LAUER: Oh I'll come over to CBS to pick you up...


LAUER: Can I tell the story?

MOOS: You'd be all smiles too, if you were about to make this kind of money. One tabloid figured out Katie would be making $60,000 a day doing the CBS Evening News. That kind of money inspires this kind of cartoon -- "I realize how difficult and ch -- challenging a job it is to be a news anchor." Meredith Vieira used to do hard news, but her recent years at "The View" have been more provocative.

VIEIRA: I'm going to have to be reined in a little. It's funny, I had 20 years of news where I never said anything. Now every other word out of my mouth is orgasm. You know, I've got to...

MOOS: She and Lauer are both Capricorns, sharing the same birthday -- December 30th. One day Matt was lamenting the loss of Katie...

LAUER: I mean, I'm going to miss her like crazy.

MOOS: And the next...

LAUER: I mean, even today I feel a little like I'm cheating, you know. I mean, you know, Katie just announced yesterday. She's somewhere in the building and I got the new girl right here.

MOOS: If you can't co-host with the one you love, love the one you co-host with.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ROBERTS: I used to work with her on the "CBS Morning News." There's going to be times when Matt Lauer won't be able to say a word because he'll be laughing so hard.

COLLINS: Oh yes? She's hysterical. Yes, she definitely seems that way.

More of 360 in just a moment, everybody. Stay with us.