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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
George Zimmerman Jury Set; Immigration Fight Rages; Was Man Sentenced to Death for Being Black?; Operation Helps Deaf Boy, 3, to Hear; Tough, Competitive World of Internships
Aired June 20, 2013 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. It's 10:00 here on the East Coast.
And tonight: George Zimmerman learns who will be learning his fate. Who is on the jury is raising a lot of eyebrows tonight. He says he doesn't have a problem with it. The question is, should the court? We will talk about that.
And, later, the best story you will see all day, no doubt about it. A 3-year-old came to hear his very first words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Daddy loves you. Daddy loves you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: He's been unable to hear his entire life, a remarkable moment caught on tape. We tell you about the revolutionary new device that made his smile, that smile possible.
We begin, though, tonight "Keeping Them Honest" with the oldest organization of the so-called ex-gay movement shutting its doors and apologizing, saying their world view has been -- quote -- "nearly honoring towards our fellow human beings or biblical."
The organization was called Exodus International for more than three decades now. In chapters across the country, they promoted what is often called reparative therapy. Based on interpretations of Christian teachings, they told people they could change their sexual orientation.
Exodus began in the mid-1970s, and even though one of its founding members renounced the organization at the end of that decade, admitting that he wasn't ex-gay at all, but was, in fact, still gay, Exodus has continued to claim that it could help people get over their same-sex attractions.
Alan Chambers was most the recent head of Exodus International and he personally is now apologizing to gay people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALAN CHAMBERS, FORMER PRESIDENT, EXODUS INTERNATIONAL: I'm sorry for the pain and hurt that many of you have experienced. I'm sorry that some of you spent years working through shame and guilt you felt when your attractions didn't change.
I'm sorry that we promoted sexual orientation change efforts and reparative theories about sexual orientation that stigmatized parents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That's Alan Chambers on the documentary hosted by Lisa Ling, who joins us shortly tonight.
In a long statement on the Exodus International Web site titled "I'm Sorry," he elaborates, saying -- quote -- "I'm profoundly sorry that many have walked away from their faith and that some have chosen to end their lives."
Now, yesterday, Exodus International officially closed up shop. As I said, we are going to talk with Lisa Ling in a moment and we will talk with Alan Chambers tomorrow on this program.
But, first, we want to show you what Exodus has been telling people for decades now. Here is a report our Gary Tuchman filed back before Exodus shuts its doors, back when they were still saying reparative therapy could work.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Men, women, looking for a way to exercise homosexuality here at a gathering in Phoenix called Love One Out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There will be people there that are just, you know, searching for more information.
TUCHMAN: Christian ministries offer referrals to various treatment programs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have a good day now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will. I am. Thank you.
TUCHMAN: With more than 120 local branches in North America, Exodus International calls itself the world's largest ex-gay referral service. Exodus president Alan Chambers says his own journey from homosexuality to heterosexuality followed a long and difficult path. How did you do it?
CHAMBERS: Well, it's not like a light switch. I didn't flip it on and flip it off. It was years of work.
TUCHMAN: Not everyone is at the same result.
(on camera): Shawn, when did you realize you were gay?
SHAWN O'DONNELL, UNDERWENT PROGRAM: At the age of 6, I realized I was different from other boys. And it wasn't until later on that I associated the word gay with that. I was 10.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Growing up gay in Elgin, Illinois, wasn't easy for Sean O'Donnell. His Catholic parents were loving, but the kids at school were merciless.
O'DONNELL: I had a very low self-esteem. Hated myself.
TUCHMAN: It got worse when at age 10, Shawn was born again and joined an evangelical church.
(on camera): How important was religion in your life at that time?
O'DONNELL: Extremely important. It was at the top of my list. I mean, I went to church four or five times a week. I mean, I was always at church. I was so involved. In mission trips, bible studies, prayer groups.
TUCHMAN: And if you're gay, you believe you're going to hell?
O'DONNELL: Right.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): It was too much for the boy. He started cutting himself. He attempted suicide. And finally at 18, he came out to his pastor.
(on camera): Did you feel like he was angry at you?
O'DONNELL: No, no. He was very compassionate with the understanding that I needed help.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Shawn's pastor referred him to therapy at a local ex-gay organization.
O'DONNELL: I thought I would go a couple of days without being attracted to other men, but then you know, I would have a sexual slip- up. So then I thought, you know, I'm failing again.
TUCHMAN: Five years into therapy, Shawn hit another low point and again tried to kill himself. Desperate, he moved to California and joined a live-in program for gay men trying to become straight.
O'DONNELL: Very controlling environment. We went to work. We -- after we got home, we had dinner together. We didn't go places alone other than to work and back. We were always in groups of two or three. Sundays we went to church together. And we had curfews.
TUCHMAN: Shawn says he was totally committed to the program.
O'DONNELL: My first year into it, I just - I felt great. I felt - I graduated through the first year because we had like a graduation ceremony. And I thought oh, you know, I'm going to make it. You know? This is all what I have needed. You know, and then I had a slip with one of the guys in the house.
TUCHMAN: The next day, Shawn drove into San Francisco and had a one- night stand with a man. O'DONNELL: You know what? That was it. You know, I was done. I had given it the good old college try. And I decided that I was going to come out again.
TUCHMAN (on camera): This is kind of blunt, but I'm curious. Do you like girls now?
CHAMBERS: I love my wife. I'm attracted to my wife. We've been married for nine years.
TUCHMAN: Are any feelings towards men still within you? Do you feel you could come out again in some way?
CHAMBERS: Again, I don't think that I will be as though I never was. You know, certainly I'm human. I could be tempted by a homosexual thought. I could find myself...
TUCHMAN: That doesn't go away?
CHAMBERS: It hasn't gone away 100 percent with me.
TUCHMAN: Do you think programs like Exodus can work for some people?
O'DONNELL: No.
TUCHMAN: Shawn is back in Elgin, Illinois, now, working as a high school science teacher. He has been living as an openly gay man for six years.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Elgin, Illinois.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, joining me now is Lisa Ling, who spoke with Alan Chambers for "Our America" special on the OWN Network.
It's really -- first of all, it's great to have you back on the program.
LISA LING, "OUR AMERICA": Thank you.
COOPER: But did it surprise you Alan Chambers has now apologized, that they have shut its doors?
LING: It did surprise me when he said that he wanted to apologize to all gay people and all people who have harmed by Exodus because it was essentially acknowledging that thousands of people have been -- have had their severely damaged by Exodus, which begged the question, well, then what now?
Last year, they stopped conducting reparative therapy, and this year he wants to apologize to people they have harmed. So, what now? And we just witnessed what now last night.
COOPER: But what does it actually mean? He still -- he's not saying being gay -- is he saying being gay is OK? LING: So, although Alan won't directly say it, he still believes that homosexuality is a sin.
He just doesn't want to be part of an organization that tries to convert people or tries to cure people of homosexuality because in fact says it's not possible. He himself, as Gary Tuchman's report indicated, still says that he has same-sex attraction, as does 99.9 percent of the people who have gone through their program.
COOPER: Well, that's what interesting. I have interviewed a number of people who have said they are ex-gay or call themselves ex-gay.
And the more you talk to them, they will acknowledge that they still have the attractions, as you just said Alan does, that they still have the thoughts. They are just forcing themselves or trying to train themselves not to act. They're repressing.
LING: That's right. That's right.
COOPER: They're trying to not act on it.
LING: And to an extent, that's how Alan is living now.
I firmly believe that he has a beautiful marriage with his wife, Leslie, and their children. But he says that he continues to have same-sex attraction.
COOPER: And I have done a lot of these interviews and I have -- clearly, I'm gay, but I don't try to force my opinion on -- you know, if somebody wants to -- you know, thinks they are unhappy being gay and wants to change, if it works for them or doesn't.
LING: Right.
COOPER: But it seems like there are a lot of people -- and in your documentary, we see a lot of people who say they have been harmed by this kind of therapy.
I want to show another clip from your report, "God and Gays." There is a guy name Sean, who is a so-called ex-gay survivor who has come out, I guess tried to change, has not, and he's talking to Alan about how much damage he feels Exodus has done.
LING: All the people had tried to change.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Had all tried to change.
LING: Exactly.
COOPER: So let's hear from him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN, FORMER EXODUS PARTICIPANT: When I left Exodus, I had joined the military and I was just at my end.
I didn't realize I was going into such a deep pit of despair and anger. And I woke up one day. My friend had gone to work and he had a loaded gun in his closet. And I was so happy about dying, it felt like I was opening a Christmas present. That's honestly how I felt.
And I went over to the closet, and I stood there, and I prayed that prayer that I had prayed probably a million times. And I said, God, why will you not change me? And I can't describe it, but something from the outside, Alan, told me not to take my life. And I said, God, why won't you change me? And it said to me, because there is nothing that I need to change about you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The idea of suicidal thoughts, and people that actually even attempted suicide multiple times, that's something you have heard a lot from people who have gone through Exodus.
LING: Absolutely.
I don't think the numbers are quantifiable, how many people have attempted suicide who have gone through these programs. But so many of the people that I encountered said that they had entertained suicidal thoughts because when you're told from a young age that you are a sinner for doing nothing but having thoughts -- same-sex attraction and you go through these programs and you try and you try and you can't change, what is your purpose?
What is -- what are you here for? And so a lot of the people that I have encountered have said that they have definitely thought about suicide.
COOPER: Alan Chambers spoke to, I guess it was -- I guess it was last night to a grouping from Exodus international.
LING: The annual conference is going on right now and he announced that Exodus was going to be shutting down last night.
COOPER: Right now, wow. So let's play some of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHAMBERS: I believe we have come to a time in the church when it's time to lay our weapons down. We fought the culture, and we have lost.
But I think we have lost for a good reason, because it's time for peace. We are the culture. Culture doesn't exist without people. God doesn't want us to fight people anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And, again, I'm not clear on exactly where he goes now, where the organization goes now.
LING: Right.
COOPER: It's officially shutting his doors, but it sounds like he feels they are shutting because they lost a culture war.
LING: Well, he does say that we lost the culture war. And when you think about it, gay rights, marriage equality, these issues are the civil rights issues of our generation.
The Supreme Court is going to decide on DOMA and Proposition 8 in California. And I think that Anderson and the board -- sorry -- Alan and the board of Exodus started to think, well, what side do we want to be on, on this civil rights issue?
COOPER: It's interesting that in one of his statements, he was saying that he feels that their world view -- world view has not been fair to our fellow human beings, to quote him, and also has not been biblical, that it sounds like he wants some sort of an organization that is more welcoming, whatever that may mean.
LING: So Alan -- I don't know that they can even define what the next chapter is going to be for them, but he has mentioned to me that there is a place or there are people who are struggling, who may want to remain celibate or may want to work on their relationships with their spouses, even though they still have same-sex attraction, but moving forward, they would like to have an organization that is much more conclusive that anyone can come to, he said.
COOPER: Right. Well, I look forward to speaking to him on the program last -- tomorrow, tomorrow night.
Lisa, thanks very much. I look forward to the documentary.
LING: Thanks.
COOPER: Thanks.
As I mentioned, Alan Chambers has agreed to come on the program. Look forward to that conversation. We hope you will join us tomorrow night for that.
Let us know what you think. You can follow me on Twitter @AndersonCooper. I will be tweeting about this right now.
Just ahead, after nine days of questioning, an all-female jury has been chosen to decide George Zimmerman's fate. The murder defendant told the judge that he is fine with the jury selection, but it has got a lot of people talking tonight.
Also ahead, it's not just a battle over this fence, but how the fight for and against immigration reform may reshape politics for years to come.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: In "Crime & Punishment" tonight: The jury has been selected in the George Zimmerman trial.
And the makeup of that jury caught a lot of people by surprise. Five jurors are white. One is black or Hispanic and all are women. Zimmerman told the judge that he's fine with the makeup. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the jurors that I announced, were you able to hear the six members of the jury and the four alternates?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, DEFENDANT: Yes, Your Honor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And is this jury panel acceptable to you, sir?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, Your Honor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now, under Florida law, all criminal cases except capital offenses are decided by juries of just six people, not 12.
Zimmerman of course is charged with second-degree murder in the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. He says he shot the teenager in self-defense, but prosecutors accuse him of unjustly profiling and killing Martin.
In a statement, Martin's family said they expect the jury to do their duty and to be fair and impartial.
Now, opening arguments are set to begin on Monday.
Senior legal correspondent Jean Casarez joins me now.
So, what do we know about these six women?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know quite a bit because there was individual questioning.
First of all, Anderson, five out of the six are mothers. Two of them have just come into the area in recent months from living out of state. What is interesting, one juror used to have a concealed weapons permit for a gun. A female did. And she doesn't have it anymore because she doesn't carry her gun anymore. Her husband still has a concealed weapons permit.
Quite a few of the jurors do come from gun families. B-29, who is the juror from Chicago, she has been arrested. So, a lot of diversity and I think a lot of life experiences, but we were all surprised when it was a total female jury.
COOPER: Clearly, they selected these people, so the prosecution and defense both seem happy with the jury they got, correct?
CASAREZ: They did. And the way they did it was in order of that individual questioning. That's how they went.
And here is what is very fascinating. There was an African-American male who should have been on the jury, but the prosecution exercised a peremptory strike, which can be for whatever reason. The defense didn't challenge it, so he was not on the jury. But when then when the prosecution exercised four peremptory strikes for white females, the defense actually exercised the constitutional challenge, saying, you're trying to discriminate based on gender, white women.
And do you know that the defense got two of those jurors back on the final jury? One had said innocent people go to prison, which favors the defense. Another had said that her daughter said, what is a young kid out like that out buying candy at that time of night, got her back on the jury, and, remember, it was 7:00 in the evening, not real late.
COOPER: The judge is going to rule or expected to rule tomorrow on whether an expert can actually testify on a crucial piece of evidence about who is screaming on the 911 tape. Tell us about it.
CASAREZ: This is probably the most important piece of evidence in this trial, because you hear a voice, and it's been described as a death cry, somebody believing they are going to die.
Prosecutors want to put expert testimony on to say -- they can't conclusively say, but they believe based on the science that it is Trayvon Martin. Defense put on really renowned experts saying there is no credibility in these experts and the science at all. The voice is so far away, the instruments, spectrograph and things that they are using are outdated, and there is just no way to tell with any type of scientific certainty who was crying out.
COOPER: Yes. I think I interviewed Trayvon Martin's mother and she said she was pretty sure that was her son's voice.
CASAREZ: That's right.
COOPER: But, again, we will see what the experts say.
Jean Casarez, appreciate the update.
Let's dig deeper now with Mark Geragos, criminal defense attorney and author of "Mistrial." Also joining me is Marcia Clark, former Los Angeles deputy district attorney and author of "Killer Ambition."
So, Marcia, you say you can see why both sides might want a jury made up entirely of women. Why is that from both the defense and the prosecution standpoint?
MARCIA CLARK, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, Anderson, there is something in it for both sides when women are involved.
From the prosecution side, women, especially mothers, and five of the six are mothers, are going to -- the hope is that they will feel somewhat invested in Trayvon Martin as someone who could have been their son out there that night. Conversely, from the defense point of view, they like the idea of women, especially women who have had guns in their lives and their family, because women are more likely to identify with the fear in a neighborhood that's been victimized by burglaries frequently and therefore feel almost like George Zimmerman is kind of a protector of theirs, and so appreciate what he was trying to do.
So women actually have something to give for both sides of this lawsuit. At the end of the day, I'm not surprised to see that it was an all-female jury.
COOPER: Mark, what do you think? Because I have heard some people say that because most of these women, five out of the six, are moms, they might be more sympathetic to Trayvon Martin.
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
And if they say that, they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. This could not be a better defense jury if you had dreamed of it. The fact that they did -- when Jean did that package about the constitutional, that's called a Wheeler motion. We call it a Wheeler motion, but it's a Batson motion.
And basically they got put back on two jurors that are a prosecution's worst nightmare. Remember, the prosecution has to get a unanimous verdict in this case or a unanimous jury. The defense only has to have one holdout.
At this point, I think the prosecution would be holding on for dear life to try and get one person to vote for them. I think that more importantly than the gender here is the race composition, and I think this is a grand slam home run for the defense.
COOPER: Mark, you also say that jury selection is the most important part of a trial. Do you really believe that?
GERAGOS: Absolutely.
I have tried hundreds of cases, and I can tell you, based on all of those cases, the cases were won or lost 99.9 percent of the time in jury selection. That's why this case, other than Mark O'Mara falling and tripping and knocking himself out, this is his to lose at this point.
COOPER: Marcia, Mark brought up the racial makeup of the jury. It's relatively homogeneous. Does it play one way or the other? Does that matter?
CLARK: Of course it always matters, especially in a case like this, where race is squarely on the table.
In this case, the prosecution's theory is that George Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon Martin and reacted to him and behaved the way he did because he was African-American. And so having a white set of jurors more likely to identify the theory -- that they are more likely to identify with George Zimmerman, that's true. Mark is right about that.
And the fact that -- so the race factor alone does play in his favor. I disagree a little bit with Mark about the mother issue. I think the mother issue can play in the prosecution's favor. But what worries me the most is the Batson vs. Kentucky challenge -- that's what Mark was referring to -- when a prosecutor or a defense attorney has excused them of a given -- number of jurors of a given race, and the other side can say, hey, that wasn't fair, it was a race-based excusal, and then they can put the jurors back on.
That sends a message to the jury that can be very damaging to the prosecution, because not only do those two jurors know why they were excused and somehow it was improper to excuse them, but the rest of the jury is going to know it too. So the prosecution starts out with this kind of taint of having done something improper. The jury knows it.
COOPER: How long do you see this going?
GERAGOS: Right, and that's exactly what is going to happen.
COOPER: How long do you see this trial, Mark, going on for?
GERAGOS: I don't know.
I don't think this is a case where you want it to go on longer or drag it out indefinitely. I think if you're in the defense camp on this case, you want to get this over as quickly as possible. I think it's to the prosecution's advantage to drag it out ideally, so that they can get into some of these alternates that are there.
I'm telling you, I cannot emphasize enough the idea of placing two of those jurors who the prosecution had excused back into that jury box, and those jurors are going to -- have already thought about it. I guarantee you they have all -- it's crossed all of their minds in a case here which is so racially charged. I can't even imagine what is going through the prosecutors' minds at this point.
COOPER: Mark Geragos, Marcia Clark, good to have you on. Thanks.
As always, you can find out more on this story on CNN.com. There is a lot more there.
Next, the fight behind the fight over immigration reform and how it may reshape the Republican Party -- some interesting insight ahead.
Plus, new word on the circumstances surrounding the terribly premature death of James Gandolfini. It is still so hard to believe he's gone, as well as late word on determining exactly what killed him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: "Raw Politics" now and a fight that not only affects millions of people, not only could reshape the economy and the job market, not only could reshape America's border with Mexico, but on top of all that is also a battle in many ways for the future of the Republican Party. We're talking about immigration reform.
Today in the Senate, two Republicans with bipartisan support offered an amendment calling for 20,000 more border agents and completing a 700-mile fence, the idea, to beef up Republican support so if a larger reform bill passes the Senate, Republicans in the House will support it.
Now, that, however, is a big if.
Chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash is here to explain why.
So, Dana, it always seems to come back to border security every time, especially for Republicans. Does it look like this bill, at least as it now stands, is tough enough on border security to get more Republican support?
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's certainly tougher and looks like it could.
Look, it's not a question in the Senate of whether or not immigration reform will pass. It's a question of whether or not it will pass by a lot of votes. And talking to Republican sources, they think that this beefing up the border security will bring maybe 10 to 12 Republican senators who wouldn't even have come near it beforehand.
And the reason why this matters is because supporters say that they need maybe up to 70 votes in the Senate to give this issue momentum heading into the Republican-led House, because, of course, there, it's a whole different ball game.
And just anecdotally, Anderson, talking to members of Congress, they're Republicans, it seems as though positionings are hardening more against immigration reform than softening towards it.
COOPER: How much of this bill, how much of it is about politics?
BASH: How much time do you have?
Look, it is -- of course, everything is about politics, but this in particular is so fascinating, because it was dead for five years because this was kind of a third rail, particularly for Republicans.
COOPER: Right.
BASH: What happened was the 2012 election. Mitt Romney got 27 percent of the Hispanic vote, plummeted since the last Republican president, George W. Bush, who got 44 percent for his reelection.
And Republican leaders looked at the future of the Republican Party and said, we don't really have one if we continue down this road because the Hispanic vote is getting bigger and bigger. So that's why they said we have got to deal with immigration reform, get it off the table.
The problem is that not everybody in the party agrees. A lot of people in the base say that it's amnesty, no matter how you cut it, when you look at giving a path to citizenship.
And I talked to one of the leaders on this, Marco Rubio, about that very issue. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: I can tell you, politically, this is as much a negative as it is a positive.
People are really upset, and I respect it. I understand it. By the other token, though, this is hurting America. This should be about helping the United States. And if nothing passes, then this disaster we have now, that's what's going to stay in place.
BASH: A negative as much as a positive. Is it a risk for you politically?
RUBIO: I don't know for me. Certainly, there are people that are upset. I mean, there are people that I agree with on every other issue who are mad at us for having gotten involved in this issue. And primarily, they're just distrustful that the government will do its part.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Bash: A big part of the issue for the Republicans is that those who are from more diverse states, or those who have higher ambition like Marco Rubio, they're much more interested in getting immigration reform done, because they're worried about being beaten by Democrats, who are going to get more Hispanic voters.
But then you have the House, where it's very polarized. You have people from red, red districts. Their concern isn't Democrats. Their concern is getting challenges from the conservatives. I got to tell you that John Boehner, the House speaker today, compared immigration reform to Obama care which is, as you know, a kind of a four-letter word for Republicans. That kind of says it all.
COOPER: All right, Dana, thanks.
Up next, controversy over a decision that sentenced a murderer to death, not because he's innocent but because he may have been sent to the Death Row because he's African-American.
Also ahead, an incredible moment, a 3-year-old boy born deaf hears for the first time in his life from his dad. Just such a great moment, caught on tape. We'll talk to Dr. Sanjay Gupta, the medical breakthrough that made it all possible.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back, a Texas man named Duane Buck, convicted of murdering two people, has been sentenced to die. He's asked an appeals court to grant him a new sentencing hearing. And Buck's appeal is supported by organization, including a former Texas governor and one of the prosecutors two helped convict him. Not because there are any doubts that he committed murder, instead, supporters argue Buck is on Death Row because he is African-American. They pointed to testimony from an expert witness. Ed Lavandera reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There is no question Duane Buck is guilty of murder. In 1995, he shot and killed two people, including his former girlfriend, and wounded his step-sister in this Houston house. The controversy started after a jury convicted him.
That's because during the sentencing phase, former Texas prison psychologist Walter Quijano was asked this question by a prosecutor. Quote, "You have determined that the race factor, black, increases the future dangerousness for various complicated reasons. Is that correct?" He responded, "yes."
And later, in asking the jury to sentence Buck to death rather than life in prison, the prosecutor told the jury, quote, "You heard from Dr. Quijano that there was a probability that the man would commit future acts of violence.
LINDA GEFFIN, PROSECUTOR: It's so clear that the testimony shouldn't have been put before the jury.
LAVANDERA: Linda Geffin was an attorney working the case, but not just any attorney. She was one of the prosecutors. And she's now pushing to get Duane Buck a new sentencing hearing.
GEFFIN: The idea that he would be walked to the execution chamber without this simple hearing boggles the mind. It just doesn't make good sense.
LAVANDERA: Walter Quijano became a lightning rod figure 13 years ago when the death sentences of six inmates were overturned because of Quijano's controversial testimony that race is one of 20 factors that can determine if someone is likely to be a future danger to society. All of them were given new sentencing hearings. And all were sent back to Death Row.
Duane Buck was denied a new sentencing hearing but is appealing that decision. From jail, Duane Buck remembers what it was like to hear Quijano's testimony.
DUANE BUCK, CONVICTED MURDERER (via phone): He's basically saying because you are black, you need to die. And I felt that was strange because my lawyer didn't say nothing, and nobody else, you know, the prosecutor or the judge. Nobody did. It was like it was an everyday thing in the courts.
LAVANDERA: Another member of the prosecution's team, Roe Wilson, says Buck doesn't deserve a new sentencing hearing because Quijano's testimony has little impact on the jury. In fact, Wilson noted, Quijano was called as an expert witness for the defense and testified that the convicted killer should be spared the death penalty. ROE WILSON, PROSECUTOR: Is it right? Should you ever leak race to why a judgment is reached? No. But in Buck's case, that's not what happened. And in the cases where it did happen, it was reversed.
LAVANDERA: After days of calling Walter Quijano, we tracked him down at his suburban Houston psychological clinic.
Hi, my name is Ed Lavandera. I'm with CNN. We have been trying to get ahold of you to talk about your testimony in several death penalty cases.
WALTER QUIJANO, PSYCHOLOGIST: Sure.
LAVANDERA: Quijano invited us in, he says to clear the misconceptions over his testimony. He says over the years, he's received death threats.
(on camera): The allegations that, allegations that -- allegations that you are a racist, allegations that are you are a racist and that your testimony is racist, what do you say to that?
QUIJANO: Well, it's not true, but, OK, of course, I have never been that type of person who will argue for me.
LAVANDERA: Quijano says his testimony has been misunderstood. He argues that some 20 social factors can be used to determine if won is likely to repeat violent behavior, things like age, sex, socioeconomic background. Education, drug use, yes, race.
QUIJANO: They take that one piece of testimony and twists it and make it look like race causes people to make crimes, which is stupid. Now, no human being would say such thing.
LAVANDERA: But in some of the testimony that I've read, you say race is a factor as to whether or not someone would be a future danger. So it comes off as you're saying if someone is black, they're more likely to be dangerous in the future.
QUIJANO: People with guns are more likely to be violent than no guns. It doesn't mean all gun owners are violent.
They are simplistically taking this and twisting it. I'll show you a quote from a classic textbook in the violence. It say if you do not factor in race, you are not discussing the problem seriously.
LAVANDERA: It's unfair that if are you are a black defendant and you are compared to what a bunch of other black people are doing, that ultimately, it's not fair for you, is it?
QUIJANO: It's not fair. But those artists did studies. But when you say he is likely to commit another crime because he is male, nobody objects to that. It's just the same as a comparison.
LAVANDERA: Duane Buck has one last chance to fight his death penalty sentence. A Texas appeals court will decide any day this summer if he gets another shot in the courtroom. Ed Lavandera, CNN, Houston, Texas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, the next time we're going to hear anything from the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals is next Wednesday. But we don't know if there's going to be a decision in the case.
We want to talk more about it with Syracuse University professor Boyce Watkins, who's the founder of YourBlackWorld.com. He joins us by Skype.
Also, here, Jeffrey Toobin, our senior legal analyst.
Jeff, let me start with you. Is there any doubt that considering race like this is a violation of this guy's constitutional rights?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No doubt. I mean, this is textbook. This is -- you know, when I started looking into this, I had to sort of look at it several times, because you think, he didn't really say that. But he really did say that. And...
COOPER: He continues to say that.
TOOBIN: And John Cornyn, who is now a senator from Texas. He used to be the attorney general. He said that Buck and the five others deserved new hearings, and the five others got the new hearings, as Ed's story said. They were all sentenced to death again. But for some reason they won't give Buck a new hearing. And it's just completely outrageous.
COOPER: Boyce, you say this is really indicative of a deeper infection that plagues the court system in this country.
BOYCE WATKINS, YOURBLACKWORLD.COM: Yes. Absolutely. You know, before we get upset with what Dr. Quijano said, which I certainly don't agree with, we have to realize that, to some extent, what he's doing is he's slapping the justice system in the face with well- documented racial disparities that exist all across the country.
When I started working on a massive incarceration campaign with Russell Simmons, one of the first things that we brought to light is that, according to the Sentencing Project, African-American males get sentences that are 20 percent longer than white males, even when they commit the same crimes.
So even though the professor was naive enough to explicitly mention race as a factor in sentencing, the reality is that we've been implicitly using race as a factor for a very long time.
COOPER: Jeff, what they're saying in not granting a new hearing is that this guy was a defense witness, and that makes some sort of a difference?
TOOBIN: Not. The jury hears what the jury hears, regardless of who is putting forth the witness. The other factor here is Texas has an unusual death penalty law in that the issue of future dangerousness is very important. Unfortunately, that law leads to all sorts of quackery. The idea -- the legal system has a hard enough time telling people -- determining what happened in the past. The idea that you can put a psychologist on and predict future dangerousness is just absurd.
COOPER: It's like that movie about future crime, you know. You're fighting future crime.
TOOBIN: Exactly. And Quijano is not the only psychologist who's gotten in trouble here. There is a famous Dr. Death who has testified all the time, who gave similarly ridiculous testimony. But the whole idea of psychologists telling juries that they can predict who's dangerous is fraudulent in and of itself.
COOPER: "The Minority Report" was that...
TOOBIN: "The Minority Report."
COOPER: Boyce, if this case isn't reheard, what kind of a message do you think that sends to African-Americans in Texas and the rest of the country?
WATKINS: Well, I think when you look at the justice system across the country, especially in Texas, we have to realize that prisons have become the new slave plantations. When you look at the racial disparities, particularly what's happening with the war on drugs, we know that African-American, particularly black men, are an endangered species, largely because of the prison industrial complex. Families have been destroyed.
I do cases every single day. Just yesterday, I read a case about a family -- an entire family that was sent to prison for drug distribution. So all the children grew up without parents because of the system.
So what we have to understand is that our desire to hold up the law over simply doing the right thing is really destroying the fabric of our country. We're really setting our children up for a dismal future when we decide that incarcerating people is more important than actually making our country safer and better in the long run.
COOPER: So, Jeff, the -- I mean, he could get a new -- if he got a new sentencing hearing, that still -- he still could be sentenced to death.
TOOBIN: That's exactly what happened with the other five.
COOPER: With the other -- right. So nobody is arguing he should go home.
TOOBIN: Go home.
COOPER: Right. It's a question of he should be sentenced without race in mind? TOOBIN: No, it just so happens, as I understand it, Buck has been an absolutely model prisoner. He's ministered to other inmates on Death Row. There does seem to be a chance that a jury informed of that would take that into consideration and maybe not sentence him to death.
But there is no chance that a jury could say he's not guilty, he can go home. That would not be on the table in this hearing.
COOPER: Bruce Watkins, it's good to have you on.
Jeff Toobin, as well.
Just ahead, a 3-year-old boy who was born totally deaf is making medical history. We're going to show you this technology. This is such an amazing story, and it's going to just put a smile on your face to see this little boy, 3 years old, hearing for the first time, hearing his dad's voice for the very first time. I'll show you the video ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Most of us, of course, don't remember the first time we heard a sound. In fact, none of us do. It's impossible, because it happened while we were still in the womb.
But a 3-year-old boy named Grayson Clamp was born totally deaf and will never forget that moment when he first heard sound. It was captured on video. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Daddy loves you. Daddy loves you. Daddy loves you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. He hears.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you hear daddy?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It's an incredible moment, obviously, for Grayson and his family. He was born without the nerves needed to process and hear sound. He's the first child in the United States to get what's called an auditory brain stem implant, a device that's being studied in clinical trials across the country. He had the surgery in April in North Carolina.
Joining me now is our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
So, I mean, it's remarkable to see his face light up like that. How does this implant work?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I can't stop watching this video. It's just amazing when he hears that sound for the first time. You know, let me show you the way this works. I mean, again, it's just -- it is remarkable. We're working at a true medical sort of first here.
As you pointed out, Anderson, the nerve that goes from his ear to his brain stem, that's what he essentially doesn't have. That's a very specific kind of hearing loss. So what they're trying to do is they're basically recreating part of his nervous system. Let me show you here on my brain model.
So this is the left -- right side of the brain. This, you see the microphone that's sort of sitting around his ear. That takes sound, sort of processes it, distills it to various frequencies, Anderson, and then literally, there's a wire that goes straight to his brain stem, to the cochlear nuclei over here. You don't need to remember the name. But just know this: That it takes that sound that it's hearing and sort of shuttles it all throughout the brain, allowing him to have that reaction that you just saw there. One of total surprise, and "what is that" as he heard his dad's voice for the first time.
COOPER: And this is different than the cochlear implant?
GUPTA: It is different than the cochlear implant. The cochlear implant, you essentially have something defective in your inner ear. But the nerve that goes from your inner ear to the your brain, the brain stem, that's working. So you don't need to replace that.
In a very small percentage of people, including Grayson, they don't have the nerve at all. So it's a much more -- it's a much more difficult problem in some ways to tackle. But the way they tackled it was essentially to create a part of his nervous system. It's just an unbelievably remarkable thing.
COOPER: You know, watching the whole video, he seemed sort of confused or thrown by it. I can't imagine what it's like to live, you know, that many years of your life without hearing any sound and then all of a sudden hearing sound. Do the doctors know how much he can hear and exactly what he hears?
GUPTA: It's a great question. And it's difficult to know. We ask them the same thing. And they say they know he is sound aware. He's clearly hearing sounds. How much he can actually process of that sound and recognize of his language, that's harder to tell.
One anecdote that they share with me is he seems to love music. In fact, when he hears music, he will go over and turn the music even louder. He seems to enjoy that.
But he's 3 years old. And, you know, we talk about this idea that your brain is pretty plastic at that age. So he's probably going to grow and learn very rapidly what to make of these sounds and transmit them into something actually useful for him.
COOPER: Will he be able to speak at some point?
GUPTA: That's what they say. Again, we asked the same thing. They think he'll be able to understand -- hear the language, understand it and then be able to express himself through spoken language, as well. The doctors seem pretty convinced of this.
I should point out, this is the first time it's ever been done on a kid in this country. It has been done on adults before. But again, kids' brains are still developing. So it's just a little bit unclear how much, you know, the brain has already bit off, what it's going to be able adapt to specifically. But the doctors seem very, very optimistic that he's going to be able do that.
COOPER: So this is just a testing -- I mean, it's going to be available to anybody with his condition?
GUPTA: Yes. Right now, it's very much in testing phase. He's the first child in America to have this done. It's been approved for ten children, five of whom don't have that nerve at all, the nerve going from the ear to the brain. Five who had the nerve, but the nerve was traumatized in some way, damaged, so it's not useful.
But you know, this seems to be working so far with Grayson. He's sort of the first -- first patient. But if it continues to work, and that's the goal, to make it much more widely available.
COOPER: Yes. Well, we wish him the best. Him and his family. Sanjay, thanks.
GUPTA: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: That's so cool. Grayson's parents will be on "NEW DAY" tomorrow morning, starting at 6 a.m.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: This is the time of year when all the pomp and circumstance is over. About two million new college students enter the job market. Now, in these very competitive times, a lot of folks just want to get a foot in the door someplace, any place. But a lot of grads already veterans of an earlier fight in the tough and competitive world of internships.
Tom Foreman takes a look in this week's "American Journey."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Rushing through the early traffic and hurrying to their desks, Dana Shanley and Bari Friedman are honing their talents and hoping to prove their worth during a summer internship at the big public relationships firm Ogilvy. But they know just by being here, they've already beaten the odds.
DANA SHANLEY, INTERN AT OGILVY: They tell us here at Ogilvy that almost 500 people applied for ten spots. So it was very competitive.
BARI FRIEDMAN, INTERN AT OGILVY: We definitely feel very lucky to have been offered a position.
AASIF MANDVI, ACTOR: This will not be your average internship.
FOREMAN: The new hit movie "The Internship" pokes fun at adults stepping up the competition in this arena, but it's no joke. Once the purview of the ambitious few, internships are now being aggressively sought by grown-ups looking for career changes and younger and younger students, too, according to the Web site Intern Match.
ANDREW MAGUIRE, CEO, INTERN MATCH: One of the things we noted in our report is that 50 percent of the students that do an internship are completing it by the end of their sophomore year. You know, so this isn't just something that juniors and seniors are doing. It's happening earlier, and companies are recruiting earlier to, you know, try to stay a step ahead.
FOREMAN: The goals for a great many: make contacts, open doors, and spin that internship into employment. That's what Shefali Vyas was after.
(on camera): So how did you make that happen?
SHEFALI VYAS, FORMER INTERN: I tried to make the best of my internship to try to get in as much experience as I can, and then I left a note, I wanted to work here.
FOREMAN: It worked.
VYAS: It worked.
FOREMAN (voice-over): She interned at Ogilvy three years ago, and she's never left.
Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: That does it for us. Thanks for watching. "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.
