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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Steroids and Major League Baseball; Democrats Faced Off Today
Aired December 13, 2007 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER: Tonight, steroids and major league baseball. Big business, big money and the very big names linked to performance enhancing drugs. Who is involved, who gets hurt, will anyone actually take responsibility? Or will everyone make a little noise then sweep things under the rug? It has happened before. All the angles tonight.
Also ahead tonight, the Democrats faced off today. Their final debate before the Iowa caucus; the race too close to call. The attacks are flying back and forth. Tonight we're looking at how crucial undecided voters are finally making up their minds.
And later, outrage over what happened to an African-American service man who was locked up for a crime he did not commit. The army threw him out of the service. Took his G.I. benefits. Well 63 years later, they sent him a check for - get this - $725. Does that sound fair to you. We're keeping them honest.
And the latest on the icy, snowy mess now blanketing a big chunk of the country.
First though, baseball and steroids. No kids crying, "Say it isn't so," this time. More like, "Well, duh?" After years of watching skinny players turning into Neanderthals and 40-year-old pitchers throwing 100-mile-an-hour fastballs, there weren't a lot of Americans who were shocked today when George Mitchell submitted his 409-page report to Major League Baseball. Still the numbers of players named are staggering and so are the names.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: The details are damning. More than 70 former and current players have been linked to performance enhancing substances. The steroid scandal already has resulted in criminal charges against homerun king Barry Bonds. The report also discusses familiar allegations against Mark McGuire and admitted steroid use by Jason Giambi and Jose Canseco.
But the biggest bombshell name in the report is the pitcher known as "The Rocket", Roger Clemens who vehemently denied the allegations. Clemens, a seven-time young winner is presumed destined for the hall of fame. The report quotes his personal trainer as saying he injected Clemens with anabolic steroids and human growth hormone during his career as a Toronto Bluejay and New York Yankee.
Also named, Yankees pitcher Andy Petitte, Detroit outfielder Gary Sheffield and Houston short stop Miguel Tejada. Former senator George Mitchell who led the inquiry said drug use has been rampant in Major League Baseball for years.
GEORGE MITCHELL, MLB STEROID INVESTIGATOR: For more than a decade, there has been widespread illegal use of anabolic steroids and other performance enhancing substances by players in Major League Baseball, in violation of federal law and baseball policy.
COOPER: In fact, it's only been a violation of baseball policy since 2002. The findings were based on a two-year investigation in which more than 700 people were interviewed. Many of the allegations were based on the testimony of a former Mets employee as well as Clemens' personal trainer.
The report calls for stiffer penalties, independent and more frequent drug tests and educating young players about the health risk from using steroids.
MITCHELL: The reality that hundreds of thousands of our children are using them. Every American, not just baseball fans, ought to be shocked into action by that disturbing truth.
COOPER: As for the sins of the fast, Mitchell's verdict is one of forgiveness.
MITCHELL: The commissioner should give the players and everyone else the chance to make a fresh start. We're all human; we all make mistakes.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: A short time later baseball commissioner Bud Selig reacted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUD SELIG, MLB COMMISSIONER: I'm going to review each one of these case by case because I feel that frankly that's a by product of this investigation that I need to address. His report is a call to action. And I will act.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Exactly what that means remains to be seen. That sounds like Inspector Reno in "Casablanca" saying he is shocked to find out there's gambling on at Ricks Casino.
Commissioner Selig also said that he had hoped for better cooperation from the players, but understands the possible legal ramifications that prevented them from talking. That's one big footnote to the investigation. There are others.
We want to look at the legal angles now. Barry Bonds is already in hot water. The question is will anyone new be charged as as result of the report.
Joining us now is CNN senior legal analyst and baseball fan himself, Jeffrey Toobin. What about that will anyone be charged? And look at all these guys out there shooting stuff up.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I think the criminal aspect of this is very likely to end with Barry Bonds because a lot of what he talked about was in the late-90s. The statute of limitations has run on it. And there are also difficulties of proof. If you have to worry about a criminal case beyond a reasonable doubt --
COOPER: So people are saying, "Well look what's in the past is in the past. Let's move on." That's not just trying to put a good public relation spin and help baseball out by saying, "Move on." The statute of limitations may be done.
TOOBIN: And there are difficulties of proof. The tremendous amount of his report, the new stuff in his report is based on this former Mets clubhouse employee and Roger Clemens and Andy Petitte's former personal trainer. I mean those two guys are responsible for most of the new information. It's very tough to make a criminal case based on one person.
COOPER: It's pretty amazing that they had a guy who is selling drugs, steroids in the locker room as an employee of the Mets organization and the trainer who is hired by the Yankees, when Roger Clemens, his performance starts to dip they hire him as a strength coach and all of a sudden everything shoots back up.
These guys must know. The management must know.
TOOBIN: It's a horrifying story. And I have to say -- maybe it's because I'm naive. I'm a baseball fan. I am shocked by this. This is not just the Casablanca. I am shocked that Roger Clemens --
COOPER: But Selig the commissioner has been told about this for years. I mean different stories about, Sports Illustrated, New York Times.
TOOBIN: The level of detail in the report is so extraordinary. You can track Roger Clemens career. He really took a dive in the mid- 90s. And then he goes to Toronto, and this guy gets hooked up in his life and he starts getting the shots apparently in his buttocks.
His career takes off. It starts to dip again. The Yankees hire him as his personal trainer. He wins the cy young award again. It is an extraordinary story of how these steroids really work.
COOPER: Working for "60 Minutes" I discovered a doctor in Colombia, South Carolina who's prescribing steroids to football players. And you can track the shipments, you can track it before big baseball games, before the Superbowl in this case; before big baseball games.
It's remarkable but I can't believe that Commissioner selig is saying we didn't know to full extent of it.
TOOBIN: It's clear that the players' association knew, the clubs knew. In 1998, the whole country loved that Mark MCGUIRE and Sammy Sosa were having this wonderful battle for the home run crowd. Everybody was rooting for them and everybody looked away.
The only thing Selig can do at this point is he has got to deal with the record book. And he's got to deal with the hall of fame.
Are these people's records really going stand? And are they going to go in the hall of fame? And if you think about Pete Rose, who's been kept out of the hall of fame for gambling which had no impact on the games, clearly these steroids have huge impact.
If he's serious, he's going to keep them out of the hall of fame.
COOPER: All right Jeffrey, thanks. Appreciate it. More now on the question of accountability, will baseball discipline players or won't it. Will the players' union permit tougher drug testing or not.
No one's exactly surprised that there's drug use in baseball. Have we at least reached a turning point or will everyone simply go back to big business as usual? CNN's Gary Tuchman tonight is keeping them honest.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You remember the feel good sports story of 1998, Mark McGuire busting Roger single season homerun record? His name looms large in the Mitchell report. And the ageless pitcher Roger Clemens, his name is also prominently mentioned. Rumors of steroids used in baseball were rampant for years.
DONALD FEHR, MLB PLAYERS ASSOCIATION: Perhaps we the owners could have taken these steps sooner. For my part, in hind site, that seems obvious.
TUCHMAN: But what really kept the Players' Union and the Commissioners office from cracking down? Critics say one thing -- money. For the owners, power baseball sells. More home runs hit means more tickets sold. For the players, the calculus is just as simple. Performance sells, better play means a bigger contract.
MITCHELL: Everyone involved in baseball, commissioners, club officials, player's association, players share responsibility. I can't be any clearer than that.
TUCHMAN: The baseball commissioner also says in hindsight, he wishes he did more.
SELIG: His report is a call to action. And I will act.
TUCHMAN: Everybody talks a good game about wanting baseball to be steroid-free. When Senator Mitchell invited all the implicated current players to meet with him, with almost no exception he says they refused. Too worried, says their union leader, that they could incriminate themselves.
COOPER: So Gary have any of the players now responded?
TUCHMAN: Roger Clemens is first one of the gate. His attorney actually released a statement saying that this was totally slanderous and his quote was that Roger Clemens vehemently denies these allegations.
We expect to hear from more players in the days to come. But what should be noted is these players all knew this investigation was going on. They knew they were being implicated. They had every opportunity to talk to the investigator, to talk to the public, they chose not to.
COOPER: All right, Gary thanks. By now you've heard the names and the allegations but the pictures really boggle the mind. Here's a look at Roger Clemens before, back in the 1980s and now. Now here he is, 20 decades, a few pounds and -- allegedly a few injections later.
Now Jose Canseco, before he started juicing. He claims 85 percent of major leaguers do it by the way. And here he is looking very pumped up. But absolutely the epic before and after pictures of Barry Bonds back when he played for the Pittsburgh Pirates he had the body of a marathon runner. And there he is now; he looks like he was made by the same outfit that made Stonehenge. Barry Bonds before and after.
Speaking of big money, Yankee slugger Alex Rodriguez, A-rod, who is not accused of using drugs, signed a new contract today. The deal, 10 years, $275 million.
Still ahead, more on players who are taking performance enhancing drugs and what baseball can or should do about it.
From Clark Kent to the Incredible Hulk. Players and the steroid games they allegedly play. How is it done and who is it hurting? We're digging deeper talking to the guy who literally wrote the book about Barry Bonds' incredible transformation.
Plus Democrats talk, undecided voters listen.
Iowans reactions minute by minute to the issues, the attacks and the character of the candidates on stage, tonight on "360."
COOPER: Barry Bonds hitting his record breaking home run. He's a veritable building swinging a tree, smacking the ball. If you're a taught you can hit by sheer skill and practice alone, well, the fact is for all the talent major leaguers have, today's report suggests a lot of them also have more than a little help.
And other factors no one seems all that surprised. Digging Deeper with us tonight, we'll be talking with San Francisco Chronicle sports writer Lance Williams, co-author of "Game of Shadows." He's on Deadline, he'll be with us in just a moment.
With me now, former baseball all-star, an NFL all-pro, Brian Jordan. Brian, thanks for being with us. You spent 19 years on the field and in the locker room. Give us a sense of why some of these players are turning to these drugs, what's the pressure? BRIAN JORDAN, FORMER MLB PLAYER: Well, I'll tell you what it is, the pressure of going out there and performing and trying to make millions of dollars for your family. It's a lot of pressure to deal with on a daily basis, you have to go out there and perform 162 games. That's not an easy task.
COOPER: Is it spoken about though? Obviously management must know, the trainers must know. Is it openly talked about?
JORDAN: No, it's not. It's very private and individual. I mean that's the choice that that individual makes and he keeps it quiet. But I mean, as a player and former NFL player, where drug testing was always done and performed randomly, I always wondered why major league baseball didn't have a drug policy. And now I think you see why it's come back to bite major league baseball.
COOPER: But I mean you know when someone -- you go to any gym and you can kind of tell who's using something and who's not. I mean there's pimples on the back, there's all sorts of telltale signs. It's hard to imagine that you have the commissioner of baseball and all these guys saying we didn't know about it. It seems there was a financial incentive certainly for everybody to just turn the other way.
JORDAN: One thing you got to understand is major league baseball is a business. And I remember a commercial that Greg Maddox and my good friend Tom made, chicks love the long ball.
That was the theme and that brought fans back in the stadium and when Sammy Sosa and Mark MCGUIRE had that big home run push, it was great for baseball, great for fans and as a business they were making a lot of money.
COOPER: Senator Mitchell today is saying that he doesn't think these past offenses should be punished. What do you think?
JORDAN: I kind of agree. I think now you move forward and try to educate these young kids on what not to do and how you can be successful in major league baseball and doing it the natural way, working hard and just going out there and getting better every day and learning the game of baseball.
COOPER: What about the records? I mean these past and future Hall of Famers?
JORDAN: That's a tough question for Bud Selig to try to answer himself. Do you tarnish those records? The bottom line is you can use all the steroids you want but you still have to go out there and perform and do well and put that bat on the ball. As Barry Bonds broke the record, he did.
COOPER: It also does sets up this incredibly unrealistic expectation for kids out there who look up to those sports figures. There's a reason I think that steroid use is so rampant now in high schools. It is that all these kids look up to these guys and it's all just part of the game. JORDAN: That's why I'm very happy that congress did step in and put the pressure on major league baseball and the players association to make a decision, to implement the drug policy and really educate these young kids. Now for me, you use these guys who you have on the list to go around to schools and educate these young kids on what not to do.
I'm one from the old school where I watched Lyle Alzado lose his life at a very young age trying to play NFL football at a very high level. Steroids will break you down.
COOPER: Did you ever feel tempted? Did you ever feel that pressure?
JORDAN: No, I felt like I had enough natural ability. When I hit my career high 25 home runs, I mean that was great for me. And for me I'm not going to risk my life and my family, being away from my family on steroids or any other drugs.
COOPER: Brian, it's great to have you on the program. We really appreciate you taking the time. Brian Jordan, thanks so much for joining us.
We had planned on talking to Lance Williams. He's on a Deadline, we're not going to be able to talk to him tonight.
You can check out the "360" blog for more on the steroid report, a lot of people weighing in today. That's at cnn.com/360. that's where you'll find the "360" view where reporters and contributors give their take on the scandal.
Check it out throughout the day because they're blogging day and night. Again, that's cnn.com/360 and link to the blog.
Tonight millions are facing some very dangerous weather. For the details and a look at the other headlines, let's check in with Gary Tuchman with the 360 Bulletin.
TUCHMAN: Anderson, hello to you, good thing we're inside and not out there. New York City and much of the northeast is being slammed with a massive storm and it's not even winter yet. That's a week and a half away.
Some areas could get hit with more than a foot of snow. The forecast also calls for ice and freezing rain and that's even before the weekend's predicted nor'easter.
In Malibu tonight, three men are in custody accused of starting a wildfire last month. Investigators say two other arrests are imminent. Authorities believe the suspects started a campfire that raged out of control.
In Massachusetts, justice for a shocking misdiagnosis. A woman who was wrongly told she was infected with HIV was awarded $2.5 million today by a jury. For nine years 45-year-old audrey Serrano followed her doctor's advice and took powerful drugs to treat her for AIDS. The doctor who said she had HIV insisted Serrano receive standard care.
Finally what would you do with $4 million? If you were a London art agent you would buy a rare copy of a J.K. Rowling tome called "The Tales of Beedle the Bard." Only seven copies were ever made. The Harry Potter author not only hand wrote the book, she drew the pictures in it. By the way all the money is being given to charity.
Anderson, I wish I had one of those six other copies right now. I'll tell you that much.
COOPER: Stay there Gary. Next on "360," we have glow in the dark cats and one tough mouse. It's "What Were They Thinking?" tonight.
You play turning the tables on the predator. What is behind the picture? We're still not sure what the mouse was thinking, but we'll be right back.
COOPER: Time for "What Were They Thinking?" If it's high-tech weird stuff involving animals and robots, it's got to be from Japan. For reasons they only know Japanese researchers have altered the genetic code of mice to make them fearless of cats. Meet the real Mighty Mouse.
The mouse is actually going "mano a mano." The secret's in the DNA. If you ask me, maybe they had the mice seat through a marathon of Chuck Norris films or something. That's a very fearless little mouse.
On the flip side, cloned glow in the dark cats. I don't really believe they glow in the dark. But this time it's courtesy of -- look at that. They look like bats. They're from researchers in South Korea. They're looking for a way to treat genetic disorders in people. They discovered some of the cloned cats turned a fluorescent hue when exposed to ultraviolet light.
Please don't try this at home and if Peter is watching, please don't throw paint on me.
TUCHMAN: We just reported this, that Peter shouldn't be mad at us. But last night we had the cats with the wigs, and tonight we have these stories. Pretty weird stories we had the last couple of months with animals.
COOPER: Yes, I'm still trying to figure out the cats with the wigs, why cats need wigs. Gary thanks, we'll check in with you a little bit later on.
A quick note for a story we're working on for tomorrow. The dire situation facing some of humankind's closest relatives. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Mountain gorillas seem to have a sense of humor. And like to stare at those who stare at them. Gorilla see, gorilla do. You're only allowed one hour with gorillas to limit their risk of catching a disease.
Poachers are another problem. Two gorillas in this family have lost a hand because of snares. Even in Rwanda, poachers set snares, usually to catch antelope but gorillas get trapped in them too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We only got 700 mountain gorillas left on the planet. So far this year, at least ten have been shot to death. We'll be looking at what can be done to save them tomorrow on the program.
Up next, the Democrats face off one last time in Iowa before the caucuses. Tonight a look at the undecided voters; how they picked a candidate. See what they thought of the debate today.
Plus a huge honor for the "material girl." Madonna getting set to join the music elite.
Be back in just 60 seconds.
COOPER: Voters in Iowa heading to the polls right after the New Year. A new CNN/WMUR poll shows Barack Obama chipping away at Hillary Clinton's lead. In fact, the two are in a dead heat there. So at today's final Democratic face-off before Iowa, you might have expected a slug fest. What we got today was more of a love fest. Here's CNN's Candy Crowley with the Raw Politics.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Three weeks to go, the last week before the caucuses. You have never seen six such agreeable people. When Joe Biden defended himself for racially insensitive remarks, they backed him up.
They all want to roll back tax breaks for the rich and corporations.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And the tax policy that's not favoring big multinational corporations but instead favors the middle class and working people.
CROWLEY: And reconsidered trade agreements that have cost American jobs.
GOV. BILL RICHARDSON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We also have to make sure that China trades on an equitable basis with the United States. We ought to ban all these toys they are bringing in. We ought to ban some of the contaminated food they're bringing in.
CHRIS DODD, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't mind competing with someone but as long as we're all operating by the same rules. This is more of an adversarial relationship. It has to be identified as such.
CROWLEY: As for Hillary Clinton, whose husband shepherded the North American free trade agreement, she keeps stepping away, now promising the reform and improve it.
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will review every trade agreement. I'm going to ask for revisions that I think will actually benefit our country, particularly our workers, our exporters. We believe in trade, but we don't want to be the trade patsies of the world.
CROWLEY: And in a debate that focused on home and hearth issues, they all said that they want to bolster federal support for education.
SEN. JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You got to start kids at school earlier. You got to put them in smaller classes. The smaller the class the better the outcome. In order to do that you need 100,000 more teachers and you got to pay teachers.
CROWLEY: The differences were about who could get it done. Edwards, threw the bums out.
EDWARDS: Corporate power and greed has literally taken over the government. We need a president who's willing to take these powers on.
CROWLEY: Obama, the politics of hope.
BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We can only do it if we have the courage to change, if we can bring the country together.
CROWLEY: All of which gave Clinton an opening for the zinger of the day.
CLINTON: Everybody on this stage has an idea how to get change. Some believe you get change by demanding it. Some believe you get it by hoping for it. I believe you get it by working hard.
CROWLEY: Nobody slipped up, nobody struck out but there was a stumper. The question was how Obama bring about change with so many old Clinton advisers in his campaign.
OBAMA: You know, I am -- Hillary, I'm looking forward to you advising me as well.
CROWLEY: As per usual to the front-runners went the limelight, but the beauty of Iowa is that everybody gets a chance to speak.
RICHARDSON: What I like best about Iowans is you like underdogs and you like to shake things up. You don't like the national media and the smarty pants telling you who's going to be the next president.
CROWLEY: Everybody gets a chance to hope.
(END VIDEO TAPE) CROWLEY: After all that sweetness and light it's time for reality and reality here on the ground is a three-way tie. Obama, Clinton, Edwards; which means look for a little hardball over the next three weeks.
Candy Crowley, CNN, Johnston, Iowa.
COOPER: Joining us to break it all down, the raw politics round table, part of the best political team on television. David Gergen, former adviser to ex-president Clinton and other presidents as well, Republican and Democrat. "Time" magazine columnist Joe Klein and CNN's chief national correspondent John King.
These debates are supposed to help voters see the differences among these different candidates. Did it really happen today? In fact when it came to the actual issues, kind of hard to tell the candidates apart. I want to show our viewers some of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: As president, I will end the war in Iraq and bring our sons and daughters home.
OBAMA: End this war in Iraq and bring our combat troops home.
EDWARDS: I will end the war.
DODD: End the war in Iraq.
Certainly the war but also a robust diplomacy.
OBAMA: I will initiate the kind of diplomacy --
CLINTON: The era of cowboy diplomacy is over.
EDWARDS: And I'll begin the process of fighting for health care reform, universal health care.
OBAMA: Provide coverage to every single American.
CLINTON: I will get quality affordable health care for every single American.
RICHARD: I believe universal health care is a human right for every American.
I'm going to insure every single child and American.
RICHARDSON: We have to balance the budget.
CLINTON: When we do have a fiscally responsible budget.
OBAMA: I think we can return to a path of balanced budget.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: They almost complete the same sentence. David Gergen, where are the policy differences among these candidates?
DAVID GERGEN, ADVISER TO FORMER PRESIDENTS: You can't tell policy difference. There was very little daylight between them. Anderson, you were right about that.
What I do think voters can separate out is they looked for themes. And on that, I think John Edwards was the best today; he was the most focused. I think he actually walked away with some honors today.
But they're also going to look for the human elements. Just as we saw in the YouTube debate with the Republicans, how Mike Huckabee seemed so authentic and warm and it really helped him.
Today I must tell you that Mrs. Clinton, who's very good on the issues, didn't have that kind of human warmth except in a couple of places. Barack Obama was more at ease in this debate than I've ever seen him in the past Democratic debates and I think had some of that warmth.
COOPER: Essentially Joe, you followed campaigns for a long time. You hear fear in Hillary Clinton's voice?
JOE KLEIN: Well, it's interesting. Earlier in the year, when she was doing really well, she was speaking more slowly and from like her diaphragm. Now she's speaking much more quickly again and through her nose. It's interesting.
COOPER: How do you even notice these sorts of things, I can't even imagine but --
KLEIN: I've been watching these people for 20 years, the Clintons. The other really interesting thing today, you have to look for nits to pick in a debate like this where as David said, everybody says the same thing. From the beginning, this field has really been very similar on all the issues in the way they prioritize them.
But with Senator Clinton, she didn't talk about the Clinton administration anymore. She talked about back in the 1990s. That was one big change.
The other big change was as David said John Edwards now is talking about corporate greed. He's using the word greed time and time and time again.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: This is hurting her. At the beginning of the campaign, Anderson, when you asked about the issues, Hillary Clinton had a big advantage over most of her rivals on most of the big issues in the Democratic primary. With the war being the one exception early on when the left doubted her.
The longer the campaign goes on, the more people are seeing there are slight differences but philosophically they're both in the same place. The Democrats know who they are and what they would do if elected president. So it's much more about personal characteristics. And at a time when the kid, young guy, Obama is supposed to be stumbling, because the new guy always stumbles a little bit, he seems much more confident and comfortable and her team's worried.
COOPER: And Bill Shaheen, Hillary Clinton's campaign coach resigned after saying the statement of Barack Obama that the republicans were going to use his past drug use if it got down to a two-person race.
KLEIN Now that's fear. That is real fear talking. The Shaheens, Bill and his wife Jean, the former governor run a political machine up in New Hampshire, the most powerful in the state and all of a sudden things seem to be going south on them.
Obama's movement in New Hampshire is far more impressive than his movement in Iowa. It's been really rapid over the last few weeks. And so I think that that was fear talking when Shaheen made that terrible, terrible comment.
COOPER: David, why do you think it is, is it just that Barack Obama has found his voice? People point to that speech a couple of weeks ago where he talked about the urgency of now.
GERGEN: Well, I think he has found his voice. He's a much better candidate and gradually over the course of the debates he's become more experienced and he's more at ease and I think he was at his best today.
But it's also true that she's been stumbling. She's had a bad six weeks ever since that debate in Philadelphia. And I do think, I think Bill Klein is right. I'm not sure I'm going to go through the nose or the diaphragm.
I just felt that she was she's more tense when she spoke today. I thought she had a solid debate. The voters like to decide, but my sense was she did not reverse the momentum in this. She did not turn around her slide. But she may have stopped her slide.
I think it's now going to depend on the ground game. But these stories that are coming out of the Clinton campaign, the Shaheen story was obviously handicapped. But Bill Clinton, all these stories, Candy Crowley was reporting on this today in CNN.
You know that he's weighing in saying this has been a terribly run campaign. Heads may roll, et cetera. They need to get away from that and focus on, you know, Iowa and her and get her to lighten up.
KING: It's not all her quote, unquote fault though. In the sense that the undercurrent in the country now is this has been a long campaign. People are sick of politics. They're looking for new and different.
She's not new and different. Obama is. Mike Huckabee is new and different. You are seeing it on the Republican side as well. People are just tired and they want change. KLEIN: The point Obama and Huckabee have in common is that they're not divisive sorts. Obama's favorite by Republican says their favorite Democrat. The important thing to realize is that even when you have divisive issues at this point in a campaign.
The last few weeks, something interesting happens. Visceral decisions are made on the basis of who you want to have living in your house the next four years. The president is the most intimate office we have and a vast majority of people, I think an awful lot of people, make their decision on who they're going to be comfortable hearing bad news from and good news from.
COOPER: We're out of time. We got to leave it there. It was a fascinating discussion. Joe Klein, great to have you on. John King as well. David Gergen always good to see you, thanks.
The question is who was moved by what they heard today in the debate. That is next.
Democrats talk, undecided voters listen.
Iowans' reaction - minute by minute to the issues the attacks and the character of the candidates on stage.
Later, she went under the knife and came out with a new face. Now two years after a history making face transplant. How is she doing and how does she look? Answers ahead when "360" continues.
COOPER: With the latest poll showing a tight Democratic race going into the Iowa caucuses, the undecided could make all the difference. CNN's Joe Johns joins me with what they had to say about today's debate. Joe?
JOE JOHNS: Anderson, like we did with the Republicans on Wednesday, a focus group undecided Democrats this is time, plugged into the debate registering their approval or disapproval with dial-a- meters that put the results on screen.
The line on the screen tells you what the group was thinking when the candidates were speaking. A spike in the line means a positive response. A crater on the line means a negative response. CNN also asked the group a few questions of our own, though you can't call this a scientific poll.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
JOHNS: It's a dead heat in Iowa so every vote counts. Today's debate tipped the balance for some of our focus group. Asked who performed the best, most said John Edwards with Hillary Clinton in second place. And asked who they would vote for if the election were held today, the top three were Edwards, Barack Obama and Clinton in that order.
The Edwards populist approach focusing on the war between the haves and the have nots resonated.
EDWARDS: And one of the reasons that we have lost jobs, we're having trouble creating jobs, we are having trouble growing and strengthening the middle class is because corporate power and greed have literally taken over the government.
JOHNS: Obama scored well talking about education.
OBAMA: We have to turn off the TV set, we have got to put away the video game and we have to tell our children that education is not a passive activity. It is something that you have to be actively engaged in.
JOHNS: One woman said Obama won her over with his performance.
KUMSAN SONG, IOWAN VOTER: When he talked about education and also health cares and all the issues, he want to make sure that everyone will get it.
JOHNS: Clinton got strong marks talking about Medicare.
CLINTON: Medicare is especially vulnerable because the costs are going up so quickly. That's why we do need to give Medicare the right to negotiate for lower drug prices with the drug companies.
JOHNS: A lot of the reaction of the focus group to Clinton seemed subdued on the meters during the debate. But when people in the group were asked their overall impressions after the debate, Clinton seemed to do a bit better.
EMILY GROVER, IOWA VOTER: I really liked what Senator Clinton said throughout the debate. But before I came in I was leaning toward Obama but Obama almost seemed tentative and hesitant in his responses.
JOHNS: Still one off the cuff moment during the debate also got a bit of a spike. When the moderator asked Obama about all the people in his campaign who use to be advisors to President Clinton, Senator Clinton chimed in --
CLINTON: I want to hear that.
JOHNS: Only to hear a quick come back from Obama.
OBAMA: Hillary, I'm looking forward to you advising me as well.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
JOHNS: As for the other candidates, 17 percent of the group said Senator Chris Dodd had the best performance and 9 percent said Governor Bill Richardson did. Anderson?
COOPER: Thanks Joe. Here's Karen Chetry with what's coming up tomorrow on "American Morning."
KAREN CHETRY: Thanks Anderson. Tomorrow we bring you the most news in the morning including another medical marvel. You may have heard about the movie "The Diving Bell and the Butterfly." It was also a book. Just nominated for a Golden Globe. Well, it's an amazing story. The man who can't speak but can communicate by blinking the letters of the alphabet.
Tomorrow Dr. Sanjay Gupta shows us the new technology to help real life patients find their voice. It translates brain waves into speech. That's tomorrow on "American Morning" it all begins at 6:00 a.m. Eastern. Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: Tonight on "360," a soldier's story. See how the army apologized to a man who suffered for 60 plus years. A lot of people are calling it an outrage. We're keeping the army honest.
Also tonight, Madonna in the one place you might not expect to see her. Check out what honor she's getting, coming up.
COOPER: The army put him on trial, now it is time to put the army on trial. The story you'll hear tonight is about honor, respect and shame. It began a long time ago and it's not over yet. The pain and the questions are as clear today as they were back then. Keeping them honest tonight, here's CNN's David Mattingly.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY: This piece of paper was supposed to make things right for Samuel Snow. It's a check from the Pentagon cut for the World War II veteran. A way he thought the military would say I'm sorry. But that's not what happened.
With that check is the army saying that they care what they put you through?
SAMUEL SNOW, WORLD WAR II VETERAN: No, they didn't care.
MATTINGLY: We'll get back to the check in a minute. But to understand the scale of this injustice, you first need to rewind 63 years. Snow is one of two living defendants left from one of the biggest military trials of World War II. 28 black soldiers were sent to prison after an Italian POW was found hanged to death following a night of brawl at Seattle's Fort.
Two of the soldiers were sentenced to 15 years for manslaughter. Private Samuel Snow spent more than a year in prison for rioting and was dishonorably discharged. Stripped of any chance for G.I. loans or benefits he became a career janitor.
SNOW: That's like you might have slapped me and said excuse me.
MATTINGLY: Snow's fight for dignity began on a night in August, six decades ago when tensions between black U.S. troops and Italian POWs boiled over.
JACK HAMMOND: Words were exchanged, they got angry, somebody punched somebody. MATTINGLY: Seattle author Jack Hammond spend years detailing the riot for his book "On American Soil." Hammond concludes the army rushed to judge black soldiers to hide it's embarrassment over the murder of a white POW.
Today we find the old port is a public park with most buildings torn down. But Hammond was able to take me to the spot where Snow says he was knocked unconscious as he left his barracks.
Was Samuel Snow ever involved in that riot?
HAMMOND: He never had a chance to be involved in the riot. He was just responding quickly to what he thought was an attack and he was knocked out of it almost immediately.
MATTINGLY: Hammond's book caught the attention of Congress. Representative Jim McDermott asked the army to review the nearly forgotten case.
REP. JIM MCDERMOTT, (D) WASHINGTON: A real injustice had been done to a whole lot of black guys who were serving their country and somebody had to speak up for them.
MATTINGLY: and in October, the army seemed to agree. A board determined that the soldiers did not get a fair trial. It asked that their convictions be overturned and that they and their family be paid every penny they had been denied.
After all this time you would think that would be a substantial amount of money. And until he saw his check, Samuel Snow thought so too.
Did you think there was some kind of mistake?
SNOW: No, I didn't think it was no kind of mistake. I think they had done this all along and they would do that too.
MATTINGLY: How much?
SNOW: It was $725.
MATTINGLY: only $725. The exact amount of army pay Snow lost while in prison for 15 months. There was no allowance for lost benefits, inflation, or interest. At 8 percent a year, $725 would have grown to more than $82,000.
Keeping them honest, we went to the Pentagon only to find the army was going by the book.
$725 after being put in prison, denied benefits, pretty much for a lifetime, does the army believe that is fair?
COL. DAN BAGGIO, ARMY PUBLIC AFFAIRS: Well, really it's not a matter of the army deciding what's fair. It is the U.S. law.
What the army has done is gone back to correct the record and given him the pay that he is allowed under the current law. Any redress beyond that would have to go beyond the army probably to congress.
MATTINGLY: A spokesman for Congressman McDermott tells CNN if its hands are tied then the army will have to tell Congress what changes to make.
The army's actions also stopped short of saying that Snow and the other 27 soldiers are innocent. Something Snow believes he deserves, along within an apology and medical benefits. But now 83 and in poor health, he wonders if he will live to see it.
David Mattingly, CNN, Leesburg, Florida.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: A remarkable story, you can find a lot more about the story online. You can see what David wrote by going to cnn.com. The story's on the home page there.
Up next, our shot of the day. Remember the world's first face transplant patient? She's all healed now. We'll show you her amazing transformation, what she looks like today.
Plus what does Madonna have in common with rocker John Mellencamp? The answer when 360 continues.
COOPER: The shot of the day coming up. An amazing transformation for the world's first face transplant patient, this is her back in 2006 with the blonde hair and the black jacket. We will show you what she looks like now in a moment.
But first Gary Tuchman joins us with the 360 News and Business Bulletin.
TUCHMAN: Anderson, hello to you. New Jersey is one step away from abolishing the death penalty. The state assembly voted today to replace with life in prison without parole. The state senate did the same earlier this week. All that's needed now is the governor's signature.
On Wall Street, a mixed day after a poor show and a record jump in gas prices pushed wholesale inflation to its highest level since the 1970s. The Dow added 44 points, the Nasdaq losing 2, the S&P up by even less.
On Capitol Hill, senators gave a scaled-back energy bill the go ahead. Calls for the first rise in fuel economy standards in 32 years and more ethanol use. The measure passed after Democrats dropped a provision calling for new taxes on big oil companies. It's expected to pass in the House next week. And the Material Girl is going become a Hall of Famer. Madonna will be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in March along with John Mellencamp formerly known as Johnny Cougar early in his career, the Ventures, Leonard Cohen and The Dave Clark Five.
You know Anderson for our younger viewers, the Dave Clark Five was one of those British invasion bands that came in the early 60's to the United States around the same time as that group that some people call The Beatles.
COOPER: Did you call him Johnny Cougar? I think his name was John Cougar.
TUCHMAN: I think they called him Johnny Cougar to start, then John Cougar, then John Cougar Mellencamp. Now just John Mellencamp. Who knows what's next?
COOPER: Actually I was just bragging. When I asked before the break, I said what does Madonna have in common with John Mellencamp. Marshall, one of our writers said that they were both cougars.
Gary thanks stay right there. The shot of the day coming up. And update on the world's first face transplant. Patient before and after when "360" continues.
COOPER: Gary time for the shot of the day. Total transformation as the world's first face transplant. Patient Isabel Dinoir (PH) of France. These photos were taken after her surgery back in 2005. She has a new nose, a chin and lips after being mauled by her dog. Eighteen months later, look at her. There she is, she can manage a slight smile. Doctors say she has beaten the odds. The before and after.
Two times her body rejected the new tissue and two times she faced kidney failure but she fought back and says it was all worth it.
Don't forget to check out the "360" program page at cnn.com/360. Tonight you can find out more about the New Year's eve special. That's right, I'll be in Times Square for the 150th year in a row. This year's special guest -- drum roll -- Kathy Griffin. That's right, I always look forward to her because well, it's just plain fun and Kathy Griffin is just plain funner.
For international viewers CNN Today is next. If you're watching here in America, Larry King is next.
I'll see you tomorrow night. Thanks for watching.
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