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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
New Hampshire Delivers For McCain and Clinton
Aired January 08, 2008 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, we can repair this world. Yes, we can.
And, so, tomorrow, as we take the campaign south and west, as we learn that the struggles of the textile workers in Spartanburg are not so different than the plight of the dishwasher in Las Vegas, that the hopes of the little girl who goes to the crumbling school in Dillon are the same as the dreams of the boy who learns on the streets of L.A., we will remember that there is something happening in America, that we are not as divided as our politics suggest, that we are one people, we are one nation.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: And, together, we will begin the next great chapter in the American story with three words that will ring from coast to coast, from sea to shining sea: Yes, we can.
Thank you, New Hampshire. Thank you. Thank you.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And there he is, Barack Obama. He comes in second tonight in New Hampshire, Hillary Clinton the winner.
Barack Obama delivering a powerful address, though. "Yes, we can" his theme. He's now moving on, moving on to South Carolina, moving on Nevada and later to Super Tuesday. There is a real fight under way right now in the Democratic Party, high drama and huge comebacks in New Hampshire tonight, Hillary Clinton pulling out a victory in the Democratic primary, CNN projecting that Hillary Clinton will win over Barack Obama.
It's been a close and fascinating race. Barack Obama, you just heard him conceding. And, just a short time ago, Senator Obama formally congratulated Senator Clinton on her win. We're waiting now to hear from Senator Clinton.
She will be speaking very soon to her supporters in New Hampshire as well. Once she starts speaking, we will go there live.
On the Republican side, it's been a big win for John McCain, another comeback for John McCain. Coming back from seemingly in a very, very desperate position only a few months ago, he goes on to capture the Republican primary tonight in New Hampshire -- dramatic developments.
Lou Dobbs and the best political team on television, you are watching all of this.
Lou, what do you think? The Hillary Clinton comeback, the John McCain comeback, what a storyline that all of us political news junkies are following.
LOU DOBBS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": Well, indeed it is a night of comebacks, and unexpected comebacks, an unexpected comeback in the case of, of course, Senator Clinton.
And, as we heard Senator Obama start the mantra of his campaign, "Yes,, we can," it was pretty easy, I thought, John King, to -- to get lost in the fact that he came in second tonight.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He did come in second, and, yet, he gave pretty much the speech he probably would have given had he come in first, except for that early line, "I would like to congratulate Senator Clinton on her victory." He did get that out of the way early.
He's trying to send a message in the states to people to come, especially in Nevada and in South Carolina. Just the other day, everyone was looking at that 10-point lead in the polls and thinking, this could be checkers for Obama, that he was just going to skip, skip, jump, jump, jump, jump. King me.
Well, guess what, Lou? Now we're going to play chess. In both the Democratic and the Republican race, you are looking at a crowded calendar. You have to pick your states, look at the demographics, look at how much money it costs to be on TV. And, if you are Obama, you are going to pick up a very big important endorsement in Nevada tomorrow morning, according to our sources.
DOBBS: Right.
KING: The African-American vote matters in South Carolina. You are looking at your two places. That's what he was trying to do, saying: Don't give up. We still can. Stay with us.
DOBBS: And -- and it's interesting. The Unite Here folks, that was supposed to occur at 11:00 p.m. Eastern time. Now we have the results in.
Do you think, Gloria, that there might be any head-scratching and second thoughts about endorsing Obama?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I think -- I think there might be.
I think, Lou, we cannot understate -- or overstate, I should say, what a huge, huge win this is for Hillary Clinton tonight. The polls had it wrong because voters changed, it seems to me, at the last minute. Hillary Clinton retooled her campaign a little bit, started getting out of the bubble, started actually talking to voters, answering all their questions, had an emotional moment, humanized herself.
Her performance, plus...
DOBBS: The tears worked?
BORGER: I -- I don't know. We will see. All we know is that -- that -- that she did a lot better with women in New Hampshire than she did in Iowa.
But, also, she had a great ground operation. You have to give them credit. As John King said earlier...
DOBBS: But -- but, Gloria...
BORGER: ... in a tight race, you have to get out those voters. And she did it.
DOBBS: For -- for crying out loud, "Newsweek"'s preeminent pundit talking about how she should, in fact, retool her campaign. People were writing this senator off as recently as, oh, today. What happened?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: I think the Obama people also may have been a little overconfident. Did you notice their musical selection that they had picked for tonight? It was Stevie Wonder's "Signed, Sealed, Delivered." I don't think so.
KING: Whoops.
(LAUGHTER)
TOOBIN: I don't think anything is signed, sealed, delivered at this point.
I mean, this race is totally wide open. And look at South Carolina now. South Carolina has gone from a possible coronation of Barack Obama to...
DOBBS: Yes.
TOOBIN: Oh, do we have Hillary Clinton there getting ready to speak? Well, let's listen to her.
DOBBS: We do have Hillary Clinton. And this is not a coronation, but I have to tell you, it is one heck of a resuscitation.
Senator Clinton about to claim victory with her narrow margin and her unexpected margin. But, as you can tell, she seems very authentic with that smile tonight.
KING: And listen to what she says, because she is retooling her message. She may not have this giant staff turnover that people have been talking about, but she is retooling her message.
And listen. You are going to hear a little bit of a different Hillary Clinton, more personal and more reactive to what Obama did.
DOBBS: Let's put John King to the test and see whether or not Senator Clinton has retooled.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you.
CROWD: Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary!
CLINTON: Thank you. Thank you.
CROWD: Hillary! Hillary! Hillary!
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: Thank you.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: I -- I -- I come tonight with a very, very full heart.
And I want -- I want especially to thank New Hampshire. Over the last week, I listened to you, and, in the process, I found my own voice.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: I felt like we all spoke from our hearts. And I am so gratified that you responded.
Now, together, let's give America the kind of comeback that New Hampshire has just given me.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: For...
CROWD: Hillary! Hillary! Hillary!
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: You know, for all the ups and downs of this campaign, you helped remind everyone that politics isn't a game. This campaign is about people, about making a difference in your lives, about making sure that everyone in this country has the opportunity to live up to his or her God-given potential.
That has been the work of my life. We are facing a moment of so many big challenges. (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: We know we face challenges here at home, around the world, so many challenges for the people whose lives I have been privileged to be part of.
I have met families in this state and all over our country who have lost their homes to foreclosures, men and women who work day and night, but can't pay the bills, and hope they don't get sick, because they can't afford health insurance, young people who can't afford to go to college to pursue their dreams.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: Too many -- too many have been invisible for too long.
Well, you are not invisible to me.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: The oil companies, the drug companies, the health insurance companies, the predatory student loan companies have had seven years of a president who stands up for them. It's time we had a president who stands up for all of you.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: I intend -- I intend to be that president, to be a president who puts you first...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: ... your lives, your families, your children, your futures. I believe deeply in America, in our can-do spirit, in our ability to meet any challenge and solve any problem. I believe in what we can do together.
In the future, we will build together. There will be no more invisible Americans. So, we're going to take what we have learned here in New Hampshire, and we're going to rally on and make our case. We are in it for the long run.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: And that is because we are in it for the American people.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: This victory will serve notice that people across our country know what's really at stake, that we will all be called upon to deliver on the promise of America. We will be called upon to deliver on the promise that the middle class will grow and prosper again, to deliver on the promise that government will be of the people, by the people and for the people, not just the privileged few... (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: ... to deliver on the promise that every generation will have their shot at the American dream, to deliver on the promise that we will have the will and the wisdom to end the war in Iraq the right way...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: ... to deliver on the promise to take care of our brave veterans and restore America's standing, respect and credibility around the world.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: We -- we know that, for the promise of America to be real, we are called upon to deliver on that promise. And, if you join in this call to greatness, we will, together, answer.
So, tomorrow, we're going to get up, roll up our sleeves and keep going.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: I invite you to come join us at hillaryclinton.com.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: We're going to tap into all of the spirit, the talent and just the plain grit of this great nation again.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: We are determined to tackle our toughest problems and stand up for those who most need a champion, because we are determined to make America work again for all of our people. We came back tonight because you spoke loudly and clearly.
You want...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: You want this campaign to be about you, because there is so much at stake for our country.
I have so many people to thank. I want to thank the two most important people in my life, Bill and Chelsea.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: I want to thank them for their incredible commitment, their passion and their heart. I want to thank my entire family, particularly my mother, who is watching tonight.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: I want to thank the extraordinary team here in New Hampshire that never faltered one minute.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: And that team had a great staff. It had volunteers and supporters from across the state and this country.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: I want to thank the young people across New Hampshire who came out.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: They asked the hard questions, and they voted their hearts and their minds. And I really appreciate it.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: And, finally, I want to say how much I respect our Democratic candidates.
Senators Dodd and Biden, who were in the race earlier, have given great service to our country.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: Governor Richardson, Congressman Kucinich, Senator Edwards and Senator Obama, they all...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: They all have put themselves on the line day and night on behalf of this country we love so much.
This campaign will transform America, because we will take on the challenges. We will seize the opportunities. Every single day, I am not going out there on my own. I'm going out there accompanied by millions and millions of people who believe, as I do, that this country is worth fighting for.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: Thank you, and God bless you!
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
DOBBS: You're looking at the winner of the Democratic primary in New Hampshire. She's not supposed to be there. It was supposed to be Barack Obama by as much as double digits.
The experts were wrong. The people of New Hampshire, certainly the Democrats and independents who voted today, demonstrating what all of those pundits and savants who were so terribly wrong can do with their projections.
I'm here with Carl Bernstein, Bill Bennett, Roland Martin. Your reaction to a woman who was supposed to be down and out a few hours ago.
CARL BERNSTEIN, AUTHOR, "A WOMAN IN CHARGE: THE LIFE OF HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON": First of all -- first of all, that's her great speech. And it's her.
The most important thing she said in Iowa that got missed was, "I'm running this campaign." And that's what she did when she got to New Hampshire. Bill Clinton was no longer the primary aspect of the campaign. We're going to see more changes like this -- and that she is no longer speaking from that protective shell.
This is more of her essential self. You see it periodically. I think she knows she has to be real. If she can do this -- tonight, she got the breathing room to have a full campaign. She was down and out. Those polls were only a snapshot, but, if they had gone just a little bit the other way -- and, still, the other thing is, you know, 53 percent of the people still did not vote for her.
So, she has got a long way to go, but, boy, does she have breathing room. She can raise money. And Edwards is the best thing she has going for her right now, because he is splitting the vote and taking away from her.
DOBBS: Roland Martin, your thoughts.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: A couple of factors.
First and foremost, our polling, CNN/WMUR, showed that Obama was leading her by 3 percent among women -- exit polls today, plus 13 among women. That is what helped him in Iowa. Also, young voters, in Iowa, they made up -- 17 to 29 made up 22 percent of those voting in the caucuses -- in New Hampshire, 17 percent.
So, I think, when you look at that moment yesterday, what the Obama campaign is saying, they believe that that tearful moment, the crying moment, caused women to say, you know what? Let's give her a chance. Let's give her a shot.
DOBBS: Well, I can't speak for all men, but I will tell you, it gave me pause to see Senator Clinton, with a voice so natural as I can't recall hearing her voice be, with that tearful moment, many of which -- many of the folks, you know, the savants and pundits and gurus who know these things suggesting it was inauthentic. It seemed powerfully authentic to me.
MARTIN: I already had my piece written for tomorrow in terms, what does she need to do?
And what I...
DOBBS: Right.
MARTIN: The number-one item was, she needs to say, "Look, run my campaign; let me be me," because the bottom line is, if you play safe...
DOBBS: Right.
MARTIN: ... the bottom line is, you -- that's not going to work for you this time. You have to open yourself up.
Republicans side, what was the top issue? Likability.
DOBBS: Likability, which I just reject out of hand, because I want it to be, as much as it can be, a race about issues and ideas, like I think many Americans. And the fact is, likability still dominates our frontal lobe.
(CROSSTALK)
BERNSTEIN: ... about character and people also.
DOBBS: But, Bill Bennett -- absolutely.
And, Bill Bennett, the -- the senator from New York said, as she began, that she listened to the people of New Hampshire, and, in so doing, found her own voice. That, also, while a clever line -- and I compliment whoever the speechwriter was -- it also sounded authentic, for crying out loud.
I'm not used to this.
BILL BENNETT, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, yes, yes.
Well, I don't know what we have to get used to. Candor. You know, watching the mainstream media saying that she was done and finished...
DOBBS: Right.
BENNETT: ... for a conservative Republican, where do I go? Do I side with the Clintons or do I side with the mainstream media?
(LAUGHTER)
BENNETT: It was a tough place to be.
BERNSTEIN: You were for Obama the other night.
BENNETT: Yes. But...
(LAUGHTER)
BENNETT: Right.
But I will tell you, I mean, this tells you, don't count -- A, don't count people out. And don't count out John McCain.
DOBBS: Right.
BENNETT: Don't count out Hillary Clinton. DOBBS: John McCain.
BENNETT: Right.
And it ain't over until it's over.
(CROSSTALK)
BENNETT: And the people spoke. And that's another nice victory, isn't it?
DOBBS: Two U.S. senators tonight winning in New Hampshire, both of whom, one within just days, having been written off...
BENNETT: Right.
DOBBS: ... and literally for weeks and weeks, Senator McCain being written off.
MARTIN: But the one word. It was authentic.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: John McCain came out and was John McCain. He tried to start off last summer with a Bush campaign, the big money, the big advisers.
And you know what, John? You have to be you.
DOBBS: Well, there's...
BERNSTEIN: You have also got to wait for some votes to be cast.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BERNSTEIN: You know, he beat -- we had been writing off people before a single vote was cast.
The other thing is that Bill Clinton women see less of, that part of what she is doing -- and I talked to some people today about this -- is that...
DOBBS: Right.
BERNSTEIN: ... is that she knows that Bill Clinton is the baggage she has to deal with. This can no longer be about the restoration of the Clintons to the White House, because she cannot make it to the White House that way. And she knows it.
The question is how to do it. It's a difficult dynamic between the two. This is a very human story that we're watching. We have never seen anything like this. It goes back to this national psychodrama with the Clintons.
BENNETT: Yes.
BERNSTEIN: That's part of the story.
BENNETT: And, as an almost lifelong critic of the Clintons -- and there's a lot of things you can say about them that are uncomplimentary and that are true -- but one thing is also true. Politically, they are something.
(LAUGHTER)
BENNETT: Boy, don't ever count these people out. I mean, they are very, very strong.
DOBBS: Well, don't -- don't count them out, but, as our Gloria Borger said earlier, you know, the savants, the pundits, all the political experts...
BENNETT: Yes. Yes.
DOBBS: ... need to do a little -- a little...
BENNETT: Soul-searching?
DOBBS: ... seeking of forgiveness and achieve a little humility, or at least modesty, if you can't quite get to -- to humility, because everyone was so wrong in this, and breathtakingly so.
Roland?
MARTIN: Lou, let me talk about the most favorite sport among African-Americans, NASCAR.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: This is sort of how I...
DOBBS: So declared by Roland Martin tonight.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Since we're going to South Carolina next.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: And I thought this race was hard to follow.
MARTIN: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Go ahead, Roland.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: I sort of -- I sort of view this campaign as a NASCAR race. You have two fast cars. What does it come down to? Strategy. Do I pit? Do I do two tires, four tires? What do I do to win?
What you hear -- Obama actually has the riskiest strategy. He's trying to pull in young voters, independent voters, the Holy Grail of politics. And, so, in Iowa, he took the risk. It worked.
Clinton is a traditional campaign, union, in terms of older voters...
DOBBS: Right.
MARTIN: ... women. And, so, it's all about risk.
And, so, what we saw in Iowa, he took the risk. He won. She took the risk in New Hampshire. She won. Now, the question in South Carolina, what happens now?
DOBBS: What happens now?
And we're going to be, in just a minute, coming back. We are going to be talking about the exit polling, the story behind the story. And what a story it is tonight: Senator John McCain prevailing in the Republican primary, Senator Hillary Clinton prevailing -- yes, Senator Hillary Clinton winning in New Hampshire, despite everything you have read and heard, even pundits and savants suggesting how she might retool her campaign, which looks like it is humming right now.
We will be back with that.
And, any -- any time you feel like getting to further details, go to CNN.com for more information on this primary and politics in general, because politics tonight just got a lot more interesting.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody.
We're back with Bill Schneider, which means we are analyzing the exit poll numbers to try to figure out what exactly put Hillary Clinton over the top. Why did she win? It was so tight for such a long time.
First and foremost, you have got to look to the female vote here.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Women, that was it in a single word: women. The empire strikes back, I call this, chapter two of this campaign.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHNEIDER: And it was women who delivered the vote for Hillary Clinton. They gave her a 13-point advantage over Barack Obama. This was decisive in this race. It didn't happen in Iowa, but it happened in New Hampshire. She got women's votes back. And there's going to be a lot of analysis of how she did it. But she did it.
O'BRIEN: Was there one particular issue where she was very strong?
SCHNEIDER: The economy. That was the biggest issue to the voters here. And that's the issue that delivered for her.
Look at this. Among voters who said their top issue was the economy, Clinton had almost a 10-point lead over Barack Obama. The economy paid off, a big concern for her constituents, for all Democrats. That was the issue that did it.
O'BRIEN: As she heads now into big states, what -- what do you think propels her forward?
SCHNEIDER: Union voters were very important. You know, among non-union voters in New Hampshire, the race was a tie. She won because union voters -- right here -- gave her a 10-point lead.
They are not very numerous in New Hampshire. Only 20 percent of Democrats are from union households, but that put her over the top. And, as we go to some of these big states, like New York and California and Nevada, union voters are going to become more and more important to her.
O'BRIEN: Just a few moments ago, we heard Carl Bernstein say that Hillary's baggage was Bill Clinton. But if you look at the actual exit poll question about Bill Clinton, you don't see that as baggage.
SCHNEIDER: No. Bill Clinton is a rock star among Democrats. He and Barack Obama were both voted -- when Democrats in New Hampshire were asked about their favorability to various people, Bill Clinton came out right at the top, along with Barack Obama. So Bill Clinton, he was not a controversial figure. Democrats in New Hampshire love Bill Clinton.
O'BRIEN: And Hillary Clinton a solid 10 points below him.
SCHNEIDER: A little bit below that. She was about 10 points below her husband Clinton and Barack Obama. Bill Clinton, it looks like, helped her.
O'BRIEN: Looking ahead to tomorrow, one of the big headlines we're going to see -- it's got to be "Where Did the Polls Go Wrong?" SCHNEIDER: The polls clearly went wrong. The answer is I don't know. But all the polls pointed in the same direction -- a significant Obama victory. All the polls got it wrong and there will be a lot of hand- wringing and gnashing of teeth over how that happened.
O'BRIEN: And did the almost crying work?
Was that it?
SCHNEIDER: And that's the other issue.
Yes, her show of emotion -- how much difference did that make? There will be torrids of print over how that happened. But believe me, it will be considered a signal campaign moment in this campaign.
O'BRIEN: Well, to paraphrase Lou, South Carolina tonight just got a whole lot more interesting...
SCHNEIDER: Yes. Yes, it did.
O'BRIEN: I think it's fair to say -- Lou.
DOBBS: Absolutely, Soledad.
Thank you very much.
Lost in all of the discussion about the comeback of Hillary Clinton -- a five day turnaround, if you will, Senator John McCain, which has been really a several months campaign.
Anderson Cooper is over with our panel -- and, Anderson, our John King talked about a new message from Hillary Clinton and he was absolutely right. There was also a steadfast message from Senator McCain that seemed to work, as well, Anderson.
COOPER: Certainly. And those are both the big stories of the night.
I want to go back to this polling information. On the Republican side, the polls seemed accurate. Clearly, on the Democratic side, they were not.
On the Internet, a lot of people are asking the question about race -- do -- is it possible people lied to pollsters, saying they were going to vote for an African-American candidate and then not?
KING: It's always an issue that comes up when you have an African-American candidate. And, you're right, I've gotten a number of e-mails tonight from people in different campaigns, Democratic strategists, other people out there, saying, well, could it be race, could it be race, could it be race?
We don't know the answer to that and let's hope not. We'll check in with our pollster. We'll do some more analysis on that. It also could be other things.
Hillary Clinton flooded the zone -- a lot of union help, a lot of ground people, foot soldiers who know New Hampshire very well. And turnout in Manchester and Nashua -- the traditional cities -- and she does better with lower income, more traditional, blue collar Democrats. And she had huge margins in Manchester and Nashua. If you turn out more votes where the people are, you win elections.
COOPER: Donna Brazile, a CNN contributor, it has happened in other races before. The Tom Bradley effect, some people call it.
DONNA BRAZILE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look, it happened in the Doug Lawler (ph) race. We've seen it in other races. We saw it just recently, when Harold Ford was running for the United States Senate in Tennessee.
I don't know if race was a factor, if voters said one thing to pollsters and then, of course, did another thing once they were behind the booth.
What we know is back in December, Senator Clinton had a tremendous ground operation to get absentee ballots in before the deadline. They targeted seniors, older women, and that may have been the difference...
TOOBIN: But I think -- I think it's worth...
BRAZILE: (INAUDIBLE) Senator Clinton.
TOOBIN: Excuse me. I think one of the things that's worth remembering about this -- the race theory -- is that the polls were very accurate in Iowa a week earlier, and, if anything, underestimated Obama's support. So, I mean...
COOPER: But the other...
TOOBIN: ...it's a caucus, not a primary.
COOPER: The flip side of that is it's a public vote. It's a caucus.
BRAZILE: Sure.
COOPER: You're standing up in front of your neighbors, as opposed to a private vote in a voting booth.
TOOBIN: That -- yes, that's true. But I think to have a completely different change based on race, based on the same candidates, strikes me as unlikely.
COOPER: Gloria?
BORGER: But here's what we do know. We do know that women changed their votes from when we were polling, you know, just a -- just a few days ago. We also know that Hillary Clinton made a move not just for older voters, but to try and get the 25 to 39-year-olds. I mean Barack Obama won with the young voters, she won with the over 65 set.
But on the 25 to 39-year-olds, they split those people this time. And that's a move that she made. And she's going to continue to do that in her retooled message. She's not going to give up that sort of middle crowd to Barack Obama.
COOPER: For John Edwards, this was probably the worst possible outcome. You raised that point earlier.
KING: The Edwards campaign is saying this is great because Obama is not running away with it. That is their public line. But they wanted her out of the race because an Obama/Clinton race crowds Edwards out. That has been the thing all along.
So their hope was that Obama would -- I mean, obviously, they wanted to win New Hampshire, but they knew they wouldn't. So their hope was Obama won tonight, you knocked Senator Clinton on the ropes and then you have two candidates competing for change. And essentially their campaign was based on the idea that the kid stumbles -- that Obama, eventually, after running off a string of successes, makes a mistake down the line and Edwards is the guy left standing.
So they're saying this is a good thing for them tonight. I have a hard time figuring that out.
COOPER: For Hillary Clinton, Obama -- Edwards' staying in the race is a good thing.
BRAZILE: Absolutely. It split the anti-Clinton vote. It gives John Edwards an opportunity to go down to New Hampshire -- I mean, go down to South Carolina and shake things up. But I don't think John Edwards has the resources, the money or a message that will resonate. Right now...
COOPER: He won in South Carolina in the past, though.
BRAZILE: Well, yes. He won four years ago. That was a different season. But this is a season where you have Barack Obama, an African- American. African-Americans will make up more than 50 percent of that primary. I still think that Obama will have tremendous momentum going to South Carolina.
COOPER: But let's talk about that, though, because what does this mean, Hillary Clinton coming in first now, if you're African-American in South Carolina?
Before -- in the last week there's been a lot of talk about African-Americans in South Carolina suddenly seeing Barack Obama as a viable candidate, switching from the Clintons to him.
Does that suddenly -- is that in doubt now?
BRAZILE: Look, I think black women will determine the outcome in South Carolina. All along, they've been looking for a champion, a fighter. And in the last couple of days, they've been very excited about Barack Obama. I think tomorrow morning what we will hear on black radio stations -- and, clearly, Roland Martin knows a lot about this -- black women will determine whether or not Obama will become the Democratic nominee.
TOOBIN: But remember, also, that Obama got a tremendous bounce out of Iowa. Hillary Clinton is going to get a bounce here. I mean the polls are going to change. And that's why Nevada and South Carolina -- I don't think any poll that exists now is worth looking at because things are going to be different tomorrow.
COOPER: John King has an example of it. Nothing older than the day old news. KING: I was just going to hold this up. You know, I used to work in the print side of the business, and I'm not making fun of "The New York Post" at all around this bandwagon. I'm just using this as an example. But I think in the print side of the business, the language is get me rewrite.
BORGER: Right.
(LAUGHTER)
BORGER: Well, but let's give credit to the candidate, to Hillary Clinton. I think the Hillary Clinton you saw tonight giving that speech was kind of a real -- a retooled candidate. If you noticed the stagecraft around her, it wasn't the Madeleine Albrights anymore standing behind her. It was young.
COOPER: In fact, when I flew back from Manchester this morning, I was on the plane with General Wesley Clark. I was like oh, they're sending him (INAUDIBLE)...
(LAUGHTER)
BORGER: But, you know, and her message was completely retooled tonight. It was much more personal.
COOPER: Rt.
BORGER: It wasn't Mark Penn focus grouped to death. This is the candidate you are going to see in South Carolina.
COOPER: Well, Lou, it will also be very interesting to see all that talk about retooling the campaign.
Will that actually now occur, given what happened or are all of those people who are suddenly, you know, people were condemning Mark Penn, is he now suddenly brilliant again?
(LAUGHTER)
We'll have to wait and see tomorrow.
BRAZILE: Look, I think she threw away Mark Penn's playbook. And what you saw tonight was Hillary Clinton taking advantage of this moment. And now she is going to run her own campaign.
COOPER: Let's go back to Lou.
DOBBS: Anderson, thank you.
We're sitting here looking at something our executive producer, David Borman (ph), pointed out. If the snapshot we're getting right here -- we're looking at two U.S. senators vying for the presidency, if one of these two parties happens to produce the winner of this election. That hasn't happened since John F. Kennedy.
The other thing that's interesting about this, we have two senators who took very distinct, firm positions on the war in Iraq -- and unpopular ones with the extremes, if you will, in terms of the Democratic Party, and very unpopular with many of the people on the Republican Party.
What do you make of that, Bill Bennett?
WILLIAM BENNETT, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, that's right. John McCain's position on the war obviously unpopular with many Americans. But he said I'd rather lose an election than lose the war. The surge seems to be working -- or at least having -- making progress. And McCain is rewarded for this.
Hillary Clinton has been pushed around by the left, saying you're not tough enough on this war. And she has -- she has prevailed.
However, I would say this. On the Democrat side, it will be either Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. I guess one says tonight perhaps somewhat more likely Hillary Clinton. You don't know who it's going to be on the Republican side.
DOBBS: Partner, I don't know who it's going to be in either party, let me be really clear.
(CROSSTALK)
BENNETT: No, but it will be...
(CROSSTALK)
BENNETT: But it will be one of those two.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going to be one of the two, yes.
BENNETT: But you can't say it will be either Huckabee or McCain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BENNETT: I mean it's a tremendous win for McCain. But this thing is still open to three, four, five people.
DOBBS: And doesn't that feel pretty good?
BENNETT: Well, it's a great country, you know?
And they decide, the pundits don't. Don't listen to these people, that's what we're saying.
DOBBS: Roland, real quickly.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Look, I understand the whole point in terms of when people say I will vote for someone African-American and won't. Women turned this. And I think what -- I disagree with John, my old print guy. I think all of that discussion about her possibly going down in flames caused women to say wait a minute, we don't want to see her go down in a second primary. Let's give her a shot. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes.
MARTIN: I just don't -- I just don't buy that. I think women -- they were the key.
BERNSTEIN: It's not only that women were the key. It's the other night Hillary said look, I'm a woman running for president. That resonated. She is now campaigning as a woman running for president. That is the difference. That's who you're seeing...
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: (INAUDIBLE) said that in South Carolina.
BERNSTEIN: We haven't seen that.
DOBBS: And while you all continue this, we're going to turn to our colleague, Wolf Blitzer...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wolf.
DOBBS: ...who is going to bring us up to date on the votes as they're being counted now -- Wolf, help us out.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Lou.
An excellent, excellent discussion.
Let's take a look and see what we know right now about the actual vote. We know who is going to win among the Democrats. We know who is going to win among the Republicans. Here is the tally as of right now.
First, among the Democrats, with 86 percent of the precincts reporting, Hillary Clinton the winner, with 39 percent. So far, Barack Obama very close behind, 37 percent. Nothing to be ashamed of about it at all. John Edwards with 17 percent. Bill Richardson, the governor of New Mexico, only 5 percent. And in hard numbers, Hillary Clinton gets just more than 95,000 to Barack Obama's just more than 89,000; John Edwards 41,000; Bill Richardson 11,000. Kucinich and Gravel far, far behind.
Among the Republicans, let's take a closer look right now. John McCain is the winner -- a comeback for him, very important when he needed it, needed it desperately. And he got it -- 37 percent of the vote, with 85 percent of the precincts reporting. Romney, 32 percent. Huckabee comes in third, with 11 percent. He says he's very happy about that, having won the Iowa caucuses. Giuliani only 9 percent. Everybody else less. Ron Paul just below Rudy Giuliani, with 15,667 votes. John McCain got the most -- more than 75,000; Romney, 64,000; Huckabee, 22,000 -- almost -- 500. And Giuliani and Ron Paul fought out for -- fighting it out for fourth place right now.
We're going to continue to stay on top of this story.
We'll take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to hear what some of the presidential candidates had to say to their supporters and to all of us, here as we cover this story.
You're watching us from the CNN Election Center.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We've got a lot more coming up here at the CNN Election Center. Also at the top of the hour, midnight Eastern, Larry King has a special program that's coming up.
Larry is joining us with a little preview -- Larry, it's always exciting on these election nights.
What's on tap at the top of the hour?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": You're not kidding, Wolf.
We'll have two candidates, one from each party. We'll have major supporters of those candidates, including the chief adviser to the very successful Hillary Clinton tonight. And we'll have our own set of superb reporters -- the best team in television, including you, Wolf, who will hang around to be with us. So we'll have lots of interesting talk from lots of interesting people on this really surprising night.
BLITZER: A very surprising night, indeed, for a lot of people, Larry.
We're standing by. A full hour with Larry coming up right at the top of the hour. We're looking forward to that.
Let's take a look and see these two winners' campaign.
Dana Bash is standing by at the McCain headquarters. It's pretty empty behind you right now -- Dana.
Candy Crowley is over at the Clinton campaign. There's still people behind you, Candy, over there.
I want to play a clip, Dana, from what John McCain told his supporters just a little while ago -- a huge win for him tonight in New Hampshire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: I'm going to New Hampshire, where the voters don't let you make their decision for them.
(APPLAUSE)
MCCAIN: And when they asked, how are you going to do it, you're down in the polls, you don't have the money -- I answered, I'm going to New Hampshire and I'm going to tell people the truth. (APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: You've got to give John McCain a lot of credit -- Dana Bash, you've been covering his campaign. There was no surrender. He used that word. He absolutely refused to surrender and he managed to get a win in New Hampshire, once again, tonight.
Give us a little flavor of how it unfolded.
BASH: Well, it was a remarkable night for John McCain and his supporters here. You know, the fact that he, as he said, he really was just -- it's important to keep reminding our viewers, just a few months ago, he was basically left for -- as a goner in the Republican race for several reasons, primarily because he simply was not in line with the Republican base on some major, major issues, including immigration.
But he did come back here and he built himself back up the old- fashioned way and the way that he did it the last time he won, in 2000, by going from town hall to town hall and taking voters' questions -- taking some pretty tough questions. You mentioned tonight sometimes he disagreed with them. I witnessed a couple of those. You know, he wasn't afraid to go back and forth with voters, even those who were giving him a hard time.
The challenge for John McCain at this point, he does have a new lease on life, which is better than the alternative. But the challenge is to try to emulate what he was able to do here in New Hampshire, which is a very, very special place for John McCain. It's going to be very difficult to do that. But he is going to go ahead to do it in Michigan -- a place he did win in 2000 -- and then on to South Carolina. His hope there is to get the veterans -- the very, very big veteran population -- to perhaps prop him up in South Carolina -- unlike what happened to him in 2000, where he lost big time there -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Had he lost in New Hampshire tonight, who knows what he would have been able to do. But now he moves forward to Michigan and South Carolina and beyond.
Dana thanks very much.
Let's check in with Candy Crowley.
She's over at the Clinton headquarters.
There's still some people mulling around behind you. A huge win for her tonight. She needed it after her setback in Iowa. She got it.
Give us a little flavor.
CROWLEY: Well, just to let you know how energized they are, the reason there are still people behind me is that Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton are still shaking hands and talking to people. So, look, they really went into today, they swear, thinking they were going to lose. They were talking about, well, if we lose by less than 7 points, it would be a victory for us, because that means Obama didn't get a bounce.
You could hear, over the hours as you checked in with them, that they were growing increasingly optimistic about it.
Why do they think they pulled this out?
A couple of things. They say, you know, first of all, this is a primary as opposed to a caucus. When you have a caucus, you've got like an hour to figure out who's in that caucus. In a primary, people vote all day long. So they could go to their strengths, to their bailiwicks, where they knew there were a lot of Clinton supporters. They knew whether people were turning out. They could drive them to the polls.
But more than that, they say that coming out of Iowa, Hillary Clinton said we need to do a better job reaching out to young people. As you know, young people flocked to Barack Obama. So she spent the past five days reaching out to young people, particularly young women.
So they think that really had a lot to do with it. And they say that they will, moving forward, be reaching out to young people, because they know that was a constituency that they ignored in Iowa. They admit to that.
They also believe what we heard here in this speech. And what was interesting to me was there was a lot of criticism about the Clintons being about the Clintons, that it was always about their victories or their defeat. And what you heard tonight from Hillary Clinton was a rephrasing of the way she started this race when she announced, when she said I'm in it and I'm in it to win. Well, tonight she said I'm in it and I'm in it for the American people.
So there's a lot of things that this campaign has learned over time. Clearly, one of them is that Hillary Clinton has got to be more personable, has to be more likable and has to show a little more of herself out there on the campaign trail -- Wolf.
BLITZER: I couldn't help but notice -- and I'm sure a lot of people did, Candy -- that behind Hillary Clinton tonight, when she was delivering her victory speech, you saw a lot of young people. You didn't see a lot of the old-timers from the first Clinton administrations. I didn't see Madeleine Albright. I didn't see Wesley Clark. I saw a lot of young kids behind her. And I suspect that was not by accident.
What are you hearing?
CROWLEY: And not at all by accident. Look, they watch the news. They hear the commentaries. They know that while Barack Obama was out there claiming his victory in Iowa, they were standing on a stage with what looked like the '90s -- Bill Clinton, Madeleine Albright, older people. What they want this to be is her campaign now. It can't be his campaign. And they want to reach out again to those young voters -- Wolf.
BLITZER: A dramatic night for Hillary Clinton.
Candy Crowley watching every step of the way.
Let's go back to Lou -- you know, you've got to give Hillary Clinton, Lou, a lot of credit.
DOBBS: Well, I think you have to give, certainly, Senator Clinton a lot of credit. Also, Senator McCain, because we are talking about two candidates -- the victors tonight -- both of whom have been chastened, both of whom have proved to be extraordinarily adaptive -- Senator Clinton within a space of some five days. We can talk about any number of nuances and subtleties within that, but certainly a remarkable learning process for two senators who I'm sure thought before this campaign process began, that they knew it all if -- or at least most of it.
For both of them, the next stop, the most significant for all of these candidates, certainly will be South Carolina, although Michigan and, of course, Nevada lie between now and then.
Our Dan Lothian has a few thoughts on what awaits in South Carolina -- Dan.
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, as you were saying earlier, this is so important, so critical now here in South Carolina. South Carolina was important yesterday. But after what happened in New Hampshire, all of these leading candidates will be coming here.
And here is the reason why. Fifty percent of the Democratic voters in the primary are African-Americans. This will be key for Senator Clinton, Senator Obama. And because there's been an interesting dynamic that has been taking place in this state over the past few months -- those, half of those African-Americans, sort of a tug of war, who have been going for Hillary Clinton -- loyalty to Clinton and her message. And other African-Americans who are leaning toward Obama, but were concerned as to whether or not he would be electable.
That had been changing over the last few days, as he won in Iowa, as he was showing some strong numbers in New Hampshire.
But, certainly, this will be an important battle now and it has intensified because of what has happened to New Hampshire.
On the Republican side, 60 percent of the Republican primary voters are Evangelicals. So that, now, will be key for Governor Huckabee, because he really wants to tap into the Evangelical vote to make a move here in South Carolina.
So, again, a critical state. It was important yesterday, but it becomes much more important today because of what has happened in New Hampshire.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Dan.
Dan Lothian giving us a sense.
Roland Martin, by the way, saying, you know, 50 percent of those Democratic primary voters may be black, but 50 percent of them are also white. And that's a pretty good way to make the distinction, I think. It's interesting, because there is this assumption sort of built in certain quarters that Senator Obama is supposed to be becoming the candidate of blacks in this country. Senator Clinton now is the candidate of women.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: These are rather fragile definitions, aren't they, Roland?
(CROSSTALK)
BENNETT: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
MARTIN: No, absolutely, because, again, you have African- Americans who are valid -- who were waiting for whites in Iowa to validate the black candidate to give them the opportunity to say OK, now we'll vote for him.
DOBBS: Permission to vote.
MARTIN: Right. And so you had that going on. And, again, here's the concern here, OK? This is why the Obama campaign did not want John Edwards to drop out. And there will be some concern how he places.
DOBBS: Right.
MARTIN: Because if you have 50 percent African-American, how will Clinton and Obama vie for those votes?
But, also, is there a plateau, is there a cap for Obama when it comes to white voters?
DOBBS: Yes.
MARTIN: That's why when he campaigned in Republican quarters, conservative quarters, people said what are you doing, because he said I've got to speak to them, as well, because they will be voting, as well, in this primary.
DOBBS: Our colleagues, Carl Bernstein, across the vast election central here in New York, were talking about questions about Senator Obama and whether or not there was some sort of recoiling from a black candidate. I think it's really important for us to look at those numbers. This man got 37 percent of the vote, which is more than the winner of the vote in the Republican primary. This is a remarkable performance.
BERNSTEIN: Well, it's -- and, 53 percent of the voters -- the Democratic voters -- voted against Hillary Clinton. What she got tonight was the ability to run this campaign out to the end and she -- and raise money. You know, she was going to run out of there -- earlier in the day, her people -- some of them -- were heading for the exits. I was on the phone with them and they were talking about they were trying to get money, and they couldn't get money.
(CROSSTALK)
BERNSTEIN: And on top of which, she wasn't going to go to South Carolina. The plan was if this -- if they had expected to lose, if they lost the way they had expected -- and they had bought into these snapshot polls themselves to a certain extent...
MARTIN: Yes.
BERNSTEIN: ...the Clinton entourage.
DOBBS: We're looking for accomplices in this, aren't we, for others who had bought into these polls?
BERNSTEIN: Well, they are snapshots.
DOBBS: Absolutely.
BERNSTEIN: But whatever the case, you know, they were going to try and stay in this thing by going to a few states on February 5th and winning those big states.
DOBBS: Yes.
BERNSTEIN: Now, they can play the table again. That's what happened tonight...
(CROSSTALK)
BERNSTEIN: ...that's so important.
MARTIN: Fifteen percent of the New Hampshire voters didn't decide until today. And so all those who were polled yesterday, that's a huge number, 15 percent.
DOBBS: Well, John King said that Senator Clinton, before she came out with that victory speech tonight, would be rephrasing her message. And, indeed, she did.
And John King has a look at where she's going to be taking that message where Senator McCain, all the other candidates -- both Democrat and Republican -- will be carrying their message over the next several weeks and months.
And, John, I just want to compliment you because, by the way, we've -- if you're marking and keeping score, as I listened to Senator Clinton tonight, John, I think we have another populist in this race for president.
KING: The challenge in a long race, Lou, is to adapt to what the voters want.
Look, here's a look at tonight. This is the Republican race tonight. This is the Democratic race tonight.
Now the question is where are we going?
Well, here's we go from here, and it gets crowded and it gets complicated. This is the big state here Super Tuesday. I'm going to bring you back a little bit.
This is tonight, where we are. New Hampshire voted. You know the winners.
Well, where do we go next?
The next contest, the State of Michigan. That's a Republican primary. As we said, McCain and Romney -- although don't discount Huckabee. There are Christian conservatives in that state.
So what's up next after that?
You come down here. That's South Carolina and Nevada. It's -- Carolina here is for the Republicans on the 19th. Nevada over here, a big contest for the Democrats. We'll see if Obama can rebound. We're told he'll get a big endorsement there tomorrow.
Then, we take a little bit of a break. We have a CNN debate, though, here in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina for the Democrats.
Why is that so important, our debate?
Because five days later, the Democratic primary -- Roland just talked about it -- the African-American vote matters in that contest.
Then, again, the candidates will be running around the country.
The 29th, can Rudy Giuliani prove his strategy works?
That is the single question on January 29th -- can Rudy Giuliani prove that waiting was worth it?
Then it gets very busy. We have a CNN debate out in California for the Republicans on the 30th. Then the 31st we have the Democrats. And then it all might come down to this -- the flashing state. It looks complicated. More than two dozen primaries Super Tuesday, on February 5th -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, John king.
It looks like we have a little -- a little excitement awaiting us and the nation.
BLITZER: It looks like we have a pretty good story that's unfolding, which is good for all of us.
DOBBS: The idea that this campaign of Hillary Clinton's could be resurrected today -- I don't know about you, but I was absolutely thrilled to see all of the experts absolutely wrong, get kicked in the teeth and the people of New Hampshire speak -- and speak eloquently and surprisingly.
COOPER: It seems like every election we are taught that lesson and then forget that lesson the next election around, that you cannot predict anything.
DOBBS: Well, we're television newsmen. We're not supposed to be that smart.
BLITZER: The polls in the primary were supposed to be so much more accurate than the polls in a caucus. Although if you remember, "The Des Moines Register" had pretty accurate poll numbers going into the caucus on both the Republican and the Democratic side. The polls in New Hampshire, not necessarily all that accurate, including the so- called poll of polls -- the average of all the major polls.
Hillary Clinton surprised a lot of people.
DOBBS: The last refuge for all of us -- the poll of polls, when we can't quite figure out what each poll means, we can do an available.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: But it is interesting, Candy Crowley reporting just a few moments ago that people within the Clinton camp started off today, I mean, believing those polls, as well, that it wasn't just...
BLITZER: They were pretty depressed.
COOPER: ...some, you know, punditry. It was that the candidates themselves were down.
BLITZER: I suspect scholars are going to be studying this New Hampshire primary for a long time to try to figure out, A, what -- why were the pundits wrong?
But, what happened tonight?
And I suspect we're going to be getting some answers over the coming days.
MARTIN: Hey, Wolf...
DOBBS: And my guess is that Senator McCain will now have the opportunity -- with enough new money -- to pay for his own polling, rather than relying on public polling.
MARTIN: But if he did (INAUDIBLE) it out, 160,000 votes, 15 percent...
DOBBS: Roland Martin is going to continue...
MARTIN: ...vote today and 21,000 votes... DOBBS: (INAUDIBLE).
MARTIN: ...that were not in the polls yesterday.
DOBBS: Thank you for being with us.
Here's Larry King.
Good night.
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