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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Lance Armstrong Confesses; American Killed In Ongoing Hostage Crisis; Former New Orleans Mayor Indicted; Autopsy For Murdered Lotto Winner
Aired January 18, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Erin, thanks very much.
The Lance Armstrong confession continues tonight, but as we get ready for part two, plenty of people have big problems with part one. Our panel those who knew Armstrong or know Armstrong well will join us momentarily.
Also tonight, mayor Michael Bloomberg goes to Washington, throwing support behind the president's new efforts on gun control. Tonight, my planetoid exclusive interview with the mayor on about why the window for action on gun control may be closing fast.
But, we begin breaking news. We just learned that the murky and confusing hostage situation in the Algeria dessert has now turned deadly for at least one American. The status of other Americans is still unclear. And even as survivors tell chilling stories of their captivity. There are still a lot we do not know about what is really going on.
Jill Dougherty is joining is following a late development in the state department. She joins us not with what she has found.
Jill, what have you heard? What's the latest?
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, we can confirm and this actually is coming from Victoria Nuland, who is the spokesperson for the state department, that one American unfortunately did die. They're confirming the death of Frederick Buttaccio in that hostage situation in Algeria. They're expressing, the state department, their done condolences for that death. Out of respect, they say, for the family's privacy, there's no further comment. In fact, there are no details exactly on how Frederick Buttaccio did die.
And then separately from a U.S. official saying that six Americans were either freed or escaped. No details exactly on where they may be. Others are unaccounted for.
And then finally, as you remember, Anderson, earlier today, the press spokesperson, Victoria Nuland, did say that some Americans were being held hostage still. So, that's the total that we have got right now. And very, very few, in fact, practically no details, except for these numbers right now. COOPER: So, the bottom line, is this operation still going on to try to free the rest of them?
DOUGHERTY: You know, as of the last time we heard, it was. So that also is unclear, but officials were saying that it was still going on. You know, it's a very big complex, and the Algerian military were going in there to various areas, a lot of buildings, separate areas, and looking for people and looking for terrorists. So maybe that explains it.
COOPER: Two days now going on this operation. That does not seem to bode well for the organization of this operation.
Jill, I know you're working your sources of the story. We're going to check back with you in a few minutes to get more details.
Now, though, "Keeping Them Honest." Lance Armstrong's riveting but incomplete confession using performance enhancing drugs. Incomplete and many say plenty of other things as well, some say calculating, cocky, and cruel. Whatever you call it, his effort continues later tonight as Oprah Winfrey runs the second installment of her interview with the disgraced seven times Tour de France winner.
Immediately after the interview, he has done at 10: p.m. eastern. We'll have another edition of "360" with our panelist. So, I hope you join us for that.
This portion expected to deal with his betrayal of Livestrong, the cancer charity that he founded. In a moment, some people are less than happy with his confession so far. People he targeted for trying to tell the truth while he was still lying. Betsy Andreu for one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETSY ANDREU, FRANKIE ANDREU'S WIFE: This is a guy who used to be my friend who decimated me. He could have come clean. He owed it to me. He owes it to the sport that he destroyed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Her husband used to ride with Lance Armstrong. She's going to join us later tonight, and again, will be reacting instantly to what she hears from Armstrong tonight.
Last night, she said Armstrong dropped the ball, that he owed to her and her husband Frankie, his former teammate, to fully come clean. After all, When Armstrong was lying, they were telling the truth, and he tried to destroy them. What she reacted so sharply too last night has to do with how little he close to say at times, but also the tone he used to say what he did say.
For example, his former masseuse, Emma O'Reilly. When she wrote a book about what she witnessed, he called her a whore and an alcoholic. He sued her for libel. "Keeping them Honest," you think that would stick in your mind, yet talking to Oprah, he seems hazy about the whole affair. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, TV HOST: What do you want to say about Emma O'Reilly?
LANCE ARMSTRONG, FORMER PROFESSIONAL CYCLIST: She -- she's one of these people that I have to apologize to.
WINFREY: Yes.
ARMSTRONG: She's one of these people that got run over. Got bullied.
WINFREY: Yes. Isn't she -- you sued her.
ARMSTRONG: To be honest, Oprah, we sued so many people, I don't -- I'm sure we did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Wow. He' he's drawing a blank on the details. Can't remember who he sued. All those bogus lawsuits blend together, I guess. "Keeping them Honest," we could find four lawsuits. Two against the U.S. anti-doping agency, one against "the Times" in London, and one against Emma O'Reilly. So, it is not like there were too many for him, actually, to remember.
On the other hand, when it comes to Betsy Andreu, it all stands back into focus. As you'll hear from this clip from the Oprah interview, he's absolutely 100 percent sure about one detail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WINFREY: Is it well with the two of you? Have you made peace?
ARMSTRONG: No.
WINFREY: OK.
ARMSTRONG: Because -- because they have been hurt too badly.
WINFREY: Yes.
ARMSTRONG: And a 40-minute conversation isn't enough.
WINFREY: Yes, because you repeatedly characterize her as crazy. Called her other horrible things.
ARMSTRONG: Well, I clarified -- I did call her crazy.
WINFREY: You did.
ARMSTRONG: I did. I did.
WINFREY: If you were to go back and look add all of the tapes and things you said over the years about Betsy, OK. -- ARMSTRONG: And I -- I think she would be OK with me saying this, but I can take the liberty to say it, and I said, listen, I called you crazy. I called you a bitch, I called you all these things, but I never called you that.
WINFREY: Because that's one of the things she said.
ARMSTRONG: She thought I said you're --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Got that? Crazy, yes, bitch, yes, fat, no way. He's got a kind of half smile as he says it. So, you can decide for yourself what that means. But, it's clearly not going over well with some of Lance Armstrong's victims and there are other things that on closer inspection sound strange, not to mention simply not filling the facts. Here is Oprah asking Armstrong about the size and scope of his cheating operation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARMSTRONG: It was very conservative, very risk averse, very aware of what mattered and didn't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: "Keeping Them Honest," Armstrong is being uncharacteristically modest here. In summing up 1,000 pages of evidence against the cycling team, Lance Armstrong, headed U.S. anti- doping agency and I quote, the evidence shows beyond a doubt that the U.S. postal service pro cycling team ran the most sophisticated, professional and successful doping program that the sport has ever seen.
So, when Armstrong down place the doping ring, he ran as somehow conservative and cautious, he's just not telling the truth. He compared it to what he said when it is compared to the east German Olympic program, it wasn't that sophisticated as the government program was.
All that was just part one of his interview with Oprah. Part two is tonight. To say the least, a lot of people very anxious to hear what he has to say next. Again, we have assembled some people who know Armstrong incredibly well. Daniel Coyle is co-author with a former Armstrong teammate whistle blower Tyler Hamilton of the "Secret race inside the hidden world of the Tour de France doping paparazzi in winning at all cause. Bill Strickland is here as well. He is an editor at large at "Bicycling Magazine," has written about Armstrong for years. As always, CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Bill, you actually have been in touch with Armstrong since that interview. And I'm wondering and I guess in the last 24 hours. What can you say about what he said?
BILL STRICKLAND, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, BICYCLING MAGAZINE: We had an exchange, last night, he asked if I watched the interview. COOPER: Did he think you might not be watching?
STRICKLAND: Maybe he thought I was busy.
I gave him my opinion of what I thought he had done right, and the parts I thought he was wrong about. And we had, I would say, kind of a respectful exchange about that. This morning, we had another one. And it ended with something I thought was very interesting. He kind of signed off by saying, work to do.
COOPER: What did you take that to mean?
STRICKLAND: It could mean a number of things. It could be as we're saying, that he does indeed see this as a process. But it is Lance, and always I'm aware that, you know, he might be using me with a goal in mind, so he might be just trying to get me to let people think that, you know, there's a process.
COOPER: One of the things you said tonight, last night after we were getting off the air, I mean, you have covered him, you really, I mean, he has dominated your career for --
STRICKLAND: Since 1999.
COOPER: Since 1999. And I'm wondering on a personal level, to have been so wrapped up in this guy and to hear that, what was that like?
STRICKLAND: We were all riveted, especially when it started. It was just something I never thought I would hear was his confession. And then, I just felt -- I talked to someone else who he apologized to, and they had the same reaction. I just felt kind sad through a lot of it because he was stumbling so badly.
COOPER: You wrote a cover article about him in 2011.
STRICKLAND: Right.
COOPER: In which after years of being a huge supporter, you said you had finally received information that -- that confirmed for you that he had doped. You never revealed what that information was. Can you say now what it was?
STRICKLAND: I can. It was a conversation I had with Lance. I remember being on a bike ride once and I asked him, did you dope? And you know, by now, it's kind of a cliche that he looked you in the eyes and says no, but in all the time I had known him, he was always very adamant and aggressive in saying he hadn't dope doped. And we were having a conversation, toward the end of all this, and you know I said, look, I got to tell you, I think you have doped. I'm pretty sure you have doped, and I'm at a point where I have to say something pretty soon. And he didn't deny doping.
And there was -- you know, it sounds a little weird, but in context, there was just a moment where I was like, oh, he really did it. And that was -- there were plenty of other, you know, plenty of other people who had spoken up. There was always a lot of evidence, but that was the moment where I absolutely knew he had doped.
COOPER: What was his response to that cover story?
STRICKLAND: He was mad. I got sort of the angry, screaming phone call. And you know, it's just -- of course, I would. And I thought that would be the last time I would ever talk to him. And then, maybe three or four months later, we started having communication again, which I also found fascinating.
COOPER: Betsy Andreu, who was here last night and was going to be here in the 10:00 hour. You know, she was in a hospital room where she and testified to the fact she heard Lance Armstrong tell doctors the myriad of drugs he had been doping and using. He denied that ever took place and this became part of a lawsuit that Lance Armstrong we were settled and he actually won some money.
Last night, Oprah asked Armstrong about Betsy Andreu and what she had said and what happened in the hospital room. And what happened in their conversation. Here's part of that conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WINFREY: Was Betsy telling the truth about the Indiana hospital overhearing you in 1996?
ARMSTRONG: I'm not going to take that on. And I'm laying down on that one.
WINFREY: Was Betsy lying?
ARMSTRONG: I'm just not -- I'm going to put that one down. I don't want to -- she asked me and I asked her not to talk about --
WINFREY: What you said?
ARMSTRONG: The details of the call. It was a confidential, personal conversation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And this was Betsy's reaction to that immediately after last night on this broadcast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREU: You owed it to me, Lance, and you dropped the ball. After what you have done to me, what you have done to my family, and you couldn't own up to it. And now, we're supposed to believe you? You have one chance at the truth. This is it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Daniel, why do you think he would not answer that question?
DANIEL COYLE, CO-AUTHOR, THE SECRET RACE: I think the same reason he has -- he's got stubbornness in him, he has defiance in him. There's no good legal reason not to answer that. There is no good monetary reason not to answer that. The only reason is he wants to prove to Betsy that he's stronger than she is. You know, its stubbornness. And that's what made Armstrong great at times, to put that will against cancer, to see what he can do. It is when you put that will into his very corrupt sport of cycling, he created this empire. But he won't give it up. And that's what I find fascinating about this. Why not? Why not at this point say, you know, Betsy, you're right? It's against this mountain of evidence, it happened. That's right. There's testimony that it happened.
COOPER: Is it possible, Jeff, that you know, I guess there was other testimony in this case, and maybe somebody backed up Lance, we don't know what the testimony was, but somebody backed up Lance and so he doesn't want to betray that?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, I find it puzzling, too, because if you look at the totality of the interview, he said many, many more incriminating things than recounting that conversation. It was a long time ago. It's not one of the core issues in the larger public case against Lance Armstrong. I mean, obviously, it's very important to her, but it's not a big part of the case. I am still puzzled by why he did this at all. And I think --
COOPER: Why he did the interview.
TOOBIN: Why he did this interview, because I don't think he helped himself in any possible way.
COOPER: Just quickly, in terms of the things you still all think he is still not being fully honest about, I mean, saying that he wasn't the king pin, he admitted he was a bully but he never directly pressured people to dope, do you both think that is not true? Yes.
He also said he, you know, couldn't have gotten people fired for not doping. He didn't do that. Do you think that not true?
STRICKLAND: It's not true.
TOOBIN: Not true.
COOPER: You think so as well?
COYLE: Yes.
COOPER: When he says it wasn't that sophisticated, that it was actually pretty conservative, it was kind of a level playing field because everyone else was doping, he didn't have access to drugs or you know, money that other people didn't have access to, that's not true, right?
COYLE: He wrote an entire book showing that wasn't true.
COOPER: Right. I mean, he had more money than anybody else. Other teams didn't have private jets and guys in motorcycles following them along, do you agree with that. STRICKLAND: I think his feeling is we all agreed to play by the same rules. All the contenders agreed that you are going to dope. And don't fault me if I was better at it. So there's -- there's a semantics thing going on with him when he talks about the level playing field.
TOOBIN: He's also very categorical that he stopped in 2005.
COOPER: Right.
TOOBIN: What about -- he didn't dope during his comeback.
COOPER: He had a comeback in 2009, also in 2010, he said I didn't dope, but they had changed the doping -- the way it was tested and there was like -- I forget what they called it.
COYLE: Biological passport.
COOPER: Right, Which they had analyzed his blood, and they said his blood in 2009 and 2010 didn't match what it used to.
COYLE: It showed clear signs of doping manipulation. There's less than a 1 in a million chance it would have happened naturally.
COOPER: So, you think he's lying still about saying he didn't dope in 2009.
COYLE: That makes sense. A lot of these guys, their first time through, they don't tell the whole truth. They hold on it.
COOPER: You are telling Hamilton, you wrote a book with you said the same thing.
COYLE: Same thing. The first interview wasn't good. The 50th interview, we got somewhere. It takes a long, long time to excavate. It's like you're excavating a whole city that has been buried piece by piece by piece.
TOOBIN: I just think that's pretty amazing if in fact he's still lying about doping during the tour de France, I mean, why do this? Why expose yourself to this sort of ridicule?
COOPER: Isn't that the same thing John Edwards did on "nightline" where he gave a partial confession and said that's not my baby even though he knew that the baby was his.
COYLE: That's human nature.
COOPER: Human nature.
TOOBIN: If that is his role model --
COOPER: We're going to continue with you guys. You know these cases better than anybody, so, I appreciate if you sticking around. You're going to be around in the 10:00 hour as well for immediate reaction to what we hear tonight. Bill Strickland, Daniel Coyle, and also more from Jeff. Also, we will have Betsy Andreu here.
Let us know what you think. Follow me on twitter @andersoncooper. I'm tweeting about this already tonight.
Coming up next, anyone who has ever worn a live strong bracelet or has your friend battling cancer, you want to stay tuned. We are going to look inside the foundation that Lance Armstrong started and tarnished. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, we are waiting to hear tonight the part two of his Oprah interview. Lance Armstrong is going to talk about what impact he thinks his lying might have the charity that he founded.
After part one air, Livestrong issued a statement which reads in part quote, "we, at Livestrong foundation are disappointed by the news that Lance Armstrong misled people during and after his cycling career including us. Earlier this week, Lance apologize to our staff and we accepted his apology in order to move and chart a strong independent course."
In October, Armstrong resigned as chairman of Livestrong. Now, the question is, how is the charity going to fair in the face of his confession.
Deb Feyerick has more now on the Livestrong legacy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The intensity, passion, and popularity Lance Armstrong brought to racing, he also brought to fighting cancer. Helping more than 2.5 million survivors and their families since 1997. And turning a simple yellow bracelet into a must-have fashion accessory and call to action.
ARMSTRONG: We have now raised half a billion dollars to fight this disease around the world. And we have work to do. We have a lot of work to do.
FEYERICK: Whether you credit the success of Livestrong to raise that kind of money?
KEN BERGER, CEO, PRESIDENT, CHARITYNAVIGATOR.COM: I think part of it has been their affiliation with Lance Armstrong.
FEYERICK: Ken Berger heads a watch dog group that rates some 6,000 charities based on how they spend, manage and distribute money.
How does charity navigator ranked the Livestrong foundation?
BERGER: We give it four stars which is our highest rating, which means that it's exceptional and well above standard in it performance.
FEYERICK: Armstrong started what was then called the Lance Armstrong foundation 16 years ago with a group of friends over Mexican food. At the time, he was undergoing chemo for testicular cancer. Two years later. It took off when he won his first tour de France. The charity's mission to empower the cancer community, helped people with clinical trials, second opinions and insurance, and changed global public policy.
ARMSTRONG: I can guarantee you that the Livestrong message will touch all conduits of our society.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It needs a global response. Lance Armstrong and his group are the right people to do it.
FEYERICK: For it to have the guts, so strong, so quickly, is that unique?
BERGER: It's very rear rare. There are very, very few charities that have that kind of rise and growth. It's exceptional, it really is.
FEYERICK: Founded on Armstrong's belief that sharing cancer information is a moral and ethical imperative, the top tier charity partners with the CDC to create a national platform working aggressively in Texas to pass $3 billion in bonds for cancer research, and --
ARMSTRONG: Throughout this campaign, I promised to make it my mission to keep cancer at the forefront.
FEYERICK: Even pressed presidential candidates on ways they would commit to fight the disease.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A disease that has touched the life of nearly every American.
FEYERICK: Now all of that is threatened. Armstrong stepped down from the charity and removed his name and realizes his dream to end cancer, like his medals, may all be gone.
ARMSTRONG: This mission is bigger than me. It's bigger than any individual. The mission absolutely must go on.
FEYERICK: Debra Feyerick, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: So, how do Livestrong's donors feel now that Armstrong has sort of come clean? Jeff Mulder is our Michigan businessman at the largest single fund-raiser for the Livestrong organization in 2012. He has donate more than a million dollar at his own money. Through the foundation, he's raised between two and $300,000 from others. He joins me now.
Appreciate you being with us. I'm wondering, did you watch the interview? Do you feel any way different about Livestrong now that you know that Lance Armstrong doped? JEFF MULDER, LIVESTRONG'S BIGGEST SINGLE FUNDRAISER OF 2012: I certainly did watch the interview. We were glowed to it all evening last night. And do I feel differently about Livestrong? Absolutely not.
COOPER: Do you feel cheated in any way by Lance Armstrong or betrayed?
MULDER: Not a bit, but I have to say when I listened to the first part of your show on the internet here, and you know, I wasn't hurt by the whole process. I'm a fund-raiser and an advocate of Livestrong, a fighter against cancer, but I'm not part of the bicycling world, I'm not somebody who has been hurt by this process.
COOPER: Right. You're not somebody he bullied or anything. To you, was Livestrong Lance Armstrong, or was my sense is, there was more to Livestrong in your mind than Lance Armstrong?
MULDER: Absolutely. And other than, you know, the inspiration I got watching him go up in 2004, it has always been about, well, I guess it hasn't always been about cancer. It was how to stay in shape, and so I signed for all four Livestrong events one year. But, I went to the first event, and from that point on, it's all been about cancer.
COOPER: And its individual people's stories that inspire you to stay involved in Livestrong. I mean, do you think this organization, this charity can continue now that Lance Armstrong has been revealed to have lied and bullied and all the rest?
MULDER: Absolutely. You know, I don't know the people that I know at Livestrong, the people I associate with, my peers to fund other fund-raisers, I don't know anybody that is doing it for Lance. You know, even the top fund-raisers that for the last five years that I have been associated with it, who have been able to go to Austin and do the private ride, I don't know that any of them are raising $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 just so they can spend three minutes on a bicycle next to Lance.
COOPER: Right, Big fund raiser get a private ride with him for a few minutes and that's I guess for some people, it may be an incentive, but you're saying for you, it wasn't really part of it. I heard you say you actually respect him more today than you did before the interview. Why is that?
MULDER: You know, as my wife and I have talked about that over the last 24 hours, you know, I don't know politically, I don't know legally what happens from this point on. I have never been associated with that. But it's a spot at this stage of the game to start over for him and for, I guess, other people. And as far as I can tell, he didn't have to do it. I don't know why he did the interview.
COOPER: Some people say if he wanted to compete in triathlons, if you wanted to do any kind of athletic events or, you know, remain in the public eye in any way, he had to do something. You don't think that's true? MULDER: I don't think so. I guess that's just my opinion, but he could have continued to bury this, and the people that thought he was lying would continue to think he was lying and the people that didn't know would stay on the fence and the people who were defending him would continue to defend him. But last night, as far as I can tell, he put it all on the table.
COOPER: And you're going to continue to donate. You're going to continue to get others to donate as well to Livestrong?
MULDER: Absolutely.
COOPER: Jeff, I appreciate you being on, and you know, I'm sorry for what your organization has been going through, and I appreciate your continued support and your being with us. Thank you.
MULDER: Thank you.
COOPER: All right, we're going to have more on the breaking news. We're trying to cut through a tangled mess of conflicting reports in the hostage situation in Algeria. You know, this government apparently wasn't even informed this operations tried to free hostages have that is going to take place. Some hostages have been freed. We know one American has died. Jill Dougherty is digging for more answers. We'll figure out what she's got when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: More now on our breaking news. The hostage standoff has claimed at least one American life and we heard just moments ago that six Americans are now free. As you might imagine, there's a scramble for action tonight, but also for simple information.
Let's go back to Jill Dougherty who is working her sources. I'm really stunned at how little information there is. This is really the second day of this operation and there's still so much we don't know.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's true, Anderson. But I think, you know, look at the context. This number one is Algeria. It's a very controlled country, the military controlling it. They're not used to doing operations, putting it mildly, the way the United States or European countries would.
They go in and some people have described their operations previously as pretty brutal, so they go in, and they just carry out an operation, period. And that is why the United States and the Europeans that I was speaking to were disturbed by the fact that they weren't warned and also got very conflicting information.
COOPER: Yes, I think in a case like this, that is important to know what we don't know is what we do know. We know one American has been killed, six have been freed. Do we know how many hostages remain hostage, how many people remain hostage? Do we know how many terrorists remain, and are they still in control of parts of this oil field, this plant? DOUGHERTY: Well, on the numbers, we don't really. I mean, we knew that originally, we believed according to Leon Panetta, that there were about seven or eight Americans. If you have six freed or escaped but no details about that, one dead, that about where we are right now.
Victoria Nuland, who is the spokesperson for the State Department earlier today did say there are Americans who are being held as hostages. And the other, I think, interesting wrinkle in this is Mike Rogers who is the head of the House Intelligence Committee said this evening that the Algerians have launched some type of operation today, which freed more hostages.
And as he put it, those hostage takers are hunkered down. So there was some progress, but that still raise the issue of now, what are the hostage takers doing?
COOPER: Do we know about general number of hostages, beyond just Americans?
DOUGHERTY: You know, I have seen numbers also on that. I wouldn't even want to speculate. I did see about, you know, 60, 70, but I can't even say that's correct.
COOPER: OK, Jill, listen, I appreciate the reporting. It's a difficult thing to try to figure out. Thanks for the latest update. Let's get caught up on some of the other stories we're following. Right now, Martin Savidge joins us with the "360 Bulletin" -- Martin.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, former New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin who made headlines during the city is hit from Hurricane Katrina, you remember in 2005, he was indicted today of 21 federal corruption charges. He was accused of defrauding the city in a bribery and kickback scheme. Nagin is now facing fraud, money laundering, and other charges.
And an "AC 360" follow, in fact the story I brought you the body of the murdered scratch lotto winner, Urooj Khan, he was exhumed today at a Chicago cemetery. Officials are hoping that the autopsy will help solve Khan's mysterious death. Khan died from cyanide poisoning after picking up his lotto winnings at nearly half a million after taxes.
And the CDC says 48 states now reporting widespread flu cases. More elderly are being hospitalized and now 29 children have died in the outbreak.
Then there's this, Lady Gaga about to lose her title as the most popular celebrity in Twitter sometime Sunday. Justin Bieber expected to pass her and have the most Twitter followers. They each have more than 33 million followers with just 46,000 separating them right now. First, the Mayan calendar, now this, hard to believe.
COOPER: Passing of the torch. Martin, thanks so much.
Tonight, the bizarre story of Manti Te'O's fake girlfriend is only getting stranger. We have more details. The Notre Dame linebacker isn't talking yet. Others are reportedly pointing fingers at this guy. We're going to tell you who he is and what allegations he's facing just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back. It's been two full days since deadspin.com exposed the feel good sports story of the year as pure fiction and questions about Manti Te'O's fake girlfriend just keep piling up.
Other than a statement released Wednesday, the Notre Dame linebacker hasn't spoken publicly about Lennay Kekua since the story broke. Te'O said he was the victim of an embarrassing hoax, that he was duped.
There are a lot of questions about that claim, a lot of things that just don't add up. ESPN has reported that some Notre Dame players knew that Lennay Kekua wasn't real. A former teammate told ESPN's Bob Holtzman they kept silent because they knew Te'O likes attention.
The burning question is who made up Lennay Kekua in the first place and why? ESPN says Te'O is huddling with his family, discussing what to do next. In the meantime, a lot of reports are focusing on this guy, Ronaiah Tuiasosopo.
ESPN Shelly Smith says he confessed to a friend back in December that he was involved in the hoax. So who exactly is he. He's Gary Tuchman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Manti Te'O in a golf cart, remaining behind the tight security of an NFL training facility in Bradenton, Florida, also remaining silent about the bizarre hoax.
A radio station in Salt Lake City did an interview with Alema Te'O, and although CNN can't confirm t he said he's Manti's uncle. He said he talked to Manti's father in Hawaii.
ALEMA TE'O, MANTI'S UNCLE: The family was really disappointed. Not necessarily disappointed in Manti, but they felt for him. Everybody's very concerned about his mental state and how he's feeling right now. It's sad to believe that someone would go out of their way to sabotage his character and what he stood for.
TUCHMAN: Alema Te'O said Manti likely believed he really met his fake girlfriend and blamed one man for trying to sabotage Manti's character. Says the man's named is Ronaiah Tuiasosopo, the same man deadspin.com and ESPN have also alleged to have been involved.
CNN has not been able to get in touch with Tuiasosopo and has not been able to confirm the allegation, but Alema Te'O said he and Manti both met Tuiasosopo just this past November when Notre Dame played USC in Los Angeles.
Tuiasosopo was an athlete, too. This picture from when he was a senior in a California high school. Deadspin.com points to him as an instigator who in his weird scenario created Lennay. CNN has talked to Tuiasosopo's uncle who vouches for his character.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have known the kid all my life and this is the first time I heard stuff like that.
TUCHMAN: CNN also caught up with Tuiasosopo's father who is a church pastor in California. He told us off camera, the truth will come out. God knows our character.
(on camera): One truth we do know is that girlfriend, Lennay Kekua is a fictional character. But even that is being argued with. Strangely enough, an NFL player with the Arizona cardinals has told ESPN he knows Lennay.
Regan Mauia who has been on and off the Cardinals roster said he met Lennay in American Samoa in 2011 saying she and I became good friends, we would talk off and on, just checking up on each other kind of thing. I am close to her family.
Another mystery in a story where there are few clear answers and the man who could straighten it out better than anyone is saying nothing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Gary Tuchman joins me now. So is Notre Dame saying anything about this situation?
TUCHMAN: Two days ago, Anderson, the athletic director spoke, was very general, said they support Te'O 100 percent, but he said nothing specific, and Notre Dame is saying nothing yet, nothing today. The university apparently believes it has met its ethical burden.
Regarding Te'O, he has not spoken to reporters. As we said, we don't know when or if he will. We do know, however, he's going to have to talk to somebody. That is NFL team officials. If he wants to reach his full financial value in the NFL, the first-round draft pick can get $20 million to $25 million.
He will have to speak to them because over the years NFL team officials have made it clear they're weary of drafting head cases and they will want to make sure that Te'O is not a head case.
COOPER: Interesting. Gary, appreciate it. Tim Burke of deadspin.com broke the story two days ago. He joins me now along with Tony Barnhart, a college football analyst at CBS Sports.
The story gets stranger and stranger. The "Honolulu Star Advertiser" has some new details about that December 6th phone call between Te'O and his alleged girlfriend who had been dead for months, apparently. What did they find out? TIMOTHY BURKE, EDITOR, DEADSPIN.COM: Well, Anderson, and it's good to be back with you, it's important that we remember that all of the egregious falsehoods that found their way to newspapers and to broadcast television about the relationship between Manti Te'O and Lennay Kekua came from either the Te'O family or from Manti himself.
So when we hear another outrageous story about drug dealers faking deaths, et cetera, that comes from a member of the Te'O family, you have to take it with the appropriate amount of skepticism. And you know, in addition, as we just saw in that report, we have some individuals who claim to be uncles or cousins or otherwise relatives of either Tuiasosopo or Te'O.
In our investigation at deadspin.com, we found several people who claimed to be related somehow to these people and it turned out they couldn't establish any of the family contacts. As for the story, I'm sort of withholding any judgment until we can find some other, you know, reflection, evidence, somebody saying something about it online, anything like that, that would lend us any sort of validity.
COOPER: This guy, Tuiasosopo -- I keep messing up his name, Tuiasosopo, he's not talking. Nobody has been able to talk to him yet, right?
BURKE: No. We have had his number since the weekend. He's not answering our calls. He is not answering our texts, and maybe in his best interest, you know, to finally step up and talk to somebody because he's coming out as the bad guy in all of this.
And it's very possible he is the bad guy. You know, he just kind of wants some answers. We know he has been doing this sort of Lennay Kekua pretending to be a woman online for a very long time.
And we know that Manti Te'O is in no way the first victim of that scheme. What we don't know is what any kind of possible benefit that Tuiasosopo could have for engaging in this kind of charade.
COOPER: Tony, you have been following college football for many years. Have you ever encountered a story anything like this where details about a player's life turned out to be totally false?
TONY BARNHART, REPORTER, CBS SPORTS (via telephone): No, Anderson, there's never been another story like this. There are a lot of bizarre things that happen in college football. Of course, we're about a year removed away from the Jerry Sandusky story at Penn State, which was something we had never had to deal with.
But to have this kind of narrative about this kind of player to get to the national championship game, to be a finalist for the Heisman trophy, for all of that to happen and for it to all unravel in a matter of few days when Deadspin broke the story, there's never been anything like it.
COOPER: Tony, was Notre Dame -- did it surprise you they took so long? They didn't say anything until after Deadspin broke the story. They had known for quite some time. They say they launched an investigation, but they remained silent. Did that surprise you?
BARNHART: Well, it surprised me a little bit, but I shouldn't be surprised. I understand what a lot of college athletics is about now is protecting the brand. This is not an analogous story with Penn State, but Penn State found itself in the same position, to protect a brand against a difficult story.
The timeline that I read, that Jack and Timothy put together is that they found out about it on December 26th, Notre Dame did their investigation and they got the results on January 4th. That's three days from the national championship game.
Even as a reporter, I wish they had come clean then, but they're not going to do that three days before playing for the national championship. They're not going to do it.
COOPER: Timothy, there's an ESPN report that Tuiasosopo confessed the hoax to a friend in December and said Te'O wasn't involved at all. Was that a story you buy, can you knock it down? What do you make?
BURKE: We've talked to two people who were familiar with that confession in our initial investigation, and we have also spoken with at least one of the other people that Shelley Smith spoke with in her report today.
Indeed, one of the individuals she spoke with in her outside the lines report on ESPN today indicated to us that they were very skeptical that Manti Te'O was a 100 percent victim. And the person that we spoke with who initially told us about the confession also indicated to us that they suspected that Manti Te'O had a part in this.
COOPER: Interesting. Tim burke, appreciate you being on again. Thank you so much again. You're the one who broke the story. Tony Barnhart, appreciate you being with us. Thanks.
COOPER: Just ahead, a primetime exclusive, part two of my interview with New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg. Today he was in Washington pressing his mayors to lobby Congress on gun control. Why he thinks they have more leverage now ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back. For tonight's big 360 interview, a primetime exclusive, part two of my interview with New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg. He's long been an advocate of stricter gun laws. In Washington today at the U.S. Conference of Mayors, he urged mayors to lobby Congress to support President Obama's gun violence proposals.
Mayor Bloomberg and his staff have been talking with the White House since the Newtown shootings. We taped the interview yesterday before he left for the mayor's conference in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: I know you have been talking to the vice president's office. Has he outlined any strategy for trying to get that through?
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK: Our staffs have been talking and I'm going to be down there tomorrow, talking to the mayors, one of the things I want to do. We have 800 mayors in the Mayors Coalition Against Illegal Guns. I want them to start calling and going and visiting the congressmen and the senators in their districts and their states.
And they've got to explain to them why their constituents, which the mayors may be in closer contact with, why they want it done, why it would make a difference from a safety point of view, an economic point of view, to have a lot lower murder rate and lot lower suicide rate, and the way you get that is a lot fewer guns.
COOPER: Wolf Blitzer was talking to the president of the NRA the other day, asking him about the high capacity magazines.
BLOOMBERG: What did he say?
COOPER: Let's play it.
DAVID KEENE, PRESIDENT, NRA: There's a range, and there's shooting in a lot of the competitions they do. I don't need one, you might need one, but we're not everybody. But the fact of the matter of is, you get into this, the president says, we don't need 30-round magazines, how about a ten-round magazine.
Andrew Cuomo says, well I can do better, how about a seven-round magazine. The fact of the matter that the kinds of people who do this, particularly the mentally unbalanced who were the most likely people to do shouldn't have any magazines, they shouldn't have any gun.
BLOOMBERG: OK, there's a limit. You know, the army has a rifle, they call it, it's like a cannon on the front of a tank. It shoots a shell that has a nuclear bomb in it. I mean, everybody should be able to have one somebody might want to set off nuclear bombs?
No, there's a limit. Some things were never envisioned by the founding fathers to be things to carry around. I thought Colin Powell and Stanley McChrystal, actually, McChrystal's combat record is recent and he knows what happens, and his attitude is these things don't belong on the streets of our cities or our suburbs. I think there is a change in this country.
COOPER: You think there has been a sort of tipping point?
BLOOMBERG: You know, 33 people killed every single day. There's 12,000 people murdered every year and 16,000, some number like that, suicides with weapons. And somehow or other, Connecticut children, you know, suburban, nice, normal Rockwell kind of image in your mind.
Somehow, that has touched the American public's heart. Nobody is ever sure why some things emote and some things don't. If you knew that, they would figure out how to get better rates and sell more advertising and all that sort of stuff. People make a living doing that. But somehow or other, this just got to the American public.
Now the president and vice president, and we'll give them all as much help as we can, and I think Joe Biden really carried the ball and did a great job, and the president came through. Those are the guys who have to lead. They have got to get Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid to bring along Democrats, and we've --
COOPER: Harry Reid is tough on this. He's pretty pro gun.
BLOOMBERG: Well, he's going to have to listen to his constituents. I think he will. I think you're going to find in all of these places, when I talk to people around the country, there's just enough is enough. You see people who have been big gun rights advocates all of a sudden saying, well, we can't keep doing this.
COOPER: Mr. Mayor, thank you.
BLOOMBERG: You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Mayor Michael Bloomberg. Coming up, the Manti Te'O's, a Twitter war for the record books and for the "Ridiculist."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Time now for the "Ridiculist." Tonight, we're adding the Twitter war between Donald Trump and Deadspin. This week, Deadspin broke the story about the Notre Dame linebacker who had a fake girlfriend, and Trump was apparently impressed. Trump tweeted this yesterday, "Congratulations to Tom and Timothy Burke of Deadspin for exposing the Manti Te'O fiasco."
To which they responded to Donald Trump, go -- yourself. Please allow me to read some of what trump has tweeted today. First, let me get in the mood here. Quote, Deadspin's disgusting response will teach me and others not to be nice anymore, a sad lesson.
Yes, it's true, so sad. I'll really miss the nice Donald Trump. Way to go, Deadspin. Quote, "Deadspin will never make it. They don't understand graciousness or money. And best guy is leaving?" Quote, "Ms. Alabama stopped by to say hello today. See, he is totes over you, Deadspin."
Deadspin had their big payday taken from them by others in the media, snap. Quote, "You wouldn't believe how tall and beautiful Catherine Webb is, 6'5" in heels and also a total winner in every respect, i.e., you know who is not tall and beautiful? Deadspin, mostly because you're a web site."
Quote, "Deadspin guys are total losers. They had their story stolen right from under their bad complexions. Other media capitalized." Truly, when faced with twitter, his was a response for the ages. I'm going to put those ages at about 14 to 15.
Twitter's wars usually with words that are spelled wrong. My point is, you have to pick your battle. If you have ever seen the Jimmy Kimmel live segment where celebrities read the mean things people write about them on twitter, you know sometimes you have to turn your other tweet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw Larry King at Twitter, but it might have been a run of the Mill Goblin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Phil, why don't you shut the -- off, you bald-headed big-mouthed hillbilly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Malcolm in the middle. More like mushy in the middle. Lose some weight, Heisenberg. I had a good chuckle over that one. I'm coming after you.
COOPER: Not being mean, but why does Anderson Cooper remind me of dinosaurs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: If you're going to dish it out, you got to be able to take it in life and on Twitter and on the "Ridiculist."
Thanks very much. That's it for us. We'll see you again in an hour from now. Another live edition of 360 at 10 p.m. Eastern, the Lance Armstrong interview on OWN ends at 10:00 p.m. join us for full reaction here. We'll have our full panel and they'll react to whether or not Lance Armstrong was telling the truth. "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT" starts now.
