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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Terrorist Lawmaker in Iraq?; Sexual Abuse Charges Filed Against Alleged Missouri Kidnapper; Jeffrey Dahmer-Adam Walsh Connection?
Aired February 05, 2007 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone.
If it's true, an extraordinary new development in one child's murder and two very public lives: evidence that some believe connects Jeffrey Dahmer, America's most notorious killer, with Adam Walsh, the murdered son of John Walsh, host of "America's Most Wanted." That story is coming up tonight.
First, though, a CNN exclusive: a rude awakening for Americans who fought and died to establish democracy in Iraq. It turns out that, when some Iraqis went to the polls, whether they knew it or not, they elected a terrorist to parliament, a man with the blood of Americans on his hands.
CNN's Michael Ware broke the story, joins us now with the exclusive from Baghdad -- Michael.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson.
After an extensive four-month investigation, CNN has learned that this man, Jamal Jafar Mohammed, an elected member of Iraq's parliament, representing southern Babil Province, was involved in the 1993 car bombings of the American and French embassies.
Indeed, according to U.S. military intelligence, he was one of the masterminds of the attack. According to court reports from the time, he was sentenced to death in absentia. He escaped punishment, having fled the country.
But, according to Western intelligence, he was also involved in the hijacking of a Kuwaiti airliner, in a bid to free others involved in the embassy bombings, and is linked to the attempted assassination of a Kuwaiti prince.
His presence in the Iraqi parliament is now a source of rising tension between Baghdad and Washington. One reason, in parliament, he's immune from prosecution.
COOPER: Michael, this is -- this is obviously a -- a -- potentially embarrassing situation for both the Iraqi and the American governments. What have been their reactions so far?
WARE: Well, a U.S. Embassy spokesman says, American officials are actively pursuing Jamal Jafar Mohammed's case with their Iraqi counterparts. U.S. military intelligence on the ground here in Iraq has approached the Iraqi government, claiming Jamal is actively supporting Shia insurgents now and that he's a key agent for Iran's elite Revolutionary Guard Corps, Quds Force, one of Tehran's special forces element, and assists their operations as a conduit for weapons and political influence.
Iraq's prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, wants American intelligence now to share its information with Iraq's parliament, which could lift Jamal Jafar Mohammed's immunity from prosecution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARE: Sitting in the Iraqi parliament right now is a man accused and convicted in Kuwait of blowing up an American Embassy. U.S. intelligence claims he still has ongoing links to Iranian intelligence and covert networks.
What does this say to the world?
NOURI AL-MALIKI, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We don't want parliament to be a shelter for outlaws or wanted people. This is the parliament's view. But the parliament is responsible. I don't think parliament will accept having people like him or others.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So -- so, if his immunity from prosecution is lifted, can, then, the United States or Iraq go to parliament and arrest him?
WARE: Well, that will be very difficult, even if that happens, Anderson.
I mean, his current whereabouts are unknown. Indeed, senior Iraqis in the intelligence and security apparatus that we spoke to about this man fell silent at the mere mention of his name.
Now, for months, we attempted to contact him through parliament, through the prime minister's office, through his former political party, through the ruling Shia political alliance, of which he's currently a member, and through the paramilitary organization which he headed until shortly before the war.
But all of these attempts proved futile. There are rumors that he's already back in Iran -- Anderson.
COOPER: So, do you think the people who voted for him realized who he seems to be?
WARE: Well, certainly, when the United States sponsored the December 15, 2005 elections, and Iraqis voted for him for the -- and, for the first time, for a full and sovereign government, it's unlikely that many of those people knew precisely who he was, other than a -- a political figure put up by this Iraqi Shia political alliance.
However, his true identity and background was no secret to many within this Shia political alliance. Indeed, he's the former commander of the Iranian-backed Badr Organization, one of the foremost paramilitary outfits in this country.
Now, Prime Minister al-Maliki told me that this is an embarrassing problem, not only to his government, but to an American administration, holding up the Iraqi parliament as a democratic model for the entire region.
COOPER: Fascinating story.
Michael Ware, thanks for the reporting.
Back home, the showdown over Iraq, it was supposed to reach a climax today with a vote on a bipartisan Senate resolution opposing President Bush's troop buildup. Instead, the measure hit a snag that could kill it.
CNN's John Roberts is in Washington, trying to sort things out for us.
John, what happened?
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what happened, Anderson, was that a group of Senate Republicans who want to support the president didn't want this resolution to come to a vote.
So, led by the Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, they stood up and they said: Look, if we're going to consider this resolution, there's two others that we would like to bring a vote as well. One is the McCain-Graham resolution, which supports the increase in the number of troops, and also sets benchmarks for the Iraqi government to meet.
The other one was kind of an out-of-left-field resolution from New Hampshire Senator Judd Gregg, which would simply state that the president has the responsibility to commit troops into harm's way; Congress has the responsibility to fully fund those operations.
Now, what the Democrats didn't want to have happen is, they would vote for their resolution, expressing opposition to this increase, and then have the Gregg resolution pass, well, everything that you have just done doesn't mean anything, because you can't pull funding from the troops.
So, they voted to -- on whether or not to go ahead with the Warren-Levin resolution, which is the one expressing opposition. That was defeated 49 for, 47 against. It needed 60 votes. And, so, now they're going to back to square one with the whole thing.
COOPER: Well, both sides appear pretty dug in. And it's obviously exasperated the situation, what happened today.
Let -- I just want to play what Republican minority Senator Mitch McConnell and Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer had to say.
Let's play both of those. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: Welcome to the Senate. I mean, we're not stalling. We're -- we're using, at the risk of being redundant, the power of a robust minority to guarantee that we get fair treatment. Now, we're happy to have this debate. We're ready to have this debate, but not on terms dictated to us in this fashion.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Senator Durbin mentioned one political party, the mugwumps. I would say the Republicans in the Senate today resembled another as well, the know-nothings. Hear no evil. See no evil. Do no evil. Put your head in the sand. Ignore what's going on.
And, today, Senator McConnell led his Republican troops off a cliff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, what's -- I mean, what happens now? I mean, what's the likelihood there will be some sort of compromise?
ROBERTS: Well, you know, what -- what's -- What's really interesting, Anderson, is that, when you look at what happened in the Senate today, Senator Mitch McConnell was the band leader.
He was the one who was running the Senate. And the Democrats were left only to complain. McConnell held all the cards. Now, will he still hold all the cards tomorrow afternoon? That's something that Democrats are hoping that he won't, because he has got a caucus meeting tomorrow at 12:00 noon.
You might remember, last week, the Republican caucus meeting was very raucous. People were complaining long and loud about the president's plan, and: What do we do about it? So, Democrats are hoping that McConnell is going to get beat up during that caucus meeting, and that he will be forced into cutting a deal.
I talked with Senator Mitch McConnell's office earlier this evening. They say: Look it, he's up for negotiation, but he wants to make sure that these other two resolutions come to a vote as well.
I think he might let the McCain-Graham resolution go. But -- but he's firm and fast on this Gregg resolution, because he wants to see that contradiction, if these resolutions come up for a vote.
COOPER: It -- it sounds like Democrats were kind of caught by surprise in all of this.
ROBERTS: They -- they -- well, you know, they -- they were engaging in negotiations. There were backroom negotiations all day long today between McConnell and Senator Harry Reid.
The majority leader's office, they knew that there was going to be a problem going into this. They knew that they were going to have to muster 60 votes for this resolution to go ahead. They knew, going into it, that they didn't have it. So, all they really could do was kind of, you know, bark at McConnell and the Republican Party today.
But it -- it's also, we should point out, interesting to note that Senator Warner voted against his own resolution. So, this really may be the, you know, living to fight another day. The Democrats say, this is not dead; they're going to try to bring it back up again.
COOPER: All right. John, thanks very much -- John Roberts.
ROBERTS: You bet.
COOPER: New details tonight in a story that, sadly, is taking a grim, but predictable term.
When two missing boys were discovered at the home of a stranger, one after more than four years, people seemed to know what was coming next. And, today, it did: new charges, some horrific charges, dozens of them, against the man accused.
Reporting tonight from Saint Louis, Missouri, CNN's Jonathan Freed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Michael Devlin is now facing 71 new felony charges in the alleged abductions of Shawn Hornbeck and Ben Ownby, the two teenagers found in Devlin's apartment three weeks ago.
ROBERT MCCULLOCH, SAINT LOUIS COUNTY PROSECUTOR: Of the 71 counts, two are kidnapping, one involving each victim.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCULLOCH: And they're all pertained to restraining the victims in Saint Louis County.
FREED: The Saint Louis County prosecutor says Devlin, who managed a pizza restaurant near his home in Kirkwood, Missouri, is facing 69 other charges involving sexual abuse.
The first 17 of those charges were linked to the alleged abduction last month of 13-year-old Ownby, with the rest, more than 50 counts, related to Hornbeck, who was allegedly abducted in 2002, when he was just 11 years old.
MCCULLOCH: The concern is the impact that anything may have on -- on a young witness. And that, of course, includes the possibility of testifying. But that's something way down the line, if at all.
FREED: Over the last three weeks, investigators removed items from Devlin's apartment, including a bed frame.
Devlin has already pleaded not guilty to kidnapping charges in two other counties, where the boys disappeared. The Saint Louis County prosecutor claims Devlin acknowledged committing the acts he was charged with today. Each charge carries a possible life sentence.
ETHAN CORLIJA, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL DEVLIN: He is an innocent man under the eyes of the law.
FREED: Devlin's attorneys say, their client understands, the new charges are serious.
And, in an exclusive interview with CNN, the defense team criticized authorities in other communities, trying to see if there is a link between their missing-children cases and Devlin.
MICHAEL KIELTY, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL DEVLIN: They're fishing expeditions by the authorities. And our client is categorically -- and we, on behalf of our client, are categorically denying any involvement in any and all of those cases.
FREED: The lawyer representing Shawn Hornbeck, and his parents, say the family is finding a way to cope with learning the details of Hornbeck's ordeal.
SCOTT SHERMAN, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF SHAWN HORNBECK: Yes, it stings to see these things, to see your child out there. However, no matter what it is, no matter what the challenge, no matter how painful, that day, that sting is nothing compared to the four-and-a- half years without him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Jonathan, if there are all these jurisdictions filing charges, have they figured out where he is going to go to trial first? And could there still be more charges to come?
FREED: There could still be more charges, Anderson, because the federal level has not weighed in yet.
We have been in touch, constantly, with the FBI and the U.S. attorney's office. And, although they will say that they are looking at the possibility of federal charges, there's no indication that they're ready to move just yet.
And there's also this task force that brings together all the jurisdictions involved here, various counties and so on, as far as the investigation is concerned. And it's thought that that same -- those same people sitting around the table will eventually have to figure out who is going to get to go to trial first -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, disturbing charges.
Jonathan, thanks.
Straight ahead: a cold case some believe is white-hot, the murder of Adam Walsh. It turned his father, John Walsh, of course, into a crusader. Now a new witness comes forward. And what he is saying almost defies belief -- almost.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) COOPER (voice-over): America's most notorious monster, America's best-known crime-buster -- John Walsh lost his son, Adam. Was Jeffrey Dahmer the killer?
WILLIS MORGAN, EYEWITNESS: When the papers came in, I saw this picture of Dahmer, and I started speaking out. I said, this is the guy. This is the guy I saw in the market.
COOPER: The mall, the last place Adam Walsh was seen alive.
Also: a fed on the run.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to get hurt. You're going to spend the rest of your life running from the Hells Angels. We're going to get you.
COOPER: He went undercover, risked his life, got the goods on the gang. So, now he's getting federal protection, right? Wrong. See why not -- ahead on 360.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: A quick note about that story we're working on for tomorrow.
It is about who the military is letting into its ranks, men and women with criminal records carrying guns in Iraq. The military is desperate to meet its recruiting goals.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, here you have a felon who's charged with upholding the law, and given a gun to do so.
ROSE GIDDING, WIFE OF CONVICTED ARSONIST: Mm-hmm. Right.
KAYE: Your husband. Did it concern you?
GIDDING: It concerned me a lot, because he would tell me over the phone, you know, things about how he didn't like this person, and he could shoot them there, because, you know, they were in -- in Kuwait, and it was just desert, and no one would know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That woman's husband is still an Army reservist in California, available for another tour in Iraq.
Randi Kaye's report airs tomorrow on 360.
As the host of "America's Most Wanted," John Walsh has helped put hundreds of killers and fugitives behind bars. But his family is still waiting for justice. In 1981, you will remember, his 6-year-old son, Adam, was abducted and murdered in Florida.
To this day, the crime remains unsolved. However, you're about to hear a stunning new report that may possibly connect the case to a man who was the very face of evil, Jeffrey Dahmer, the serial killer and cannibal.
Tonight, witnesses are coming forward and evidence is being laid out that may -- just may -- put Dahmer at the same location where Walsh disappeared.
We begin with reporter Patrick Fraser from our Miami affiliate, WSVN.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATRICK FRASER, WSVN REPORTER (voice-over): In July 1981, a little boy was kidnapped from the Hollywood Mall. As South Florida searched for him, his family begged for him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, JULY 1981)
JOHN WALSH, FATHER OF ADAM WALSH: He's our only child. He's a beautiful little boy. And -- and we just want him back, more than anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRASER: But John Walsh never got Adam back. Six weeks later, Adam's head was found in a canal near the Florida Turnpike. His body was never found.
Two years later, a miserable drifter named Ottis Toole twice confessed to killing Adam, and twice bragged, he made it up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OTTIS TOOLE, MURDER SUSPECT: That Adam Walsh case isn't -- it ain't true.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What isn't true?
(CROSSTALK)
TOOLE: I didn't -- I didn't do that case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRASER: Toole was never charged in Adam's murder. And, for 26 years, the search has gone on for answers.
ARTHUR JAY HARRIS, TRUE CRIME AUTHOR: I just spent a lot of time going through and seeing -- looking for mistakes, looking for clues.
FRASER: Crime reporter Art Harris has spent several years digging into the Adam Walsh case, and now has come to a conclusion.
(on camera): Your conclusion? Who killed Adam Walsh?
HARRIS: I believe Adam Walsh's killer is Jeffrey Dahmer.
FRASER: Jeffrey Dahmer, one of the most infamous serial killers in American history, who admitted to murdering, beheading, and eating many of his 17 victims.
(on camera): But all Dahmer's victims were in Ohio or Wisconsin -- or were they? You see, in 1981, Jeffrey Dahmer was living right here on Miami Beach, off 174th Street, 20 minutes from the mall where Adam was kidnapped. In fact, Dahmer may have been at the mall at the exact moment Adam was grabbed.
What have you done that proves Jeffrey Dahmer could have been the killer?
HARRIS: It starts with the two witnesses at the Hollywood Mall.
WILLIS MORGAN, EYEWITNESS: He looked at me. And, when I didn't answer him, he got this crazed look on his face.
FRASER: One of those witnesses who says he saw Dahmer is Willis Morgan. He has never spoken on camera before about the person who confronted him as he stood in the Hollywood Mall the day Adam was kidnapped.
MORGAN: And then he came into the RadioShack. And he came right up to me, about arm's length. I could have reached out and touched him. And he repeated, really loud, like he was standing 15 feet around, or even more: "Hi there. Nice day, isn't it?"
FRASER: When Willis ignored the man, he walked away. Willis was suspicious, and followed him.
MORGAN: I followed him right to the toy department. I saw him walking into the toy department.
FRASER: The toy department at Sears was where Adam's mother had left him to play. Willis went to the Hollywood police to report his encounter, but they never interviewed him. And Willis didn't realize who he had seen for 10 years, until he saw a newspaper story about a serial killer being captured.
MORGAN: I was freaking out. I could hardly function. I -- I couldn't work the rest of the night.
FRASER: The face from that paper was Jeffrey Dahmer, the guy who confronted Willis, the guy he followed into the toy department.
MORGAN: Because I knew this was the guy.
FRASER (on camera): That's the guy you saw at the mall?
MORGAN: Oh, yes, absolutely.
BILL BOWEN, EYEWITNESS: That day, around noon, a little after... FRASER (voice-over): Bill Bowen was walking into Sears about the same time Willis saw Dahmer go in there. Bowen, who has also never spoken on camera, saw a man and a little boy struggling.
BOWEN: The little boy was saying: "I don't want to go. I'm not going." And he proceeded to take the little boy and literally throw him by one arm into a blue van. And then he sped off.
FRASER: Bill assumed it was a man and his younger brother. But, like Willis, he reported what he saw that day to Hollywood police. However, nothing came of it until 10 years later, when, like Willis, he saw a man's face in the newspaper.
BOWEN: That Sunday, in 1991, when the picture of Dahmer came out, it hit me like a baseball bat.
FRASER: Two witnesses who believe they saw Jeffrey Dahmer at the mall the day Adam was kidnapped.
And there's another link to Dahmer. The kidnapper left in a blue van. Dahmer worked at a sub shop, where they made deliveries. Harris' research revealed a startling fact about one of the delivery vans.
HARRIS: I learned that there's -- that one of the delivery vehicles where Jeffrey Dahmer worked was a blue van.
FRASER: When Bill and Willis saw Dahmer's picture in 1991, they contacted Hollywood police. A detective went to Wisconsin and interviewed Jeffrey Dahmer, who denied killing Adam Walsh. Detectives believed him them and now.
CAPTAIN MARK SMITH, HOLLYWOOD, FLORIDA, POLICE: I'm convinced he didn't do it. I...
FRASER: Captain Mark Smith has reviewed every document in the Adam Walsh investigation, and is not swayed by the two witnesses who told us they saw Dahmer that day.
SMITH: There are people that saw -- say they saw Jeffrey Dahmer. There's more people that say they saw Ottis Toole.
FRASER: But former FBI agent Neil Purtell, who interviewed Jeffrey Dahmer about the Adam Walsh case, has a different conclusion.
NEIL PURTELL, FORMER FBI AGENT: I said, "Jeffrey, tell me the truth."
He -- he looked away and said, "Honest to God, Neil, I didn't do Adam."
FRASER: Purtell said his years of experience told him Dahmer was lying about murdering Adam Walsh.
PURTELL: In interviewing him, I believe he's more than a possible suspect. He -- he -- he's much higher than that -- probably responsible, in my mind.
FRASER: John Walsh, Adam's father, thinks Ottis Toole is probably his son's killer. But he adds, he now wants the investigators to go talk to the two witnesses who think they saw Dahmer at the mall that day.
WALSH: I think the ball is back in Michael Satz's court, the Broward County prosecutor's court, to thoroughly look at this case. Even though it's a cold case, people have come forward who are claiming one thing, who are saying: We weren't taken seriously back 25, 26 years ago.
So, I think that they have to look at this case.
FRASER: Who murdered Adam Walsh, the sickening Ottis Toole, the cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer, or someone else who's still out there?
SMITH: I don't have a good answer for you.
FRASER (on camera): Will this case ever be solved?
SMITH: I would like to think so.
FRASER (voice-over): Of course, there are two witnesses will never forget what they saw the day Adam disappeared.
BOWEN: What looked like a very angry young man, holding a boy up in the air, violently, and throwing him into that van, and -- and speeding off.
MORGAN: I'm more than convinced. Oh, Jeffrey Dahmer, definitely.
FRASER: But, even if Willis is right, it's too late for a conviction. Jeffrey Dahmer was murdered in prison.
HARRIS: It can be resolved, and it can be solved, too. But there won't ever be a trial, because he's dead.
FRASER: Twenty-six years ago, a wonderful little boy disappeared. Twenty-six years later, all we keep discovering are more questions: Did Dahmer do it?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, when police finally caught up with Jeffrey Dahmer more than a decade ago, he made a horrifying confession. Here's the "Raw Data."
Dahmer admitted to killing 17 men and boys between 1978 and 1991 in the Milwaukee area. And, as you just heard, he dismembered, in some cases, cannibalized, his victims, keeping their body parts in his refrigerator.
In 1992, he was sentenced to 16 consecutive life terms. And, two years later, he was beaten to death in prison. Putting the new report about Dahmer to the test, we will ask two men who interviewed the serial killer if they think he could have killed Adam Walsh. That's next.
Also tonight: deep undercover. A federal agent penetrates the Hells Angels. He says, the government won't protect him. And now he fears for his life.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer confessed to murdering 17 people, but Dahmer denied taking another life, the life of Adam Walsh.
The 6-year-old son of John Walsh was kidnapped, killed in Florida back in 1981. Now, Dahmer swore to God that he didn't murder Walsh. But now some new questions are being raised that may place him at the scene of the abduction.
For more on the story, I spoke with former FBI agent Neil Purtell. He interrogated Dahmer. I also spoke to forensic psychiatrist Dr. Park Dietz, who examined the serial killer for some 18 hours -- also joining me, Arthur Jay Harris, a crime writer who claims to have under -- uncovered new evidence linking Dahmer to the Walsh case.
All three joined me earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Art, what to you is the most compelling evidence that Jeffrey Dahmer might have played a role in Adam Walsh's killing?
HARRIS: Well, the first thing is that he was here, that you have a man who, in Milwaukee, in 1991, was found with 11 severed heads in his apartment. And we have Adam with a severed head. That's all we ever found.
In 1978, three years before Adam was murdered, Dahmer, on his own admission, had killed a -- a man and severed his head. So, 15 minutes from the place where Adam was taken, you have to start -- you know, that's -- that's number one.
But, then, there's a whole -- there's a whole litany of evidence that's -- that has been collected that makes sense, that -- that says that this should be officially looked at.
COOPER: Dr. Dietz, there's some compelling evidence there. It's circumstantial.
Is there doubt, in your mind, that Jeffrey Dahmer might have killed Adam Walsh?
DR. PARK DIETZ, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: Sure.
COOPER: What gives you the greatest doubt? DIETZ: Well, I think my skepticism -- and it's just that, skepticism, pending receipt of the evidence -- comes from Jeffrey Dahmer's preferences.
First of all, there was no time, to my knowledge, that he was attracted to a prepubescent child. He was interested in teenagers. He was interested in young adults.
Second, the thing about human physique that most attracted him sexually was muscular development, particularly well-developed biceps. So, it's as difficult for me to imagine him being attracted to Adam Walsh as it would be for me to see Ted Bundy attracted to JonBenet Ramsey. It doesn't fit.
COOPER: But his own father that said he -- he started out -- or that he was a pedophile, convicted child molester. I think, at one time, he -- he even went to prison for fondling a prepubescent child, a 13-year-old Laotian boy.
I mean, is there -- is there an evolution in these kind of crimes?
DIETZ: Well, I think there are some errors in your premise.
First of all, he -- he was never diagnosed as a pedophile. And having 12- and 13-year-old victims does not make him a pedophile, because that's the age of puberty.
COOPER: So would he be a phebophile?
DIETZ: If you want to use the term. But his attraction was consistently to adolescents. That is teenagers and young adult males, never to children under 12.
COOPER: Neil, you interviewed Dahmer, and I know during that conversation, you asked him about Adam Walsh. He told you, "Honest to God, I didn't do it." Did you believe him?
PURTELL: No. I was -- I wanted to. But I couldn't.
COOPER: Why?
PURTELL: He just didn't seem sincere. First of all, he overemphasized. You know, "Honest to God."
And I said, "Jeffrey, let's leave God out of this conversation." And he didn't want to talk about it anymore.
COOPER: Art, the state attorney in Broward County, Florida, said, and I quote, "The only thing that can be drawn from the circumstantial evidence pointing to Dahmer's possible involvement in the Adam Walsh murder are hunches and suspicions, but there's no concrete evidence that proves Dahmer committed the crime."
Did you think authorities in Florida ever really took Dahmer seriously as a suspect in the Walsh murder? HARRIS: Not as seriously as they should have. They said at one point that, well, we're going to check it out. We're not going to let the serial killer be the word of your last judgment. It was exactly what they did. Dahmer said that he didn't do it. They didn't check out what the lies that -- Jeffrey had said he'd been in Miami.
I went and I talked to the people who knew him, and Dahmer's story fell apart at that point.
COOPER: Neil, what do you make of all of this? I mean, there seems to be this circumstantial evidence, two guys placing Dahmer at the mall that Adam Walsh was taken the day he disappeared. He had -- apparently had access to the blue van, as Art Harris has found out.
Does it pass the smell test to you? Do you think there should be investigation going on?
PURTELL: I think any time witnesses come forward, no matter what the circumstances, law enforcement has to follow the leads, has to resolve it. It's our obligation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: We'll have more from our panel in a moment, their take on the mind of Jeffrey Dahmer. What was it that made him kill? Fascinating insights.
Plus, the federal agent who gave up friends and family to go undercover inside the Hell's Angels. Now he says he's a target.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER (voice-over): A fed on the run.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to get hurt. You're going to spend the rest of your life running from the Hell's Angels. We're going to get you.
COOPER: He went undercover, risked his life, got the goods on the gang. Now he's getting federal protection, right? Wrong. See why not.
And they called him America's mayor.
RUDY GIULIANI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We just took another step toward running for president.
COOPER: Rudy Giuliani, one step closer to the White House, one step ahead of the kind of baggage most candidates don't pile up in a lifetime. Will it derail his presidential hopes? Ahead on 360.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: The fact is, we may never know if Jeffrey Dahmer murdered 6-year-old Adam Walsh back in 1981. But tonight, we are taking a close look at a possible connection between the serial killer and the unsolved case.
Forensic psychiatrist Dr. Park Dietz examined Dahmer and believes he had nothing to do with the Walsh abduction. But a former FBI agent, Neil Purtell, who interrogated Dahmer and author Arthur Jay Harris believes the new evidence is compelling. Here's more of our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Dr. Dietz, just so I'm clear, your -- your reluctance on this really is based on the 18 hours that you spent with him and an understanding of what his -- I don't know whether it's a pathology -- I don't know what the correct clinical term to describe him, but basically on what he liked. A 6-year-old boy was not that?
DIETZ: Well, yes. The source of skepticism that I add to the equation, besides the length of time that's passed and the unreliance of eyewitness on identification is that I think I do have some important information about Jeffrey Dahmer's sexual preferences and perversions, and they would not encompass Adam Walsh.
COOPER: You actually even had to watch movies, pornographic films with him so that he could describe to you what it was in particular that he found attractive, correct?
DIETZ: I handed him the remote so he could stop it and show me what he liked. He liked big shoulders, big biceps, slim hips, a slim waist.
COOPER: Bottom line, not children.
DIETZ: Right.
HARRIS: Can I go back to what Dr. Dietz has said, regarding the preference?
COOPER: Sure.
HARRIS: Willis Morgan was clearly the target in Hollywood Mall. Willis Morgan did had that build. And there's a photograph of Willis in the early '80s that shows that he was -- Willis hates this -- but he was sort of like the Chippendale's dancer sort of thing.
Willis -- when Jeffrey Dahmer, the man we believe is Jeffrey Dahmer, was upset because Willis had turned him down, then Willis followed him through the mall, into Sears, into the toy department of Sears, which is where Mrs. Walsh had said she last left Adam just for a few minutes. And that it's very possible that Adam Walsh was just the child -- the person who was easily taken and wasn't his first preference.
COOPER: Dr. Dietz, is that possible? Does somebody, you know, failing the person they want, just kind of lash out or grab a target of opportunity to use a -- to...
DIETZ: Look, target switching can happen, but it would still have to be within the general range of preference to be of any interest. And let me remind you that Dahmer never did abduct any of his victims. That would be a completely different M.O. for him.
COOPER: He experimented, though, over time with different ways of getting his victims. Isn't that correct?
DIETZ: Yes, but it was generally seduction, bringing them back to his home for sex, for money, or drugging them.
COOPER: The point being he wanted people to stay with him.
DIETZ: Yes.
COOPER: Neil, this case -- the Adam Walsh case, has been so long unsolved. It's been a cold case. Do you think justice will ever be done?
PURTELL: I think it will be done as long as law enforcement continues to pursue leads. That's our obligation. We -- if new information came on any case, even one we closed, I think it has to be examined against the facts that we now know at that particular time.
If we learn something new about a case where we've convicted somebody, we have an obligation to go back and re-examine it. It's -- it should never close, especially in an unsolved case.
COOPER: What was he like? I mean, in your time with him?
PURTELL: He was polite. Obviously, he was lonely, because he was on a segregation unit. He was not in general population at that point with other inmates. So he was -- he was adjusting to life in prison.
COOPER: Dr. Deitz, you've interviewed a lot of people, I imagine, like him. How did you find him?
DIETZ: Actually, I found him one of the more forthcoming and likable serial killers I've ever dealt with. He did not have the usual arrogance. I didn't find him angry and hostile. He didn't really, as far as I could tell, try to charm me.
Yet he seemed to truly want to understand why he had done this, how he had become this kind of person. I saw my time with him as a kind joint exploration to understand the path he had taken and how he'd got there, and I sort of liked the guy.
COOPER: Fascinating. Dr. Deitz, Art Harris and Neil Purtell. It's a fascinating discussion, guys. Thank you very much.
PURTELL: Thank you.
HARRIS: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Up next on 360, undercover Angel, how an ATF agent gained the trust of members of the most feared motorcycle gang in the country, the Hell's Angels. We'll take you inside the secret and dangerous world, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Coming up in the next hour, a castaway, armed and ready.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When this came out and this went in, all of a sudden, I became visible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The threats from a tycoon who says he'll do whatever it takes to save his yacht. That's in the next hour of 360.
But first, it was called Operation Black Biscuit, and its target was one of the toughest gangs in America, the Hell's Angels. In order to bring them to justice, undercover ATF agents earned the trust of the ruthless bikers and entered their secret world.
One of those agents was Jay "Jay Bird" Dobyns, a married father who lived with the Hell's Angels for almost two years. He now feels his own life is in danger and says the government isn't doing enough to protect him.
CNN's Kelli Arena takes us on his dangerous journey.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Shot in the head at close range, his body dumped in a shallow grave, the killing caught on tape. The murder of a member of the Mongol motorcycle gang was Jay Dobyns' ticket into one of the ruthless crime organizations in America, the Hell's Angels.
JAY DOBYNS, ATF AGENT: Even other people in the criminal world, they know that if you get sideways with the Hell's Angels, you have taken on 2,500 members from across the world.
ARENA: He entered a secret world of violence, intimidation, and complete loyalty. And pictures from that videotaped murder along with the bloody vest of a rival gang member was what it took to close the deal. Dobyns was in.
DOBYNS: I had committed, like, the ultimate deed, the ultimate act of loyalty to these guys. They took a Hell's Angels vest with a full patch on it. They draped it over my shoulders like a robe being put over a king's back.
ARENA: But look again. If it looks like a scene from a movie, that's because it is, complete with special effects. That's not real blood; it's fake. It's not actual brain tissue; it's cow guts.
DOBYNS: You take an oath as a law enforcement officer to protect the public.
ARENA: Dobyns is no aspiring criminal. He's an agent for the ATF, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. The rest, though, is all too real. Once he lied his way into the Hell's Angels, Dobyns knew that his fellow ATF agents couldn't do much to help them.
DOBYNS: Really, the best they're going do is to come in after the fact, capture the people that hurt you and hose your blood off the porch.
This is a Hell's Angels vest.
ARENA: For nearly two years, Dobyns abandoned his life, his family, his friends, to wear that vest and build a case against the motorcycle gang.
DOBYNS: I regret abandoning the family. I regret the heartache I put them through. I regret the mental anguish and torture on my kids in exchange for that.
ARENA: Dobyns even had to fake a relationship with a biker chick, really a female agent, to have an excuse not to sleep with other women.
DOBYNS: We were having women put on us. We're having women offered to us. As an undercover operator, there's only so far that you can go.
ARENA: To understand why the government was so anxious to get inside the Hell's Angels, you only need to look at what happened at Harrod's Casino in 2002, a deadly brawl caught on camera.
The Hell's Angels were suspected of all kinds of criminal activity: gun running, drug trafficking, extortion, rape, murder. One of those alleged murders happened right here on Dobyns' home turf.
(on camera) I'm standing in front of the Hell's Angels clubhouse in Mesa, Arizona, where Cynthia Garcia spent her last night alive.
(voice-over) Cynthia Garcia partied with the Hell's Angels and apparently said something that one of them didn't appreciate. According to government records, she was beaten unconscious, driven to the desert, and stabbed more than two dozen times, her head nearly severed from her body. Dobyns testified about it in court.
With his undercover work done, Dobyns left the Hell's Angels behind, but he was in just as much danger. Inside the gang, there was loyalty, protection. They had his back. Outside, they wanted to put a knife in him.
DOBYNS: And he tells me, we know who you are. We know where you live. You're going to spend the rest of your life running from the Hell's Angels.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: You might imagine after what he went through, Agent Dobyns would be entitled to the same sort of federal protection that, say, a gang turncoat gets after blowing the whistle. Well, as you'll see in a moment, amazingly, you'd be wrong. You might be outraged to learn why.
Also tonight, the colossal new price tag for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER (voice-over): Paying the price, first in American lives, now in hundreds of billions of more dollars. You won't believe how much more the war is costing, ahead on 360.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, as we told you before the break, ATF agent Jay Dobyns has spent two years on one of the most dangerous undercover assignments possible, penetrating the most feared motorcycle gang in the world, the Hell's Angeles. Now our story continues with what happened after the investigation was over and Dobyns' cover was blown.
Here again is CNN's Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA (voice-over): When Jay Dobyns finally broke cover and helped to build a case against the Angels, you'd think he'd be safe. You'd be wrong. The Hell's Angeles came looking for Dobyns. ATF agents say they enlisted other gangs like the Latino and S-13 and the Nazi Aryan Brotherhood, and they put a price on his head.
DOBYNS: There was a murder contract on me, and there was what was called a green light list, which was circulating in the prison, which was a list of people that various gangs wanted killed.
ARENA: They found him in a bar. A biker walked up and threatened his life.
DOBYNS: That confrontation, like, escalates to, you know, a nose-to-nose confrontation where it's, you know, ready to go bad at any moment. And at that point, he -- he left. He left the bar.
I reported that threat. And then that's what started things spinning. That's what started the downward spiral for my life.
ARENA: So what did the ATF do about it? Even though the Angels knew where he lived, he was given just a routine transfer with no special protection.
The ATF could have moved Dobyns and his family under what is known as a threat policy. It's similar to the kind of protection the government routinely gives witnesses in organized crime cases. DOBYNS: They hide you. They hide, like, your personal information. They keep you off, like, the Internet grid. You can't be found through tax records, through telephones, through -- through utility bills, through mailings, things like that.
ARENA: But federal agents who go undercover don't automatically get a high level of protection. The reason?
DOBYNS: And the answer I got was backstopping you is not a financially sound move for the agency to make right now.
ARENA: That's right. The man who risked his life to help build a case against a brutal gang says he was left vulnerable by an agency that he served for two decades.
Dobyns has filed a claim with the ATF for the emotional strain it has put on his family and for the money he spent trying to keep them safe. We asked the ATF to respond, but the director says, due to standing policy regarding personnel matters, he would not talk specifically about Dobyns' complaints.
He says Dobyns' allegations "are being reviewed by all the relevant offices within ATF and the Department of Justice and that he's waiting for the results before reaching any conclusions."
As for Dobyns, it didn't take long for the Hell's Angeles to find him again.
DOBYNS: And the threats included threats to, like, find and torture my daughter, who was 15 at the time.
ARENA: And so he ran, relocating again and again on his own dime. We interviewed him at his new home, far from his old Hell's Angels old stomping grounds. His wife, who wouldn't show her face on camera, says she's trying hard to keep it together but worries about her kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You tend to kind of look over their shoulder a little bit more. You think about when they're going out, are they going to be safe? I've had moments where I thought my son could get off of the bus and get kidnapped.
ARENA: Jay Dobyns' story plays like a movie. But this isn't Hollywood. No neat endings. And his safety, his life, are still on the line.
Kelly Arena, CNN, Mesa, Arizona.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Remarkable story. Randi Kaye joins us right now with the "360 News and Business Bulletin" -- Randi.
RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, Anderson.
A bone-chilling cold wave is gripping much of the plains and the northeast. At least four weekend deaths are being blamed on that weather. It as 42 below zero this morning in Embarrass, Minnesota. The bitter cold forcing schools to shut down in Ohio, Wisconsin, and upstate New York. Amtrak canceled service in parts of New York, where the cold was accompanied by as much as two feet of snow.
Turner Broadcasting and the marketing company Interference Incorporated have agreed to pay $2 million in compensation for the ad campaign that led to a terrorism scare in Boston last week. Turner is the parent company of the Cartoon Network, which initiated the campaign, and CNN.
Half of the $2 million will pay for the emergency response. The remainder will help fund homeland security and other programs.
On Wall Street, stocks were mixed today. The Dow gained six points. The NASDAQ fell five, and the S&P 500 lost just one point.
Finally, for the third time in nearly three decades, Apple Computers has resolved a bitter trademark dispute with the Beatles' Guardian Apple Corps Ltd. The two Apples were fighting over use of the iconic Apple logo and its name. It's still unclear whether iPod users will be able to download Beatles songs anytime soon -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Randi, thanks.
Rudy Giuliani took another step closer to running for president today. He's got great name recognition, obviously, good poll numbers and a lot of people who say he'll never even get nominated. We'll talk about why in our next hour.
Plus, the staggering cost of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. President Bush is asking for tens of billions more dollars. We'll crunch the numbers ahead on 360.
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COOPER: It sounds stranger than fiction, but could it be true? Could the son of the host of "America's Most Wanted" have fallen victim to serial killer and cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer? A new witness comes forward, and we'll hear from him shortly.
First, though, the man who became known as America's mayor after 9/11, Rudy Giuliani. Rudolph W. Giuliani is how it reads on paperwork today, signaling his intention to run for president.
Unlike some of his potential opponents, he's a Republican with almost universal name recognition. Also unlike many others, if he runs, he would be a candidate with baggage.
CNN's Candy Crowley investigates.
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