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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

National Guard Bracing for Violence; Private Autopsy: Brown Shot at least Six Times; Different Version of Shooting Emerge; National Guard on Streets of Ferguson; New Protest Under Way in Ferguson; Radio Caller: Brown "Bum-Rushed" Officer

Aired August 18, 2014 - 21:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, AC360 HOST: Hey. Good evening everyone from Ferguson. Thanks for watching this extended addition of AC360. The sun is going down on a day that had seen an awful lot of developments after a night, last night saw violence, so troubling the Missouri Governor Jay Nixon called in the National Guard.

Today, we learned that the results of a private autopsy showing that Michael Brown was shot at least six times by Officer Darren Wilson at some distance. We also heard a competing account of DSN from someone close to Officer Wilson. President Obama also weighed in. Listen.


BARACK OBAMA, CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have all seen images of protesters and law enforcement in the streets, it's clear that the vast majority of people are peacefully protesting. What's also clear is that a small minority of individuals are not. Well, I understand the passions and the anger that arise over the death of Michael Brown. Giving into that anger by alluding or carrying guns and even attacking the police only deserves to raise tensions and start chaos (ph). It undermines rather than advancing justice.


COOPER: The call for calm from the president going into tense night, 24 hours after when the worst night to this city has in. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: High hopes for a peaceful weekend in Ferguson were quickly replaced with violence. Governor Nixon declared a state of emergency on Saturday and implemented a curfew for midnight to 5:00 a.m.

JAY NIXON, MISSOURI GOVERNOR: This is not the silence the people of Ferguson or this region or others but to contain those who were drowning out the voice of the people with their actions. We will not allow a handful of looters to endanger the rest of this community.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the police department, you are violating the state imposed curfew. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But those few looters disobey the imposed curfew.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Must leave the stores.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As the chaos ensued police earlier criticized for being too hands on held back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're hearing the police asked for security. But we're asking the police need security and we're not getting it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By Sunday evening, things went from bad to worse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to march in peacefully. We were right in front of the command centers, they simply wanting to bend down to our knees with our hands up and say to the police, "Our hands are up. Don't shoot." And all of the sudden these tanks came around and started shooting tear gas. I did a tear gas and the Molotovs. I know what tear gas is when it's burning my face and my eyes and that's what they were shooting us with.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In down town, Saint Louis a different scene as protesters took to the streets to offer their support for Officer Darren Wilson as his first images made their way around the Internet. And today is the governor called in the National Guard to keep the peace. A family friend provided the first account of Wilson's version of events leading up to Brown's death, calling in to a radio program.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So he goes in reverse back to them, tries to get out of his car. He slams his door violently, I think he shot Michael dead. And then he open his car again, you know, tries to get out and as he stands up, Michael just bum-rushes and just shoves him back into his car. Punches him in the face and then -- quick Darren grasps for his gun and Michael grabs the gun.

At one point, he's got the gun totally turned to get it through hips and Darren, you know, shoves it away and the gun goes off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A source or detailed knowledge of the investigation says this account is accurate and that it matches with Officer Wilson had told the investigators. A second autopsy ordered by Brown's family revealed that he was shot at least six times including twice in the head and showed no signs of struggle. It was another unsettling piece of news for an already restless community.

COOPER: The police don't want people to congregate in anyone's spot, they've lived to curfew and it's still the afternoon -- so even there was a curfew people will be allowed to be here. And then talked to people that they can't stand in one spot, so periodically the police will come through, trying to get people kind of moving along including the media.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still more questions and answers as the town riddled with frustration and heart break, hopes to find form peace in the coming night.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: And Don Lemon joins me down. You've been here now for quite a while, for a long time. How did today, the mood here on the street differ from the last couple of days you've seen here?

DON LEMON, HOST, CNN: When I first got here it was a bit more peaceful because they've brought in Ron Johnson who was the head of the Missouri Highway Patrol and people were embracing him.

COOPER: That maybe difference initially?

LEMON: It made a huge difference in initially and then in went away to cover another story came back and when I was gone just for that day or so all hell broke loose. And I'm not exactly sure, why, what happen, what was a tipping point but there certainly was a tipping point Anderson where it developed into violence and all of the tactics that Mr. Johnson, Captain Johnson had used to trying to, you know, get people of the streets and to get them to be violent, for some reason that just went haywire. He was marching with people.

COOPER: Right.

LEMON: He would come out. People would embrace him. I'm not sure if you had the chances ...

COOPER: We've both seen a kind of a de-escalation at least the appearance of police officers in full tactical gear with gasmask on with military equipment ...

LEMON: Right.

COOPER: ... he put all, he putted in.

LEMON: He put a kibosh on that but then had to bring it back. And if you -- I was there listening to his press conference very late last night, early until morning, it get about midnight or 1:00 and he sounded so exhausted and just, you know, not as if he had given up but just -- he was just flabbergasted and that he was at his (inaudible) and sort of went through very carefully what did happened and explaining why he had to do what he did and put the tactical officers back out on the streets.

COOPER: Yeah. That press there was a press conference here at around 1:30 a.m. in the morning. But right now, we got probably 100, 200 maybe several hundred people kind of moving down this avenue. We're about five blocks away. This is really -- a couple of blocks away is really where a lot of the altercations have occurred.

LEMON: Yes. And this -- when we got here this is sort of mile or two stretch of road, here completely packed with not only cars but people marching and so there were thousands of people out here at one point but then they coiled that and now, as you see they close it off the traffic and now people can't stand on, they're not suppose to ...

COOPER: Right.

LEMON: ... so they're just been moving in this at this point back and forth.

COOPER: We should point out, there is no curfew tonight. The curfew is actually been lifted but they have made it clear that you have to keep moving, that anyone standing still for long periods of time congregating as a group ...

LEMON: Yeah.

COOPER: subject to arrest.

LEMON: Yeah. And we didn't know that as part of the media.

COOPER: You always get it right (inaudible).

LEMON: But it was interesting because we have been hearing people Anderson say "Well, we don't know what to do." The rules are changing, right? And so we can stand, we had sort of seen that from a distance and then today, we were, you know, we have more witness to it because we were in the situation room, about to do a lives shot, they told us this is where we are suppose to stand as a media. They moved us here from the QT, from the QuickTrip and then I'm in the middle of the live shot and this officer comes and just starts to push me along with the other people.

I didn't know what is going on. This is where you told us to be and now all of the sudden, the rules have changes and you're moving us.

COOPER: And there are -- I mean there's a lot of frustration both on the part of people here and also even police. I think you'll find these difficult situations to try to get their arms around. I mean last night, there were guns drawn, tonight, no one really knows if what's going to (inaudible).

LEMON: There were guns drawn on us by police officers. When we got here, it was a sort of at the height of -- just before the curfew went into place and as soon of at the height of a chaos and my producer and I drove up and we went to a parking lot and the cop, you know, the officer with the gun, with the flash on the end of it, you've seen it, said put your hands up and we said we're media then after that, he, you know, moves us somewhere else. Another officer did the same thing.

We heard gun shots and you kind of understand that officers fear for their life. It's a very tense situation but listen, for the most part, you know, most of the people here are peaceful.

COOPER: No doubt about it.

LEMON: They just want their voice heard. They want some validation. And they feel like they are not occupied.

COOPER: And there you get that sense particularly during the day, there are people out here bring their families out here, you know, they want people to hear their voice and that's the bigger thing. Don, thank you.

LEMON: Thank you (inaudible).

COOPER: (inaudible). We're not on the private autopsy that we've been talking about the autopsy conducted by former New York City, Chief Medical Examiner Michael Baden and assisted by Shawn Parcells who joined us in the last hour. Take a look.


COOPER: Thank you very much for being with us.


COOPER: For you, what are the headlines that you discover? I mean you say at least six shots. What exactly does it tell us about what happen?

PARCELLS: We know for sure that he's shot at least six times. So as we point it out in the press conference this morning that he had two shots to the head and then he had four wounds to the arm. We've got a wound that occurred to the right upper shoulder here and we've got wound that occurred to the right side of the chest here that Dr. Baden and I feel that those are most likely are entrance wounds.

For example, the shot that entered above the eyebrow came out right here and most likely went right back in. That's all one bullet.

COOPER: One of the shots in the arm was said to be back to front. What exactly does that mean?

PARCELLS: Well, during our autopsy examination we've found one of the gun shot wounds in this part of the arms. So anatomically speaking we say that's the medial aspect. Now, as I pointed out this morning, the arm is a very movable part of your body so the shot could have come from the front, if he is putting his hand up or if he's raising his hands like this but at the same time, when we put our arms down and we're walking along like this, as if he's walking away from the officer that shot could have come from the back to the front.

COOPER: Now, if one arm was raised, you can't say whether that means he had his arms up in I'm giving out posture or don't shoot me or I mean one of the accounts according to this friend of the police officer was that he was charging the police officer. You can't say for sure whether an arm was raise in a running position or in a hands up position?

PARCELLS: Correct. And that's a lot of the information that Dr. Baden and I are missing right now.

COOPER: And there -- Let's focus in on what you're missing because all that stuff is important but may able to examine the police officer's vehicle, being able to examine the clothing. All -- What else do you need to actually get a complete picture?

PARCELLS: To get a really good picture we want to review the first autopsy which would be the autopsy report, the autopsy photos, the x- rays and tox report. We also want to review all witness statements, the officer statement in particular.

COOPER: And none of that you were able to review?

PARCELLS: We haven't.


PARCELLS: Also clothing of the victim.

COOPER: The importance of the clothing is what? To get a sense of the distance of the gun fire?

PARCELLS: Correct. In other words, if I -- you and I are at a really close range, so if I shoot you at this range and you don't have your shirt on you're going to get stippling and gunpowder on your skin.

COOPER: Right.

PARCELLS: But what your shirt or other materials on, the shirt and those materials will filter that out. So when we actually look at it at the autopsy it looks like it came from a distance.

COOPER: Do you have a sense of the order of the shots?

PARCELLS: We can't say for sure what the order was in. The Dr. Baden and I feel very confident that the shot to the head were the last two shots that hit in Michael out.

COOPER: And that was his head -- it was in the top of the head?

PARCELLS: Correct. There is one here ...

COOPER: So the head would've been down.

PARCELLS: ... and one here and it would've been down. Correct.

COOPER: OK. Shawn, I appreciate you being with us (inaudible).


COOPER: Shawn Parcells who conducted along with Michael Baden with the private autopsy for the Brown family. Well coming up, how the autopsy, other forensic evidence and other factors may speak exactly what happen, two sharply divergent accounts of what happen after Wilson and Michael Brown fatal encounter, details on that ahead.


COOPER: Welcome back to our continuing coverage here live in Ferguson. There are National Guard troops of president and Ferguson, protester screaming in all evening. Really throughout the day we have been seeing people coming, holding out signs, getting their voices out there. Hopefully they will be calm throughout the night. People here received a lot of news today to react to, to responds to, including the autopsy and the emergence or woman in Josie who gave her announce to Officer Wilson's version of events here. You hear the portion of it at the top of the hour.

I want to play more of what she said on the radio follow by contrasting account of Michael Brown's friend Dorian Johnson as well as the woman who took video of the aftermath. First, the woman going by the name Josie. Listen.


JOSIE: Okay. So he said that they, you know, they were walking in the middle of the street and he rolled his window down and, you know, said "Come on guys out of the street. They refused to, and were yelling back and saying, "We are almost where we are going."

There was some cussing involved, and then he just kept rolling up and he pulled over, and I believe, at that point, he called for a backup but I am not sure. But I know he pulled up ahead of them and he was watching them and then gets the call-in that there was a strong-arm robbery, and they get the description, and he was looking at them and they got something in their hands that looks like it could be, what, you know, those cigars or whatever, so he goes in reverse back to them and tries to get out of his car and they slam his door shut violently -- I think he said Michael did. And then he opened his car again and, you know, tries to get out. And as he stands up, Michael just bum rushes him, just shoves him back into the car, punches him in the face, and then of course Darren grabs for his gun.

And Michael grabs the gun. At one point he has the gun totally turned against his hip and Darren, you know, shoves it away and the gun goes off. Well then Michael takes off with his friend and he gets about 35 feet away and, you know, Darren, of course protocol is to pursue. So he stands up and yells: "Freeze." Michael and his friend turn around and Michael starts taunting him, "Oh what are you going to do about it?", you know, "You are not going to shoot me."

And then, he said, all of a sudden he just started to bum rush him. He just started coming at him full speed, and so he just started shooting, and he just kept coming. So he really thinks he was on something, because he just kept coming. It was unbelievable. And then so he finally ended up -- a final shot within the forehead and then he fell about two, three feet in front of the officer.

So that's why stories are going around that "oh, he was shot execution style." I think some people saw, you know, the shots to his head. Of course ballistics will prove he wasn't shot in the back like the other people are saying that "when this (inaudible). But that's, his version of what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And can I ask. How did you come by this information? Is this something that you -- did you have discussions with the family? How did you come to know the details of it?

JOSIE: It was with his, significant other who told me. But before it was such a huge, you know. It was Sunday night, before the riots, so, you know, it was when they were still on Facebook and everyone was still talking, you know, it was kind of an open discussion at that point, and of course, we had no idea it would turn into this. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Now that was a woman who calls herself Josie on a local radio station today. Now, normally we wouldn't play that account but here accounts squares that Officer Wilson has told the investigator that. According to a source CNN has talked to him with detailed information about the investigation. Now, Dorian Johnson who was with Michael brown when the shooting happen.


DORIAN JOHNSON, MICHAEL BROWN'S FRIEND: When he fired his weapon I moved seconds before he pulled the trigger. I saw the fire come out the barrel and I instantly knew that it was a gun. I look at my friend big Mike and saw there he was strapped in a chest upper (inaudible) because I saw a blood splatter down his sides -- his right area and at that time we both took off running and I was able to hide myself behind the first vehicle that was up on the scene and then Officer Darren got out his car, my friend big Michael was still running.

He run passing me and saw me in plain sight. He said to me verbatim that -- he said, "Keep running bro."

And he kept running and almost in an instant my body start rising and I see the officer preceding after my friend Big Mike with his gun drawn and he fired a second shot and that struck my friend Big Mike and at that time he tucked around with his hands up beginning to tell the officer that he was unarmed and to tell him to stop shooting but at that time the officer was firing several more shots into my friend and he hit the ground and died.


COOPER: Now that's one of several eye witness account including that of a woman who saw if from outside her window. Piaget Crenshaw is her name. I spoke with her in the last hour of the program.


COOPER: You say his arms were up. There's an account from this woman who called into the radio show who claims that the officer is saying Michael Brown was rushing the police officer. Is that what you saw?

CRENSHAW, EYEWITNESS TO MICHEAL BROWN SHOOTING: No, ain't no time that I see him move towards that police officer. He may have taken one centimeter of a step forward before he was gunned down.

COOPER: You say his hands were up, do you remember in what way they were up?

CRENSHAW: They were just slowly going up. He probably didn't even get a chance to get all the way up there before he was stroked.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Now, two narratives, two autopsies so far, several investigations local, State and Federal, all of it taking place with a pressure cooker, boil away. Want to make sense is some of the facts as we know so far and it talked for other facts. We still need to know. I'm joined by a panel Lawrence Kobilinsky, Forensic Sciences and New York's John Jay College of Criminal Justice, also senior league analyst Jeffrey Toobin, Criminal Defense Attorney Danny Cevallos and legal affairs commentator Areva Martin.

Jeff, how do you reconcile the differences between Dorian Johnson's account and the account from this apparent friend of Officer Wilson? Obviously two completely diversion accounts.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: You can't. I mean they are just different versions of the same event, that's not all that uncommon. In fact, it's often common in fast moving events like this. What people need to do now is slow down and get all the evidence together.

Mostly the forensic scientific evidence, not just the autopsies and there are several more to come but the ballistics evidence and the entrance -- in the clothing like where did the bullets come in? We will know a lot more from that evidence and then we can decide or the investigators and ultimately perhaps the jury can decide which of the eye witnesses are telling the truth.

COOPER: Dr. Kobilinsky on that, I mean we did hear the six shots -- at least six shots according to Michael Baden, the private pathologist. We don't know what the local, the state autopsy has shown and also the -- there will be a federal autopsy but in terms of questions we still need to know, Jeff has raised some of them. What else stands out to you?

LAWRENCE KOBILINKSY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well there are some really critical questions like for example, how many shots -- how many rounds did the police officer actually fire? Were there warning shots fired, did he miss hitting Michael Brown? We need to have number shell casings.

There are also only tree bullets found in the body. Where are the other bullets? Have the police recovered those items? But I agree with Jeff completely. There's a lot of forensic evidence that needs to be put together. For example, if there was a battle for the gun, is Michael Brown's DNA on that gun together with the police officer? That is something that will stand out as a fact and that will tell you about a struggle.

That kind of information, gun shot residue, not only is it important for a distance determination between the muscle of the gun and Michael Brown but also was there a gun shot residue throughout the vehicle. If in fact the gun was fired inside the vehicle. Yet the autopsy -- autopsies are only of small part of the entire picture.

Eyewitness testimony, unreliable. Physical evidence, totally reliable but it's got to be reconstructed properly but we just don't know all the answers. COOPER: Danny Cevallos, you know, (inaudible) blown our last hour, asked a question, if the roles were reversed and Michael Brown had shot a police officer. He says, the police -- I will raise the question whether the police would have released a lot more evidence than they have already have, do you believe that the police have released as much as they can given this is an ongoing investigation or are they holding back?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALIST: Of course they haven't released everything that they can, that's one of the main disputes is that they released information in a piecemeal fashion that painted Michael Brown in a bad light. Now, of course we should also look at it that we didn't have anything several days ago and then we had some information.

Was there's some calculation in how it was released? Possibly. But look, we're getting -- now we're finally beginning to get the other side of the narrative via officer's account. But I have a confession Anderson, I, like many people today, I fell into the Josie vortex. She was -- she spoke in a present tense.

That her narrative placed her right there, she was credible. And then I took a step back and I said, "Wait a second." Not only do I not know who Josie is, she's not even an actual eyewitness. So I think we need to reserve out judgment and we can't consider these two narratives as equal between eyewitness and somebody who heard it from a friend, who heard it from a friend.

I think we will get the officer's narrative. His probably given what's called a Garrity statement that will eventually leak out -- it's only shielded so much. We will find out his narrative, but I think we should be careful to rush to accept Josie's narrative as an eyewitness which she is not.

COOPER: That's certainly an important point and there are a number of eyewitnesses who we have heard from. Areva, I want to get your take into some moment, we had to take a quick break. We'll come right back, there's been long standing tensions here. Obviously, protest continuing right behind me that's really grown significantly.

I should say really in the last 30 minutes or go -- or so, several hundred people now marching through the streets calling for justice for Michael Brown. Calls which we have heard all throughout the day but this certainly the largest crowd that we have seen as far, I would estimate 400 or so people, maybe that many in this crown right now. We will see how things develop.

You'll see they're moving. Police -- there is not a curfew in effect but police were saying that they are -- people are not allowed to stand still in protest that they have to keep moving. We've seen police being quite forceful in moving people along throughout the day.

We're going to take a short break. More from our panel ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: With the sun down here in Ferguson, a curfew lifted, the National Guard here they're not present visibly on the streets here. We've been talking about the private autopsy that was done, eyewitness accounts of the killing of Michael Brown, police conducts and a lot more back with our Panel. Again, Areva Martin, let me start with you.

Do you agree that this will essentially come down to forensics as the tipping, you know, as the tipping point investigation?

AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: I think it doesn't matter what's going to happen in the trial, absolutely forensics are going to be very important. But in terms of what is going to take for this community to feel like justice was served Anderson, I don't think the forensic evidence is going to make a big difference.

I think the community feels as if Michael was gunned down, he was killed execution style by this police officer and I don't think there's going to be anything that's going to convince the community of Ferguson that there was justification in the shooting of Mike Brown, given that he was unarmed, given that there was six shots fired. So I know the importance of evidence in terms of a trial in the legal process but it's not going to satisfy this community unless there is an arrest and a conviction of this officer.

COOPER: Well, I mean, Jeff, in terms of the use -- go ahead.

TOOBIN: Well I just going to say, I mean, evidence is how the judicial system works. I mean I understand and I can certainly -- I understand how angry people are but I don't think you can say, well, you know, the evidence is what the evidence is but people aren't going to be satisfied unless there's a conviction.

You know, the legal system has to work according to evidence and, you know, I trust people that they will respond to evidence in a court room if it even comes to that, not that, you know, they are so emotional that they don't even care about the evidence, I just don't think that's fair.

MARTIN: Can I respond to that Anderson?

COOPER: Yes, I mean ...

MARTIN: It's not a question of ...

COOPER: Yes, but Areva let me just point out, you know, when I talked to a lot of people here on the streets today, what they say is look, they want transparency, they want justice and many people here no doubt feel that this officer is guilty and should be tried but above all else you hear, you know, they want information and they want to make sure that the justice system works properly.

MARTIN: Absolutely Anderson. This community is looking for justice and I wasn't suggesting that this community is so emotional that they lack the intelligence to understand the criminal process than what happens in the court room. But what this community also knows is that four African-American unarmed men were killed within one month. They also know that disproportionately African-American male-- men are killed in this country by police officers.

The numbers of stops in the community of Ferguson, the number of arrest are disproportionate towards African-American men. So this isn't happening in a vacuum. This is a national issue that's impacting African-American men all over this country. And what we're seeing being played out on the streets of Ferguson could be any community where African-Americans are disproportionately impacted by police brutality and excessive force.

COOPER: Dr. Kobilinsky, the federal government performed their autopsy today, that's going to be the last of three autopsies. Do they have access? We know the private autopsy didn't have access to police reports, to eyewitness reports, to all the information and, you know, the clothing that police have collected or even the police vehicle. Will the federal government autopsy have access to all of that?

KOBLINSKY: Well I would think if they don't have it yet they certainly will have it. They have one of the finest laboratories in the country and certainly they need to look at the forensic evidence to put this all together. We'll have some answers here.

COOPER: Danny Cevallos, I appreciate you being with us, Dr. Kobilinsky, Jeff Toobin and Areva Martin as well. Here in Ferguson as Ariva mentioned, there is a long history of tensions between local law enforcement, the local police and the community, they're sworn to serve and protect. Since the shooting of Michael Brown those tension we've seen have boiled over a number of times. Jason Carroll looks at how we got to this point.


JASON CAROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Tensions are running high in Ferguson now but this is certainly isn't the first time the city has dealt with unrest. In 2009, the Ferguson Police Department was also under scrutiny for the case of Henry Davis. It was another incident of alleged excessive force.

HENRY DAVIS, ALLEGED POLICCE BRUTALITY VICTIM: It's what they don't need, I said to them, "I was the wrong person." And they beat me for no reason, while I was in the car.

CAROLL: Davis spoke to us by phone, his attorney listened as he recounted the story of what he says happened to him on a rainy night nearly five years ago. Davis said police spotted him after he pulled over to wait out the weather. Turns out, his name match the name of another Henry Davis who was wanted for outstanding tickets. Davis says he told police they had the wrong man.

DAVIS: I laid -- they'd almost found me then the female police officer jumped on my back and when she handcuffed me they started beating.

CAROLL: Davis ended up in a hospital with cuts, bruises and a concussion. He was charged with speeding and driving while intoxicated and even property damage for bleeding on the officer's uniforms, all of those charges were later dropped. A judge ruled the officers committed perjury for the property damage claim but no officer faced any charges or disciplinary action.

But the case isn't over. Davis' attorney has filed a civil suit against the city of Ferguson alleging his client's civil rights were violated. Last year a judge ruled in favor of the city Davis is appealing.

It must be upsetting to you when you see what's happening in Ferguson today.

JIM SCHOTTEL, CIVIL ATTORNEY: When you see cases like this you try to make a difference to prevent things like what happened in the Michael Brown case.

CAROLL: The Davis case occurred before the current police chief took office. Even so that chief, Tom Jackson, acknowledges changes are needed to be made.

So, is that an acknowledgment that the officers in the past did not act appropriately?

CHIEF THOMAS JACKSON, FERGUSON POLICE: Not at all. What my focus was is to make it the best police department I could.

CAROLL: But according to the department's own records last year, more African-Americans were pulled over than whites in Ferguson even though their number show more whites that years had higher rates of carrying contraband like drugs.

JACKSON: If that's the perception out there then that's something else we have to work on ...

CAROLL: But is it more in perception?

JACKSON: ... because -- I don't know. I don't think so.

CAROLL: The Davis case is well known here locally and the Michael Brown case has only served to further strain relations between police and the African-American community.

PAMELA MEANES, PRESIDENT, NATT. BAR ASSOCIATION: When a community loses faith and the very people that it pays to protect them, it doesn't matter what the department does our attempts to do whatever it does has no credibility.


COOPER: And Jason Carroll joins me now, well what's happening with that case?

CAROLL: Well the case is no appeal, there's going to be a hearing about it this up coming Wednesday and his attorney basically is telling me that he hopes -- because of everything that's happening out here that finally this young man is going to get the justice he deserves because of what's happening out here now. COOPER: All right, Jason Carroll, I appreciate it. Thank you very much. We'll continue to follow that case as well. Just out of a candy word from the man in charge of keeping the peace in Ferguson, Missouri Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson. He grew up here, he's also a father and the shooting of Michael Brown has resonated deeply with him he says, we'll hear from him ahead.


COOPER: Last week a report in the National Guard has been called in by the Governor to help try to keep the peace here in Ferguson, Missouri. Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson is still in charge of security. He took control from the local authorities last week. This is his home he says. Here's what he said yesterday at a really emotional memorial service for Michael Brown.


CAPTAIN RON JOHNSON, MISSOUERI HIGHWAY PARTOL: I want to start off by talking Michael Brown's family. And I want you to know my heart goes out to you and I say that I'm sorry. I wear this uniform and I was just standing up here and say that I'm sorry. This is my neighborhood. You are my family, you are my friends and I am you.

And I will stand and protect you. I will protect your right to protest. When this is over, I'm going to go on my son's room, my black son, who wears his pants sagging, wear his hand cock to the sign, get tattoos on his arms but that's my baby. And we all ought to be thanking at Browns, for Michael. Because Michael is going to make it better for our sons, so they can be a better black men.

That -- so that they can be better for our daughters, so they can be better black women. Better for me so I can be a better black father and we know they're going to make our mamas even better than they are today.


COOPER: And we are looking that's from the memorial service on the right hand side of your screen, this is a live shot of some of the protest which are occurring right now. Several hundred people walking by down the mains street here on -- in Ferguson with their hands raised saying, "Hands up, don't shoot." A common reframe.

Joining us right now is Boyce Watkins, a professor at Syracuse University, also joining us Gloria Browne-Marshall of the John Jay College of Criminal Justice. I appreciate both of you being with us.

Gloria, you look at the federal government having been intervene in Ferguson on a number of levels and you say this is something that's emblematic of a bigger problem that's been going on really since slavery, explain what you mean by that?

GLORIA BROWNE-MARSHALL, JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: Well we know that the federal government realized after slavery ended in 1865 that the States and local jurisdictions might not in there with a very heavy possibility they would not protect the rights of black people and that's why we have the civil rights act that began in 1868-1871 and on.

And so the 1964 of the Rights Act that we're celebrating the 50th anniversary this year was preceded by a number of laws by the federal government to protect the right to black people. Intervention is this type of cases is not new. This is a long line and it's in -- looks like it's going to continue to be a long line of cases in which the federal government must intervene.

COOPER: And Boyce, (inaudible) you predicted that white Americans, black Americans would see this situation very differently. We now have a new poll from few research, it does show that very thing. When asked, the police response to the shooting had gone too far or it was just about right, whites nearly equally divided, only 65 percent of African-Americans said the police have gone too far in responding to the shootings aftermath, I'm wondering your reaction to that.

BOYCE WATKINS, PROFESSOR, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: The poll doesn't surprise me at all. Basically racism is a disease that really sinks into the very fabric of the foundation on which this country was founded. And unfortunately we've allowed the disease to fester because we kind of dealt with racism the way the Ferguson Police Department dealt with the shooting of Mike Brown.

We don't talk about it. There's no transparency in terms of dealing with it. We just sort of pretend like it didn't happen that it doesn't exist, that is not real. And what happens is whenever you do a poll like that the reality hits you right in the face. You find that whites have one reality, blacks have another reality.

When you look at the way whites and blacks look at police, you know, I can't say that I know a lot of black people who see the police as individuals there that are there to serve and protect them as supposed to individuals that are there to serve and protect the rich and keep them protected from the poor or to protect the whites from the blacks.

And so until we really deal with the issue, we're going to see the same poll over and over again.

COOPER: And Gloria, I mean, to Professor Watkins point, I mean, he had really a stunning the different experiences of many white Americans versus many African-Americans in this country even in this day in age in terms of attitudes towards the police, their experienced with police officers on the streets.

BROWNE-MARSHALL: Well, I remember the first time I saw my older brother, a person I revered put down on the ground by a police officer and told to lie there. It was devastating to me as a child. It was devastating to my little brother. I mean there is a different line we walk as African-Americans and even though we could have the degrees and teach at Universities, we also know that our experience could change in a flash that it doesn't matter how much money one has, how much education. Anyone of us in a community of collar can be Michael Brown. COOPER: You know, Boyce also, I mean, I keep thinking how we in, you know, news organizations we pay attention to this so often in the wake of an incident like this and then move on to something else and -- I mean, I was thinking about that a lot today how frustrating that is for many people, I was talking to today, the sense that nothing will really change, that the cameras will move on and this will happen again, a week from now, a day from now or a few hours from now.

WATKINS: Well, you know, think about it like this Anderson. Since Michael Brown was shot and killed by police, there have been several other black men across the country who been killed by police. This is a regular thing. This is a persistent problem, a black man is killed by police about once everyday in a half or something like that, so this is a real problem.

It's almost like going into your house and you're seeing all these roaches and you try to stump them one at a time. You know, if you really want to solve the roach problem in your house you need to really disinfect the entire house. And our country is a place where we deal with these incident one after the other after the other instead of dealing with them on an aggregate level, on a legislative level, we need to really dig into this because, guess what? There's going to be another Michael Brown in about a week. In fact, there'd been -- like I said it's several since he was killed.

COOPER: Boyce Watkins, it's always good to have you on, Gloria Browne-Marshall as well. Thank you very much.

Coming up next, a lot of update from where the National Guard have been assembling not too far from where I'm standing. We'll be right back.


COOPER: A late update now on the National Guard presents. David Mattingly is where they have been assembling. He joins us now. Dave, what's the scene there?

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson we literally have boots on the ground in Ferguson right now. Within the last couple of hours, we've seen several busses and about 10 Humvees with National Guardsmen arriving here at the command center. I'm just a little over a half mile from where you're standing right now.

Let's move in and take a closer look. This is what we're seeing, not exactly a high state of readiness for everybody here but they've taken up positions. They are creating checkpoints. This is where the staging area is for the state police and their job, according to the governor is to secure this area while the state police are out dealing with the crowds. You can see here, this is the command center where all the state police come together, take care or their planning and then go back out to work with the crowds.

Now, over here, with the National Guardsmen, it's hard to get a head count because they're so much milling about, you see groups of two, three, 10, occasionally. They all have their side arms. Most of them have indications that they are in peace, military police but at this point there doesn't seem to be much more of a job description for them other than to stay here and secure this location but so much talk has gone into the militarization of this operation. These troops in their uniforms, their military equipment just place right into that and we also have a helicopter going overhead, shining a spotlight down. So some activity here, everyone waiting to see what's going to happen.

COOPER: All right. David Mattingly let's hope it is a calm night here. The impact of the killing in Michael Brown, the subtend protest here in Ferguson has been not only emotional obviously but also financial. Ana Cabrera, how's that?

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Its wakes (ph) is one issue driving the protest in Ferguson, socioeconomic disparity maybe another causing an eruption of pain and frustration.

HEWITT NEARING, FERGUSON RESIDENT: If the people with the money and the power and influence don't patrol it, don't show any interest in it, it's going to continue.

CABRERA: But now life has become even harder for some, following the ongoing distraction and looting. Businesses are boarding up.

So you guys are closing up?

SERTHA ALFRED, ASSISTANT MANAGER, FEEL BEAUTY SUPPLY: Yeah, we're going to close up. We're going to (inaudible).

CABRERA: Until what?

ALFRED: (inaudible) we're going to gone.

CABRERA: This beauty supply store was broken into looted twice in one week.

ALFRED: (inaudible), you know, and now I have to listening. Feed my family in a different way.

CABRERA: Even shops that haven't been damage say business has taken a huge hit. One business owner tells us he has lost a thousand dollars, a day about 60 percent of his revenue since the unrest begun.

CHRISTOPHER JAMISON, FERGUSON RESIDENT: And there's been rumors that the business are going to leave, you know, that coffee values are going to go down.

CABRERA: One economic expert says the current business climate in Ferguson maybe reminiscing of what happened with the L.A. riots in the early 90s, where some business never rebuilt and unemployment skyrocketed.

WENDY PATRICK, SAN DIEGO STATE UNIVERSITY: Specially when you've smaller owned businesses as opposed to the big Walmarts and the other chain stores that as much as they might like to rebuild and as much as they might love their community. They're just not going to be economically able to survive and that's heartbreaking for lot of the resident.

BIANCA HUFF, FERGUSON RESIDENT: And we still have children here. We still have families here. So it's like you can't destroy everything here and we're here. We need -- we (inaudible) everything in our community.

CARBRERA: Young mother Bianca Huff who lives within eyesight of where Michael Brown was shot, feels here community spiraling out of control.

HUFF: That thing is going to be worst (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think it's going to get worst?

HUFF: I think it could get worst.

CABRERA: Huff worries about what this future holds for her family especially her three year old son Gregory (ph).

HUFF: You look at your kid is like, "No, I don't want my child to -- you don't have to also go through this as they get old. You wanted to be different."

CABRERA: Huff wonders, will her son be treated fairly as he grows up? Will her town be able to overcome the distraction? Will her community be able to bridge the racial and social economic divide that appears wider and deeper than ever? Ana Cabrera, CNN, Denver.


COOPER: Questions a lot of people in this community are asking tonight. We'll be right back with more from Ferguson.


COOPER: Well, thanks for joining us for this two hour edition of AC360. We will be back in Ferguson obviously tomorrow night. Our coverage though continues here in Ferguson over the next hour and all night long.

CNN tonight starts right now with Don Lemon.