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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
O.J. Simpson Sentenced; California Child Abuse Case
Aired December 05, 2008 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Criminal act in the public eye, O.J. Simpson near tears, asked for mercy. Here he is in his own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON, CONVICTED FELON: Your honor, I stand before you today, sorry. I'm somewhat confused. I feel like apologetic to the people of the state of Nevada. When I came here, I came here for a wedding. I didn't come here to -- I didn't come here to reclaim profit. I was told it was here.
When he told me that Monday that the stuff was in Nevada when he knew I was going to be in Nevada, I called my kids. I talked to my sisters. I called the Brown family And I told them I had a chance to get some of our property back. Property that, over the years, we've seen being sold on the Internet.
We've seen pictures of ours that was stolen from our home going into the tabloids. We've called the police and asked what to do. They've told us what to try to do. But you can never find out who was selling it. And this was first time I had an opportunity to catch the guys red-handed who had been stealing from my family.
In the past, as we know, and you heard on the tape, Mike Gilbert tried to set me up in a porn video, tricked me into a room with hidden cameras. And they still wrote in the newspaper and the tabloids -- they still had cover stories that O.J. did it, even though there was no porn video. Even though I didn't participate in it.
I forgave you, Mike. I yelled at him. And I forgave him just like I -- you know, at Bruce and Beardsley and I've forgiven them. We've talked about it, Beardsley and I the next day. And Bruce and I hugged and talked about it. His kids have called me since this. We've apologized to each other.
The only person I asked, I requested to help me here was Mr. Stewart. I did request him. I needed his car. I asked him if he had some guys to help me remove these things from the room. I didn't ask anybody to do anything but to stand behind me, allow me to yell at these guys, and then help me remove those things.
And if they wouldn't let me remove them, we would call the cops on them because I felt that they were -- they were wrong. But in no way did I mean to hurt anybody, to steal anything from anyone. I talked to the police officers. I volunteered immediately to come back. Show them what was taken. And to tell them what took place before anybody talked to the police, I was the first guy who volunteered to do it and I heard on the tapes that they thought I was stupid for doing it. But I didn't want to steal anything from anybody. I don't think anybody would be upset.
I didn't want nobody else's stuff, just my own. I wanted my -- my daughter. Miss Brown gave her -- her mother's wedding ring, stolen. You know, my kids have pictures, my oldest son has his own family now. He wanted the picture in the oval office (INAUDIBLE) when he was 5 years old, stolen.
All of these things are gone. My family knew what we're doing. And I don't want to hurt Bruce. I don't want to hurt any of these guys. I know these guys. These guys have eaten in my home. I've done book reports to their kids. I sung to their mothers when I was 6.
I wasn't there to hurt anybody. I just want my personal things and I realized that was stupid of me. I am sorry. I didn't mean to steal anything from anybody and I didn't know I was doing anything illegal. I thought I was confronting friends and retrieving my property. So I'm sorry. I'm sorry for all of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: O.J. Simpson in court today.
Let's dig deeper now with CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, author of the "Run of His Life: The People Versus O.J. Simpson." Also "In Session" anchor, Lisa Bloom.
Jeff, you've been following O.J. Simpson for his entire career. Watching him like that is just...
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Total...
COOPER: ... bizarre.
TOOBIN: ... classic O.J. Self-pity, narcissism, delusional. My favorite part of that is, he's sitting there awaiting sentencing and he's talking about, well, I forgave the other guys, I forgave them, as if he's the victim here. He never acknowledges that he did anything wrong. He says he's sorry. But he's only sorry for himself and the sort of pathological compulsive talking on and on and on is also classic O.J.
LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR, "IN SESSION": Yes, and also consider the context. He's not under oath. He could have testified at the trial. He went -- did not do.
COOPER: Right. He didn't -- he didn't testify at trial.
BLOOM: He did not testify. And of course he would have been subjected to cross examination by a skilled prosecutor then. Here he just gets to ramble. Not under oath. It's a completely different context. As the judge said, it's just too late, really, for this kind of a statement. COOPER: Do you think he did himself any favors by rambling like this in front of the judge before sentencing?
TOOBIN: Certainly not. I don't think it would have made any difference one way or another, frankly. Almost always in these circumstances the judge comes in to court knowing what he or she is going to do and I suspect that was the case here today.
So I don't think he possibly helped himself at all. Maybe he hurt himself a little but my guess is maybe. It made no difference.
BLOOM: Actually Judge Glass said she was surprised. She came into court expecting he was not going to make a statement. She said she was surprised that he wanted to make a statement. Well, go ahead, Mr. Simpson, what do you have to say?
COOPER: Do you have -- either of you have any mixed feeling about this case? I mean if this was anybody but O.J. Simpson, would this case have gone this far? Would -- the perpetrator in this case be sentenced to this amount of time?
TOOBIN: I have a lot of mixed feelings about this case. I think O.J. Simpson killed those two people. Killed Ron Goldman, killed Nicole Brown Simpson, and should be serving a life sentence today for that life crime.
I think this was a bizarre prosecution. I think, given the circumstances here, it is unlikely that someone else in those circumstances would be prosecuted for armed robbery, for kidnapping.
It was a very heavy prosecution and a heavy sentence. I don't feel sorry for O.J. Simpson. But it is somehow in keeping with the unhappiness of this whole case that even a bad guy going to jail doesn't work out properly. I know you disagree.
BLOOM: Well, with all due respect...
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: With all due respect, yes, to Jeff. I was there for three days of this trial and I watched every minute of it. Much of it repeatedly because we broadcasted it on "In Session."
First of all this is a guy who brought ganged thugs and a bunch of guns in a volatile situation in a hotel room. The planning of this incident was taped. The incident itself was taped and the aftermath was taped.
Now how law enforcement could overlook that in any case would be beyond me? Nevada has very strict guidelines as to what happens when someone is convicted of these kinds of charges.
COOPER: You don't think that this made a difference that it was O.J. Simpson?
BLOOM: He got the low end of the range, Anderson. He got a very low end of the ranger, many observers thought, including the defense attorneys thought he was going to get life in prison. He's convicted of 12 counts. It was merged to 10 counts.
They could have run consecutively, meaning end to end. He could have very easily gotten a life sentence. Instead the judge ran them concurrently, which means he could be out in nine years.
COOPER: I want to read this statement from the Brown family later on after commercial break. We're going to play what the Goldman family had to say but this is from the Brown family.
"It's very sad to think that an individual who had it all, an amazing career, a beautiful wife and two precious children, has ended up like this. Allowing wealth, power and control to consume himself, he made a horrific choice on June 12, 1994 which has spiraled into where he is today."
I mean is this, is this the end of the road for him? Is this -- is the O.J. Simpson saga over?
TOOBIN: I think -- as Lisa has explained the Nevada law to me, he has at least nine years in prison. So that takes him to age 70. I think this is the end of the road. Yes, he will probably get out at age 70. But 70 is not a time where you change your life. Maybe he comes to some -- you know, it's a quieter time, I hope.
But this is it. His -- career as a public figure is over assuming that the appeal doesn't go forward.
COOPER: Won't he...
BLOOM: That really depends on if he can control his rage in prison. You know? He's been on trial many times. This time he's finally convicted. It all stems from a certain rage in this man. You got to have good behavior in prison to get out in nine years.
COOPER: We're going to talk more about this after the break. More talk with Lisa Bloom and Jeffrey Toobin.
I'm also going to take you inside of the courtroom in a moment. What the judge said to Simpson and what the Goldman family had to say as well.
We'll ask you what you think of the verdict and also the car bailout. Join our live chat at AC360.com. You can also check out Erica Hill's live Webcast during the break.
So what happens next to O.J. Simpson? And what happened inside the courtroom today? We'll talk about that and we'll show it to you next.
Also the breaking news we're following. The outlines a deal for Detroit taking shape in dollars, votes and jobs. Dana Bash is working her sources. She'll join us for the breaking news tonight.
And see this guy? Show that -- there. This guy and his buddy groping the life-size cutout of Hillary Clinton? Would you believe the guy with his hand on the picture of Clinton, the guy on the left, is president-elect's top speechwriter?
We're going to tell you about the uproar this picture is causing tonight on "360."
ANNOUNCER: ANDERSON COOPER 360 brought to you by...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIMPSON: No, I wasn't there to hurt anybody. I just wanted my personal things and I realized that was stupid of me. I am sorry. I didn't mean to steal anything from anybody. And I didn't know I was doing anything illegal. I thought I was confronting friends and retrieving my property. So I'm sorry. I'm sorry for all of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: O.J. Simpson in a Las Vegas courtroom today shortly before learning he's going to be spending at least the next nine years in the state prison. It is the end of a very long fall that began, of course, the taking of two lives, 14 1/2 years ago.
Here's David Mattingly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go ahead and stand.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): With the cameras fixed on the fallen icon, father and sister of Ronald Goldman sitting just feet away, O.J. Simpson sounded emotional and confused.
SIMPSON: In no way did I mean to hurt anybody, to steal anything from anyone.
MATTINGLY: But a jury said he did. And the judge couldn't hold back her scorn.
JUDGE JACKIE GLASS, CLARK CO. NEVADA DISTRICT COURT: Earlier in this case at a bail hearing, I asked -- I said to Mr. Simpson, I didn't know if he was arrogant or ignorant or both. And during the trial and through this proceeding I got the answer. And it was both.
MATTINGLY: From star athlete and movie star to tabloid pariah, for many it was a seemingly endless tragedy that began with a low-speed chase and crashed to a halt with a nonstop trip to prison.
(On camera): O.J.'s spiraling decline is epic. Who could forget how he smiled as a jury acquitted him on charges he killed his ex-wife Nicole and her friend Ron Goldman but for the next 13 years he continued to cross paths with the law, sparking allegations of behavior from the violent to the absurd.
(Voice over): 2001, Simpson was cleared of charges in an alleged case of Florida road rage. 2002, he was fined for speeding his boat through a Florida manatee zone. In 2003, police came to his house after his 17-year-old daughter called 911 crying and asking for help after an argument. No charges were filed.
2004, he's ordered to pay nearly $60,000 in federal fines and fees for pirating satellite TV. In 2005, police are called again. This time a neighbor claims he was attacked by O.J.'s girlfriend. No charges were filed.
Then in 2007, Simpson and three other men are charged in an armed robbery at a cheap Las Vegas hotel room. It was the end of O.J.'s long-debated freedom.
(On camera): It was also the end of a long and frustrating pursuit by the family of Ron Goldman, who relentlessly went after O.J.'s money. They won a $25 million judgment in damages from a wrongful death suit, but winning proved to be a lot easier for the Goldmans than collecting.
(Voice over): When the 1997 judgment was handed down, he gave up all kinds of assets, including his golf clubs and his Heisman Trophy. But O.J. moved to Florida and found ways to legally protect millions in personal wealth.
But in 2006, the Goldmans managed to tap 90 percent of O.J.'s publishing rights to his book "If I Did It," and at the time of his arrest in 2007, many speculated O.J. was after his own memorabilia because he needed the money. An idea that brings Ron Goldman's father a sense of satisfaction.
FRED GOLDMAN, RON GOLDMAN'S FATHER: If our efforts for all these years of pushing him, drove him to commit burglary -- armed burglary, armed robbery in Vegas, if that pushed him over the edge, great. Put him where he belongs.
MATTINGLY: Conspiracy, robbery, burglary, kidnapping and assault with a deadly weapon -- it could all add up to a 33-year sentence with Simpson not eligible for parole until 2017.
David Mattingly, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: The Goldmans had a lot to say today. We'll bring you that in a moment. And whether O.J. Simpson would have gotten a lighter sentence had it not been from his notorious past.
Jeff Toobin and Lisa Bloom are back to talk about all aspects. Also more of what the judge had to say in the courtroom.
Also they're accused of holding a teenage boy captive in chains for more than a year. Two of the suspects in the court today. One is a Girl Scout leader and the boy's brother for the first time speaking out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He hasn't grown an inch since I have seen him. He's a still -- still the same kid. He can probably lay down on the bed and I wouldn't know that he was there. Nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Plus breaking news in the big three bailout. Word of a deal taking shape. Details ahead on "360."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOLDMAN: We're thrilled. It's kind of a bittersweet moment knowing that that SOB is going to be in jail for a very long time where he belongs. It was satisfying seeing him in shackles like he belongs. And still had that arrogant look on his face when he came in and that arrogant look on his face when he walked out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Fred Goldman today. For him and his family a long-awaited moment. No doubt about that. A moment they were denied when a jury acquitted O.J. Simpson of murder which raises the question, did today's sentencing have more to do with the L.A. murders than in the Las Vegas robbery?
We'll talk about that a little bit, as we already have with Lisa Bloom and Jeff Toobin. But first more Fred Goldman in his own words today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIM GOLDMAN, RON GOLDMAN'S SISTER: The back of his head looks the same as it did every day that we watched hip in the criminal case. And we feel very proud of our efforts. We feel very strongly that because of our pursuit of him, for all of these years that it did drive him to the brink of this.
He was acting in an arrogant fashion the same way that he did the night that he killed Ron and Nicole. He said it in court. He wanted what was his. He went back to get it the same night that he killed Ron and Nicole. I feel very proud of my father and I and our family for sticking with our commitment to Ron, to honor his memory and to keep pursuing him.
The "If I Did It Book", I think, pushed him right over the edge. I'm very proud of our efforts to taking that book back and for turning his words around. And today was a good day for our family.
F. GOLDMAN: And I -- and I was interesting. I hadn't heard it before that apparently at some point he made a comment that he himself made a comment on some tape that he wanted to make sure that we didn't get things from him.
And as Kim said a second ago, if our efforts for all these years of pushing him drove him to commit burglary, armed burglary, armed robbery in Vegas, if that pushed him over the edge, great. Put him where he belongs.
There's never closure. Ron is always gone. And what we have is satisfaction that this monster is where he belongs, behind bars.
K. GOLDMAN: When they started to talk about the minimum time that he's going to spend in jail, it's the time that he is not out causing havoc and reminding us of the pain that he caused us 14 years ago is an amazing feeling and to watch him sit there in shackles, to watch him walk back through that door.
Twice in our lifetime he's walked out the same door as our family. It was nice to see him walk back into his door and his jail cell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: All right, we're back with Jeff Toobin, Lisa bloom digging deeper. Just watching them, do you think they're right that their efforts sort of pushed O.J. Simpson to this moment?
BLOOM: I think they're right. And I'll tell you why. They've got a turnover order where O.J.'s property was supposed to be relinquished to them. This is back in 1995. And they've sought to enforce that every year since then.
Well, he said on tape with his conspirators, the reason why he went to Nevada and didn't go to the police and tried to take this stuff back this way was that the Goldmans wouldn't get the property and in fact the whole confusion about whose property this is all stems from the fact that O.J. and a lot of people who worked with him at the time and since written books about it, he confessed to it, tried to hide property from the Goldmans.
So I do think, not just in an indirect way, but in a pretty direct way they did drive him to what he did.
TOOBIN: I also think there was a simple matter of character as well. O.J. Simpson is someone who has a rage problem to say the least. Even before he murdered Ron and Nicole, he had that -- he'd been arrested for domestic violence. Subsequently as we heard in David Mattingly's piece, he's been arrested. I don't know exactly what precipitated this incident but the rage was there and it was going to come out again.
COOPER: It is amazing to see David Mattingly's piece, I mean, all these instances of -- I mean driving the thing in the manatee zone and -- it begs the question, are there -- you know, because he was so well known and infamous was he more of a target for law enforcement, or does he, in fact, have this, as you say, a rage problem that -- I mean I don't know of many people who have that much problem with the law.
TOOBIN: How many people have a domestic violence conviction, which by the way he was convicted? It was a misdemeanor but he was convicted of domestic violence against Nicole. And years later after he's acquitted of her murder, his daughter calls 911 against him?
BLOOM: Right. TOOBIN: That's pretty unusual.
BLOOM: Well, in fact, practically everyone...
TOOBIN: I think that's indicative of a character.
BLOOM: ... in contact with him talks about this rage. Mike Gilbert, his former agent, Tom Riccio, one of these conspirators.
TOOBIN: And the paradoxes it's simultaneous with the nicest guy in the world. I mean a lot of people love this guy, at least before -- you know the murder. He had many friends. He was a good friend to many people. The rage was present but it wasn't always present.
BLOOM: But look at how far he's fallen, too. Look at who his friends were in 2007. This gang and thugs...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: I want to play just some of what the judge said today. She made a point to say look, this isn't about O.J. Simpson's past. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLASS: I stated to the group that if this was -- if they were here because they wanted to punish Mr. Simpson for what had happened previously, then this wasn't the case for them. And I meant that.
As the judge in this case, I'm not here to sentence Mr. Simpson for what's happened in his life previously in the criminal justice system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We've already talked about that. O.J. Simpson has said, his people have said that they're going to appeal it. Is there grounds for appeal here?
TOOBIN: There're always some grounds for appeal, but most grounds fail. And most appeals don't succeed and I think this is unlikely to succeed. I think he's got a little better chance than most people because of the racial makeup of the jury, because of the...
COOPER: It was all white jury.
TOOBIN: Yes, although, but...
BLOOM: Although there were two African-American alternates.
TOOBIN: But -- but the other thing, it doesn't feel like armed robbery or kidnapping. Yes, there are similar cases like that, but I could see an appeals court judge saying, you know, this case was overcharged. Given what went on, this was too heavy duty a prosecution.
BLOOM: I want to say this about the appeal. You know I sat in a big chunk of that trial. This judge bent over backwards to make rulings favorable to the defense. She was well aware that everything she did was going to be combed over by an appeals court.
She threw out a big chunk of the prosecution's case halfway through the trial that commentators like me complained about. But now that the prosecution won, nevertheless, that's very helpful for them in getting this case to stick.
So I really -- other than the fact of the racial makeup of the jury which is a little bit of a problem, other than that, I really don't see a reversal on the appeal.
COOPER: Nine years he'll be available for parole. Will the bar be higher for him?
TOOBIN: It's hard to say because he'll be 70 years old. There are not a lot of 70-year-old men in prison. Most of the time parole boards are pretty generous when you get to that age.
But he's O.J. Simpson. And who knows whether that rage will surface in prison and create a record where they can't give him parole. So I would say the odds favor him getting it out but...
COOPER: But in special custody or anything? I mean...
BLOOM: He should be as a celebrity he should be getting protection which means it's going to be a lonely life for O.J. in state prison. He'll probably be alone. About 23 hours out the day if he requests then he probably will, but he may see himself as the gregarious guy who wants to interact, wants to have a cell mate.
By the way, Nevada is a very conservative law and order state. You know we think of Las Vegas as crazy, wild and fun. But the parole board is unlikely to grant a first-time request for parole to anyone even to O.J.
COOPER: All right, Lisa Bloom, Jeff Toobin, thanks very much.
Still ahead, too many people, you're seeing too much water. How close are we to running dry? We're on the front line for battle over natural resources next on "360."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Our world wide investigation, "PLANET IN PERIL BATTLE LINES," on to air next Thursday. The documentary focuses on places where there's conflict over natural resource, over oil and food and wildlife. Those conflicts are happening right now and they're expected to get worse.
Water is a major concern. There are too many people using too much water and there's a legitimate fear we'll simply run out of fresh water supplies.
Our "PLANET IN PERIL" partner "TIME" magazine writes about it in their issue this weekend. Erica Hill talks about did with "TIME" science editor Jeffrey Kluger.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Jeff, the earth is 70 percent water, basically. Yet there are over a billion people world wide who don't have access to clean water. And that number could conceivably grow and very quickly. Why are we in this position?
JEFFREY KLUGER, SCIENCE EDITOR, TIME: Well, first of all, we should remember that while the earth has 326 quintillion gallons of water, only 1,000th of 1 percent of that is available to us as fresh water. The rest is either salt water or it's locked up in polar caps. So we don't have access to it.
Meantime the global population is exploding even as people know that they should -- they should control birthrates and as a result we have 6.6 billion people in the world today and we could be up to 9 billion by 2050.
HILL: So is this simply that the -- that there is too much population in the world for the amount of available fresh water?
KLUGER: Well, that's part of it. The other part is -- a big x factor now is global warming because remember water can't be destroyed. We have the exact same amount of water on the planet today that we have billions of years ago -- or millions at least and we'll have the same amount millions from now.
The difference is where the water is. Water evaporates. Water redistributes. And global warming helps exacerbate that inequitable distribution because it dries out some area and causes inundations -- inundation in other areas.
HILL: And I think -- for a lot of people, I know myself included, for a long time when you hear about water shortages you automatically think drought and there's not enough drinking water. But the implications actually go far beyond that.
In fact, a lack of water or available water actually helped lead to some of the food riots we saw earlier this year. Give us an idea of how they're connected.
KLUGER: Well, a lot of that came from the drought in Australia, which has been going on since 2002 and essentially led to a collapse of the agricultural output in Australia that year which meant very little rice which is one the staples Australia produces and as a result that rice couldn't be exported.
HILL: Here in New York City, for example. How are you going to convince people that they need to start conserving now?
KLUGER: Well, one thing you do is you try to raise people's awareness. But that is not always the most successful thing. Another thing is simply to make it costs something. What Las Vegas is finding is that though their population has grown by 300,000 in recent years, they've drastically cut their water use and they've done that simply by pricing water according to how much you used and by issuing summonses very much like parking tickets for water waste.
HILL: So -- then give us the big picture there. The things that we can do but there are still a very real threat that several places on this planet could run out of water.
KLUGER: Well, that's exactly right. And one of the problems is that the driest places in the world also happen to be the places where population is growing the most and we're development is the most need.
A perfect example of that, again, is India. So you have these three very dangerous lines converging. Too many people, too little water and too much poverty. And that's a prescription for a societal collapse or at least in economic and nutritional collapse.
HILL: So those are the areas where efforts need to be focused first?
KLUGER: Exactly.
HILL: Jeffrey Kluger, thank you.
KLUGER: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: You can read more about "Water Worries" in this week's issue "TIME" magazine and you can go to CNN.com/planetinperil for a preview of this year's investigation airing Thursday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.
ANNOUNCER: "Uncovering America" brought to you by...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: There's late word tonight that Congress may be close to a deal to salvage the big three automakers. The three CEOs testified for a second straight day on Capitol Hill, making their case for billions in loans on a day that brought truly devastating economic news.
More than half million Americans lost their jobs last month. The worst job losses in 34 years. GM also said its cutting 2,000 more jobs and a record number of homeowners are either behind in their mortgage payments or in foreclosure. All of it apparently driving lawmakers closer to a compromise for Detroit.
Dana Bash joins us with the breaking news. Dana?
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Well, what are we told from multiple sources, Anderson, is that there is now general agreement on where the money (INAUDIBLE) would try to come from.
Now for weeks that has really been at the center of the deadlock here. And we found out earlier this evening that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi actually backed down on her opposition to rescuing the auto industry using funds intended to make environmentally sound cars. That has the money that the president and congressional Republicans have been pushing for. And one official I talked to said that Pelosi reversed herself because of what you just talked about, the devastating jobs report today. That, you know, the worst jobs report in three decades.
One source I talked to said that that changed everything. And that because of that she's willing to use these funds but she makes clear, only if those funds are replenished, Anderson.
COOPER: So what details do we know about the bailout plan in a word?
BASH: You know I am cautioned that -- by sources that I'm talking to involved in this is that the details are still very vague and that they're actually going to be likely hammered out this weekend.
However, I'm told that a central idea right now in these compromised talks is to loan Detroit $15 to $17 billion. And that would be to potentially fund these companies through March. But I'm warned by sources that there are other possibilities that may emerge as talks continue.
But the other thing I'm told is that in exchange for that loan, they're very likely will be a strict government role in restructuring these auto companies either with the government oversight board or a so-called car czar.
COOPER: A car czar?
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: You know, there's so many czars being proposed for so many different things. It's like imperial Russia. What's the timeframe for -- this bailout plan, do we know?
BASH: What we know is that the House leaders and the Senate Democratic leaders both announced today that they actually hope to have some kind of packages on the floor of the House and the Senate by some time next week and they've actually already announced plans to come into session.
You know it really is impossible to overemphasize the fact that this deadlock has been in place for some time, for weeks and weeks. And it really wasn't the fact that these auto executives came up for the second time today and tried to put through plans in place.
It wasn't that at all. It was this -- this unemployment report that came out. It really was like a bomb that dropped on Washington. It really was a wake-up call for them.
COOPER: All right, Dana Bash, appreciate the reporting on the breaking news. Thanks.
Up next, we'll take a -- more on, this we'll talk with David Gergen, Candy Crowley and "New York Times" business editor Marcus Mabry. We'll also talk about a Facebook photo that's getting a lot of attention because the guy on the left is Obama's chief speechwriter. He appears to be groping a cutout of Hillary Clinton. New developments on the story today.
Also ahead, new developments in the shocking story of a teen shackled, allegedly held captive in California. One of the alleged captors a Girl Scout leader, if you can believe it. That woman there. Now the victim's brother who he was separated from is speaking out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AUSTIN, SHACKLED TEEN'S BROTHER: You know, it's not -- he's used to sitting in this position. He sits there like this, or he sits with his legs curled up to his side. It's -- it doesn't look like he has moved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Crime and punishment coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: All right. More on tonight's breaking news. Signs of a compromise on a package of bridge loans for GM, Ford and Chrysler.
Joining us once again is Dana Bash who broke the story for us tonight along with Marcus Mabry, international business editor for "The New York Times," CNN senior political analyst and former presidential adviser, David Gergen, he's in North Carolina tonight. And in Chicago CNN's Candy Crowley.
So Candy, Obama released a statement today on the economy and he said, "There are no quick or easy fixes to this crisis which has been many years in the making and it's likely to get worse before it gets better. Now is not the time to respond -- now is the time to respond with urgent resolve to put people back to work and get our economy moving again."
It's interesting though, Candy. I mean he talked about repairing roads and modernizing schools and clean energy, he doesn't, though, directly address in any big way the auto bailout. Is that -- clearly that seems to be intentional.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely it's intentional. First of all, there are talks going on at various levels of the Obama transition team with people on Capitol Hill about that auto bailout.
But intentionally they have stayed clear of this. There is absolutely no benefit to Barack Obama to jump in to the middle of this. You know we talk all of the time about how presidents have capital to spend and he certainly had a healthy win and will have that once he moves into office.
But the fact of the matter is, it was so uncertain until apparently tonight, as Dana was reporting, what was going to happen on Capitol Hill. There was no real reason for Barack Obama to spend capital even before he took office. So they took a fairly hands-on approach -- hands-off approach although he gave some broad outlines that he would have preferred.
COOPER: Dana, do we know what they are still debating in order get this deal done? I mean what still is in contention?
BASH: So I mean I think -- maybe a better way to ask is, what aren't they still debating? Because look, I mean the big divide, as we talked about earlier, was where the money is going to come from, but there are so many different perspectives and sets of philosophy about what should and shouldn't be done that -- that's going on right now on Capitol Hill and that really is the challenge for all of these lawmakers.
You know, basically, how this will be structured and what kind of oversight will these -- will these companies have. And if the government is going to be really that involved in restructuring, how much and what's really appropriate?
So those are just some of the questions that are not yet answered...
COOPER: Yes.
BASH: ... and they really are going to be working very hard over the weekend to try to figure it out.
COOPER: David Gergen -- but are you confident that a deal is going to be done?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, it's inevitable with this job report, this terrible job report today, along with the fact that Barack Obama has indicated that he does not want these companies to fail. They're going to hammer on a compromise.
I would imagine, Anderson, some of the big questions will be kicked down the road. Just as the big, the big, you know, the big bailout is going to come now and during the Obama presidency but they'll have three months of funding of some sort. They'll find some sort of bridge funds.
I don't think that'll be very hard but the big questions about how you restructure the industry, the car czar, how that will work and all these other questions. I imagine a lot of that will be postponed.
But you know, Barack Obama seized this moment today to push for more support for his own stimulus package. And he has a Gallup Poll now that says 58 percent of Americans support him in seeking some $500 to $700 billion in general for stimulus.
And I think he'll also have be able to build more support for a long- term restructuring of the automobile industry because by the time the Congress comes back and he comes into office, you know, the fact is -- the unhappy fact is unemployment's going to be even higher than it is today. COOPER: Marcus, can we just keep spending money? I mean, can we just keep -- coming up with $700 billion packages?
MARCUS MABRY, SENIOR INTL. BUSINESS EDITOR, NEW YORK TIMES: Well, unfortunately, Anderson, the answer is yes. We can keep spending money. There's going to be a price to pay and that's going to come in the form of inflation.
We don't know when that place -- inflation is going to happen. We don't know how long it's going to last or how badly that inflation will be, but we know that there is a short-term problem right now which is that, you know, half a million Americans lost their jobs in the last month alone.
COOPER: Which is stunning. I mean that number is just...
MABRY: The worst number in 34 years, it's extraordinary. And what it means at this point in the recession we're already a year into this recession we know now. What it means is if we're a year into the recession and we're seeing numbers like that those numbers are likely to keep growing which means the recession is likely to be long, deep and very painful.
COOPER: More, longer and deeper than anyone thought.
MABRY: Actually, longer and deeper than probably any recession at this point is pretty clear since the Great Depression.
COOPER: Just on some political news, Candy, I want to show our viewers this photo that's making waves inside of the beltway of Obama's head speechwriter, Jon Favreau, on the left basically seen -- apparently groping a picture of Senator Clinton.
The -- what -- what do you make of that? I mean is this...
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Is this an issue? The photos was posted, I guess, by a friend of this guy's on Facebook. It was taken down a couple of hours later.
The "Washington Post" reached out to Senator Clinton for a comment and Clinton adviser said, and I quote, "Senator Clinton is pleased to learn of Jon's obvious interest in the State Department and is currently reviewing his application."
(LAUGHTER)
CROWLEY: So listen, if she's not going to quibble with it, I'm not going to quibble with it. I mean, you know, the fact of the matter is not everybody in the Obama campaign could actually be countered as adults on occasion probably when liquor is involved. So if she's going to brush it off, I'm not sure it's going to become some major deal in the months ahead, particularly when we have the jobless situation as it is. COOPER: It is interesting, though, David, what a difference a couple of months make. I mean has this been during the campaign, this would have been huge.
GERGEN: It would have been, but Anderson, I have to say, this is one of the few times this I've heard you groping for words.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Yes, well, I think we're just going to leave it all there.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: I also want to turn to the transition team. There has been speculation over who's going to fill Hillary Clinton's Senate seat. Caroline Kennedy appears to be, at least being talked to, by the governor of New York. At least talked to once. Apparently there may be another meeting this, this weekend.
Is this for real, David?
GERGEN: Well, it's fascinating. The fact that she's willing to sit down and talk about it suggests that she's giving it real consideration. I've known Caroline Kennedy through the Kennedy School and she's passionate about -- about our quality of our politics but she's always wanted to maintain a private reserve and that she's been a very private person.
So this would be a big, big surprise. People have speculated whether she might go to the Senate, go to the U.N. -- that job is now taken -- or become ambassador to the court of St. James in London, which would also have a real -- that would be fitting in many ways given her family history.
But I don't think any of us expected she would be this far along in thinking about it so it's possible.
COOPER: Marcus, what do you make of it?
MABRY: Well, you know, it's a lot more work to be in the Senate representing the great state of New York than it is to be over representing the United States before the British courts. So I'd be very impressed if she were to do it.
The fact is, you know, I think -- some of what represents excitement that she's had about this particular president-elect.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Yes. Go ahead.
BASH: Anderson...
COOPER: Yes.
BASH: ... the only thing I was going to say is that just from the perspective of the United States Senate, I spoke to a couple of Democratic sources who are familiar with the, with the Kennedys and -- certainly know her and know people who know her who still say that they would be surprised if she actually took this.
But you know what, given the way this year has been, ending with this kind of surprise, wouldn't be a surprise.
COOPER: David, did you want to say something?
GERGEN: No, thank you.
COOPER: All right. I thought that you wanted to get one more story in about Jon Favreau.
GERGEN: I just one more grope. One more grope.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Yes, all right, we will leave it there.
David Gergen, Marcus Mabry, Dana Bash, Candy Crowley. Thanks.
Still ahead, some shocking new developments in the case of a teenager -- allegedly held captive in chains for more than a year. Tonight, more clues about how he ended up with his alleged captors and new details about the abuse he allegedly suffered. His brother speaking out next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Hidden behind this California home, a teen was allegedly shackled. Those are the allegations and the case is disturbing as it is bizarre. A former Girl Scout leader, sorry, a Girl Scout leader and her husband -- there they are -- were arraigned yesterday charged with more than a dozen kidnapping and child abuse charges.
Their alleged victim, a teenage boy who, just days ago, ran into a gym begging for help wearing nothing but boxer shorts and a chain around his ankle. Police say he was held captive for more than a year. There are new and some disturbing details tonight from the teen's brother who's speaking out.
Here's Erica Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AUSTIN: He hasn't grown an inch since I have seen him. He still, still the same kid. He can probably lay down on the bed and I wouldn't know he was there. That's how skinny he is.
HILL: 19-year-old Austin describing his younger brother, the same boy who escaped from a northern California home earlier this week, covered in dirt wearing only boxer shorts and a shackle around his ankle.
AUSTIN: He's terrified. You know? It's -- he's used to sitting in this position and he sits there like this or he sits with his legs curled up to the side. It was -- it doesn't look like he has any legs.
HILL: According to Austin, that's because his brother's legs were chained to a table. Prosecutors named Kelly Lau and her husband with Michael Schumacher, along with Caren Ramirez in this 14-page indictment. Among the charges, kidnapping and sadistically using a baseball bat, belt and knife to torture the boy for more than a year.
ANGELA HAYES, SAN JOAQUIN COUNTY PROSECUTOR: You've seen the nature of charges from torture to aggravated mayhem to false imprisonment to corporal injury, inflicting great bodily injury, so I think the charges speak for themselves.
HILL: Lau and Schumacher in shackles themselves as they were charged with 13 felony counts of child abuse did not enter pleas. They are being held on $2.2 million bond each.
Caren Ramirez is expected to make a court appearance on Monday.
(On camera): How the teen knows Ramirez, though, is still unclear. We do know she was the guardian for him and his brother after they were taken from their parents because of abuse.
Austin tells a local TV station Ramirez also abused him. He left Ramirez's care for a foster home. His little brother was eventually sent to a group home after Ramirez was charged with child abuse. Police say he then ran away about 18 months ago and ended up back with Ramirez.
(Voice over): A former teacher says the teen referred to Ramirez as mom. Police say the two are not related. That same teacher had fond memories of her former student.
BONNIE, SHACKLED TEEN'S FMR. TEACHER: I have vivid pictures of him laughing and singing and -- and just being a normal, happy kid. And his potential was taken.
HILL: The teen is now in the custody of Sacramento County Child Protective Services. His brother says he'll do anything to help him and is trying to be strong.
AUSTIN: I try not to sit there and cry in front of him. He told me to stop crying.
HILL: Austin and the former teacher said they called Child Protective Services for help on more than one occasion. The department told us it cannot comment on specific cases.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: Now in a jailhouse interview this week, Kelly Lau told a San Francisco TV station she was afraid Caren Ramirez would harm her four children if she didn't discipline, in her words, the teen as Ramirez did. Those children, Anderson, ages 1 through 9, are now in protective custody.
COOPER: So terrible. All right. Thanks. The shot is next. It looks kind of painful but this Japanese artist seems to be trying to create a new dance craze of some sort. We'll explain what this guy is doing in "The Shot" tonight ahead.
ANNOUNCER: "360 News and Business Bulletin," brought to you by...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Get ready for a pun. Our "Shot" tonight, a new twist on facing the music.
HILL: Oh! Pun number one.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Yes. So this Japanese artist, composer, music producer, attached electrodes to his face that are then hooked up to a keyboard, programmed to play electronic music. The music sends electrical impulses to his facial muscles making them twitch along with the sounds. Watch and enjoy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Catchy, isn't it?
COOPER: Yes, some folks in here thought he was just doing math but no. In fact, it's electrodes and...
HILL: Apparently completely sober.
COOPER: He calls it face dancing. And every performance -- yes. I'm not going to say...
HILL: Electrifying.
COOPER: No. I'm not going to say that pun. And we saw that first on AndrewSullivan.com. So there we go.
HILL: Good stuff.
COOPER: Good stuff.
HILL: Happy Friday.
COOPER: Do not try that at home.
HILL: No, absolutely not.
COOPER: Do not try that at home.
HILL: And don't send us a picture if you try it either.
COOPER: We don't want to know, yes.
HILL: We told you not to do it.
COOPER: We don't want to be responsible.
HILL: Don't involve us in that.
COOPER: That does it for this edition of "360." Thanks for watching. "LARRY KING" starts now. I'll see you on Monday.
