Return to Transcripts main page

Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Major Developments in Search for Prison Escapees; D.A.: Dogs Still on Scent of Escaped Killers; Cleveland Judge Rules There's Probable Cause to Charge Officers Involved in Tamir Rice Shooting. Aired 20:00-21:00p ET.

Aired June 11, 2015 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Thank you for joining us tonight.

There is breaking news in the search for the two escaped killers, David Sweat and Richard Matt and a major development concerning the woman they reportedly befriended, Clinton correctional facility worker, Joyce Mitchell. That's her picture. Now, the local district attorney saying that any charges against her, and he says there could be several, may depend on her continuing cooperation. He is going to join us shortly and we'll find out more.

Also, new word from multiple outlets that she was investigated by the corrections department for her relationship with one of the two men, now reportedly, David Sweat.

And Deborah Feyerick has been digging on that. She joins us shortly as well.

We just learned that authorities near the prison in Dannemora have now gotten more than 650 local lead with hundreds more coming in from around the state and the country.

First, Randi Kaye in the search zone where police dogs notice something in the air.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another strong lead, this time in the village of Cadyville, just a few miles from the prison where Richard Matt and David Sweat escaped from. Authorities now confident that tracking dogs picked up the scent of the two fugitives and an imprint from a shoe or boot may belong to the men.

You can definitely feel the increased police presence today with more and more check points like this one here where law enforcement is checking cars, looking into back seats, and the trunks, and also, cars are being detoured off the main highway to smaller road like this one.

New York state police have shut down a large part of route 374, the main thoroughfare into Dannemora where Clinton correctional facility is located. And there is someone with a gun on nearly every corner.

This all began late Wednesday when residents received automated phone calls from homeland security in the middle of the night, warning them to turn on outside lights and lock their doors.

This latest search also turned up what appeared to be bedding made from grass or leaves. And food wrappers indicating the escapees may be sitting tight.

This is just one of the many areas they're searching. There has been a steady flow of police activity here with law enforcement going in and out of this neighborhood. Also, low-flying helicopters up above. But still no sign of the two men.

As a precaution, nearby Cerenak central school district was closed for the day as the manhunt continued.

Have you seen any state police around here?

BOB KELLAWAY, DENNAMORA, NEW YORK RESIDENT: The state police have been by here without exaggeration probably 50 times in the last three or four days.

KAYE: Have they asked you any questions?

KELLAWAY: Yes, they have. If I have seen anything. Heard anything. The answer has been no.

KAYE: If the fugitives are in the area they're up against some pretty tough terrain. Even the search team are having to use four wheelers to cut through it. There is so much thick brush it can be hard to see.

Swampy areas are everywhere around here. Residents say there is even quicksand, all of that plus black flies, and coyotes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm sure it's bad if they're out there. They're probably getting eaten alive.

KAYE: The longer this drags on the more residents are on edge and nobody here is taking any chances. This woman checks her attic and basement every night before bed to make sure she is safe.

Reporter: What do you think the likelihood is that these guys are still in the area?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's pretty good. Because I know if I was running I'd be looking over my shoulder.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Imagine that having to check your basement and your attic every night.

Randi Kaye joins us no live from outside the prison.

Randi, first of all, Cadyville, the town that you were in previously and where that scent was picked up, how far is that from the prison?

KAYE: Well, we are in Dannemora right in front of the prison here. There is another town called Cerenak and then comes Cadyville. So, it is about three or four miles from here, Anderson.

COOPER: And why do authorities think they're still in the area? That's simply based on what the dogs picked up?

KAYE: Well, there is a few reasons why. Heavy rains. It has been raining really steadily since we got here and we have been here all week. The rain is especially heavy at night. So they think maybe they're just sitting tight and haven't moved on because of that. Of course, we also know that their getaway car, Joyce Mitchell who is supposed to allegedly pick them up didn't pick them up. So they may still be on foot. Although, a lot of freight trains that come through the area. But they're still not believing that they got on one of freight trains.

And the other reason of course is just there is - you know, what they found. They found a lot of the, you know, what they found, the bedding that they think, and some of the other things in the area. And also just the fact that there is, there is a, a path they believe, that they might have taken in some of the backyards here. So they're looking at all of that as a factor.

COOPER: All right, Randi Kaye, appreciate it.

Now, more on this new aspect of the Joyce Mitchell story, the prior complain about her relationship or possible relationship with one of the two killers. ABC News and "the Wall Street Journal" reporting that it was David Sweat. And that even though officials did not find enough to discipline her, it was enough for them to pull Sweat out of the Taylor shop where Ms. Mitchell was working.

Deborah Feyerick has been talking to her sources. She joins us now.

What have you been hearing about this?

[20:05:03] DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, what we are learning is that somebody complained about a questionable relationship between Joyce Mitchell, who also known as Tillie and one of the inmates which we believe may have been David Sweat. Though there have been insinuations it was with the other man was also working in the tailor shop. Unclear as to what the questionable relationship was about. The correction's officers, we do know, did investigate. And when the two escaped, investigators were very quickly able to turn their attention onto this woman, simply because of her earlier connection to the two individuals.

COOPER: And that's why they were able to check her cell phone and notice that it had been used to contact some associates?

FEYERICK: And that's exactly right. Multiple calls were made to associates, we know, of Richard Matt. And so, they believe that either she made those calls on their behalf or alternatively the two inmates took that phone and made those calls themselves. And that is a big indication as to who were they talking to outside of the prison walls? And who did they expect possibly to help them when they did ultimately escape? COOPER: So, we don't know for sure. I mean, it's -- "the Wall Street

Journal" and ABC, has been reporting that the relationship may have been with this guy, Sweat.

FEYERICK: David Sweat.

COOPER: David Sweat.

FEYERICK: Correct. One thing you really have to keep in mind also is that by all accounts, these two men were together constantly. They shared cells. They were right next door to each other. They were able to get a job in the tailor shop. Repairing inmate clothing. And so, the fact that they were together so much and they were so intricately involved in this plot to escape together, it is possible that when the relationship, the questionable relationship was discovered with one of the inmates then the other one sort of stepped in to take the place. This is all about cunning, this is all about conning, and this is all about looking at a woman who was susceptible to this and taking advantage of it.

She told investigators she was made to feel special. But other than that, the family is denying an inappropriate relationship between her and the inmates. But, what she is telling investigators, it seems to be contrary to that.

COOPER: Fascinating.

Deborah Feyerick, thank you very much for that.

As district attorney of Clinton county, where the prison is located. Andrew Wylie is heading up the criminal investigation in connection with the escape and he joins us now.

Thanks so much for being with us. What can you tell us about the search? As it stands right now? Have you gotten any new clues as to where the guys might be? How confident are you about, that, that this seems to be on the right trail?

ANDREW WYLIE, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, CLINTON COUNTY, NEW YORK: Thank you for having me.

I just had a quick briefing with some of the lead investigators in the case. And the search is continuing tonight. We'll continue that as long as the dogs have a scent. And they're working that, that perimeter in Dannemora toward everyone. And if this is an actual true lead, that the dogs are following on, we hope to be successful within the next 24 hours.

COOPER: As far as you know, are the dogs still on the scent?

WYLIE: They are.

COOPER: I want to ask you about Joyce -- sorry, go ahead.

WYLIE: Just the information that I was provided with, within the last half-hour, the dogs are still on the scent. They're working it very hard.

COOPER: OK. I want to ask you about Joyce Mitchell. Is she still providing them new information?

WYLIE: She is. We have been speaking with her since Sunday. And she continues to come into the station and meet with our investigator and provide very viable information for us that assisted us with the investigation so far.

COOPER: You said since Sunday. Over the course of the week do you have a sense of how many times she has met with authorities?

WYLIE: She has been all most every day into the station.

COOPER: And in terms of what kind of charges she may face, what could she be looking at here?

WYLIE: Well, we're looking certainly at accessory to the escape. There is promoting prison contraband charges. These are all E and D felony level offenses in New York state.

COOPER: The prison contraband charges what would that be based on?

WYLIE: Based on the information we have of potential items that she may have brought into the facility to give to the two inmates.

COOPER: I mean, can you go further on that? Is that, related to the -- the allegations that there was a cell phone that was used?

WYLIE: That is one of the allegations. And we still need to support these allegations. And until we can get that information to fully support those, having to follow cause in doing arrest based on the investigation. We will make a determination if we charge her with the offenses or not?

COOPER: Do you feel she is being honest with you? When she meets with you, is there an attorney with you or is she fully cooperating?

WYLIE: She is fully cooperating. She does not, has not exercised her right to request an attorney. She voluntarily seeks us out, comes in, and each day has been providing more additional information that assisted the investigators.

[20:10:11] COOPER: And her family said that she had gone to a hospital with some sort of attack of nerves or someone else called it a panic attack. Is she at home now? Is she, you know, being treated for anything?

WYLIE: I don't know medically what she is being treated for at this time.

COOPER: OK. As I said earlier, it is being reported there may have been a some sort of prior investigation into allegation that David Sweat had a relationship with Joyce Mitchell, that's what "the Wall Street Journal" and ABC is reporting. Can you confirm that? WYLIE: The information that we have is there was an investigation.

That it was unfounded. There wasn't enough evidence to support a finding, within the department, and as of this week this is the first time that my office has learned information about that investigation. So we were not contacted originally relative to it.

COOPER: You said it was unfounded but there also wasn't enough evidence. I mean, those two things can be contradictory. Is it that there wasn't enough evidence so no evidence of relationship was actually found? Or did you, was it determined by investigator that there absolutely was not a relationship?

WYLIE: I don't believe that the information was that there was absolutely no relationship. I mean, as a result of it, one of the inmates David Sweat was removed from the tailor shop, based on my understanding. And so -- I think disciplinary action was taken. But probably not to the extent where Ms. Mitchell could be, you know, potentially removed from the facility.

COOPER: Can you describe what her demeanor is? How she is handling all of this? I mean, is she freaked out by it? Does she seem just -- conversational?

WYLIE: I'm not present during the interviews of her. I am dealing with things here and locally (INAUDIBLE) on our end. So I haven't met with Ms. Mitchell. And I have talked with the investigators briefly who are conducting the interviews. But I don't have that information for you.

COOPER: Fair enough.

Andrew Wylie, I really do appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

John Walsh of CNN's "the Hunt" is coming up. And when it comes to catching criminals on the run, few people have his knowledge or experience. And later, just how good are these law enforcement professionals who work on all force.

Gary Tuchman shows us what tracker dogs can do.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:16:19] COOPER: Hey, welcome back.

Just moments ago you may have heard the district attorney of Clinton county on this program says dogs are still on the scents of David Sweat and Richard Matt. He confirms that Joyce Mitchell was the subject of a prior investigation into an alleged relationship with one of the two. He also confirms that it was David Sweat. Now, Ms. Mitchell has already been tied to Richard Matt. And as you know, is now being questioned in connection with her reported role as the would-be getaway driver.

John Walsh from "the Hunt" joins us shortly to talk about what it may take to capture these two. But first, our panel on that news and all the other developments

today, Lenny DePaul, who is former commander of U.S. marshal service regional fugitive task force for New York and New Jersey, Robert Fernandez, currently runs similar task force covering the Washington, D.C. area, and Mary Ellen O'Toole, a former top FBI criminal profiler.

So, Rob, investigators seem to be zeroing in on this area and have set up a perimeter. But you caution fugitives can still easily slip through?

ROBERT FERNANDEZ, U.S. MARSHALS: Absolutely. It is very similar to the Eric Frein manhunt in Pennsylvania last October. I was out there for two weeks in the woods looking for him. We deal - we actually saw him on time. Had a tight perimeter on a much smaller area. And it is just - it is very easy for these guys to slip through. So, it's a --

COOPER: Is that just because of the dense underbrush? I mean, for someone who hasn't maybe spent time in that kind of region, that kind of environment, if you actually have seen somebody how can they still slip through?

FERNANDEZ: Well, because you can't -- you have men posted at the certain distances, but it's -- it just, because of the landscape, because of the, foliage, we were set up in one place where there was a bear that came behind us about 20 feet. We didn't even see it. And one guy in a deer stand was about to shoot at it. It is very difficult in that area. And that's why I want to remind everyone that, that -- they could have been in that area. They may, I hope they are still in the area, that noose closes in on them. But they very easily could have slipped away. So, we have to stay vigilant across the country.

COOPER: And Rob, something like, you know, we hear about thermal imaging technology. How foolproof is that in an environment like this?

FERNANDEZ: It is fantastic technology. However, it is going to display on any living creature that shows heat. In the Eric Frein case, it was showing up on deer, bear, dogs, and we were responding to those. It's difficult to tell from a distance. So, it's very helpful. But again it, it -- it is difficult to say, you know, this is, these guys are in here right now.

COOPER: And Lenny, I mean, investigators reportedly treating this one area like a crime scene looking for any kinds of forensic evidence. What kind of things would they be doing?

LENNY DEPAUL, FORMER U.S. MARSHAL: Well, I mean, with respect to -- to the bloodhounds and the hit on this, apparently they hit on the fresh scent, picked up some fresh tracks and stumbled on to a possibly an area where these guys were bedded down, supposedly. Hopefully that all comes true and they're closing in on the two guys.

You know, there are, there were some things found in the area, some wrappers from food or whatever. That's consistent with, what's been in the jail. So, all of that, that's a home run for law enforcement. And as Rob said though, I mean, they certainly could have slipped

through the cracks. You set up a perimeter. You try to tighten it up a little bit and things happen, weather. They're up against it variety of things. And the terrain is pretty rough. Foliage as Rob spoke of. So they're up against it. But, keep our fingers crossed.

COOPER: Lenny, I mean, the advantage here, that I assume investigators have is, I mean, I think if memory serves me in the Eric Frein case, and surely the Eric Rudolph case, those are guys who had extent some knowledge of the (INAUDIBLE) survival, you know, spent a lot of time in those wood. That, obviously, is not the case with these two guys.

[20:20:11] DEPAUL: I don't believe their skill sets are anywhere, where they need to be if in fact these two guys, you know, in the woods which is a huge advantage. We're on day six, I believe, they don't have provisions. I wouldn't think or at least not enough. They are probably delirious, turned around, you know. The weather has been, raining. So, yes. I mean, it is hopefully they screw up somehow and we get on to them quicker than, you know, we would like.

COOPER: Yes.

Mary Ellen, you know, we know Joyce Mitchell had some sort of relationship with, with David Sweat, unclear exactly. She told investigators that Richard Matt made her feel quote "special." Sweat had been removed from the tailor shop. But they didn't find actual evidence of what the relationship may have been. You said that psychopaths can make rational people do irrational things. And I think that such a fascinating idea. Can you talk more about that?

MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Sure. Their ability to manipulate and con and persuade someone to, you know, to trust them, to engage with them, to convince them that hey I'm safe. I'm not a threat. I am a changed man. And at the same time, pay a lot of compliments to someone to say, you know you are very special. If I met someone like you 20 years ago, maybe I would never be in this situation.

It's a grooming process. But the first -- the first thing is to pick someone that, that they know is vulnerable. That will -- for whom this will all be very appealing. And once they identify the target, then they can start using their-- their charms. And kind of groom them over a period of time and get them. The key is, they get them to compromise themselves legally, sexually, and in other ways. So by the time the grooming process is done this person has committed themselves to this individual and they look back and they think, I just can't -- that's not who I am.

COOPER: It is so fascinating, I mean, Mary Ellen, because somebody, a psychopath who doesn't have the kind of feelings that everybody else has to actually be able to perceive the feelings of others and manipulate the feelings is fast night.

Appreciate you being on, Mary Ellen. And thank you, Lenny DePaul, as well, Robert Fernandez. Just ahead, I'm going to I'll talk to John Walsh about what he

believes it takes to catch fugitives like these, David Sweat and Richard Matt. And the mistakes they might make while they are on the run.

Plus, the dogs that are crucial to the search, how sensitive are their noses? What factors, help or hinder their ability to track down guys like this? You just heard from the district attorney in the region, as he said, last heard that the dogs are on the scent.

Gary Tuchman takes up close.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:26:43] COOPER: Again, our breaking news, new insight into why investigators focused on prison worker Joyce Mitchell so early on, so quickly. Why they were able to examine her cell phone. The prior complaint about her behavior with David Sweat, that was the reason.

Now, we should underscore she is yet to be charged with helping either killers. Possibly, she won't be charged if she continues to cooperate according to authorities. Now more on the help they definitely are getting from the raw geography of where this is all happening.

Joining us, someone who knows what it takes to catch a fugitive, John Walsh, host of "THE HUNT" right here on CNN.

John, this hunt, you know better that most what authorities are up against right now. Explain how difficult it is?

JOHN WALSH, CNN HOST, THE HUNT: Well, they're in an area that is so big, so large, so vast, they're close to the Canadian border. They could walk across the border. People don't understand you can walk across borders into countries. And, I personally think that with so many cabins up in there, especially in Vermont, summer homes that these guys if they're still together, they could be holed up. They haven't done anything stupid. They haven't raped anybody. They most lifers will go on a crime spree say I'm going to get caught. They're going to take me back. These two guys obviously don't want to get caught.

COOPER: In your experience do people usually stay together as long as they can? Or do they try to separate?

WALSH: Well, the not so smart guys usually separate. They go their own way. And then, it creates a whole bunch of chaos. I remember when "America's most wanted," caught the Texas seven. They planned their escape for over a year like these guys planned this escape for a long time. Everybody thought they were going to go south from Texas into Mexico. I thought they were going to go north. They did. They went up, got all the way to Colorado. And they were hiding in a trailer park, posing as a Christian bible group, a traveling singing group. It was a wonderful fan who made the call and said, these guys are in a trailer.

So these two guys are smart. And Matt is the older guy, the sociopath, psycho in this group, has been in the criminal justice system for a long type. He killed someone in Mexico. He has done lots of crimes. He, he knows that if they keep a low profile, the two of them together could probably wait it out. They're probably thinking, you know what. We will stay low. In two weeks, ten days we will make our run to the border. Or until they can get ahold of somebody to pick them up.

COOPER: Has the increased use of technology made it harder or easier for fugitives to disappear. I mean, you can now buy things like prepaid phones. You can do things anonymously on the Internet. At the same time, you know, their records, things are digitals. Records like sales receipts or phone logs or computerized and more easily searchable.

WALSH: Well, the Internet and digital world has actually made it easier for police. Easier for them to communicate. Easier to ping cell phones whether they're burner phones or whether they're phones that they stole from somebody. Hope they're dumb enough to steal a phone from somebody. They will be able to ping the phone and catch them.

But the technology is more on law enforcement's side. It makes the search easier. I've been on your show a million times and say if you are helping these guys you know if you get caught you are going to spend five years in jail. You are going to be accessory. So there is a $100,000 reward. Maybe they're dealing with other dirt bags or people that they have been in prison with. The money is an incentive. They could call 1868 to hunt and turn these guys in still get the reward and remain anonymous. So the public is going to break the case wide open, I really believe so.

COOPER: How much of an appeal is trying to cross over into Canada in terms of being a fugitive, does it make a big difference? Canadian authorities have a lot of contact with U.S. authorities. A lot of cooperation. Does it pay for a fugitive to try to cross over into Canada?

WALSH: It actually does pay to cross over into Canada. I caught maybe 25 guys in Canada in the 25 years I did "America's Most Wanted," again law enforcement is stretched thin in Canada. There are great places to run to. I caught a guy on Thunder Bay, which is a town up near the Arctic circle. So it might be to their advantage to get into Canada. Because there is less law enforcement, and, in all honesty if they stay out there a couple of weeks, the search will be called off. It is using a lot of money and a lot of resources. And if they're lucky enough to stay out a few week, they could stay in Canada for years.

COOPER: Again, all the more important, it is people who are out there, civilian who may have seen something, even if they're not sure they saw something, all the more important that they call in to try to at least let law enforcement know what they have seen?

WALSH: It is so important. Anderson, so important. I remember we caught a prison escapee that was out there for three weeks. He made the mistake of turning a light on in a summer home, in a camp. Neighbors that were getting their camp ready for summer vacation spotted that light go on and made that call. I say to people, no matter how inconsequential what you see, you might think it is inconsequential, but could be those guys making a mistake. Make the call. Make the call. Have the courage to do it.

COOPER: John Walsh. Great to have you on. Thank you.

WALSH: Thank you, Anderson.

COOPER: Make that call. Size of the area notwithstanding though the search continues to be sharply focused. We have said on a much smaller piece of real estate, the spot where police dogs picked up the fugitives' scent. Moments ago, the county DA told me the dogs are still working the scent trail tonight. Does the fact that the dogs were able to detect anything at all say anything abut when the two men were at that site? Put it another way -- how fresh does a trail have to be for dogs like these to pick it up. We wanted to know. Gary Tuchman has been digging deeper.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is DeKalb County, Georgia police officer, Lynn Eschleman, and Andor, her 7-year-old canine dog, and this is DeKalb sergeant Frank Cusimano, and his 4-year-old canine, Jengo. Both dogs are Belgian malinois, like bloodhounds they catch fugitives with their sense of smell.

SGT FRANK CUSIMANO, DEKALB COUNTY POLICE: Their sense of smell is extraordinary, about 1,000 to 10,000 times better than humans.

TUCHMAN: But unlike bloodhounds, they also use their teeth to apprehend.

We'll test Andor with a police dog drill using my scent. When dogs train, they use toys like this. This is the reward when they find it, in lieu of a real person. I will go into the woods right now and hide it. We need an origin point, where the dog's officer will tell the dog I was last seen. And therefore, where the dog's last sniff should come from. We'll do it right from the tree. I will start from. The dog will start there. And then I will go to my hiding point. Which will be, let's say -- right by this log. This is where I'll be hiding, I'll be hiding it right there.

And then, Officer Eschleman goes into the woods with Andor. When it is wet or when time has elapsed, it's not as easy for these amazing animals. But it is dry and I was just in the wood. If it were a real criminal.

OFC LYNN ESCHLEMAN, DEKALB COUNTY POLICE: The felon will be pouring out the fear scent and he's going to be putting out a lot more skin rafts and fear scent coming out. We'll be able to narrow it down to that one guy.

TUCHMAN: Andor is having an easy time with it.

ESCHLEMAN: You got it. Good boy, good boy, you got it. TUCHMAN: Next. Sergeant Thomas Davoy is putting on so-called bite

sleeves. He's about to become the bad guy for this drill.

CUSIMANO: Stop or I'll send my dog.

Stand still. Slowly come to my voice. Slowly walk towards me.

We want to, if need be, stop the dog if the guy gives up. We want to be able to stop the dogs.

TUCHMAN: The dog stops as commanded. But if the felon is threatening.

CUSIMANO: Slowly come to my voice. Slowly walk towards me. Keep your hands where I can see them.

That's a good boy. Good boy.

Let me see your hands. Stop fighting my dog.

The dog is going to protect me as a handler, and himself, and so he apprehended the suspect.

[20:35:00]

TUCHMAN: The cops who work with these dogs also love them.

When he does retire, what happens to him then?

ESCHLEMAN: He stays with me. He's with me until the very end.

TUCHMAN: So he will be your pet forever?

ESCHLEMAN: Yep.

CUSIMANO: I couldn't let go of the dog now. He will be mine forever for sure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Gary mentioned how the rain could affect these searches? How big a problem is that?

TUCHMAN: The rain is a serious issue with these dogs. But it's not as serious if the fugitive has just escaped and the tracks and the scents are fresh. But as the days go by, it certainly becomes problematic. Also problematic, Anderson, when it is very windy. The wind blows the scents and that could throw the dogs off a bit.

A lot of people ask about the dogs, how friendly they are. This is the sergeant you just met, and this is Jengo. I want to explain to you, they're very friendly dogs. But it's not like you come up to a police dog and hug it and do everything you would do with another dog. You ask permission to pet the dog.

CUSIMANO: Yes, sir. TUCHMAN: And then Jengo is as friendly as can be. Has a toy in his

mouth. And they are very friendly dogs. But once again, a public service announcement. Do not come up to a police dog and wrap your arms around him or her. That wouldn't necessarily be smart.

COOPER: And it's interesting, Gary, because it sounded like the officer wasn't speaking English to the dog, was it German?

TUCHMAN: You know, Anderson was just asking me, you weren't speaking English the whole time. Indeed, it is German. I can tell you one of the words is voran (ph), means go. Another word is offligen (ph), and that means Jengo, lay down.

COOPER: Cool, Gary. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. Please thank the officer for us and his dog.

Coming up, more breaking news. A judge finds probable cause to charge the officers involved in the fatal shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice in Cleveland. But that does not necessarily mean charges will actually be filed. We'll explain next.

Also, disturbing new details about a murder of a couple, their son, and their housekeeper in Washington, D.C. What we now know about how they died.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:40:25]

COOPER: More breaking news tonight. A Cleveland judge has ruled there is probable cause to charge two Cleveland police officers in the death of 12-year-old Tamir Rice. You may remember last November, a witness called 911 and reported a guy with a pistol in a park and added the gun was probably fake. Well, it turned out it was fake. It was a pellet gun. The two officers who responded, though, didn't know that, and within seconds of arriving, one of them opened fire and shot Tamir Rice, who died a day later. Today's decision comes just days after a group of activists, tired of waiting for local prosecutors to review Rice's death, brought their case to a judge. The question is where the case goes now? The answer may surprise you. Martin Savidge joins us from Cleveland. This ruling, what exactly did the judge say?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Keep in mind this is a municipal judge, so it's the Cuyahoga County prosecutor that is actually looking into the case. And this judge, after the activists came to him, said, yes, he thought there was probable cause in his opinion that a murder charge should be brought against Timothy Loehman, the officer that fired the fatal shot, and also other charges be brought against his partner, Frank Garmback, who was also with him at the time.

But it is a nonbinding ruling. In other words, there is no compelling reason the authorities have to go out and arrest these officers, which is actually what the activists wanted to see. They wanted to get arrest warrants out for these officers. The judge says, look, there is cause for these charges. But he would not issue an arrest warrant. He said he didn't have that power. So it's back in the hands of the county prosecutor.

COOPER: And you talked to the prosecutor's office about this. Does it change anything for the prosecutor?

SAVIDGE: In their minds, no. Tim McGinty, who is the county prosecutor in this particular case, says this does not change anything. He has always said that any police shooting case in which there is a fatality, he will take it to a grand jury. He said that when he was elected. He continues to say that now. That's what he is doing. He says this case will go to a grand jury, and only a grand jury will decide if these officers are charged or not.

COOPER: And when the ministers and the attorney for the Rice family went to this judge, came up with this kind of unique idea, the police union, they put out a blistering statement. They were very critical. They have been very angry about this.

SAVIDGE: They have. For a number of reasons. Of course they took the side of the officers, and they say this is a justifiable shoot. The officers were told, man with a gun. When they got there, what did they find? A person with a gun. They did not know it was a child. And they did not know it was not a real gun.

However, they also say, look, the only reason that these people went to a judge, they swore an oath that they had evidence this was a murder. Yet none of those people who made those affidavits were ever really there. How could they swear they had the evidence? That's why the union is very angry.

COOPER: Martin Savidge, appreciate the update. New information tonight on the murder of that wealthy Washington couple, their son, their housekeeper, last month. Court documents have been released revealing some new information, including that a bloody baseball bat was found in the house. Also, there are disturbing new details about the horrors that the victims endured. Our justice correspondent Pamela Brown reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: CNN has learned Savvas Savopoulos was strangled, in addition to being beaten, stabbed and burned in his Washington, D.C. mansion, according to a law enforcement force.

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Strangling, stabbing, this is very intimate, very one-on-one, very close in. And it tells, tells me that there is great rage and anger and hostility.

BROWN: Police say Amy Savopoulos, her 10 year old son Phillip and housekeeper Vera Figueroa were also tortured and murdered by 34-year- old Darron Wint. Newly unsealed court documents reveal investigators discovered a bloody baseball bat in the upstairs bedroom, where the couple and the housekeeper's bludgeoned bodies were found.

PAT BROWN, PROFILER: That particular bat, even if a person were using gloves, it doesn't mean that his saliva could not -- might not be on that bat, so there might be DNA. We also don't know if the perpetrator used gloves with that bat yet. So there might indeed be fingerprints.

BROWN: A search warrant also shows investigators also found tape, matches, weapons, and a half eaten pizza with DNA matching Wint, also fingerprints and hair fibers that forensic experts say could tell police if more than one killer was involved.

KOBILINSKY: The average person loses about 100 to 125 scalp hairs every day. And if you are at a location, the likelihood is high you have lost some hair. That would establish a direct linkage between a suspect or an individual and the crime scene.

BROWN: Investigators also found multiple shoeprints, including this print left on a set of French doors on the side of the house, leading police to believe there was forced entry.

[20:45:00]

Darron Wint remains the lone suspect in the case. But police continue to believe he did not act alone.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Pamela, if Darron Wint didn't act alone, as police have said all along, do we know anything more about who else may have been involved?

BROWN: Anderson, we know from a law enforcement official I've been speaking with, that police continue to look at two women who purchased money orders, with the money believed from that $40,000 dropped off at the Savopoulos home while the victims were being held hostage. These women were in the car with Darron Wint when he was arrested. A separate official tells me that investigators have been perplexed as to why Savopoulos' assistant, Jordan Wallace, who dropped off that $40,000 at the home, changed his story multiple times. But I'm told at this point investigators don't believe he was complicit in the crime. It is still an ongoing investigation.

We have also learned, Anderson, a grand jury convened in the case. Some of Wint's family members have been subpoenaed. But I have to tell you, D.C. police have been extremely tight-lipped. I am told several search warrants are still under seal. There is probably a lot we don't know right now. Anderson.

COOPER: Pam Brown, thank you.

Just ahead tonight, in an exclusive interview with CNN's Jake Tapper, former President Bill Clinton defends the donations that are sparking so much controversy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:50:00]

COOPER: "State of the Union" with Jake Tapper premieres this Sunday on CNN. It's going to feature in-depth interviews with political newsmakers. Jake's first guest is former President Bill Clinton. The interview covers a lot of ground, including donations made to the Clinton Foundation when Hillary Clinton was secretary of state. Here is a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: I want to address a couple of issues having to do with the Clinton Foundation since it has been in the news a lot lately. I know you have said, I heard you say, that there is no evidence that any of the donors who have given to the foundation received anything in response from the State Department while Secretary Clinton was there.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.: Nobody even suggested or talked about it or thought about it until the political season began and somebody said well, what about this?

Now, some of the companies that have supported the foundation for years, many of them before she was ever secretary of state -- she was a senator when I left office, so, they do this, they do philanthropy too. No one has ever asked me for anything or any of that.

TAPPER: Well, let me ask you about that. Because I think a lot of people might say, okay, you say there is no evidence that anything was done for them. But can you really say that these companies, these wealthy individuals, these governments, none of them sought anything? I mean, some of them did have business before the State Department?

CLINTON: I don't know. You never know what people's motives are. But in this case, I'm pretty sure that everybody that gave to Haiti in the aftermath of the earthquake, saw what they saw on television and were horrified and wanted to make a difference.

TAPPER: You're not saying -- you say you don't know if anybody sought any favor. Just that there was no.

CLINTON: No, and I don't think Hillary would know either. She was pretty busy those years. And I don't, I never saw her study a list of my contributors, or -- and I had no idea who was doing business before the State Department. But what I will say this -- she believed that part of the job as the secretary of state was to advance America's economic interests around the world. If she hadn't been doing this economic diplomacy work, nobody would have been doing it. But I never thought about whether there was any overlap.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: So, Jake, the former president very clearly brushing aside any allegations concerning the family foundation?

TAPPER: Yes, I mean, I don't know if brushing aside was the right word. He really was eager to talk about it. When I broached the subject, he kind of looked down. He wasn't excited about talking about it. But then he would bring up instances, whether it was questions about the donation given by Algeria, or whether it was questions about donations given by Boeing, or questions about donation that the Clinton Foundation gave to the New York Times neediest cases fund in '07-'08, in which some people have questioned whether that influenced the New York Times editorial board in their endorsement of Clinton over Obama. He brought all of these up. I was trying to keep my questions rather general about questions of quid pro quo. He went right for the ones that he thought would prove his point that there was nothing nefarious going on.

COOPER: How did Bill Clinton seem to you? Just sitting down with him. Did he seem energetic? Did he seem kind of interested in the campaign, ready for a fight? How did he seem?

TAPPER: He seemed in fighting shape. And boy, was he ready to talk politics. Before the interview and after the interview. Regrettably when the microphone was not on him, he was talking all about politics. He loves it. He loves talking about it. It is going to be tough for the Clinton campaign to keep him from talking politics. In fact, Anderson, I asked him one question, and this is going to air obviously Sunday on "State of the Union," I asked him about, before we go, size up the Republican field, if you would, tell us what you think? He talked for ten minutes. Ten minutes.

(LAUGHTER)

COOPER: I look forward to seeing that on Sunday. Congratulations on the new show. It's going to be a great addition to CNN. Jake Tapper.

TAPPER: Thanks.

COOPER: They talked about a lot more, as Jake said. Don't miss the full interview, "State of the Union with Jake Tapper," premieres this Sunday, 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern as well.

Just moments ago, a late development in the New York manhunt. Something we just uncovered. We'll check back with Randi Kaye next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:58:40]

COOPER: A quick update on the manhunt before we go. Randi Kaye has got some new information. She joins us again with that. What have you learned?

KAYE: Anderson, I just spoke to the district attorney, Andrew Wylie, here, and he gave us some new information on the tracking dogs and how they managed to pick up the scent of these two escapees. He said it happened at the Maple Fields gas station and Subway shop, which is just about one mile down the road from the prison. In fact, it's just .9 miles away. He didn't say when they picked up the scent. But he did say that's how they ended up in Cadyville, which is just a few miles away. He said the dogs have continued to follow the scent all the way to Cadyville.

A couple of things to point out here. I asked him about security cameras. He said there are security cameras. They're limited and they are reviewing the tape that was in those cameras. I also asked him what they were doing there, possibly, were they looking for food, or snacks? He said they were probably going through the trash. They were probably hungry. And that's what they were doing there.

He also said that, that it is, would have been open at that time because the store hours, they open at 4:00 a.m. on Saturday morning, they close on midnight on Friday night. These guys were last seen standing in their cell at 10:30 p.m. on that Friday night. It would make sense if they might have disappeared about 5:30 in the morning when those bed checks were (inaudible) Subway and that gas station would have been open, Anderson. So that's how this path to Cadyville began.

COOPER: That's a new development and last we heard from Andrew Wylie, the dogs are still on the scent. Randi, thanks.

Of course you can stay with CNN for any late developments. Right now, though, the premier of the CNN original series, "The 70s."