Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
New Evidence Revealed in Craigslist Murder Case; Miss California Controversy Continues
Aired April 22, 2009 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: reports of disturbing new evidence in the Craigslist murder case, physical evidence we're talking about, items that could change the case against Philip Markoff, making him even less of a straight arrow in the eyes of authorities, and, perhaps, a jury, evidence that, if legitimate, suggests that Markoff, who is being held without bail right now in the killings of one Craigslist masseuse and the robbery of another, wasn't doing it for the money or out of rage, but something else, something more sinister.
Again, that is if the evidence is legitimate and if a jury agrees. For now, Mr. Markoff is simply a young man awaiting trial for a very serious crime.
That said, today's revelations could be damaging.
We begin with "Crime & Punishment, the new evidence, and Randi Kaye.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Inside the apart he shares with his fiancee, suspected Craigslist killer Philip Markoff may have kept women's underwear in a medical book titled "Gray's Anatomy of the Human Body," souvenirs, if you will, from his alleged victims.
Two Boston newspapers and ABC News report that information comes from law enforcement sources. The paper sources called the garments mementos, but did not say from which alleged victims they were taken. When we asked, neither Boston police nor the district attorney would confirm or deny the report.
But, if it's true, this criminologist says it may be a token of success.
JAMES ALAN FOX, CRIMINOLOGIST, NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY: We all like to keep of our successes, whether it's in sports or in business. And here is a souvenir of his success at being an offender.
KAYE: Also tonight, new information about the moment Markoff was arrested. He was not alone.
A spokesman for the district attorney told me Markoff's fiancee, seen here on their wedding Web site, as with him in the car, and headed for Foxwoods Casino. He says Markoff had $1,000 in cash. Markoff is charged with murder in one attack, kidnapping and armed robbery in another.
His lawyer did not return numerous calls, but said in court he's not guilty.
Investigators say Markoff met his alleged victims through ads for erotic services they posted on Craigslist. Prosecutors say Markoff tried to rob Julissa Brisman before he murdered her. ABC News reports, Markoff went gambling two days later and won $5,300.
(on camera): The DA's spokesman says gambling debt is just one possible motive. He says Markoff may have had a darker motive, not just a purely financial one. The spokesman says Markoff chose vulnerable women who would be reluctant to speak out.
(voice-over): But one alleged victim is speaking out. She told a Boston television station she thought the man in this hotel surveillance tape was her attacker, who she says is Markoff. Investigators say the woman was bound and robbed in this Westin Hotel in Boston. She says she survived because she didn't fight back.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just complied with everything he wanted me to do, and I didn't resist him in any way.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KAYE: The woman says Markoff only wanted her money, nothing else. She says he duct-taped her mouth before he left the hotel room without a word.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I twisted out of my ties within one minute after he was gone.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KAYE (on camera): Because of the charges, Philip Markoff is now suspended from medical school here at Boston University. But his former lab partner, Tiffany Montgomery, told a Boston newspaper, he was -- quote -- "Strange, strange in a dark way."
She told the paper she had class with him for years. She recalled his mood swings and described him as disturbed.
(voice-over): Years before that, a smiling Philip Markoff in his high school yearbook. He was a member of the bowling team and golf league, next to his baby picture, a note about his poker skills -- a different time, a different life, before the shackles and the burning question: Did he do it?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: You know, after every one of these cases, Randi, the -- the people who know the -- the alleged suspect always say, you know, they're completely surprised, or, you know, that they didn't think this person was capable of doing this.
KAYE: That's right, Anderson. And, certainly, his clean-cut, preppie good looks have a lot of people asking, could he do this?
And criminologist James Alan Fox, who we interviewed for our story tonight, says, if -- and I want to stress if -- Markoff did this, his respectable looks make him more capable of a crime spree like this. If he didn't look clean-cut, say, if he looked like a monster, our expert says the women likely would never have let him through the hotel room door.
He looked so extraordinarily ordinary, that James Alan Fox says, the victims let their guard now. Of course, this was discussed now, I want to say again, in the context of if Markoff actually did this.
COOPER: All right, Randi Kaye in Boston -- Randi, thanks.
You heard a bit in Randi's report from another alleged victim. It turns out she has got a lot more to say. And you can hear all of it. The complete interview is on our Web site at AC360.com right now.
By the time this is over, though, millions of people will have a picture of Philip Markoff, but, already, as you saw in Randi's report, the image is turning out darker than that of a smiling young man and his loving fiancee, as you see right here from their Web site.
Nobody's life is as pretty as a picture. And hints of darkness rarely make someone a killer. In this case, his fiancee, Megan McAllister, says he's completely innocent. But, if she's wrong, and if he's a murderer, she won't have been the first fiancee or spouse to have shared her life with a monster.
More from Erica Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the face of serious charges leveled against her fiance, Megan McAllister insists Phil Markoff is incapable of hurting a fly. His attorney Markoff is not guilty.
But what if Markoff is eventually found guilty? If that were to happen, and if it turns out he was leading a dangerous double life, wouldn't many people ask how a woman could be engaged to such a man and not know?
JEFFREY GARDERE, CLINICAL AND FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Even though she was in an intimate relationship with him, emotionally, if not physically, she may not have had the wherewithal to know that this was someone who could have had some serious pathology.
HILL: There's Amber Frey, former girlfriend of Scott Peterson, who was convicted in 2004 of killing his wife, Laci Peterson, and their unborn son.
AMBER FREY, FORMER GIRLFRIEND OF SCOTT PETERSON: Scott told me he was not married. We did have a romantic relationship.
HILL: There's also the wife of Dennis Rader, the so-called BTK killer. A church elder and Boy Scout leader, he terrorized Kansas for 31 years, murdering 10 people. But, throughout the killing spree, his wife, Paula, raised two children with him.
There is also the case of notorious serial killer and rapist Ted Bundy. And during part of Bundy's wave of violence, he was dated and even got engaged to a woman named Stephanie Brooks, who some say had an uncanny resemblance to many of his victims.
Jeff Gardere, a clinical and forensic psychologist who has studied these types of cases, say some women are simply susceptible to these killers and charmed into looking the other way.
GARDERE: I think what we have seen with some of these sociopaths are that some of them have been very handsome. They may have very good skills at manipulating women and manipulating the system.
The other thing that we often see in these sorts of cases where women are involved with very notorious men is that they are in denial as to what it is that they may see as very disturbing signs in their behavior.
HILL: And Dr. Gardere says there's actually a lesson here for everyone.
GARDERE: At the end of the day, you really need to know someone. You really need to know what they're capable of. You really need to know them in every arena of their lives.
HILL: Erica Hill, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: A lot of people talking about this on the blog. Join the live chat. It's happening now at AC360.com. And check out Erica Hill's live Webcasts throughout the hour night.
More after the break on what we know about Philip Markoff.
Also ahead tonight, inside a part of the world where the Taliban is gaining ground, a part of the world with nuclear weapons. We will show you how life changes when the mullahs take over and how life for America could be getting riskier because of it.
New allegations against Melissa Huckaby, who's already facing murder charges for the killing of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu, allegations about the disappearance and apparent drugging of another young girl, with Huckaby on tape shortly before her arrest.
And, later, the Miss USA controversy and your chance to ask Roland Martin for his take on same-sex marriage. Text 360 at 94553. Remember, though, make sure to create a new message starting with A.C., space, your name, and then your question. Again, text to 360, starting with A.C., space, name, and question to 94553. We're talking about Miss California's answer about same-sex marriage and what it's like in her country.
And, only on CNN, Levi Johnston reveals Sarah Palin's reaction when she found out her daughter was pregnant, and Levi was the dead.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: We have been talking about Philip Markoff and allegations about other killers leading double lives and frequently the women who love them, or at least who always seem surprised when the cops come calling, and their boyfriend or spouse is shown to be a monster.
Philip Markoff may or may not be a monster, a killer, a guy with dark secrets, or absolutely none of the above. He's being held without bail right now on a murder charge and reports he kept personal items, including panties, from his alleged victims, have jolted the case today, that and allegations from one of his alleged victims speaking about the man who she says bound, gagged and robbed her in a Boston hotel room.
Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
WCVB REPORTER: What would you like to see happen to him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Be put away behind bars for the rest of his life.
WCVB REPORTER: If you saw him, like, in the room today, and you were in the courthouse, what would you say?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I probably wouldn't say anything. I would just look at him and shake my head.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: Some insight now. Joining us, criminologist Jack Levin.
Jack, the fact that Markoff may have kept his victims' underwear hidden in his apartment, what does that say to you?
JACK LEVIN, PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY AND CRIMINOLOGY, NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY: Well, it -- it tells you that he collected trophies, mementos, souvenirs of his crimes.
It indicates to me that he saw this as a great adventure. These were cherished moments that he spent with his victims humiliating them and degrading them. And he...
COOPER: What do you mean by cherished moments? Like...
LEVIN: I know. You know, to a normal person, that doesn't make sense. But, to someone like the suspect, this could have been a tremendous adventure for him. This could have been some of the greatest accomplishments he's ever had in his life. And he wanted to reminisce. So, he kept souvenirs around in his apartment, so that he could think about the good times that he had terrorizing his victims.
COOPER: Because, I mean, anybody who has seen any cop show, has any sense in their head at all, you -- you wouldn't keep anything linking you to -- to the victim.
LEVIN: But, you see, you're assuming that he thought that they would find him, identify him, that -- that they wouldn't be able to find his apartment.
You know, I think some of these guys make big mistakes. They could be very smart. He could be an excellent doctor someday. But that doesn't mean that he's a good murderer. Keep in mind, you don't go to school to learn how to murder. You don't get trained in it, for the most part. And you have got one chance. So, you can see, the smartest people in life make the stupidest mistakes when they commit murder.
COOPER: His fiancee said -- and I quote -- that he's a beautiful person inside and out and couldn't hurt a fly. His college professor said he was driven and that he wasn't disruptive.
I mean, what do you make of when you hear this, you know, seemingly mild-mannered person suddenly is accused of doing this? How do you reconcile those -- those descriptions?
LEVIN: You know, I have seen this so many times.
And I think it's -- it's unfair to criticize his fiancee for -- so -- because she didn't recognize that she was living with a monster. He didn't look like Freddy Krueger. He didn't look like Jason on "Friday the 13th" part 152, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't an all-American sociopath.
And sociopaths are experts at impression management. They're playing a role on the big stage of life. They look more innocent than an innocent man. They're the last person you would suspect.
And, keep in mind, it's not just the fiancee who thought this. It was the whole range of his friends and family members. And that is typical. There's a small circle of people who -- with whom the killer has very good relations. None of them believes it.
COOPER: It's -- it's fascinating and disturbing.
Jack Levin, appreciate your expertise. Thanks.
LEVIN: Sure.
COOPER: Coming up next: striking gains by the Taliban, putting -- this is unbelievable stuff -- they're -- they're now within a striking distance of a key American ally -- of the capital of a key American ally, an ally that's got the bomb.
Also, remember to text us your questions on the Miss California same-sex marriage controversy. She says her answer cost her the Miss USA title. What she said is triggering outrage, both sides of the issue. Text us your question for our panelists, Roland Martin and Michelangelo Signorile.
That's A.C., space, your name, and question, to 94553.
And, later, did the alleged killer of one little girl kidnap and drug another? New allegations tonight you need to hear about.
And Susan Boyle's makeover -- she said she wasn't about to change after her sudden success, but does she have a new look? We will show you. And find out whether you think it was a good idea or whether she's making a mistake by changing what she's wearing -- when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: In Washington, there's growing alarm over the Taliban's latest push toward Pakistan's capital. They now control an area some 60 miles from Islamabad.
Now, on Capitol Hill today, Secretary of State Clinton criticized Pakistan's government for doing too little to stop them.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I do want to talk about Pakistan, which I think poses a mortal threat to the security and safety of our country and the world.
I think that we cannot underscore the seriousness of the existential threat posed to the state of Pakistan by the continuing advances, now within hours of Islamabad, that are being made by a loosely-confederated groups of terrorists and others who are seeking the overthrow of the Pakistani state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: A mortal threat in the overthrow of the Pakistani state, strong words.
There are high stakes that we're talking about. Remember, Pakistan has nuclear weapons. So, how bad is it?
Ivan Watson has more in his 360 dispatch from Islamabad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Taliban militants patrol the streets just 60 miles from the Pakistani capital. Hundreds of Taliban fighters moved in to Buner district from the neighboring Swat Valley, which they already control. Their commander says they're here to enforce Islamic Sharia law. Residents say the militants also warned barbers to stop shaving men's beards and stores to stop selling music and movies.
Last week, the Pakistani government signed a peace deal with this pro-Taliban cleric, Sufi Mohammed, allowing Sharia law to be imposed in Swat. On Sunday, he appeared before a crowd of thousands and denounced democracy, the Pakistani government, and the Pakistani legal system, calling them un-Islamic.
He said he wanted to spread Islamic justice across the rest of Pakistan. The same demand recently made here in Islamabad by hard- line cleric Maulana Abdul Aziz. Fresh out of prison, he told thousands of worshipers praying in the streets of the Pakistani capital that the time had come for Islamic law.
The Taliban's already been carrying out its own form of vigilante justice in territories under its control. In a phone interview, the Taliban spokesman in Swat, Muslim Khan, told me that anyone who disagreed with their rule was a non-Muslim, and he said Osama bin Laden would be welcome in Taliban-controlled territory.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Sure, he's a Muslim. He can go anywhere. He can go anywhere in Pakistan.
WATSON: The Taliban have terrified lawyers in Swat, like Aftab Alam.
(on camera): Is it dangerous to criticize the Taliban in Swat valley right now?
AFTAB ALAM, PRESIDENT, SWAT BAR ASSOCIATION: Of course.
WATSON: Why?
ALAM: No comments.
WATSON: The Pakistani government has made a series of concessions in an attempt to appease the Taliban and undermine its base of popular support. That strategy now appears to have failed. The Taliban are emboldened and the militants are creeping closer to the capital of this nuclear-armed country.
Ivan Watson, CNN, Islamabad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Let's dig deeper now. Let's bring in national security analyst Peter Bergen, who has spent a lot of time in Afghanistan, and Pakistan, as well.
Pakistan -- Peter, is Pakistan in danger of falling into terrorists' hands, into the Taliban's hands? And -- and would that be a mortal threat to America?
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, it certainly would be a mortal threat to America. As you know, Anderson, you know, the Taliban is headquartered in Pakistan. Al Qaeda is headquartered in Pakistan. If that extend that hold of territory, that is -- that's a big deal.
I'm skeptical of the notion that they -- they pose a mortal threat right now. You know, they're near Islamabad, the capital, but the capital is pretty well-defended. It's very near a -- the major military headquarters of the Pakistani army.
But the problem that we have seen -- and, Anderson, this goes back to 2006, when we were in Afghanistan -- the peace deals that the Taliban make are always a prelude for them to take over more territory.
And, so, if you go back to 2005, they had a peace deal in South Waziristan, and then in North Waziristan in 2006, and then in Swat just now, and now they're in Buner.
So, you know, every time they do a deal with the -- with the government, unfortunately, it's a prelude for them to grab ever more chunks of territory.
COOPER: Meanwhile, the U.S. is giving them billions of dollars to combat these militants. What are the options that -- that the government now has? I mean, do they keep making peace deals? Or do they actually try to confront them militarily, which they have done in the past and lost a lot of Pakistani troops doing?
BERGEN: Well, that's the problem. They have -- they have tried the hammer approach, and that's been a military defeat for the Pakistani often. And they have tried appeasement, and you get the Taliban arriving 60 miles from Islamabad.
So, the Pakistani establishment, the politicians, the military, have basically -- they don't know what to do. And the problem for the United States is, if the Pakistani government and the Pakistani military doesn't really have a strategy, how can we have an effective strategy to deal with al Qaeda and the Taliban on their -- on Pakistani territory?
The answer is, we can't. And this is a huge conundrum going forward for Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, the special represent, Ambassador Holbrooke, General Petraeus, and others who have to deal with this problem every day.
COOPER: Well, I mean, can you game it out? What are -- what are the issues? I mean, what are the options? And Clinton basically says that -- that the government in Pakistan -- and I quote -- is basically abdicating to the Taliban and to the extremists. What can they do? I mean, how do you see this playing out?
BERGEN: Well, playing out, you know, the -- a lot of Pakistani politicians are -- are thinking day to day. They're not about the real long-term future of their country. The problem really is a lack of -- of good leadership. Pakistan has not had particularly effective leadership. Unfortunately, Benazir Bhutto, the assassinated politician, might have been the person, who was very popular, had the right ideas, might have been the person to pull Pakistan out of this problem.
But I think a bigger problem going forward, Anderson, is that the Pakistani economy is in -- is dematerializing. Half the population lives on $2 a day. You have got these enormous economic pressures, which help the Taliban, who can appeal to landless peasants and the like.
And you have got a lot of guys who are unemployed. And the Taliban provides salaries often. So, I -- I think this is going to get worse, unfortunately, before it gets better.
COOPER: It sounds like it.
Peter Bergen, appreciate it. Thanks, Peter.
Coming up: Text us your questions about the controversy still raging over the Miss USA kerfuffle. Did exercising free speech cost Miss California the crown? Is there more to it? Send your text questions to 94553. Keep in mind your message must start with the letters A.C., then a space, then your name and question. Roland Martin is going to be here, and also Michelangelo Signorile.
Also ahead, a big break in the polo horse mystery in Florida -- new clues as to what may have killed the animals in Florida. But was it an accident?
And the teenage father of Sarah Palin's grandson speaks out -- Levi Johnston, in his own words, why he and Bristol Palin split up, and does he plan to take legal action to try to see his son more?
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: So, we thought the best way to set up this next story is with a question. Quick. No Googling allowed. Who was crowned Miss USA on Sunday? If you're drawing a blank, you're probably not alone. That's because the runner-up, Miss California -- that's her there -- stole the show when asked a question about same-sex marriage. She says her answer cost her the crown.
Three days later, people are still talking about it.
Tom Foreman has the kerfuffle.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... California, Carrie Prejean.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the culture wars, it is becoming the shot heard round the world. During the Miss USA contest, a bastion of Americana, gay rights activist and pageant judge Perez Hilton asked about legalizing gay marriage.
PEREZ HILTON, CELEBRITY BLOGGER: Vermont recently became the fourth state to legalize same-sex marriage.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HILTON: Do you think every state should follow suit? Why or why not?
FOREMAN: And Miss California, Carrie Prejean, answered.
CARRIE PREJEAN, MISS CALIFORNIA: Well, I think it's great that Americans are able to choose one or the other.
We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage. And you know what? In my country and in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman, no offense to anybody out there. But that's how I was raised and that's how I think that it should be, between a man and a woman. Thank you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A downpour of gay people threatening the way we live.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: Every since, same-sex marriage advocates, already using satires like this one on YouTube to mock homophobia, have added Prejean to the mix, with endless Internet postings about her stance, on TV, harangues at the hapless first runner-up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "CHELSEA LATELY")
CHELSEA HANDLER, HOST, "CHELSEA LATELY": Why do we even ask these girls questions?
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: And Hilton, a celebrity blogger, is showing up everywhere, sometimes hitting easy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
HILTON: She gave an honest answer. And that upset a lot of people. I applaud her for speaking the truth, but Miss USA is not her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: And sometimes hitting hard. HILTON: She lost not because she doesn't believe in gay marriage. Miss California lost because she's a dumb (EXPLETIVE DELETED) OK? She gave an awful, awful answer, which alienated so many people.
FOREMAN: Prejean says she believes the answer cost her the crown.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The new Miss USA 2009 is North Carolina.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
FOREMAN: But she's not backing down a bit.
On "The Today Show":
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE TODAY SHOW")
PREJEAN: The way that I answered it, you know, might have been offensive to people, and I said, and no offense to anybody. I did not want to offend anybody.
But I think, with that question specifically, it's not about being politically correct. For me, it was being biblically correct.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: And fans, like an Alabama legislator who has introduced a resolution praising Prejean, and this viewer, who sent us a CNN I- Report, are standing by her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATY BROWN, I-REPORTER: And, Miss California, you are a role model. You are the definition of standing up for your own beliefs and your opinions. And I thank you for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: Who knew the all-American beauty pageant could get so ugly?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm so angry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: So does this really come down to an issue of free speech? Roland Martin blogged about this today on our Web site in support of Miss California's honesty. We want to hear your thoughts, too. Send us a text message with your question to 94553. Keep in mind the message must start with the letters "AC," then a space, your name, and question. If you don't put "AC" first with a space, we are not going to get your text.
Roland Martin joins me now, along with Sirius XM host Michelangelo Signorile.
Roland, why did you write this blog? What are you in support of?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, because folks are saying, well, she shouldn't have said this, she should have given a different answer, she should have played it safe.
My deal is, look, when you ask -- if you ask a question, give the answer. And I'm sick and tired of whether its politicians or whether it's anybody else, where we dance around these issues and give these nice, safe answers as opposed to exactly how he really feels.
Now, there are consequences when it comes to that. When you write a column, people are going to say, "Why did you say it?" You've got a radio show? "Why'd you say it?" But you say it, you put yourself out there and you deal with the consequences. I'm tired of the dancing.
COOPER: Michelangelo, do you think she's being punished because of her beliefs?
MICHELANGELO SIGNORILE, SIRIUS XM HOST: No, I don't believe it was about the answer that she gave in terms of what she actually -- what she believed about marriage. I think it was because she was inarticulate, she was clumsy. She talked about how we have a choice in this country. We don't. California took away the choice.
So she was wrong, and then she was also this opposite marriage. What did that mean? I think she was inarticulate.
COOPER: Roland, she said we live in a land where you with choose same-sex marriage, which is -- actually, it's not true. Do you buy that, that her answer was technically wrong and therefore, that's the problem?
MARTIN: Again, for me, I don't even waste my time on, well, she got second place and she would have won if she answered right. None of us know that. We don't know how the judges were actually...
COOPER: She certainly believes it.
MARTIN: Right. She believes that. But really how this thing has really just generated so much attention is really because of the answer, her stance, and that is she believes that marriage is between a man and a woman. That's the real issue, not that she was the runner-up.
COOPER: Do you think most people are criticizing her. You say they're hypocrites? Why?
MARTIN: I think they're hypocrites because it's interesting. People are saying, "How dare she sit here and say that? She -- she would have been Miss USA representing America."
Well, guess what? The president of the United States has the exact same position that she does. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Vice President Joe Biden. I sat through all those debates and watched those Democratic candidates. All of them say I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. But people are saying, "Oh, she's wrong," but they say, "Hey, we love Obama."
SIGNORILE: Let me say the world is changing dramatically. Just in the past few months, we have the governor of New York, an African- American leader. We have the NAACP president, Julian Bond. We have the governor of Massachusetts. We have Reverend Al Sharpton all saying that marriage is a civil rights issue for gays and lesbians.
And we've had enormous change. Iowa, Vermont, so it's changing. I think the president is going to change. And he's not standing in the way of marriage. And Hillary Clinton has already shifted a lot, too. The terrain is shifting. This is a civil rights issue.
MARTIN: But the CNN poll shows that 65 percent of Americans still say they're against same-sex marriage.
COOPER: But...
MARTIN: It's shifting, but the numbers are still there.
SIGNORILE: In 1967, 70 percent of Americans were opposed to interracial marriage, but the world changed. People stood up and led the way. And I think you would have been proud in '67 if the judges at the Miss America pageant or Miss USA pageant voted down a contestant because they didn't believe in interracial marriage. They did the right thing.
MARTIN: My issues not even with the contestant. That's not my point. My point is she said, "This is my position on it." And my deal is you should be able to say where you stand on it.
COOPER: We've got a question from a viewer, a text question. This is from Lilibelle (ph) from Washington. She asked, "Do you think it was fair to ask the same-sex marriage question to even begin with?"
SIGNORILE: Well, the pageant wanted them to ask questions about social issues, about public affairs issues, about what's happening in the country.
COOPER: She said she had rehearsed an answer for that. I mean, she had expected it.
SIGNORILE: Right. She picked Perez Hilton, an openly gay man who was a judge.
MARTIN: Well, she picked that out of a jar. So it's not like, "I'm going to choose him." She pulled his name out.
COOPER: Do you think it was a valid question? MARTIN: Was it a valid question? Yes, but frankly for the Miss -- Miss USA or Miss California, I don't think America was sitting at home saying, "I really want to know what the beauty pageant person thinks about various social issues." I don't think they're actually doing that. I don't look to leadership on public policy issues from a beauty pageant contestant.
COOPER: Michael, you have a radio show on Sirius. People are still talking about this.
SIGNORILE: People are still talking about it, because it was a flash point. I think also because they see that there's this, now, once again sort of a whipping up on the conservative right to use her and try to claim she was a victim.
She is probably going to have all kinds of offers for jobs. Does anybody know, as you said, the name of the actual winner of the pageant?
COOPER: No.
SIGNORILE: She's doing fine.
MARTIN: Both sides are whipping this whole thing up. They're both using it to their advantage.
COOPER: We'll leave it there. Roland Martin, Michelangelo Signorile, good to have you on. Thank you very much.
Roland's posted at AC360.com. It's called "Miss California, thanks for being honest." That's the title.
So you can also join the live chat happening now. Let us know what you think. A lot of people weighing in right now in the live chat. And check out Erica Hill's live Web cast during our breaks over the next half hour.
Up next, the shocking new allegations against Melissa Huckaby. Not only is she charged with the murder of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu. Police say she could be connected to an arson case and the brief disappearance of another little girl. Tonight, you'll hear from Melissa Huckaby, just before she was arrested.
Plus Levi Johnston, his mom and sister in their own words on how their lives have changed since Sarah Palin said yes to John McCain and Bristol Palin got pregnant.
And Internet sensation Susan Boyle, praised for her voice and recognized for her lass-next-door style has a new look. We'll show it to you. The question is, is she making a big mistake? We'll let you decide for yourself.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: We're learning more tonight about the alleged killer of an 8-year-old girl. Sandra Cantu was last seen, of course, on this surveillance tape on March 27. There she is, happily skipping across the street in Tracy, California. Ten days later her body was found in a suitcase.
A few days after that, 28-year-old Sunday schoolteacher was arrested. First, the allegations shocked those who knew Melissa Huckaby, but now new revelations are coming to light about the alleged killer's past. Dan Simon has tonight's "Crime & Punishment" report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What you're about to hear, could it be the voice of a child killer, the woman charged with killing 8-year-old Sandra Cantu?
MELISSA HUCKABY, MURDER SUSPECT: Sandra was my daughter's best friend.
SIMON: Shortly before her arrest, Melissa Huckaby spoke by phone to a reporter from KPIX-TV in San Francisco. He asked about certain details of the case, including whether the suitcase that contained Sandra's body had belonged to Huckaby. Huckaby sounds like an intelligent woman, cool but under enormous pressure.
HUCKABY: The police have not disclosed any information as to whether or not it is my suitcase. I know they are in the process of getting pictures of suitcases. So that I can let them know whether or not this specific suitcase is mine.
SIMON: But later in court, her inner turmoil spilled out into the open, and details continued to emerge about the 28-year-old's past, which includes a heated divorce and a conviction for petty theft.
And there's more. Police in Southern California confirmed to CNN that Huckaby was questioned but never arrested in an arson case from July of 2007. Huckaby rented a room at this house, which caught fire twice that month.
And there's more. Police in southern California confirmed to CNN that Huckaby was questioned but never arrested in an arson case from July of 2007. Huckaby rented a room at this house, which caught fire twice that month.
But nothing in her known past would explain what might have caused Huckaby to kill. A famed forensic pathologist, Dr. Cyril Wecht, who is not connected to this case, offers this theory.
DR. CYRIL WECHT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: I think that something ensued, possibly a sexual advance, which was spurned. Maybe a threat was made by the little girl: "I'm going to tell my mommy," or whatever, and that precipitated a rage.
SIMON: Just three months ago, police in Tracy investigated whether Huckaby may have abducted another little girl. The 7-year-old lived in the same mobile home park where Sandra and Huckaby lived and disappeared for four hours. A few hours after the girl was returned, her family discovered she was under the influence of a drug, later determined to be muscle relaxers. But police say they could not prove that Huckaby had given the drug, and no arrest was made.
(on camera) As for Sandra Cantu's murder, police have not given a motive but say Huckaby acted alone. On Friday, she's back in court and expected to enter a plea.
Dan Simon, CNN, Tracy, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: So disturbing.
Still ahead, White House working overtime to shape how you see the Obamas. But is that possible with such an intense interest in the first family and cameras everywhere? We'll take a look at that, but first Erica Hill joins us with a "360 News & Business Bulletin" -- Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, a death and many questions tonight, Forty-one-year-old David Kellermann, the acting chief financial officer at Freddie Mac, found dead early this morning at his home, an apparent hanging. No foul play is suspected. A Freddie Mac spokeswoman has denied any connection between Kellermann's death and several investigations into Freddie Mac's financial problems.
Tonight, mystery still surrounding the sudden death of 21 horses before a polo match in Florida on Sunday. Veterinarians have not found an official cause of death. One polo team member, however, said a tainted vitamin supplement may be to blame.
The morning-after pill will soon be available without a prescription to women 17 and older. In March a federal court ordered the age limit lowered from 18. Today the Food and Drug Administration announced it will not appeal that ruling.
And a 360 follow tonight, after unproven accusations that the father of a 9-year-old "Slumdog Millionaire" actor, Rubina Ali, tried to sell her, a trust fund today set up with financial backing from the filmmakers for Rubina and the other children who starred in the hit movie.
And Barack Obama touring the wind turbine tower manufacturing plant in Iowa today. And yes, it is Earth Day. The president predicted natural resources like wind power could generate 20 percent of the U.S.'s electricity by the year 2030, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. More about the plan this weekend. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Lisa Ling and I take you to the front lines of the ultimate battles over natural resources. It's an encore presentation of "Planet in Peril: Battle Lines." That's this Saturday and Sunday night at 11 p.m. Eastern.
Up next, the teen father of Sarah Palin's grandson, Levi Johnston, in his own words. Will he sue to see more of his own son? Hear what he told Larry King tonight.
And the secrets to a long life. We've been looking at it all week. Tonight the food that could make all the difference.
And some new details on the man accused of being the Craigslist killer. Reports he kept some of his victims' underwear. That's not all. Police say he wasn't alone the night he was arrested. The latest developments when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, the family feud between the Palins and the Johnstons out on TV tonight. It all started at the Republican convention last August. It thrust the Palins in the spotlight.
Sarah was -- Governor Sarah Palin was anointed the vice- presidential candidate on a ticket with John McCain, and Sarah Palin's daughter became the issue. Bristol, engaged, pregnant. The baby, son Tripp, born in December. After that, the couple broke up. No more wedding. Instead, a family fight broke out.
Now the Palins are calling Levi Johnston potentially a deadbeat dad. Levi is firing back, saying they refuse to let him see his child. Tonight he was on "Larry King Live." Here he is in his own words.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING: When it began to be sexual and romantic, did the Palins -- that's a key question, I guess everybody is asking -- did the governor know?
LEVI JOHNSTON, FATHER OF TRIPP: I'm not sure. That's a question I can't really answer.
KING: What do you think?
JOHNSTON: She says she doesn't know, but I don't know. I think she would probably know, you know.
KING: What about her husband? Do you think he knew?
JOHNSTON: I would think so.
KING: Was -- did sex occur in their house?
JOHNSTON: You know, Larry, I'm a gentleman, you know, and I don't -- I don't kiss and tell. So...
KING: How did you tell Sarah?
JOHNSTON: We went over there and had one of Bristol's friends and we all sat down on the couch and ended up telling her that way.
KING: What did she say? JOHNSTON: She was shocked. I mean, she probably didn't know really what to say. I mean, no mother wants to hear that her daughter is pregnant at the age of 18 years old.
KING: Were you present at Tripp's birth?
JOHNSTON: Yes, I was there.
KING: Did you cut the cord?
JOHNSTON: No, I couldn't do that.
KING: What was it like?
JOHNSTON: It was -- it was cool. I mean, I never thought I would be there, you know. I wasn't expecting to have a kid this early, but I thought I would always be, you know, grossed out, but it was exciting.
KING: About that modeling and acting, and money-making, any truth?
JOHNSTON: You know, Larry, there's been a lot of -- a lot of people coming and calling, and a lot of offers out there for me to do a lot of things. And you know, nothing is set in stone. I haven't signed or done anything. And I haven't made a dime off of anything I've done yet. So for them to say I'm out for fame and fortune, you know, that's ridiculous.
KING: Supposing someone came to you with an offer to, let's say model?
JOHNSTON: Then my guy, tank Jones, they can talk to him about it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: There he is, Levi Johnston in his own words.
Coming up -- did you watch that one, Erica? We had the whole newsroom stopping and kind of watching.
HILLS: I saw a little bit of it, but I was kind of running around doing other stuff. It's been a busy day.
COOPER: You were actually working.
HILL: But I was doing some work. But, you know, that's actually work, when we watch those things at work, because we need to know what happens.
COOPER: That's the excuse, yes, you want to use? Sure.
HILL: It's true.
COOPER: No, it is true. HILL: It's true.
COOPER: No, but it's true. It is true. We have people logging it. We're watching it. Figure out what to put on.
HILL: Who do you think picks the bites to put together for Levi Johnston in his own words?
COOPER: Exactly. It doesn't happen magically.
HILL: Not Levi, no.
COOPER: That's right.
All right. Coming up right now, our "Beat 360" winners, our daily challenge to viewers. This is also work, really. A chance to show up our staffers by coming up with a caption better than one that we can come up with for a picture that we put on the blog.
Here's the picture: President Barack Obama showing off his muddy shoes while planting a tree in Washington.
Staff winner tonight, David Mattingly. His caption: "Earth Day ceremonies are cut short when environmentalists notice President Obama's new whale skin loafers."
(SOUND EFFECT: GROANS)
COOPER: No, he wasn't wearing whale skin loafers.
HILL: I don't know if it's David Mattingly's first one, but I haven't seen his name up there in a while.
COOPER: Congratulations.
HILL: Good one, David Mattingly.
COOPER: Our viewer winner is Jenny Seavers. Her caption: "Ah, man, looks like I stepped in another one of W's messes."
(SOUND EFFECT: "Oooh!")
COOPER: Jenny, congratulations. A "Beat 360" T-shirt is on the way.
HILL: There were a lot of dog poo jokes along that line...
COOPER: A lot of dog jokes. Yes.
HILL: ... in the responses. Yes.
COOPER: Join the live chat happening now at AC360.com. A lot of people talking about all the stories tonight.
And of course, Erica Hill's live Web casts during our breaks. Coming up next, secrets to a longer life may actually start in your kitchen. We're looking at this all week long. We've got the ingredients and recipes you need to live a longer and healthier life.
And Susan Boyle, she's become famous for her voice. Now she's giving up her down-home duds for some Hollywood style. We'll show you her new look and let you decide, is she making a mistake by trying to get fancy? Our "Shot of the Day" is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: All this week we're taking a closer look at how to live a longer and healthier life. And we're taking you to a Greek island called Ikaria. It's a bit off the beaten track, at the southern tip of the Aegean Islands. People who live there live much longer than the average American. They're also much healthier.
Explorer and writer Dan Buettner spent a lot of time investigating why that is. His team of researchers is supported by the AARP and the National Geographic Society. And tonight we continue our series, "Secrets to a Long Life." We've already looked at how sex and naps may factor in. Tonight we focus on food.
Erica Hill talks to Dan Buettner about that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: Dan, since most of us can't move to Ikaria, the good news is you're going to show us today how to bring some of this bounty that they eat every day into our own kitchens so we can live a little longer.
DAN BUETTNER, AUTHOR/RESEARCHER: Right, Erica. We all know the Mediterranean diet is good for us, but recent research shows that by adhering to the Mediterranean diet, it can actually give you about six extra years. Also, it can save tens of thousands of dollars off of health-care costs over the course of a lifetime.
And today to show you how it's done here on Ikaria, I have a real treat for you. Come on inside. I'd like to introduce you to Diane Kochilas, who runs a cooking school right here. She has 17 cookbooks, and she's supremely qualified to take the Ikarian ingredients and make them taste good.
What do you have here?
DIANE KOCHILAS, IKARIAN CHEF: Welcome, Dan. I have black-eyed pea stew with wild Ikarian fennel, and I'm going to pour some extra- virgin olive oil right over that.
BUETTNER: See, it's not only the ingredients of the Mediterranean diet. It's what Diane does with them. This little Ikarian trick of actually pouring oil on the food instead of frying the food with it actually helps make that olive oil healthier. It actually keeps the fats unsaturated, instead of saturating them by getting them too hot. HILL: Wow, and you've also incorporated that wild fennel that we saw yesterday. The fact that Diane is making black-eyed peas. There are a lot of beans in this diet, which surprised me, because I would have imagined a lot of fish in a Mediterranean diet.
BUETTNER: Ikaria, most of the villages were largely isolated. It's a long way from the seas, so beans like we see in blue zones all over the world, are a cornerstone of the diet. It can be chick peas, lentils.
In fact research shows that people who eat beans, for every extra ounce it drops your mortality by about 8 percent. So an easy way to make your meal longevity friendly, put some beans in it.
HILL: And then drizzle olive oil on top.
Also, wine is very important to the Ikarian diet, which sounds like a good idea to me.
HILL: You know, Homer drank Promian wine, and this is Promian wine. It's no sulfites, no nitrates. And the secret, though, of consuming, we know that people who drink a little bit of wine every day outlive people who don't, but the secret here is to drink your wine with the meal. That actually unleashes polyphenols, makes more antioxidants available, to scrub the inside of your arteries.
Diane was telling me that they never drink without eating a meal, too.
KOCHILAS: That's true.
HILL: Good to know that. But we don't have to drink that specific type of wine. You can drink a wine that you find here in the U.S.
KOCHILAS: No, in fact the research is done on any kind of alcohol. There's just an extra antioxidant bump when you drink wine as opposed to beer or spirits.
HILL: Well, if we have to, Dan, I suppose we must, to live longer.
Dan, thanks. We'll see you tomorrow.
BUETTNER: Here's to you guys.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: It's rough when you have to do things like that to stay healthy, Anderson. The recipe, actually, is on the Web site...
COOPER: I'm starving now.
HILL: You know what's one of the best parts of this recipe is that, if you read the blog from Diane Kochilas, she wrote a blog to go along with the recipe. The way she describes life on Ikaria and what her summers were like.
COOPER: Why aren't we all living there?
HILL: I have no idea, but if you could pull some strings to make that happen, it would be great.
So that's all at AC360.com. It's really fascinating, and it makes you really jealous and hungry.
And the other thing that's there, you can keep voting on where you would like Dan to investigate next on Ikaria.
COOPER: All right. Well, the food looked good. I'll look it up. Thanks, Erica.
Up next, Susan Boyle, the Internet singing sensation, vowed she wouldn't change her looks, but some say she looks a lot different now. We'll let you decide whether or not it's a good idea. Tonight's "Shot."
And the Taliban's bold new move to impose Islamic law, militants advancing just 60 miles from the capital of Pakistan. Incredible stuff. Hillary Clinton calls it a mortal threat. The latest when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: All right. Here's tonight's "Shot." Here she is, Susan Boyle, of YouTube fame, known all over the world for her straight- forward look and smashing appearance on the talent show, "Britain's Got Talent." The clips of this performance downloaded over 100 million times at least. Now -- I know.
All that fame, Susan Boyle promised, wouldn't change her. Well, here's Susan Boyle. Gone is the matronly look, out the window, replaced by patterned dresses, a leather jacket. Check out the -- she's apparently wearing high heels there.
HILL: Sassy Susan.
COOPER: Really? Here's more of the new do, the new outfits, and her fabulous singing. If all goes well, she'll be performing for the queen. Susan Boyle says that is her ambition.
But you know, some people are saying it's not a good idea for her to change her look, because that's part of her appeal.
HILL: Well, didn't shy say to Larry King. I think she said to Larry King, "No, no, I don't care about a makeover," but, you know, sometimes these things happen.
COOPER: Some new duds, nothing wrong with that.
HILL: She looks lovely.
COOPER: Lovely. HILL: Look at that. Do you think she's going to be riding a Harley next or what?
COOPER: She's going to be competing, so we'll see if she stays in the race.
HILL: She needs to beat the 12-year-old.
COOPER: I know.
HILL: Or whoever comes up this Saturday.
COOPER: I don't believe he's 12.
HILL: What is he, like...
COOPER: .. audience. I don't know. I think -- I don't know. I don't buy this whole show.
You can see all the most recent "Shots"...
HILL: It's all a sham.
COOPER: ... on AC360.com.
Coming up at the top of the hour, reports of chilling new evidence in the Craigslist murderer. This stuff is unbelievable. Reports the alleged killer kept souvenirs from the victims.
We'll be right back.
