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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Sixth Night of Protest Across the Country; NYC Police Union Pres. Patrick Lynch Speaks Out; No Police Officers Charged in Albuquerque in Three Decades; Police in Need of Cardinal Changes; Eric Adams on Police Stereotypes; Failed Attempt of Freeing Hostages in Yemen; Onboard with Royal Family
Aired December 08, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, thanks for joining us.
Over the last 24 hours in cities across the country protesters have shut down streets calling an end to killings by police officers making their voices heard from New York to California. Most were peaceful. In Berkeley, California, though, demonstrations turned violent overnight. In the nation's capitol in rush hour protesters blocked the streets trying to shutdown intersections.
And in Brooklyn, New York, tonight the crowds have been growing outside Barclays Center where a Nets basketball game began about a half hour ago. Britain's prince William and his wife Kate are at the game. Lebron James and others are taking the protesters message to the court during their warm up wearing t-shirts that read "I can't breathe," the last words that Eric Garner spoke while he was being held down and handcuffed.
Over the past several days, we have seen other athletes in other sports show their solidarity with Eric Garner and the protesters. Our Deborah Feyerick is outside the Barclays Center with the latest.
What's the scene there, Deborah?
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Anderson, we can tell you that when the crowd, one of the organizers told everyone that the players were wearing those "I can't breathe" t-shirts, everyone began cheering. That was right after they staged a massive die-in right in the middle of Clappers and Atlantic .
You can see the crowd just behind me here a couple hundred people. It has dwindled a little bit over the last half hour. It's definitely getting much colder, but these are very determined protesters, and they're here to make sure that their voices are heard. I spoke to one man from Tennessee, another from Rhode Island. They said they are speaking for Michael Brown. They are speaking for Eric Garner. The two men involved in police-related deaths who were not indicted, the two police officers. You can hear them saying "our streets." they launched a huge die-in here outside Barclays Center, another at the busiest intersection in Brooklyn.
But they're very determined. And you can hear them right now making sure -- you've got protesters from Trayvon Martin organization, you've got protesters from Occupy Wall Street and then a lot of folks who simply live in Brooklyn, saw what was going on and simply want to be part of this. You really feel that sense of people wanting to be part of something much larger. I can tell you there's a police helicopter in the air, obviously --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can I ask a question?
FEYERICK: -- and they're keeping an eye on everybody who is demonstrating here. Back to you, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Deborah Feyerick, thanks very much. We'll obviously continue to watch the protests to see whether that becomes mobile as they have for several nights particularly the end of last week.
Now to a CNN exclusive. Shortly after the grand jury's decision was announced New York mayor Bill de Blasio spoke with obvious emotion about Eric Garner's death. He also talked about racism and he didn't mince words. For those who may not know, mayor de Blasio's wife is African-American. They have two biracial children. And here's what he said about his teenage son, Dante.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK: Charlaine (ph) and had to talk to Dante for years about the dangers that he may face. We've had to literally train him as families have all over this city for decades in how to take special care in any encounter has with the police officers who are there to protect him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, here's how Police Union president Pat Lynch responded to those remarks in particular.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICK LYNCH, PRESIDENT, POLICE UNION: What police officers felt yesterday after that press conference is that they were thrown under the bus, that they were out there doing a difficult job in the middle of the night protecting the rights of those to protest, protecting our sons and daughters and the mayor was behind microphones like this throwing them under the bus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Mr. Lynch also wrote an op-ed in the "New York Post" blasting the mayor for other remarks he's made. And for the record, the mayor has praised the police department's response in the ongoing protests over the grand jury's decision.
I spoke to Pat Lynch a short time ago in an exclusive CNN interview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: You said the mayor has thrown police officers us under the bus. How has he done that?
LYNCH: What you had was the mayor right after the grand jury made their decision put on the backs of New York City police officers decades of racism. And that's just not true. I have 31 years in the New York city police department and I have never once heard on a radio call when a call came over, what race are they, what color are they? Who do they love? Where do they live? It has never ever happened.
COOPER: And you don't believe race is an issue with New York City police officers as it is?
LYNCH: It's a majority/minority police department. We're out there in the city of New York who has made of. We are doing our job well. We have thousands of thousand of intersections each and every day right outside this building as we speak. We're doing our job well. We're not looking at who the person is. We're looking at the behavior that leads to the interaction with the police. That's the question. The behavior and why someone called police in first place.
COOPER: I talked to the borough council president of Brooklyn, Eric Adams. He said the way police -- when he was on the force, the way they police in Brooklyn in some communities of color is different than the police on park avenue.
LYNCH: That's absolutely not true.
COOPER: You say categorically not true.
LYNCH: It is not true. Look, there's racism in everything. There is racism in every profession that's out there. But on majority our police officers are going out doing the job. They're really not asking who it is. They're getting a call of a crime. Those calls come from the community. In this case in Staten Island, it was the community that called, not once, it was a chronic location. They went to the community council meetings and complained. We were sent there because the merchants asked us to be there.
COOPER: But if everybody has inherent biases, that biases that sometimes are not even aware of, aren't those amplified amongst those who have power over others?
LYNCH: No, I don't believe so. Because you have to look at the number of cases that police officers deal with every day, and the majority of people leave satisfied. We're not asking who they are. It just doesn't happen.
COOPER: So when the mayor says he's worried about his son and the dangers his son would face interacting with the police, that upset you?
LYNCH: What should upset him and what should upset his son is the criminals that are on the street. It's New York City police officers literally putting themselves between the citizens and the criminals.
COOPER: But there are a lot of -- I mean, I've heard that comment from a lot of African-American parents who are worried about their kids, worried about their kids and only with crime on the streets, but also with interacting with police and --.
LYNCH: But what he left out of the comment is the police officers you should be running to, to help you. It's police officers that surround the mayor and his family keeping them safe as we speak.
COOPER: So when you look at that video of officer Pantaleo and other officers interacting with Mr. Garner, you say that's not a chokehold that he placed on --?
LYNCH: That's not a chokehold. That's a textbook, a takedown maneuver we taught in the police academy.
COOPER: But textbook takedown maneuver doesn't say put your arm around a guy's neck.
LYNCH: If you look at that video, it's one arm of the police officer under the arm of Mr. Garner and one around the shoulder. A shorter police officer bringing down a --
COOPER: But it looks on the video looks like it goes around his neck.
LYNCH: But you also have to look at his struggle. We're not talking about someone who is standing there and we yoke him and throw him to the ground. We are talking about someone has I'm not going. I'm going to resist arrest.
That can't be. When the determination is made that you're going to be placed under arrest, you must comply. That's not what we saw from Mr. Garner in that case.
COOPER: But you're saying that the arm didn't go around the neck?
LYNCH: I'm saying there was a struggle, there was a plate glass window behind him that if you look at the video closely is rattling. You're talking about a fight that's going on.
COOPER: But it looks like in the video it goes around his neck very quickly and it remains around his neck even after he is dead on the ground.
LYNCH: I disagree. If you look at that, and obviously, the grand jurors disagreed as well because they saw that video. They saw more than one video. They didn't look at just one snippet on the TV of a couple seconds. They watched the entire video and they analyzed that. They also brought into consideration the ME's report. If he died of choking, it would have been asphyxiation. That's not what the medical examiner's report said. He didn't die from choking.
COOPER: It says compression of the neck as well as compression of the chest.
LYNCH: It does not say asphyxiation which is what you would die from. They also brought into consideration his other health factors as well. So it's not as cut and dry as a protest.
COOPER: But it was compression of the neck, compression of the chest. LYNCH: Compression of the neck is not a chokehold. Compression of a
neck is different. Asphyxiation if he chokes. If he died from choking it would have said asphyxiation and it is not what they said.
COOPER: But medical examiner did say chokehold.
LYNCH: In his preliminary public relations released report --.
COOPER: So you sit down with the public relations --
LYNCH: Absolutely, there is no doubt about that. We question why that was.
COOPER: But the way, it does say chokehold in the final autopsy. It is not just in the public --
LYNCH: We're also looking at the grand jury. A chokehold is not illegal. It may be against department policy, but not illegal. So we can't criticize a grand jury that went by the law, that went on all the facts, 60 pieces of evidence and 50 witnesses and the witnesses varied.
COOPER: But by the New York police department definition of a chokehold, any compression of the neck, any arm around the, hand around the neck.
LYNCH: Chokehold, they're trying to have the least amount of force as possible, but that's not always possible in a struggle.
COOPER: But you're saying the definition the NYPD uses is too broad?
LYNCH: No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying a grand jury doesn't look at department guidelines. They look at state law. And we also have to bring in to that. They didn't say he died from a chokehold. It would have been asphyxiation. They said other factors as well, his health, his heart condition. He was overweight, unfortunately. That's what led to his death.
COOPER: But it does say cause of death chokehold amongst as well compression.
LYNCH: Chokehold is not a medical term. So the medical examiner wouldn't say cause of death chokehold. They say asphyxiation.
COOPER: So you're saying everybody who sees the video on television and sees a chokehold, they're wrong. You are saying the medical examiner is wrong in saying chokehold as well?
LYNCH: I'm saying that the medical examiner should be looking at the medical reports and the body itself. I'm saying people that are seeing a portion of the video, the grand jurors see the entire video and other videos as well from different angles as well. You can't make a determination in a short struggle on TV while you're watching the news.
COOPER: But you got to look at this and think there are other ways this could have gone down.
LYNCH: Well, how -- well, you know what no one's telling us as police officers. Well, you don't do that. Tell us what to do, what do you do when someone says, you know what, sir, I'm not going.
COOPER: Well, look. I'm not a police officer.
LYNCH: Exactly. And most people --
COOPER: It is a job I couldn't do in a million years as much as I wanted to do as a kid, there's no way I could do. I'm a complete wimp.
LYNCH: Not so much.
COOPER: But I talked to police officers who say, look, you know what? The police officer I was when I was young and after a couple years on the force is much different than the police officer I was 20 years later. I think I could have talked that guy into handcuffs.
LYNCH: I think. And maybe you think that. And you're standing on the corner and respect to my fellow police officer, but you don't know until you're standing there.
COOPER: Mr. Lynch, I appreciate you for being on. Thank you.
LYNCH: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: So just to review, he's saying not a chokehold at all. And he talked about that if the cause of death would have been asphyxiation, we'll talk to a forensic scientist about that and others as well, former police officers as well. A different point of view. You can see my full interview with Mr. Lynch at ac360.com.
Be sure you set your DVR so you can watch "360" whenever you want. So keep in mind what Mr. Lynch just said. Just as our panel weighs in on those remarks and on the sixth night of protests after Eric Garner's death. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back.
Breaking news, for a sixth straight night protesters on the march on major cities filling streets calling for a stop to killings by police in New York. On the left side of your screen outside Barclays Center in Brooklyn where the Nets are playing the Cleveland Cavaliers. The crowd of demonstrators has been significant throughout the evening. In Washington, protesters have blocked traffic on cross streets and on Connecticut avenue which is a major thoroughfare.
Now, before the break, we heard from Pat Lynch, the president of the New York city police union. He's been blasting mayor de Blasio accusing him of throwing NYPD police officers under the bus. In an exclusive CNN interview tonight, Mr. Lynch had a lot more to say about the death of Eric Garner.
Joining me is a former NYPD officer Dan Bongino who is also former secret service agent, CNN political commentator and "New York Times" columnist Charles Blow and a forensic scientist Lawrence Kobilinsky of the John Jay College of criminal of justice.
Dr. Kobilinsky, let me just start with you quickly. Because Mr. Lynch was saying, it wasn't a chokehold. And if it had been a chokehold, he would have died of asphyxiation which is not what he died of.
DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, JOHN JAY COLLEGE: Well, we do know that the airway was not blocked. He was able to speak "I can't breathe." Airway was not blocked. However, there was an obstruction of the jugular veins which means that blood was going up to the brain but not returning. That is seen by the patchier, the pinpoint hemorrhages found in the gums and the eyelids and on the whites of the eye. So there's no question there was that kind of asphyxia.
Actually, in addition to that, there was hemorrhage on the strap muscles. There are four sets of strap muscles in the neck, hemorrhage on all of them. Then we know about decompression of the chest. What he died of, what Mr. Garner died of, actually, is a heart attack, but that was brought on by a lack of oxygen to the brain. It was a respiratory failure followed by cardiac failure.
COOPER: So when he says there was not asphyxiation, you're saying there was because of the constriction of the jugular, there was compression of the neck.
KOBILINSKY: And in additional to the compression of the chest, yes.
COOPER: OK.
Charles Blow, you hear Mr. Lynch also saying look, racism is not an issue in the New York City police force. He's never heard over the radio call somebody saying what race is the person as being whether or not they would respond to a crime.
CHARLES BLOW, COLUMNIST, NEW YORK TIMES: Well, I mean, I think we would all like to believe that that is the case. However, what Mr. Lynch is talking about is articulated bias, right? And that we don't always articulate our biases. We don't always know that we have the bias. We don't know that we're operating on biases when we do operate on bias, so we can't necessarily rule it out.
You may not be able to rule it in and say in this particular case in this particular instance, someone was operating on a bias and I have demonstrable proof of that. You can also not rule it out because of that.
And what we should be talking about is ways in which we can kind of deal with that in a broader context. For instance, if you're going to have psychological evaluations, for instance, they should include bias instruments in those evaluations. And they should not only be given when you're going into the force but regularly because bias is not genetic, right? So it is not congenital. You're not born with it. It develops over time. And it can develop even later in life even while you're on the force. You may come in not having biases because of the people you have the police and the things you encounter, you may develop biases. So I think we should do checkups about that.
COOPER: Dan, you know, Eric Adams, the borough president for Brooklyn, former detective with the New York police department, I quoted him to Mr. Lynch, if Mr. Adams says that the way police officers police in an inner city community is very different than the way they police in a wealthy white community on park avenue. Do you believe that's true? Is there different policing based on the area, the ethnic racial makeup?
DAN BONGINO, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE OFFICER: I do believe that the policing strategies are different but not due to the ethnic or racial makeup. I think Eric Adams should know better than that. He was a police officer.
COOPER: I don't think he was talking about strategies for policing. I think he's talking about ways police interact with people that they are -- that they come across.
BONGINO: Anderson, I can only speak for my personal experience as a police officer. I never saw that. And I'm not saying again that racism does not exist and that it's not a problem in America. But the problem when you say things like Charles brings up every time I'm on the show with him, what he says is this latent bias and this unconscious bias that exists, he's putting forth the premise that is not refutable. OK?
So if you act racist, you're racist. But if you don't act racist, there's an unconscious bias. So you maybe a racist. I mean, it puts people like me who absolutely abhor that type of behavior on the defensive because, frankly, we're tired of being called that. People are tired of being called a conscious or unconscious racist when their actions speak otherwise.
COOPER: Charles, what about that?
BLOW: Well, I mean, his fatigue is not really not my concern. What I'm more concerned about is whether or not people are going to have to bury people or not, and that is what the people are in the streets about because people have had to bury their kids. And they're worried about whether or not bias crept into that policing in those particular cases and whether or not systematically --
COOPER: Do you believe there's a systematic problem with race --?
BLOW: I think that cases like Eric Garner has so many layers other than whether or not he was choked to death and whether or not the grand jury did the right thing or had the right outcome. You have to go all the way back to things like, you know, the broken windows policy and whether or not something that started out with a good intent to get good results and may have even gotten those results is now delivering diminishing returns that you, you know, have a guy who's arrested 31 times for a minor crime. And whether -- and the policy rests on this notion that, you know, either if you let these small things go that people will say, we don't care, or that there will be gateway kinds of crimes to larger crimes.
Well, in this case, was he going on to larger crimes or not? And do we want to use our, you know, 35,000 officers in this city, do we want to have them out doing that?
COOPER: Dan, do you believe that -- Mr. Lynch says, you know, I said could this have gone any other way, he says he doesn't really see how. That, you know, had Mr. -- the only other way it could have gone was Mr. Garner let himself be arrested.
BONGINO: Well, I think it could have. And listen, it's easy for me to Monday morning quarterback. I wasn't there. And let me just get that out of the way. But police departments in general, Anderson, there is a crisis in policing, and it's a crisis in training despite what some of the other guests have said. I was there. I went through the police academy three times, twice with the NYPD, once with the secret service.
There is a crisis in training. It is not taken seriously in America. I can tell you that. I have been there. Training is always be at the triage, a police department's priority. It is always at the bottom.
So with the situation like that, how could it have gone differently? There are a number of joint manipulation techniques that rarely if ever are fatal. We have to get away from the neck. It is a loser every single time. But it requires extensive training. Sending someone who has never been in a street fight to the police academy for a week of control tactics is a joke.
COOPER: Not enough.
BONGINO: And will never lead any improvement.
COOPER: Dan Bongino, appreciate it. Charles Blow as well. Lawrence Kobilinsky, as well.
Find out just how rare it is for police officers to be indicted really for anything. All you have to do is take a look at Albuquerque, New Mexico, where there have been no excessive force charges against police for 30 years now. This is city that has an officer involve a shooting rate eight times than that of New York. Drew Griffin investigates that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Protesters outside Barclays Center had hope to power their voices will be heard. Now they hope the power of the silence will be heard. This is the scene happening right now with what they call a die-in.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)
COOPER: The fact the police officers in Ferguson and New York have not been indicted for killing unarmed man has caused outrage across the country as you know. But those who didn't know, say it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that the officers weren't charged. The numbers are hard to come by as senior investigator correspondent Drew Griffin found out. It's not entirely clear how many people have been killed by police. What is clear that it's not very often that police officers are charged with anything. If you look at just one city, Albuquerque, New Mexico, for instance, the picture begins to come into focus.
In the past three decades no police officers not one, have been charged with excessive use of force. And that doesn't mean that police in Albuquerque hardly ever shoot anyone compared to other cities. Quite the opposite.
Here's what Drew Griffin found out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a police shooting caught on tape by the actual officers who fired the shots. It happened in March and the victim's family, their attorneys and those who claim this was an execution, say there's no greater proof than what you're about to see.
James Boyd, homeless, 38 years old, was illegally camping all alone in the hills above this desert city when he was surrounded by dozens of Albuquerque police.
The police were trying to get James Boyd to simply move along. After hours of fruitless negotiations, Boyd turned away from the police and was holding two small camping knives in his hand. Police determined it was enough of a threat to do this.
Three shots, a police dog attacks. Bean bags are fired. Police handcuff Boyd as he is wheezing and bleeding. James Boyd died the next day, but his case isn't isolated. He was the 26th person in the last four years to die after being shot by Albuquerque police, the 26th person. The autopsy revealed Boyd was shot in the back, a homicide.
Today, not a single officer involve has been charged with anything. Alarming but statistically not surprising.
Bowling Green University professor Phil Stinson, a former cop himself, has been trying to determine just how many people are killed by police, how many of those killings are determined to be crimes. But it's not easy. The data, he admits, is not perfect, the reporting scant, and law enforcement agencies, he says, sometimes don't cooperate and respond honestly to surveys. But in 2000, 718 cases involving police shootings from 2005 to 2011 just 41 sworn officers were ever charged with manslaughter or murder. What's more, he says, is that in ten years of data on sworn officers involved in any kind of misconduct on the job or off, officers charged with crimes ranging from theft to murder are 33 percent less likely to be found guilty than the general public.
PROF. PHIL STINSON, BOWLING BREEN UNIVERSITY: They're treated differently, and the people that have to make the decisions, either the charging decision in terms of returning an indictment or, you know, ultimately determining guilt in a criminal case, they're just very reluctant to do so.
GRIFFIN: Nowhere is that more evident than Albuquerque. Statistics since 2010 show this city has an officer-involved shooting rate twice that of Chicago, eight times that of New York, yet not a single Albuquerque police officer has ever been charged let alone convicted of using excessive force in the last 30 years, not one. District attorney Kari Brandenburg said she's still investigating the shooting of James Boyd, that homeless camper, but after 13 years in office she has never brought an excessive force charge against a single cop. Her explanation, in a news conference earlier this year, she can only believe what the police tell her.
KARI BRANDENBURG, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We have to rely on the police reports. That's what we have. That's a flaw in the system. We're not an investigative agency.
GRIFFIN (on camera): The police essentially decide what they can and cannot get away with.
BRANDENBURG: Right.
GRIFFIN (voice over): Albuquerque is now under supervision by the U.S. Department of Justice, which did determine the city's police force has a problem with excessive force. Gordon Eden is the new police chief, hired to change the culture of his department.
GORDON EDEN: We're holding people to a higher degree of accountability.
GRIFFIN: Professor Phil Stinson believes there may be a bigger solution needed. Cops should not investigate cops he says, and local prosecutors who rely on cooperation from local cops shouldn't investigate the cops either.
STINSON: They don't want to tick off the people that they need in order to get convictions. So that's complicated, and I think we need to take a closer look at whether we need to have, you know, special prosecutors and maybe someone from the state attorney general's office in different places come in to handle these cases.
GRIFFIN: In Albuquerque, it is the local prosecutor still waiting to determine if charges will be filed in this shooting of James Boyd. She is waiting for the police department's own investigation of itself to make that decision. Perhaps this spring. Drew Griffin, CNN, Albuquerque.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Joining me now is Brooklyn borough president Eric Adams, he's a former NYPD captain, a former New York State senator as well. He was on the New York City police department force for 22 years. Do you agree that police shouldn't investigate police, even local prosecutors shouldn't necessarily do it? ERIC ADAMS, BROOKLYN BOROUGH PRESIDENT: No, I do agree. And one of
the proposals I had when I was in the state senate is that at the time of the shooting or an incident where a person is seriously injured likely to die, you need an independent apparatus gathering the evidence. Because that evidence that's gathered at the beginning of the crime is the picture that will take you all the way through the investigatory process.
COOPER: But as you know, the police, you know, push back on this and say, look, you're treating police like suspects and don't police have to have a certain amount of confidence that, you know, the system has their back?
ADAMS: Well, the right to take a life and take freedom two places and items that is dear to Americans. Police are the only body that can do that. With that, you have a higher level of oversight and expectation, and it's about transparency, not cuffing (ph) our police, I believe in public safety. That's why I gave my life for 22 years to it. But I know how this apparatus is being used incorrectly.
COOPER: Mr. Lynch, who you knew well personally, who represents the police union, I put what you had said to me on this program before, that police officers police differently, interact differently with people in, you know, in one community that's, you know, African- American community versus how they do it in maybe a Caucasian community or economically, you know, more wealthy community. He said that's not true, that there is not different ways of interacting with people.
ADAMS: Two things. One, a police officer leaves the precinct on his command with the two boxes of equipment. That he can use when he police. In certain communities he only used the hammer in the box, in other communities he used all the tools that are available to talk a person down, a hostage situation, to approach him. To use all his skills how to de-escalate an incident. The goal is how do you stop the issue without hurting yourself, the victim and the public. The second thing that we need to examine, if you look closely at all of our police unions they're making a big mistake. When an officer takes the life of an innocent person, his life is destroyed also. But because our unions have become so defensive instead of being proactive and showing how do we police consistently, they're hurting their members. That's an antiquated method, it's not the method of the future.
COOPER: Well, the other thing, Mr. Lynch was saying, it's like he'd never heard -he doesn't believe race is an issue with the New York City Police Department. He never, in all those years on the force, heard somebody over the radio say, you know, what's the race of the person involved in this incident as a way of determining whether or not to respond to a scene.
ADAMS: Let me tell you something, Anderson, I've made so many mistakes as a police officer because I prejudged someone because of their race and their religion and who they were.
COOPER: You personally did that? ADAMS: I personally made a lot of errors. And I know black doctors and attorneys, I know black engineers, I know black preachers, and still with all of that information, because of the system that indoctrinated me for many years, I looked at people differently until you have to catch yourself and say, how are you policing? And so for a white male to state he never saw race, I find that hard to believe.
COOPER: So that's really interesting that you as an African-American man even found yourself responding to people with preconceived notions.
ADAMS: Yes, without a doubt. Because remember what you are hearing all day when you are - in that vehicle? All day long if you're in certain areas you're hearing all day coming through the transmission, robbery, male black, crime, male black. You are constantly hearing that. And if you don't start each day with the concept and philosophy that each person you meet, treat them as an individual and not the baggage that you're bringing, if you can't do that, then there's no way you can police people fairly.
COOPER: You know, when I'm in the war zone, I wear a bullet proof vest and often ride in armored vehicles. It changes the way I see a place. And does putting on that uniform, wearing that vest, having the weapons, does it change the way you view yourself and view all those around you?
ADAMS: Without a doubt. Look at the "Daily News" article. They did an article that showed the shootings and look at the ethnicities of individuals who are involved. They're black, they're white. The victims are not changing, but the persons who are shooting is a diversified group. So it's the culture of the institution that's converting people into this us against them mind-set. And the police departments across our country are not realizing what is a danger behind that, and we're not training according to that. We're in a state of denial. We are a country that's intoxicated with bad policing and we got to start this process of one step towards recovery and the right training and identifying that we have a problem. That's the first step to recovery. I'm saying I have a problem. And we are now willing to do that.
COOPER: It's fascinating to talk to Eric Adams. Thank you so much.
ADAMS: Thank you.
COOPER: I appreciate it. What we're learning about the failed U.S. mission to rescue an American photojournalist who was being held hostage by al Qaeda militants in Yemen, Luke Somers and another hostage killed by their captors. Details ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back. Family members of the American photojournalist who was killed by al Qaeda's affiliate in Yemen say they were not asked to sign off on a U.S. rescue mission, a mission that failed on Friday. Luke Somers was killed by his captors as well as a South African teacher who was also fatally shot. Adding to the tragedy, the teacher, the South African teacher was expected to be released very soon because of the efforts of a South African humanitarian group. Barbara Starr has details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Outrage from the family and friends of the South African hostage Pierre Korkie.
IMTIAZ SOOLIMAN, GIFT OF THE GIVERS FOUNDATION: There's a lot of anger against the U.S. government and there's a lot of understanding on the other side, too. So there's mixed comments and mixed thoughts on the process.
STARR: After months of being held by al Qaeda in Yemen his family thought he'd be free within hours.
LUKE SOMERS, AMERICAN HOSTAGE: My name is Luke Somers.
STARR: U.S. officials say, however, after seeing this video of American hostage Luke Somers late last week, the Pentagon concluded Somers was in imminent danger of being killed. The U.S. scrambled for a last-minute rescue. By Thursday the U.S. had satellite images of the compound where Somers was being held. By mid-morning Friday, the mission was a go. It would not succeed in the end.
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESPERSON: The president does not at all regret ordering this mission to try to rescue Mr. Somers.
REP. MIKE ROGERS (R), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I commend the president for acting because the intelligence showed an urgency to get in or they were going to kill this American hostage anyway.
STARR: It was the dead of night in Yemen. U.S. officials say B-22 aircraft raced to a remote region in eastern Yemen, about 30 commandos from SEAL Team Six and combat medics began hiking to the compound where Luke Somers and South African Pierre Korkie were being held. Just yards from the target, dogs began barking. The U.S. says the SEALs were spotted. A firefight erupted. With aircraft keeping watch, the SEALs battled the terrorists. U.S. officials say one terrorist ran back into the compound shooting Somers and Korkie. The U.S. did not know Korkie was there. It was a desperate 30 minutes on the ground. The medics tried to stabilize both critically wounded men. They called for the B-22s to land as close as possible, but one hostage died on the aircraft, the other back on board a nearby Navy ship.
Some in American hostage Luke Somers' family say they wish more had been done to get him out of Yemen earlier and that they were not consulted about the rescue mission. U.S. officials point out that the United States does not tell families ahead of time about highly classified hostage rescue efforts. Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
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COOPER: Joining me now is Reuters investigative reporter David Rohde who was held captive for seven months after being kidnapped by the Taliban. He was able to escape. It's understandable that U.S. government doesn't tell a family in advance there's going to be a classified raid for, I mean, for obvious reasons, isn't it?
DAVID ROHDE, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, REUTERS: Well, this is another example of the shifting policy that families have complained about. In my case and in one other I know for sure, my family was told that if there was an opportunity for a raid, they would be asked for permission.
COOPER: Oh, really?
ROHDE: Yes. And I know from a second active case that's still ongoing they were also told about this. So, you know, this is the second example of where the American policy does not seem clear, the separate issue is where some families that if they paid a ransom, they would be prosecuted. Again, it's five years have passed since my case. There was no talk of anyone being prosecuted for a ransom in the past, and now there's some new standard, you know, possible prosecution if you do pay a ransom.
COOPER: And - you know, we talked about this so many times, the lack of communication that families say that frustrates them. I mean never is it more evident than in the case with this South African who this family had by all accounts, by reports, had been negotiating for this organization, a humanitarian organization for his release and had arranged, I mean we're talking about just hours away from him actually allegedly being released.
ROHDE: Yeah, the press reports that they agreed on a ransom of $200,000. The money was there, it was going to happen that same morning. And again, it's back to another question about American procedure. Did the U.S. government inform South African government officials that they were going to carry out this raid? There were four Western hostages in that area. Did they tell the three other governments they were going to make this raid? Apparently, no. You know, why not? I understand you've got to have operational security, but do you trust other governments, you know?
COOPER: The other question is, did - it's not clear, though, that the South African government even knew that's their citizens were negotiating for the release of the South African national. So, even if the South African government had been informed it may not have had any impact.
ROHDE: Yeah, and to be fair, you know, the U.S. did not know, they didn't know that the South African national was in this compound and they had no idea that, you know, it was so close to an apparent deal.
COOPER: So I mean, again, it's one of these situations where, yes, there needs to be perhaps more communication, but it's a tricky situation.
ROHDE: It is, but it's back to actually, you know, two separate issues you pointed out many months ago. Rescuing a hostage, you know, getting them out, maybe paying a ransom as Europeans do is very difficult, but can you have a better relationship with families?
COOPER: With families.
ROHDE: Can you clearly say we will tell you before a raid or we won't tell you before a raid. You know, you can pay a ransom or you can't pay a ransom, you may be prosecuted. And that will we share intelligence with other countries that have captives on the ground?
COOPER: David Rohde, good to have you on as well. Thank you so much.
ROHDE: Thank you.
COOPER: Prince William and his wife Kate as we mentioned are here in New York. The latest for royal visit and how today I somehow ended up on the same plane as William, which kind of surprised me and everyone else on board as well. I'll explain ahead.
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COOPER: An unexpected passenger was on my flight from Washington to New York this afternoon. Prince William hit a special meet and greet today in the nation's capital. William and his wife Katherine, the Duchess of Cambridge arrived in the U.S. on Sunday. They're here for three days spending most of their time in New York. As you mentioned earlier, right now the royal couple is attending their first NBA game. They're watching King James or LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers take on the Brooklyn Nets. CNN's Max Foster joins me now with more on this royal. I've got to say, I was - I mean everybody on the plane, it was a regular shuttle fight, a U.S. Air shuttle flight, 2:00 from D.C. to New York, and they bumped everybody out the front, and so I was all the way - I was like 26, I was all the way in the back.
MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENET: When does that ever happen?
COOPER: With surprising regularity, actually. But also - the three flight attendants backward, so funny, they were like, you know who is coming, and I was like, yes, everybody has told me this. Like all the security people telling.
FOSTER: I think it's part of the security, you know. Rather than having a big fuss, they can just get on a plane and that's part of the security process that no one knows that they're coming.
COOPER: But I think it surprised everybody on board the aircraft ...
FOSTER: Yeah.
COOPER: That he was flying commercial and had a relatively small entourage. And, you know ...
FOSTER: Any interactions there?
COOPER: No, I mean I was - I saw like the back of his head basically. You know.
FOSTER: That's a keeper, regular flight.
COOPER: Yes, I'm sure - he was ...
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: So this is his first time in New York?
FOSTER: Yes. First time in New York and Washington.
COOPER: I find that ...
FOSTER: Yeah, and I think, you know, it's going to be a real memory for them as well. It's interesting. These pictures here from the Carlisle Hotel which is where Diana used to stay. And I think there are so many associations, aren't there, particularly in the U.S. with Diana and Kate perhaps going to her footsteps as well and William always sort of having a link (INAUDIBLE) Diana, without talking about her.
COOPER: And he did meet with President Obama today.
FOSTER: He did. And they discussed the new royal baby due in April, as I understand it. And William is keeping a surprise for himself what sex that baby's going to be. That's one little ...
COOPER: Yes.
FOSTER: And also a lot of people noted how George Washington is looking down on the future king of England. The president ...
COOPER: A little reminder there.
FOSTER: But it's very important to him on this trip in meeting Obama, which is about - you know, he's got this passion about tackling wildlife, illegal trade in wildlife parks and he recruited President Obama to some extent because he made a statement about it afterward. He then went on and made a speech about that. So, it was really important to him.
COOPER: It was interesting being on this plane because, you know, most Americans, a lot of Americans don't really care much about the royal family. We gave up all that sort of thing. And yet there was this kind of buzz and excitement to see this guy come on the aircraft. It's undeniably sort of like seeing a rare gazelle or something. You know?
(LAUGHTER)
FOSTER: I mean - this, yeah, I mean it's something untouchable, isn't it, about it. And those little moment today I was in Harlem with the duchess. She went into this youth center. And she spoke there. They was meeting Hillary Clinton and she's part of this campaign as well. And this little girl said, princess. And then this girl thought she was a princess out of "Frozen." And I think that's the association with princesses, the Disney story and, you know ... COOPER: Great to have you on. Thank you very much. A lot more happening tonight. Susan Hendricks is here with the "360" news and business bulletin. Susan.
SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, thousands of U.S. Marines are on alert, that's because tomorrow the Senate Intelligence Committee will release a report on coercive interrogation techniques on CIA prisoners immediately after the 9/11 attacks.
Also, a small private plane crashed into a home in Gaithersburg, Maryland, this morning, killing three people inside. A woman, her infant son and her 3-year-old son as well. Three people aboard the plane also died including the CEO and founder of health decisions, a clinical research company.
Take a look at this, in Los Angeles, firefighters are investigating that massive fire that destroyed an apartment complex under construction. It took about 250 firefighters just to get that blaze under control. Parts of the 110, and the 101 freeways were closed for a short time as crews, Anderson, tried to battle that massive fire.
COOPER: Incredible. Susan, thanks very much. We'll be right back with the latest on protests here in New York and across the country.
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COOPER: A quick look at the protest. Protesters who have been outside the Barclays Center. I'm told they've gone into the Atlantic Terminal Mall nearby in Brooklyn. Looks like at least several dozen there. I'm not sure in total how - what the numbers are. We'll continue to follow that throughout the night. That does it for us. We'll see you again 11 p.m. Eastern, another edition of "360."
"THE COSBY SHOW: LEGEND UNDER FIRE" starts now.
