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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Shootout and Fire at Cabin in California Mountains
Aired February 13, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Erin, thanks very much.
Good evening, everyone. Welcome to a special edition of 360. Nine days of terror, the hunt for Christopher Dorner. Tonight every moment that mattered, from the roots of his rage, the terror he inflicted, to the flames that apparently consumed his body. How authorities cornered him and more importantly why they failed to find him sooner.
You're going to hear from the man who came face to face with the combat ready with business-like Dorner as he describes what might have been a fatal encounter on a lonely road just moments before gunshots erupted and all hell broke loose.
Later in the program, the empathy that is shocking to many but not to some for the allegations of institutional racism that Dorner made against the LAPD. We'll talk to an ex-LAPD officer who's horrified by what happened but sadly not surprised.
We begin, though, with breaking news. Federal, state and local authorities have been briefing reporters on the latest. San Bernardino County Sheriff John McMahon identifying the deputy who was killed in that final shootout. He was Detective Jeremiah MacKay, 35 years old, a 15-year veteran of the department, and a father of two children, a 7-year-old daughter and 4-month-old son.
Sheriff McMahon also said that additional testing will be done to conclusively identify the burned body, which is believed to be that of Christopher Dorner. In addition, he denied any concerted effort to set that fire. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF JOHN MCMAHON, SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY, CALIFORNIA: I can tell you that it was not on purpose. We did not intentionally burn down that cabin to get Mr. Dorner out. The tear gas canisters that we used -- first off, we used a presence when we showed up. Secondly, we used a cold tear gas. Then we used -- the next tear gas was that that was pyrotechnic. It does generate a lot of heat. We introduced those canisters into the residence and a fire erupted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now Sheriff McMahon was also asked but would not answer if Dorner had been planning additional attacks in the areas. That's where things stand right now.
Let's take a look, though, here at how we got to this moment. How the final chapter began, well, 360 and Gary Tuchman has that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 12:22 p.m. on Tuesday. That's when a 911 call came in with the first real sighting of fugitive Christopher Dorner in days. Two people who were hired to clean houses in the Big Bear area run into a man who looks like Dorner. He ties them up and then takes off in their purple Nissan. One of the cleaners is able to escape. That's when she calls police.
It turns out they were tied up in a house right across the street from the San Bernardino Sheriff's command center. 12:45 p.m., Fish and Wildlife officials spot a purple car driving on California 38. They begin to pursue him.
LT. PATRICK FOY, CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE: The suspect quickly realized he had been identified.
TUCHMAN: Dorner tries to evade them, at one point crashing and taking to the woods on foot. With the officers still in pursuit, Dorner then stops a truck driven by a resident named Rick Heltebrake. Dorner pulls a gun on him but then allows him to leave unharmed with his dog.
Dorner is now behind the wheel of a silver pickup truck and gets back on the highway. He once again passes by a Fish and Wildlife official coming from the opposite direction and once again he is recognized.
The officer radios his colleagues who are on the road behind him and warn them Dorner is heading straight for them. When Dorner spots the vehicle, he rolls down his window and opens fire.
FOY: The warden who was in front -- noticed a white truck coming down, driving erratically at a pretty high rate of speed. The suspect rolled his window down, and when the second patrol truck came up with the two wardens inside, that's when he engaged in the shooting with our wardens as they were driving. He did hit the truck multiple times.
TUCHMAN: Dorner heads up Glass Road, abandons the truck and takes refuge in a cabin. San Bernardino County Sheriff's deputies arrive. And an intense firefight breaks out. A reporter for local station KCBS is also on the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This is a very explosive situation. We're standing here, we don't want to get caught in the crossfire ourselves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, you. Come here.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You. Come here.
(GUNFIRE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey. Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of here now.
TUCHMAN: This exclusive video shot by KCBS.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guys, down.
(GUNFIRE)
TUCHMAN: Two deputies are shot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Returning fire.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: They're returning fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have an officer down, officer down.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: They have an officer down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Medic ship is in the air. Medic ships in the air.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fine. Another officer down.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Another officer down.
TUCHMAN: One officer later dies at the hospital. Dorner has now claimed four lives in his rampage.
In an effort to get Dorner out, police fire tear gas into the cabin and then begin to rip the walls down one by one. Then --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, Steve, we're going to go -- we're going to go forward the plan, with the -- with the burn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Copy.
TUCHMAN: Flames and smoke begin to rise from the cabin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have fire in the front. He might come out the back.
TUCHMAN: Still unclear just how that fire started and spread. Soon afterwards --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It sounds like one shot fired from inside the residence.
TUCHMAN: What we don't know, whether Dorner shot himself or died in the flames. The fire burns for hours. Authorities thinking Dorner is still inside. And late Tuesday, they say a charred body has been found. The police have not positively confirmed this is the body of Christopher Dorner. LT. ANDY NEIMAN, LAPD MEDIA RELATIONS: There is a lot of apprehension today in any kind of celebration because this really is not a celebration. This has been a very trying time over the last couple of weeks for all those involved and all those families, friends and everybody that's been touched by this Dorner incident.
TUCHMAN: The first officer shot by Dorner was laid to rest today. The manhunt is over. There will be an investigation into how and why this man was able to elude police for nine days is just beginning.
Gary Tuchman, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Now to the man who lost his truck to Christopher Dorner but is alive to tell the story. I spoke with Rick Heltebrake a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Take me through what happened. You were coming up a side road on the highway and you saw some law enforcement in the area. What happened?
RICK HELTEBRAKE, CARJACKING VICTIM: I saw something moving in the trees and I could see that it was somebody with a gun. Now there's been a lot of people up around here with guns searching buildings and like that, so I'm not -- I'm used to seeing them. But it was an odd area for that.
And -- but on that thought process that I realized it was Christopher Dorner and I saw a vehicle crashed in the snow behind him, and he came up to the window of my truck, my driver window with his gun pointed at me and he said, "I don't want to hurt you, just get out and start walking and take your dog."
COOPER: How did he look to you?
HELTEBRAKE: He looked calm, kind of more like well-trained, you know, business-like almost. You know, he didn't have any crazy eyes or anything like that. He was dressed in all military style camouflage. Ballistic vest on with some pockets in his front. Could have had rifle magazines or smoke bombs or something, I couldn't tell.
COOPER: You said a ballistic vest. You mean like a Kevlar vest?
HELTEBRAKE: Yes, you know, a big, thick vest. The same kind I've seen on -- in the pictures I've seen. You know, military style. So he was all very calm. He was calm. I was calm. It was clear that he didn't consider me one of his targets. He just needed my vehicle and he said get out and start walking and take your dog and that's what I did. I asked if I could get her leash, and he said no, just start walking.
So I started walking up the road, and I got about maybe 20 seconds up the road, maybe 10 seconds, something like that, not very far. I heard a big burst of gunfire where my truck was. So apparently he had turned my truck around and was heading down the direction from which I had just come, and he came head on into a sheriff's unit and there was a firefight there.
When I heard the gunfire, I bailed out into the snow, which was on the side of the road, and ran into the snow a little ways until I got to a big tree, got some cover, and I took out my cell phone and I called my friend, the sheriff deputy who I had just seen recently, he's a local deputy up here that lives in the area and patrols this area. The San Bernardino County.
I called him directly. He said, Rick, what do you got? I said, Paul, he just took my truck. Excuse me. Paul, he just took my truck. So Paul confirmed the -- my truck description, and he said OK. And I hung up and I just kept running out towards the highway, just to keep getting away and I called a friend from another -- I said drop what you're doing and come pick me up, which they did in a little while, and we drove down to where the Highway Patrol had already set up a roadblock and I said just pull here, stop here, I wanted to just sit and relax where I felt safe near the -- near the roadblock and the police officers there.
COOPER: But let many ask you, how far the location where he took your truck, how far is that from the cabin where he, according to authorities, ended up?
HELTEBRAKE: It's about 3, 3 1/2 miles, something like that, down that windy road.
COOPER: And how far from where the truck ended up is that from the cabin, do you know?
HELTEBRAKE: I'm not really sure. I couldn't really tell where that truck was in the photo I saw in the news.
COOPER: OK.
HELTEBRAKE: I couldn't really get a bearing on it. I don't think it's very far.
COOPER: All right. So you -- what we're assuming is that he went on foot from the time he got out of your vehicle to that cabin -- I mean, that's the assumption.
HELTEBRAKE: Right. Yes.
COOPER: I'm just trying to figure out the distance.
HELTEBRAKE: Yes.
COOPER: And Rick, and this may be a dumb question, but -- I mean, you have a guy pointing a gun at you, obviously. You knew who it was. Did you feel in danger or did you feel like this is a transaction, he's acting rationally? HELTEBRAKE: Well, I felt endangered, you know, as far as knowing what his history was, and that I had a gun pointed at my head. However, I -- he said he didn't want to hurt me and I believed him. And he wanted me to get out of my truck and walk up the road with my dog, and that's what I did. And he needed a vehicle and he took my truck.
COOPER: How do you feel now? I mean, having had this experience with him and knowing what's happened subsequently, how do you feel?
HELTEBRAKE: I feel, you know, unfortunate. I feel like he might have had some compassion for me and my dog, you know, make sure you take your dog. I liked that. You know, I mean, I'm totally a dog guy and, you know, that was a big thing for me, you know, and one thing is, you know, I've been kind of inundated with e-mails on Facebook and stuff, and you know people calling me a hero and all that stuff, and, you know, I just want to be clear that the real heroes are the law enforcement officers that are out there doing this job every day.
We just had a funeral in Riverside today from the officer that was killed the other day. And now we're going to have another one in San Bernardino soon, because Mr. Dorner determined that I wasn't a target, but he was able to find one of his targets down the road. And now we have one less sheriff's deputy in San Bernardino County.
COOPER: Well, it's an important thing to remember. And, Rick, I appreciate you talking to us. Thank you.
HELTEBRAKE: OK, thank you.
COOPER: Well, let us know what you think about all this. Follow me on Twitter right now @Andersoncooper. I'm tweeting about this.
Next, more revelations about how the hunt for Dorner unfolded and how it ended. Also, what made Dorner tick and why some aren't surprised that he exploded. A top local reporter joins us, along with LAPD veteran John Miller as our special 360 coverage continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: We got breaking news tonight. After nine days of terror, a special 360 report continues. Authorities identifying the San Bernardino deputy killed in yesterday's shootout with fugitive Christopher Dorner. Detective Jeremiah MacKay, just 35 years old, a father of a 7-year-old daughter and a 4-month-old son.
Another lawman, a wounded deputy, remains in hospital tonight. He is expected to fully recover, authorities say, but will need additional surgery.
As for the fire that consumed the cabin, the San Bernardino sheriff said it was not deliberately set to drive out Dorner. He also said more testing will be done to confirm the charred corpse is in fact Dorner. But have cared to say as far as law enforcement is concerned, the manhunt is over.
Joining me now is one of the reporters who hasn't had much sleep in the last nine days, Joel Rubin of "The Los Angeles Times."
Joel, you guys at the "Times" have done remarkable reporting on this story, particularly just in the last 24 hours. What are the most significant developments that you've learned today?
JOEL RUBIN, REPORTER, LOS ANGELES TIMES: Well, I think just hearing the -- hearing the San Bernardino sheriff say that while they can't 100 percent say for sure that it is Dorner's body that they found, that the manhunt is over, as you mentioned, which is the -- which equates to it was him, as we talked about last night if they had any inkling, any doubt that perhaps it wasn't him, that they would not have stood down this massive manhunt.
Also the questions that have erupted over Twitter and out on the blogosphere of the fire that erupted at the -- at the cabin, and hearing the sheriff say unequivocally that they did not intentionally set that fire, whether that extinguishes -- sorry the pun, extinguishes the conspiracies out there we'll see. But we have learned, I think, and can believe with some confidence that the incendiary device that was used was not used to set the fire, but in order to deploy this agent that is meant to drive Dorner out of the cabin.
COOPER: You know, let me -- let me play that piece of audio, because it is, as you said, you know, a lot of folks on Twitter, on social media, are talking about that. It's a conversation from the police department scanner during the operation at the cabin yesterday. I just want to play a second of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a very explosive situation. We're staying here, we don't want to get caught in the crossfire ourselves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, you, come here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You. Come here.
(GUNFIRE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey. Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of here now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down.
(GUNFIRE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: This is clearly the wrong tape. On the audio, can you explain, Joel, what people say they have heard and what you think it means?
RUBIN: Sure. I've reviewed the audio that's circulating around myself. And while not verbatim, there's talk amongst the -- it comes at the time when the officers who were involved in dismantling the cabin wall by wall, they were using a demolition vehicle, in which they could sort of take the walls down one by one so that they knew what they were -- what they were dealing with inside.
In the process of doing that, there's a lot of radio chatter between the officers, and at one point, there's talk of deploying the burners, which has led a lot of people to conclude that it was an intentional ignition of fire. Shortly after the talk of the burners, there is a report by one of the officers of a fire breaking out and then quickly engulfing the cabin.
Today at the press conference, the sheriff was asked about that term burners and what they were. And he said that that is a colloquial term for a type of tear gas that they deployed, which does have a heating agent involved. It's an elevated type of tear gas that the heating agent I've been told by members of the LAPD SWAT who are familiar with it, the heating agent is not used to set a fire, but to deploy the tear gas in a more potent way, but it can cause fires. And that seems to be what happened.
COOPER: The other thing that's raised a lot of questions, Joel, is, you know, as last time there seemed to be discrepancies between what the LAPD and the sheriff's department in San Bernardino were saying. Have the agencies cleared up their stories? I mean, does it make sense to you now? Do you know what was going on last night?
RUBIN: No, I'm not sure we'll ever get a clear answer. But I think, you know, we can speculate that it was just a very chaotic situation, and I think there was a lot of -- obviously a lot of frayed nerves and whenever you get several agencies involved covering a huge territory and especially covering a story that everybody, the world is paying attention to, you're going to get a lot of attention between the agencies, I think, and this is just me speculating, that the LAPD didn't want to get out ahead of the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department.
It was their operation, and perhaps the San Bernardino was putting some pressure on LAPD to back off and then these reports came out and some of them attributed the -- to the LAPD saying that a body had been found.
I think there was probably just a lot of -- a lot of frayed nerves going on and everybody just wanted to back off. And so the LAPD took this somewhat confusing extraordinary stance in which they unequivocally denied any reports that a body had been found. And at the time, that may have been true. We had sources telling us that a body had been found. It may have been that they were reporting their conclusion that the body was inside because of their confidence that they had seen Dorner inside. We're still trying to figure it all out.
COOPER: All right. Joel Rubin, appreciate it and I know it's been an incredibly busy couple of days. Appreciate you taking the time to talk to us.
Joining me now is John Miller who worked in counterterrorism and criminal intelligence for the LAPD. Currently, of course, he's a senior correspondent at "CBS This Morning."
What have you learned in the last 24 hours or so that you find most interesting?
JOHN MILLER, FORMER LAPD COUNTERTERRORISM CHIEF: A number of things. Number one, the fact that, you know, you say how do you gauge their confidence level that that's Dorner inside? I think one critical gauge is last night, Andy Smith, the LAPD commander, said we're not going to not remove any of the protective details on the people on this hit list until we're absolutely sure that that's him in there --
COOPER: More than 50 plus people we believe.
MILLER: So I mean that's 58 families and members of the department who were under guard. And that was more than 400 officers. These is the metro division.
COOPER: Wow.
MILLER: These are the gangs divisions, the narcotics divisions from all of the areas of the LAPD had been mobilized to a plainclothes surveillance portion, as well as a high profile uniform portion. And frankly -- and this is something we haven't gotten into while it was going on, but I think we can say it now is that the threat was so high and some of the locations were so difficult to protect that entire families, husbands, wives and children were moved into police stations.
COOPER: They're actually living in police stations?
MILLER: That's right. And the police station themselves have what they call station defense posture, which is the kind of posture they would put out during disorder or a riot or something where the station is defended by an armed group on the perimeter. So this was fairly unlike anything we have seen before. So when you saw those 400 officers go to work and some of those families go home, you saw kind of a great exhaling today in Los Angeles.
COOPER: And is it -- is it clearer to you how long -- I mean, what I still don't understand is -- and we may not know this, and you may not know this, how long Dorner was in that other cabin where he allegedly took two people hostage? Was it -- was that the only cabin he had been staying in? And why wasn't he found if there were door- to-door searches?
MILLER: OK. So that is not even clear to them yet. But that was treated as a crime scene, A, because a crime occurred there. But, B, because they also want to know that. So they're going to be looking forensically and evidence wise to see what's in there, what are things in there, you know, are date stamped where they can kind of get a time for how long he was in there. It could have been he was in there the whole time. It could have been that he was -- he was in there a number of hours before.
The idea that it looked out on to the ranger station which for a time served as the command post and that he would have had a view of operations actually harkens to something he said in his manifesto, which was incident command posts will be a target rich environment. And here he is holed up in an apartment that almost has a view directly on the command post on the other side of the road with a Barrett automatic sniper rifle with .50 caliber armor-piercing bullets.
You have to ask yourself two questions. One, when his truck broke down and he took off with the weapons and gear he could carry, was that the first place he could find to get into? Or two, did he choose it because it would give him an observation post and potentially a target?
COOPER: Are you aware how far the broken down truck was from that location?
MILLER: I haven't been there but I was told it's not that far away. So this might have been the first place he encountered, or he might have hid and found his way back to it.
About the search, because you asked about that, they would check houses and if there was any forced entry apparent, they would go in and check that house to determine, did that have anything to do with him, was he still there? If there were houses that were unlocked, they would check those. But where there was no sign of forced entry, generally that was a sign to them that this was intact. And in general there were some exceptions. They didn't make a forced entry to places that were already locked.
So you could consider a scenario where he would have found an unlocked place or found a hidden key, made an entry and locked it behind him. And that's the kind of building that, given the amount they had to deal with, 660 cabins and a large number of condos and other things, that they might not have ever gotten to.
COOPER: We found the correct audio referencing a kind of lighting up the house. I want to play that and have you talk about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to go -- we're going to go forward with the plan with the -- with the burn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Copy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to open up all the lanes and just have barricades up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seven active burners deployed and we have a fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Copy, seven burner deployed and we have a fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guys, be ready on the number four side. We have fire in the front. He might come out the back. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So some people who listened to that, a lot of folks on Twitter right now who (INAUDIBLE) said that is evidence they believe that the police were wanting to light the house up on fire, maybe to smoke him out or to kill him inside.
MILLER: So from a tactical standpoint, and I think when you listen to that audio, you have to have those concerns and those questions, whether that's terminology or whether that's intent. And those questions will all be asked. I mean, that's a part of this process here. But from a tactical standpoint, you've got cold gas and you've got hot gas. They deployed both in these cases.
COOPER: Tear gas?
MILLER: Right. The difference between the cold gas and hot is the hot gas, as you indicated a couple of minutes ago, burns up at a higher temperature. It's more intense and it will drive a suspect out sooner and faster. That's the upside of it tactically. The risk factor tactically is, it doesn't always catch fire. It does burn -- it does burn the gas out of the -- out of the -- it's called a tactical pocket grenade.
It does burn the gas out. And the gas is stronger. But it also has a higher risk of fire depending, depending on how it's deployed, depending on what it hits going in, whether it gets tied up in the curtains or lands on a piece of fabric, or rolls across the floor. Depending on those circumstances, it has a higher sense of fire than cold gas.
COOPER: There are -- I mean, you know the suspicion of law enforcement in this, that they were angry that, you know, fellow officers have been killed. A San Bernardino detective was killed on that very day just shortly before that. So that -- you know, the conspiracy theory, the suspicion is that in anger they would want to kill him. Do you think there is evidence of that, or do you think they would have wanted to get him out alive?
MILLER: I think that if you look at it from -- I mean, no one can know the answer to that, unless we get into their minds. But I think if you look at it from purely a tactical sense, they deployed the regular tools that they would in a rare circumstance like this where you had a heavily armed man who was known to have already killed a number of people and who by the fact that he was firing on you with a .50 caliber armor-piercing rounds intended to kill more people.
So this is where you're going to use the available tactical tools you have to matter how harsh they may be to get him out of there. Now if those devices started to fire, we also have to consider there was nothing keeping him in that residence. He could have come out the backdoor with his hands up. He could have waved a white flag. He determined to stay in there. He apparently determined as it seems from the audio we've heard to probably shoot himself and take his own life. But in these things, there is a -- there's a modicum of control that the perpetrator has, and he exercised that.
COOPER: John Miller, always good to have you.
John, thanks.
MILLER: Good to be here.
COOPER: There's a lot more to talk about, including Christopher Dorner's allegations against the LAPD. Just ahead, the burned out cabin where Dorner presumably died remains an active crime scene, of course. The family that owns the property, now part of the drama they never expected. Today they tried to check out the damage for themselves. We'll show you how that went. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back. This definitely get your attention, Christopher Dorner is a folk hero to some on social media. There's praise, no shortage of conspiracy theories about what went down. A closer look at that ahead on "360."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Hollywood could have scripted a more dramatic end game for the manhunt for Christopher Dorner. Snowy mountain backdrop, hostages, carjacking, shootout, the fugitive holed up in a cabin, surrounded, outnumbered, the cabin bursting into flames.
Millions of course watched it unfold live on television including the cabin's owner, Kyle Martin, the son of the owner. I was on the phone with Kyle as he watched. Here's what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Kyle, from the pictures that you're seeing, does it seem as if the entire cabin is pretty much on fire?
KYLE MARTIN, CABIN OWNER (via telephone): Yes, from what I can see right here, it actually looks like maybe the barn is too, there's a barn about 10 feet away from it. I feel bad for the people who have lost loved ones and what not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: An important point certainly, but you can imagine how anxious Kyle and his family is to see what if anything is left of their cabin. Randi Kaye spent the day with him trying to get up that mountain.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Less than 12 hours after he watched his family's cabin burn to the ground, Kyle Martin, is determined to see what's left. Before making the two-hour drive up here to the Big Bear Mountain area, Kyle checked online to see if Highway 38 was open. It was at Highway 38 and Glass Road where the shootout took place, between the suspect and the Fish and Game officers.
MARTIN: I do know it's closed. I do know it's open to residents. I think it's still a homicide scene, so we'll try our luck.
KAYE: When the standoff started Tuesday, Kyle's sister texted him to tell him SWAT teams were on their road at their cabin. She had recognized the tennis courts.
(on camera): What did you think when you saw your cabin, your cabin burning on live TV?
MARTIN: It's kind of funny because when we first heard it, I was in the car and listening to the radio, and then it was kind of surreal. And then when we finally got home, I turned on the TV just to see it burning, yes, it kind of hit home, memories. After about I would say 5 minutes, it kind of sunk in and just looking at it, I'm going through my head. The nation is watching our cabin burn.
KAYE (voice-over): Kyle's family has had the cabin since 2004. They rented it out often. It was their family business. For nearly a week, Kyle had been watching the manhunt play out on TV. He admits the thought crossed his mind, what if Christopher Dorner ended up at his cabin?
MARTIN: I even jokingly around, not ever thinking he would go there, say if anything, that would be a good place for someone to hold up if they wanted to.
KAYE (on camera): Because you knew it was empty.
MARTIN: It was empty and secluded and rarely do you get visitors.
KAYE: This was not the first time police had been to Kyle's cabin. In fact, they had just been there two days before the fire. The scary thing is, at that time, Kyle's aunts were staying at the cabin. So if this had gone down then, Kyle's family might have been harmed.
(voice-over): As we made our way down Highway 38 toward Glass Road, Kyle's luck runs out. Road closed.
MARTIN: It's closed. They're not going to let us through. We can turn around up here.
KAYE (on camera): You want to give it a shot?
MARTIN: Yes. I was wondering if residents can get through?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With proper I.D. Where are you going to?
MARTIN: It's the main house, the cabin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What street?
MARTIN: At 7 Oaks Road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got to go down Glass Road? Nope, not there.
MARTIN: Not even if I'm the owner of the house?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're not letting anybody in.
KAYE (voice-over): The deputy directed Kyle to the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department, who tells him the same thing. His cabin is still an active crime scene and he has to wait.
(on camera): He still didn't go for it?
MARTIN: No.
KAYE: Are you frustrated?
MARTIN: No. Because I understand what they are doing, you know, I don't want to get in their way.
KAYE (voice-over): Kyle is trying to have a good attitude about this, but his family has been through a lot. His father died suddenly last year, and his grandfather died last week. So this is hard to handle. He feels for those who have lost loved ones during this manhunt.
MARTIN: Cabins can be rebuilt, but you know, the lives that this guy took and injured for that matter, you know, my condolences out to them. They are not far worse about than I am and my family.
KAYE: Randi Kaye, CNN, Big Bear Mountain.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: That is certainly true. Believe it or not, Christopher Dorner has what you might even call fans online. There's a fair amount of support and empathy being expressed on social media. Psychologically speaking what's behind showing support for a killer? We'll look into that next.
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COOPER: Just want to recap our breaking news tonight. Authorities in San Bernardino County identifying the deputy killed in Christopher Dorner's final shootout. He was Detective Jeremiah Mackay, just 35 years old, the father of a 7-year-old daughter and a 4-month-old son.
As we told you, another law man, a wounded deputy remains in the hospital tonight. Authorities say he is expected to make a full recovery though he may need more surgeries.
Meantime, you might be surprised to know there's been a show of support for Christopher Dorner on social media. As we mentioned, there are conspiracy theories, empathy by some for his manifesto and his grievances against the LAPD.
In the world of Twitter and Facebook, it seems really anyone can get a fan base and Dorner is no exception. Dan Simon reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": Sheriff McMahon has asked that all of the helicopters pull back or leave the area of the barricaded suspect --
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As police asked news helicopters to back off and as the cabin went off in flames, social media also lit up with users like this one crying conspiracy. So U.S. authorities have apparently burnt someone to death in a cabin and let it burn through the basement so nobody is left.
Another user referring to reports that Dorner's I.D. was found. Come on, people, how in the world is Dorner's body burned beyond recognition, but they found his license he just so happened to be carrying?
Another pervasive theory, I think Dorner probably killed someone and left their body in that fire while he escaped. Others blasted the police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to go forward with the plan with the burn.
SIMON: Blaming them for the cabin fire. LAPD was prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner yesterday. They burned him alive. Apparently, burning people alive is now considered appropriate behavior for the police. From the very beginning, Dorner had found plenty of sympathizers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to start off by saying that I perfectly support 100 percent what Chris Dorner is doing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I read this manifesto and I basically -- I believe him.
SIMON: On Facebook, more than 18,000 likes for a page titled "We Stand with Christopher Dorner." On Instagram, a rapper spoke for many when he said this about Dorner's rampage. "This was a necessary evil. God bless you, sir."
KAREN NORTH, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA: People like anti-heroes and we have a history of voting for people like Bonnie and Clyde and Butch Cassidy.
SIMON: USC Professor Karen North studies the intersection of psychology and social media.
NORTH: One of the things that social media has allowed us to do is to join conversations and not be as accountable for our opinions.
SIMON: In other words, people may express things online they wouldn't necessarily say to their friends in public. Others just like to be provocative. Still, this user poses a question many today are asking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is America showing so much support for him?
SIMON: Dan Simon, CNN, San Francisco.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: As Dorner's rage at the LAPD that led to the path of death and destruction that played out over nine days. Brian Bentley is a former LAPD officer who says he understands Dorner's frustration. He was on the force for ten years in the '90s and has been outspoken for what he calls rampant racism at the LAPD.
He says he was fired for writing a book, detailing what he said was misconduct, racism that he witnessed with the LAPD. Brian Bentley joins me now. Brian, thanks for being with us.
You were on the LAPD for ten years in the 1990s when the department was dealing with a number of race-related scandals. I know you don't condone in any way what Dorner did, but you say you understand some of his anger. How so?
BRIAN BENTLEY, FORMER LAPD OFFICER: Well, of course, I understand, because as a police officer, I learned the hard way. There isn't a place to express your opinion if you're a whistleblower. You're automatically become an outcast. You automatically are harassed by supervision.
There is nowhere to turn. You can't go to attorneys, because if you're fired you don't have the money. If you don't have the money, you don't have the money to seek counseling to get help. So you feel like there's nowhere to turn.
The purpose of my book was because I felt there wasn't an outlet for me to express what I was dealing with. I turned to writing as opposed to doing what he did. Some of the things I wrote about, I had never -- I hadn't seen them since I wrote about it until Dorner expressed his feelings in his manifesto.
COOPER: Do you believe the LAPD has changed, though, because minority recruitment is up significantly. They have made huge efforts of outrage to the community in L.A. Do you think there's been significant change?
BENTLEY: I know there has not been change. There has not been a significant change. It's different from when I came up. My training officer looked at me in my eye the first day and told me you're black, you don't belong on this job.
My job is not to train you. It's to get you fired because you slipped through the cracks. That opinion is still there. That view of the department still runs -- it runs through that department and there's lots of proof to that claim. COOPER: There is a process in place. Dorner in his so-called manifesto talked about violating the blue call of silence when he reported his partner for unnecessary kicks to a handcuffed suspect. Those who believe Dorner should have gone through the system say there's a system in place. He went through that system and his charges were proved baseless so that you say?
BENTLEY: Well, of course, there's a system. But that system is designed to silence officers. You have to look at the bigger picture which he didn't see, which I was schooled on as a rookie, is that when you tell on a police officer, you're not only going against your brotherhood, you're fighting the whole city of Los Angeles.
You are -- you are opening the department up for a lawsuit. So you're fighting the city of L.A. and all of its resources. You know, lawsuits are a big issue with the police department, and they pay out more money than any other entity in the city of Los Angeles.
COOPER: The LAPD, the chief said he's going to reopen the case that got Dorner fired. Does that give you some hope?
BENTLEY: Well, no. I go by his first statement, and it was that will not happen and I firmly believe that he feels that. It's not going to happen. It can't happen. Because if he opens that case, I personally know 50 officers who want their cases reviewed also, that just opens up a Pandora's Box.
COOPER: Brian Bentley, I appreciate you being on in the program tonight. I want to back in with our John Miller who is a former top member of the LAPD, familiar with department strengths and shortcomings. He is CBS News now. What do you make of what Brian has said? Is there a process in place? Does it work?
JOHN MILLER, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, CBS "THIS MORNING": I mean, first of all, I think we've got to separate a couple of things, which is, you know, Brian was in the department in the 1980s and '90s. This is 20 some odd years ago. We talked about the '91 report after the riots that talked about racial divisions and problems in the LAPD. That's 20 something years ago. A lot has happened since then so let's baseline this.
Are there racists in the LAPD? Sure there are, only because there are racists in CNN and CBS. I mean, somewhere in the basement of this building there is someone who is raise by their parents to think that way. But that's because police departments, like any other outfit, they don't recruit from the planet perfect.
They recruit from the human race. So you have to build that factor in and have systems to check that and to catch that. Now let's talk about progress. You know, when John Mack, the president of the Urban League in Los Angeles, became the head of the Los Angeles Police Commission, that was a big step forward.
Connie Rice, the top civil rights lawyer in Los Angeles, has said repeatedly in public and in her book she's seen a sea change in relations within the LAPD and within -- between the LAPD and the African-American community.
You look at Los Angeles. It's got roughly 11 percent African- American population. If you look at the command staff of the LAPD, 22 percent of their captains and above are African-American.
The three-star chief of operations, my good personal friend, and a suburb cop is Earl Passinger, an African-American who grew up in South Central L.A. and a commander there for many years.
But if you want to get micro instead of macro, look at this case. There were two captains who were the judges in the board of rights that Christopher Dorner says was so unfair, and racially prejudiced.
One of them he may or may not have been aware is married to an African-American woman with whom he has several children and is a commander in South Los Angeles where he is beloved and revered in the community. It's not perfect. No place will be, but I think the progress has been marked and for the LAPD dramatic.
COOPER: John Miller, appreciate you being with us. Thank you very much.
A lot more ahead, still ahead, the first hand reports we're hearing from that disabled Carnival cruise ship are getting grimmer. Can you imagine being with thousands of other people stuck on a vessel with little electricity, running out of food and few bathrooms? We'll tell you when the nightmare may end for more than 4,000 passengers and crew on board. We'll be right back.
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COOPER: Let's get you caught up on some of the other stories we're following. Isha is here with the "360 Bulletin" -- Isha.
ISHA SESAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, supplies are heading to a stranded Carnival cruise ship with more than 4,000 people on board. Passengers say they've been waiting in line for food for hours and there are few working bathrooms after an engine room fire left the ship paralyzed in the Gulf of Mexico Sunday. The ship is being towed to Mobile, Alabama, and is expected to arrive tomorrow afternoon.
Today, Pope Benedict made his first public appearance since announcing that he will resign at the end of the month. During his regular weekly appearance at the Vatican, the pope said he doesn't have the strength to carry on as head of the church. Later he celebrated Ash Wednesday mass at St. Peter's Basilica.
An Italian magazine is defending publishing photos on the pregnant Duchess of Cambridge in a bikini saying she and Prince William were on a public beach. A palace representative criticized the photos saying they violate the couples right to privacy.
And Anderson, we're getting new images of the Alabama boy who was held hostage in an underground bunker for a week. They met today with the governor of Alabama and Anderson, they also spoke with Dr. Phil. We're getting a few more details on how he's doing after that traumatic experience and he's having a rough time, unable to sleep and his mom says he's crying out, as well.
COOPER: I can't imagine what it's like for that little boy. Isha, thanks very much. We'll be right back.
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COOPER: That's it for us. We'll see you again one hour from now another edition of 360 at 10 p.m. Eastern. "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT" starts now. Filling in for Piers is my friend, Robin Meade.
