Return to Transcripts main page

Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Court Appearance Set For JonBenet Ramsey Murder Suspect; Israeli Cluster Bomb Controversy; Is New Orleans Prepared For Another Hurricane?

Aired August 25, 2006 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
Almost a year since Katrina -- that's right -- there's another storm heading toward the Gulf, Ernesto. It is growing. And so are doubts about whether the Gulf Coast is ready.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Rebuilding levees, racing the clock, bracing for Ernesto.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is nothing short of remarkable, what was achieved.

ANNOUNCER: But, if a new storm hits, will it be enough? A new report says no and says why.

He says he was with JonBenet when she was killed. Or was John Karr only there in his sick and twisted dreams? We will check his story with the facts.

And they can maim and kill long after the fighting ends, cluster bombs in Lebanon. Did Israel target civilian areas?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Across the country and around the world, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.

Reporting from the CNN studios in New York, here's Anderson Cooper.

COOPER: Hey, thanks for joining us.

We begin tonight with new questions about how ready New Orleans is or isn't for another hurricane. There is a new storm brewing. And it could get ugly -- so, all the angles tonight on Ernesto, now a tropical storm gathering force as we speak, heading toward the warm waters of the Gulf of Mexico. And we all know what that means.

And, with that on the horizon, a new report casting doubt not just on the levees, but the entire system for handling a storm and managing what could become another disaster.

First, though, Tropical Storm Ernesto, where it's going and what it could become.

CNN's Reynolds Wolf is tracking Ernesto, joins us from the Weather Center with the latest.

REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well...

COOPER: Reynolds.

WOLF: Well, Anderson, here is the latest that we have.

Ernesto is now moving deeper into the Caribbean. It is now leaving the islands of Martinique, Saint Lucia and Saint Vincent in its wake. But -- but, right ahead, we have got very warm water, a minimal shear environment, so, great conditions for the system to really strengthen.

Right now, it's just pulsating with power. We have got good outflow to the north and to the eastern side of the storm. And the latest position that we have the storm is just due south of Puerto Rico, with maximum sustained winds at 40 miles per hour.

So, we know where it is. The question is, where is it going to go? Well, the latest path we have from the National Hurricane Center indicates the storm is expected to move to the north and to the northwest, and, by 2:00 p.m. Saturday, should be just due south of Haiti. And, with maximum sustained winds at 45 miles an hour, it is exacted to strengthen even more.

In fact, by the time we get to Sunday, notice, Anderson, winds going up to 65 miles per hour. So, this storm system is expected to strengthen very rapidly.

We go forward in time, and the storm goes just near the Caymans. At 2:00 p.m. by Monday, we're expecting maximum sustained winds at 75 miles per hour -- at this point, no longer a tropical storm, but, rather, a hurricane. And, still, it continues its march to the northwest, moving into the Gulf of Mexico -- by the time we get to Tuesday afternoon, maximum sustained winds at 80 miles per hour -- then, by, Wednesday, moving into the center of the Gulf, by 2:00 p.m. on Wednesday, with maximum sustained winds at 85, still a Category 1.

But one thing you have to remember, as you mentioned, Anderson, right ahead in the Gulf of Mexico, we have got very warm water, again, a minimal shear environment, which means the storm has got a great possibility of getting much stronger.

That being said, there's also the potential the storm could move over land, say, parts of Cuba, especially eastern Cuba, in the higher elevations. If that were to happen, we could expect the storm to weaken, possibly fall apart altogether.

So, there's a lot of things that could happen between now and Wednesday of next week. So, right now, we just need to observe it and prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.

COOPER: When do we know where it will -- I mean, whether or not it's going to hit the Gulf Coast? I mean, at -- at what point in -- in the next couple of days and/or over the weekend, or next week, even, will we get that -- that track?

WOLF: That's an excellent question.

I'm thinking that, by the time we get into -- goodness -- I would say maybe Monday, maybe Tuesday. But you will have to remember, Anderson, these storms, they don't move from point to point. They're really fickle. They really wobble.

For example, you will remember, in 2004, we had Hurricane Charley that came through parts of the Caribbean, went right through parts of Cuba, western Cuba, was going straight towards Tampa Bay, and then made a very abrupt right turn into Punta Gorda, which no one expected -- no one expected at all.

So, again, we -- I think we will have a pretty good idea, maybe on Monday, perhaps Tuesday, but, still, it's anybody's guess.

COOPER: It always is.

Reynolds, appreciate it. Reynolds Wolf, thanks.

WOLF: You bet.

COOPER: All year, we have been going back to New Orleans.

And, along the way, we have seen remarkable people, heroes, really, doing remarkable things, trying to rebuild -- hard hats and engineers working around the clock, literally, on the levees and pumping stations. A lot of hard work has been done. There's no taking away from their -- their accomplishments.

But, tonight, there are new doubts from a panel of engineers and scientists about just how vulnerable New Orleans may yet be, may still be, even after so much hard work.

Their report covers it all -- their bottom line: Rethink everything.

CNN's Sean Callebs explains in tonight's "Keeping Them Honest."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With another storm churning in the Caribbean, Al and Yani (ph) Hebron know what they will do if a hurricane threatens New Orleans.

AL HEBRON, RESIDENT OF LOUISIANA: Whenever you say storm, we pack up, and we get out of here.

CALLEBS: They live in Lakeview, in the shadow of this metal monster, new floodgates and a pumping station built by the Army Corps of Engineers to protect New Orleans.

COLONEL JEFFREY BEDEY, HURRICANE PROTECTION OFFICE, ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS: It is nothing short of remarkable, what was achieved.

CALLEBS: The Corps offers a glowing review of the work it has done.

BEDEY: It is my opinion that the system has not only been repaired to its pre-Katrina levels of protection, but, in fact, is -- from a holistic perspective, is actually a better system than what we had in place a year ago today.

CALLEBS: But there's no way to test the bolstered levees. And, today, an independent group, the American Society of Civil Engineers, said, the levels and flood walls still suffer from serious deficiencies, and that there is no quick fix. The group says, there is only one recourse, if a major storm bears down on the city.

TOM JACKSON, AMERICAN SOCIETY OF CIVIL ENGINEERS: And I think it's so important that the leadership of this area proceed in a calm fashion in an orderly evacuation, if it becomes necessary, in order to protect life and safety.

CALLEBS: Critics say the Corps of Engineers is notorious for proceeding slowly. And there's no question the agency was under the gun to shore up protection around New Orleans, and quickly.

In recent tests, the new pumping station failed to perform the way it's supposed to -- disappointing news for the city.

REP. BOBBY JINDAL (R), LOUISIANA: I think that people are on edge. And if, even with a light tropical storm, you had flooding in the streets, even if it wasn't six feet of water in people's homes, I think, psychologically, that could be devastating to the recovery of this region.

CALLEBS: People here know, it's not a question of if another hurricane hits, but when. And, at this point, residents say, no one knows how New Orleans will handle it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is a big unknown. And that's real scary.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Sean, we know there's not really a plan for rebuilding New Orleans right now. Is there a plan for what happens if the next big one hits?

CALLEBS: Yes, imagine that.

In fact, on the anniversary of Katrina, they could be putting that plan into effect. They have really ramped up, in terms of evacuation, since last year.

We remember the images of the people at the Superdome and the Convention Center. Well, now they have 1,800 buses that are ready to take people north, westward, out of this area. And the city has also signed a deal with Amtrak. They have 47 trains on standby, again, to take people who don't have any other mode of transportation out of this city.

And, remember, they can't go to the Superdome or the Convention Center this year. So, if people do wait around too long, they could pay the price in a big way -- Anderson.

COOPER: Do they have bus drive -- I mean, they -- it doesn't seem like buses is -- is necessarily the problem, as the -- it's getting the bus drivers. Do they have a plan for bus drivers?

CALLEBS: They say they have a plan for bus drivers. And they say they already have a number of those buses here, ready to go, in the city.

But we will have to wait to see how this plan works out, because we have heard great tales about plans all about this hurricane, how the city has things mapped out. And, quite frankly, we have seen a lot of these plans just fizzle at the last minute. So, certainly, no one wants a repeat of what happened last year.

COOPER: Sean, appreciate the reporting, as always. Thanks.

With us now in Metairie, Louisiana, is Ivor Van Heerden, deputy director of the Hurricane Center at Louisiana State University. He heads up the official state investigation of levee failures, and is the author of "The Storm," a great book about what happened before and after Katrina struck. I recommend it. Ivor is really, in my opinion, one of the true heroes of the storm, one of the men who predicted the flooding in New Orleans. Sadly, officials didn't listen to him then. Tonight, we do.

Good to have you on the program, Ivor.

Thanks for being with us.

IVOR VAN HEERDEN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, LOUISIANA STATE UNIVERSITY HURRICANE CENTER: Thank you very much, Anderson.

COOPER: Bottom line, are the levees now better than they were before?

VAN HEERDEN: No. The level of protection is exactly the same as existed pre-Katrina. Basically, we have Category 2 protection.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: How is that possible, with all the -- the -- the -- I mean, these guys have been working hard. I have seen it day and night. They're -- they are down there. How is that possible?

VAN HEERDEN: Well, Anderson, they have done a -- a good job about repairing most of the breaches, fairly robust repairs.

But the weakened -- those eye walls that failed so badly, there are still 40 or 50 miles of them. They're -- many of them are in weakened state. And, also, we did a flyover a week ago, and we saw sections of the MR-GO levees, the Mississippi River-Gulf Outlet levees, the ones that failed so badly, due to wave erosion, are now eroded just from rainfall.

So, we really question the quality of material used there. There's no grass cover. There's no armoring. These things are going to come apart again, if we get another Katrina, I'm afraid.

COOPER: So, you're saying they really, basically, have fixed only the places where there were -- where -- where it failed or there were breaches. The -- the rest of the places that maybe held back then, if there's another big storm, you're saying, those places -- maybe it will breach somewhere else or over top or fail somewhere else?

VAN HEERDEN: Yes. They're -- there are other sections of -- of levee that are sitting on weak soils, they -- the substandard I-wall designs. And, then, again, the -- those levees, made of soil, that have been repaired, have no grass, no protection. And, if we get any waves, they will come apart.

COOPER: So, if another storm the size of Katrina, which we know which was Category 3, although, as you pointed out, the storm surge was just a Category 2, in your book, if we get another storm that size, New Orleans will flood again?

VAN HEERDEN: We will definitely flood. We will take water over the levees. And, again, there's a high probability that we will lose some levees. The -- the worst case is if we got a storm like Katrina that went west of the city. Then, it would really overwhelm the levees.

COOPER: Troubling, indeed.

We're -- we're going to talk to you when we're down there in -- in New Orleans next week. Ivor, appreciate you joining us tonight.

Again, the -- the book is -- is "The Storm." And I recommend it for -- for anyone who wants to really get a full accounting of what really did happen down in New Orleans.

Ivor, thank you.

The...

VAN HEERDEN: Thank you very much.

COOPER: The New Orleans that is bracing for Ernesto and any other storm this season is really a shell of its former self. Here's the "Raw Data."

Between 180,000 and 235,000 people have returned to the city, less than half its pre-Katrina population, roughly equal to the population of New Orleans in 1880. There are just over 435,000 jobs in New Orleans today. That is 29 percent fewer than before Katrina.

More than a third of New Orleans' hospitals remain closed. Just think about that. More than a third remain closed, including seven acute-care hospitals. Of the more than 1,800 people who died in Hurricane Katrina, nearly 1,600 lived in Louisiana.

In the Middle East, Israel comes under investigation by its closest ally -- coming up, why the State Department is very concerned about reports that American-made cluster bombs have been found all over south Lebanon. We will investigate that.

And new developments in the JonBenet Ramsey case -- a small victory for John Karr's legal team. A gag order is in effect, and a court date, also. We will tell you all about that.

Also tonight: Oprah Winfrey makes these kids go wild. She wasn't handing out car keys this time. In fact, it was something even more remarkable, and something far more important -- that story and more, when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: New developments today in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case -- a gag order is now in place, and a court date has been set for John Karr.

The Colorado District Court has announced that John Karr will appear before a judge on Monday. In the meantime, all the lawyers and all the law enforcement officials cannot say a word to the media about the case. Defense attorneys had requested the gag order, just one of the many moves happening now to protect their client, who is, after all, innocent until proven guilty.

CNN's Susan Candiotti brings us up to date.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Seth Temin, a public defender, has already spent hours with his new client, and made his first legal maneuvers. He's asking to keep Karr's handwriting on any new documents under court seal, like this recent signature on his extradition papers, and now found on a new handwritten application to prove he can't pay for a private lawyer.

Legal experts say, the defense wants to force investigators to go to court to get more handwriting samples from Karr to compare with JonBenet Ramsey's ransom note.

Meanwhile, questions remain over whether Karr could have been in JonBenet Ramsey's neighborhood in December 1996. Today, his family again said he was with them every Christmas.

Karr's father and brother told ABC's "Good Morning America" -- quote -- "From the time that John had children, he has never missed a Christmas with his family. And that's any Christmas," said his father.

His brother Nate added, "If he was away from his family during Christmas, it would have been a family scandal."

If Karr flew from home in Atlanta or Alabama and back again, with no one missing him, it would have been tough. CNN obtained Delta's 1996 flight schedule. To get to Denver to hide in the Ramsey house by 5:00 p.m., as he allegedly claims, Karr would have to, for example, leave Birmingham at 9:10 on Christmas Day, and arrive in Denver at 11:20 a.m.

Karr would then have to drive at least another hour to Boulder. Coming home after allegedly murdering the 6-year-old, at about 2:00 a.m., the time of death established by investigators, Karr would have had to leave Denver at 6:40 a.m., change planes in Cincinnati, and get back to Alabama at 1:40 in the afternoon.

Overall, he would have been away if his family for about 30 hours, most of it on Christmas Day.

BOB GRANT, FORMER ADAMS COUNTY, COLORADO, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The answer in this case comes from the DNA. If the DNA is his DNA, then he was in that basement on that night, no matter what family says. If it's not his DNA, then the prosecution's going to have to explain why they believe he was in Boulder at that time.

CANDIOTTI: Again, whether Karr's DNA matches appears to be the key.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Susan, let's talk about the key, then. Is there any word on if or when Karr's DNA will be taken and/or tested?

CANDIOTTI: Well, that's very interesting, Anderson.

You know, for one thing, Karr could have voluntarily given a DNA sample, now that he's in Colorado. But he didn't. Instead, today, his attorneys went to the court and asked to prevent the authorities from taking a DNA sample from him, unless they first get a court order.

And, then, they did something else. The defense asked to disallow any previously taken DNA samples, presumably the one taken from him in Thailand -- and all of this happening, Anderson, without Karr even being formally charged.

COOPER: A lot to -- to figure out. Susan Candiotti, thanks.

From what we have seen today, it looks like John Karr's defense team is ready to fight to prove that he's innocent. And what they have done so far could certainly hinder the prosecution. That, of course, is the whole point of a defense.

Here at 360, we're covering all the angles and all the developments.

Joining me now with more insight into how this case may play out in court in the days ahead, from Boulder, Colorado, is Court TV reporter and attorney Jean Casarez.

Jean, thanks very much for being with us. The public defender...

JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Thank you, Anderson.

COOPER: ... is saying that any DNA evidence taken from Karr this far was not legally obtained. So, how much longer do you think before we actually see DNA testing and results?

CASAREZ: Well, the public defender is asking to be heard in court on this issue, and, so, I think that, definitely, maybe in camera, which means in the judge's chamber. We may not be privy to it, but the attorneys will all get together with the judge and argue the issue, I think.

COOPER: So, do we know, for a fact, whether or not DNA testing has -- whether a DNA sample -- a sample has already been taken? Do we know?

CASAREZ: No, I don't think we do know it, because the two female attorneys that have been so vocal in California, they publicly said that Karr told them that a DNA sample had not been taken in Thailand. Now, that's a confidential communication, truly, but they said it to the public, so, now it's in the public domain.

COOPER: But, theoretically, the -- I mean, the police officers who flew with him on the flight could have taken his -- you know, his much-commented upon wine glass, and -- and, I guess, gotten some DNA off of that.

CASAREZ: True, they could, but I don't think they would go that route at this point. I think they would do it the way -- the legal way that you're supposed to.

COOPER: You -- you say that two orders have come down tonight regarding this case. What are they?

CASAREZ: Very interesting.

One is an order to limit pretrial publicity. And what that is basically saying is that the attorneys, their agents, their parties, secretaries, anyone involved in this case -- in this case, cannot say anything publicly that could taint the jury pool.

They can say some things, the nature of the charges, when the hearings are going to occur. Public documents, the contents, they can talk about. But I think what's interesting, in the center of this order, Anderson, is something that refers to the female attorneys in California.

It says that any attorney that is purporting to represent Mr. Karr, or expressing a desire to represent Mr. Karr, cannot publicly talk about Mr. Karr at all, as far as what they are feeling, their emotions, their integrity, the lack thereof, any confessions, the plea, anything.

So, what that essentially is doing is telling the two female attorneys in California, you can't talk anymore, like you have been doing for the last couple of days.

COOPER: Do we even know if those two women are his attorneys? I mean, they say that they have some signed document from him. And they said they were going to be flying out -- out to Boulder. They're not licensed to practice law, to my knowledge, in Colorado. And now he has a public defender. Who's who?

CASAREZ: No, you're right. It's a great point.

Well, Court TV News kept inquiring in the courthouse today if these two ladies out of California had, number one, called the court to ask about how you apply, the motion that has to be filed with the court in order to appear as his attorney. They have not made any phone calls.

And, secondly, a motion to appear as his attorney has not been filed at all in Colorado.

COOPER: Do you see any issues with the DA having evidence -- or having enough evidence to press charges against Karr within the three days that's required?

CASAREZ: You know, I don't think they would have brought him here to Colorado, if they did not intend to file formal charges.

Now, do I think it's going to be on Monday, the -- initial hearing date? No, I don't. I think, on that day, he will be apprised of his rights and all the procedural, constitutional issues.

But I do think the prosecutor, the district attorney, will stand up and say: Your Honor, I plan on formally charging Mr. Karr on such and such a date.

COOPER: But, in...

CASAREZ: So, I think we will get a little more specific.

COOPER: But, in terms of what's in the arrest affidavit, we're not going to learn that Monday, probably?

CASAREZ: No. No.

COOPER: Why...

CASAREZ: That's going to stay sealed for a while, let me -- trust me.

COOPER: Why -- why does Karr get a public defender, considering -- I mean, he seems to be kind of a world traveler, seems to have some money.

CASAREZ: Appears as though, that's right.

But he handwrote a financial affidavit yesterday -- probably yesterday evening -- talking about his bank accounts, the money he had, the debts he owed. And it was obvious to the public defender, he didn't have the assets to hire attorney, so, the public defender, the chief public defender, has taken him on as a client.

COOPER: I have got to say, you know, for -- for all the -- the bad rap that public defenders get, this guy does seem to have moved pretty quickly to try to protect his client.

CASAREZ: Oh, it's unbelievable.

Listen to this. The financial affidavit that he had to fill out in pen, do you know that that public defender immediately filed a motion to seal that? It's supposed to be a public record, but they filed a motion to seal it, because handwriting -- and Karr's handwriting is going to be such an issue in this case.

COOPER: Everyone is allowed representation. And that's our system.

Jean, appreciate your reporting. Thank you very much.

CASAREZ: Thank you.

COOPER: The arrest of John Karr last week renewed hopes that the decade-long mystery, of course, surrounding JonBenet Ramsey's murder may finally be solved.

This is not the way things normally go. We don't often hear of conclusions to mysteries that have gone on for this long. And even if -- even -- it's even more rare, really, to hear a story like our next one.

CNN's Matthew Chance tells us about a woman who has returned home, after being lost for nearly a decade. It's a remarkable story. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): He's the luckiest father in the world, he says. After eight agonizing years, the child he thought he had lost is found alive.

LUDWIG KOCH, FATHER OF NATASCHA KAMPUSCH (through translator): The first words were "Poppy, I love you." She came to me and we hugged. It was a feeling I can't even describe.

CHANCE: When Natascha Kampusch was abducted in 1998, she was just 10. For all of her teenage years, Natascha was held in this cramped dungeon, with a bed, a sink, and a toilet. She was given some children's books, but little else.

(on camera): Well, this is the house in Strasshof where Natascha was held for more than eight years. You can see, there are police outside now, guarding the entrance. For most of the time, she was held securely, under lock and key.

But, over the years, the man she came to call her master became increasingly careless. And, eventually, she saw an opportunity to escape. CHANCE (voice-over): This is the man police say imprisoned her, 44-year-old Wolfgang Priklopil. Neighbors say he was quiet and polite. After Natascha's escape, he threw himself under a train.

(on camera): What has Natascha told you about what her life was like for that eight years in captivity in the dungeon?

KOCH (through translator): He scared her. He told he had asked for a $1 million ransom, that he had called me for two years, and I would not react at all. He also told her the house was rigged with explosives, and, if she ran away, something terrible would happen.

CHANCE (voice-over): Natascha hasn't appeared in public yet, but her father told me, she seems OK, at least on the surface.

KOCH (through translator): If you remember, she has spent eight years in a dungeon. She looks relatively good, but she's very skinny. She looks all right. But you can see there are effects.

CHANCE: There are still questions about how Natascha was treated, including whether she was sexually abused. Even her father doesn't seem to know that yet.

(on camera): Are you concerned that, during her imprisonment, she was sexually molested?

KOCH (through translator): I'm worried, but nothing has been proven yet. The police are still trying to understand this by asking her subtle questions. I just want to make sure I do everything possible to help to make sure she has a happy and worry-free life.

CHANCE (voice-over): There is, after all, not much else a father can do.

Matthew Chance, CNN, Vienna.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: It is hard to believe.

Well, the U.S. is investigating whether Israel dropped American- made cluster bombs in Lebanon, a possible violation of a secret agreement. What the findings could mean for the U.S.-Israeli relations, coming up, and the latest on the fragile cease-fire.

Also tonight: Oprah Winfrey's destiny -- how the talk show host is fulfilling her lifelong dream by helping young girls thousands of miles away, not giving away cars, giving them whole new lives and a chance at a future -- when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Cluster bombs, the State Department today confirmed that it is investigating allegations that Israel used American-made versions. Look at those images. That is just extraordinary. That is how cluster bombs work, small little bomblets that just decimate an entire area. The controversy is that they used them in civilian areas of Lebanon. That is the question.

The use of the bombs could be a violation of a secret agreement between Israel and the U.S. about when such weapons can be used. More on the controversy now. The latest from CNN senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In southern Lebanon, bomb disposal units are finding and disarming thousands of unexploded cluster munitions that litter the landscape after the recent 34 day Israeli offensive.

JIHAD SAMHAT, UNITED NATIONS: From what we're seeing on the ground, there is tens of thousands of cluster bombs everywhere, scattered everywhere.

MCINTYRE: UN workers and human rights groups report many of the unexploded bomblets come from American-made cluster bombs provided to Israel which could violate the conditions under which they were sold.

BONNIE DOCHERTY, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: The United States had a special agreement with Israel in the '70s that said that Israel was not allowed to use these weapons in populated areas. It violated the rules in its earlier invasion of Lebanon and that moratorium was extended.

MCINTYRE: In the '80s, the U.S. banned sales of cluster bombs to Israel because of how they were used in the 1982 invasion of Lebanon. But the State Department won't discuss the strings attached to the recent sales. A State Department spokesman told CNN simply, "What we are looking to see is if they were used, how they were used, who were the targets."

Because cluster bombs have a five to 10 percent failure rate, dud bomblets can kill and maim long after the fighting stops.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPARD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: One of the problems the human rights people have is that kids come out after the war, after the attack, they find these things and they go off unfortunately at that time producing injury of civilian casualties that you're not looking for.

MCINTYRE: A UN report cited Lebanese army figures that 12 people have been killed and 51 injured from unexploded ordinance, including cluster bombs, since hostilities ended. UN workers have located 288 sites across Lebanon where cluster bombs were used. Mostly, they say, in the three days before cease-fire.

A statement from the Israeli Defense Forces says, "All the weapons and munitions used by the IDF are legal under international law and their use conforms with international standards."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Jamie, this video of cluster bombs you have from the DOD is just extraordinary. We're going to play this again for people to get a look at what how these cluster bombs work. I mean, it just decimates this entire area. If it turns out that Israel did use cluster bombs in civilian areas, what is the U.S. going to do?

MCINTYRE (on camera): Likely, Anderson, probably not much. The problem is the U.S. uses cluster bombs as well. They insist that it's a legitimate munition to use in denying an area to the enemy. And as long as it's used against a military target, they insist it's a legitimate weapon.

But human rights groups have claimed it's not because it's an indiscriminate weapon not so much because of how it's used when it's first employed but because of the high failure rate. And that leaves a lot of these unexploded bomblets around, which human rights advocates say essentially end up being like land mines because they end up causing civilian casualties long after the fighting has stopped. They've called for a ban on these kind of weapons but the U.S. military has insisted that it needs these weapons to use in campaigns.

In fact, they've used them in Iraq. They've been subject to the same kind of criticism that Israel has. So even if they find that Israel has used them, unless it's an egregious violation, they're unlikely to really take any kind of action.

COOPER: Interesting. And it's happened already. It's happened in the past. Jamie, appreciate it. Thanks for the reporting.

All this, of course, adds even more tension to the already- fragile cease-fire between Israel and Hezbollah. We're going to take a look at some of the civilian casualties in just a moment, but first, CNN's Tom Foreman explains just how cluster bombs work and what it's going to take to get them out of Lebanon.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Human rights groups hate cluster bombs because they say they create effective mine fields for years after the fighting is done. And that's what they say has happened in southern Lebanon.

Take a look. They've already identified 250 cluster bomb strikes south of the Litani River, generally. Each one of these can be surrounded by dozens or even hundreds of smaller bombs that are related to this.

How does a cluster bomb work? It's essentially a canister that is launched or dropped on an area. It blows apart when it gets close to the ground and all these little grenades or bomblets are scattered around the area. Sometimes they're designed to blow up immediately and sometimes they wait until someone disturbs them and then they blow up.

Getting rid of these is time consuming and dangerous. Because even if you only have a couple of cluster bomb hits, for example, in a town, the area in which they may throw these bomblets is much bigger, and all of that has to be searched. The UN troops being who are being led right now by the French, 2,000 of them moving into southern Lebanon, have to secure the peace and begin this process. By early next year the Italians will be in charge. There should be about 15,000 troops then. But still, an enormous job getting rid of all the bombs protecting civilians and not becoming victims themselves in the process. Anderson?

COOPER: Tom, thanks. Of course, a lot of people are already becoming victims. People are getting hurt. Coming up, how the most innocent are becoming victims of cluster bombs. Little kids. We'll tell you about that.

We're also tracking Tropical Storm Ernesto, could be the first major hurricane of the season. Some new information should be released any moment from the National Weather Service. As soon as that happens we'll bring you up to date when 360 continues. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Some of the most tragic victims of the controversial cluster bombs that Israel dropped on southern Lebanon have been innocent little kids. CNN's Jim Clancy tells us one of the biggest challenges facing Lebanon right now is tracking and destroying unexploded bombs before more kids are killed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "I want my mother," 12-year-old Sikna Miri (ph) is the face of pain, a victim of an unexploded cluster bomblet. Her cousin, a 10-year-old Hassan, lies in a bed next to her. As a monitor tracks his heartbeat, Hassan remembers the gruesome details of almost being killed.

"It was her and my cousin and Sikna picked up the bomb. It was shaped like a ball. There was an explosion," he says. "My insides fell out. I held them and I started running and screaming."

For a time doctors weren't sure they would survive, but both have stabilized. They're the lucky ones. Outside the hospital room, a nurse tells us this is the new phase of the war.

(on camera): Inside the homes and gardens across south Lebanon, there are troops on the front lines in this phase of the war, they are the unexploded ordinance teams who search out and destroy the bomblets that are scattered in there tens of thousands across the country.

(voice-over): This is the only way to get rid of those bomblets. Before the blast some were taped to secure the triggers. But others had already armed themselves and couldn't be touched.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to check everywhere We step. OK, one is here.

CLANCY: Frederick Gras (ph) is with the Mine Advisory Group. They are working with the UN and the Lebanese. Time and time again Frederick will check to see if a cluster bomblet has armed or not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spray everywhere. We have to check the roof to see if there is something up. OK. It's good for here.

CLANCY: Anxious villagers south of Tyre have reported hundreds of sightings. They're welcoming Frederick and his team with Arabic coffee, but there isn't time. Cluster bombs have smashed through windows and now lie inside homes. Some of their deadly cargo may be underneath or anywhere up to a kilometer away.

"We keep warning a children," says an exasperated mother. "We keep telling them."

Her children are gathering up metal to sell. Including the shell o this cluster bomb. Cluster bomblets are meant to explode when they hit the ground, but there's always about a 10 percent failure rate. Because these are so old, they may have a failure rate of around 40 percent.

But those are cold, hard numbers, and this is real pain. Hassan and Sikla will be weeks in the hospital. For others, there will be no going home at all. Jim Clancy, CNN, Tyre, Lebanon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Where here in the United States the Gulf Coast has a new reason to be worried. Its name is Tropical Storm Ernesto. I think you're going to be hearing a lot about that in the days ahead. Could be a hurricane swirling in the Gulf of Mexico as early as next week. That's right, just in time for the Katrina anniversary. The latest on the storm, new information from the National Hurricane Center is coming up.

And we return to last year's devastation in the gulf and a story that is tough to hear. While many members of the New Orleans Police Department were heroes during the storm, a small number of others may have become murders. We'll explain, a 360 special investigation, "The Katrina Killings", that's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Seems certainly a lot of celebrities these days from Bono to Lindsay Lohan are focusing their attentions on the social and political problems in Africa. Lindsay Lohan? Come on. I don't believe that for a second.

Anyway, for talk show host Oprah Winfrey, helping the young women of Africa is more than just a passing fancy. Winfrey says it's the fulfillment of her destiny.

We get more on this exclusive report from CNN's Jeff Koinange in South Africa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Oprah's been coming to South Africa for the past several years determined to fulfill a promise she made to former President Nelson Mandela, or Mediva (ph) to most here.

OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: So I said to Mediva, I would like to build a school and I would like to commit $10 million. This was five years ago. And he said, "Yes?"

KOINANGE: And just like that the two broke ground for a girls' school just outside Johannesburg in what began as a $10 million project. It's since grown to $40 million and counting.

(on camera): Less than four years later, this is the result, the Oprah Winfrey Leadership Academy for Girls. Set on more than 50 acres of land it houses more than two dozen buildings. And Oprah says she was personally involved in the design and layout of most of them.

WINFREY: The dream for me was to create a school that I would most want to attend. So from the very beginning I sat down with architects and I said we have to have a library in the fireplace so it can be a place of learning as well as living for them. We have to have a theater because this is a school for leaders. And in order to be a leader you have to have a voice. You have to have a voice, oration. So the idea for the school came about by based on what I felt would be an honor for the African girls.

KOINANGE (voice-over): And all this for free, free uniforms, free books, free meals. Everything is free at Oprah's school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

KOINANGE: Oprah insisted on personally interviewing all the prospective students from schools around the country. Her requirements were simple. The girls had to have better-than-average grades and they had to come from underprivileged homes, much like she did.

WINFREY: I look in their faces, I see my own with girls who came from a background just like my own. I was raised by a grandmother, no running water, no electricity. But yet because of a sense of education and learning, I was able to become who I am, and I wanted to do the same for these girls. And so I think there is no better place than Africa because the sense of need, the sense of value for education and appreciation for it could not be greater.

KOINANGE: And in true Oprah fashion, she invited all the finalists to what was supposed to be an informal get together and dropped this bombshell.

WINFREY: I brought you all today to tell you that you will be a part of the very first class of the Oprah Winfrey Academy.

KOINANGE: And just like that, 150 young lives were transformed in an instant.

What does this mean, this moment right now?

WINFREY: It is a complete full circle moment in my life. I feel like it's what I was really born to do. That's what all of that fame and attention and money was for. It feels like the complete circle of my life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you, Oprah!

KOINANGE: Jeff Koinange, CNN, Johannesburg.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Man, how amazing to have the power to change lives like that. Incredible. The shot of the day is coming up. First, Tom Foreman joins us in Washington with the 360 "Bulletin." Tom?

FOREMAN: Anderson, it's been a rough Friday for air travel. In Houston investigators are trying to find out why a college student packed a half stick of dynamite in his luggage on a Continental Airlines flight from Argentina. The student's father told the Associated Press it was just a stupid mistake. It was one of seven airplane security problems today. Yes, count them, seven.

Miami, Florida, WFOR-TV has obtained FBI surveillance tape from the investigation of a group of men that allegedly shows them taking an oath to al Qaeda. Federal prosecutors say the video wasn't supposed to be made public. Prosecutors are asking a judge to find out if court orders to keep documents sealed have been violated.

Another video shows the suspects allegedly casing buildings. The men who were arrested in June are accused of plotting to blow up federal buildings in Miami and the Sears Tower in Chicago. They've all; pleaded "not guilty."

Micolette (ph) County, Minnesota, a deadly tornado, the victim, a man in his home. Twisters, heavy rain and hail also hit the Dakotas and Wisconsin. Obviously those aren't storms happening right there. In Dakotas - there we go -- woman was struck also by lightning in Wisconsin as she left a supermarket. Lightning also killed 12 cows there.

And tall people are smarter. There they are. That's why they earn more money. That's according to a study by two researchers at Princeton University who, no doubt, are quite tall themselves. They say those with a height advantage go for higher-paying jobs that require greater intelligence. Well, there's going to be some debate about that.

COOPER: Certainly is. I'm not sure I believe it at all.

FOREMAN: What are you, about 5'10"?

COOPER: Thanks, Greg, appreciate it. Yeah, scram.

What were you saying, Tom?

FOREMAN: You about 5'10".

COOPER: Yeah, but everyone else around me is much smaller. It's part of the requirement. Tom, stick around. The shot of the day right now. Meet Lola, the acrobatic cat. She walk on her front paws because of a deformity. Oh, come on now. That's got to be -- Is that for real? She lives at an animal shelter in Denver. Frankly, I don't know anything about her but it's the shot of the day. Isn't it kind of cool that no matter what, Lola perseveres. What do you think?

FOREMAN: It's amazing that we all persevere, even those who aren't as tall as others.

COOPER: All right, Tom. How tall are you, Tom? Tom, how tall are you?

FOREMAN: How tall am I?

COOPER: Yeah.

FOREMAN: Seven-foot-four

COOPER: Fine. You're never appearing on this program again.

Straight ahead, we are expecting a new update on Tropical Storm Ernesto. So we'll check back with Reynolds Wolf tracking the storm for us when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: One thing you don't like to see when you're looking at a hurricane is this. Look at the color enhancement. In the past couple of hours here as it moved out of the Bahamas and into the Gulf Stream. The water here, 87 degrees. That is the fuel, that is the jet fuel to the fire here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Jet fuel to the fire. That was CNN meteorologist Chad Myers getting it right on the mark one year ago today. That hurricane behind him, that was Katrina about to hit Florida on its way to the gulf. We don't need to tell you what happened next.

Tonight there are two tropical storms in the Atlantic, Debbie and now Ernesto in the Caribbean which formed earlier today. Seems to be headed for the same warm water that made Katrina so powerful. Joining me now with the latest from the CNN weather center, meteorologist Reynolds Wolf. Reynolds?

REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Absolutely. Debbie we're not too concerned with. Ernesto, well, it may be a problem.

We're taking a look at the storm. It has been just been pulsating with energy over the last couple of hours. It has strengthened since the last update, Andrew -- Anderson, rather. Winds are right at 45 miles per hour - I'm thinking of Hurricane Andrew, that's where it came from.

And as the storm is expected to continue its march off towards the west into the Caribbean, it's going to interact with warmer water, minimal shear environment. The winds expected to get to 60 miles per hour by the time we get to tomorrow evening.

So again, it's going to really strengthen very quickly. As we get to, say, 8:00 p.m. on Sunday, 70 mph maximum sustained winds south of Cuba then moving into the Gulf of Mexico.

And notice, Anderson, already by the time we get to Monday evening by 8:00 p.m., a hurricane, a Category 1 but it punches through the Gulf of Mexico, if this forecast path stays true, we're looking at winds of 90 miles an hour on Tuesday.

It continues its march towards the gulf coast by 8:00 p.m. Wednesday. We're looking at maximum sustained winds at 100 miles per hour.

My friend, that puts it up to a Category 2 storm. And thati s just how the path looks for now. The forecast path. Again, a lot of things could change. But I've got to tell you, this is not really the path we want to see. If it does move into the Gulf of Mexico, as you mentioned all evening, Anderson, that is not the spot where you want it to be.

Again, a lot of warm water, great conditions for this thing really to really just explode with power. That is the direction it is now seeming to move in if it follows this path. So we're going to have watch it for you throughout the weekend and next week, as long as it takes.

COOPER: Crazy right in conjunction with the anniversary. It is unbelievable.

WOLF: Uncanny.

COOPER: Reynolds, thanks for that.

For the latest on Tropical Storm Ernesto, of course, stay tuned to CNN, your hurricane headquarters. We're going to head back to New Orleans after the break for a special report, a special investigation.

We're returning to the chaos after Katrina, investigating allegations that certain members, just some of the New Orleans Police Department lost their moral bearings, engaged in criminal activity and some, sadly, even may have misused deadly force. It is being investigated. We'll have that investigation. Katrina killings, a 360 special investigation, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com