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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Debris Could Be From Malaysia Airlines Flight 370; Australian Official: MH370 Debris Could Have Traveled Far; Boeing Suggests Debris Consistent With 777; Deposition Meltdown; Trump On Lawyer: "She's A Vicious, Horrible Person"; Could Trump Hurt GOP with Women Voters?; Traffic Stop Murder Indictment; "Asinine" White Cop Charged With Killing Black Man; Afghan Govt.: Taliban Leader Died 2013; Search For Missing Teen Boaters
Aired July 29, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON COOPER, AC360 HOST: Thanks for joining us for a second live hour of "360". The breaking news tonight, the debris found off the coast of a remote island in the Western Indian Ocean could be from missing Malaysia airlines Flight 370. The Malaysian government has sent a team to Reunion Island to investigate the debris. CNN's David Molko has been speaking with the head of the Australian agency that's been leading the search for MH370. He joins me now live.
So David, the Australian official you spoke to, what exactly did he have to say about this piece of debris?
DAVID MOLKO, CNN REPORTER: Anderson, what he is saying is that the pieces here are starting to come together. He won't directly say whether or not this is from MH370 but it is clear that they are taking a very close look at it. Remember, this search has been going on off the coast of Australia some 2,000 miles away from where this piece was picked up since April or May of 2014. They have been searching deep underwater since October.
Now, really interesting, Martin Dolan, the top transport investigator in Australia now is saying, they have done some drift modeling, they haven't made this public but where this piece was picked up Anderson, is not inconsistent with that drift modeling. "It is not inconsistent." These are the words he's using choosing them very carefully. It is not inconsistent with the current search zone for MH370.
What he says is that the Australians are working very closely with the Malaysians and the French on this. They are taking this extremely seriously and with a lot of sensitivity. Anderson.
COOPER: And are authorities giving any kind of timeline as to what the confirmation process actually looks like?
MOLKO: Anderson, it's clear that they're going to try to look at the pieces close as possible on the ground if they cannot identify it based on serial numbers, as some of our experts like David Soucie and Mary Sciavo have been saying. They may have to take it somewhere else.
It is looking like that will not be Australia. What I am hearing from the Australians though for the first time though is that when the black boxes, the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder or if those are eventually recovered, they will be brought to the lab in Cambra.
Remember here, Australia leading the search. Malaysia's still leading the investigation. A lot of stake holders here especially China, Anderson, with the most passengers on board that plane. As we look at these pictures, we cannot forget the 239 passengers and crew and the 239 families, Anderson, were watching this very closely.
COOPER: Yeah, still waiting for answers. David Molko, appreciate your reporting. Tom Foreman joins me with more on the debris and what it could tell investigators.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Anderson. Just as we have been looking at the piece of debris all afternoon so have the experts at Boeing and they have looked at this seven foot by three foot piece and they see something in these pictures that tells them it's likely part of a 777 and that is what the missing Malaysia airplane was.
What sort of part? Well let's roll it around here and talk about this because our analysts have been looking at it and they basically say that it would likely be part of the back side of one of these wings here. So the first criteria has been met here for a match. It is the right type of piece for this to be part of the missing plane. It's also the right color. We've talked about that a good bit being the right color and the right condition.
It's consistent with something that has been floating in water for some 500 days. We're still waiting on the identifiers on it here. By that, I mean some sort of serial number because most big parts on big planes like this seat cushion from a different plane have serial numbers on them. If you find the serial number on this piece they have discovered and it matches the Malaysia airplane, then that's it. We will know absolutely that the plane crashed, Anderson.
COOPER: And still the big question is how did it get there?
FOREMAN: Yeah, and this won't necessarily answer that. Let's get rid of everything and talk about the map. Remember, all along we have been talking about search areas over near Australia because it was believed that the plane came down and crashed some where out in here. And this is where the search areas are. So how do you have something all the way over here in the coast of Africa? Could it have simply flown that way and instead?
What if all the theories were wrong? Well, you know, that's not very likely because look, this thing's going to run out of fuel way short of the target here so that's not a likely scenario. More likely, according to our analyst is the original idea was right. And that it did come down into these search areas somewhere. [21:05:00] And then the currents took over. And those currents started carrying it across the ocean way over to Reunion Island.
So you think about all that, you think about the possibility of finding a serial number, you'd say, "Why don't we have an answer really fast?" It seems like authorities are taking a go slow approach because after all this time, they certainly don't want false hopes. They don't want to get it wrong. But we may be on the verge of at least some kind of answers here. Anderson?
COOPER: All right Tom, thank you very much. A lot to talk about with CNN aviation correspondent, Richard Quest, CNN safety analyst, and former FAA Accident Investigator, Inspector, David Soucie, author of the book "Malaysian Airlines Flight 370" and CNN aviation analyst Les Abend, 777 captain and contributing editor of "Flying Magazine".
Les, first of all, what do you make of this piece of debris and what if it is part of the plane of 370? What it tells you about what may have happened?
LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Yes, it is very compelling, Anderson. You know, especially with Boeing, making an initial assessment that this indeed is a unique structure. I mean my first reaction when I saw this it looks too bulky to be what they indicated. We've been talking about flaperons.
COOPER: Right.
ABEND: It was a combination of flap and ailerons. And then there's another aspect to it as far as the length of it. You know, when I walk around an airplane in a preflight in a 777, it seemed smaller than that. So I'm a little skeptical from that standpoint but remember, I've seen this airplane intact, in pristine shape.
COOPER: Right.
ABEND You know, with all the parts and pieces together but where it is, and all of the other sciences behind it, I think in the end it might actually validate all of the M.R. SAT data, the trajectory information of the accident investigation team's talking about. So it's indeed possible.
COOPER: David, do you agree with that that it could validate kind of everything that was previously believed?
DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFTEY ANALYST: It could, yes, indeed and I want to make sure that we don't jump the gun on this and say sit is that part yet.
COOPER: Sure.
SOUCIE: However, I am very convinced that it is. There's a lot of things that indicate that it is, the numbers on it, the BB760 or 670 that's on it is either an inspection stamp or a part stamp that they put on the subsets or the subparts for example Mitsubishi makes some of the parts and that's the stamp that they would use for a series or for an application for those parts. So I'm really convinced it is. But yes, it could definitely validate that there's some good information we can get from the condition of that part as well to lead us into what, how it may have hit the water.
COOPER: Richard, how long would it take to get an official confirmation whether or not this is from 370? I mean, seems like it should be a relatively straight forward process. Obviously, they don't want to make any mistakes.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, you just summed it up. You not only got to ensure you don't make any mistakes. You have to determine how best to release this information. Having had so many false starts, so many improper information releases, you have to decide how do you tell families in China, in Australia, or in Malaysia, the 15 nations, where they all came from, I think it is, do you tell them first? Do you announce it? And remember, it's the BEA, it's the French authorities that have custody of this particular piece because it's in Reunion which is part of a French territory. They will have to work through the Malaysians.
Look, it's not bureaucracy but there is a protocol and a process. They've got it wrong in the past. They could be about to give the families the one piece of closure, that maybe the only piece of closure they'll ever get in this case. They better get it right.
COOPER: Yeah. Well, I want to talk more about this with all of you. Just stay with us. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to continue this conversation.
And also ahead as Richard mentioned, the search for the flight. We'll take a look back at all of the false lead that we have seen. What it has been like for the families and the loved ones of the 239 people board that plane waiting all this time more than a year. A roller coaster of false lead and false hopes and unanswered questions. I'm going to speak with the partner of one of the passengers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:12:10]
COOPER: As we have been reporting debris found off the coast of a remote island in the Indian Ocean is being analyzed to see if it is in fact from the missing Malaysian Airline Flight 370. Back now with Richard Quest, David Soucie, and Les Abend. Les, this part -- and I keep blinking on the name because I've never heard this -- the name -- what is that?
ABEND: A flaperon.
COOPER: Flaperon. Explain what a flaperon is.
ABEND: Well a flaperon, it serves a two functions first of all it flaps in on themselves allow the Airplane to have greater lift at slower air speeds.
COOPER: Right. ABEND: OK, changes the camber of the wing.
COOPER: So it's the thing behind the front of the wing and it goes up and down?
ABEND: Right. It's called -- it's a trail in the edge of the wing.
COOPER: OK, here's the graphic of it now.
ABEND: Exactly. And the ailerons what did the airplane roll which begins the turn. So these two combined together in one control device, called a flaperon, so it slower speeds, you know, functions as nail, right, (ph) and also as a flap device.
COOPER: The fact that there is a large piece -- and again if it is from 370, does that tell you how the plane went down? I mean a click -- does it surprise you there is this big of a piece?
ABEND: Well, I will defer, you know to David to correct me on this but it is a more vulnerable part of the wing. So, you know, it's attached by various attachments, actuators on and so forth. So it's vulnerable and that it can get knocked off probably first. That being said, you know, the whole part of it possibly would indicate how it impacted the water in other words.
In basic accident investigation, you talk about low speed events or high speed events.
COOPER: Right.
ABEND: It could potentially show if it was a high speed event. It'll...
COOPER: Let's ask David because...
ABEND: Sure.
COOPER: ... David, you investigate these kind of crashes. Does it tell you about the speed of what happened?
SOUCIE: It can but more likely what it will tell you is did the wing hit first or did the flaperon hit first? Because if it's the wing that hits first then the flaperon goes forward and collide with the back of the wing and you would see that really evident on the leading edge of the flaperon.
So what we are seeing here is that the leading edge of the flaperon is not substantially damaged. So what that indicates to me is that the flaperon was deployed, either as a low speed aileron device or just as a flap in itself.
So the fact -- what it looks like to me because both of the supports for this are broken off at the same time, same place it looks like, because I don't have the pictures I'm not there -- but those things -- the supports hang down below this. So it would indicate to me that it was deployed in some way. Probably, 10 degrees or it can go as low as 36 degrees but at 10 degrees position even at that, if the aircraft came in at a fairly level position it could have ripped that off before the wing hit the water.
COOPER: And, David, would it be possible that there would be more debris close to this island or is this just -- would this be I mean the one only?
[21:15:00]
SOUCIE: Well, I -- well, here's the situation is that even if there were a lot of debris as far back as well are talking because how the ocean moves, even in an accident site where you have a ton of lot of debris if only within days within a few days. And you remember during the search back in April and May of 2014, when it first started, we talked about how the stuff spreads out so quickly that it would be odd in fact to find two parts or three parts very close together...
COOPER: Right.
SOUCIE: ...this far down the road.
COOPER: Richard, David Gallo in the last hour we're saying that obviously if it was from 370 this would be a huge boost for the searchers who were exhausted. They've been out there for, you know, for months and months, and months in very difficult conditions.
That being said, is there anything else this can -- besides giving a boost to the searchers can tell about where the impact site would have actually been?
QUEST: Well, you're going into the exceptionally sophisticated reverse drift in the ATSP of the Australians. They have their own and bespoke drift mechanism. They used it initially after the search was happened. I forget the exact name of it but it is something that their own authorities have developed.
Now, what -- they will take this, if it is they will take it they will reverse drift it and yes, as Martin Dolan and the commissioner said tonight, where it is, is not inconsistent with where they believe the crash site to be.
But, and this is the unfortunate bit, it will not help in one Iota in narrowing necessarily that 120,000 square kilometers that they are searching as the most probable site.
COOPER: Right.
QUEST: It will not narrow that down much more. Too much time, too much distance has now been put in place.
COOPER: And that's certainly a hard news for the families if in fact this is from 370. Richard, thank you, David Soucie, Les Abend, is great to have you here. For the families, as I said and other love ones of the 239 people, imagine that, 239 people aboard that flight, there been no easy days since March 8, 2014 when the plane disappeared, they'll be no answers, no conclusions.
Joining me Sarah Bajc, whose partner Philips Wood was on the plane.
Sarah, the first time when you heard this latest news debris might have been discovered what went through your mind?
SARAH BAJC, PARTNER WAS ON MH370: Well, my initial response is what I've tried to do the whole way through, is to disbelieve it until there some kind of verification because there's been, you know, hundreds of these false claims along the way. And it's just too exhausting to try to track all of them.
COOPER: Right. I would imagine every time -- as you said, there have been a number of objects that they thought might be part of the plane. I imagine every time this happens, it's just got to risk bringing it all back?
BAJC: Well my heart has been in my throat for most of the day. So yeah, that certainly happens.
COOPER: Obviously, many family members who were very critical of the Australian and Malaysian investigation teams, you've gone so far as to say you feel like they were covering information up. Do you still feel that way?
BAJC: Absolutely. In fact I have become more and more certain that the Malaysian government has taken active steps to cover up things that they did wrong along the way and to interfere with the search process.
COOPER: And I understand you actually hired a private investigator to look into this?
BAJC: We did but the investigator was not looking for the plane. The investigator was looking to find somebody who would be willing to talk. And they interviewed dozens and dozens of people. They were threatened. They had long term sources refuse to talk to them, and basically scared them away from working on the case.
But we never did find any kind of proof.
COOPER: And I know I mean you've always said without proof you still had hoped the passengers on the plane like your partner Philip could be still alive. Is that still the case today?
BAJC: Well, it's ultimately this is the piece of the wing, then that little thread of hope that I've been holding on to will, will have to break. And reality will have to take over. But, yeah, up until now, I and most of the family members have continued to believe that until we have a body we can't give up hoping they'd still come back.
COOPER: And I know for some family members, you know, there was paperwork that they were supposed to fill out but that's been difficult because people have been wanted to take that next step.
BAJC: Well they haven't wanted to and they haven't been capable of doing it. Because there is no proof, there is no proof of death. There is no substance to even show what had happened. So it's just a giant black hole.
COOPER: Sarah, I appreciate you being with us. And I'm sorry to be talking to you under these circumstances. And I wish you the best.
[21:20:00]
BAJC: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Hard to imagine that way. For more on this story and others you can go to CNN.com.
Just a head tonight, a chapter from Donald Trump's past that's raising some questions for some about his ability to control his temper and his tongue. A lawyer describing what happened when she asked to take a break during a deposition. So she could pump breast milk for her baby. The question is it really relevant? Do his supporters care? We'll talk about that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Donald Trump will face his Republican rivals next week in Cleveland on the debate stage. Today though, a chapter from his past was front and center. A lawyer who grilled Trump during a deposition in lawsuit spoke out today giving her version of what happened when she asked to take a break to pump breast milk for her infant daughter during a deposition. The New York Times first reported the details on CNN's "New Day" this morning, Elizabeth Beck confirmed the account.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH BECK, ATTORNEY WHO DEPOSED DONALD TRUMP: He had an absolute meltdown. When I said that I needed the break and it was for breast pumping purposes, he got up, his face got red, he shook his finger at me, and he screamed "You're disgusting. You're disgusting:" and he ran out of there. And we were not able to conclude his deposition that day.
[21:25:01] It was concluded in South Florida where he flew down and I was able to conclude my deposition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well CNN's Dana Bash sat down with Trump today for a very wide ranging interview. She joins me now. He was -- he talked about this?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He did. He was ready for it. He actually was watching CNN's "New Day" this morning and watched her -- the lawyer say -- what she said, and started tweeting about it. So I knew he was primed and ready to respond. Listen to what he said. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: She said you got up, shook your finger, screamed, "You're disgusting, you're disgusting" and ran out.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: OK. I watched that and I thought it was disgraceful. She's a terrible attorney. She lost her case to me. In fact, I won legal fees. The judge awarded legal fees which is pretty rare when you get that but we beat her soundly. She's got a terrible reputation. In my opinion, she's got just a terrible reputation.
Other lawyers have called me up say well, how bad she was. Bottom line, I beat her and what happened is in the middle of everything, it wasn't breast-feed, you used the word breast-feed. It was breast pump. She wanted to pump in front of me during a deposition.
BASH: The way she described it was that she wanted to take a break so she could take the pump out.
TRUMP: Not true. In fact if you asked my lawyer who was there, he said I've never seen anything like it. She wanted to breast pump in front of me and I may have said that's disgusting, I may have said something else. I thought it was terrible. She is a horrible person, knows nothing about me. I see her she's now the great expert on Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You know, I heard from some Trump supporters, they said look, "This just makes the media look bad. This doesn't make Trump look bad. This has much to do about nothing just digging up stuff from years ago from a deposition." Do you think it has any staying power? Does it matter to people?
BASH: You now, probably not. I think this at this point, like a Rorschach test. People who already are enamored of Donald Trump are going to see this and say, "Oh my gosh, here we go." You know, it's either the media or it's his opponents...
COOPER: Right.
BASH: ... digging up dirt. And the people who are already like, you know, sort of disgusted with him will be even more disgusted with him at this point. But look, I mean I think, the bottom line is that he is in the political big leagues now. He's used to being in the Hollywood big leagues and real estate big leagues and business. And this is what happens and there are people who...
COOPER: Also you made the point to him which I thought was interesting during the interview and I hadn't thought it out in those terms but I think you're right which is that you know, if you were an established politician you have a track record of voting...
BASH: Right. COOPER: ... that reporters, everybody can go back on the look on because you have been in the business world, you don't have the track record and so you end up looking where you can and there's information from lawsuits, there's information from, you know, his -- where he was at when he was -- the various parties he was registered with over the years.
BASH: That's right. Look, it's our responsibility as reporters to figure out the best way to allow voters to judge a candidate. Of course, as he said to me, he is going to try to put his best foot forward. All politicians do. All people do. That makes perfect sense. But when people don't have the information that's readily available, public information, he's a private person, it is our responsibility to get these things out there.
Now, having said that, this is obviously very much a he said/she said situation ad I guess it's his lawyer versus her lawyer situation as well. So this particular incident we're never really going to know.
COOPER: Right. And also, a deposition which are nasty things to begin with and if what he says is correct, she lost. You know, there's a lot of hard feelings no doubt involved for everybody. Dana, fascinating interview.
BASH: Thanks, Andy.
COOPER: Really great to have you on. Thank you.
That 2011 deposition certainly had a lot of people talking tonight. But how does it factor in the White House race if at all? Does it factor much beyond today really?
Earlier I spoke to CNN panel commentators Donna Brazile and S.E. Cupp. Also, national team party leader in terms of order Katrina Pierson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: S.E., you saw the exchange there about Donald Trump. You head with attorney he said, "Does any of this matter? I mean, is it fair to bring up something that was allegedly said in a deposition years and years ago?"
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean I guess it's colorful. I don't know that it has anything to do with Trump's policies and once again, every time, something like this comes up, we're not asking Donald Trump about what he would do as president.
I remember back about a year ago when stories an audio came out of Hillary Clinton laughing about the case she defended of a child rapist who she thought was probably guilty. That seems a lot more damning than this person's allegation against Donald Trump and yet that didn't really, that didn't really go anywhere. So I'm not really sure that this story, though colorful, is really going to have all that much impact on the race.
COOPER: I will say to Dana's credit, she did ask about policies and trying to pin him down on specifics where...
CUPP: Sure as you have.
COOPER: Yes.
CUPP: As you have many times.
[21:30:00]
COOPER: But it's not an easy thing to do.
CUPP: It's hard.
COOPER: It's not an easy thing to do.
CUPP: Right.
COOPER: Katrina, does that bother you at all with Donald Trump? I mean you're a supporter of Donald Trump and I'm interested. You know, do you want to hear -- do you expect to hear specifics for him or for you is his appeal and what you believe he'd be able to do beyond specific policies?
KATRINA PIERSON, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well Anderson, here's the thing. We're very early in the process. Everyone is going to have to talk about their policies. But in this particular case when everyone doesn't mention about this is this is also the lawyer who lost.
And Mr. Trump failed to mention, not only did she lose, but it was a jury decision. She had to pay him $400,000 and she's on appeal as we speak. So of course, she's going to be out there trying to capitalize on Trump's rise in politics. This is nothing. I think it just going to go away. It's just somebody else trying to go after the Donald as he continues to rise in the polls.
COOPER: Donna, is that -- I mean is that a fair assessment. You know, clearly those who oppose Donald Trump hope this will affect him on women's issues so called. Do you believe in will? Is it fair again to bring up something in a deposition from years ago?
BRAZILE: Well, as Dana pointed out in her piece and in her conversation with Mr. Trump, she said look you are not a politician, you don't have a voting record so there's a lot of material out there in the public record in the public domain that will be raised. And Mr. Trump, you know, I guess to his credit, you know gave his point of view just like Ms. Beck gave her point of view.
There's one thing that might be missing this whole conversation. That is women voters will play a very key role in deciding the next president of the United States will be. 55 percent of voters in 2012 were female of course, they supported President Obama.
So I think Mr. Trump should be very sensitive to the comments that he make even in talking about this lawyer whether she lost or didn't lose because voters are paying attention right now. And they're listening to his tone. They're listening to what he is saying. And if he is not out there talking about the substance, then the superficial might cause him to lose the race.
COOPER: Well, Katrina, as a supporter of Donald Trump, I think you look his tone. And a lot of supporters where I've heard from like his tone.
PIERSON: I'm a supporter of Trump. I'm a supporter of Cruz, any one that's out there telling the truth and particularly with women voters. We're talking about a man who is a great father, a very successful businessman, a confident billionaire. Women aren't really going to care too much about his personal life. We just had breaking news about 37 million subscribers to Ashley Madison.
People today are tired of the personal politics. They want someone that is going to go out there, stand up and fight for them. And that's what is happening with Donald Trump.
COOPER: But, you know, at the S.E. to your point earlier, Dana asked Trump about abortion and he said he used to be pro-choice, he became fro life pro-life after friends of his decided to -- not to abort their baby. Is that going to be enough of an explanation for social conservatives because I'm curious in this coming debate, are his opponents going to attack him as a flip-flopper not just on the issue of choice but on his, you know, his registration, when he was Republican, he was independent, he was unaffiliated. He was Democrat for eight years. Now he says he is conservative Republican.
CUPP: Yeah, I don't know that the flip-flopper thing doesn't seem to matter to conservatives. And they're the folks that I guess would care about that. I think that his opponents on the right and the left will try to attack him as sort of a lightweight who hasn't really fleshed out his substantive policy yet. And you know, whether it's on immigration or China, he's big on bluster and he's got, you know, big sort of broad stroke ideas. But getting Mexico to pay for a wall isn't really a foreign policy or immigration solution to a long-term problem.
So I think people will rightly and wisely press him on those specifics. Now he might have those answers. We just haven't really gotten to hear many of them because there's been so many distractions many of which he himself has created.
PIERSON: Anderson it is really not about political courage at this point at this point. It's about who's saying what needs to be said because a little insight from the Republican side of things because you had candidate since 2009 making promises through their words and doing the exact opposite. The American public put Republicans in control of the House because they promise to get rid of ObamaCare. They gave them the Senate because they promise to stop amnesty. So Republican aren't really caring people are saying right now it's what they're doing that they don't like.
COOPER: Right. Katrina, it's great to have you on, Donna Brazile...
CUPP: Good point.
COOPER: ... S.E. Cupp as well, thank you both, thank you all. BRAZILE: Thank you all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, still to come, it really started as a simple traffic stop. Now an unarmed black man is dead. A white police officers indicted on a murder charge. The entire incident caught on a body- cam.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAYMOND TENSING, UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI POLICE OFFICER: Well, until I can figure out if you have a license or not, go ahead and take your seatbelt off for me.
SAMUEL DUBOSE: Man, why you...
TENSING: Go ahead and take your seatbelt off. Stop. Stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:38:34]
COOPER: Well, a grand jury in Ohio is indicted a white University of Cincinnati police officer on a murder charge in the shooting death of an unarmed African-American man. The prosecutor talked with the reporters today and gave a scathing condemnation of the police officer even calling his actions and I quote, "asinine". The incident was caught on the officer's body-cam, we warn you it is difficult to watch, but it is crucial to the investigation. Miguel Marquez breaks down the video for us frame by frame.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DUBOSE: Hey, how's it going man?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The conversation captured on body camera between University of Cincinnati Police Officer Raymond Tensing and Motorist Samuel Dubose starts normally enough but quickly turns into a deadly confrontation.
TENSING: Well, until I can figure out if you have a license or not, go ahead and take your seatbelt off for me.
DUBOSE: Man, why you.
TENSING: Go ahead and take your seatbelt off. Stop. Stop.
MARQUEZ: Frame by frame you see the police officer reach for Dubose's door. He asks Dubose who was driving on a suspended license to remove his seatbelt. Dubose starts the car. It begins to move the officer's gun comes out. He shouts, stop, stop, then the gunshot. The car speeds up. The officer is on the ground, the gun in front of the camera. AUDREY DUBOSE, MOTHER OF SAMUEL DUBOSE: If my son is righteous and he get killed somebody had to be wicked here. I thought the person should have been locked up on day one.
[21:40:01]
MARQUEZ: In the video it is hard to hear the gunshot. This is the video slowed about 20 percent. You can hear the car engine and the officer shout twice and then single fatal shot.
Samuel Dubose was struck in the head and died in almost instantaneously, he slumped forward hitting the gas as he died. The car came to a stop after jumping the sidewalk at the end of the block. Officer Raymond Tensing has now been charged with murder and voluntary
manslaughter.
JOE DETER, HAMILTON COUNTY PROSECUTOR: This is the most asinine act I have ever seen a police officer make. Totally unwarranted it's incredible and so senseless and I and again I feel so sorry for his family. And I feel sorry for the community. I -- this should not happen ever.
MARQUEZ: In the police report filed the day after the incident Officer Tensing told the investigator he was almost run over by the driver of the Honda accord and was forced to shoot the driver. The statement hard to reconcile with the video.
MARK O'MARA, DEBUSE FAMILY LAWYER: You can't look at that video and say that that police report follows the video. It doesn't. It contradicts it. If there wasn't a video available, I do not believe he would have had an indictment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZ: Now the prosecutor in Cincinnati also looking at the possibility of other charges based on this the police officer's own word. This is the police report filled out the day after the incident. Officer Tensing saying that he felt that he had to shoot because he was going to be dragged and possibly killed by the driver.
Other officers on the scene seem to be taking his side and backing up what he is saying. The prosecutor now looking to see whether those officers falsified a report. Miguel Marquez, CNN New York.
COOPER: You heard from CNN Legal Analyst Mark O'Mara, who was the attorney for the shooting victim's family. He joins me now along with CNN Legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin, and CNN law enforcement analyst and retired NYPD detective Harry Houck.
Mark, I mean the body-cam video, you say your clients had been asking for the tape to be released. Were you surprised by what it showed? Because it seems to completely contradict what the police officers said actually happened.
O'MARA: Well, exactly right. That three-page report done by the officers is complete fiction when taken in light of the video camera. I truly was amazed when I first saw at the first time as the rest of the family I was actually waiting for there to be an argument, a tussle, some type of an aggravation of the circumstances. And as I was watching it and the shot happened I literally almost missed it because it seemed so senseless that there was nothing that suggested an aggravation of the circumstances suggest taking out a gun never mind using it.
COOPER: Right Sunny, you know, we have seen a lot of incidences where there's confrontation where, something could be deescalated and it suddenly and -- but it's never deescalated. This was a seemingly routine stop.
SUNNY HOSTIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Right.
COOPER: The officer seems to be having a conversation with this guy. The guy clearly, you know, doesn't have his license, he is misleading in his answers. But then within second, the shot rings out.
HOSTIN: It is really remarkable. I mean I think it is difficult to make sense of why the officer would pull his gun out and shoot someone in the head with really almost no reason to meet the need for excessive force. It just doesn't, or deadly force rather its just doesn't make sense was he fearful of this man?
COOPER: I guess, I'm guessing his argument is, the attorney's argument is going to be he told he tried to get to opened up the guy's door, the guy closed the door, he'd asked the guy to take off his seatbelt. And the guy seemed to start the car maybe he will make an argument that he was afraid of being dragged. I don't know.
HOSTIN: That he was trying to flee but what is interesting, Anderson is I have spoken to many law enforcement officers today and they all say when they look at this video it contradicts every and all police training that they have ever received.
COOPER: And, Harry, it's certainly contradicts what the officer himself said that he shot because he was being dragged by this vehicle and other officers their statements seem to back up that idea that he was somehow dragged. I mean he clearly ends up on the ground. But he shot the guy in the head before that.
HARRY HOUCK, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: Yeah where you see officer kid, you know, backs up the statement, tells officer Weebles he saw that. But the fact is that if you look at kid's dash-cam video that he had you see him responding to the scene after this is over. So how could he eventually saw the officer being dragged? That's kind of...
COOPER: So Mark, is that just what, the I mean one officer backing up another officer, the officer said, look, you know...
O'MARA: It is. Yeah.
COOPER: ... help with.
O'MARA: And I have defended police officers a lot. They do great work for the most part there are 5 percent or 10 percent who should never have a badge.
[21:45:03] And it seems as though a couple of these officers shouldn't because there is no question that these officers covered for each other. You know that Tensing came out and said things to the officers right away. I hurt my arm. It was stuck here. I thought I was going to get run over.
The car wasn't even near him at that point. He was making up a story to cover for an incident that he did and he never should have done and then other officers come on the scene, follow up and putting the police report. Yes, he was dragged. Those were lies. None of the police officers should ever be police officers again.
COOPER: Also, Sunny, does -- I mean how does an officer lie knowing that he was wearing a dash-cam, camera, a body-cam, excuse me...
HOSTIN: Yeah.
COOPER: ... that's going to -- that recorded the entire thing?
SUNNY: Well, that's what's remarkable. People have certainly called into question the body cameras. I have always been in favor of them. Sometimes officers can turn off the body cameras. Perhaps that's something that was at play but I think it's remarkable and given the fact that there was a body camera, that he still really just made up some facts -- made up most of the facts. I think though it bears mentioning, Anderson, that this underscores the need for body cameras on each and every law enforcement officer in the country.
What we are seeing on this video, I think, is an incident that happens, unfortunately, this kind of aggression, against people of color, and communities of color, and we are now seeing what people in those communities experience daily, day in and day out.
HOUCK: : But we can't say that.
HOSTIN: Yeah, I can.
HOUCK: If it's in day in and day out.
HOSTIN: Yeah, I can.
HOUCK: This does not have happen...
HOSTIN: Oh yeah.
HOUCK: ... day in and day out here.
HOSTIN: These kinds of stuffs of course happen all the time.
COOPER: Mark, you're saying there would have been no indictment without this body camera?
O'MARA: Without the body camera there is no way. Without the body camera, Sam would have been the aggressor. It would have challenged the office. It would have cursed at him. It would have pushed at him, everything else that a bad officer would have made to justify a bad shooting. But for the body camera this would have been...
HOUCK: Well, I don't think...
O'MARA: ... exact opposite story.
HOUCK: ... you could say that now, Mark. I don't think we could say that right now.
HOSTIN: Of course we can. Are you kidding me?
(CROSSTALK)
HOUCK: ... right off the bat that, you know, the investigation would probably still be ongoing. If the officer was indeed dragged there would be marks on his clothing to indicate that he was dragged.
HOSTIN: Look record. But for the body camera we wouldn't be here.
O'MARA: ... right, Harry.
HOUCK: Mark
O'MARA: Yeah, you are right we may have caught the cop lying at some later date. We might have. But what we know from the three page police report that we did see, one cop shooter justifies his own actions as best he can. Second cop swears by it so what else, you know, that's...
HOUCK: I agree. I agree.
O'MARA: ... a real concern without the body cameras.
COOPER: Yeah.
HOUCK: There is no indication that, you know...
HOSTIN: There's no way we would have an indictment without the body camera.
HOUCK: Well, can't say that. I'm sorry.
HOSTIN: No way.
COOPER: We'll leave it there. We'll take off for there.
Mark O'Mara, thank you very much, Harry Houck, Sunny Hostin as well.
Just ahead, he was once so powerful and so despised for his role in protecting Osama bin Laden and the U.S. put a $10 million reward for his capture. His name is Mullah Mohammed Omar, surprising details of his death learned today. Next.
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[21:51:42] COOPER: Today, Afghanistan's Intelligence Services said it believed that reclusive Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar died in 2013 in a hospital in Pakistan. Aside from Osama bin Laden, he was at the top of the U.S. governments most wanted list with up to $10 million offered for information leading to his capture. There have been rumors of his death for years. They've intensified a recent month. He hasn't been seen public since he fled at Afghanistan during the U.S. invasion back in 2001.
Still, just two weeks ago, the Taliban released a statement that was attributed to Omar saying he backed peace talks between the Taliban and the Afghan government. These talks about to enter a second round and they're concerned that his death could complicate negotiations. Now, to understand why that is, you need to go back to the beginning. Here's our Nick Paton Walsh.
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NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A friend with bin Laden in their struggle against the Soviet in Afghanistan, the leader of an atavistic strand of Islam that took much of Afghanistan back decades, the Taliban, a foreshadower to the ISIS curse in the Middle East right now.
He banned women education, free to move movements, music, homosexuality, they are punished by being crashed under a wall. So much of modern life gone. And then finally, in giving a home, sanctuary for America to his old friend, bin Laden, he brought the wrath of NATO upon their impoverished world and began America's longest military involvement, a war that killed over 2,000 American (inaudible) and thousands of Afghans who are dying now perhaps faster than ever as the country still spirals into the void.
Mullah Omar's date of birth is unknown, like so much of a man who exists mostly in the world through this one photograph. He hailed from a small village in Southern Kandahar, lost an eye fighting he Soviets, became more religious and educated and said to speak Arabic an ethnic passion. He would rely upon the harsh, tribal and ethnic divide in Afghanistan to build to the Taliban.
In 1996, he declared himself a leader of the faithful for donning a cloth in Kandahar allegedly once worn by the Prophet Muhammad. His strict vision of Islam was unleashed with amputations stoning for adultery and even in 2001, the destruction of the Buddhas of Bamiyan one of Afghanistan's treasures.
When America came he banished yet further from sight probably in a crowd of Pakistan where Bin Laden also hit in what was known as plain sight.
Occasional messages specially at the Islamic festival of Eid to bolster the insurgency as he gained weight in 2006. But America's practice of night range and continued presence took its toll on his organization killing endless middle ranking leaders, sometimes nightly. A move that perhaps gave rise to a more radical younger generation of insurgent leaders and an increasingly scattered Taliban, they began talking piece with Kabul about to enter another round of talks in Islamabad over even China when his death was announced.
[21:55:00] But there were also challenged by a younger, even more savage contender ISIS who is leader Abu Omar al-Baghdadi claimed a similar title as Omar did.
Indeed, Omar's deputy chastised ISIS recently for trying to split to the insurgency in Afghanistan, many fearing deeply that the vacuum left by the hugely symbolic announcement of his death may give rise to something yet worse still.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was Nick Paton Walsh reporting. Up next, what the coast guard is saying about the search for the two missing teenagers who set off solo on a fishing trip last Friday and haven't been seen since.
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COOPER: The coast guard is vowing to keep looking for two 14-year-old boys missing off the coast of Florida since Friday. Harry Cowan and Austin Stephanos had set off on a fishing trip on their own and they vanished. The coast guard says it has not called off the search even though they're not beyond the four to five days. It's believed the boys could survive on open water. They're boat was found on Sunday, South of Daytona Beach. The boy's families started the Harry and Austin rescue fund to help cover search costs.
You can donate in gofundme.com/harryandaustin. We've also put the link on our website of ac360.com.
That does it for us. Thanks very much for watching. We're going to see at 11:00 P.M. Eastern for another edition of 360. I hope you'll join us for that. Tonight, there's a lot of news in the search from missing MH370 and the possible finding of wreckage from it still unconfirmed.
[22:00:03]
CNN tonight with Don Lemon, starts now.
