Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Taliban Comeback; Did Scooter Lie?; Streets on Fire; More Addictive Smokers?; Old Killings, New Charges; Mystery Deepens
Aired January 25, 2007 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: We begin this hour with Afghanistan and some very hard facts. Taliban forces are on the rise again. Al Qaeda training camps on the Pakistani side of the Afghan border are said to be full.
One hundred thirty-nine suicide attacks took place in Afghanistan last year, compared to 21 the year before. The Afghan government has not cracked down on the opium trade that sustains the insurgency.
The Bush administration now wants to pump billions more into Afghanistan and is keeping thousands of troops there longer.
In short, the war may have been forgotten by some, but it is certainly not over.
Joining me now for some perspective is CNN Terrorism Analyst Peter Bergen.
Peter, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, Lt. General Eikenberry, said that attacks in December by the Taliban have tripled.
How is it possible that things have gotten so bad?
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, it's a complex answer to that. I mean, part of it is safe haven in Pakistan for the Taliban leadership. Some of it is evaporating optimism on the part of the Afghan people that the government can really protect them.
The drug trade plays a role in this. It's the biggest part of the economy in Afghanistan, the Taliban are clearly benefiting from it.
You know, in the south and the east, the Taliban retain some popularity, but most Afghans, you know, still really reject the Taliban and its ideology, and they had a pretty good taste of it for several years. So it's not like they're going to take over the country any time soon.
They used to be a nuisance. Now they're a tactical threat, but I don't think they're a strategic threat, although that could change.
COOPER: And the violence is likely to increase as the spring come and snows melt, correct?
BERGEN: Yes. And I mean, what's interesting about what you said about General Eikenberry's assessment that the violence has gone up three times in December is that's very unusual historically.
You know, Afghanistan has a pretty brutal winter and usually everybody just goes home and doesn't fight. So the fact that it's actually -- the fighting is continuing is kind of unusual.
2007 is going to be a very bloody year by all accounts and is something of a make or break year, in my opinion, for the Taliban on one side, the Afghan government on the other side.
If the Taliban can show that they can really come back, having taken a pretty big beating in the summer of 2006, losing thousands of people in the south, that would demonstrate that they have some real staying power.
COOPER: The U.S. and NATO are both looking to beef up troops. Is more troops the answer? Is that enough?
BERGEN: Well, I think it's an answer. But, you know, when we were there in the summer -- in September of 2006, Anderson, I don't think there was a single U.S. military commander that we spoke to who didn't say, you know, the solution has got to be political. The military component is really only one part of this.
And so what is that political solution? It's an attempt to bring in the Pashtuns who are not the radical Taliban. Perhaps make them have a, perhaps, bigger role in parliament.
It's certainly more reconstruction because as General Eikenberry would say, the Afghan -- the U.S. military commander there, when the roads went out, that's where the Taliban begins.
There's a need for -- electricity in Kabul is the same where it was five years ago. Four or five hours a day, if you're lucky in an upper-class neighborhood. And in lots of areas it still doesn't exist.
So, there is a need for a really massive reconstruction effort. I think tied also into work -- sort of a W.A.P. program, similar that we had in the United States in the '30s, where you put a lot of people -- there's a huge unemployment program, you know -- I'm not just talking about throwing monies at the problem because -- but there are certain projects, certain roads, certain dams which would make a big difference.
COOPER: And to what extent are al Qaeda and the Taliban working together?
I want to show the audience at home this video we have obtained from the Intel Center, which is a terrorism analysis center. It basically shows Taliban fighters training in Waziristan in Pakistan shooting, you know, shoulder-fired missiles, mortars, building IEDs in some cases, even at one point appear to be taking over a Pakistani army camp.
What does it tell us about their strength and how do they work with al Qaeda? BERGEN: Well, what's interesting, you see on this video on the left, it says Ummat in the top left corner. Now, this is Taliban propaganda arm. And they'll basically modeling themselves when al Qaeda's propaganda arm, al-Sahab (ph).
So not only are they doing these kinds of operations, attacking Pakistani military installations, training in Waziristan, as you indicated, but they're also documenting these activities to show that they are, you know, in very much the same manner that al Qaeda does. And they're putting out a lot more of these videotapes.
Just as al Qaeda's had a kind of record year in terms of its videotape production, this Taliban group, Ummat is also putting out a lot of propaganda stuff and showing their operations, showing their training and showing that they are, you know, sort of back in business.
COOPER: And we'll be watching in the spring when the snows melt. We'll see what happens.
Peter, thanks very much. Peter Bergen.
Peter and I spent time in Afghanistan last September, as he mentioned, with members of the Army's 10th Mountain Division. Brave men who have done heroic work along the Afghan/Pakistan border.
Recently, however, their tour of duty was extended. Some of the men were actually on their way home. Some had actually gotten home. When the order came, they had to turn around and go back home. I learned about this when one of their dads sent me an email.
He wrote, "These guys are burned out. I feel the President and the Pentagon brass have broken a promise to these fine soldiers and have shown callous disregard for their lives and their families."
He says one of the platoons of the unit already have 30 purple hearts. He says he learned from his own son eight months ago that they needed more U.S. troops in Afghanistan.
He goes on to write, "If a lowly Lieutenant knows this," he writes, "how come our generals and political leaders don't? To take these guys who are already home and send them back is ridiculous."
This is one of many e-mails that we've received in the last 24 hours.
I got to know a lot of these troops that he's talking about back in September at a fire base not far from the border with Pakistan. Even then, signs of the trouble that they're facing today could be seen almost anywhere you turn.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): Captain Jason Dye has served in Iraq, but says his mission in Afghanistan is far more dangerous.
CAPTAIN JASON DYE, 10TH MOUNTAIN DIVISION: Even before I came here, I was like, thank God I'm going to Afghanistan, it's going to be safer than Iraq. And now that I've gotten here, I can say for sure, it is exactly the opposite of what I thought. It is dangerous here. There's a lot of stuff going on.
COOPER: Dye commands Bravo Company, 3rd Brigade of the 10th Mountain Division. His base is dangerously close to the Pakistan border.
DYE: This is one of the main infiltration routes for the enemy. They've begun to do a lot more rocket attacks. We used to get a rocket attack maybe once a week. Now it's every other day, every couple of days, every day. And they've resorted to that and IEDs and mines.
COOPER: Captain Dye doesn't know for sure, but he believes Taliban militants are learning how to make IEDs from foreign fighters trained in Iraq.
DYE: There's a trainer coming out here telling them how to do stuff. That's what my intelligence tells me.
COOPER: To stop jihadists and the Taliban from crossing into Afghanistan, Captain Dye and his men routinely patrol the rugged mountains along the border.
(On camera): The problem for the soldiers of the 10th Mountain Division who patrol this area is that this border is really a border in name only. It's incredibly porous. People can move back and forth.
Intelligence sources we've talked to are concerned that now that the Pakistan government has signed a cease-fire deal with Taliban militants that those cross border incursions are only going to increase.
(Voice-over): The soldiers fire mortars to clear areas they've been attacked from in the past.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before they maybe had 30 guys in this whole area. Now I'm estimating they probably got about 250.
COOPER: The terrain is extremely difficult. The slopes, steep; the environment, treacherous.
(On camera): What's so strange when you're on patrol is even if the soldiers don't make contact with the enemy, even if you don't see any enemy fighters, you know that they were here. On a lot of the trees you find these, these cross marks or horizontal slashes. They're reference points, helping enemy fighters figure out where to fire rockets that will hit the forward operating base.
(Voice-over): The markings are everywhere. Further up the mountain, the unit checks out a destroyed bunker position. (On camera): About two weeks ago U.S. helicopters passing over this mountain noticed this bunker. There were fighters inside. They fired rockets, later called in an air strike. It's been destroyed now. But what remains, you can see is pretty well built. These large stones were used to create like a supporting wall. Over here there's some heavy timbers which were probably used to build the roof of the bunker.
Soldiers say as many as 10 or 15 fighters could have used this bunker at any one time.
(Voice-over): From the bunkers' firing position, there is a direct line of sight to Captain Dye's base, but there's no sign enemy fighters have been here recently.
On the way back down, however, the soldiers get some troubling news.
(On camera): The unit has just received some intelligence. And we can't tell you how they received it, but it indicates that there may be fighters in this area. Could mean an ambush, could be just talk, it could be nothing at all. It just means that the soldiers have to be extra vigilant as they head back down the mountain.
(Voice-over): What do you look for?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Movement, personnel. Anybody gathering in a spot that looks odd. People trying to hide in the tree line, that sort of thing. Spotters. Usually the locals don't go up into these hills. If you see someone sitting on them, that's a spotter.
COOPER: On this patrol, however, there are no spotters, no ambush after all. Captain Dye and his men head safely back to base. One mission down, countless more to go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I have a family. All of these guys have families. We're out here fighting so that we don't have to do this at home, so that our families can stay safe and that makes you feel good. It makes you feel like you're doing something.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (on camera): And that unit has had their tour extended. They will be there at least another four months.
A mission more dangerous than ever. Five years in. Just ahead on 360, another battle zone. New violence in Beirut, where political divisions turn deadly on a university campus.
Plus, shocking new research on nicotine in cigarettes.
Young smokers who blame themselves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN SMITH, SMOKER: I don't want to sound like I'm cold or anything, but you're a doing it to yourself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: But what about this? New research shows nicotine levels in cigarettes are rising. Is that making it harder to quit smoking? We're keeping them honest.
Plus, on day three of Lewis "Scooter" Libby's perjury trial, a rare look inside Dick Cheney's inner circle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you're seeing is this -- for the first time, some real disarray at the senior levels of the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: What the witness said and how it hurt Libby's case, next on 360.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: First betrayed, then sacrificed by the White House. That, in essence, is the defense of Lewis "Scooter" Libby.
Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff is on trial for perjury, accused of lying about who leaked the name of a CIA operative.
Libby says he's being made the fall guy. But today, jurors heard a different story from a high-powered source.
CNN's Kelli Arena has details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cathie Martin's testimony offered rare insight into the inner workings of the vice president's office. And the personal efforts by the vice president himself to control information.
SCOTT REED, GOP POLITICAL CONSULTANT: What you're seeing is this -- for the first time some real disarray at the senior levels of the White House.
ARENA: Martin, who was Vice President Cheney's communications chief, suggested that her boss and his Chief of Staff "Scooter" Libby were obsessed back in 2003 with gathering information about Joe Wilson, a Bush critic.
At the time, Wilson was challenging the Bush administration's justification for the war in Iraq, based on information he uncovered during a trip to Africa.
REED: They obviously didn't want to let any little spark catch you in the fire, and they weren't going to let one of these frontal attacks go unanswered.
ARENA: Wilson claimed that he was sent on his mission by the vice president. But Martin described how Cheney tried to distance himself from Wilson, how the vice president personally dictated talking points for dealing with the press.
Her notes, in evidence, telling her to say, quote, "he did not travel at my request. Don't know him."
She testified, Libby told her to actually call the CIA to get names of reporters working on stories about Wilson so that the vice president could direct a spin operation with Libby as the front man.
TIMOTHY HEAPHY, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: The intrigue at the White House is playing out in the course of this because it's generally so secret.
ARENA: Martin's story flies in the face of Libby's defense, which claims that he was caught up in so many other issues, he didn't pay much attention to Wilson.
HEAPHY: The bigger deal this was inside the White House, the less credible his explanation of missed recollection becomes.
ARENA: Libby is charged with lying about how and when he found out that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, worked at the CIA. Martin testified, she told him in June of 2003. But Libby claims he didn't find out until a month later.
HEAPHY: This is a case about deception. This is a case about lies.
ARENA: It's also a case that has most of Washington wondering what other secrets are about to be exposed.
Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, certainly a lot of folks in Washington are watching the case closely. So are my next two guests, CNN's Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin and "Court TV's" Washington Correspondent Savannah Guthrie, who was in the courtroom.
Jeff, let me start with you. This was the prosecutor's fourth witness. How are they doing so far in trying to prove their case?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think they're doing very well, because it's sort of confusing the facts about this case. And what the prosecution is doing in saying, look, this is very simple. "Scooter" Libby said he learned that Valerie Wilson was a CIA agent from Tim Russert in a conversation.
COOPER: That's what he testified to?
TOOBIN: That's what he testified to under oath. What the prosecution is doing to begin the case is calling a series of his colleagues at the White House to say, I told "Scooter" Libby that she worked for the CIA. And that's -- you know, it's going to be tougher.
COOPER: Not only did I tell "Scooter" Libby, but I told "Scooter" Libby before the date that he says he learned it.
TOOBIN: That's right. And it was a big deal that this isn't just -- part of the defense is, look, this guy was dealing with all sorts of things. But you saw in that courtroom how obsessed this administration was with the weapons of mass destruction issue. Where were they? Why weren't they found? And that's what "Scooter" Libby was spending his time on. That's why, the prosecution argues, he should remember this.
COOPER: And Savannah, what is his defense essentially?
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, "COURT TV" WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a whole bunch of different things he's trying to argue. One of them is that he was such a busy guy, focused on much more important weighty national security issues, issues of life and death, that this whole Valerie Wilson thing was a blip on the radar. And that even to the extent they were focused on Joe Wilson -- and this witness today, her testimony made that abundantly clear that the vice president's office was very focused on it.
They were focused on rebutting Joe Wilson on the merits of what he said. The whole story about Valerie Wilson was not something that was coming up with Vice President Cheney.
Cathie Martin, who really gave that inside look into the vice president's office at a time when they were in damage control mode, did not say that Cheney was directing Libby to leak Valerie Wilson's name out there to try to slime Joe Wilson by suggesting that it was his wife who made this trip happen and not because he was actually a legitimate person who could go and investigate these things for the CIA.
COOPER: So from what I'm hearing from Savannah, Jeffrey, and what you had said, it seems like the memory of "Scooter" Libby is very much important to this case. Is he going to have to testify?
TOOBIN: Very hard to know.
COOPER: Because the judge indicated if they're building a case on memory, he may have to.
TOOBIN: Well, no defendant has to testify. But it certainly would be a lot more persuasive to a jury for a guy to say, look, I forgot. So sue me. You know, it is not a crime to testify mistakenly. The only crime is if you intentionally lie. And he may be the best representative of what he knew and what he didn't know.
The problem is, once you take the stand, the prosecutor would get to -- Patrick Fitzgerald will get to say, well, what about this conversation, what about that conversation? You don't remember that? And the jury will have now seen four or five or six or seven people who say they discussed this with him.
COOPER: Also, Savannah, the defense seems to be saying that he's being scapegoated by this administration. What does that matter, though, in terms of what the actual issue is that he's being charged with?
GUTHRIE: I don't think it does. I have to tell you, I was scratching my head when the defense attorney mentioned that in opening statements. I don't think it's relevant to any issue in the legal case. But it does sort of fuzz the waters up a little bit.
Someone called the defense attorney a human fog machine. I mean, by the end of his more than two-hour opening statement, it was hard to remember what this case was about.
And I do think that they want to bring that in about Karl Rove, about saying Libby was scapegoated, was going to be sacrificed to save Karl Rove. Because at a minimum, it distances Libby from this White House and it makes Libby look like a victim and maybe that's the atmosphere that the defense attorneys are trying to create inside that courtroom.
TOOBIN: I think Savannah is right in the sense that the fog is the point. The more complicated this story is -- and Ted Wells' opening statement was very complicated and all over the map, to the extent the jury says, you know, this whole thing was a big mess, no wonder he didn't remember exactly what was going on. That helps Libby.
COOPER: Interesting.
Jeff Toobin, Savannah Guthrie, thanks very much. We'll keep following it.
GUTHRIE: Sure.
COOPER: The trial of "Scooter" Libby is the culmination of an investigation lasting more than two years. Here's the data on that.
In July 2003 Robert Novak's column named Valerie Plame as a CIA officer. Two months later, the Justice Department launched a full criminal investigation into the leak. In July 2005, "New York Times" Reporter Judith Miller went to jail to protect the identity of the person who leaked Plame's identity to her. In September, Miller was released from jail after receiving a call from "Scooter" Libby. One month later, Libby was indicted and resigned from his position at the White House.
Before we go to break, a quick update on our longevity story from earlier tonight. Our interview with Dan Buettner about where people live longer and better and what their secrets are and how you can test how long you'll live, perhaps. We're getting a ton of people e- mailing us for Dan's Web site. Let's just be clear, it's www.bluezones.com. Bluezones.com. One word, bluezones. This one got you, though. So many people are flooding the site, it may be tough to get in for a while, but keep trying.
Ahead on 360, why it might be harder to quit smoking today than ever before. It has nothing to do with will power, it's how much nicotine they're packing in those things.
Plus, Beirut on the brink. Deadly clashes raging for hours at a university. How the violence started, what it took to stop it, and where it all goes next, on 360.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: You are looking at a live picture right now of Beirut, the curfew just being lifted. It is quiet now, a very different image from the violence we saw earlier, part and parcel of a democracy struggling in the Middle East with Lebanon's prime minister in a fight for his political life.
The fighting in the streets, the militant group Hezbollah is pushing for his resignation, organizing huge street protests and a massive strike that brought Beirut to a standstill this week.
Today, the U.S. pledged to more than triple its economic aid to Lebanon. Tensions in the battered capital turned deadly.
CNN's Nic Robertson reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Armed with rocks and intent on a fight, hundreds of ferocious and angry young men converged on Beirut's Arab university.
The violence started late in the afternoon, clashes inside the campus between students, loyal to Lebanon's government, and anti- government Hezbollah supporters.
As the situation escalated, vehicles were set on fire. Anyone who could scrambled to save them. Dense black smoke billowed up from the university.
Lebanese army soldiers on foot and in armored personnel carriers pushed forward towards the rock throwers. From the tops of vehicles in the midst of the chaos, appealing for calm.
(On camera): Right now the army is holding back here. The violence is (UNINTELLIGIBLE) where the students -- there's a lot of gunfire going on. At the moment, the army holding back measuring what they should do.
(Voice-over): At one point, the crowd of angry young pro- government men set fire to a Hezbollah flag as inflammatory an insult as any here can be.
From within the battle zone, both soldiers and civilians stretch it out as the confrontation continue to flare. At least three people killed and more that 150 injured. Volley after volley of gunfire blasted into the air by soldiers in an effort to calm and separate the rock-throwing crowds.
In nearby side streets and on highways, the Lebanese army flooded the area with troops to contain the violence close to its epicenter at the university. Not long after, they called a curfew from 8:30 in the evening until 6:00 in the morning.
FUAD SINIORA, LEBANESE PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I would appeal to all Lebanese to stay away from any hot spot and renounce the temptation to fan the flames of tension and conflict.
ROBERTSON: And on Hezbollah's own TV channel, its leader Hassan Nasrallah used the strongest language possible, calling for an end to violence, telling supporters to calm down.
After several hours of clashes, the army was able to bring enough calm to get a fire truck into the university. And the burning vehicles belching black smoke, signaling chaos across the city extinguished.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Very dramatic images.
Nic joins us live.
Now, Nic, the curfew just lifted. Any updates?
ROBERTSON (on camera): Traffic coming back out on the streets. We could hear the rumble of it from here. See the traffic on the highway. It's been absolutely silent all night as people seem to observe the curfew.
It has had an effect. The concern obviously is now going forward, what happens next? What little spark could trigger something like this violence again -- Anderson.
COOPER: How strong is Hezbollah? I mean, at last, a lot of people probably paid attention to them was during their battle against Israel. Have they rearmed? Have they regrouped?
ROBERTSON: They're not showing their arms and not using their weapons on the streets. Their protesters have been coming out with rocks, coming out with heavy wooden sticks, lighting fires, barricades, but not using weapons. It doesn't look like a battlefield in that sense. Indeed, it's some of the old sectarian militias here that have been coming out with their weapons.
But when the violence was triggered at the university, van loads of young Shia men from the Hezbollah community were bussed in very quickly, sort of bringing their young men right into that conflict zone as quickly as possible.
COOPER: Troubling. Nic Robertson, thanks for the live report.
Just ahead on 360, a cold case from the deep south heats up. The suspect got off 40 years ago. Back in court today.
Plus, new research on nicotine levels in cigarettes. It is not good news.
Young smokers who blame themselves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN SMITH, SMOKER: I don't want to sound like I'm cold or anything, but you're doing it to yourself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, what about this? New research shows nicotine levels in cigarettes are rising. Is that making it harder to quit smoking? We're keeping them honest.
Plus, a small town in disbelief.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's the big talk of the town and everybody is devastated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: What police found in the ashes of a terrible fire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody likes to think that a crime like this can occur in their own backyard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Who could have killed this family of five and why? Ahead on 360.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, if you think it's harder to quit smoking now than it was a few years ago, you may be right. A new Harvard study found that the amount of nicotine in cigarettes rose 11 percent in just seven years. The researchers say that cigarette companies use tobacco richer in nicotine to make their more addictive.
At least one big company is denying the charge. The question is, who is telling the truth?
CNN's Drew Griffin tonight, keeping them honest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There is dispute over how much and what may or may not be causing it, but ask smokers like these coachmen in New Orleans if they would be surprised to learn tobacco companies have been boosting nicotine to make it harder for them to quit. The answer, they say, no surprise at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not at all. Not at all. Not at all.
GRIFFIN: Surprise maybe to some, not to others.
A new Harvard study says either way, it is a fact. The study found from 1998 to 2005, there's been an 11 percent increase in the amount of nicotine in a cigarette's smoke.
DR. GREG CONNOLLY, HARVARD SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: And that was significant.
GRIFFIN: And Dr. Greg Connolly says that doesn't matter what you smoke. Menthol, light, regular or mild, nicotine levels have increased 11 percent since '98.
CONNOLLY: Does that mean that more nicotine is getting into the bloodstream of a consumer, 11 percent more? We don't know that.
GRIFFIN: What do the tobacco companies say?
Philip Morris, the maker of Marlboro, the world's biggest selling cigarette, sent a statement, saying the Harvard study "raises legitimate public and scientific concerns." But the company says it did not change "the design of our cigarettes with the intention to increase nicotine yields."
(On camera): But while we're keeping the cigarette companies honest, let's be honest with ourselves. For generations now Americans have been warned, have been told, have been taught that cigarettes are bad, cigarettes cause cancer.
(Voice-over): And yet right here in Harvard Square, supposedly home to some of the best and brightest of our youth, we found young people smoking.
JOHN SMITH, SMOKER: Well, I know the warnings are there. I know the problems. My dad has emphysema.
GRIFFIN: Take John Smith. He says his dad is sick from smoking, yet he smokes. Learned all about the dangers of smoking in high school, yet he smokes. He's a student, yet he shells out nearly $5 a pack to buy a product that warns him he'll get sick, yet he smokes.
SMITH: I don't want to sound like I'm cold or anything, but you're doing it to yourself.
GRIFFIN: This 18-year-old says he started at 14.
(On camera): You've known that your whole life, right? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So does everybody, though.
GRIFFIN: Yeah. So do you blame the tobacco companies or do you blame yourself?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Definitely myself.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): They admit they are now addicted. They also say they started smoking because smoking was then and is now legal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not smoking crack.
GRIFFIN: It should be illegal, correct?
CONNOLLY: If you look at consumer attitude polls, I would think the majority of Americans agree with you on that. We tried banning alcohol in the '20s and it just didn't work.
GRIFFIN: What the Harvard School of Public Health wants to do instead of making cigarettes illegal and creating a black market is to regulate the product into oblivion.
If a government agency regulated what's in cigarettes, Dr. Connolly says that agency could force tobacco companies to remove addictive nicotine, not increase it.
You might be surprised, even Philip Morris said it supports a bill that would allow cigarettes to be regulated by the Food and Drug Administration.
Until then, the best advice from this New Orleans coachman who began when he was just 11 is to never start in the first place.
Do you wish you didn't?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every day, worst doggone habit I could have ever started.
GRIFFIN: And now admits he just can't stop.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Drew, you know, certainly smokers know or should know the danger to smoking by now, but what about tobacco companies? They get to spike the nicotine levels, potentially make them more addictive and get away with it?
GRIFFIN (on camera): Yes. That is the surprising thing about this. You know, we regulate everything about smoking, Anderson. We regulate, you know, the kids can't buy it, you can't advertise it. You can't put it on billboards, we can't use cartoons in advertisement. You can't smoke at CNN or parks or anywhere else. But what's actually in these sticks is unregulated.
So you get a study like this that says, whoa, tobacco companies are spiking nicotine. So what? There's nothing you can do to really stop it. And that's the heart of the issue here.
COOPER: And that's what it's all about, trying to get at what's inside the cigarette?
GRIFFIN: That's absolutely right. What they think is, instead of banning them and creating a black market or some kind of prohibition era, gangster problem we had with alcohol, regulate what's in the cigarette. Dumb down the cigarette. Take the nicotine out. Take sweet smelling scents out of the cigarette. They want to make it like -- this is what they say, Anderson. They want to make it like lard. You know, everybody used to cook with lard. Now nobody uses lard. It's just a disgusting product nobody wants to use. That's what they want to use regulation for. To take all the elements that make it addictive, that make it nice, that make it appealing to people, just take it out.
COOPER: All right. We'll see.
Drew, thanks. Drew griffin reporting.
Just ahead, a horrible racial crime that went unpunished for more than 40 years. Now a suspect is in court.
Plus, a small quiet town consumed by a murder mystery. A family of five killed while sleeping. Their house set on fire. Did they know their attacker, however? Next on 360.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: In a federal courtroom in Mississippi today, the past literally walked through the door and brought with it the ugly history of the deep south.
A murder suspect, arrested more than 40 years ago and then let go, was back in court for the very same crime, the gruesome killing of two black teenagers in 1964.
The case sat cold for all those years, but recently heated up when one of the victim's brothers vowed to find justice for both the dead teens.
With that story, here's CNN's Rusty Dornin.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For 43 years, this was the only marker of the death of 19-year-old Charles Moore, a misspelled tombstone in the outer reaches of the local cemetery.
Then two years ago, his brother Thomas decided that was it.
THOMAS MOORE, BROTHER OF CHARLES EDDIE MOORE: I promised him in 2005 at his grave in Franklin County, that I will fight until I die.
DORNIN: So Thomas Moore went home to Meadville, Mississippi, with a CBC documentary filmmaker and Donna Ladd, a reporter from the "Jackson Free Press."
She took us to where it all began on Main Street.
DONNA LADD, REPORTER, "JACKSON FREE PRESS": This spot is where they were hitchhiking.
DORNIN: According to FBI informants in documents dating from 1964, the African-American teens were picked up by James Seale and Charles Edwards, reputed members of the Ku Klux Klan. The documents allege Seale and Edwards took the young men here, to the Homochitto National Forest.
LADD: They took them out of the car, they tied them to a tree, and kind of around their waist, and then they took these long skinny sticks that we call bean sticks and just started beating them.
DORNIN: When Thomas Moore went with CBC Filmmaker David Ridgen to this spot, the impassioned brother acted out the deed.
The two young men are believed to have been alive when they were reportedly then tied to an engine block and thrown into the old Mississippi River.
Edwards and Seale were arrested in 1964, charged with kidnapping and murder. The FBI turned the case over to local authorities.
But a justice of peace said witnesses refused to testify, and the charges against Seale and Edwards were dropped. There just wasn't enough evidence, they said.
When Thomas Moore vowed justice for his brother, James Seale was thought to have died years earlier. Then to his utter shock, Moore found out otherwise.
MOORE: They directed us to where he lived. That changed our mission.
DORNIN: Seale lived here in an RV on his brother's property.
MOORE: I'm calling for James Seale.
DORNIN: Moore did everything, but walk up to Seale's door. He even planted signs outside the property.
In July 2005, the U.S. attorney's office agreed to take a fresh look at the case. Then 19 months later, just yesterday, James Seal was arrested.
Seal has consistently denied involvement in the murders. Almost exactly 42 years after charges against him were dropped, today James Seal was walked into federal court under heavy guard, arraigned on kidnapping and conspiracy charges in the deaths of Charles Moore and Henry Dee.
Rusty Dornin, CNN, Meadville, Mississippi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, it's been an overwhelming week for Thomas Moore and also for filmmaker David Ridgen. I talked to both men earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Thomas, when you heard that an arrest had finally after all these years had been made, did you think this day would come? I mean, you've been trying for a long time to get this case reopened.
MOORE: No, I never did think that we would get to this point, no.
COOPER: David, you started making a documentary. What drew you to this story?
DAVID RIDGEN, CBC DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: Essentially, the press turned away from the story in '64. The Thomas -- Charles Moore and Henry Dee story. And I just thought that it needed to be readdressed.
COOPER: Thomas, what do you now know happened to your brother and to Mr. Dee? They were hitchhiking, correct?
MOORE: Yes, they was hitchhiking, which was a common thing for us to do in that part of the country. On the 2nd of May, 1964, they was abducted and taken deep into the Homochitto National Forest in Franklin County, held at gunpoint, beaten with switches and bean sticks until they was unconscious. Other clansmen came in and helped prepare the bodies, put the duct tape over their mouths and threw them in the back of a car.
And they were concerned that the blood from these two African- Americans would be in the car. And they drove over two hours across the river into Louisiana to an island by the name of Davis Island, prepared the bodies of Charles Moore and Henry Dee by tying a jeep block engine to Charles Moore's body and railroad metal ties to Henry Dee and dumped them in the Mississippi River, still alive.
COOPER: Authorities reopened this case. The FBI reopened this case in 2000, and I've read that James Seale's son was telling people, well, my dad is dead, he's died. But you actually went down to Mississippi in 2005 and you saw him. What happened?
MOORE: I went to the entrance to where he lived, and I yelled out to him, identified who I was, and yelled out to him who I were and I want to talk to him. Come out and talk to me like a man. And of course, he didn't.
COOPER: What would you have said to him?
MOORE: I want to ask him why did he do that, why did he take the life of two young African-Americans, deny them the right to make mistakes, deny them the rights to have family and deny me the right to have a brother, because he was my oldest brother.
COOPER: Do you believe you're finally going to get justice? MOORE: Yes, I do.
COOPER: You know, David, there are other civil rights cases out there from that era that the cases haven't been brought to justice, most notably probably Emmett Till's case. Do you think this gives hope to families involved in those cases that they might get solved?
RIDGEN: Absolutely, but it takes a lot of will and a lot of pushing. But it doesn't take too many people to do it. It was only Thomas and I. I mean, we talk about a crew following Thomas, but it was really just Thomas and I the whole time. And a little bit of will power and I think it can happen. You just got to push the right people at the right time.
COOPER: Well, David Ridgen and Thomas Moore, gentlemen, I appreciate you being on. And Thomas, our best to your family. And I hope you get the justice you've been seeking for so long.
MOORE: Thank you, sir.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, from a 43-year-old murder to a family massacred. Violence comes to a peaceful village. Five lives taken and the way of life may never be the same, next on 360.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, scenic beauty and small town charm, that's what Fishkill, New York, is known for. That is, until last week. In a community where violent crime is rare, murder arrived in the night and in numbers.
CNN's Randi Kaye reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the Morey family, it was a typical Thursday. The kids went to school. The family was home together in the evening. But then in the middle of the night came the call to the fire department.
MAJOR WILLIAM CAREY, NEW YORK STATE POLICE: I believe the house was set on fire to cover the crime that occurred inside the house.
KAYE: Firefighters arrived at 3:20 a.m. Friday. Flames were shooting through the roof. It took hours to put the fire out and when they did, they were shocked by what they found inside. A family of five dead. But it wasn't the fire that killed them.
LINDA LAMOTHE, FISHKIL RESIDENT: You don't think something like this would happen in a small little town like this.
KAYE: Police say someone murdered the Morey family while they slept. Manuel Morey and his wife, Tina, were both shot. Their boys -- Manuel, 13 and Adam, 10 -- were stabbed to death. And Ryan, just 6, died from a blow to the head.
(On camera): Who could the killer be? What kind of person would wipe out an entire family, including three innocent children? Police have numerous leads, but no real suspects. They say there was no sign of forced entry, so the Moreys may actually have known their attacker, maybe even let that person inside.
(Voice-over): Complicating matters, the fire destroyed forensic evidence police could have used to solve this mystery. The family's car was also set on fire and discovered oddly about a mile away.
(On camera): What do we know about the husband in this case? He was a fence builder. Is there anything else that we should know about him or what he might or might not have been involved with?
CAREY: You know, I'm willing to say that Manuel was a drug user, a low-level drug dealer. He definitely associated with a criminal element and that's one of the things that we're certainly looking into.
KAYE: Police say Mr. Morey was using and dealing crack cocaine.
This woman, a friend of Mrs. Morey's, says she was planning to take the kids and leave her husband.
PEGGY GERSCH, FRIEND OF TINA MOREY: She lived for her children like any normal mother. She worried about her children. Her kids were her number one priority.
KAYE (voice-over): The couple had been renting this home about 60 miles northwest of New York City for the last year.
(On camera): Are people concerned that this might not have been a target, this could have been a random act?
GERSCH: some of them. Some of them are concerned. And some of them are even talking about moving because they don't know if there is a murderer in the area.
KAYE (voice-over): There's now a memorial in the family's front yard.
Lisa Condon didn't know the Moreys, but felt compelled to come.
LISA CONDON, FISHKILL RESIDENT: I just can't get over it. I can't wake up in the morning without thinking about it or going to bed at night, thinking about it. It makes you want to just hug your children more every day. It's terrible. It really is.
KAYE: No matter how long it takes to solve this crime, it will take even longer for this community to get past it.
Randi Kaye, CNN, Fishkill, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: If you have any information on the Fishkill murders, call 1-800-CRIME-TV. That's 1-800-CRIME-TV.
Straight ahead, a highway episode that goes way beyond a tough commute. Not a traffic jam, much worse. Details when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Yes, it's our new favorite video from Japan. We asked what this is. We didn't really know. Our viewers, quick as they are, have answered. We'll have the answer for that in a moment.
But first, Gary Tuchman joins us with a 360 bulletin -- Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello again, Anderson.
Tough words today from Iraq's prime minister. His message, there will be no safe place for terrorists. That's a quote. Yet hours later, terrorism, more of it. A suicide bombing in a Shiite neighborhood in Baghdad. At least 26 people were killed. In addition, two rockets slammed into the heavily fortified green zone not far from the U.S. embassy.
Near Erie, Pennsylvania, 50-vehicle pileup in whiteout conditions on Interstate 90. At least one person was killed and several others injured. A 10-mile stretch of the highway was shut down for several hours so crews could clear the scene.
And in business news, 2006 was a brutal year for Ford. Old Henry would not be pleased. The auto company lost a staggering $12.7 billion, its worst year ever. Ford expects to bleed cash for a couple more years -- Anderson.
COOPER: Gary, thanks very much.
Before we go, an update on our shot of the day we showed you earlier. We know this is wacky programming from Asia with pandas and a laugh track. We pulled it off the net, off the YouTube. But frankly, we didn't know much else about it. We asked for your, help and boy, did we get a lot of e-mails from Japan, from all over the world.
Jason from New York mailed with a tip. He says it's from a Japanese variety show that has celebrities sharing a home with exotic animals. Jason says the animals are from the local zoo, is where they go.
Another e-mail, this one from Sherelle (ph) in Japan, who says the show is called "Shimora's Zoo." So now we know.
Nothing really beats a panda in a little stroller thing, huh? There you go. All right.
That's just natural. It's the way it should be.
Tomorrow, on "AMERICAN MORNING," a small Georgia town was thriving, largely due to its immigrant workforce. That is, until federal agents moved in. Take a look. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I say, well, why are you in my house? You know, I was very scared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did they say? They said we're looking for illegals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The question many want answered, how far should the government go to crack down on illegal immigrants and at what cost. See what happened in this case, tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING," beginning at 6:00 a.m. with the O'Brien twins.
And a reminder -- no, they're not really twins. A reminder -- help us keep them honest. If there is a wrong that needs to be made right in your community, tell us about it, cnn.com/360.
"LARRY KING" is next with an inside look at "American idol."
See you later.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com
