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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Eric Frein Arrested; Kaci Hickox Fighting Quarantine Imposed by State of Maine; Ferguson Police Chief Not Going to Step Down
Aired October 30, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
We got breaking news tonight. It has been a long and frightening time coming, for week after week, he topped the FBI's most wanted list. Tonight, this man's entry on that list on the FBI Web site, it reads "captured." Eric Frein is his name and he is an alleged cop killer.
He dressed in order for himself like a member of the cold war era war soft pact (ph) and melted into the woods of northeastern Pennsylvania for weeks now. Tonight, nearly seven weeks after a deadly ambush that took the life of a Pennsylvania state trooper, the suspect, Eric Frein, finally has been apprehended. We are going to be bringing you the latest on how he managed for so long to elude one of the biggest manhunts in recent memory.
First though, Susan Candiotti joins us on new details on exactly how we he was captured.
So what do we know, Susan?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that he was taken into custody, discovered, Anderson, in an abandoned air strip in an area in the Pocono mountains between Henryville and Tannersville. Apparently, he was captured without one shot being fired. This is a very wooded area. That is how it is described to me, where he was found, by a team involving the -- including the U.S. marshal service as well as the Pennsylvania state troopers.
Now, again, this is an area that is a very wooded area. At some distance from where he originally was involved in that shooting, killing one trooper and injuring another. And as you know this has been an extensive manhunt, using hundreds and hundreds of troopers looking for him. And they even went so far as to cancel Halloween. People were so frightened that he remained on the loose.
So Anderson, a huge sigh of relief at this hour.
COOPER: Now, do we know what kind of weapons he still had on him? Because one of his weapons was found weeks ago.
CANDIOTTI: That is right. The word that our justice correspondent Pamela Brown is hearing is that he was armed at the time and that they recovered at least one weapon. Now, it is unclear whether that was the weapon that they found, the one that he was armed with or if that was another one. Unconfirmed reports that weapons, plural, were seized. But we're still looking into that, Anderson.
COOPER: And, are authorities telling you where he is now? What is next for him?
CANDIOTTI: The idea is, right now, that he will be taken back to, according to my sources, to the blooming grove police barracks. That's where the shooting originally happened sometime ago, back on September the 12th. And then next thing likely that would happen after that, of course, he will give a statement. We'll just have to see what happens next. And then, of course, he would be making a court appearance.
COOPER: And if authorities give any kind of a press conference occurs, we are going to bring that to you. Susan Candiotti, thank you.
CNN justice correspondent Evan Perez joins us with more.
So Evan, I mean, he was on the FBI's most wanted list. Hundreds of federal agents, part of his hunt, it is incredible that he was able to evade capture for some 48 days. Do we know how much he did that, how often he was on the move? I assume he was in camped out at this isolated old air strip the entire time?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That is right, Anderson. According to the sources we have been talking to, they found indications that he was preparing for this for some time. He is an excellent marksman, so that is reason why he could shoot for a long distance.
And it also was one reason why officers were being very careful about when they would search for him, for instance, not doing searches late at night. They also found indications that he had dug burrows so he could, perhaps, evade some of the night vision stuff that people could fly over and find him. So, there was all kinds of indications that he had prepared for some time to be able to hide out. And the fear was this was going to take months and months.
COOPER: Right. Wouldn't just be night vision equipment. They also had heat cameras that can tell body heat in the forest. So the idea of digging something underground would nullify that. I guess -- I mean, what, he is going to state charges? What about federal charges? Anything?
PEREZ: Well, the plan first, would be probably state charges, because obviously this is a Pennsylvania state officer that he killed and he wounded another. The federal government put him on this -- the FBI put him on this most-wanted list. So there are federal charges that could be brought against him.
The death penalty is very likely. State of Pennsylvania has the death penalty. And the federal death penalty also could apply in case those charges are brought.
COOPER: All right, Evan, I appreciate the update. Thanks. As the manhunt was going on, we did get a unique look at Eric Frein
from a documentary that he was actually he took part on. It is called Vietnam Appreciation Day, following a group of war re-enactors. And as we said, he was involved with the group.
I'm going to speak with one of the filmmakers a little bit later in the program. But right now, let's take a look at a clip from that documentary where you actually hear Eric Frein speaking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC FREIN, SUSPECT IN KILLING STATE TROOPER: It is a very laid-back event. Not that you know -- the guy who throughout did do a lot of planning for it. But I would -- if it was up to me I would stress it is not a reenactment. It is a living history. And it is not about reenacting battles or anything. It is about teaching the public and showing the equipment that was used, talking about the history of it all. So we have like nine (INAUDIBLE), and I was in charge of them. We had to find them. And we just walked around for two days straight. We never did find them. They found us a few times. I had one of these rifles (INAUDIBLE), I fired like 15 rounds total, the whole time, the whole two days. That was it. I mean, they had like 60 pounds worth of equipment on their back. Food, water.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They never took it off?
FREIN: They never took it off. He couldn't smoke -- every time he tried to smoke, one of my patrols would come close. They would have to stop and just stay real still. In experiencing what he did, you just get an idea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: He is very proud of his abilities, obviously, there in the forest reenacting combat.
Joining me now, CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes, and on the phone, Shane Hobel, founder of the Mountains Scout Survival School.
Tom, it is interesting. I mean, what do you make of the fact that he was able to stay out there so long? Is it a testament to his abilities or just the -- or also the danger for searchers in trying to find a guy like this who is prepared, perhaps, for weeks or months for something like that and could easily attack, shoot people, trying to hunt for him?
THOMAS FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Actually, that is true. Both things are true, Anderson, starting with your second point. You know, he would have been able to shoot additional police officers from hundreds of yards away without them being able to see them, with them using cover of the forest. Places where they crossed a road or were gathering to discuss their search patterns in a wide open area. So he easily could have killed many, many more police officers after the initial killing that he did. So that is one thing that made the search more difficult, to go more slowly to try to be more cautious in their approach to this in very dense woods.
As far as the second thing, I think from the beginning, he pro- positioned supplies and canned food and things like that. Water, he would have been able to survive like he did for this amount of time. But at a certain point, if he needs to live off the land and cook an animal, he is going to make fire and that could be detected by the infrared sensors. If he has the underground little caves that he dug for himself, yes, that will evade the infrared sensors and it give him warmth. But it is not going to be adequate shelter in the long run when it starts to becoming sub-zero weather with winter approaching.
So the days of him being able to stay out there and live off the land and lived un-zone were becoming increasingly difficult. And like the Eric Rudolph case a couple of years ago, he was caught when -- if being out for over a year, he was caught when came into town at 2:00 in the morning to run its through a dumpster looking for food.
COOPER: Right, and he apparently stole food over, you know, frequently, over the course of that year.
FUENTES: I understand, we are just getting image right now. This is the first time image that we seeing on, seeing for the first time so I'm showing it to you, obtained by WBRE, affiliate, appears to be Eric Frein in the back of a law enforcement vehicle being taken where it looks like he has some sort of an injury to his nose. As we're looking at this, we're trying to zoom in on that as much as we can, it if we're able to.
Shane, how difficult is it to survive for this length of time without pre-positioning supplies?
SHANE HOBEL, FOUNDER, THE MOUNTAINS SCOUT SURVIVAL SCHOOL (via phone): Well, you know, Tom brings up a point. Tree-positioning clearly was his plan. It is a big indication of how much he is lacking in the primitive skill set, in the bush craft skill set.
Clearly, the more bush craft and primitive skills you practice, the less gear and need to go into some of these areas and get some of that resource. And don't forget, you know, our ancestors, and in the museum of natural history, we had examples of these shelters by which you can stay very warm even without a fire in the coldest of temperatures. Even these types of shelters can shroud you from those thermal images.
But again, it is an example of how much he knows or how much he doesn't know. These things, these cash that he has on the landscape or these little runs in and out of the woods, is clearly an indication that was his umbilical cord.
And just like Tom said, you know, Eric Robert Rudolph of the 1996 summer games, he was caught basically dumpster diving. You know, he was running out of resources, he was desperate, and during those desperate times we know what happens here. We make these mistakes.
COOPER: So Shane, even he didn't -- he was not able to use fire and as Tom was pointing out, they have, you know, infrared cameras in planes or helicopters searching for him, he wouldn't be able to. You're saying you can avoid infrared, even by making a shelter out of what, leaves and mud and dirt and things?
HOBEL: That is true. Yes, you know, using the forest debris in the urban environment, our insulation comes from a rolled up newspaper or crumpled up newspaper, and this is what we've learned.
Out there in the Bush, the same thing applies with the debris. When you looking at the debris hut, a classic first level shelter, this hut is effective 90 percent of the time and in 90 percent of the places on the planet. And the cold weather version of this idea is the igloo because it is very warm inside even a very cold dome. So yes, it is very capable of staying warm in the landscape.
COOPER: And again, we're just kind to zooming in on this picture. This is the first image that we have just been getting, what believed to be Eric Frein.
I mean, Tom, it is hard to tell what kind of shape he is. Clearly, it has some sort of injury or looks like blood or cut on the nose. That looks you know, I guess it is hard to read into a picture of a face shot. But he doesn't look too much the worse for wear, he doesn't particularly dirty like he has been living in mud for weeks at a time.
FUENTES: No, he doesn't. And you know, we can't tell from that picture what kind of shape he is in. But you know, obviously, I would like to clarify one thing. The FBI, the most-wanted list is to assist both in Federal fugitive case as both state and local, also. And the value of that is worldwide advertising and a $100,000 reward to whoever provides information leading to the capture of the suspect.
So in this particular case, the fact it is an FBI reward doesn't make it an FBI case. It is still the state of Pennsylvania case. However, my understanding in talking to some people tonight is it is the U.S. marshals that deserve the credit for actually making the find and capturing him.
COOPER: And Tom, I mean, for a guy who is by all accounts very skilled with firearm, you know, killed a state trooper from a great distance and apparently had multiple weaponry on him. But we don't know the exact details, one of his guns I think was an AK-47 already found, the fact he was captured without incident, I mean, it will be fascinating to know the details of exactly how they got him in those hours and or minutes.
FUENTES: Well, that part will be, for sure. But also, I would be more interested in why he didn't kill again. That he went into a completely evasive mode for these last six weeks. He could have easily killed dozens of officers and run all around those woods for a long time. And had he had the tactical advantage with a scope, sniper or rifle and cover all over the place, cover and concealment and the officers had to be exposed in conducting the search. So I think that is a miracle in this case that we don't have more dead police officers. And it is a testament to the marshals and the discipline of their agents that they did captured him alive and didn't try to kill a cop killer. COOPER: Yes. Tom, stick around. Shane, as well.
Up next, just who is this guy? Who is Eric Frein? What do we know about him? What makes him tick? What authorities say made him kill? That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Our breaking news tonight, the man suspected of killing a state trooper, Eric Frein, arrested by U.S. marshals caught hiding in an abandoned airport hangar in the Pocono mountains of Pennsylvania.
Just moments ago, we got this photo from affiliate WBRE as believe to the Frein in back of an official vehicle. Apparently, the first picture of him in custody, appears to have some kind of injury to his nose there you can see.
CNN's Evan Perez just got a hold of some new information. He is joining us now. What have you learned, Evan?
PEREZ: Well, Anderson, we're told he was caught without incident. He was arrested without incident by the U.S. marshals and some Pennsylvania state officers who were there at the scene.
And you know, one of the interesting things about that, is that, you know, it appears that they must have surprised him. And the fear you know, all along was that this would end in some kind of a big shootout. And the fact that this was done without incident. And by the way, he was caught with at least two weapons. One was a rifle and one was a pistol. So he had something with him that he could have fired if -- if he was challenged and it appears that these officers were able to catch him by surprise and put him under arrest.
COOPER: And originally, he also had, I believe, an AK-47 if my memory serves me correct. That had been found weeks ago, relatively early on in the search.
PEREZ: Right. That was found weeks. And they found other signs, too, of where he, you know, he had there were some soiled diapers, they found some of the reading material that he had left behind. He had left signs of, you know, where he was hiding out. And this area where he was found was an area that has been combed over by the U.S. marshals, by the FBI, by the ATF, by the Pennsylvania state police. So they have been all over this area. He was moving quite frequently according to law enforcement officials. So that is one reason he was able to stay a step ahead of them.
COOPER: I'm going to leave the details on the soiled diapers, I'm not going to quiz you on that one. Evan, thank you for the update. We are going to have more, really, throughout on this in this hour and also on for the next hour.
Well, Frein's capture and the manhunt, which at time seemed like it might now end for a very long time. Of course, the case of Eric Rudolph comes to mind. During that time, we learned a lot an eye- opening detail about who Eric Frein is. Jason Carroll tonight puts back.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pennsylvania police commissioner Frank Noonan describes him as a man with a mean streak, who has separatist- leaning, a love for guns and the hatred for law enforcement.
FRANK NOONAN, COMMISSIONER, PENNSYLVANIA POLICE: His head is shaved very closely on the sides and with long hair on top. It is wider than a Mohawk. He was last seen with no facial hair and was wearing a brown windbreaker, khaki shorts and sneakers carrying a dark green back pack.
CARROLL: They also determined Frein belongs to a military simulation group known as An aero soft gun team. This particular group reenacted the role of eastern European soldiers during the cold war and simulated combat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In his current frame of mind, Frein now appears to have simulated the role in life.
CARROLL: Investigators said he was socially withdrawn and had made angry statements about police to people he knew.
The suspect lived here with his parents. The suspect's father telling investigators that two weapons are missing from the house, an AK-47 and a rifle.
Investigators found a book in Frein's bedroom titled sniper training and employment. His father, an army veteran, told police he trained his son to shoot and that he does not miss. These pictures from Frein's high school yearbook from his senior year show him on the school's rifle team. His quote, "I feel that we could have done a lot better in matches this year if it was not for the fact in anticipation for the rifle team being canceled."
Frein's love of guns and the military continued into adulthood. He is well known for walking around the small community of Canadensis in full military uniforms.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was a very serious young man. He always wore green. I always thought he was on the service.
CARROLL: Elaine did not want to give her last name. She runs a garden store in town and says she has known the family for ten years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was devastated. And it didn't surprise me, I guess.
CARROLL: Why didn't it surprise you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess because my children are so outgoing. You know what I mean? When my kids meet you, hello, how are you? They shake your hand. They, you know, they're very outgoing. This young man was not. And I do think that, you know, -- but the mother is very sweet. I don't know the father.
CARROLL: When you say he was not outgoing, was he withdrawn --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he was very quiet and he did not speak when he came in.
CARROLL: Jason Carroll, CNN, Blooming Grove, Pennsylvania.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: It is fascinating stuff. U.S. marshals caught up to Eric Frein in a part of Pennsylvania that even most Pennsylvanians might be hard pressed to find on a map, surrounding it, hundreds of thousands of acres in which to hide and keep people better equip for baiting capture in someone like Frein.
Again, if you're just joining us, that is the first image, we believe of Eric Frein, at the back law enforcement vehicle after being apprehended with some sort of an injury. There you see to his nose. We don't know have more on his condition.
More on surviving thought on the run. We're joined on the phone by a former Navy SEAL Cade Courtley. Also back with us is CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes. And also Shane Hobel, the founder of the Mountain Scout Survival School.
Cade, it is really interesting to me, and I don't think a lot of people realize this, because of the danger for law enforcement personnel in searching for this guy they were really only doing daylight searches, right?
CADE COURTLEY, FORMER NAVY SEAL (via phone): Yes, that is what I understand. And look, let's face it. If this guy knows that area and six weeks ago the average temperature was 60, 65 degrees, plenty of food and water, yes, of course, the bunker down during the day and move at night. And that doesn't surprise me. The difference is, in the last six weeks, temperatures dropped about 35 degrees. Dropping below zero at night. And that is going to wear on you. And that is probably why this guy started to seek shelter.
And the other interesting thing is the picture you're showing. I'm seeing a guy who has got a relatively clean face, and fairly clean shaven, which leads me to believe this guy probably was not roughing it that much more in couple of weeks.
COOPER: Well, that was my point early on, Cade. When I'm talking to Tom Fuentes, I mean, just from his face it doesn't look like he has been, you know, living in bunker or covering himself with mud every night. And this is another picture from a slightly different angle from WNEP. Other than the injury to the nose, I mean, he looks pretty cleaned up.
COURTLEY: Yes, I expected to see this guy looking like a Taliban fighter. Not like a guy who is very, very (INAUDIBLE).
COOPER: It is really interesting.
Shane, what do you make of the fact that, I mean, just based on these images that we are seeing, and also to Cade's point, that the chances are of him wanting to seek some sort of a more concrete structure, like this abandoned air field, really just to get out of the elements as much as he can as the temperature is getting colder.
HOBEL: Clearly. You know, I perfectly agree with Cade. You know, it is -- it has dropped. The fact that he is so clean, has been seen skirting along the suburban areas before, and like spokes on a wheel, he will go to various camps. But then is making his way back out. Clearly, it has been swept before by the police or marshals. And he is getting his resources. So he is staying, he is skipping through this suburban environment in the woods.
If you Google map this, if you scan back, you will see how many thousands of acreage actually surround these suburban areas. So it is very easy for him to come in and out. And you know, again, it is a proof positive that his skills, his bush craft skills, his skills are not up to par where it is absolutely necessary for him to be coming in and out of these areas.
COOPER: Cade, if he was really good like a Navy SEAL out in the forest environment, could he be in -- you know, on an acre that is being swept over by law enforcement? And still be missed?
COURTLEY: Yes, he could. But I tell you what, I agree with Shane. I don't think it is -- we will find out and I think we'll find out fairly quickly, this is a guy who wants first blood numerous times. He had been fanaticizing (ph) this. But the fantasy ends when you start doing with hypothermia, exhaustion, dehydration, starvation like and sweep deprivation.
I mean, the games is over. I think we'll find out he is not nearly as good as he thinks maybe he is.
COOPER: Yes. And I mean, as you said, I mean, he has no actual military experience. He is basically was playing war with --
COURTLEY: He fights with air rifles. If he was really that good, he would have joined up.
COOPER: Right. I think that is a good point.
So I'm understanding Susan Candiotti, our correspondent, has just gotten some new information about how he was actually apprehended.
Susan, what have you learned?
CANDIOTTI: Hi, Anderson. I'm told by a law enforcement source that during the process of taken him into custody, he was taken down into the ground, put down there, so that he couldn't hurt anybody when they took him into custody. Again, no shots were fired.
The way they found him, I'm told, is that they were in the process, the U.S. marshal's service special ops team was in the process of clearing the area. That also included Intel that they had and some eyewitness accounts and clearing one of the many areas they were in the process of doing in the Poconos in the area, to try to look through every area to see where they could find him and this time, they did.
COOPER: Susan, do you know, and if you don't that is fine. But do you know approximately how far the place he was actually found is from where the shooting took place?
CANDIOTTI: Yes, not precisely. I think it is some distance, however, from there. That is what I was hearing. And I also heard just like my colleague, Evan Perez did, that two weapons were recovered where he was hiding.
COOPER: OK.
Tom Fuentes, I mean, something like an abandoned air field, I would imagine that had been searched before. I think Cade, it was mentioned that he had had been, and maybe kind of doubled back to that area. Because that would seem an obvious place to look?
FUENTES: No, that's true, Anderson, and that is the problem. And in a case like this, as you have, you clear an area, and then you move on to the next area and he could be move back to an area you just cleared. So you have to constantly be going over and redoing the areas that you previously searched.
And there would be many abandoned buildings. There would be many homes that people might have had on vacation. And you know, he might have had access to somebody's home or somebody's vacation home that is in the woods that he could go into and have running water and be able to shave and keep up his appearance like this.
So yes, I was very surprised to see him as clean-shaven and, you know, and his hair combed and in pretty good shape that way. You know, pretty well groomed. You wouldn't think so if you're surviving in the woods. But we don't know how long he has been indoors, what kind of indoor facility he has been in and how many of those facilities over the last few weeks.
COOPER: And Cade, Tom raises an interesting point. And I want to ask you about it if you're only searching during the day and you have cleared an area say of a couple of -- I don't know, you know, a couple of years or so and then you pull out, you leave. It is not like you're camping out there. For law enforcement camping out there for security reasons. Could then, they could perhaps be targeted easily at night. Then how do you guarantee somebody doesn't just come back into the area you just cleared?
COURTLEY: Well, you don't. And look, I do not want to sound like I'm being negative against law enforcement. They lost a guy, another one was shot at. And a cop killer, they were looking for him. That said, though, absolutely. Once you cover from ground and then you step away you have to cover it again to make sure they haven't come back here. This guy maybe was hiding in the woods at night and during the day and then at night he went back and shaved and took a shower. We'll find this out. But you know, this is the best possible ending to this. You got him, no shots fired. You know, Happy Halloween, folks in Pennsylvania.
COOPER: They're able to now have Halloween.
And I mean, Shane, that is a real sign of just how seriously people were taken this and how not just for law enforcement but just citizens out there. In fact, they're canceling Halloween. This guy could have popped up anywhere really at any time, took some shots at people whether they be law enforcement searching for him or people trick-or- treating and faded back into the wilderness.
HOBEL: Absolutely, talk about timing. You're talking about the time where everybody -- it's socially acceptable to wear costumes out there. So, you know, good job, law enforcement. I'm happy that Pennsylvania does get to celebrate Halloween. And you know, this is a job well done.
COOPER: Shane and Cade and Tom, Susan Candiotti, also just stick around.
As we mentioned earlier, Eric Frein appeared in a documentary about Vietnam war re-enactors. I will speak with the filmmaker about what this was really like. Here is a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FREIN: (INAUDIBLE), I would stress that it is not a reenactment. It is a living history and it is not about reenacting battles or anything. It is about teaching the public and showing the equipment that was used, talking about the history of it all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back, we're continuing to learn more every minute about the capture of FBI's most wanted fugitive Eric Frein. A moment ago Susan Candiotti reported that the alleged killer of a state trooper seen here in a new photo. He was spotted and captured just as searcher for clearing area of an old airfield. As we mentioned at the top of broadcast, Frein belonged to a little known and rather off-beat Brotherhood of War re-enactors. They don't recreate Civil War battles or Revolutionary War moments, or even World War II campaigns. The uniforms they dress up in date back to the Cold War and the Vietnam War. Many represent America's old adversaries in a Warsaw Pact. Warsaw Pact uniforms, Warsaw Pact weapons like the AK-47 that Frein took with him into the woods, apparently taking from his parents' house. Again, it's a little known subculture, but one that filmmakers Patrick Bresnan and Ivete Lucas gained access to even speaking to Eric Frein for their documentary, Vietnam Appreciation Day. Here is another clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC FREIN: My name is Eric Frein, and today (INAUDIBLE) Vietnam Remembrance Day. And what we have is a display of, you know, the United States Army fighting method of the time period. And you know, it is the Remembrance Day for the veterans. And we commemorate them by talking about what they did. And, what I saw today, was initially there was a lot of people here, a lot of spectators that came, but unfortunately we got here late. We didn't finish unpacking for all the spectators, finish walking through - so maybe tomorrow, which will be Sunday, more people will be here. And we can educate them a little bit about what the United States fighting men did in Southeast Asia between 1965 and 1975.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you feel having been to a few of these, that the reenactment went today? Can you give us a commentary on that?
FREIN: The reenactment we saw today was -- it's hard to call it really a reenactment. A bunch of guys went out and popped off some blanks. Blanking (INAUDIBLE) from the right falls (ph). Anyway, it is really - it's a remembrance day, it's to commemorate the veterans, it's not really to play Army, to basically enact a fantasy I mean that you really don't do anything by that with the public as far as teaching them anything. It's not Vietnam, we're in the middle of Pennsylvania, we are in the Revolutionary War for -- it's not a place to really to try to reenact the battle. It is just my personal opinion, though, so otherwise the reenactment, you have to ask the spectators and see what they thought. Because they might have - more objective opinion than mine become a little bit biased, because I've been doing this for eight years.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: That is Eric Frein. Patrick Bresnan, the filmmaker joins us now by phone. Patrick, it is good to - talk to you again. It's really interesting listening to Eric Frein talk there. I mean there is an arrogance to him, you know, sort of looking down at the quality of other war re-enactors as if he is somehow, you know, the number one war re-enactor and has a higher standards than anybody else.
PATRICK BRESNAN: Definitely. I think Eric really related to the actual soldier. Where a lot of re-enactors couldn't become soldiers and they're more of living historians. Eric related to soldiers who had come back from wars and maybe gotten a raw deal. And I think this is why you see he is bent against law enforcement, he is bent against government. He really identifies with soldiers that got a raw deal. And he had something to prove. And you definitely hear that in that clip.
COOPER: Which is strange, because I mean, he doesn't have a military background himself. He is essentially playing dress-up and going around shooting blanks, which is - I mean that's what he was doing during this war in Iraq reenacting, which is what he is critical of the other people he was working with for doing when in fact that is exactly what he is doing. It is not as if he is himself a veteran.
BRESNAN: No, definitely. What Eric did in these war reenactments, in private, was he did tacticals and he went into the woods and simulated battle. At this particular event he refused to reenact the war for veterans because he knew that it could possibly be traumatic for them. He was much more sensitive than your average re-enactor, in regard to flashbacks and just giving the veterans a good experience. And that is what you're hearing there. He didn't want to reenact the war in a public place.
COOPER: What did he seem like to you? I mean, how did he strike you?
BRESNAN: He definitely struck me as an oddball in the sense that he didn't want to mix with the other living historians there. He saw his brand of military understanding or military reenactment as being much more refined. As in he actually read the books. He didn't just watch TV programming and movies. A lot of reenactors are -- you know, they are living their passion through movies. Eric was actually reading books and studying military history.
COOPER: Do -- what did you think when you had heard that not only had he allegedly shot a state trooper but that he was - had kind of faded into the forest?
BRESNAN: Well, it definitely was shocking. When we interviewed him he spoke about events where he had gone into the forest for days at a time. So we really thought that he was living his fantasy. It wasn't - it was no longer a reenactment. There were real bullets. There were real people after him. Gone from obscurity, living in his parents' basement, to being a real fugitive who would actually shot someone and have people shooting at him. So that he was definitely living a fantasy.
COOPER: Which is essentially what law enforcement had also said in those early days, after the initial shooting that this had sort of become reality for him. It was interesting to me also to learn that he was also seen regularly around his neighborhood dressed up as a Warsaw Pact soldier.
BRESNAN: Yeah, it is very scary. I think we -- with all of the terrorism that we have overseas and the fears of ISIS and al Qaeda, we've somehow lost track that there are people within our own society that are on the fringes and they do have weapons and they are dangerous. Because they're not mentally healthy. Eric Frein is not a mentally healthy person and he should have never had these weapons. And unfortunately, he was allowed to kind of go too far with his hobby. And I think we're so scared of these threats from overseas that sometimes we don't realize that there are mentally ill people in our everyday environment like Eric.
COOPER: Well, Patrick, I appreciate you being on again. Patrick Bresnan, thank you so much. And it's again fascinating to see Eric Frein talking in that film.
More breaking details on the capture of Eric Frein. We also have perspective from our panel law enforcement and survival experts. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: More developments in the capture of Eric Frein in a moment. But late developments tonight on Ebola and the escalating standoff between Maine's governor and Kaci Hickox, the Ebola fighting nurse who battled quarantine measures in New Jersey. And one is now doing the same back home in rural northern Maine. This morning, Hickox and her boyfriend hit wheel - went for a bike ride, breaking her quarantine. And why not, she says, she is not ill and is twice now tested negative for Ebola. Reporters clearly didn't mind getting close to her. Countless public health experts say she poses no threat whatsoever to the community, and late today after negotiations between her attorneys and state officials over altering the quarantine broke down, Maine's Governor Republican Paul LePage took a hard line.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. PAUL LEPAGE (R) MAINE: I don't want her within three feet of anybody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happens if she does? Is there any legal ramifications that ....
LEPAGE: Let's put it this way. I'm going to use the legal provisions to the fullest extent that the law allows me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Unclear exactly what that means. He also said that Ms. Hickox could come out of her house, and that it would sound like a veiled threats in quote, "We can't protect her when she does that." Which is confusing, because right after that he says that the state troopers outside her house where there precisely to protect her, so why that protection would vanish when she walks out the door is unclear, and in any case, protection from whom? Late today, White House spokesman Josh Earnest said the federal CDC officials had been in touch with their main counterparts, but that President Obama who was actually in Maine today campaigning for Governor LePage's opponent, would not get directly involved in the case. The president, said Earnest, believes that this is Maine's decision to make, but hopes it will be made on the scientific merits. More on the science and the politics in a moment. First, the local reaction from Alexandra Field.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CATHERINE JANDREAU, LOCAL BUSINESS OWNER: This is a small community, and if one person gets sick, you know, everybody gets sick right away. And I think that is the big thing, it's just fear.
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fort Kent, Maine, may be a small town but there is no shortages of opinions on Kaci Hickox and the state's quarantine.
SOLENGE BARD: She should go on quarantine, because it scares me. It scares people. Being affected by it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is only transferable by bodily fluids, I guess we don't really have anything to worry about if we don't come in contact with her.
FIELD: These four tenths of pretty quiet town are just 4,000 people here, this is a logging community. It sits on Maine's border with Canada. But the low-key atmosphere here all changed on Monday, that's when Nurse Kaci Hickox came home.
KACI HICKOX: And I'm so thankful to be home with my partner, Dad.
FIELD: The pizza shop owner Becky Lawn says she is not sure what she would do if Hickox came into her restaurant. But she is backing Hickox, and is, in fact, proud of her decision to defy the state's request.
BECKY LAWN, LOCAL BUSINESS OWNER: Fort Kent has a very small, neat community, very family oriented, and I think she has got a lot of support here.
FIELD: Both support and criticism.
JIM MAJKA, NEIGHBOR OF KACI HICKOX: We don't need this here. It is a simple thing. Stay in the quarantine until it is over and we're good.
JANDREAU: I don't want to bring it home. I'm sorry, but I think she should know better, because she is a nurse, a health professional.
FIELD: A reaction some people believe is simply driven by the unknown.
APRIL HAFFORD, WORKS IN FORT KENT: I think it is an overreaction in a way. I mean, you know, people are scared of what they don't know about.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And we should point out again, Alexandra, Kaci Hickox does not have Ebola, she has not tested possible for Ebola, she's therefore not contagious at all. Alexandra joins us now. So, I understand Kaci's boyfriend spoke out just a short time ago. What did he say tonight?
FIELD: Yes, he came out here and talk to reporters and addressed a couple of issues. First of all, he talked about what they are doing inside, eating pizza, watching "The Avengers," if you are wondering. He also talked about the frustration that this quarantine - he says he's missing his classes at the university. He has to call in and listen by phone. And he did talk about that much disgust bike ride, he says that he and Kaci are members of this community. They stayed on the trails, they didn't go into town, they didn't' go to stores, they didn't go talking to people. He says they don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable, but they also don't believe that they can in any way make anyone sick. Anderson, what he didn't talk about was the legal threats from the governor or what the response from Kaci could be.
COOPER: So, he is not allowed to go to his school by school authorities?
FIELD: That is right. He says that this has been explained to him as a voluntary quarantine. But at the same time he is telling us the university is telling him that he can't be in class. So the question of this word voluntary certainly comes up. It's something they've both been experiencing. For now, he says he is being told that he can turn in his assignments next month, follow along on the phone, I guess, is best he can, but it's not an ideal situation for him.
COOPER: Alexandra Field, I appreciate the update. Thanks.
Up next, late details on the capture of Eric Frein and the CNN exclusive Ferguson, Missouri's police chief on reports that he'll be forced out to resign and more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where does it stand? Are you going to resign?
THOMAS JACKSON, FERGUSON, MISSOURI POLICE CHIEF: No, I'm going to stay and see this through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back, we're continuing to learn more about the capture of fugitive Eric Frein, an update shortly, but first a very different law enforcement story. Few public figures have spent more time on camera arguably to less effect than Ferguson, Missouri police chief Thomas Jackson, his appearances in the wake of his officer, Darren Wilson fatally shooting unarmed teenager Michael Brown done little to calm the waters. This time, Chief Jackson spoke exclusively to our Jason Carroll. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JACKSON: We are just trying to stay focused on the job at hand.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Staying focused and staying on the job, at least for now, Ferguson's embattled police chief, Tom Jackson, says he wants to stay.
JACKSON: I want to stay and see this through. I know there is a lot of politics going on behind the scenes. And it's - it's ...
CARROLL: Now, what do you mean by that? Politics, going on - are you talking about pressure coming from the federal government? What are we talking about here?
JACKSON: It is not pressure coming my way. I report to the city manager, period. And as long as he and the counsel support me then I intend to stay.
CARROLL: There are a number of people in the community who say it is time for a change. It is time for you to step down. Why stay?
JACKSON: I do have a lot of support in the community. And as I said, this is my job. This happened on my watch. And I intend to see it through. CARROLL (voice over): One of those apparently not behind Chief
Jackson is U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, who after seeing weeks of unrest between protesters and police said a wholesale change is needed.
(on camera): It sounds to me like there is not a lot of confidence there. And I'm wondering how does that sit with you?
JACKSON: Well ...
CARROLL: I mean, that has got to make you angry.
JACKSON: I just think he has not been informed.
CARROLL: You're choosing your words very carefully.
JACKSON: There has been a lot of change. There has been a lot of very positive things that have happened. And you and I have talked about those. And there is a lot of positive things that are ongoing. So when you use a word like "wholesale change," I think actually that is not choosing words carefully. Needs to be more specific.
CARROLL: So, do you think the attorney general is out of touch? How would you define?
JACKSON: I don't know. I know that wholesale change is a very broad brush. And you know, I wonder if that means we get rid of our community policing programs. Is that what we do - is that what he means?
CARROLL: I think it would be fair to say that he - at the very least means a new police chief in Ferguson.
JACKSON: I can't speak for him, but if that's what he means, that's what he should say.
CARROLL (voice over): Jackson acknowledged some mistakes were made after Officer Darren Wilson shot Michael Brown. Namely that Brown's body was left outside on the street for four hours.
JACKSON: But in the end, it was way too long.
I'm truly sorry ...
CARROLL: Jackson apologized to Brown's family, but the unrest here has continued. Ferguson is predominantly black, its police department mostly white. Long-standing feelings of mistrust now spilling into anger on the streets.
(on camera): People don't seem to be talking to each other.
JACKSON: I think a lot of progress has been made. Maybe it's just not out there in the general public, but here locally it is.
CARROLL: That is one of the first times I can say I've heard from an official out here that progress is being made. You really feel as though progress is being made?
JACKSON: Yes, I do. Yes, I do. I think the problem, though, is that it is being overshadowed by the ongoing protests.
CARROLL (voice over): More protests are expected when the grand jury announces its decision whether or not there is evidence to indict Officer Darren Wilson for shooting Brown, who was unarmed but who had struggled with Wilson after the officer stopped him and his friend.
(on camera): What do you think will happen if the grand jury decides not to indict officer Darren Wilson, then what?
JACKSON: I think we'll see more protests. You know, I think we'll probably see a lot of anger.
CARROLL: I think a lot of people are -- are already predicting that the grand jury will come to a decision not to issue any charges at all against Darren Wilson. And that this community will react in some ways, violently. And the thought is that the police, specifically you, are not in a position at this point to be able to control what inevitably might happen.
JACKSON: We're talking a lot about how we're going to address that. And it will be a unified command again. We'll have, you know, the St. Louis County Police Department you know, working with the highway patrol to -- and all the municipalities to put together a comprehensive plan to address issues as they pop up.
CARROLL (voice over): Jackson says police are prepared to protect peaceful demonstrators, but will also do everything they can to prevent looting like they saw in the early days of the protests here. He's also hoping more communication with those in the community will help going forward. In the meantime, he will follow his supporters who gave him this advice.
JACKSON: Stay, finish the job.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Jason Carroll joins us now. Interesting to hear from him. What does he think is positive that's going on?
CARROLL: Well, one of the things, Anderson, he talked about, he said over the past few weeks he has had a number of conversations with African-Americans here in Ferguson, community leaders. He said those conversations have been positive. He also mentioned that some of those African-Americans who are on the police force here in Ferguson have been promoted. A lot of these types of things, he says, are not focused on by the media and not reported on. But he says it is happening. And in fact, Anderson, he says he's heard from some members of the African-American community who actually say they support him. But I have to tell you a number of people that we've met out here on the streets say they like the chief, they think that perhaps he has been trying to do a good job. But they say he's in above his head and they feel as no change is needed here on the ground. COOPER: All right, we'll see. Jason Carroll, thanks. Back to our breaking news, just got us some new video of the police motorcade bringing fugitive Eric Frein into the facility where he'll be initially processed, it comes from our affiliate WNEP. They are also late to tell about his capture. For that, I want to quickly get back to Susan Candiotti. Susan?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, after being about seven weeks on the run, Anderson, finally, Eric Frein taken down to the ground by the U.S. Marshal Service special operations group after all that searching. Frein was found at an abandoned airport and according to one official, this was between rather - he was seen walking towards a hangar at that air strip. Walking along that air strip. Now, he was taken down without any incident at all. No shots were fired. However, law enforcement did get from him two weapons were recovered. Along with some knives, a pistol and a rifle. So now you know he is being booked.
COOPER: Susan Candiotti. Thanks very much. That does it for us, stay with CNN throughout the night for the latest on this story. We're going to see you again at 11 p.m. Eastern time. Anthony Bourdain, "Parts Unknown" starts now. See you at 11:00.
