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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Congressman Patrick Kennedy Speaks Of Addiction, Going To Rehab; Latest Poll Numbers Give Republicans Reason To Worry; Porter Goss Resigns; Gerald Robinson Believed To Be First Roman Catholic Priest To Stand Trial In U.S. For Killing A Nun; Martin Anderson's Death Blamed On Boot Camp Guards
Aired May 05, 2006 - 22:58 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, a Congressman named Kennedy is back in rehab, and Washington is buzzing with questions about addiction, preferential treatment, and a night-time crash the Congressman says he doesn't remember.
ANNOUNCER: A blackout, a car crash, and a trip to rehab, all of it raising more questions than answers about Congressman Patrick Kennedy. The "Kennedy Curse."
Millions, including Congressman Kennedy, use Ambien to help them sleep, but for some, the drug has a dangerous dark side.
Pain at the polls -- why the president and his party should worry.
And a new autopsy says this young boot camp inmate didn't die of natural causes. He was suffocated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The truth is out.
ANNOUNCER: But was it an accident, or murder?
Across the country and around the world, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, here's Anderson Cooper.
COOPER: Well, tonight Patrick Kennedy is about to start another round of treatment at the chemical dependency unit of the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. He checked in tonight. We know that. It's his second visit since Christmas.
He is getting help in the wake of a car crash on Capitol Hill, an accident he says he doesn't remember. The evening, he says, included at least two drugs, medicine he was taking, he says, for nausea and the sleeping pill Ambien.
All the angles tonight, starting with a powerful but very carefully worded statement today from Congressman Kennedy. We are airing it for you in full so you can see and hear for yourself why so many questions remain unanswered tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. PATRICK KENNEDY (D), RHODE ISLAND: Over my 15 years in public life, I felt a responsibility to speak honestly and openly about the challenges that I have with addiction and depression. I have been fighting this chronic disease since I was young man, and have aggressively and periodically sought treatment so that I can live a full and productive life.
I struggle every day with this disease, as do millions of Americans. I have dedicated my public service to raising awareness about the chronic disease of addiction and have fought to increase access to care and recovery supports for the many Americans forced to struggle on their own.
This past Christmas, I realized I needed to seek help again, so I checked myself into the Mayo Clinic for addiction to prescription pain medication. I was there over the holiday and during the House recess as well. And I returned to the House of Representatives and to Rhode Island, reinvigorated and healthy.
Of course, in every recovery, each day has its ups and downs. But I have been strong, focused and productive in my term of office. But in all candor, the incident on Wednesday evening concerns me greatly. I simply do not remember getting out of bed, being pulled over by the police, or being cited for three driving infractions. That's not how I want to live my life, and it's not how I want to represent the people of Rhode Island.
The recurrence of an addiction problem can be triggered by things that happen in everyday life. Such as taking the common treatment for a stomach flu. That's not an excuse for what happened Wednesday evening. But it is a reality of fighting a chronic condition for which I'm taking full responsibility.
I am deeply concerned about my reaction to the medication and my lack of knowledge of the accident that evening. But I do know enough that I know that I need help. This afternoon, I'm traveling to Minnesota to seek treatment at the Mayo Clinic to ensure that I can continue on my road to recovery.
The greatest honor in my public life is to serve the people of Rhode Island. And I'm determined to address this issue so that I can continue to fight for the families of Rhode Island with the same dedication and rigor that I have exemplified over the past decade.
I hope that my openness today and in the past and my acknowledgement that I need help will give others the courage to get help if they need it.
I am blessed to have a loving family who is in my corner every step of the way. And I'm grateful to my friends, both here and Rhode Island, for reaching out to me at this time.
And I'd like to call, once again for passage of mental health parity. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: That was Congressman Kennedy today before he left for the Mayo Clinic. He's now there.
Now, the story that he has left behind, and CNN's Brian Todd.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KENNEDY: The incident on Wednesday evening concerns me greatly.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A contrite Congressman Patrick Kennedy speaks about addiction to prescription painkillers and says he'll check into rehab. As to the car accident...
KENNEDY: I simply do not remember getting out of bed, being pulled over by the police, or being cited for three driving infractions.
TODD: But CNN obtained this traffic accident report. Notice a box marked "sobriety," indicating Kennedy had been drinking, and his ability was impaired.
Under "contributing circumstances," officers cite speed, alcohol influence, driving on the wrong side of the street, and driver inattention. Kennedy yesterday denied using alcohol, though he didn't address it specifically today.
(On camera): The report also says Kennedy drove fast down this street without headlights, swerved three times, hit that curb right there, almost hit a police car, came right past the point where I'm standing, then ran into that checkpoint barrier head on.
(Voice-over): The report lists Kennedy's eyes as red and watery, speech slightly slurred, and his balance unsure after exiting his green Ford Mustang.
Kennedy claims a prescribed anti-nausea medication left him drowsy. He also says he took the sleeping pill Ambien.
KENNEDY: That's not an excuse for what happened Wednesday evening. But it is a reality of fighting a chronic condition for which I'm taking full responsibility.
TODD: A law enforcement source tells CNN police are checking Capitol Hill bars and restaurants for Kennedy's whereabouts before the accident.
A Capitol Hill police detective, tightlipped after leaving the bar Hawk 'n' Dove. Kennedy, emphatically denying published reports that he was there.
STUART LONG, OWNER, HAWK 'N' DOVE: I have one night manager who thinks he might have served him.
TODD: The Hawk 'n' Dove owner tells CNN the bar has no receipts from Kennedy. But Capitol Hill police are also facing tough questions about whether they gave preferential treatment to the congressman. CNN's sources and a letter from a police union official to the chief say responding officers were not allowed to give Kennedy a breathalyzer test, were ordered by their superiors to leave the scene, at which point Kennedy was driven home.
CNN obtained a statement from the Capitol Hill police reading, in part, "...it has been determined that in the initial stages, supervisors employed improper judgment. Corrective administrative and personnel action has been taken."
A top congressional source tells CNN the watch commander involved in those decisions has been reassigned. Kennedy did not make clear how long he'll be in treatment and away from Washington.
KENNEDY: I need to stay in the fight.
TODD: Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, as Brian Todd reported, the investigation is in the early stages, both into the crash and police conduct after it happened. We also don't know for certain whether the Congressman Kennedy was taking painkillers or was drinking. What we've got at least for now is a good idea of what happened when.
CNN's Tom Foreman has that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: House will be in order.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Representative Kennedy's trip to trouble appears to have started at the end of a long day in Congress, in which he cast his final vote at 9:06 p.m.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ayes are 226. The nays are...
FOREMAN: No on a port security bill.
Shortly afterward, according to his office, he drove to his nearby home to turn in for the evening. And a minute before midnight, Congress adjourned.
By that time, Kennedy says he had already taken the medication in question, phenergan for nausea and Ambien to help him sleep, both prescribed by doctors. He says he doesn't remember waking up, but at 2:45 a.m., he got behind the wheel again, headed back to the Capitol complex.
Two minutes later, Capitol Police say they spotted him traveling at a high rate of speed, with no lights on, and swerving into the oncoming traffic lane. One officer says he even had to steer out of the way to avoid Kennedy's rushing car. When the congressman finally struck the barricade and stopped, police say his eyes were red and watery, his speech was slightly slurred, his balance was unsure, and he told them at almost 3:00 in the morning he was headed to the Capitol to make a vote.
The police report says he appeared to be under the influence of alcohol, but no sobriety test was administered. Instead, a police supervisor made sure the congressman was given a ride home.
9:00 a.m., Thursday, Representative Kennedy issues a statement saying, "I assumed no alcohol prior to the incident." And he pledges full cooperation with the investigation.
KENNEDY: I never asked for any preferential treatment.
FOREMAN: 12 1/2 hours later, however, as questions mount about what happened, he issues a second statement. And this time he offers an explanation. For the first time, he says prescription drugs may be to blame. Apparently, he wrote, I was disoriented from the medication.
(On camera): Kennedy insists he did not ask for any special treatment from Capitol Police. But the police now say their supervisors showed bad judgment in how they handled this accident.
And investigators are now asking questions in bars and restaurants along his path, clearly trying to find out if Congressman Kennedy made any stops they don't know about before his final stop at the Capitol.
Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, many states don't test for Ambien when making impaired driving arrests. But there's interesting research on the two dozen states that do. Here's the data. According to a survey under way by two forensic groups, 10 labs list Ambien among the top 10 drugs found in impaired drivers.
Patrick Kennedy has been plagued by problems, problems that began long before Washington. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KENNEDY: Over my 15 years in public life, I felt a responsibility to speak honestly and openly about the challenges that I have with addiction and depression.
COOPER (voice-over): Much like his dad, Senator Ted Kennedy, Patrick Kennedy's life is one part politics, one part scandal, with both beginning at an early age.
When he was still a teenager, Kennedy admitted to using cocaine, an addiction that led him to seek treatment in 1986. Two years later, at just 21, he won a seat in the Rhode Island House of Representatives, becoming the youngest Kennedy ever to be elected into office.
In 1994, Kennedy went to Washington as a United States congressman. He's been re-elected five times since.
On Capitol Hill, he's made a name for himself as an advocate for universal health care, protecting the environment, and championing human rights.
KENNEDY: It's the whole family that's affected.
COOPER: But that's not what was making headlines.
KENNEDY: I apologized for my behavior which was uncalled for. And something I'm ashamed of.
COOPER: In 2000, Kennedy allegedly pushed a security guard at Los Angeles International Airport. No charges were brought against him. Kennedy was sued and settled out of court.
A few months later, a New England boat company said that Kennedy had trashed a sailboat he rented.
That same year, he said he was taking prescription drugs for depression, a disease he says he continues to battle with.
For the past few years, he's been trying to reshape his image, but with today's announcement, improving the image of this 39-year-old single congressman may not be as important as his need to get help.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (on camera): Well, some people are probably skeptical that a popular drug like Ambien can trigger the kind of behavior attributed to Patrick Kennedy. Listen to this, though.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I went to bed. I was reading. The next thing I know, there's a policeman at my car door.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We don't know if this is what happened to the congressman, but some users say the drug makes them act out real-life dramas while actually being sound asleep. We'll have that.
Plus, new poll numbers out on President Bush and on Congress. Put it this way, a good number of people feel Washington needs a total makeover.
Also the latest on the priest on trial in the murder of a nun. The defense is up. Their version of this very bizarre case when 360 continues. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, Kennedy has gone to the Mayo Clinic, saying he was taking Ambien and another drug. He didn't say if he was also taking any painkillers which he's admitted to being addicted to in the past.
So the question is, does it make sense that someone would go to rehab simply because of Ambien?
Dr. Drew Pinsky joins us once again from Washington. He's the medical director of the chemical dependency unit at the Las Encinas Hospital in Pasadena, California -- I didn't maul the name as badly this time.
Does it make sense to you, that just taking Ambien and this other drug would be enough to go to rehab?
DR. DREW PINSKY, LAS ENCINAS HOSPITAL: Oh absolutely. Really, you've got to understand addiction is a brain disease. It's marked by a disorder of motivation. So thoughts, feelings, actions all are pushing that person back towards using drugs.
In this case, evidently he went to his doctor complaining of insomnia or anxiety, other things, and low and behold he gets back on drugs again.
The disease itself is defined by consequences. When somebody is using drugs, they have a history of a disease of addiction. They use a substance, they have consequences. That is a sign that their disease is fully blown and active once again.
So while it's true that yes, indeed, a couple doses of Ambien doesn't normally send somebody off to rehab, it's a drug you have to take for a while to be addicted to. And by the way, it's something I treat rather commonly. You can have seizures in Ambien withdrawal, but it doesn't typically cause addiction. But in somebody who is an opiate addict, who is now using what's called hypnotic benzodiazepine, which is what Ambien is. Opiate addiction, when exposed to another substance reactivates the disease in its entirety.
COOPER: So we don't know if he was also taking painkillers. One person has alleged -- a waitress at a bar -- that he maybe had some drinks.
PINSKY: Yes.
COOPER: We don't know if that is true.
PINSKY: Anderson, I got to tell you, from the standpoint as an addictionologist, myself, that is all totally irrelevant.
COOPER: Because?
PINSKY: Because we know his disease is active by virtue of the consequences he's having. He's using substances and having severe consequences. Really all that matters in terms of what combinations of substances he was using will be determining what kind of withdrawal protocol he's on.
Now, he doesn't look to be in any kind of withdrawal right now, so he may not yet even be dependent of anything. But if he's used substances again, with a history of addiction, sufficiently to have consequences, regardless of what combination, regardless of what drugs they were, he needs to be back in treatment and he's doing exactly the right thing.
COOPER: Yes, I was going to say, you're saying what he's done today then is very smart, I mean, beyond the politics of it, but just from an addiction standpoint because he saw a red flag, this crash, and you're saying he went to get treatment.
PINSKY: Right. And in fact, he looks to me like somebody who's finally sort of getting the message a little more deeply. We know -- when somebody comes to treatment the first thing we ask them is, why are you here? You've been using drugs for a long time. Why did you come today? And the most common symptom or the common experience that people have that motivates them to really get into recovery is they believe that they're going to die if they keep going down this track. And having just been in a car accident where you can't remember anything, can be pretty scary to be a pretty good source of motivation to get and stay sober.
COOPER: He's got a history of depression. He's talked about that. How does that factor into addiction?
PINSKY: Well, depression is essentially ubiquitous in addiction. The problem is, how do you tell whether somebody is depressed because they're an addict or depressed because they've used drugs that injure the brain, like speed or ecstasy, or had a preexisting depressive disorder?
In this case he has suggested that he was depressed well before he was addicted, so it does suggest there's a second problem here. However, you cannot treat depression until addiction is completely and thoroughly treated. So the first order of business is getting his addiction on track, then his depression can be managed as well.
COOPER: So what you're saying really is any addict, whether it's someone who's a drug addict or alcohol, you know, dependent on alcohol, even after they've gone into treatment, they should be very careful about any prescription medication they take?
PINSKY: Absolutely. In fact, many physicians aren't really aware of how -- what potential medications can do in terms of triggering addiction. They need to be responsible for themselves. They need to talk to addictionologists, they need to check with their sponsors before they take any medication whatsoever. And they know this. They know what they're supposed to do. When they go to their doctor and ask for things and get it, they kind of know what they're doing. And you got to know, the disease of addiction, again because it's a motivational disorder, they obfuscate and sort of don't really see what they're doing until it's too late.
COOPER: It's fascinating and it is sad, obviously, developments today. Dr. Drew Pinsky, appreciate you joining us. Thanks.
PINSKY: My pleasure.
COOPER: Fascinating.
As we said, the drug Congressman Kennedy says he used, Ambien, is a best-selling prescription sleep pill in the country. The makers of Ambien say the drug helps users wake up refreshed.
Trouble is, some users like Kennedy say they find themselves not only sleep walking but sleep driving and more.
CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta's actually has reported extensively on this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The man in this police video looks drunk, but he may actually be asleep. He says he was sleep driving the night he was arrested, after taking two Ambien tablets.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I went to bed. I was reading. The next thing I know, there's a policeman at my car door.
GUPTA: He doesn't want us to use his name or show his face. According to him, he doesn't even remember getting into the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At some point, I got up. I got dressed. I came downstairs, got my car keys. I drove to a grocery store that is probably three minutes away from home. I went in the store. I bought three packages of cookies. As I was leaving the grocery store, that's where the police report says the policeman first saw me.
GUPTA: His case is on appeal, after being convicted with driving under the influence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the first time I really kind of came to, was when they put me in the first cell and I saw a telephone and I called a friend of mine who's an attorney.
WILLIAM C. HEAD, ATTORNEY: He took it for the first time, and the next thing he knows, he's in handcuffs.
GUPTA: All of this might sound a little bizarre, but Judy Evans knows just what these people are talking about. Six years ago, the 59-year-old grandmother started taking Ambien for insomnia.
JUDIE EVANS, USES PRESCRIPTION AMBIEN: I would go to sleep and I would sleep all night long -- at least I thought I was sleeping all night long.
GUPTA: A few weeks later, her son caught her turning on the oven and the stove and taking food from the refrigerator -- in her sleep.
EVANS: I had the burners on, and that I could have started a fire and put so many people at risk.
GUPTA: Strangest of all?
EVANS: I don't remember a thing about it.
GUPTA: Evans says she stopped taking the Ambien, and the sleepwalking stopped as well.
DR. CARLOS SCHENCK, MINNESOTA REGIONAL SLEEP DISORDERS CENTER: These people remember nothing.
GUPTA: Dr. Carlos Schenck says he has documented 32 cases of people with no previous history of sleepwalking who began sleepwalking, including walking, eating, even driving while sleeping under the influence of Ambien.
SCHENCK : Ambien does increase the percent of slow wave sleep, which is the stage of sleep that promotes sleepwalking.
GUPTA: Doctors wrote more than 26 million prescriptions for Ambien last year, making it far and away the most used sleeping pill. In a statement, Ambien's manufacturers, Sanofi-Aventis, says it could not comment on specific cases, adding this, "It is important to emphasize that although sleepwalking may occur during treatment with AMBIEN, it may not necessarily be caused by it. It is difficult to determine with certainty whether a particular instance of sleepwalking is drug induced, spontaneous in origin, or a result of an underlying disorder."
There is no large study to gauge the risk, but for the vast majority of Ambien users, Dr. Schenck says, don't worry, and to follow the warning labels provided with prescriptions.
SCHENCK: Even a sip of alcohol with Ambien could be dangerous. So, I would strongly discourage any use -- even a sip.
GUPTA: And if you ever do sleepwalk after taking the drug, you should stop taking it.
This man wishes he had.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had no intention of driving. And I would just like people to know that -- in particular, the judge that hears my appeal.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: That report from 360 M.D. Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
Now to serious troubles for the president and his party. The president's approval ratings are bad enough. Voters give Congress worse grades. Some say conditions are ripe for -- well, not exactly a revolution, but a big change in November. Our ace political team weighs in ahead. Plus, a power shuffle at the CIA. Goss is out. Michael Hayden is apparently in. We'll tell you who he is and what it means for all of us. Next on 360.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: President Bush has famously said he doesn't pay attention to polls. If that's true, he could be in for a big surprise, come November. The mid-term elections are just six months away, and the latest poll numbers might give Republicans a reason to worry.
Here's CNN's Bill Schneider.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They do not know what they're doing, and they are in it for themselves.
BILL SCHNEIDER, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Is it 1994 again? Remember 1994? In came Newt Gingrich, the Contract with America, the Republican Revolution. That was the last time angry voters rose up and overthrew the majority party in Congress.
It sure looks a lot like 1994 in the polls. The latest "Associated Press" IPSOS poll shows Congress's approval rating dropping to a low of 25 percent this month. That's the lowest rating for Congress since -- gulp -- 1994. Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why? Because they're not doing much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They do not know what they are doing and they are in it for themselves.
SCHNEIDER: Congress can't pass immigration reform, they can't pass a budget, they can't even control their own spending.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're doing things that you and I would go to jail for.
SCHNEIDER: Ethics? Don't get us started. Jack Abramoff, Tom DeLay, Duke Cunningham and now a Democrat William Jefferson under investigation.
Can Congress do something about gas prices? Why, yes. A $100 rebate for all Americans. That proposal got laughed off the agenda.
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: What does $100 buy you? Two tanks of gas, if you're lucky? Is that the best we can do in Washington, D.C., and then say adios, voters, see you in November? We've taken care of the problem? Well, we certainly have not.
SCHNEIDER: There is mounting evidence that voters may take out their anger on Republicans this fall. It's their Congress. Has been for most of the past 12 years. A majority of Americans say they'd like to turn Congress over to the Democrats. Some Republicans see the tsunami warning.
REP. CHRIS SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: I happen to believe we're losing our moral authority to lead this place.
SCHNEIDER: They may also be losing their base. Only 37 percent of Republicans approve of the job Congress is doing. More than 60 percent disapprove -- and those are Republicans. Republicans console themselves by repeating the mantra, all politics is local. Which is true, except when it's not true. It was not true in 1994, and maybe not this year either.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Fascinating question, whether 2006 will be 1994 all over again. CNN's Bill Schneider, John Roberts and Candy Crowley, part of the best political team in the business, joined me earlier tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: So John, what do Republicans try to do to fire up the base and make sure that conservatives turn out for the midterm elections?
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, if you had the answer to that question, you'd probably be able to win the Kentucky Derby as well. I mean, certainly what they have to do is they've got to throw out whatever playbook they've been using up until this point because the conservatives are just getting more and more lackadaisical every day. At this point they're saying that they don't really trust what the White House is doing. They don't trust what Congress is doing. And you know, if the Democrats were to win, well, I think up to 45 percent of them said that that wouldn't be so bad.
COOPER: Candy, Karl Rove was recently stripped of his policy portfolio, apparently to focus on the midterm elections. Is it too little, too late even for him?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it's difficult for one person, as brilliant a strategist as he may or may not be, to turn this thing around for Republicans. They're trying all sorts of things. I think the president's threat to veto a spending bill that's up on Capitol Hill certainly has to do with that conservative base.
I think what we've been hearing lately -- judges -- that's a huge conservative issue. They turn out on the subject of judges and wanting to put more conservative judges in so when Democrats try to block it, that tends to be something that causes conservatives to give money and causes them to get to the polls.
COOPER: Well, Bill, I mean, do they come up with I guess some wedge issues? I mean, what are the issues that conservatives are most outraged about? I mean, Candy just mentioned judges.
SCHNEIDER (on camera): Judges, abortion, same-sex marriage. And the leadership of the Senate has promised that there would be votes on those measures, some of those social issues, this summer. Those are the things that get conservatives going and the Democrats are angry because they say these aren't real votes. They're never going to pass. These are just votes to raise money. But they'll raise money for both sides. Those are wedge issues, which means they divide both sides. Democrats can raise money on those things, too.
COOPER: It's interesting, John, because people are talking about, you know, more in favor of Democrats and perhaps even a democratic Congress. It seems more, though, a push for just change, not necessarily any particular policies of the Democrats. I suppose when Congress' approval numbers are so low, it works in the Democrats' favor.
KING: I think the Democrats right now are benefiting from the fact that the Republicans are just sliding in the polls, they're battling with each other. They think they're in a circular firing squad right now.
Democrats, all they need to do for the next little while is stand on the sidelines and watch all of this happen. But they can't even do that. I mean, they keep bumping into things on Capitol Hill. But over the course of the summer, I think the Democrats do need to try to come out with some alternative plans.
We saw Joe Biden try to float one of those earlier this week on Iraq. They can't be the party of no forever. They've got to come out with something, but for right now, if they just stand back and they let the Republicans self-destruct, they'll be in a little bit better position.
COOPER: Well, Candy, a lot of Democrats, you know, keep saying, well we've got a positive agenda we're going to come out with it soon and talk about our plan. Howard Dean just said his party must earn public approval in order to govern again. Do you think they can just stand by on the sidelines and watch the Republicans self-destruct?
CROWLEY: I don't. There's a lot of old saws in politics. And one of them is you can't beat something with nothing. It's too early, though. I mean, the timing is also everything. It's another one of those old saws. They do it now, it sort of floats off into the ether.
Come fall, when people are just beginning to focus on those elections, you'll see Democrats come out with here's our plan on this, or they'll have some sort of umbrella thing like Contract with America, that the Republicans had in '94. They'll do something. But right now they just don't feel like people are paying that much attention.
COOPER: Bill, is it possible this is just sort of, you know, liberals getting excited? I mean, it is six months away. Six months ago, I don't think people would have been talking about Democrats, you know, retaking the Congress. Who knows what's going to happen a few months from now.
SCHNEIDER: Liberals are licking their chops. They see real opportunities ahead. They think this is 1994 in reverse. And to be a little contrary in here, you know, sometimes you can beat something with nothing. You can do that if people are really angry at something. If they say throw the bums out, they're making a mess of things, they'll just take the alternative, all it has to be is something else.
COOPER: Interesting. Bill Schneider, Candy Crowley, John Roberts, thanks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: A big change at the CIA today, the director is out, with a resignation as mysterious as the agency he led. Tonight we'll tell you who may replace him and a new development in another story we're closely following.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The truth is out. We all knew how Martin passed away. So I'm relieved and happy today it's a beginning. Justice needs to be served.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That is the mother of a 14-year-old boy who died a day after guards beat him. Today the results of a second autopsy are in. She says there's a cover-up.
All that and more, and the latest on the priest accused of murder.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN BREAKING NEWS)
COOPER: Big news out of the CIA. Earlier today the agency's Director Porter Goss suddenly resigned, leaving many to wonder why he left and who's going to replace him. Tonight, we have an answer.
With that, let's go live to CNN Senior National Correspondent David Ensor.
David, who's replacing him?
DAVID ENSOR, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, we're hearing from a number of sources that they believe that the choice will be General Michael Hayden, who is currently the number two man in U.S. intelligence. This is a man who is a safe pair of hands, no question about, a seasoned intelligence officer. He's the principal deputy director of national intelligence right now. Oversees the day-to-day activities of the National Intelligence Program. He is the highest ranking military intelligence officer in the armed forces with four stars on his shoulders. He earned that fourth star last year after 36 years in the military. And he is the longest serving director before that of the National Security Agency, which is kind of the big ear of the U.S. government.
COOPER: So he used to run the NSA, so he knows a lot about signals intelligence.
ENSOR: Right.
COOPER: What is the National -- what is he doing now? I didn't quite understand that.
ENSOR: He's Negroponte's deputy, basically.
COOPER: OK. How would he differ from Porter Goss?
ENSOR: Well, he's very seasoned, very knowledgeable. At the same time -- and really an excellent manager. But he doesn't -- he's never run human intelligence before. So he's going to have a steep learning curve in that area. And he also, as the former NSA director, you know, could face a lot of questions before Congress about the warrantless wiretap program. So it's not without complexity, this appointment, if it is, indeed, going to be General Hayden.
COOPER: Will he be able to fix the problems that Porter Goss couldn't? I mean, the agency, you know, it seems like a revolving door of directors. And that is not -- that can't be good for intelligence gathering.
ENSOR: It is not. And one would have to hope that if General Hayden comes in, he will stay for the rest of President Bush's term, and there will be some stability over there at the CIA, which is badly needed.
Can he fix the things that haven't been fixed so far? Probably some of them. I mean, he is a very intelligent man. I'm sure he'll -- he's a very good analyst of what the problems are and how to tackle them. But this is a big, big problem. There's been a dramatic remake of the way intelligence is constructed in the post 9/11 world by Congress and by the president's orders. And it's simply going to take time for the community to get itself oriented around the new organizational structure. I'm not sure that any one man can change the fact that it's going to take a while.
(END BREAKING NEWS)
COOPER: That was David Ensor in Washington. Now, if Michael Hayden is named CIA director, he's going to replace a chief who was only at the helm for a year and a half, porter Goss. Some may say his decision to retire was a surprise, but inside the intelligence community, his demise may have come down to a question of control.
CNN's Elaine Quijano has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush's handpicked choice to run the CIA quit after just 20 months on the job. In making the announcement, the president named no replacement.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Porter's tenure at the CIA was one of transition, where he's helped this agency become integrated into the intelligence community. And that was a tough job. He's led ably.
PORTER GOSS, OUTGOING CIA DIRECTOR: I would like to report back to you that I believe the agency is on a very even keel. Sailing well.
QUIJANO: But by many accounts, turbulence marked Goss' time in charge of the spy agency. While neither Goss, nor the president offered an explanation for the sudden resignation, ignoring questions from reporters, intelligence sources close to the discussions about the CIA's future say Goss' departure was anything but a surprise. The reason? Sharp differences between Goss and the man he reported to, John Negroponte, the director of National Intelligence, a job created after Goss was appointed CIA director.
An intelligence source says Negroponte wanted changes, moving functions from the CIA to Negroponte's umbrella agency, the DNI. But Goss pushed back, hard, arguing those changes would weaken the CIA. In the end, Negroponte took his case to the White House for resolution, where top Bush aides sided with him.
A senior administration official says Negroponte did raise with Goss the idea that he leave, and says the decision was ultimately based on a mutual understanding between Negroponte, Goss and President Bush.
John McLaughlin, the man who temporarily held the job before Goss, says the resignation is not a sign the CIA is in disarray, but...
JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: The danger here is that we could go back into an era where we have resolving-door directors. With Porter Goss' departure, we'll have something like three directors in four years. And that's seldom a good thing.
QUIJANO: Elaine Quijano, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, coming up, a teen dies after being beaten at a boot camp. Officials -- well they said it was from a disease. Now a new autopsy report tells a very different story. And his parents say it's a cover-up.
Also tonight, a most unholy act -- a nun stabbed 31 times, a priest accused of killing her. The defense says they can prove he didn't do it. We'll have the latest from inside the court, next on 360.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, on Monday the trial of a priest accused of killing a nun resumes in Ohio. Prosecutors say it was a ritual murder, one full of religious symbols. The jurors have already seen enough for a lifetime. And that was just from the prosecution. Today, they heard from the defense.
CNN's Gary Tuchman has the latest from inside the courtroom.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gerald Robinson is believed to be the first Roman Catholic priest to stand trial in a U.S. court on charges of killing a nun. But that's not the only unusual aspect of this case. Sister Margaret Ann Pahl was murdered 26 years ago on the day before Easter, her body found in a hospital chapel by this nun.
SISTER MADELYN MARIE GORDON, DISCOVERED BODY: Her legs were together. Her arms were down by her side. Her head was in alignment.
TUCHMAN: She had been stabbed 31 times, nine of those times through an altar cloth over her heart. The wounds, in the shape of an upside down cross.
Chilling prosecution testimony came from a priest whose expertise is liturgy and the occult.
FATHER JEFFREY GROB, ARCHDIOCESE OF CHICAGO: The inverted cross on the person is a mockery to God. It's a mockery to the person. Again, you're taking someone that's dedicated to God, and every aspect that you can, you're violating.
TUCHMAN: The jury was taken to the chapel to see the 1980 murder scene. The religion reporter for the "Toledo Blade," who was writing a book on the case, says prosecutors want to show the jury this could not have been a random murder.
DAVID YONKE, RELIGION EDITOR, TOLEDO BLADE: That somebody who committed this murder had a very high knowledge of Catholic or Christian rituals, and therefore was doing satanic rituals or some kind of anti-Christian rituals to kind of mock God, mock this holy devout nun and mock the church.
TUCHMAN: Father Robinson, who continues to remain out on bond and wears his collar in court, was a chaplain in the Toledo hospital where Sister Pahl was murdered.
Prosecutors say this letter opener, found in the priest's desk was the murder weapon. A letter opener with an image of the U.S. Capitol building on it.
YONKE: And on the altar cloth, there was this little stain that they magnified. And when they magnified it, it was a blood stain. You could see the rectangular shape of the main part of the Capitol building and the oval part of the dome. It was pretty clear, within this little circle.
TUCHMAN: But as the defense began its case...
ALAN KONOP, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And your indication as to his demeanor was a mild, quiet man? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's correct.
TUCHMAN: An effort was made to convince the jury a missing pair of scissors could have been the murder weapon instead.
KONOP: You did a comparison with the scissors and the dress?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
KONOP: And is it fair to say that it was the opinion of Criminalist Franks and you that the holes in the dress were made by a similar instrument?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something of the same size, yes.
TUCHMAN: A nephew of the slain nun has been attending the trial. He's not saying if he thinks Gerald Robinson is the killer, but...
LEE PAHL, NEPHEW, SLAIN SISTER: The worst of the punishment for whoever did it will not be here on earth.
TUCHMAN: To many, this case seems stranger than fiction.
YONKE: Sounds like the "Da Vinci Code" or something. It's very far out.
TUCHMAN: Because there was no death penalty in Ohio at the time of the crime, Robinson, who presided over Sister Pahl's funeral, faces the possibility of life in prison.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN (on camera): Defense attorneys will continue to call their witnesses this Monday. It does not appear that Father Robinson will take the stand in his own defense. It could go to the jury, this case, as early as Tuesday or Wednesday.
Father Robinson was in the hallway of this courthouse behind me just before the lunch break. I spent a couple of seconds asking him this question. I said, how do you feel the trial is going so far? And he said to me, pretty good. We'll see if he feels the same way when the jury comes back with a verdict -- Anderson.
COOPER: Have prosecutors indicated what they think an alleged motive was for Gerald Robinson? For murder?
TUCHMAN: Well, it's a really interesting question, Anderson. And one of the things the witnesses have talked about during this case is that this nun was very stern and that perhaps the nun and the priest didn't get along so well. But obviously, who would commit a killing like this? How could that lead to a killing? And it's one thing the prosecutor said during jury selection, they told the jurors -- the prospective jurors, we don't know what the motive was. Don't hold that against us. We just know that this father killed this nun.
COOPER: Gary Tuchman, thanks. A 14-year-old boy beaten by guards at a boot camp. He died a day later. Officials, well, they said it was a natural cause at first. But a new autopsy result says he was killed. The story coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, the family of a 14-year-old boy who died in a Florida boot camp want answers. That videotape caught guards beating the teenager. He was dead a day later.
Today a second autopsy result was released, and the findings are disturbing, to say the least.
CNN's Susan Candiotti investigates.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This time Martin Anderson's death is being blamed on guards at the boot camp, forcing smelling salts up his nose.
In a written statement, a second medical examiner appointed by the governor to investigate, calls Anderson's death suffocation due to the actions of the guards.
The teenager's family claimed vindication and accused the original medical examiner of wrongdoing.
GINA JONES, ANDERSON'S MOTHER: So the truth is out now. My baby was murdered in the boot camp, and he tried to cover it up.
CANDIOTTI: The teen collapsed in January during an exercise drill on his first day at the Panama City boot camp. Anderson's family immediately raised questions. So did Florida lawmakers, calling the guards' actions abuse.
The boy's body was exhumed. The governor got involved, and so did the Justice Department, investigating whether excessive force was used.
Today Governor Bush said, I am disturbed by the findings and consider the actions of the Bay County Boot Camp guards deplorable.
The second medical examiner asked NASA to enhance the video for his review.
This is a less clear copy released after CNN and the "Miami Herald" sued the state of Florida to obtain it. Here Anderson's head appears to be pulled back, his mouth covered while guards put ammonia capsules up the teenager's nostrils. The second medical examiner says that cut off the 14-year-old's oxygen.
A boot camp incident report obtained by CNN says the capsules were used five times. The same report calls the repeated blows control techniques to make recruits comply with orders. The latest autopsy agrees with the first that the pounding was not fatal. The blows left several bruises, but he was not beaten to death. Both autopsies also agree that Anderson had sickle cell trait. But the original medical examiner continues to insist Anderson did not suffocate. Dr. Charles Siebert says there was no increase in carbon dioxide levels, a key basis for suffocation.
DR. CHARLES SIEBERT, BAY COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: My findings are backed up by science. And I'm comfortable with my findings, and I'm going to stand by them.
CANDIOTTI: Dr. Siebert found the teenager died of natural causes, when physical stress prompted his cells to change form and hemorrhage. Siebert denies any cover up. One of the guard's lawyers called the investigation a witch hunt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's pretty interesting that the governor is bending over backwards to please the vocal crowd that's fussing. And I'm very concerned about the governor putting pressure on all of these individuals to reach a result that would please the victim's family.
CANDIOTTI: The same lawyer (NO AUDIO) and told them to use smelling salts.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Obviously, have some technical problem there at the end of that report from CNN's Susan Candiotti.
Gina Jones and Robert Anderson are the parents of Martin Lee Anderson. They and their attorney, Benjamin Crump, joined me earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: So Gina, you said that you knew in your heart all along that your son was killed by these guards. When you actually heard the coroner confirm it -- the second coroner confirm it, what went through your mind?
JONES: I was relieved the truth finally came out. But I knew what the truth was. We had to go through a lot, just to get the truth out, so I'm happy now.
COOPER: Authorities have initially said, Gina, that they only used what they call, takedown methods. Now we know your son was punched by them, hit from behind, they kneed him, they forced him to inhale ammonia fumes. If it wasn't for this videotape, do you think they would have gotten away with it?
JONES: Yes.
COOPER: Do you watch the tape? I mean, when you first saw this tape...
JONES: No, no, no. I looked at it a little bit. I couldn't look at them sitting up there beating my baby to death. COOPER: And Benjamin, as the attorney, I mean, as horrific as it is for Gina to see the tape, it really tells the story, doesn't it?
BENJAMIN CRUMP, FAMILY'S ATTORNEY: He died from what happened in that videotape. Our eyes didn't lie to us. It was clear what happened to Martin Lee Anderson in the last 40 minutes of his life.
COOPER: And Benjamin, I know you were in the autopsy room to watch the second autopsy done. Was there a moment when you realized that the first coroner -- I mean, I know you believed it all along that the first coroner had been wrong, but was there a moment in that second autopsy in that room when you suddenly -- it became clear?
CRUMP: There was a point there where Dr. Boden (ph) and Dr. Adams and all the doctors are talking, and they say, well, we can rule out sickle cell trait as being the cause of death. And that caught everybody's ear.
COOPER: Because that was what the first coroner had said that he had died of, sickle cell trait?
CRUMP: Yes. And we believe that's just a cover-up to try to exonerate these guards.
JONES: Yes.
CRUMP: Their hometown coroner, trying to cover his homeboys.
COOPER: Gina, I mean several people now have come forward saying that this first medical examiner, Dr. Siebert, made mistakes in other autopsies as well. Do you still believe it was a cover-up?
JONES: Yes, I do.
COOPER: What do you believe he was covering up? Who do you think he was covering up for?
JONES: The guards, the supervisor over the guards, he nurse, the sheriff -- he also played his role in it, too.
COOPER: Robert, who do you think should be held accountable now for your son's death? There have been no charges filed at this point.
ROBERT ANDERSON, MARTIN LEE ANDERSON'S FATHER: I think everybody that was in that video should be held accountable.
COOPER: Gina, a lot of people, you know, would like to believe that the system works and that justice prevails. You know, this whole process for you and your family, I mean, what has this been like for you? What have you learned?
JONES: Hard.
COOPER: Hard.
JONES: They're supposed to teach your kids, not kill your kids. I learned a lot.
COOPER: Well, Gina and Robert and Benjamin, I appreciate you joining us tonight. And we'll continue to follow the case. Thank you.
JONES: Thank you.
COOPER: We're going to have more of 360 in a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: You are looking at a live picture of New York's Empire State Building, bathed in white light, for the 75th birthday of the Empire State Building.
Well, coming up, "LARRY KING" is next. He talks with Christopher Kennedy Lawford, who of course, is a cousin of Congressman Patrick Kennedy, who is now in the Mayo Clinic, seeking treatment.
We will continue to follow that story all weekend long. See you on Monday. Thanks for watching. Have a great weekend.
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