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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
John Edwards' Wife to Hold Press Conference; Suffer the Children; Smokey Mess; Phil Spector Trial
Aired March 21, 2007 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: John Roberts in New York -- John.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi Anderson. I'm sorry. I was just getting an update there. That's -- you heard the phone ringing just before the top of the hour. My apologies.
We've got some breaking news, Anderson. It involves John Edwards, former Democratic Senator from North Carolina currently running for president, running third in most of the polls.
I just got off the phone with somebody close to John Edwards. Apparently here's what happened. On Monday his wife, Elizabeth, who you'll remember after the 2004 campaign was diagnosed with breast cancer and was treated for that. They believed that it was in remission, had a doctor's appointment.
She was told on Tuesday that she needed to come back and see the doctor again today. John Edwards was in Iowa, a series of campaign events. He cut short that schedule to fly back to be with her. They went to the doctor together today and this press conference tomorrow is related to the results of that doctor's appointment that Elizabeth Edwards had today.
Now, the campaign is not saying anything as far as what they are going to say tomorrow, but people close to John Edwards tell me tonight that this is not going to be a moment where she comes out and says everything is fine.
So, I mean you could interpolate from that that perhaps there was some bad news from the doctor. We can't say that for sure, just basically reading into what I'm being told from people who know the two of them quite well.
So, it is definitely a medical condition related to Elizabeth Edwards that they'll be talking about at this press conference tomorrow. So, as I said I don't want to say that it's bad news, but let's put it this way, she's not coming out to give good news.
So, Anderson, we're going to keep following this story. Some breaking news about Presidential Candidate John Edwards and his wife, Elizabeth.
Certainly our prayers are with them both, as they were when she was diagnosed with breast cancer and went through treatment. But we're going to have to wait just a little bit longer, Anderson, to be able to tell you 100 percent what this is all. But right now let's go back to you in Phnom Penh -- Anderson.
COOPER: Yes, we obviously don't want to go down the road of speculation on something like this.
John, just talking about his campaign, how is his campaign going to the political watchers you've been talking to?
ROBERTS: It's going very well, Anderson. You know, he certainly doesn't have, you know, the same level of attention being paid to him now that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama do.
But in Iowa, for example, he's doing very well. He's got a lot of money behind him. He's running on a platform that's adjusted a little bit from the way that he was running in the early going in 2004, before he became the running mate.
Just yesterday he unveiled a big energy plan, so he's going down the road of a lot of things that a lot of people who are the base of the Democratic Party really like.
And again, the fact that he's polling well in some of these really important states like Iowa means that he's definitely still alive.
And there's so far to go in this race, as well, that it's possible for the frontrunners to falter. And John Edwards is there in a very, very solid place. He likes being where he is right now. He says he's learned a lot after running for vice president in the 2004 campaign. He thinks that he's in a good place. So definitely had a real chance, a real shot at the nomination here.
We don't know what this is going to mean as far as his campaign goes. That's going to have to wait until tomorrow. But again, hearing that perhaps it's a negative medical news about his dear wife, Elizabeth, and the campaign is going to wait until this press conference tomorrow to sort of unveil this all and tell us what it means for the campaign.
But definitely his campaign was running very strong, had a lot of support -- Anderson.
COOPER: We'll, of course, bring that press conference to you live.
John Roberts, thanks for that. We'll come back to you shortly.
COOPER: As we said at the top o the program, we are in Phnom Penh, Cambodia. And we're looking at not only the trade in animals, the illegal trade of animals and animal parts, but in human trafficking, literally the buying and selling of young women and children.
So many of the people forced into the sex industry are in fact children. The U.N. estimates at least 25 percent of the prostitutes working here are under the age of 17. Cambodia, though, is far from the only place, of course, where young lives are exploited and sacrificed.
In Iraq -- in this case we're talking about terrorists using children. There was an attack in the capital over the weekend. CNN's Michael Ware has been investigating this troubling, new twist. He joins me from Baghdad -- Michael.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, what we have is an American general claims that U.S. troops allowed a car bomb through a checkpoint because they saw kids in the backseat.
Now, of course, there's been no confirmation of this and it's very hard for anyone to know exactly what went on here. But the use of children as decoys for a suicide bomber, if that in fact has happened, obviously is an incredibly heinous thing.
But I mean, we've been seeing children as part of this war from the beginning. All sides in the fight here in Iraq have been killing children, either by dropping bombs on their houses, blowing them up as part of indiscriminate bombings or now literally targeting them in the sectarian civil war.
And kids have been part of the insurgency since the beginning. They're used as spotters, they're used to do reconnaissance, they're used to plant roadside bombs, they're used to trigger the bombs.
Indeed, I remember spending time with an 8-year-old who used to sit there pushing the buttons, trying to blow up U.S. troops.
So, this is just a nightmare for children from beginning to end. And this would be just a particularly heinous, new development through that -- Anderson.
COOPER: Yes, the idea that insurgents would put children in a vehicle, ladened with explosives as a way of getting it through a U.S. checkpoint, it's a tough thing. How do you fight against that if you're a soldier, if you're a Marine, what do you do?
WARE: Well, it is. It's almost impossible to fight against. I mean, it's like the whole concept of suicide bombing. As many U.S. commanders will say, the most -- one of the most powerful weapons on a battlefield is a man willing to die.
Here, they're prepared to sacrifice children up on the altar of warfare. Now, bear in mind, those behind the suicide bombings are al Qaeda. This is in particular al Qaeda in Iraq. And it's hard lined vision. Much more hard line even than that of Osama bin Laden.
Now, to these men, anyone involved in the suicide bombings or any innocence killed in their suicide bombings are ushered quickly to heaven. They're being rushed to heaven. So in their kind of perspective for what it is, they think that they're doing these people a favor by sending them to God much quicker, honoring them as martyrs. But to everyone else, there's absolutely no justification for any kind of tactic like this whatsoever. COOPER: I guess people come up with anything to justify their actions.
Michael Ware, appreciate the reporting.
Like Iraq -- only even worse -- this country once tore itself to pieces. Anywhere from 1.7 million to 3 million Cambodians perished after the ultra communist Khmer Rouge took power in 1975. It took years to start rebuilding this country.
Today the economy is growing, not that you'd really notice it here on this street, but there's also a lot of corruption. It isn't the sort of place where money flows in. It is where money flows out. From the Johns who frequent anywhere from 10,000 to 30,000 young sex workers.
We've come to Southeast Asia this week to track human slavery, along with the illegal wildlife trade. It's part of our Planet in Peril series. Cambodia, Myanmar and Thailand -- we're looking at all of those countries.
In Thailand we uncovered human trafficking. That's a practice that's making it hard to even breathe the air. More on that from CNN's Dan Rivers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Each year Thai farmers deliberately set light to the dry stocks of last season's corn and rice crop. A quick way to clear their land for replanting.
But this year it's a manmade disaster that's totally out of control. The fires have spread to the forests and a lack of breeze has left choking smoke hanging across an area twice as big as Massachusetts.
The city of Changmar is right in the center of this oppressive blanket. The very air people breathe is hazardous with three times the normal level of particles in the air.
Cases of respiratory illness are up 50 percent -- 2,000 people a day are going to the hospital.
(on camera): The longer the haze hangs over Northern Thailand, the greater the risk to everyone's health. And when you're outside, you can really taste the smoke. It catches in the back of your throat and really stings yours eyes.
(voice-over): At an emergency meeting to find a solution, officials themselves are feeling the effects. They take drastic decisions to try and alter the weather.
And this is what they're using, sodium chloride, basically salt, tons of it, dumped from a plane to try and seed clouds and bring rain. It is a desperate tactic as the smoke gets thicker and even threatens to ground the cloud seeding plane itself. The man in charge insists it is working.
APICHAI CHIRYPRAPA, DIRECTOR, ROYAL RAINMAKING BUREAU: Yesterday we found that it more clear (UNINTELLIGIBLE) than the day before. I think part of it come from our operation.
RIVERS: But the smoke isn't disappearing.
At the local firefighting H.Q., staff monitor the radio for new sightings of smoke. Firefighters know this bone dry forest could also go up if the farmers' fires spread further.
Farmers face fines and even prison if they persist in burning their land, but few seem to be heeding the warning, and the problem's just getting worse for everyone here simply trying to breathe the air.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: You actually got sick reporting up there?
RIVERS: Yes, both me and my producer were pretty sick, actually, really stinging eyes and really bad throat for a number of days afterwards. And we were only there for like two days. I can't imagine what it's like for the people who are living there who have been in that for a couple of weeks now. It really is pretty terribly bad.
The level of pollution is about three times the safe level. That just gives you an idea. It's like a sort of super smog, only this stuff is all natural material that's being burned.
COOPER: And how long has it been going on?
RIVERS: It's been going on for a couple of weeks now. And it's getting so bad that three provinces up there have been declared national disaster zones.
The U.N., which is up there helping refugees from Myanmar is actually thinking of pulling out its staff, that's how bad it is.
COOPER: Wow. All right, Dan, appreciate the reporting. Thanks very much.
Deforestation is another major environmental problem in this area and across the globe. Here's the raw data.
U.S. State Department estimates that forests four times the size of Switzerland are lost every year because of clearing and degradation.
The world suffered a net loss of 91 million acres between 2000 and 2005. Nigeria has the world's worst deforestation rate followed by Vietnam, Cambodia -- where we are tonight. Cambodia's actually number three.
We're going to have a lot more from here in Cambodia coming up. And also ahead tonight, the showdown in Washington.
Showdown in Washington. Will the fight over the firings of U.S. attorneys lead to a constitutional crisis?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to, we have to get to the bottom of this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to get at the truth or do you want to create a political spectrum?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The battle lines are drawn. The latest in raw politics.
Also ahead, musical genius and cold-blooded killer? The trial of Phil Spector begins.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a nut. And everybody in Hollywood has known that for a long time. He's a genius, but he's a nut.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We'll have the case and what he told cops moments before the body was discovered. That and more when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: And we continue to follow breaking news story regarding the John Edwards' campaign. For that, let's go to John Roberts in New York -- John.
ROBERTS: Hey, thanks, Anderson. Tomorrow John and Elizabeth Edwards are going to be holing a press conference, noon, in North Carolina in Chapel Hill, which is where they're living.
We understand that it's got something to do with Elizabeth Edward's health. You remember that after the election in 2004 she announced that she had breast cancer. She was treated for it. Apparently she had gone into remission, but what happened on Monday was she went in for a routine doctor's appointment for a follow-up. The doctor called her back on Tuesday and said I need you to come in again Wednesday.
John Edwards, who was campaigning in Iowa, cut his schedule there short, flew back to be with her. They went to the doctor again today.
The campaign and people close to the Edwards will not say exactly what the news tomorrow is going to be, but I'm told by a source who is very close to the Edwards that this is not going to be an announcement that everything is OK. Now, without speculation, we can reasonably interpolate from that that there is going to be some perhaps negative news about her health. So tomorrow at noon, Eastern time, in North Carolina, the Edwards will come out to talk about that.
We're going to have to wait to find out what kind of an effect this might have on this campaign. But apparently, it looks like not good news with the Edwards family. And of course our thoughts and prayers are with them on that. And we'll be following the story very closely. And we'll, of course, be carrying that news conference live tomorrow when it happens.
Now, into raw politics, just when it was getting good, the feud between Arnold Schwarzenegger and Rush Limbaugh is apparently over.
Limbaugh had called the governor a quote, "closet liberal" for some of his policies. Arnold fired back that Limbaugh was, quote, "irrelevant." But a good cigar, it seems, can heal all wounds. Schwarzenegger called in the Limbaugh show today to bury the hatchet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOVERNOR ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, CALIFORNIA: We're going to have a stogie together, and we will be talking about this from here to eternity. The key thing is, is that people should know that you and I, we don't have a fight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Smoking a stogie together, that's the direction they're headed in.
If you think it's just the planet that's getting hot because of global warming, take a look at this moment from today's Senate hearing with Al Gore.
Oklahoma Republican James Inhofe, who has called global warming, quote, "the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people," got his ears boxed by the Senator from California.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you -- would you agree -- would you agree to let the vice president answer your questions and then, if you want an extra few minutes at end, I'm happy to give it to you. But we're not going to get anywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't we do this? Why don't we do this? At the end you can have as much time as you want to answer all the questions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, that isn't the rule of -- you're not making the rules. You used to when you did this. You don't do this any more. Elections have consequences.
(END VIDEO CLIP) ROBERTS: For his part, Gore refused to take a pledge that Inhofe proffered to use no more energy than the average American household. You see, Gore's Nashville mansion is estimated to consume 20 times as much energy as most homes. Though Gore claims he's quote, "carbon neutral."
Inhofe didn't laugh out loud, but you could almost hear him chuckling on the inside when he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JAMES INHOFE (R), OKLAHOMA: Do you know how many hundreds of thousands of fans you have out there that would like to follow your lead, and this pledge merely says as you can read it up there, that you're agreeing to consume no more energy in your residence than the average American household by one year from today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: That's raw politics. But here's something even more raw. Robert Reich, remember him? Labor secretary under Bill Clinton? Well, he's blogging these days on his Web site -- vlog that is -- dishing about his date in 1966 with Hillary Rodham, now Hillary Clinton, presidential candidate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY: Let me reveal one more small facts. She wanted a lot of butter on her popcorn. A lot of butter. Significant?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: May we say that there are some things so raw in politics that you just don't need to know.
But when there is a need to know, or at least a perceived need to know, subpoenas can come in awfully handy.
The House Judiciary Committee today authorized subpoenas for Karl Rove and other senior White House officials in the investigation into the firing of eight U.S. attorneys.
President Bush said yesterday, he will go to the mat to prevent his aides from testifying under oath about the firings.
Democrats said the subpoenas won't be issued immediately, but the voice vote sets the scene for a possible constitutional showdown.
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, the man at the center of the firestorm, had lunch today with four Republican Senators on the Judiciary Committee. Outrage that comes a day after President Bush gave Gonzales a vote of confidence.
Now back to our breaking news about John and Elizabeth Edwards. CNN's Candy Crowley is following the story for us in Washington. She's also been out with the Edwards on the campaign trail. She joins us now on the phone.
Candy, as I was saying a couple of minutes ago, this announcement seems to have something to do with Elizabeth Edwards' health. She went back in for a couple of doctor's appointments, which apparently did not go so well. What are you hearing on your end?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on the phone): Well, you know, what I can tell you, John, is that if you recall when John Edwards got into this race, he said that he would only get in if he -- his wife had gotten a clean bill of health.
So we know that as of December, they were looking at what the doctors had given them, which was a clean bill of health. I can tell you that they're so inextricably tied that this would have beyond its personal implications, would have some political implications as well because one would be hard pressed to think that he wouldn't at least suspend his campaign or do something like that if this is bad news and we have to emphasize that we don't know at this point.
ROBERTS: So, you know, it's no secret that these are two people who are very much in love and have been for an awfully long time. They are college sweethearts.
If in fact it is found -- and it's not to say that this is the case, but if it's found that the cancer came back, Candy, what kind of an impact do you think that's going to have on the campaign?
CROWLEY: I think it would have a major impact. Obviously, this would be up to the two of them and whatever was found there. But again, he was not prepared to go on with the campaign had she not had a clean bill of health. So, for the two of them to have this announcement together, I think speaks to their twosomeness, if you will, and how they do do things together. This is a couple that lost a teenage child in a tragic car accident. They are very close. And John Edwards was very clear early on that her health came first and came first before any of his political ambitions.
ROBERTS: Now, of course, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are the frontrunners. Hillary Clinton, the frontrunner in our last poll by double digits. According to some other polls, though, the gap starting to narrow. Where was John Edwards in terms of his chances of becoming the nominee?
CROWLEY: John Edwards had been -- usually was in third place, sometimes tied with Al Gore for third place. So he was always looked at as well, if the two frontrunners really go at each other, John Edwards could move in there.
I can tell you he has a cracker jack group in Iowa working for him. He does very well in the Iowa polls.
I've talked to people in both the Obama campaign and the Clinton campaign who have said he's the guy to beat in Iowa because he has such a good campaign there. And as you know, he's been out there campaigning for a while, has the time to spend in some of these places. So he's been doing very well and much better, in fact, in the states than the national polls would show.
ROBERTS: And Candy, just give us a quick little bit of history about Elizabeth's diagnosis with breast cancer.
CROWLEY: Elizabeth's diagnosis came in the waning days of the 2004 election. She chose not to tell her husband about it until after the election and she did the day after, as I recall, tell him that she had found a lump in her breast while taking a shower and they immediately went and she had an operation. She did do chemo. She wrote a book about it, as you know, and about her recovery and their faith and their relationship. So, this was 2004 when she first discovered the cancer.
ROBERTS: Right. And you know, politics aside, she is just a terrific woman. I've had the opportunity to fly up in the shuttle between Washington and New York beside her a couple of times, ran into her at the airport. She always had a kind word and a hello and always loved to talk about not just politics, but family and children and everything.
So, again, our prayers are with the Edwards tonight that this news is going to be something that they can deal with. Again, it's related to her health. It was a follow-up appointment on Monday with her doctor for her breast cancer which had believed to have been in remission, prompted another doctor's appointment today.
John Edwards canceled events in Iowa to be with his wife. Tomorrow at noon they're going to come out and they're going to talk about what this means for the future, for her future and for the future of his campaign.
Candy Crowley, thanks very much. We'll keep watching the story very closely for you.
ROBERTS: Next up on 360, he helped produce the soundtrack for the '60s and beyond. That was then. Today, music legend Phil Spector is on trial for murder. We're at the courthouse.
Also tonight, bar room rampage. The security tape only tells part of the story. Wait until you hear what the woman being attacked told us, when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: The man who produced the Beatles' "Let it Be" album and helped create pop music as we know it, is now on trial for murder.
Phil Spector has been called eccentric, crazy, a genius, a recluse. Now prosecutors have added another name for him, accused killer. The case and the circus surrounding it is under way.
CNN's Dan Simon reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The jurors will be asked to decide what exactly happened just before dawn four years ago at the house up on the hill.
The incident began a few hours earlier, about 20 miles away, in the heart of the Sunset Strip. That's when Phil Spector, a legendary music producer, met a striking blonde named Lana Clarkson, a hostess at the House of Blues and a struggling actress.
Clarkson had some B film credits like "Amazon Women on the Moon" and a few small TV roles.
As for Spector, he was 64, renowned for inventing what's called the wall of sound, a wave of layered instruments used by almost every musician today.
In the '60s and '70s he worked with the biggest acts, including the Beatles.
(on camera): In the music industry, Phil Spector was regarded as a genius, whose time had long passed. A very wealthy producer who had also become reclusive and all but disappeared inside his gated mansion. Neighbors call this place the castle. But the man living here also had a darker reputation, someone with a quick and reckless temper, who had a fondness for guns and alcohol.
HARVEY LEVIN, MANAGING EDITOR, TMZ: On the level of music, Phil Spector is loved. On the personal level, Phil Spector is feared because of his personality. And that's a problem in this case.
SIMONS: In grand jury testimony on that February night, witnesses say Spector arrived here at House of Blues shortly before closing time. He was slurring his words and was unsteady. Several times he invited Clarkson to go back to his mansion. She told him no, but eventually gave in, agreeing to go there for only one quick drink.
(voice-over): 5:00 a.m. at mansion, the driver had been waiting in Spector's Mercedes for about an hour when he heard a pop. Court documents say Spector emerged from his house, blood on his hand, and told his driver, quote: "I think I just killed someone." Police would find Lana Clarkson's body slumped over in a chair.
HARVEY LEVIN, MANAGING EDITOR, TMZ.COM: I think the most powerful evidence that the prosecution has is Spector's own words. "I think I killed somebody." If the jury believes he said that, case closed.
SIMON: Harvey Levin is an attorney and managing editor of the celebrity Web site TMZ.
LEVIN: Phil Spector is a nut, and he happens to be a genius but a nut, nonetheless. And that is the challenge that he has before this jury, because he's so off-center that he's capable of a lot. And the question is, is he capable of shooting someone with a gun?
SIMON: Spector soon claimed he was innocent and Clarkson committed suicide while in a hazy state of mind. As for the gun used to kill her...
PHIL SPECTOR, DEPENDENT: The gun the deceased used to kill herself was not owned by me nor registered to me.
SIMON: But prosecutors don't buy the suicide. Neither do Clarkson's friends and relatives. They say she had a lot to live for, and would never do anything to put her life at risk.
RAY CAVALERI, LANA CLARKSON'S AGENT: She was just a very positive person, very upbeat, very spontaneous.
SIMON: For years Spector has also been known for his flamboyant appearance, but for the trial, he has toned it down. So the jury must decide exactly who is Phil Spector? And what happened in those early hours up there? Was it some kind of weird foreplay gone wrong? Did the actress decide to take her own life in front of a music mogul she had just met? Did Spector suddenly become enraged and kill her or was it simply an accident caused by a legend with a love for guns?
Spector earned his place in the Eock & Roll Hall of Fame. The question now is, will he earn his freedom?
Dan Simon, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: And CNN's legal eagle Jeffrey Toobin joins us up next to talk about the case.
And then later on, the vicious one-sided fight that is making headlines across the nation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Bartender attacked. Brutal and shocking. And wait until you hear who the suspect is. Tonight, the exclusive interview with the victim.
Also ahead, driven from war. A refugee search for a new home and the secret he shares about the former top U.S. general in Iraq, when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING, "UNCHAINED MELODY")
ROBERTS: Now there's a 'do. But it was a great song. "Unchained Melody," The Righteous Brothers. More now on the Phil Spector trial. Needless to say, it may be pretty tough to find a jury of his peers, with hair like that, anyways. CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins us for his thoughts on this high-profile case.
But you know, if I let my hair go, you know...
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: You'll look exactly the same.
ROBERTS: You know what, there's a kinship there. It's a beautiful thing. TOOBIN: Well, I'm certainly hoping though that the kinship doesn't extent to...
(LAUGHTER)
ROBERTS: No, no farther.
TOOBIN: ... all things.
ROBERTS: "Accidental suicide" is what Phil Spector is claiming this death was. Accidental suicide? Not a common defense. I'm sorry, I don't want to make light of this but...
TOOBIN: But he has got one big advantage in that there are no witnesses. He's the only witness. And you know, that is a -- seems like a sort of preposterous claim on its face. Especially for someone...
ROBERTS: Well, it does, because suicide is intent, you can't accidentally commit suicide.
TOOBIN: Right. I mean, it is sort of like, well, how does this thing work? I mean, just an accident in general seems to be the defense. But you know, no witness, we'll see what he can do.
ROBERTS: Speaking in his favor, though, investigators found that the gun was in Lana Clarkson's mouth, she did have gunpowder residue on her hands, high blood alcohol content.
TOOBIN: Not a pretty scene in that house. I mean, at 5:00 in the morning, and that is a -- you know, those are points in his favor. He has to deal with this admission he made to the driver where he said...
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: "I think I killed somebody"...
TOOBIN: "I think I killed someone."
ROBERTS: ... and he said later, no, I didn't say that.
TOOBIN: Which doesn't seem to be consistent with suicide but you know, we'll see what happens.
ROBERTS: So here we have yet another celebrity trial and it's interesting, too, that in picking a jury, a questionnaire has been circulated to potential jurors that includes questions liking, take a look at this, we'll put it up on the screen: Celebrities, do they -- whether or not they agree with the statements, quote: "Celebrities and high profile people think they can bend the rules," and "celebrities and high profile people do not treat people with respect."
How does that play in jury selection? TOOBIN: Well, jurors -- the defense in particular wants to know and so does the prosecution what are their attitudes towards a celebrity? Frankly, I don't know how much of a celebrity Phil Spector still is for ordinary people. I mean, he's known in the music business but he's an odd-looking person, but I don't think he's particularly recognizable. I don't think the jurors would know who he was when he walked in.
But certainly, that is something -- you know, the Martha Stewart case they had questions like that in the jury selection. So it is pretty standard.
ROBERTS: Hey, also significant is that there are cameras in the courtroom, very rare occurrence in Los Angeles since the O.J. Simpson trial.
TOOBIN: Absolutely. And it's very much under the discretion of the trial judge. All of the trial judges in Los Angeles, and in the whole country, for that matter, remember how Lance Ito was criticized. They didn't want to expose themselves to that kind of criticism so they kept cameras out. The judge here is taking a risk. And we'll see what happens.
ROBERTS: He has got a bit of a different look going. The pictures that we showed were from 2005 with the hair ball. Take a look at that. That's a bad 'do.
TOOBIN: Yes.
ROBERTS: Take a look at him now. Cleaned up a little bit. How do you think that that's going to affect how the jury views him?
TOOBIN: Well, you know, Bruce Cutler, his lawyer -- he's had many lawyers, Bruce Cutler is his current lawyer, used to be John Gotti's lawyer, gave him the obvious advice, it's not a good idea to start your case looking like a freak.
ROBERTS: Well, he looks 30 years younger too.
TOOBIN: He looks a little better. Certainly that's a good start.
ROBERTS: A long time to get to trial, as well. But, you know, the question I really want to know, is Phil Spector ever going to stand trial for murdering the "Let It Be" album?
TOOBIN: Do you really -- you don't like "Let It Be" album?
ROBERTS: No, "Let It Be Naked" is much better.
TOOBIN: When did that come out, the "Naked" one?
ROBERTS: A couple of years ago.
TOOBIN: Just a couple of years ago. I don't know. I was sort of OK with "Let It Be." You know, a little over-orchestrated. ROBERTS: We'll agree to disagree.
TOOBIN: You know, the whole "wall of sound" thing.
ROBERTS: It's not (ph) quite (ph) The Beatles, though. Jeff Toobin, thanks very much.
TOOBIN: All right.
ROBERTS: Up next, 115 pounds of bartender, 250 pounds of angry customer, 100 percent of it caught on tape when 360 returns.
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ROBERTS: Take a look at this, though it can be hard to watch a beating caught on tape in a Chicago bar. That guy is an off-duty cop who allegedly went ballistic after the bartender, the woman that he's punching, refused to serve him. She weighs all of 115 pounds, about half his size by the looks of it.
The incident happened last month. And amazingly at first the cop got off with a misdemeanor charge. Tonight he's facing a felony battery charge. And is also likely, according to the Chicago Police, to lose his job.
I spoke with the bartender he attacked who only wanted to use her first name and her attorney earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Carolina, I viewed that tape a number of times and it's just brutal to watch. I can't imagine what it was like to be on the receiving end of that. Can you take us back to the bar that night of February 19th, and tell us how did this whole thing begin?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it began with the customer being -- since the beginning, being very rude to me and then not having money in the bar.
ROBERTS: He was pretty drunk, was he?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, after my serving, I don't think that he was actually drunk. He was, like more did not thinking what he was doing which when I refused serving him, then he got very mad.
ROBERTS: Terry Ecel (ph), let me read a statement put out by the Chicago Police Department. They said, quote: "The officer," and this is Anthony Abbate they're talking about, "has been relieved of police powers and a recommendation for termination is expected pending the completion of the internal investigation."
They only arrested him yesterday. This incident took place the 19th of February. Why did it take so long?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Interesting question, because the state's attorney's office got a hold of this right after it happened and began to do an investigation. And the Chicago Police Department last week decided to charge Abbate with misdemeanor charges and give him an I- bond. And the state's attorney's office, who I feel is doing a very good job of looking into this matter, immediately upped the charges to aggravated battery, they picked him up off the street last night. And he has absolutely no business being a police officer.
ROBERTS: Carolina, the injuries to your face, to your head, they pretty much cleared up, but you've still got some lingering injuries?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I didn't have -- to my face, I covered my face in my knees and my hands. But back of my head he hit it quite a few times pretty hard. That afterwards, after he left, and after the police and then I could feel like the swelling on the back of my head.
ROBERTS: Are you prepared to go to court to try to put Abbate in jail?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not yet. I'm not ready to meet that guy yet.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Well, we appreciate Carolina and Terry Ecels speaking to us. What happened in the Chicago bar would be disturbing no matter who was involved. But the fact that a cop apparently came so unhinged makes it even worse. It also raises the question, how often does this happen and should we be surprised?
Eugene O'Donnell teaches polices studies at John Jay College here in New York. He is a former NYPD officer and also a former New York City prosecutor and joins me now.
So there are plenty of good cops out there, we have got to give them that. And they work really hard and they do a great job. But there also are a number of cases that we've heard of where police officers just go off the handle. Does it attract a group of people who might be predisposed to violence?
EUGENE O'DONNELL, PROFESSOR, JOHN JAY COLLEGE: Well, the nature of the job is that police officers have to be willing to use violence. And not everybody in America wants to use -- is willing to use violence in the workplace. So you get a certain number of people who probably shouldn't be police people. Obviously this is a problem person who probably shouldn't be on the job to begin with.
ROBERTS: Yes, I mean, we saw the tape and obviously they were arguing back and forth and Carolina said that has well. But here was an officer who had taken an oath to serve and protect. To uphold the law. Even though there was back and forth between them, should she have ever assumed that this guy was going to suddenly allegedly turn violent and start beating on her like this?
O'DONNELL: Well, it's hard to tell if there was any indication of this problem. Usually, by the way, the cops are on the receiving end of this. They are the ones that have to make those judgments about whether people are going to act out like this. This is just a totally unjustified and apparently unpredictable event.
ROBERTS: Now according to The Chicago Tribune, he just came out of inpatient substance abuse. This could be why it took so long for charges to be filed. And apparently he was medically unavailable for a couple of weeks. Is this a department -- is this a problem that should have been picked up and addressed by the department sooner? Did the Chicago Police Department fail this young lady?
O'DONNELL: It's early to point fingers. Clearly, though, police departments have a responsibility to screen and monitor and supervise and separate people that are involved in these kinds of incidents. They're not always foreseeable but departments have to do everything they can to make sure that -- you know, (INAUDIBLE) these kinds of incidents.
ROBERTS: When I talked to her attorney earlier today, he said, thank God this incident was caught on tape. Imagine what he would have said if it wasn't? Can we automatically assume that?
O'DONNELL: Oh, well, obviously this is going to end in a plea bargain or it's going to be the shortest criminal case in the history of the world, because it's a slam-dunk case. There's no justification. And...
ROBERTS: But can we assume, though, that he would have tried to lie his way out of this? That's what the inference was.
O'DONNELL: One thing we're learning about videotapes is lots of people -- there's a gotcha factor, because lots of people say, well, I didn't do things and there you go. You have it right on videotape.
ROBERTS: Right. But is it an automatic that a police officer involved in something like this, if it weren't on tape, would try to weasel their way out of it?
O'DONNELL: It might have been years ago. I think increasingly now at police departments they -- you have to be awfully careful as an officer responding, because if you try to cover things up, you could lose your job, lose your pension, go to jail. So lots of things like have happened.
Well, Eugene O'Donnell, thanks very much for coming in. Really appreciate your insight into all of this.
O'DONNELL: My pleasure.
ROBERTS: Up next, back to Anderson in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, with the story of an Iraqi man who gave tennis lessons to an American general inside the Green Zone. Now he has forced to flee his country. He's just one of the millions of Iraqi refugees but his story is incredible, that's next on 360.
And don't miss "LARRY KING" at the top of the hour. His guests, Bill Cosby and Toni Braxton speak out on autism.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ROBERTS: Want to take a moment to update you on breaking news tonight. Tomorrow at noon in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, John and Elizabeth Edwards will be holding a press conference. Apparently it's related to news about Elizabeth Edwards' health. You'll remember that after the 2004 election, she was -- she came forward with a diagnosis of breast cancer, it was treated, believed to be in remission. She had a doctor's appointment earlier this week. The doctor noticed something of concern, asked her and John to come back in on Wednesday, that's today.
John Edwards cut short his campaign stops in the State of Iowa to be with her. It looks like there may be some difficult news dealing with her health. They'll be addressing that tomorrow. As for the potential effect on John Edwards' campaign, we hear from somebody close to the Edwards tonight, quote, "do not assume the worst."
So this is a story that we'll keep following for you and we'll definitely be there live for the press conference tomorrow. This is a picture at a recent book signing. Elizabeth Edwards has come out with a book recently about her trials with breast cancer. There's a very nice shot of the two of them together. And we'll be following this breaking news for you.
But right now let's go back to Phnom Penh, Cambodia, and here's Anderson.
COOPER: John, thanks very much. The war in Iraq now of course in its fifth year. And it has left millions of Iraqis caught in the crossfire homeless. According to a new U.N. report, some 2 million Iraqi refugees are now in neighboring countries in the region. The vast majority have fled to Syria and Jordan. But tens of thousands are also in Lebanon.
CNN's Beirut bureau chief Brent Sadler has the story of two families who now call Lebanon home.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MANHAL KUBBA, IRAQI REFUGEE: OK. Stretch your arm.
BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): For this man, Manhal Kubba and his 11-year-old daughter, the warnings were drawn in blood.
KUBBA: I lose my best friend there.
SADLER: So they ran for their lives. They are part of what the U.N. estimates to be more than 40,000 Iraqi refugees who fled to Lebanon. Manhal's murdered friends were elite tennis players. He is a coach and is a Shia Muslim married to a Sunni. Unidentified gunmen shot the three tennis stars, apparently because they favored Western style sports clothing.
KUBBA: Our best in Iraqi tennis, they are (INAUDIBLE), two players, one number one, in Iraq, the second number three, the tennis (INAUDIBLE) for Iraqi team. So I decided to leave. SADLER: Manhal also had a secret. A top-ranking Iraqi army officer asked him to give tennis lessons to America's former top soldier in Iraq, General George Casey, inside Baghdad's fortified International Zone.
KUBBA: Nobody knows I go inside to give a lesson for General Casey. But the bad guys and the terrorists, if you see anybody go to Green Zone, they want to kill him.
SADLER: This man also fled Iraq for his life. But his situation is exactly the opposite. Saifaldin al-Alousi is a Sunni Muslim, married to a Shia.
SAIFALDIN AL-ALOUSI, IRAQI REFUGEE: I am suffering for the rivers blood of innocent people. I never imagined -- even in very bad dreams I never imagined what happens now in Baghdad.
SADLER: After the U.S. Invasion, al-Alousi supported the interim government in what would be failed effort to unify Iraq's religious and ethnic factions. He believes that's why he received a death threat.
(on camera): Who has done more damage to Iraq, Saddam Hussein or the American-led invasion?
AL-ALOUSI: Of course, as the result of the American we have new generation -- a new criminal generation. I will never let my sons and my daughter to live in such society.
KUBBA: And the situation in Iraq is not good. I will never come back to Baghdad. I will stay here.
SADLER: Two Iraqi families who have seen enough bloodshed at home to join the 2 million Iraqi refugees who have scattered across the world.
Brent Sadler, CNN, Beirut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Two families stories. We'll have more on our trip here to Southeast Asia in a moment for our "Planet in Peril" report. Your feedback from the 360 blog, that's what's "On the Radar." Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: "On the Radar" tonight, our reporting on animal trafficking, dozens of responses so far on the blog. From Kim in Boilingbrook, Illinois, she writes: "I hope that someday soon you'll consider reporting on the annual commercial seal hunt that takes place in Canada. Thanks for not only reporting on the human stories, but the animal stories as well.
"The people who traffic in these products can be aggressive and dangerous," says Jo Ann in North Royalton, Ohio, "how did you protect yourselves during these raids? Be careful and take care." Finally, this from Mark in Sacramento: "Do not eat the little dark red brown Thai peppers," he writes, "smoke will come out of your mouths and noses." Mark, I wish I had read your e-mail just a little bit sooner.
And as always, we welcome your input. Just go to cnn.com/360, and weigh in. Watching "AMERICAN MORNING" tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. Also want to thank John Roberts for helping us so much tonight from New York, especially with that breaking news. And a reminder, be sure to catch all of the news on "AMERICAN MORNING," as I said, 6:00 a.m. Eastern. And "LARRY KING," which is coming up next. I'll see you tomorrow night from (INAUDIBLE). Take care.
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