Return to Transcripts main page

Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Arraignment of Second Prison Worker Soon; Bible Study For The First Time Since Church Massacre; D.A.: Sock Found During Hunt For Escapees; Pres. Obama Clears Way For Private Ransom Payments; Leaked Autopsy Report. Aired 9:00-10:00p ET.

Aired June 24, 2015 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON COOOPER, AC 360 HOST: Good evening. It's 9:00 P.M. Eastern time, perhaps a few minutes away from another arraignment in connection with the escape of two killers from the Clinton correctional facility in Dannemora, New York.

Corrections officer Gene Palmer, the man who gave Richard Matt the hamburger meat with at hack saw blade of seamstress Joyce Mitchell has admitted to hiding in it is now under arrest and is on his way to court.

According to the local district attorney, Mr. Palmer gave Matt and Sweat access to the catwalk behind their cells -- the catwalk they would later use to make their escape. On top of all of that, or perhaps in light of a team of investigators from the State Inspector General's Office, arrived today at the prison. And of course, Sweat and Matt remained at large.

A very big night already and it's not over yet. Jason Carroll has the latest on tonight's arraignment and joins us now by phone. What do we know about exactly the charges Gene Palmer's facing?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are several charges, Anderson, that we are hearing that he will be facing at this point one being promoting dangerous contrabands, the other destroying evidence, another charge of official misconduct. I'm told that these are low level of felonies but still very serious charges, none the less.

I have been in contact with his attorney and his attorney tells me that he had no knowledge of what was inside that frozen flab of hamburger meat that was passed on to Richard Matt. He also said that his client is extremely distraught over everything that has happened and extremely remorseful.

But having said that, that flab of frozen meat not passed through a metal detector which is a violation of prison policy.

The destroying evidence charge and it could have something to do with paintings and/or drawings. You've heard in the past about Richard Matt providing paintings and drawings to people like Joyce Mitchell but apparently also gave several to Gene Palmer as well. And I'm told that Gene Palmer may have destroyed some of those paintings and /or drawings after he heard about Richard Matt and David Sweat's escape.

So at this point, we're waiting for that arraignment scheduled to happen sometime early this evening. Anderson?

COOPER: And, Jason, I understand you're on your way to court. Do you know -- do you have an exact time when it's going to start?

CARROLL: Well, we've -- I've -- in fact I just got off the phone with his attorney not too long ago. I was asking about more specifics about the timing of this. I'm just told that it will be this evening. It should be happening sometime shortly but, you know, how court cases go through the system, Anderson. Shortly it could mean an hour it could mean two.

COOPER: All right. Well, obviously, we'll try to bring it to our viewers whenever possible. Jason Carroll, thank you.

There's a whole new dimension tonight. Joining us now, legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Sunny Hostin. What do you make of these new charges now?

SUNNY HOSTIN, FMR. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I think they're significant while low level felonies, you know, class D and E felonies. They are still criminal exposure. You're talking about for the dangerous prison contraband. I think that's about one to seven years. Even destruction of evidence is about one to four years.

So these are significant charges and if they're going to treat him the same way or similar way they treated Joyce Mitchell, we're going to see someone that may get a bond but may still be in prison, someone who is perp walked and someone who is going to be sent a message that being involved in a prison break is a serious matter.

And I will tell you, many of us don't have experience with this in law enforcement because that doesn't happen that often.

COOPER: The fact that he has by all accounts even the district attorneys being -- he's been cooperative. He took a polygraph with the district attorney saying they believe he passed that polygraph and that he didn't have prior knowledge of the escape, he didn't know what was in the hamburger meat. Does that -- is that taken into account?

HOSTIN: I think so. And I think that's going to be an important piece of this because intent is important when you're talking about promoting dangerous contraband. So I think that's going to be important. I think why he destroyed whatever evidence he may have destroyed, I think his intent behind it is going to be very, very important.

But again, they treated Joyce Mitchell as a very bad actor. And she obviously didn't act alone. And so, I suspect that they are going to treat him similarly as a bad actor. COOPER: All right. Sunny Hostin, I appreciate your perspective. Thank you. I want to go next to our Gary Tuchman with more on investigation on security lapses at the prison.

[21:05:00] These investigators, Gary, from the Inspector General's Office, what are you learning about their probe tonight?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, here's what we know, Anderson. Investigators are at the prison right now checking out allegations of breaches of security protocols that might have led to these two killers escaping from the prison. They are interviewing employees and guards. They're also investigating whether other employees or guards might have had or have improper relationships with the inmates.

And they're also investigating Richard Matt's painting proclivities. They are trying to find out if in addition to allegedly giving paintings as gifts to Joyce Mitchell and Gene Palmer if he gave paintings as gifts to other people who work in the prison which should be entirely improper accepting gifts from a murderer.

COOPER: And Gary, I mean these paintings do you know investigators have any reason to believe that he gave them to other people besides Joyce Mitchell and Gene Palmer and was it -- I mean is there an idea that there were some sort of quid pro quo here?

TUCHMAN: Don't know if there's quid pro quo but we do know that sources are telling us that they do believe that he gave many paintings out. Why he gave the paintings, what he was hoping to get from them, we don't know. But that's all part of this investigation in this very weird and troubling case.

COOPER: All right. Gary Tuchman, I appreciate the updates. Tonight, again is a fast moving story, now a former inmate at Dannemora, who knew Matt and Sweat as well as Joyce Mitchell and Gene Palmer, Erik Jensen has a lot to say about what he saw and he joins us tonight. Thank you very much for being with us.

ERIK JENSEN, FMR. DANNEMORA INMATE: Welcome. Good evening.

COOPER: First of all, what do you know about the relationship or alleged relationship between Joyce Mitchell and David Sweat?

JENSEN: What do I know? I know what I've seen first hand from my time I was in Clinton Correctional...

COOPER: What did you see?

JENSEN: I've seen them exchanging gifts. I see her bringing in things that you shouldn't have in that prison such as tattoo ink, or supplies, food.

COOPER: And what year are you talking about?

JENSEN: This is 2011 to 2012.

COOPER: And was this while he was, do you know, if he was still working in the tailor shop.

JENSEN: I was working in the tailor shop with him...

COOPER: You were?

JENSEN: Yes, in tailor 3. He was the supervisor in that tailor shop.

COOPER: Now, I talk to the District Attorney earlier tonight, he said he doesn't believe or what was Mitchell said, there wasn't a sexual relationship and he has no evidence of the sexual relationship between here and David Sweat, do you believe there was?

JENSEN: From what I've seen, yes. I have no evidence of it. I can't say I ever seen them having sex or any kind of sexual favors but from what I've seen and like their interactions while I was there. Yes, I believe.

COOPER: You think there was enough intimacy in their interaction that you saw...

JENSEN: I definitely believe that. Enough intimacy, enough time alone, you know what I mean. So, anything could happen behind.

COOPER: Were you aware at the time that she also had an intimate relationship or that she had an intimate relationship with Richard Matt?

JENSEN: No, I wasn't. No, I wasn't. This was three years prior to that.

COOPER: Prior to that, correct, OK. What was she like?

JENSEN: And she reminded of like a grandmother, you know, older woman, happy, giddy, you know, I mean she'd always be bringing stuff and for like donuts, bring coffee in for us because we're like to drink coffee and smoke cigarettes down there.

COOPER: Right.

JENSEN: So, we've drink coffee, smoke cigarettes. She'd come in, you know, he talk to date, tell us what to do and then other than that we don't hear from her.

COOPER: And what is -- what was David Sweat and Richard Matt like?

JENSEN: Richard Matt was quiet. I really didn't know Richard Matt that well. I knew David Sweat, we worked out together. We play chess together.

COOPER: What kind of guy is he?

JENSEN: We actually discuss our artwork. He actually is the artist.

COOPER: Is that right?

JENSEN: He is the one who drew all the pictures and the paintings and stuff like that.

COOPER: Really?

JENSEN: Yes, because we exchange our work, you know.

COOPER: So, he would then give to Matt, you're thinking that would give them out.

JENSEN: That's probably what happened. That's probably what happened.

COOPER: And Gene Palmer, the guard, you knew him as well?

JENSEN: Yes, I do know him.

COOPER: Because he was there for 20 some odd year.

JENSEN: He was there. He used to come in, walk to the whole tailor shop buildings. There's tailor 1, tailor 2, all the way up to tailor 8. And he'd walk through the whole tailor shop and, you know, say hi to everybody. He worked the metal detector sometimes by the main gate when they're going back into the main building from the tailor shop.

COOPER: So, he actually worked the metal detector.

JENSEN: When he was there, couple times. Yes.

COOPER: So, that's interesting. So, the idea that he would -- I mean the allegation is that he brought in this hamburger meat that didn't go through the metal detector.

JENSEN: Right.

COOPER: It's sort of ironic if he in the past had worked the metal detector.

JENSEN: Right. And also A block which is the honor block was right there by the metal detector when you come in to the -- from the tailor shop. Just walk outside the tailor shop then you walk back up into the facility to the main gate and then you go through the metal detector then you look back around where you just came from and go to your cell block.

COOPER: Did it make sense to you when you heard that Joyce Mitchell gives Gene Palmer this hamburger meat that had some tools in it and that he didn't put it through the metal detector and was willing to give it to Matt or Sweat. Did that make sense to you?

JENSEN: It does make sense coming from a security stand point but there's also been times when officers they go out hunting up there, the big deer hunters up in like Dannemora, Malogne, and all that...

COOPER: Right.

JENSEN: They'll bring venison for the inmates have it cook it up, you know, sometimes like this. It's like give and take relationship if he was supplying it with information doing this or doing that for him...

COOPER: So, that's not unusual that a guard would maybe give some supplies or something to an inmate particularly that inmate was given -- providing that information...

[21:10:00]

JENSEN: Not at all. If they do a cell search and you have stuff that you don't suppose to have, they'll take that stuff and then who they give it to, they give to the people who have given them information to supply them with radios or whatever it is. You know, just to keep the information rolling back in.

COOPER: Was it known who was giving information to guards. I mean somebody's getting some special stuff.

JENSEN: No, no I don't think anybody knew because and especially in that facility you don't want to be labeled as snitch.

COOPER: Right.

JENSEN: You don't want to be labeled as that and in any facility but especially that one.

COOPER: When -- also now we know that Gene Palmer apparently gave access to Matt and Sweat to the catwalks behind the cells.

JENSEN: Yeah.

COOPER: Did that surprise you?

JENSEN: No, it doesn't.

COOPER: Really.

JENSEN: Because there's a facility maintenance workers who are inmates as well. They come around and when you're breaker pops in the back because when you plug your plate in...

COOPER: Right.

JENSEN: ... you rig it up. So it pulls out a lot, lot more power because that way you can fry...

COOPER: Right.

JENSEN: ... fish, you can fry chicken, all types of stuff. Now, it pops all the power in your cell was out, your T.V. doesn't work, your light doesn't work, so inmates use to go back there and you pay the maintenance worker to rig up your fuse in the back so that when you have your T.V., your fan, your light and you can be cooking all at the same time and nothing will pop.

COOPER: So, but could the maintenance worker just go back instead of letting the prison go back, why would a prisoner be like... JENSEN: No, there was prison, maintenance workers. There was actually a maintenance work program when you go around and do all these things.

COOPER: I see. So, the maintenance workers actually an inmate himself?

JENSEN: Correct, correct.

COOPER: I see.

JENSEN: You pay in and give him cigarettes whatever it was in there...

COOPER: Right.

JENSEN: ... that he wanted. And...

COOPER: Do you think they'll be -- they're going to be caught?

JENSEN: Yes.

COOPER: You do?

JENSEN: Yes, I do.

COOPER: Why just, I mean it doesn't -- they don't seem to have much experience out in the wilderness but it has been, you know, it has been significant amount of time so far.

JENSEN: It has been but they don't know where they're going. You know their plan fell through the moment they pop their head to that manhole and Joyce was there waving for them. Now, I think they're just going where they have to go in which way.

COOPER: When you were there, did you have a sense of the layout of the prison...

JENSEN: Yes.

COOPER: ... because it seems like they were able to develop a sense of the layout of the prison.

JENSEN: Well, let me tell you something, in the tailor shop, you have windows that face Dannemora. They face actually out over the wall. And you can actually see from the tailor shop windows that street where it intersects and where that manhole cover is...

COOPER: Is that right?

JENSEN: ... you can see the whole town. Yes, you can.

COOPER: That's interesting.

JENSEN: Yes, you can.

COOPER: Erik, I appreciate you being on telling what you know. Thank you so much.

JENSEN: You're very welcome, Anderson.

COOPER: Erik Jensen, really appreciate it. Coming up next is we wait for Gene Palmer's night in court. His arraignment as you heard from Jason could come any moment in this hour or the next Jason Carroll is going there as we speak. We're going to wait to hear from him.

We'll also explore tonight the parallel between this manhunt and the marathon search for Eric Rudolph, the man who lead the effort. He joins us ahead.

And later the remarkable effort to redeem the site of mass murder just a week after it happened. Imagine this, the bible study group that met tonight in the same room of the Emanuel AME Church in Charleston with their senior pastor and eight others were murdered at the hence of a hate-filled killer. These are live pictures. We'll go there shortly.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:16:07]

COOPER: Well there are now two prison workers in custody tonight. Two apparently gullible and allegedly culpable prison workers either in jail or about to be arranged. Gene Palmer's court appearance could happen any moment now. Two prison workers in big trouble tonight.

The two prisoners -- two cold blooded killers of course are still at large. Now it's been nearly three weeks since David Sweat and Richard Matt broke out of prison and emerged from a manhole into a part of New York State where wildlife and acres of wilderness far outnumbered people.

The wilderness and the fact they're still out there somewhere reminds a lot of people of another manhunt for Eric Robert Rudolph, more in the parallels now from Rosa Flores.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He killed three people, injured dozens, and terrorized the nation in the 1990's. Eric Rudolph better known as the Olympic park bomber made the FBI's 10 most wanted list after bombing Centennial Olympic Park during the 1996 Summer Olympics and later bombing two abortion clinics and a lesbian bar.

Former CNN producer Henry Schuster and co-author of "Hunting Eric Rudolph" followed every step of the manhunt.

ERIC SCHUSTER, CO-AUTHOR "HUNT FOR ERIC RUDOLPH": He was smart, he was sly.

FLORES: Rudolph but known loner survival list and trained army vet managed to evade authorities for five years in the thickly wooded appellation wilderness of North Carolina. Early on authorities say he never stayed in camp for too long always on the moved and one step ahead of search teams.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope by his watching there high houses.

FLORES: Nearby residence were on alert well 100 of agent's calm the woods looking for tracks around water sources and inside caves, but the trail ended cold year after year.

SCHUSTER: Eric Rudolph had home field advantage. He'd been playing in these woods since he was a kid. He camped in them when he was a teenager. He knew these woods intimately.

FLORES: Rudolph was spotted in July of 1998, he turned up at the home of the owner of help food store, trying to buy food, the owner recognize him and refused, but when the owner returned two days later he found that 75 pounds of food and his truck were missing on the table five $100 bills.

Authorities say Rudolph killed an eight turkeys, deer, bears, salamanders and stole corns, soybeans and other grain from beans at a giant corn field. To stay warm during bitter cold winters, authorities say he would break into cabins and bundled himself up in piles of leaves.

SCHUSTER: Eric Rudolph was living off the grid before he actually had to go off the gird. I -- it was as if he had been preparing for this.

FLORES: Despite years of searching for Rudolph deep in the woods, he was finally arrested dumpster diving in the back of a grocery store looking for fruits and vegetables to freeze for the winter.

SCHUSTER: It was locked, they have given up the hunt, they've given up the chase and he fell into their laps.

FLORES: After his arrest Rudolph described his chase with police as a long camping trip that lasted five years. Investigators in Upstate, New York hunting for David Sweat and Richard Matt hope it takes significantly less than half a decade to catch this two wanted fugitives. Rosa Flores CNN New York.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Joining us now is former FBI assistant director Chris Swecker who led the hunt for Rudolph also survival expert Shane Hobel, founder and owner of the Mountain Scout Survival School. Chris are this -- is there anything comparable in this kind of manhunt or the hunt for Rudolph because of his being able preposition or pre plan is it just completely different.

CHRIS SWECKER, FMR. FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Well the concepts are the same.

[21:20:00] I mean a manhunt in a rural area is very labor intensive man power intensive, you know, there's you have to set up a perimeter. The difference here is that they really didn't know where they where, they didn't have been in have an immediate area to search them. We had his house and we could work out hours from the house and I was part of the beginning of the fugitive hunt, I came in later as the sort of I think the executive level overseeing the whole thing.

And that point to become a fugitive investigation not so much a manhunt as a real investigation and the country where you start with there was no giving up on it but to take on a different form. At that point you can't keep a thousand officers out there for five years.

COOPER: Yeah, what is the timeline for something like this because I mean you now have thousand people of barely looking for Sweat and Matt, how long can that go on forward?

SWECKER: I think to have get staying power down at Pennsylvania it was one of their own in this case, you know, New York State prison escapee like the state has invested interest and having a lot more staying power than normal. So I think they're going to be out there -- they'll say as long as it takes but in reality there's a time when resources starts to dwindle, you just can't keep that pace up.

In this case, so there's every reason to stay on it because there they are on foot they are probably not as well positioned as Rudolph was, they don't have pre plan sites...

COOPER: Yeah.

SWECKER: ... that they've already prepared, food they already stocked they don't know the area like Rudolph knew that area. He knew it very well.

COOPER: Shane, if you don't know -- if you don't have experience in the forest how difficult is it to survive for weeks and weeks and weeks?

SHANE HOBEL, MOUNTAIN SCOUT, OWNER: Your not. It's simply if you don't have the skills and you don't have the relationship of knowing how to make a proper shelter insulated with or without a fire you have to get out of those elements. They're exhausted they're dehydrated you have a filter water, you can assume that it safe out there, you don't know your edibles your medicinals, simply you be do not have a skills you have to skirt in and around this urban environments and utilize things that you already know you can get.

COOPER: If you don't have preposition supplies and you don't know the wilderness, I mean you have to spend an awful lot of time just on the basics not just escaping but on the basics of finding food and water.

HOBEL: Right, without those cardinal four, you know, in the world of survival, there's always four steps, you know, there's a difference here of between survival situation and let's say have a disaster zone right or something along that line where I want to be found, I want to take the time and to make shelter and purify my water.

In this case that's not the approach. These guys don't want to be found, they don't want to have their, their stuff discovered, they're certainly not going to make a fire in the landscape and having that plumb of smoke. So they're basically using the resources that are already there we have tons of this vacation cabins or seasonal cabins. We don't know what's in there we assumed that one of them is bare foot but how do we know that they didn't take another pair of shoes, we don't know if there was a shock on there or anything else that's available, food, Intel, was the radio still working, do they grab a radio was there -- is internet still working. We have no idea. So survival in that environment absolutely brutal if you don't have the skills. That's why you're going to find this guys stringing in and out of this suburban urban areas.

COOPER: Which is a reminder, Chris, of why it's so crucial that the information is still out there and the people keep their eyes open because it very well may not be the actual searchers who spot one of these guys or both of this guys it might be a civilian who's living out there.

SWECKER: Absolutely. That is law enforcement and the overall manhunts single most effective tool is keeping their faces in the press, keeping the information out there and using, you know, the force multiplier of getting everyone in the area looking for them. And if do you see something, say something. I don't think there's anybody in the area that would pick up the phone and call if they saw something.

COOPER: Yeah, no doubt about it. Chris Swecker, I appreciate you being on again. Shane Hobel as well. Fascinating stuff.

Again, a Dennamora prison guard, Gene Palmer, facing charges tonight, we'll bring you a live report on that momentarily.

Also tonight, hostage ransoms. The families of Kayla Mueller, James Foley and others murdered by ISIS wanted to pay to get their loved ones back, U.S. government told them, no. Today a bitter sweet victory but will the new White House policy save lives or put more people in danger? A hostage survivor and his wife weigh in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:27:56]

COOPER: Talking with terrorist and other kidnappers will no longer mean legal trouble for families since love ones are held hostage. Today President Obama ordered changes in the U.S. hostage policy. He's giving families the green light to pay ransom for their kidnapped love ones without the fear of prosecution.

Also today astounding emission. The White House confirms more than 30 Americans are being held hostage abroad. It includes those held by terror groups, drug cartels, and criminal gangs.

And President Obama is vowing those families will no longer feel abandoned.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITES STATES OF AMERICA: Many of the families told us that they at times felt like an after thought or destruction that too often the law enforcement or military and intelligence officials they where interacting with where begrudging in giving them information.

And that ends today. I'm making it clear that these families are also be treated like what they are, our trusted partners and active partners in the recovery of their love ones.

COOPER: Well many families have certainly asked for that including those who have murdered ISIS American hostage Kayla Mueller and James Foley. She was an aid worker. He was an American journalist. Both were kidnapped in Syria. Their parents where outraged and embarrassed in how the government dealt with their cases telling them not to talk about Kayla or James in public and never to exchange money with terrorists because they might be prosecuted.

Tonight those rules are history. Families can now openly fight for freedom. Joining me to talk about the shift, a hostage survivor David Rohde and his wife Kristen Mulvihill. She met with the president today to talk about these changes. David was kidnapped by the Taliban escaped seven months later. He's now an investigative reporter and writer and a CNN global analyst.

David, first of we've talked a lot about this over the last several years why do you make of this announcement the shift in policy is it a step you believe in the right direction?

DAVID ROHDE, CNN GLOBAL ANALYST: I think it's a step in the right direction. And as you said it's a victory for these families. They where all at this meeting all four families of the hostages the American hostages were killed, the Foleys, the Muellers as you mentioned, and also the parents of Steven Sotloff and Peter Kasich.

[21:30:06] And it -- it's amazing that they came, you know, participated in this review it's been a month's long process and then came back to Washington and face all these feelings and all these memories and all the frustrations. But, you know, it's a real achievement what they've -- what happened today for them.

COOPER: And Kristen you did the same. You were at the meeting to day between the President and the families of hostages. What was it like?

KRISTEN MULVIHILL, DAVID ROHDE'S WIFE: Yes. It was a very serious environment, but, you know, the President came in, he was very personable. He made a point to go around to each person and check their hand on the way in and at the end of the session.

And he started of by saying he could relate to this. He thought about this not only as president but as a father and as a spouse and that really resonated with the families. And he also, you know, said he understood that as family members, your sole goal is to bring your family member home and he understood that people would want to go to any lengths to do that.

So, the families really appreciated that.

COOPER: David, it is an odd law and that the administration is walking here. And one hand saying, "It's still US government policy that paying ransoms, terrorist is prohibited." While on the other hand saying that, "It basically would ignore the law where families are involved."

ROHDE: It's true. And that's the sort of core problem here. I mean this is a compromise that doesn't -- again, these are steps forward, but, you know, these families, you know, they asked me and I think they asked the President today, will these, you know, changes necessarily bring people home? And they won't necessarily.

The issue is, you know, paying ransoms or releasing prisoners. European governments, we've talked about it, have paid, you know, tens of millions of dollars in ransoms. And, you know, the thing that would bring people home would be if the U.S. government would start doing that. Most Americans opposed that according to opinion poll.

So, today is sort of a compromise. At the least, it's a step forward and that along with being victimized by kidnappers, these families won't be victimized the second time by their own government.

COOPER: And David on the fact that these families were now -- they'd be allowed to pay ransoms but they're essentially going to be competing now against European governments that are -- can pay far more, they're going to have to be trying to raise large sums of money.

ROHDE: Absolutely. The -- no one knows the exact amount is, but I think in Syria, European governments directly or indirectly were paying at least $1 or $2 million per captive. What, you know, average American family can raise that kind of money?

COOPER: Kristen, something is being added to the new policy is what's called the family engagement coordinator to act as a single point of contact between families and the government in hostage situations. I'm wondering in David's case, would that have been a useful resource for you.

MULVIHILL: It would have been useful. It would have streamlined the process, you know, during -- the beginning of a kidnapping there's such a steep learning curve learning about where your love one's being held, who to go to in the government. So, if there is already an -- a person appointed to you, I think that's very useful.

I'm also very curious to see who will be appointed as the diplomatic envoy. I think that's very important as well.

COOPER: David, lastly, on the fact that more than 30 Americans are currently being held hostage, were you aware the number was that high because that's the number I had not heard before.

ROHDE: I hadn't heard it. You know, I was surprised as well. And again, the slightly coordination where Europe is paying and that crazy incentive and then you have growing sort of safe havens where people can be held, you know, there's obviously Syria. I was held in Pakistan, now you have state collapse in Libya, in Yemen.

The only place where they've reduced kidnappings worldwide is Columbia and the Philippines and that's where local arm forces with U.S. training actually shrunk the safe havens, the areas where they ca hold captives. That seems to be the only long-term solution that's slowing this down.

COOPER: It's incredible. Kristen Mulvihill, I appreciate you being on. It's great to have you. David Rohde as well.

MULVIHILL: Thank you. Thanks.

COOPER: Thank you both. Up next we're going to live, Jason Carroll outside the courthouse where correction's officer charged in connection tonight with the escape of Richard Matt and David Sweat arrived a short time ago, hours after the body of slain Senator Clementa Pinckney arrived at the State House to lie and repose bible study resumed inside the Charleston Church where he and others were murdered one week ago. An extraordinary event tonight on Martin Savidge was there. We'll talk to him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:38:07]

COOPER: More breaking news tonight on Charleston, South Carolina at the Emanuel AME church did something remarkable inside the very same room were nine people were murdered one week ago, bible study resumed.

It could not have been easy, a step forward in the wake of the measurable loss. On Friday, funeral as you know will be held for State Senator Reverend Clementa Pinckney who died inside the church he loved so much.

President Obama is going to deliver eulogy. Martin Savidge joins us now.

Now, you were inside that room at the bible study. Talk to me about what it was like.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was very difficult to go onto the room. And, of course, I didn't lose anyone and it's not my church, but you cannot walk into that basement room and not feel just an overwhelming sense of tragedy. That was the space, this was the place, exactly one week ago tonight where nine people were brutally murdered.

And people there have felt it too, you saw the embraces. And it was that kind of hole on to me. I'm not sure I can hold together kind of embrace. The Reverend began -- Reverend Goff and he said, you know, "We realized the tragedy here will never be the same, but we are moving on." He talked about love. He talked about the gift of forgiveness.

And one of the great moments was when he spread his arms to the room and said, "We reclaim this space for God." But you could not overlook the nine people who were missing including Reverend Pinckney. Today, his body lay in state down in the Capitol because he not only served his church, he serves his state. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Escorted by fellow legislators, a horse drawn case on carried Reverend and State Senator Clementa Pinckney for one last time to the State House he worked in since he was 23. He was carried to the second floor of the Lyons State.

Pinckney's legislative legacy stretches back 18 years, but it's his passionate push for one recent bill many believe will truly bring justice for all in this state.

[21:40:05] It was after that other South Carolina shooting that shocked America.

Horrifying video captured the moment an unarmed North Charleston man, Walter Scott was shot and killed by a police officer last April.

Michael Slager was fired and charged with murder largely-based on this witness cellphone video.

Two days after the world sought a deep voice spoke out.

REV. CLEMENTA PINCKNEY, STAE SENATOR SOUTH CAROLINA: Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Clementa Pinckney.

SAVIDGE: South Carolina was already considering police body camera legislation but Scott's death and Pinckney's drive gave bill new urgency.

PINCKNEY: Every person in South Carolina needs to know that they will have equal protection under the law and that a badge and a gun does not give someone superiority.

SAVIDGE: Pinckney's district stretches from Charleston County to Georgia but he knew the controversy over Scott's death went far beyond.

PINCKNEY: This is speaking to the soul of America.

SAVIDGE: To Pinckney, other members of the state black caucus, body cameras would bring transparency to a South Carolina justice system they felt was often distorted by race.

In May, the man often called the moral conscience of the general assembly rose once more to push his colleagues to act.

PINCKNEY: It is my hope that a South Carolina senators, that we will stand up for what is best and good about our state.

SAVIDGE: On June 4th, the legislation demanding body cameras for all South Carolina police officers was approved by the General Assembly with only of dissenting vote.

Six days later, Governor Nikki Haley signed the bill handling the pen that she used to Walter Scott's mother and there at the right second row back was the state senator who had been so move by violence he held the bill support for the new law.

It was June 10th, exactly one week before another camera would capture hate walking through the door of Emanuel AME church silencing forever a powerful voice for change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Just one week before. What do we know about when the other people who were murdered, when they will be laid to rest?

SAVIDGE: Well, we know that the funerals will begin tomorrow in fact there were will funerals now every day all the way through the weekend including on Monday. There are many, many grieving families with breaking hearts here.

COOPER: No doubt about that. Martin Savidge, I appreciate you're reporting. Thanks for being there.

Coming up next back to the prison story in correction Officer Gene Palmer his night in court, the second prison worker now charged. We got a live report of what happened just a moment ago right after the quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:46:28]

COOPER: The breaking news, Gene Palmer, prison guard of the Clinton Correctional Facility becoming the second worker there charged in the wake of the jail break 19 days ago.

We've just got this photo of him arriving in court tonight in Plattsburgh, New York. Prison seamstress, Joyce Mitchell, was the first one charged inaction with the escape of Sweat and Matt, now Palmer.

Jason Carroll has the latest in the charges and his night in court. He joins us by phone from outside the court house. So, Jason, what happened?

CARROLL: Well, (inaudible) everything that took place all this evening, Anderson. Another hearing will occur tomorrow at 4:00. The attorney tells me -- Gene Palmer's attorney tells me that he will be entering a plea of not guilty.

He's facing several charges promoting dangerous contraband, destroying evidence, official misconduct. I'm also told that there was a possibility, Anderson, that he also could have face an aiding and abetting charge which -- than he even more serious. However, the district attorney I'm hearing was -- did not chose to follow up on those charges simply because Gene Palmer have been cooperating with investigators for a period of time. And so, that they did not go after that particular charge.

His attorney wanted to make it very clear to me that he and Mitchell -- yes, that he did pass that burger flab meat onto Richard Matt but he did not know what was inside of that flab of meat. He said he is extremely distraught. He worked at the correctional facility for 28 years. He is 57 years old. At this point, he is still in custody.

Again, tomorrow during that hearing, his attorney tells me that he will be entering a not guilty plead, Anderson.

COOPER: And Jason, I understand you're actually there with Mr. Palmer's attorney now Andrew Brockway. If you could just hand him the phone because we're obviously having satellite issue but though, we just hope to speak to Mr. Brockway on the telephone. Mr. Brockway, it's Anderson Cooper. Are you there?

ANDREW BROCKWAY, GENE PALMER'S ATTORNEY: Yes. I am, sir.

COOPER: Great. Thank you so much. First of all, the charges against your client -- Jason is reporting that your client is going to be pleading not guilty through them. The charge of destroying evidence is that related to drawings or paintings that your client allegedly receive from one of these prisoners.

BROCKWAY: Anderson, at this time, like (ph) this really happening really quickly so I'm not going to comment specifically on the charges tonight.

COOPER: OK. But your client is pleading not guilty to all of the charges.

BROCKWAY: He will be answering the plea of not guilty.

COOPER: I talked to the district attorney earlier who said he believed your client did not know there was contraband in the meat. Where you surprise that these charges were filed when they were?

BROCKWAY: Yeah. I believe it's fair to say that the district attorney and myself were both surprised. State police are the ones that filed the charges. I've got a text from the district attorney. We're both surprised this happen very quickly.

Mr. Palmer has been completely cooperative with the investigation. I was told by New York state police investigator that he was safe from the charge of aiding and abetting in the stake (ph).The district attorney have said publicly that he does not believe that my client knew that the escape was being planned and we plan on -- my client understands, Anderson, that this is a public emergency.

He wants to help us with any information that he has. He will give that over to the state police and the FBI. He understands that he made a mistake with the whole meat fiasco but he will continue to cooperate. He is a very -- he is a man of integrity who made some mistake.

COOPER: The district attorney also said that your client took a polygraph test and according to the authorities he passed that polygraph test about whether or not he knew there was contraband inside the meat.

[21:50:08]

BROCKWAY: That's true. He -- we took the polygraph test. He has nothing to hide. He has been completely transparent about this whole process. I'm very proud of him. It's an honor to represent Gene Palmer. He is hard worker. He -- if you talked to anyone in the community, they will speak very highly of Mr. Palmer.

COOPER: The district...

BROCKWAY: He did not know that they are planning of this escape.

COOPER: The district attorney had said that your client did give access to the catwalk behind the cell to one or both of these men allegedly to repair a breaker that had switched. Is that your understanding?

BROCKWAY: I won't comment specifically on whether or not my client gave that but it would be passed to other corrections officers. It's common practice that imitates were allowed to cook in their cells and by doing that they had to access wiring in the prison but I won't comment any -- on any specifics regarding Mr. Palmer at this time.

COOPER: And how would you describe your client's state of mind at this time?

BROCKWAY: Well, obviously this is the biggest story that we've had in upstate New York in quite some time probably ever. He doesn't like this attention. He is a very private person. He cares on a day-to- day basis for his ailing wife. She wants to be able to continue to do that. We will be posting bond as soon as we can and he looks forward to the day when he can move on with his life.

COOPER: All right. And do you know what -- if he was found guilty of all these charges, do you know what kind of time he will be facing?

BROCKWAY: I don't know at this time, Anderson. Like I said, this all happened very quickly but it's our intent to cooperate with the investigation and hopefully that will lead to a more feasible disposition.

COOPER: Andrew Brockway, it's always good to talk to you. Thank you, Andrew.

Up next, the family of Freddie Gray is speaking out to night through their attorney about their son's leaked autopsy report. Could it hurt their case and who leaked it? Details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:55:59]

COOPER: Well, there's no shortage of news tonight including developments at Baltimore the death of Freddie Gary while in police custody. Now his family responding through their attorney to the leak that blind sighted them. Yesterday, the "Baltimore Sun" reported the findings in Mr. Gray's autopsy after obtaining a copy of the report. According to paper, state medical examiner found that Mr. Gray suffered a high energy injury while riding in the Baltimore police van in April and injury that was by caused when the van suddenly slowed down.

The report says Mr. Gray's death was a homicide because officers did not follow safety producers. Six officers have been charged as you know. They've all pleaded not guilty. Freddie -- the family -- the Gray family attorney Billy Murphy Jr. joins me now.

First all, how surprised were you by this and how concerned were you in fact that this autopsy report leaked out?

WILLIAM MURPHY JR., ATTORNEY FOR FREDDIE GRAY'S FAMILY: Anderson, it was a shock because in an orderly process that exist in the criminal courts, you will notice before something like this happens and one of the reasons that you do that is so that you can prepare your clients for the fact that the grisly details of what happened to their son and their brother are getting away to come out and you walk them through it in a way that calms them and reassures them.

So when it comes out suddenly that the whole world is all of a sudden into the most eminent details of your dead son's life directly and indirectly in the horrific condition of the body is described to you that's another matter all together. And it was very unfortunately.

And the other thing is that whoever leaked this and I have my suspicious about who did, whoever leaked this is frustratingly (inaudible) administration of justice.

COOPER: Well, let me ask you about that because people leak information for a specific reason. Why do you think this was leaked? Do you think it was intentional? Did they believe it somehow harmed your case? What do you think was behind it or who?

MURPHY: Well, let's go through the list of suspects. I don't suspect the prosecutor because that's the last thing they wanted to do and they are currently court to seal the autopsy report.

I don't suspect the defense lawyers because they are honorable guys and they are too smart to do this at this point because they don't want to be blamed for any adverse publicity, any publicity at all surrounding this case because they want to persuade the court to move the case out of Baltimore.

COOPER: Do you think in the police department?

MURPHY: Yes, and they've all lawyers have all denied it. The state's attorney office denied it. We didn't do it and so that leads one suspect doesn't it? And that would be the police and they have every interest in trying to help their brother to get this case out of Baltimore. I think that's what's it was all about.

COOPER: Do you think this was a desire to get the case moved elsewhere? MURPHY: Yes. Because this is a clean controversy in their view, I mean there is no other news going on about the case and so everything that will be written will be about speculating about the autopsy report pro and con.

Those who support the police are going to try to give the best arguments in favor of why the autopsy report helps them. Those who support Freddie Gray are going to try to or the prosecutions are going to try to give the contrary argument.

And so this creates a side show which the police hope will then knew (ph) to the benefit of their brotherhood. So that's my suspicion.

COOPER: Well...

MURPHY: I don't know to a degree of uncertainty but I would bet on it.

COOPER: ... Billy Murphy I appreciate your time tonight. I appreciate you being with us. We're obviously going to continue following this case closely. Thank you very much for being with us.

And just a quickly recap, Gene Palmer the correction's -- the first correction's guard officer to actually be arrested and implicated in -- for violating policy and in the escape of these two has been arraigned.

[22:00:03] We got more details on that tomorrow.

We'll see you again 11:00 P.M. Easter, another edition of 360. CNN tonight with Don Lemon starts now.