Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Pentagon Shooting; How Safe is Your Food; Leaked RNC Document; Anthrax Suspect's Secrets; Killer Waves; Congressman and His Cot
Aired March 04, 2010 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. Tonight, breaking news: the shooting outside the Pentagon; we'll take you there live in a moment.
Also ahead in this hour, a horrifying picture; what goes into the food we all eat. And new allegations of the people who are supposed to be monitoring that food simply can't be bothered. We're "Keeping them Honest". And if you'd had a hamburger in the last couple of days you need to hear this story.
We're also joined by the director of "Food Inc.", the movie and "Top Chef's" Tom Colicchio.
Plus tonight, a fund-raising document the Republican Party doesn't want you to see. It calls top donors ego-driven and -- as you see there -- paints President Obama as the Joker and Nancy Pelosi as Cruella De Vil. So who used this document -- the guy who heads fund- raising for the entire Republican Party. The question is why?
Democratic Strategist James Carville seems almost gleeful about it. Republican Ed Rollins not so much. Both men square off tonight.
And how it looked and sounded as 26-foot waves crashed into a cruise ship. Lives were lost and cameras were recording. We'll show you the new video and talk with "Perfect Storm" author Sebastian Junger about rogue waves.
First up tonight, the breaking news. Let's get started gunshots outside the Pentagon. Right at the main entrance, two Pentagon officers hit. Chris Lawrence is there right now.
Chris, what have we learned?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, the most important thing is that these officers were grazed by that shooter's bullets. It looks like their injuries are non-life threatening. They're at the hospital. It looks like they're going to be ok. That's the good news.
The bad news is they were shot on duty right here just outside the Pentagon about 6:30 tonight. The entire building was locked down for about an hour. No one could get in. We couldn't go out. That cleared up. They secured the scene. And the shooter, the man who shot at these two officers is now in custody. His wounds are said to be critical, very serious wounds.
Here is what happened. When you come up out of the Metro, which is the subway entrance --
COOPER: Pictures of the alleged suspect right now, I'm told.
LAWRENCE: Yes, yes, exactly. And that --the thing is, Anderson, you know, a lot of people say, how could you get a gun right here to the Pentagon? The thing is, when you come up out of the Metro station which is a transportation area used by thousands of people every day, coming in on buses, on the D.C. underground train system, you come up and instead of being able to go right to the door of the Pentagon following 9/11, now there's this checkpoint where these Pentagon police officers sit and every day I can tell you I walk up there and I pull out my Pentagon pass. I walk right up to them. I show them the pass. And then I walk about ten yards to the building.
Apparently that's exactly what this man did. He walked right up to them. The officers say he was calm. He didn't say anything. He didn't seem distressed at all. He was wearing a coat. He reached into his pocket like thousands of people do every single day here at the Pentagon.
Instead of pulling out this pass he pulled out a handgun. He started shooting at the officers, again, grazing both of them --
COOPER: And any indication about a motive at this point?
LAWRENCE: No. Not yet.
COOPER: Ok.
LAWRENCE: Again, he is -- he's at the hospital in what we're told is critical condition.
COOPER: All right --
LAWRENCE: But again, that's the big question now.
COOPER: Yes, we're going to continue gathering information over this hour. If anything new developments we'll tell you about it. Chris Lawrence, I appreciate it.
We want to turn now our attention and yours, to the food that all of us eat. And what we don't know about the dangers can kill us. Why you don't know, according to whistleblower you are about to meet, is simple. He says the government inspectors who should be looking out for you instead find it easier to suck up to the big money slaughter houses, chicken plants and food processors that they're supposed to be regulating.
The end result is that diseased animals get into the food supply. People get sick and people die. In a moment, we're going to talk to Robert Kenner, who directed a remarkable documentary called "Food Inc." Also, we're going to talk to superstar chef Tom Colicchio on how to eat well and stay safe.
But first Gary Tuchman investigates and we want to warn you. Some of what we found is tough to watch but it's important to know and important to "Keep them Honest".
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You may not want to be eating while you're watching this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I'll shoot you.
TUCHMAN: And you're not even seeing the most gruesome of this undercover video shot by the Humane Society of the U.S. in a slaughterhouse in Vermont. A facility a U.S. Department of Agriculture inspector says he tried to close three times but ended up getting rebuffed by his bosses.
Dr. Dean Wyatt was the man rebuffed.
DR. DEAN WYATT, FOOD SAFETY AND INSPECTORS SERVICE: I saw a truck driver swear at one of these downed cows. Pick him up off the second tier and just throw him like a football. I saw him grab him by the hind legs, drag him down on loading ramps.
TUCHMAN: Dr. Wyatt, a veterinarian by trade, testified before Congress today. He says even if district supervisors with the USDA's Food Safety Inspection Service saw clear violations of regulations they would get intimidated by the owners of the slaughterhouses and didn't want to deal with the trouble.
WYATT: They said there was no way I could have seen what I actually did see. In the end they told me either had to transfer or I'd be terminated. I was told to immediately leave the plant, to never come back.
TUCHMAN: David Kirby is the author of the bestselling book "Animal Factory" that looks at how the mishandling and processing of animals can lead to serious problems with your food.
DAVID KIRBY, AUTHOR, "ANIMAL FACTORY": You should never, ever, ever slaughter a downed cow or a downer cow. That cow's meat should never go into the food system. The main concern, of course, is BSE, bovine spongiform encephalopathy (ph) which we know better as mad cow disease.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two workers are holding her from behind, twisting her tail. And they continue to shock her as they lead her to the kill box.
TUCHMAN: Dr. Wyatt's testimony brings back unpleasant memories of the 2008 recall of more than 140 million pounds of beef from this plant in Chino, California, where workers were once again caught slaughtering so-called downed cows. The owner of that plant was called to testify before Congress back then.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were illegally slaughtered underneath the rules and regulations of the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN: The man who was in charge of slaughterhouse inspectors in his job since July also testified today.
JEROLD MANDE, FOOD SAFETY AND INSPECTORS SERVICE: We take these charges very seriously even if the actions occurred under a previous administration.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D) OHIO: Now, I understand that you didn't oversee the agency when this abuse of power took place. But you do now.
TUCHMAN (on camera): The Vermont slaughterhouse was ultimately closed after the video was released. A lawyer for the company says big changes are being made, though, and the hope is to re-open in the near future.
(voice-over): If and when it does it will be one of many hundreds of slaughterhouses in the U.S.; a lot of steak and a lot at stake for the American consumer.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Sickening. Literally sickening what some meat packers do. And according to Gary's reporting what government watchdogs let them get away with.
Joining us now, is documentary filmmaker, Robert Kenner. He's the writer and director of an incredibly thought-provoking film called "Food Inc." Are you surprised at all by Dean Wyatt's claims that he was silenced after trying to call attention to unsanitary conditions at slaughterhouses?
ROBERT KENNER, DIRECTOR, "FOOD INC.": I'm not at all surprised. Basically we saw numerous cases of animals being mistreated. And today we have fewer and fewer inspectors that are testing the meat out there and so this is not at all surprising to me.
COOPER: Some of the things you discovered are really shocking and I think going to surprise people about what is in the food that we're all eating. What is in a hamburger that -- that you may be eating tonight.
Robert, stay there. We're going to talk more about that right after the break.
KENNER: Yes. COOPER: Let us know what you think. You can join the live chat right now at AC360.com. We'll talk to Robert. We'll also talk to "Top Chef's" Tom Colicchio, on eating meat safely and the alternatives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: All right, there are there alternatives to eating meats like these that you can still get a lot -- a lot of protein from?
TOM COLICCHIO, "TOP CHEF": Sure, there are legumes like lentils, there's vegetables. You know I think, right now I'm trying to at least have one meal where I'm not eating protein, I'm focusing more on vegetables or legumes to get that protein.
COOPER: You do that one meal a week?
COLICCHIO: I'm trying to, yes, yes.
COOPER: How's that working?
COLLICHIO: It's not always working. But at least I'm trying.
COOPER: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Later tonight, you've seen the poster of President Obama as a Joker. But did you know that painting the President of the United States as a cartoon villain was actually part of the Republican Party fund-raising strategy? Both party's fund-raisers have probably done stuff like this in the past. But rarely do we ever get to see it.
Tonight the leaked PowerPoint presentation that some wealthy Republican donors are probably not going to be happy with what they get called, either.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: We're back with Robert Kenner, director of "Food Inc." A really a remarkable film, it's an expose of where our food comes from and what happens to it on the way to the table.
It isn't pretty. And as you've seen, it's literally making people sick to the tune of about $152 billion a year. Here's a short clip from the film.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The animals stand ankle deep in their manure all day long, so that if one cow has it the other cows will get it. When they get to the slaughterhouse their hides are caked with manure. And if the slaughterhouse is slaughtering 400 animals an hour, how do you keep that manure from getting on to those carcasses? And that's how the manure gets underneath. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Robert Kenner from "Food Inc." joins us now. What are some of the examples of dangerous things going on in food production that -- that a lot of folks aren't aware of?
KENNER: Well, when I was a kid, when we had a hamburger it was made from one cow. Today there might be 5,000, 10,000 cows in one single hamburger. So ultimately if you have --
COOPER: So the meat comes from all different places?
KENNER: All places. And it could be from animals from all over the world that go into one hamburger and it could be 100,000 hamburgers could contain that one bad cow. So ultimately I think there's always been bad food, but with all the science we have, we're no less vulnerable today and perhaps, we're more vulnerable today than we've ever been.
COOPER: I want to play another clip from your film. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Birds are now raised and slaughtered in half the time they were 50 years ago, but now they're twice as big. People like to eat white meat, so they redesigned the chicken to have large breasts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It's -- it's incredible that -- that now, I mean, that we -- that we basically engineered food like this. It's certainly strange. It's disturbing. But I mean, is it really unhealthy?
KENNER: Well, on one level we're paying less for food than at any time in history, which is a great thing. The problem is there are high unseen costs to this low-cost food. And we're just beginning to understand them. As the report today, $150 billion a year are going towards food-borne illness.
COOPER: You look at the unsanitary conditions which sometimes these animals are kept in. And in clips from your film, I mean, there are cows up to their knees in feces; there's chickens that, you know, are raised really with literally no room to move at all. If 76 million people a year are getting sick from food-borne illnesses, who is protecting consumers?
KENNER: Well, the problem is that we have industry that says they think they can do it better than government. In our film we have a story of a boy that ate a hamburger and died from e Coli. And that the meat that had the e-Coli sat on the shelves for 16 days after he died because the government did not have the right to recall that.
So unfortunately we need stronger and tougher regulations. COOPER: And the idea that there are all these farmers out there. And you go to the supermarket and you see silos and you see fields of green and stuff in ads, the truth is these -- these are huge industrial corporations and a few -- a few number -- and just a few of them control, like, 80 percent or a huge amount of the food, right?
KENNER: Yes there's -- I think there are four meat companies that control 80 percent of all the beef in this country, which is a -- you know, it used to be they controlled a fraction of that and we have fewer and fewer companies that are now controlling our food.
And, unfortunately, they have a lot -- too much power. I think at this point we have food products have gained more control than we as consumers have and the balance is off.
COOPER: What can consumers do, though? Because I mean, a lot of people say, well, you know, eat organic or go buy a local food. But all that stuff costs a lot more. What are people who are concerned about the food they're eating, but can't afford, you know, free-range organic products?
KENNER: As we become more conscious, hopefully we'll make better decisions and buy less processed food, buy more local food. Buy, you know, eat less meat. Ultimately we're eating too much meat and the earth can't take it.
But I think we just have to become more conscious. But we also have to work with government because right now we're subsidizing food that's making us sick. We're subsidizing corn, we're subsidizing soybeans. And that goes into 90 percent of the items in the supermarket are made up of those two ingredients. We're paying for those with our tax dollar.
COOPER: Well, it's a fascinating documentary, "Food Inc." Robert Kenner thanks so much.
KENNER: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: And we should mention that "Food Inc." is actually up for an Oscar, this year. The essence of the movie, though, and the story are enough to kill your appetite. But the fact is that all we need to eat. And the question tonight is really, how do you eat well and how do you eat affordably and eat safely?
We went to Tom Colicchio's kitchen today to find out. He, of course, is the star of "Top Chef." He's also the creator of numerous restaurants here in New York: Craft, Craft Bar, Witch Craft and now another restaurant, Colicchio and Sons.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Were you surprised to hear about this testimony about slaughterhouses?
COLICCHIO: Not at all. No, there were some documentaries done recently showing from the inside the inner workings of slaughterhouses. So I'm not surprised at all.
And in fact, I think it's a good thing that someone is blowing the whistle because our food supply needs to stay safe. I think it's important. And I think, the USDA is part of that and they're not doing their job.
COOPER: And what are the biggest dangers for people in the kitchen? I mean it's -- what, e Coli, salmonella?
COLICCHIO: Well, e Coli is the big issue. And e Coli is a surface bacteria and so usually if it's on a steak, when you sere the steak or cook the steak you'll kill the bacteria. But the problem is when you're eating burgers and that bacteria is ground into beef and it's not cooked at a high enough temperature. The interior is not cooked at high enough temperature to kill it. And so that's the real issue.
COOPER: So what do you recommend on someone who's watching this at home, what do you recommend in terms of how they should buy their food?
COLICCHIO: Well, I would stay away from frozen beef patties.
COOPER: Why?
COLICCHIO: Well, because they usually come from bigger packers and large-scale manufacturers of food. I would go to a butcher and make sure that it's coming from a shoulder. It's coming from a single muscle. That's ground in.
Usually a shoulder has less likelihood e Coli will contaminate a shoulder versus a frozen patty packer where they're taking a whole animal and grinding the whole animal so you have belly cuts that have a less likelihood of having e Coli on it.
COOPER: So a lot of that, I mean, buying a local or buying from a butcher, I mean, all of that costs more money.
COLICCHIO: It's expensive.
COOPER: You know a lot of people just don't have that kind of money.
COLICCHIO: Without a doubt it's much more expensive. I think that people should eat higher quality foods, beef, pork, chicken and eating less of that and look towards maybe fish for protein.
COOPER: So maybe you eat meat a little bit less but eat higher quality?
COLICCHIO: Eat higher quality. Exactly, exactly. I mean, even chickens, you can buy chickens for $1 a pound or $4 a pound. There's a difference between the way the animal is being raised and processed.
COOPER: Are there alternatives to eating meats like these that you can still get a lot of protein from? COLLICCHIO: Sure there's legumes like lentils, there's vegetables. I think right now I'm trying to at least have one meal where I'm not eating protein. I'm focusing more on vegetables or legumes to get that protein.
COOPER: You do that one meal a week?
COLICCHIO: I'm trying to, yes, yes.
COOPER: Yes, how is that working?
COLICCHIO: It's not always working, but at least I'm trying.
COOPER: Yes, but it is I mean, something like this, lentils that taste really good are really affordable.
COLICCHIO: Sure, sure, they're very inexpensive except to cook a little bit. You have to learn how to cook.
COOPER: I talked to a chef once who told he thought vegetables were sexy.
COLICCHIO: They are. Vegetables, they're great.
COOPER: What's sexy about vegetables?
COLICCHIO: Well, I mean, it's -- that -- that's a little more sexy than say -- a cut of meat I guess.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Tom Colicchio and some fascinating stuff also online at AC360.com including a taco deconstructed. Every single ingredient traced back to its source. It's actually pretty interesting stuff.
Up next, a leaked memo revealing the Republicans' 2010 fund- raising strategy, it includes portraying Nancy Pelosi, well, right there, as Cruella De Vil and President Obama as the Joker, the socialist Joker nonetheless and more serious stuff that might even annoy their own big-pocketed fund-raisers.
Later, what happens when a big ship meets a very, very big wave? Take a look.
That's from the "Poseidon Adventure". A new video of a deadly moment. We'll be joined by Sebastian Junger, who wrote the book "The Perfect Storm" to talk about rogue waves.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Tonight we have a rare look inside the GOP's marketing machine. And they're not happy about it. The Republican National Committee is backing away as fast as possible from a fund-raising document.
Now to be fair, fund-raisers in both parties have probably made presentations like this in the past. But rarely do we ever actually get to see them. This one was leaked to Politico.
It's a confidential PowerPoint presentation that lays out the Republican Party's strategy for appealing to Republican donors. But the terms they use are, well, they are pretty blunt to say the least.
Here's one of the slides that they used. It's called "Motivation to Gives". And it breaks down what they think the motivation to give is for their Republican donors both large and small. So let's look at what they say for some of their small donors. This is why they think their small donors give.
They say that they give because of visceral reasons; visceral givers is what they call them. They said they're motivated by fear, by extreme negative feelings toward the existing administration and they also term them as reactionary.
All right, not very complimentary. But here's what they say about their big-money donors, people who really have deep pockets. They are described as "Calculated Givers" and they are said to be, look at this, they are said to be down here, ego driven, they respond to peer to peer pressure at the networking opportunities. They have a wall of fame. Maybe at home they want access.
Not exactly complimentary kind of terms for those big-money donors.
But caricatures are also a big part of this presentation. So take a look at this next slide that they call the "Evil Empire". It mocks the Democrats, obviously.
Take a look at -- let me see. Let me get this over here. This is a portrayal of President Obama. Obviously they portray him as the joker from "Batman" below the word "socialism". We've seen that picture a lot. But again, remember, this is a document made by the chief fundraiser for the Republican Party.
Here's the picture of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi as she actual is. Here's how they portray her at Cruella De Vil, the puppy killer from "101 Dalmatians."
And then here is Senator Harry Reid. That's his real picture. This is how Republicans portrayed him as Scooby Doo.
So now, RNC Chairman Michael Steele has called the pictures unfortunate. He also said they we're inappropriate. They clearly don't want anyone to see this document.
But let's talk "Strategy" with Democratic strategist James Carville and Republican strategist Ed Rollins.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Ed, I suppose this is the kind of thing that happens I mean, among fund raisers on both sides of the political aisle. But right now, I mean, this document that -- that the RNC put together, they actually say fear should be used as one of the ways to kind of get people to give money.
ED ROLLINS, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it's a silly document as James will attest. Fund-raisers are always the bane of those of us who do the politics. They always think they have to write a letter a certain way to get people to give.
And the reality is there are plenty of reasons for people to give today to mount opposition to the Democrats and I think this hurts us. It doesn't help us.
And I think to a certain extent it's demeaning to the donors. Donors are pretty smart people. They don't have to have silly stuff. You can sit down and say to them, here's our chances, here's our opportunities. Here's what we think Obama and the direction he's going to take the country. And that ought to be good enough to get Republicans or conservatives to give money.
COOPER: James what about this? I mean, Democrats said plenty of nasty stuff probably about President Bush and behind closed doors. I don't know if they had PowerPoint presentations like this as well. But I mean, they are making the argument that you know -- that they basically have to kind of make caricatures out of the president, out of the speaker. What do you think of this?
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, you know, honestly when I saw it, it obviously struck me as sort of almost kind of in the mainstream of what Republicans do. They have a big move afoot in the Republican National Committee to rename my party as the Democrat Socialist Party of the United States.
We got the serious thing; I think they have seven or eight Republican Congressmen who own this Birther amendment. You have some Congressman in Kentucky referring to Obama as -- I'm not to you use the word you spell but if you spell it b-o-y. You have Rush Limbaugh saying that -- that the health care is nothing but recreations (ph) to slavery.
I mean, so -- this is not -- this stuff here it seems to be kind of rough by some standards.
COOPER: So you're claiming that this is of a piece with what the Republican Party is actually saying in other quarters? Because they're distancing themselves --
CARVILLE: Right.
COOPER: -- from this.
CARVILLE: It doesn't seem to be that far out of what Republican Congressmen or Republican supporters around the country are saying.
COOPER: Ed, is that fair?
CARVILLE: It's a pretty rough language out there.
ROLLINS: Well, obviously, James, you've seen lots of rough stuff on the other side, too. The bottom line, it's not necessary. Michael Steele should be responsible for everything that happens under the RNC label. And --
COOPER: Do you think he knew about -- I mean, he's distanced himself from it.
ROLLINS: Well, if he didn't know about it, he needs to know about it.
COOPER: Yes.
ROLLINS: You can't run a fund-raising operation which is what the National committees really are fund-raising apparatus. They're not political apparatus. They basically raise money and should watch that on the daily basis. And you can't let these people -- when I was in the White House I read every letter that had Ronald Reagan's name on it and there were many letters that people would write that were derogatory that I had to kill and go fight with Senator Packwood, who is Chairman of the Senate Committee, because it was very derogatory.
COOPER: Right.
ROLLINS: It hurts your candidate and it hurts in this particular case it hurts our party.
CARVILLE: Yes and the guy who -- but he was the gentleman who put the presentation together was the fund-raising director for the Republican National Committee. I mean it wasn't just some kind of wild-eyed consultant; a pretty senior guy in the whole operation.
ROLLINS: Well and then, obviously it's a mistake. We're paying a price for having a discussion for it as opposed to discussing the merits of health care or not merits. We're sitting here talking about tactics that aren't good tactics.
COOPER: It's interesting, that James, though, when you look at some of the details on this and this is from page 29 of the document. I mean, some of them I'm sure are exactly what some Democrat once wrote about how to raise money on -- on President Bush on fear, extreme negative feelings toward the existing administration.
They even say to major donors, they describe them, one of the reasons they give as they're being ego driven and kind of benefiting their wall of fame. I mean, it's -- it's probably accurate, but not the kind of thing necessarily an ego-driven donor wants to see himself called.
CARVILLE: Look, Ed is right. It's kind of embarrassing. You know sometimes there's a thing called an unspoken thought and maybe -- maybe that this fund-raising director should have paid attention to it.
But I have no doubt that it's embarrassing. But I go back to my point is, this doesn't seem to be -- this seems to be in line with -- with some of the stuff that Republicans have said about this -- about this president. I mean, there's been some pretty -- some pretty remarkable stuff.
ROLLINS: I'm always amazed when I get fund-raising letters. And I'm sure you've written them and sent them out.
CARVILLE: I've written a bunch.
ROLLINS: I mean, that you really demean the person who's getting them.
COOPER: Well, James, before I let you go I want to reference something that was on "Good Morning America". I just to want to show our viewers this tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARVILLE: Tom Hanks --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: David Paterson as James Carville this morning.
TOM HANKS, ACTOR: I tell you something right now, you don't get to go to ball games, do they throw in the hot dogs? If they threw in the hot dogs maybe I'd be upset. Who cares if he gets to go to the ball game?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It's not bad.
CARVILLE: Well, yes, it's not bad at all, I want to say. He played Forrest Gump and played me. And somebody I'm sure is going to say we had about the same I.Q. Yes, it's pretty funny it's a compliment to be imitated by Tom Hanks.
ROLLINS: It takes a great actor -- a great actor to play James. He's one of the great strategists. Since Dom DeLuise passed, there's nobody left to play me.
COOPER: Oh, gone too soon. Ed Rollins thanks very much and thanks as well, James Carville.
CARVILLE: You bet.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: I should point out, a number of the younger members on our staff did not know who Dom DeLuise was and including Kyra, so this is the picture of Dom DeLuise, actor, he used to appear a lot with Burt Reynolds. Look up his (INAUDIBLE).
Coming up, take a look at this; massive wave hitting a cruise ship. Two people killed. We're going to explain the video and talk to the author of "The Perfect Storm" Sebastian Junger about rogue waves that can threaten even the biggest ocean liners out there. Plus the secret life of an anthrax suspect. This is a really incredible story. Exclusive interview tonight with the scientist's counselor revealing dark details about what may have driven a man to poison others.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: We're taking you inside the mind of the anthrax killer suspect in a moment. But first Brianna Keilar joins us with a "360 News and Business Bulletin -- Brianna.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, rallies today in California and across the country; hundreds of thousands of students and professors holding these events today to protest deep budget cuts.
In California alone the university system is facing a shortfall of $1 billion. Schools are being forced to increase fees, cancel classes and furlough professors.
On Capitol Hill the House approved a $15 billion jobs bill in a close vote, 217-201. The bill aims to spur job creation by offering tax cuts to companies that hire new workers. The measure now goes back to the Senate for approval after changes were made to it there in the House.
And after heavy rains, a very terrified little dog there rescued from the Los Angeles river; he was caught in rapids for almost 90 minutes. And according to local media reports the rescuers named him "Splash" and he seems to be doing just fine.
You know, this happened in January. I just don't understand it. Southern California, the weather's nice, there's no need for dogs to go throwing themselves into rivers.
COOPER: Yes. Well, I hope its owner was found.
All right. Brianna thanks very much. You can join the live chat right now at ac360.com. Let us know what you think about tonight's stories.
Still ahead, a pretty fascinating look inside the warped mind of a man accused of being the anthrax killer. It's a 360 exclusive interview. You won't see it anywhere else.
An addiction counselor revealing the bizarre thoughts of the chief suspect in the 2001 anthrax attacks. A deeply troubled scientist who she says he was filled with rage. He took his life before being arrested.
Also, a cruise ship trip ending in tragedy when massive deadly waves hit the ship. The video cameras were rolling as the water just poured right in. We have new video of the incident. Two people died. Others were injured. A lot of people terrified.
We'll talk to author Sebastian Junger who wrote the bestselling book "The Perfect Storm". (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Tonight a story you won't see anywhere else. Inside the mind of the man the FBI believes terrorized America in the fall of 2001, the anthrax attacks. People were dying. No one knew who was responsible.
By July of 2008 the FBI was closing in on a suspect. His name was Bruce Ivins, that's him. He was a scientist who actually advised the FBI on that anthrax investigation. He committed suicide before police could arrest him.
Last week the Justice Department closed the case and now a woman who may know Bruce Ivins' dark secrets better than anyone is talking exclusively to CNN. We want to warn you, you may find what she has to say disturbing.
Here's Joe Johns.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDLENT (voice-over): She was an addiction counselor. He was her client. Dr. Bruce Ivins, a microbiologist at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases in Ft. Detrick, Maryland. She says he add a personal problem with vodka and pills as well as a much bigger problem. He was under suspicion for almost single handedly launching the age of bioterrorism by mailing letters laced with deadly anthrax in 2001 to two U.S. Senators and several news organizations. Five people died.
Seven years later it was all coming to a head. Authorities closing in when Ivins walked into Jean Duley's office almost out of control.
JEAN DULEY, ANTHRAX SUSPECT'S ADDICTION COUNSELOR: I'd never seen him that way before. He was extremely angry and nasty in his demeanor. The receptionist actually came back to me and said there's something wrong.
JOHNS: It was July 2008 when Ivins showed up at a group counseling session for addicts that Duley counseled. He was still not admitting anything.
DULEY: He started in on his tirade, and started talking about how he was not going to be indicted. He wasn't going to allow them to indict him on five counts of capital murder. And he was not going to go out willingly and he was going to go out in a blaze of glory.
He said he was getting the -- the next day he was getting a Glock from his son and he was going to take out his colleagues at Ft. Detrick, people that had wronged him at Ft. Detrick, the FBI agents.
And during this -- it wasn't a casual conversation. He was extremely angry and extremely rageful and he described it in detail. All the ammunition he had. He had bought a bulletproof vest. He had made a bulletproof vest. He had written a detailed plan on how to do it.
JOHNS (on camera): with such specific threats, Duley, who had only been seeing Ivins for about six months, says she called the police and they took him to the hospital. Later Ivins was transferred to a Baltimore psychiatric hospital. Then days after being released Ivins killed himself.
When you heard about it, what did you think?
DULEY: I was really angry.
JOHNS: Why?
DULEY: Because I told them not to let him go. I knew he was going to kill himself. He killed himself with Tylenol. I said he planned that. He knew that. He knew that. He knew exactly how much to take, when to take it.
JOHNS: Duley sat down with us this week just days after the FBI officially closed the anthrax cases. The conclusion, that Ivins was the anthrax killer.
So now Duley can speak more freely about her client's mental state. She maintains it wasn't his addiction to vodka or pills but the root problem goes back to his childhood. She says Ivins had a bondage fixation.
DULEY: The bondage and the blindfolding. If you look at that on top of everything else as well you know.
He started that behavior when he was 5 years old. A 5-year-old doesn't come up with that on their own. That's either something that was shown to them, taught them, something he had seen done to someone else. A 5-year-old just doesn't start blindfolding their teddy bears and acting out toward their stuffed animals like he did.
JOHNS (voice-over): He was also fascinated with codes and puzzles.
DULEY: Just secrets, period. Anything to do with codes and, you know, tricking people and figuring it out and trying to baffle people.
JOHNS: And the greatest secret of all, if Ivins committed the anthrax attacks, why? What was his motive? How did he choose his targets? The letters were mailed to Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy, then-Majority Leader Tom Daschle, NBC News, "The New York Post" and the publisher of "The National Enquirer".
DULEY: Nobody can -- without him telling us exactly what his motive was, you can speculate until the day we die what his actual motive was.
JOHNS: What about the persistent theory that he didn't do it at all? That the anthrax attacks may have been the work of some foreign terror group? DULEY: The way that it was done was about control. It was about fear, intimidation and control. Because, you know, it was done to very select people, you know? If it was some foreign terrorist, why pick "The National Enquirer" you know? It was very, very specific targets for very specific reasons, to instill control and authority.
JOHNS (on camera): You believe this is the guy?
DULEY: I know it's the guy. I know it is.
JOHNS (voice-over): The FBI says Ivins did it; case closed though charges were never filed. We will never know the whole story because it died with him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Joe, when her story first came out a lot of people were saying that she violated confidentiality rules and some raised questions about her because she was also in recovery, herself. What does she say about that?
JOHNS: She admits she is in recovery. She freely admits she had a serious problem with alcohol and pills and she says that gave her some insight into Dr. Ivins' problems.
As far as the confidentiality goes, Anderson, she says she had a duty to report Ivins because he had threatened to commit very serious crimes, she says. She didn't have a choice but to go to the police.
COOPER: Really fascinating to hear from her. Joe thanks.
Coming up next on 360, two people killed on a cruise ship when huge waves slammed into the vessel. Sebastian Junger, author of "The Perfect Storm" joins us to talk about rogue waves.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Tonight's shot, chilling new video of killer waves slamming into a cruise ship. Hundreds of passengers on the luxury liner as the water gushed in; at least two people were killed. In a moment we're going to talk to Sebastian Junger, author of "The Perfect Storm" who studied rogue waves.
But first take a look at what happened on the cruise ship. Here's Brianna Keilar.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEILAR: Terror from the sea. An enormous wave, at least 26 feet high washes across the deck of the Louis Cruise Line ship with nearly 2,000 aboard. The moment of impact triggered chaos and fear as passengers ran for their lives. In all, three towering waves struck the ship, killing two people and injuring 14 others.
TOM BERG, CRUISE SHIP PASSENGER: We felt it from the winds blowing through the boat and by the crying. We didn't exactly know then what happened and after a few minutes there was the cry of calling for a doctor.
KEILAR: it happened Wednesday off the coast of Spain. The Louis Majesty, a Greece-based ship, was on the last day of a trip through the Mediterranean. The 45,000-ton, 680-foot liner had just left Barcelona and in the middle of violent weather.
CNN meteorologist Chad Myers --
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Here is a satellite picture from Europe for the past couple of days. A large low pressure center in the Atlantic rolled across Portugal and Spain and into the Mediterranean. Wind gusts of 92, 68, and 60 miles per hour right where the ship was.
KEILAR: You can see the rough water, the swells surrounding the ship, and then on Deck 5 the direct hit. We've slowed the amateur video down as the waves crashed through the windows.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody was really nervous, and we were nervous, too, because the crew -- were running.
KEILAR: Water pours down stairwells and floods several of the 732 staterooms. By nightfall the crippled ship reaches port where officials are investigating the incident.
We wanted to ask officials from the cruise line about the weather conditions at the time of the accident and whether it was safe to sail in rough seas. But a spokesman for the cruise line refused our request for a comment.
Brianna Keilar, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: So we know these were killer waves certainly; three of them at least 26 feet high, but were they rouge waves?
Sebastian Junger is a best-selling author of the book "The Perfect Storm". His new book "War" is about troops stationed in an afghan outpost.
Sebastian Junger joins me now. Thanks for being with us.
SEBASTIAN JUNGER, AUTHOR, "THE PERFECT STORM": My pleasure.
COOPER: These weren't tsunami waves. I mean -- what's a rouge wave?
JUNGER: A tsunami is caused by an underwater earthquake. A rouge wave basically -- it's sort of a popular term. Waves come in all different sizes and most of them are grouped in the middle, sort of average size. But once in a while you have exceptionally small ones and exceptionally big waves.
So a rouge wave is a wave that comes out of nowhere that's extraordinarily large. It's just part of the bell curve that waves are on in a storm. It's called a rouge wave, but really it's just an exceptionally strong wave.
COOPER: And there's a couple of places in the world where, I guess, these kind of bigger waves tend to occur. We're just going to show it on the map: there's off the coast of Japan, also off the coast of South Africa and apparently the East Coast of the United States. Why would these areas be prone to these kind of waves?
JUNGER: What happens is if you have just a huge swell, it's no problem. The boat goes over the swell. It doesn't even notice it. If you have steep breaking wave, that's a problem because the wave discharges its energy in the form of whitewater and hits the boat, sets it back and can literally sink it, break it.
COOPER: So if the boat is to the side of a breaking wave, then it can be broken?
JUNGER: That's right. A swell is no problem. So waves break. When waves break it depends on the steepness, and that's affected by a current. If waves are going into an oncoming current, it shortens the wavelength and makes the wave steeper and they start to breaks. So what they're really saying is that these rouge waves, it's not that there are more rogue waves there, it's that there are more breaking waves in these areas.
COOPER: We also saw a -- I guess it was a rouge wave or at least very big waves in San Francisco just -- I think it was last month. You had people riding these 50-foot waves, and then some spectators were even hurt when a big wave came ashore unexpectedly and knocked a lot of people down. Do rouge waves ever reach the land?
JUNGER: They do. There's a variation in wave size. If you have a data that has typically 10-foot waves, some of the waves are going to be five feet and some of the waves are going to be 15 feet. Those exceptional waves come maybe it's 1 every 1,000; 1 every 10,000, but it's just a statistical reality and those are those huge waves that wash up on the beach.
COOPER: You have a new book coming out, "war", this summer.
JUNGER: That's right, in May.
COOPER: Will you come around when the book comes out?
JUNGER: I'd love to.
COOPER: All right. Sebastian thanks for coming. Appreciate it.
Coming up next the cot and the Congressman catches some Zs in his office. He's doing it so as to cut costs. He also has some pretty hysterical stories about what happens in the middle of the night on Capitol Hill, when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Tonight, power of politics and the huge amounts of money lawmakers need to get both. It's part of our new series on the cost of entry on Capitol Hill. As we've been reporting, the Center for Responsive Politics says that 237 members of Congress are millionaires. That's 44 percent of both houses combined, and a few of them are worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
But not every representative is rolling in dough. We want to introduce to one tonight who says he is saving cash by actually sleeping in his office. He has his believers. Some also question whether this is a stunt. We'll let you be the judge.
Here's Randi Kaye.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Republican Congressman Jason Chaffetz of Utah, bed time looks something like this.
REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: You just kind of -- it's tight, believe me, but you just kind of straighten it out like that and it just fits ever so perfectly.
KAYE: On Capitol Hill he catches Zs on a cot crammed into his office closet.
Chaffetz is known for his fiscal discipline, and his cot which cost him just $44 is a message to Congress. If more members tried this, too, he believes they'd have a different attitude about spending.
(on camera): You consider yourself a fiscal conservative.
CHAFFETZ: Oh yes.
KAYE: And you live like one?
CHAFFETZ: Well, the Chaffetz family has a budget, too.
KAYE (voice-over): A budget he says that doesn't allow for two homes, two mortgages, or two cars. Flights home to Utah each weekend to see his family are covered by an allowance. But even on a Congressman's salary of $174,000 a year, he says Washington is still expensive.
(on camera): Representative Chaffetz says he didn't even look to rent an apartment here in D.C. because he didn't want to spend two grand on what he called a hole in the wall, and he didn't want to bunk up with other Congressman the way New York Senator Chuck Schumer does. He actually sleeps here at this townhouse.
What do you think of Senator Schumer and Senator Durbin, these guys who sort of bunk up together in their home? Is that for you?
CHAFFETZ: Those are not two guys that I'd want to bunk up with.
KAYE (voice-over): Chaffetz says he also paid for his own move from Utah to D.C. and took a pay cut from his previous job. So saving a couple of thousands a month by sleeping on a cot -- priceless.
CHAFFETZ: I have three young kids getting ready for college. Are you kidding? I got real expenses at home.
KAYE: And staying in touch with his family isn't cheap.
CHAFFETZ: We got rid of our land lines in our house and went all mobile. So even my 9-year-old has a mobile phone and that way I can call her and I can text her and I can communicate with her.
KAYE: He likes to tell his kids about the cleaning crew that surprised him in the middle of the night. This sign put an end to that. But it's still pretty noisy.
CHAFFETZ: There's like a Zamboni that goes down about 2:30 in the morning cleaning the floors. You get used to it.
KAYE: He's even used to showering all the way downstairs. In flip flops he heads to the House of Representatives gym.
(on camera): So is this the glamorous life in Congress you imagined?
CHAFFETZ: You know when you're there and you have a big vote and everything, yes.
KAYE (voice-over): Congressman Chaffetz isn't sure how long he can live like this, but when the lights go out, life in Washington is a dream.
Sleep well, Congressman.
Randi Kaye, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Hey, that's it for 360. Thanks for watching.
"LARRY KING" starts now.
I'll see you tomorrow night.
