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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Inquest Into Death of Anna Nicole Smith's Son Begins; U.S. Senate Sets Deadline For Iraq Withdrawal
Aired March 27, 2007 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone.
We're going to have more on Tony Snow's cancer battle just ahead.
And there's news out of the Bahamas, where the inquest into the death of Anna Nicole Smith's son, Daniel, began today. Doctors know he died of an overdose, like his mom. The question a jury is going to decide: Was it an accident? We will look at the facts ahead.
But we begin with a close vote in the Senate over a withdrawal date for troops in Iraq. It came down to just two votes, 50-48. Democrats fought hard to keep the March 31, 2008, deadline in an Iraq spending bill pending before Congress. Debate on both sides was fierce today. And, in the end, the Democrats got their way. They may also get a veto from the president.
CNN's Suzanne Malveaux joins me now.
Suzanne, a bitter battle on Capitol Hill.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, and really harsh words from the Bush administration.
We heard the president, we heard his aides simply slamming this bill, saying nothing is going to be acceptable that has a date for troops withdrawal -- one of their deputies saying that: "The president is disappointed that the Senate continues down a path with a bill that he will veto and has no chance of becoming law. In the two weeks since the Senate defeated a similar proposal, General Petraeus reports encouraging signs that are already emerging."
So far, Anderson, the White House is not yet worried. They think this is veto-proof legislation. But, then, if the Republicans start jumping ship, it is going to be a big problem. So far, the strategy is, despite the fact that it's going to be the president to veto, they are painting this as the Democrats vs. the U.S. troops -- Anderson.
COOPER: It -- it seems like Congress is drawing out every step of this process. Why is that?
MALVEAUX: Well, you know, so far, this is -- this is a blow symbolically, but symbolism means everything now.
I mean, case in point, it was about 5:00 in the afternoon the vice president's office got a call from the Republican leadership, said: Quick, you have got to get over to the Hill. We need you for a possible tie-breaking vote here. The motorcade sped off, went to the Hill, and Cheney was there on notice, waiting to cast, as the president of the Senate, that tie-breaking vote. Didn't happen, because they had the two votes, essentially, to override that tie.
So, it was a moot point. But it -- but, case in point, it really does show that every step of the way is important for this president, for the Democrats to score those political points.
COOPER: Political points is what it's about right now, it seems.
Suzanne, appreciate it. Thanks.
Today's vote in the Senate comes nearly a month into the U.S. troop increase in Iraq. This month, the Pentagon, for the first time, used the word civil war to describe the sectarian violence in Iraq.
Just how bad it is on the ground has long been a point of debate, of course. And, today, the new top commander in Iraq, Admiral William Fallon, told CNN's Kyra Phillips that he sees signs of hope, not civil war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADMIRAL WILLIAM J. FALLON, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: The idea that the whole country is at war with one another, I think, is absolutely not true. But there are some zealots here that will stop at nothing. And they don't care how many men, women or children they will kill or maim.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And you don't think there's civil war?
FALLON: No. I don't think it's a civil war. There are factions that are fighting one another.
There are small factions that are fighting one another, small factions. But look at these parts of the city. One thing that I have the advantage -- they don't yet -- and that is, we get reports from all of our security forces, from coalition forces that are out there, and from the Iraqi forces, and we can look at this day by day, week by week. The trends are -- I'm cautiously optimistic.
PHILLIPS: You mentioned Americans coming home. Former Iraqi Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad said democracy could take generations. Could U.S. troops be here for generations?
FALLON: We have U.S. troops that have been places in the world for decades, but in a different construct, and -- but trying to provide stability and security. We would certainly not envision the number of troops that are here now doing this.
The idea that we're going to put a mirror image of the U.S. system in place here in a matter of months, or even a couple of years, is not realistic. PHILLIPS: What are you going to do about Iran? They are helping the militias. They're involved in this country. They're contributing to this war.
FALLON: The question is, what is Iran going to do about their behavior? Iran, specifically, has been unhelpful.
We know it. And we have made it known that we know it, and are not going to tolerate it. This -- we -- we cannot have them aiding and abetting with tactical and -- and weapons help to the killers here, injuring and maiming, not only our people, but Iraqi people.
PHILLIPS: Would you consider war with Iran?
FALLON: We're not interested in -- in a war. We have got a conflict going here that we have got lots of folks tied up trying to fix. We have another conflict in Iraq -- Afghanistan. I'm headed over there tomorrow to take a look at that.
But Iranian behavior has been not only unhelpful, but detrimental to peace and progress. Now, Iran sits in a neighborhood of other countries. My intention is to go around and meet the leaders of -- of these countries in the region. And I'm going to talk to them about this, two things on my agenda, if you would.
One is to get help from these countries for this place, for Iraq. The other one is to help us to deal with this Iranian behavior, to try to see what we can do to make these folks realize that they have got to be -- they have aspirations to be somebody big. You have got to act like -- like a big boy.
COOPER: Well, as we said, the vote today in the Senate was close, 50-48. And the debate leading up to it was fierce.
As the Senate debated, the bloodshed continues in Iraq, of course. At least 70 people died today in attacks today across the country.
CNN's Michael Ware has been on the ground in Iraq since the war began. He joins me now from Baghdad.
Michael, earlier today, Republican Senator John McCain told Wolf Blitzer that the new strategy is working in Iraq, and, in some parts of Baghdad outside the Green Zone, Americans can walk around.
I want to play you part of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE SITUATION ROOM")
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I know for a fact of much of the success we're experiencing, including the ability of Americans in many parts -- not all. we have got a long, long way to go. we have only got two of the five brigades there -- to go into some neighborhoods in Baghdad in a secure fashion. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Is that true? You're on the ground there.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely not, Anderson.
Actually, the senator couldn't be further from the truth. I mean, the senator has been very solid on his Iraq strategy to this point. He's always been very cautious and very conservative when it comes to Iraq, warning people, despite the unpopularity, that the war needs more troops, not less, that we will have to stay longer, not shorter.
Yet, here, he's just gone way out on a limb. To suggest that out there, right now, are any streets where Americans could walk, without a Shia militia being tipped off, without a Sunni insurgency scooping you up, without al Qaeda snatching you, or without local gangs just seeing dollar signs and -- and taking you away, is ludicrous.
If he knows any part of this city where Americans can walk, then I would appreciate the senator coming and telling me that, and we will go and take that walk together.
He even suggested General Petraeus, the commander of all forces here, travels out almost daily without arms. Well, the American officers we spoke to were laughing about this. The general travels in a heavy, very well protected, multilayered bubble of security.
So, Senator McCain is way off base -- Anderson.
COOPER: But he's saying that two of the five U.S. brigades can travel in neighborhoods in a secure fashion. I mean, I guess that's open to interpretation what that means exactly, in a secure fashion.
What is your read on it?
WARE: Well, yes, there's two out of five of the U.S. brigades being sent for this surge operation are -- have arrived. The third is now in the process of arriving.
And, yes, where we can now send in thousands of troops throughout Baghdad and have them swirling about the city, it was very hard for them to do this before. Now they're actually staying in these neighborhoods. The direct result of that is that a particular type of violence is now down by as much as a quarter. That's sectarian violence.
Now, one of the big reasons for that is that the death squads and their facilitators are actually the police and the army forces themselves that the U.S. forces are with each and every night. So, the death squads are being kept off the streets almost literally.
But, at the same time, we're seeing violence displaced elsewhere, north of the city, further away from the city. So that brigades can move through the city is nothing new, nor is that revelatory, nor does that -- does that really tell us what Senator McCain would like us to believe it says.
COOPER: The Iraqi government says that the number of civilians killed in the capital was down by more than 80 percent. They say the number of kidnappings down by 90 percent, and a third fewer roadside bombs and car bombings. Do you buy that?
WARE: Yes, I do. I think a lot of those figures can be correct. Whether they're to those degrees, it's hard to say.
So far, the military is playing it very close to their chest. Here on the ground, they send a much, much more restrained message. They're saying: There's lots of good initial indications, but we believe it's far too early to tell yet.
I mean, one of the big things that commanders say to us is that: We know that many of the Shia militias are laying low, that the Sunni insurgents in Baghdad are doing what we -- they do every time we have a major offensive. They're laying low, or they have moved outside, such as to the province of Diyala, north of the capital, where violence has picked up so much since the surge began that General Petraeus has been forced to send a battalion of Strykers to that troubled province.
So, it's very hard to tell what's going on at this sage or to read too much into it long term -- Anderson.
COOPER: So, just to be clear, Michael, I mean, you have been covering this war since 2003. You don't live in the Green Zone. You live in a location outside the Green Zone.
Is there any place in Baghdad that you would go by yourself without security, and stay for more than, say, 10 or 15 minutes in one spot on the street?
WARE: No. I'm afraid to say there isn't.
It's very difficult moving about this city now at the best of times. Westerners have to move in very well protected ways. It's hard to move unnoticed. No one would miss you on the streets. They would spot you immediately. And the attention -- the attention that you would attract on these streets would be fatal.
COOPER: Michael Ware, appreciate it. You have taken a lot of risks over the years. Appreciate it, Michael. Thanks.
Still in the region, a massive American naval buildup in the Persian Gulf, the largest since the war in Iraq began, two carrier battle groups, 100 warplanes, 10,000 men and women conducting maneuvers not far from the spot where Iranian forces seized 15 British sailors and marines just four days ago.
A Navy spokesman says the exercises have nothing to do with the incident, but he declined to say just when they were planned.
Meantime, British Prime Minister Tony Blair today had a warning for Iran. The crisis, he said, will -- quote -- "move into a different phase if diplomatic efforts fail to get the men back."
We move to the Bahamas now. And the Anna Nicole Smith saga continued there today. The coroner's inquest began looking into the death of her son, Daniel. We know that a lethal combination of drugs killed him. The question now for jurors, was it an accident, was it a suicide, or was there foul play?
As CNN's Rusty Dornin reports, it may be a while before any jury hears anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just one piece of the puzzle, and I don't think it's over yet.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nearly all the players were here, chased by reporters for every tidbit.
Virgie Arthur, Anna Nicole Smith's mother, came. She's not a witness at the inquest, but she would like to be.
QUESTION: Your expectations today, Virgie?
VIRGIE ARTHUR, MOTHER OF ANNA NICOLE SMITH: The right thing to be done.
QUESTION: And what is that?
DORNIN: Then there's Larry Birkhead, one of the men claiming to be the father of Anna Nicole's 6-month-old girl. He's a witness, but he's not quite sure why.
LARRY BIRKHEAD, EX-BOYFRIEND OF ANNA NICOLE SMITH: I'm just here to give information that might assist the courts in the inquest into Daniel's death.
QUESTION: How do you think you can do that, Larry?
QUESTION: Why don't you just stop for a second and talk to us (OFF-MIKE)
BIRKHEAD: You know, I don't know. It's up to the judge to see if I have to something that they think is worthwhile.
DORNIN: Birkhead has told CNN previously that he knew Daniel Smith had been experimenting with drugs. Doctors say an overdose of methadone and antidepressants killed Daniel last September.
The inquest was called to find out how it happened. Several witnesses from the hospital will testify. Chief Magistrate Roger Gomez says the first thing they will explain to the jury is just what happened when Daniel was found unconscious.
ROGER GOMEZ, CHIEF MAGISTRATE: Those who have been in attendance when Daniel came in, and those who would have tried to resuscitate him, and police photographers, and so on.
DORNIN: But the explanations didn't happen today. Soon after the proceedings began, Howard K. Stern's attorney, Wayne Munroe, asked that prospective jurors and the news media leave the courtroom -- his concerns: how jurors should be questioned and whether seven impartial jurors can be found in the Bahamas.
CNN has obtained the witness list. And, when the proceedings resume Thursday, it will include the man who owned the house where Anna Nicole and Howard Stern lived and where Stern still lives, the two nannies who cared for baby Dannielynn. Their attorney claims they overheard Anna Nicole blaming Stern for her son's death. There will be also be twos doctor who are expected to testify about the drugs found in Smith's body.
COOPER: Rusty, what -- what are always those witnesses going to do now?
DORNIN: Well, they're just going to either hang around, like -- Larry Birkhead, he had to actually head back to the United States. He said he was going back to decorate a nursery, of course referring to the custody battle he's having and the paternity suit over Dannielynn, Anna Nicole Smith's 6-month-old infant daughter.
The others, about 23 of them, live here in the Bahamas. They're hospital workers, that sort of thing. And there are folks from the United States. And, originally, they said they were going to interview them first, so that they could have a time set aside for that. But now it looks like it's up in the air. It's floating.
So, the -- the U.S. witnesses are all doing it voluntarily. So, whether they testify or not is questionable.
COOPER: All right. Rusty Dornin, thanks.
When 360 returns, we will have more on Daniel Smith's death and all the questions still out there.
COOPER (voice-over): Daniel Smith's final days, hours and minutes, what went wrong? How could a 20-year-old die in a hospital of something hospitals treat all the time? As the inquest begins, we will talk with the renowned pathologist who did the autopsy.
Also: polygamist Warren Jeffs, the latest on his day in court. And wait until you hear what he said about his claim to be a prophet when he thought no one was listening.
COOPER: Anna Nicole Smith and her son, Daniel, now buried side by side in the Bahamas -- the inquest into Daniel Smith's death just getting under way today.
Forensic pathologist Cyril Wecht performed an autopsy on Daniel Smith.
He joined me earlier, along with Court TV's Lisa Bloom.
COOPER: Lisa, at this point, what are the main unanswered questions point regarding Daniel Smith's death?
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV ANCHOR: Well, the biggest question, I think, is, where did he get the drugs that killed him? Apparently, only one was prescribed to him. Where did the others come from?
If he was an addict, why didn't he have large quantities of these drugs in his suitcase, in his clothing? And he just didn't. So, I think that's the biggest question in the inquest: Where did they come from? Who gave it to him?
COOPER: Dr. Wecht, in terms of methadone, is it possible to determine whether the methadone that Daniel Smith took was the same batch as -- as the methadone that Anna Nicole Smith had?
DR. CYRIL WECHT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: No.
Once it's inside the system, Anderson, there is no way to differentiate chemically between these products.
COOPER: Is there any way to tell -- you said it -- methadone comes in different forms. Is there any way to tell if, you know, Daniel Smith took a pill of methadone, and so did Anna Nicole Smith, or if she took -- took -- took liquid. Can you differentiate even something as broad as that?
WECHT: No. Those drugs which can be taken in different forms, once inside the body, are then metabolized, unless you find the remnants of a capsule or a tablet. So, no, there is no way.
COOPER: And, Lisa, this is significant, because, as you said, it boils down to where did he get this methadone from. Did someone give it to him with nefarious purposes...
COOPER: ... nefarious purposes, or did he take it from his mom's stash, or did he bring it with him?
BLOOM: Yes, exactly.
And keep in mind, we have all seen that photograph of a big bottle of liquid methadone that was found in Anna Nicole's refrigerator. So, did it come from Anna Nicole's stash, as you say? Did it come from Howard K. Stern? Did he bring it with him? Those are the unanswered questions.
COOPER: Dr. Wecht, you performed the autopsy, the second autopsy, on -- on Daniel Smith.
First of all, why was a second one performed? Who -- who requested it, and why?
WECHT: Well, second autopsies, Anderson, in medical legal cases are not rare at all.
They're done because people, somebody -- families, usually -- aren't happy. In the case of Daniel Smith, I can't tell you exactly. I don't go into a Q&A session with somebody when they call me.
But I think that, given the fact that the death was in the Bahamas, they had no way of knowing who was going to be doing the autopsy, et cetera. It was, of course, a great shock, a 20-year-old boy in good health. So, it really was quite understandable.
COOPER: Dr. Wecht, in terms of the autopsy you did on Daniel Smith, was there anything suspicious, in terms of the cause of death? What actually was the cause of death?
WECHT: No, there was nothing suspicious, externally, not a mark on the body, no injection sites, no evidence of physical violence or trauma, and nothing at all.
And, then inside, although the organs and tissues, of course, had been removed from their moorings in situ, and dissected, they were still all present. The answer to your question is, there was nothing abnormal.
What killed him were the three drugs acting in concert. The methadone would have been the most important, and the two antidepressants Zoloft and Lexapro, which also exert a deleterious effect on the cardiovascular system, the central nervous system.
I think, in the case of Daniel Smith, we will never be able to prove it, because, once a person dies, you cannot see a functional or physiological entity or change.
COOPER: Lisa, in terms of this inquest, you know, the whole cast of characters is down there, Virgie Arthur, the mom, Larry Birkhead.
BLOOM: Howard Stern.
COOPER: Howard K. Stern.
Is Howard K. Stern the -- the prime -- the most important witness in -- in this inquest?
BLOOM: Well, think about it. There were three people there when Daniel died. Two of them are now dead, Danna -- Daniel and Anna Nicole. So, Howard Stern is the only one living who can talk about what happened in that room.
I spoke to Howard's attorney on my show today on Court TV. And she said he absolutely, 100 percent denies that he ever gave Daniel a drug. Also, he denies that Anna Nicole ever gave Daniel any drugs. So, he got them from some other source -- that's Howard K. Stern's story.
COOPER: Dr. Wecht, do we know exactly when Daniel collapsed? Or -- or -- I mean, did somebody witness him actually collapsing?
Anderson, the three of them were in the room. They had all fallen asleep. And, at some time early in the morning, when Howard and Anna Nicole awoke -- and I'm not sure which one first -- they saw Daniel there kind of sitting on -- on a chair, and it was apparent that he was dead.
Cardiopulmonary resuscitation was undertaken immediately, because it was a hospital setting, to no avail.
So, it happened there. The three of them, as Lisa says correctly, were in the room. And nobody knows. It's -- it's a mystery. Exactly when did he die, we do not know that...
COOPER: And -- and, Lisa, finally, in terms of...
WECHT: ... except it was in the wee hours -- wee hours of the morning.
COOPER: Right, wee hours...
WECHT: Wee hours of the morning.
COOPER: Wee hours of the morning.
WECHT: We know that.
COOPER: Lisa, in terms of the paternity tests, when do we find out whether the baby is Larry Birkhead's?
BLOOM: Nobody knows the answer to that question. Number one, there's a gag order in that proceeding.
In the inquest, it's completely open. Press can go in, and we can find out what is happening -- completely different in the paternity case. It's a closed proceeding, and there's a gag order, so nobody will talk.
What we have heard is that a DNA test has already been done on the baby, has not been done on Howard K. Stern. And, after that, it's anyone's guess as to when the baby issue is going to be resolved.
COOPER: No date on that?
BLOOM: No date, as far as I know.
COOPER: All right. BLOOM: As far as I know, no.
COOPER: Lisa Bloom, thanks very much.
BLOOM: Thank you.
COOPER: Dr. Wecht, appreciate your expertise. Thank you, sir.
WECHT: Thank you. Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Well, just ahead tonight: a public spanking on Capitol Hill, as part of "Raw Politics" tonight.
Plus: a priest's confession. He admits he's addicted to sex and stole from his flock to pay for prostitutes. And now he's about to get a big surprise -- our investigation coming up on 360.
COOPER: And we have breaking news to report.
You are looking at a bus that has been taken by apparently two armed men, according to the Associated Press. Reports out of the Philippines in Manila are that gunmen have seized the bus you're seeing on the left-hand side of your screen. They are claiming to hold 32 schoolchildren, as well as two teachers hostage -- this, again, according to the Associated Press.
The situation is unfolding near city hall in Manila. You can see they -- there are blinds over the windows of the bus. Occasionally, we have gotten to see the faces of some children, as well as, according to the Associated Press, some children waving at one point.
The gunmen, apparently, there are two of them, reportedly armed with an Uzi, a pistol, as well as two grenades. Now, Reuters has reported that these men were being chased by police after a failed holdup, and that, while being chased, they stormed this bus near Manila city hall.
The bus, according to Reuters, has been surrounded by an elite police team. Negotiations were in progress. There was a quote from the head of the National Capital Region Police Command, who said, hopefully, we can convince the hostage-takers -- I have got instructions.
There, you see one of the children on board this bus. There is the face of a child, as well as it looks like one adult somewhere.
According, again, to the Associated Press, there are two teachers on board this bus, in addition to two gunmen. Thirty-two children, in all, are being held hostage.
These pictures are now on tape, but the situation is still happening live. These are the best images that we have been able to see, where you actually see some movement on the bus. Obviously, those blinds were put up to make it more difficult for police and any onlookers to try to get a sense of what is going on in the bus. It's a very difficult hostage situation for police to deal with, a limited number of entries onto the bus.
That's a live picture now. Police have cordoned off this entire area in Manila, again near city hall in Manila, and are trying to deal with this. It is obviously a very delicate situation, as I said, very limited entries and exits off the bus.
And, without a clear visual sense of what's going on inside, it is very hard to figure out how to proceed -- again, the Associated Press reporting that there are two people on board this bus, holding at least 32 children and two teachers hostage.
It's not known if they have any demands. It's not known what sort of demands they may be making, though it does not appear that this was a planned event. It seems as if they were on the run from police, and have taken this bus sort of in a -- in a desperate attempt to -- to make some sort of deal, and, I guess, get away.
We're going to continue to follow this situation and bring you events, as warranted, over the course of this next hour-and-a-half.
Back here in the U.S., with 20 months to go until the presidential election, a new poll shows that one of the Democratic front-runners has some serious negatives to overcome.
That's where our "Raw Politics" segment begins tonight.
CNN's Joe Johns joins us from Washington -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, Senator Hillary Clinton apparently has her work cut out for her in that run for the White House.
Half of adults in the U.S. say they would not vote for her, according to a Harris Interactive poll. And that includes 21 percent of Democrats. Those more likely to have negative feelings toward the senator include married women and people over the age of 62.
Pesky facts keep getting in the way. The FBI got a spanking on Capitol Hill today -- the bureau's director, Robert Mueller, answering questions and taking the blame for reports that FBI agents are taking shortcuts. And, when Mueller was asked about agents giving inaccurate data for surveillance warrants in national security cases, his answer got the top Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee fired up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: The affidavits are exceptionally long. You can have thousands of facts in there. And mistakes may be made, although we do our level best to assure that there is no mistake in an affidavit.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R-PA), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE RANKING MEMBER: I'm not impressed by your assertion that there are thousands of facts. That's your job. That's the FBI agent's job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: Meanwhile, the other little face-off between law enforcement and the Senate got some clarity today. Democrat Senator Jim Webb of Virginia went on the record to explain how a trusted aide of his named Phillip Thompson ended up getting stopped by police with the senator's loaded pistol at a checkpoint in the Capitol complex.
Bottom line, Webb says he was getting on a plane and left the gun with his staff.
SEN. JIM WEBB (D), VIRGINIA: I have never carried a gun in the Capitol complex, and I did not give the weapon to Phillip Thompson. And that's all. We had -- we had three cars on Friday that were being moved about because of my trip. And that is probably a reason that this inadvertent situation developed.
JOHNS: Phillip Thompson pleaded not guilty to a felony charge of carrying a pistol without a license. And that's "Raw Politics" -- Anderson.
COOPER: Joe, thanks very much.
From "Raw Politics" to religion. Up next, the words of a self- proclaimed polygamist prophet. Word from jail that may shake the faith of his followers. They sure surprised us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER (voice-over): Polygamist Warren Jeffs, the latest on his day in court. And wait till you hear what he said about his claim to be a prophet when he thought no one was listening.
Also, a priest with big problems.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you get the money to pay these prostitutes?
REV. JIM JACOBSEN, RETIRED PRIEST: I had money from donations to the church.
COOPER: And that wasn't all. Just ask Don Slats. The father is his father, and what he's alleging goes way beyond priestly sex addiction. Tonight on 360.
COOPER: Tonight, the polygamist leader Warren Jeffs is back in his jail. Earlier today he was inside a courtroom for a pivotal hearing, and whether behind bars or before the judge, it seems Jeffs wanted to talk. CNN's Gary Tuchman was in the court.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A puzzling moment in the Utah courtroom involving a gaunt, frail-looking polygamist leader, Warren Jeffs. Jeffs, sitting on the left with his lawyers, was stone silent for eight hours. The court operated video system did not provide tight images of him, but all of a sudden he popped up and said...
WARREN JEFFS, POLYGAMIST LEADER: May I have the court's attention?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry, Mr. Jeffs, you may not, sir.
JEFFS: I have a matter I'd like to clear up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Jeffs, your counsel can take care of matters for you.
COOPER: It's hard to hear, but Jeffs haltingly said he had a matter he'd like to clear up. We still don't know what it was. He wasn't allowed to talk. But it has been a day of legal defeats for Jeffs, as both sides prepare for trial.
More than 20 of Jeffs' supporters drove 40 miles from their polygamist community on the Utah-Arizona border to see the man they believe has a direct line to God.
(on camera) Do you still consider Warren a prophet?
(voice-over) As usual, Jeffs' followers ignored outsiders and a relevant question because of this development. A source on the prosecution side says Jeffs, in jail without bond, was heard saying he's a sinner, not a prophet. The information may have been released to convince followers to stop their hero worship. But it didn't affect these followers, who stood in devotion when Jeffs walked into the court.
Jeffs is charged with arranging the marriage of a 14-year-old girl, who testified off-camera at a previous hearing about her wedding ceremony with her 19-year-old first cousin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I honestly just wanted to die, because I was so scared.
TUCHMAN: Jeffs is accused of being an accomplice to rape, because the underage girl had sex with an adult man. Jeffs' lawyers told the judge charges should be dismissed partly because...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Jeffs was not aware that unconsensual sex -- sexual relations were taking place between these two.
TUCHMAN: But the judge denied the request, as well as a request to change the trial location from this small down of St. George, Utah, to more metropolitan Salt Lake City.
But the judge did say local media coverage was not fair to Jeffs and that he might decide to incur delays and expenses and still move the trial if he can't get a fair jury.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that may well be laid at the feet of those who exceed reasonable press coverage.
TUCHMAN: In Jeffs' windswept hometown of Hilldale, Utah, not much interest in talking, either.
(on camera) Do you still consider Warren Jeffs your prophet? If you don't mind me asking you, ma'am?
(voice-over) And near the town, a makeshift sign put up by supporters as Jeffs remains in a jail 30 minutes away.
COOPER: You know, you've seen Warren Jeffs in person several times now. His demeanor seems to be dramatically different now.
TUCHMAN: Much different, Anderson, than when we last saw him about three minutes (ph) ago. He was almost unresponsive at times. He seemed impaired, and at one point, we actually saw him drooling.
There were some light moments in the court. Some of the supporters were laughing at times, and Jeffs had no reaction at all. And that's why it was so startling when he popped up. We didn't know what he was going to say. And to this moment we still don't know.
We asked the attorneys afterwards, "What he was going to say? Do you know?" And they wouldn't tell us if they did know. They wouldn't tell us anything at all.
COOPER: Gary Tuchman, it remains a fascinating case. Thanks very much.
Want to bring you up to date on this breaking news story we continue to follow. Thirty-four people being held hostage right now by two gunmen. Let's take a look at the video.
The bus you see there on the left-hand side of your screen, you see in this video right here, you're about to see the face of a small child. There's some 32 children.
If we take away that banner -- the shot moved. Thirty-two children, two school teachers, apparently, according to the Associated Press, being held hostage onboard this bus by two gunmen.
Joining us by phone right now is Byron Sage. He's an international hostage negotiator.
This has got to be one of the worst situations for police, Byron, dealing with a bus in which you can't even see what's going on inside. BYRON SAGE, INTERNATIONAL HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: That's absolutely correct. At a time like this, you have a very significantly heightened emotional state, both people that are trapped in the bus as well as those people that are obviously very concerned about their welfare.
COOPER: How do you go about trying to build a relationship, if that's what you try to do, with these hostage takers?
SAGE: Well, obviously, the key is going to be opening up a dialogue, a communication where you can quite literally determine the story within the story.
What led these people to seize this busload of individuals, did they know them previously, was it a specific target or a target of opportunity?
COOPER: What the Associated Press has reported, and that's what we're going on, also a Reuters report, is that this bus was taken hostage. These two men were being chased by police after a failed holdup and that they stormed this bus, which is near Manila city hall.
Seems to be kind of a target of opportunity or target of desperation, and obviously, Byron, dealing with desperate men, it makes it all the more difficult.
SAGE: The most critical thing now is going to be patience on the part of the -- of everybody involved. The authorities, the people inside, and obviously the hostage takers.
As you can -- as you try to build a situation where you can buy more and more time, it allows the people's emotions to start to come down, and hopefully, rational thought will prevail.
COOPER: It's got to be difficult, though. You know, I don't know if this bus is running. I don't know if the motor's on. I don't know if the air condition is on.
But, you know, inside a bus with 32 kids under extreme stress, and then trying to, on top of that, deal with two hostage takers, how do you try to calm things down?
SAGE: That's -- that's going to be the -- an incredible task that the negotiators will have to take on here.
What they've -- as more and more time passes, it's kind of a catch 22. The emotionality, hopefully, will begin to subside. The individuals -- actually, the best thing that could happen, frankly, is that this is the type of situation that apparently is unfolding, and that is these are criminals, apparently, that were engaged in armed robbery. They were attempting to flee. This is a legitimate hostage situation, where they've seized this busload of people as leverage.
That's actually one of the better things in a hostage barricade- type situation that you'd almost hope for, if you can understand where I'm coming from here. If this was a political terrorist related type incident, those are much, much more difficult than something like this.
COOPER: But we're seeing for the first time a different view on this bus. We see a woman, presumably one of the teachers, holding onto one of the kids and gesticulating, sort of making the phone message, I guess indicating to authorities to call somebody.
There was also a sign in the bus. I don't know if that sign existed before this bus was taken hostage or if somebody wrote on it. We'll try to -- there you see her sort of making a phone message.
The child appears relatively calm, at least does not appear to be screaming or crying. And there's a message in English, which I'm trying to make out. It says -- I see the word "teacher" there. We'll try to maybe later on get a freeze frame of this and try to analyze what that is.
Again, we don't know if that was a message put up earlier or if that was -- you know, if this was some sort of a tour bus and that was a message that was already in the windows. We'll try to verify that.
What we do understand, though, that some sort of discussions between the police and the hostage takers has been going on. And certainly, this video, which was taken earlier -- not a live picture here -- would seem to indicate that some sort of contact has been made.
I guess for hostage negotiators, you like to control the scene as much as possible. You want to control who's coming and who's going, who gets near the bus, who talks. You only want, what, one person talking to these people?
SAGE: Usually, you would have what's referred to as a primary negotiator, would be the person on the line or over the radio. In this instance, it would appear that it's cellular phone traffic.
You want to try to have that individual be able to build some sort of rapport, even if it's just by listening to what this person has to say as they're venting frustration, any number of things.
The fact that it appears -- I'm watching your coverage as we speak. And the fact that it appears that the hostage takers are actually facilitating establishing the communication link is a very good sign.
But, again, you need to -- you need to hope and pray, frankly, that the authorities will be patient, that they will -- will not escalate the situation by bringing in an extraordinary demonstration of force and just kind of let this situation simmer.
One of the -- one of the things that they're probably going to be faced with, obstacles and potential threat is whether or not these individuals demand to go mobile. If they start moving that crisis site, the bus, then the -- it could turn into a very difficult situation.
COOPER: And again, we don't know if the bus driver is on the bus or if the keys are on the bus. We don't have that information. There's a lot at this point we don't know.
Just to remind viewers, this is happening in Manila in the Philippines near the city hall in Manila. We became aware of this about 15 or 20 minutes ago. Thirty-two children, two teachers and two armed men on a bus. They have taken over this bus. Some sort of discussions with police are underway.
The situation is very fluid. It is happening now. We're going to continue to follow it. We're with been talking to Byron Sage, international hostage negotiator, retired from the FBI.
Byron, if you can't stick around with us. We'll continue to follow this over the next hour in 15 minutes if not longer.
Thanks very much, Byron. We'll talk to you again soon.
Still ahead on the program tonight, more on the death of Daniel Smith. More on Anna Nicole Smith's, really, the love of her life. Everyone says he died the same way that she did.
But was his death an accident? We know it was an overdose. The question is what caused it? Was it an accident or something else? New details in the investigation coming up.
And a priest addicted to sex. Even used church money to buy it. How do we know? Well, he admits that part of it. And that's not the only surprise. Our investigation, next on 360.
COOPER: Tonight, the story of a priest who says he is addicted to sex. He also admits to stealing from his flock to pay for prostitutes. And that is not all. He's telling his story now decades later, because he has to.
CNN's Drew Griffin reports.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the taped deposition of a retired priest under oath, a man compelled by law to tell the ugly truth about his past.
Father Jim Jacobsen was sent to minister to people in remote Alaskan villages in the 1960s, virtually unsupervised. Through this testimony, he reveals what his superiors are now saying about Father Jim. The 83-year-old Jesuit priest is a sexual addict.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So your testimony then was that your best estimate was that you had five sexual affairs while you were in Alaska?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that still your testimony today?
JACOBSEN: I would say maybe seven. I would change it to seven.
GRIFFIN: Father Jacobsen's past probably would have stayed secret if this man, Don Slats, had not come forward. He opened the door on the priest's affairs, his alleged rapes, thefts, and his four abandoned children.
DON SLATS, JACOBSEN'S BIOLOGICAL SON: He didn't even know who I was, from my understanding, he didn't even recognize my mom. That's what happens then you turn into a (expletive deleted) monster. I'm sorry. If you're too busy raping people, you can't even recognize their faces anymore.
GRIFFIN: This is the story of how a predatory priest was turned loose on a needy people and how the church failed to act.
You heard Father Jacobsen admit to seven affairs. He also used money donated to the Jesuits to pay for sex.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many times?
JACOBSEN: I have no idea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't you have to pay prostitutes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you get the money to pay these prostitutes?
JACOBSEN: I had money from donations to the church from -- I got money from the bishops to run the parish.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You used the church's money to buy prostitutes? Is that right?
JACOBSEN: Well, it was -- it was the Jesuits' money. It was money that was given to me for, you know, the work I was doing.
GRIFFIN: Records show the Society of Jesus, the Jesuit priests, knew a lot about Jacobsen, even before he was ordained. Their own doctor discovered Jacobsen had been treated for gonorrhea. Jacobsen admitted he had promiscuity issues.
By 1967, Jesuit documents described serious moral charges made against the priest by a village leader in Alaska. Jacobsen's bishop asks for an investigation. At the time, the charges were discounted, blamed on local politics.
But Jacobsen remained in Alaska another decade. In 1977, his superiors ordered Jacobsen to get help for his particular problem. They relocated him to Oregon, where he became a chaplain for three state prisons, was paid a salary and even earned a state pension.
But he couldn't stop himself. As late as 1992, memos from the Society of Jesus report Jacobsen was involved in an affair with another woman in Oregon. And then finally, Don Slats came forward. He is a little lighter skinned than other native Alaskans in the tiny village he grew up. As he grew up, his nickname was Little Preacher.
(on camera) When they drew blood for you to test the DNA, and they sent it off to a lab, were you --were you hoping for a different result? Were you hoping...
SLATS: No way. I just wanted -- I just wanted everyone to be loved.
GRIFFIN: To be loved?
(voice-over) Growing up, Don Slats knew he was different than other kids in his Alaskan village. There were cruel jokes. He felt like an outcast. But he asked only one time about his family secret.
SLATS: When I was a teenager, I asked my mom, you know, because there's different things about me. My eyes were lighter. Different color hair was coming out of my face. You know, I would look at it in the mirror.
And so I asked my mom, and I've never questioned my mother, you know. And, you know, she told me that yes, you might have another father, you know, but this is your family, you know. It just went as far as that. You know?
GRIFFIN: Now in his 30s, Don Slats has filed a novel lawsuit against Father Jim Jacobsen and the Society of Jesus.
DNA testing shows without a doubt Father Jacobsen is his biological father. Slats is suing for years of unpaid child support for his own childhood.
Despite her shame, his mother has also revealed another secret. She claims Jacobsen raped her repeatedly. Other village women have come forward to say Jacobsen raped them.
As for Jacobsen, he denies the rapes but admits he can't even remember Don Slats' mother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yet you had sex with her, didn't you?
JACOBSEN: I must have had. I believe -- I know that I didn't force her. I don't remember any particular time that I had sexual relationships with her, but I'm positive I didn't force her or anybody else.
GRIFFIN: In fact, Jacobsen, in his deposition, partly blames the women. Women, he says, who knew he felt isolated, lonely. And when night fell, there would be the knock, he says, on his door.
JACOBSEN: There would be, like 9:30 at night, the village light plant would be turned off. So you just had -- which meant that everybody was at home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So she was the initiator? She started -- she initiated the sex?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did?
JACOBSEN: Well, it was a -- it was a -- it was like she flirted with me and I flirted with her.
GRIFFIN: Jim Jacobsen now lives here, a retirement home for priests on the campus of Gonzaga University in Spokane, Washington, where according to his superiors, he's under close supervision. Jacobsen refused to talk to CNN.
But he did ask Father John Whitney, who now heads the Society of Jesus for Oregon Province, about Father Jim Jacobsen's case.
(on camera) How did this happen? How did this guy happen for so long?
FATHER JOHN WHITNEY, SOCIETY OF JESUS, OREGON PROVINCE: You know, if I -- if I had the answer to that, I don't know. It's an incredibly difficult -- I find it -- some of the revelations that are coming out in the public are just coming to me, as well.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Whitney admits mistakes were made, warnings overlooked. Jacobsen was even confessing his sins to fellow priests in Alaska, and yet none alerted superiors.
WHITNEY: And so he was allowed, and I make no excuses for it. I don't find -- this a difficult job for me, because I find it hard to unconscionable that people weren't more proactive, more active in this.
But I think nobody directly was coming forward saying, "This happened to me" until far later.
GRIFFIN: The Jesuits have just ordered to settle Don Slats' lawsuit. The nearly $2 million settlement includes life-time counseling for him, his mother, another biological son of the priest, and for another woman who claims she was raped.
In his deposition, the priest wishes he had been more closely supervised and offers this to his victims.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, we're tape recording and videotaping this deposition. And it's possible that your children and grandchildren could see it one of these days. Is there anything you want to say to them?
JACOBSEN: Well, I'm sorry that they were put in this position by my actions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there anything you want them to know or remember about you?
JACOBSEN: Well, I'm sorry that they have to know that I'm a priest who didn't -- religious -- didn't live up to his vows and his obligations, as a priest in their village.
GRIFFIN: Don Slats says in the far away place he grew up, the place the church sent Father Jacobsen, they were all just trusting lambs.
SLATS: They understand that us native people, and the villages hold them up to a pedestal, that they're higher than any authority. They're -- they sit at the right hand of God. That's what you're taught in catechism.
GRIFFIN: Don Slats left the Catholic Church when he was 13.
Drew Griffin, CNN, Anchorage, Alaska.
COOPER: Unbelievable story. You can read more about the story on our blog. Go to CNN.com/360blog.
Straight ahead, more on this breaking story we continue to follow: 32 children and two teachers being held hostage on a bus in the Philippines. That is the bus there.
We have an FBI hostage negotiator on the line and crews all around the world trying to find out more about what is going on. A break first. You're watching 360. We'll be right back.
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