Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
GOP Deabtes Reviewed; Who Won the GOP Debate?; New Allegations in Death of Bobbi Kristina Brown. Aired 8:30p-9:00 ET.
Aired August 07, 2015 - 20:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:17] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
We begin tonight Keeping Them Honest with the debate, Donald Trump and the controversy over questions he was asked about his past comments about some women. A record 24 million people watched him and nine other Republicans on that stage last night in Cleveland. Eight times more viewers than the first debate of the 2012 campaign. And there's no denying a lot of that viewership was because Donald Trump was on that stage. Here's the exchange between Megyn Kelly and Trump that continues to reverberate today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: You've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals. Your twitter account --
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Only Rosie O'Donnell.
KELLY: No, it wasn't. Your twitter account --
TRUMP: Thank you.
KELLY: For the record, it was well beyond Rosie O'Donnell.
TRUMP: Yes, I'm sure it was.
KELLY: Your twitter account has several disparaging comments about women's looks. You once told a contestant on celebrity apprentice it would be a pretty picture to see her on her knees. Does that sound to you like the temperament of a man that should be elected president? And how are you to handle Hillary Clinton who is likely to be the democratic nominee that you are part of the war on women?
TRUMP: I think the big problem this country has is being politically correct. I've been -- I've been challenged by so many people, and I don't frankly have time for total political correctness. Frankly, what I say and oftentimes its fun, it's kidding, we have a good time. What I say is what I say. And honestly, Megyn, if you don't like it. I'm sorry. I have been very nice to you. Although, I could probably maybe not be based on the way you have treated me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, just minutes after the debate ended, Donald Trump began criticizing that question and Megyn Kelly, many of his supporters found her question unfair and Trump continuing critiquing the issue on MSNBC today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know, the question on the women, I didn't say many of those things. They said something and they were getting out some words and I don't remember that on the apprentice. I don't know where they got some of these words, to be honest with you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: He went onto say that he'd have to check them out. Keeping Them Honest, we did as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: She came to my wedding. She ate like a pig. And seriously, the wedding cake was like missing in action.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The Rosie O'Donnell insults which he admits to are pretty well known by now. That said when it comes to making disparaging remarks about other women other than Rosie O'Donnell, there are many to choose from.
When asked why necessary to comment on publisher Ariana Huffington's looks, Mr. Trump reply quote "because she's a dog who wrongfully comments on me." "New York Times" columnist (INAUDIBLE) that after just pleasing Donald Trump, he once sent her a picture of herself with the words the face of a dog written on it.
About Bette Midler quote "Well, @Bette Midler, an extremely unattractive woman, I refuse to say that because I always insist on being politically correct." And again, about Ariana Huffington, @ArrianHuff, is unattractive both inside and out. I fully understand why her former husband left her for a man. He made a good decision.
As for a moment on "the Apprentice" Megyn Kelly was referring to last night that Mr. Trump did not recall this morning, this is what she was referring to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brandy came in here, got down on my knees and said I passionately want to do this. At this point, I'm the team chooser, not the team leader --
TRUMP: Excuse me. You dropped to your knees?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
TRUMP: Must be a pretty picture you dropping to your knees.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Donald Trump on "the Apprentice." Now, the woman she was speaking to there, Brandy Roderick (ph) today said the thought Trump was kidding and was not being disrespectful and that she didn't even remember it. As for calling a woman a disgusting animal, we could not remember that particular reference if it ever happened. Mr. Trump's attorney does say his client did call a female attorney during a deposition disgusting because he says she wanted to pump her breast for milk in front of him for her child. But the word animal was apparently not used. Mr. Trump himself told CNN's Dana Bash he might have said disgust or might have said something else.
As I mentioned Trump supporters took to twitter to criticize the way they felt the moderators treated Donald Trump. And earlier this morning Mr. Trump retweeted someone else's tweet about the night quote "FOX viewers give low marks to bimbo @MegynKelly. Will consider other program." Again, that's a retweet, not Donald Trump's own words.
So while Megyn Kelly's question was largely accurate in substance, the Trump campaign clearly feels it was unfair and not similar to any questions asked of other candidates on that stage.
Joining us tonight, Michael Cohen, executive vice president for the Trump organization and special counsel to Donald Trump.
Michael, its clear Donald Trump was not happy with certain parts of the debate, particularly Megyn Kelly asking him about past comments on women. Why did he think that was unfair?
[20:05:13] MICHAEL COHEN, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT FOR THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION: You know, look, as of yesterday my understanding now that the FOX debate ended up showing up something like 24 million people watching that as opposed to five million the year before, they really all came or I should say they viewed the segment yesterday in order to see what Donald Trump was going to say. And I think that the moderators really lost a great opportunity in order to allow Mr. Trump to show exactly what he wanted to talk about, which is the economy, jobs, immigration, reform, et cetera. The things that people really wanted to hear from Mr. Trump. They didn't really get that opportunity. Mostly because they decided to distract by talking about really what amounts to nonsense.
COOPER: But isn't the moderator's job to press the candidates on a whole variety of topics, not to just kind of tee up for what the candidates want to talk about?
COHEN: Well, the answer is yes. But we should really be -- this is a GOP presidential debate. This isn't talking about an old story about a feud that goes back years which has, you know, a long history to it. It's just not presidential. And it didn't make any sense to at least the many, many viewers that sent out tweets and e-mails and so on. It just didn't make any sense.
COOPER: You know, in the past there have been questions raised about language that Donald Trump has used, even during this race against other candidates. I'm not talking about, you know, feuds with Rosie O'Donnell and stuff like that, but even in his response to last night he retweeted somebody who had tweeted calling Megyn Kelly a bimbo. Is that something that a presidential candidate should really be retweeting? It sounds like he's advocating that kind of language.
COHEN: You know, I don't know if he read the full tweet. I don't know what his position was on it. Look, President Obama while sitting with Putin made a comment, you know, using improper language. Nobody says anything. You know, he's human. He's not a Politico. You know, he's Donald Trump.
COOPER: But it does, I mean, for a president of the United States -- as president of the United States Donald Trump would be getting tough questions all the time. Is he going to be referencing, you know, female reporters as bimbos or retweeting other people's comments?
COHEN: I don't know. Anderson, listen, I don't know whether he tweeted it or somebody from the campaign retweeted it, it's irrelevant to be very honest with you. What's really important here is that 24 million people got a chance to see Mr. Trump. They see that he's not taking any nonsense. And that's the type of things that we need in this country. We don't need to talk about individual whether it was Rosie or Megyn, it makes no difference. What's important is how are we going to do immigration reform? How are we going to handle the economy? How are we going to create jobs? This is what 24 million people viewed. The reason they went to view it is in order to hear how Donald Trump is going to with his tag line make America great again. And they did not get that opportunity because there were questions asked to him that really were not for this debate.
COOPER: Michael Cohen, good to have you on. Thank you, Mike.
COHEN: Anderson, always great to see you. Thank you.
COOPER: I want to bring in our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, national tea party leader and Trump supporter Katrina Pierson. Also Amanda Carpenter, former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz.
Amanda, what do you make of what Michael Cohen said? I mean, should a comment that Donald Trump made about Rosie O'Donnell years ago, and others, you know, comments he made on twitter or on "the Apprentice," should that be raised in a Republican primary debate?
AMANDA CARPENTER, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR SENATOR TED CRUZ: Of course it should. And I stood up and I cheered when Megyn Kelly asked that question. You know, Mr. Cohen can come on and say he'd rather talk about the issues. Well, the purpose of a campaign is to prove that you have the character to become president of the United States. And when you demean a woman for asking a necessary question that voters want to hear about, that shows that you don't have the character to take that office.
COOPER: Katrina, I mean, I know you're a Trump supporter. Do you have any concerns that he just has a really thin skin? I mean, we've had many presidents and many folks in the White House who have had thin skins and often that over time causes real issues, certainly for reporters and for many people. Do you have any concerns about that? Do you think those questions were appropriate?
KATRINA PIERSON, NATIONAL TEA PARTY LEADER: I don't have any concerns. I mean, this was Mr. Trump's very first national debate on that stage in that element. So I'm going to give him a pass for this first one and see how things develop. And I do, I agree, I think the question was relevant. However, Mr. Trump is an entertainer. "The Apprentice" is a television show. Most of everything that goes on there is scripted and it is for ratings. And everybody that does television knows that. You didn't hear anybody calling Ronald Reagan a wife beater just because he appeared in a movie where he was beating up a woman.
So I think it was pulled out of context, and maybe shouldn't have been in this particular debate which I believe should have been a debate about policy. So these individuals could introduce themselves to 24 million people.
[20:10:35] COOPER: When Trump retweets someone calling Megyn Kelly a bimbo, as a supporter of his, does that - I mean, do you think that's acceptable of someone who wants to be president?
PIERSON: Well, I give no weight to twitter. And most of the time when you're out there going through those feeds, tweeting and retweeting, might see something you like and maybe it was an accident. Who knows at this point? He didn't say he did it on purpose. I've done it before myself. So I don't really give too much credence to twitter at this point.
COOPER: OK. Gloria --
CARPENTER: Can I just jump in here?
COOPER: Yes.
CARPENTER: They said retweet happened hours ago. They have hours to figure it out. And the fact that Cohen came on the show and said he didn't know how it happened, you have to suspend belief in order to think that's true. He has to figure out. And frankly, the fact that this may be the first statement Trump hasn't owned and hasn't defended may tell you even he knows he's in trouble.
COOPER: Gloria --
PIERSON: It's twitter. We should be talking about moving forward and policies that are going to effect the country, not twitter.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: No, but it's his tweets.
COOPER: Well, Gloria, one of the things you pointed out is that none of the candidates spoke out last night to condemn Trump's comments. Do you think Carly Fiorina, who we're going to talk to in a moment on this show, had been on that stage that things might have been different?
BORGER: I do. You know, I think it was very notable for example that Rand Paul was kind of itching to go after Donald Trump on surveillance issues. But when it came to this question, nobody sort of stepped in and said, you know, I think those comments are not things that you would think would come from a president of the United States. Nobody did that.
I would argue and be interesting to see what Carly Fiorina says to you, Anderson, but I would argue that if she had been on that stage that she would have found that pretty hard to resist. That, you know, those words coming from somebody who you are voting for who will be the person to decide whether you send your children to war, it's the most personal vote you make for president of the United States. I guarantee you that a woman standing there would have felt the need to actually say something about it.
COOPER: Amanda, what about that? I mean, do you think he has the temperament to be president of the United States?
CARPENTER: Absolutely not. And his actions in the past 24 hours have proved that to be true. I mean, we have to be able to win the women's vote. And just think, CNN did a poll last month before this debate even happened that showed Hillary Clinton was beating him with the female vote by 28 points. That is only going to improve in her favor if he keeps this up.
COOPER: Katrina --
PIERSON: But the numbers also show this. They don't need to have women to vote. What happens is they need the base to vote. Mitt Romney lost because Republicans didn't vote. And what we really saw last night 24 million people saw Mr. Trump go after a woman, meaning he's probably the only one that's going to have the guts to go after Hillary Clinton.
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: One of the reasons Mitt Romney lost is because Barack Obama won women by 11 points. Republicans need to convince more suburban married women who can vote Republican, convince more of them that they ought to vote Republican. And I would argue if you're sitting at home on the couch and you're a woman and you're watching Donald Trump and you watch the question from Megyn Kelly and then you heard him say to Megyn Kelly, you know, maybe I shouldn't be so nice to you, or something to that effect, that a lot of women are going to kind of say, whoa, that offends me.
PIERSON: And a lot of women went on Facebook and defended him as well. There's a viral video right now with two black women on his side. So it goes both ways.
BORGER: I'm sure there are. And people who like Donald Trump will probably say this was OK, this was just Donald Trump. But people who are deciding, you know, we're at the beginning of this campaign, a lot of people are deciding. And they look at that and makes women in particular sort of scratch their heads.
COOPER: Well, there's certainly a long way to go in this campaign. It's as everyone says it's a marathon, not a sprint. We'll see where things go, especially to your point of the next debate.
Gloria, Katrina Pierson, great to have you on. Amanda Carpenter as well.
Quick note if you want to hear more from Donald Trump himself, stay with CNN. He's calling in with Don Lemon tonight at the top of the hour 9:00 p.m. eastern time.
Much more on the debate, though, ahead including how well the other candidates made use of their time on the stage. And a look at what their body language was saying as they talked and as they listened.
Plus, my conversation with Carly Fiorina who is getting a lot of good reviews for her non-primetime performance in Cleveland that a lot of viewers even watched that. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:19:01] COOPER: Hey, welcome back.
It goes without saying that last night's primetime debate got the lion's share of viewers, huge numbers. Donald Trump made the most headlines of the ten men on stage. Turns out though the earlier debate for the other seven candidates also spotlighted a candidate who is getting a lot of bounce today, or a lot of notice I should say at least from her performance -- Carly Fiorina.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: On day one in the oval office I would make two phone calls. The first one would be to my good friend BB Netanyahu to reassure him we'll stand with Israel. The second will be to the Supreme leader of Iran. He might not take my phone call, but he would get the message.
We have to undo a whole set of things that President Obama has done to get at the heart of his disrespect and disregard for too many Americans.
Here's the thing that I would ask Donald Trump in all seriousness. He is the party's front-runner right now and good for him. Since he has changed his mind on amnesty, on health care and on abortion, I would just ask, what are the principles by which he will govern?
Hillary Clinton lies about Benghazi, she lies about emails, she is still defending Planned Parenthood, and she is still her party's front-runner. We need a nominee who is going to throw every punch, not pull punches. And someone who cannot stumble before he even gets into the ring. Only someone who will challenge the status quo of Washington, D.C. can lead the resurgence of this great nation. I will do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:20:23] COOPER: Carly Fiorina is the former CEO of Hewlett Packard. She ran for the U.S. Senate in California back in 2010. She did not win. I spoke to her earlier tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Carly, first of all, congratulations on basically what everybody considers to be a stellar performance in the early debate. Do you think it's going to be enough to vault you into the top tier for the next debate?
FIORINA: Well, we'll see. You know, national polls measure name ID. In state polls I have been in the top ten for some time, but national polls measure among other things name ID. I'm not a professional politician. I'm not a celebrity. And so I started out with the lowest name ID in the field. That may be changing after last night.
But, you know, a campaign isn't going to get won or lost by who's in which debate. I think it will get won or lost by doing the hard work of campaigning day after day after day, which is what I'm doing.
COOPER: And Donald Trump has been saying that in the debate last night Megyn Kelly was unfair, nasty, un-professional. He's continued to say this on twitter and elsewhere. Even retweeted somebody else's tweet saying she was a bimbo. I'm wondering what you make of how he was treated, in particular him going after her and his response to her question about comments on women.
FIORINA: You know, I think that Megyn Kelly and all the other moderators, actually, did a really good job in both debates. I think they were asking each candidate what they considered to be tough but fair questions. And I think Megyn Kelly's questions were tough but fair.
COOPER: Certainly in your debate even a lot of the moderators were asking tough questions of all the candidates basically many of the questions were sort of along the lines of do you even deserve to be here.
FIORINA: Well, look, I think what moderators are trying to do -- look, I've not moderated a debate, but if I were in that position what I would want to do is put a little pressure on candidates because I think character is revealed when people are under pressure. And in the end what a campaign is designed to do, I think, as crazy as this process is, American voters get to see people over time and under pressure. And so in that debate I think the moderators were trying to put everyone under a little pressure to see how they would respond.
COOPER: Trump's refusal to rule out a third-party run or support the eventual nominee, should Republican voters think twice about supporting him because of that? And was that a fair question to start off the debate with?
FIORINA: I think it was a fair question. I was disappointed by his answer. And other Republican voters are going to have to decide what they think about that.
COOPER: Does it bother you when you hear people say Carly Fiorina did a great job last night. Maybe she'd be a good running mate for one of the other candidates? I heard Greta (INAUDIBLE) push back on that idea saying, look, you're running for president, not vice president. It's not fair to downplay you in that way. Do you think people would be talking about you in a vice president context if you were a man?
FIORINA: Well, you know, Anderson, I started out as a secretary. In a nine-person real estate firm. I've been called a bimbo, and I've been called another b word as well. I've been underestimated all my life. And I've competed with men all my life as well. So I don't mind being underestimated. And I don't mind what other people think. What I know is that I'm running for president. What I know is that I can win this job. What I know is that I can do this job. And now my job is to talk with as many voters as I can so that they can see that I can win this job and do this job.
COOPER: Carly Fiorina, I appreciate you being on tonight. Thank you very much.
FIORINA: Thanks, Anderson.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: A lot more to talk about just ahead, ten candidates stood on that same stage last night in Cleveland. They did not share in the strictest sense of the word. One of them got a lot more air time than the others. You may be able to guess who that was.
Tom Foreman breaks down what was said minute by minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:28:18] COOPER: Donald Trump has made it clear he's not happy about some of the questions he was asked about last night, but there are a couple things he can't complain about. As the front-runner he had the best position on the stage, the center spot. He was hard to miss in many of the shots. He also got the lion's share of the spotlight because he talked the most.
Tom Foreman tonight breaks it down for us -- Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Anderson.
A lot of Republicans were worried Donald Trump would suck all the oxygen out of the room in this debate. And he sure did chew up some minutes. Look at this analysis by "the Washington Post." Ten and a half minutes of talking time for Trump during the course of this debate. The nearest competitor Bush with 8:47. Most of the others only got six to seven minutes of talking time except for Rand Paul who barely managed to squeeze in five minutes of talking time.
Name recognition too saw Trump Trumping everyone else. They all need to hear their name said on stage there, but Trump's was said more than anyone else, 28 times. Most of the others were about half that much at best. Another name you heard a lot out there almost as much as Trump's, Hillary Clinton's. And the one name you heard more than anybody else, Barack Obama. So Obama, Trump and Clinton loomed very large over the Republican debate. And what were the people on stage talking about? You might expect the
word freedom or free a lot, free was said only four times. Rights came up only seven times. Women really count in this election and yet we heard the word women only eight times. Security was said a lot, 22 times we heard them talking about security although sometimes that was a reference to Social Security.
But the one word we heard over and over and over again 62 times, America. Yes, it was so big in this debate, we have to knockdown the wall just to get in to the studio - Anderson.
COOPER: Tom, thanks.
Let's dig deeper now with our panel. CNN political commentator and Trump's supporter Jeffrey Lord. He served as White House political director for Ronald Reagan, and he's a contributing editor for "American Spectator." Also Ari Fleischer. Former White House press secretary for President George W. Bush.
Jeffrey, and Trump says the questions posed to him last night were unfair, moderators were the toughest on him. The fact that he did get more air time than anyone else, his name was mentioned more than anyone else, do you think it's fair for him to complain?
JEFFREY LORD: Well, you know, Anderson, and I'll be honest with you here, I'm not really sure it matters what he thinks. I think it matters what America thinks. And I'll just give you some anecdote. I mean I don't have enough data, you know, that I feel I need to sort of make a call here, but I was on a radio show, a conservative radio show in Birmingham, Alabama this morning. And I asked the host, what's up, what was the reaction. And he said that he's being overwhelmed with, one, they love Donald Trump, two, was Ted Cruz, three was Marco Rubio. And the interesting fourth was they were really angry at Fox News, which I found startling.
COOPER: Yeah.
LORD: I then went to Rush Limbaugh's site here late this afternoon and he apparently said more or less the same thing. And I read, you know, a caller had called in and was furious with Fox News. So how this, you know, plays out I know there's a drudge poll out there that shows Ted Cruz first and Donald Trump second and a bright mark poll that shows Donald Trump first, you know, I personally need to see more than that. But I think anecdotally this is very interesting here.
COOPER: It sure is. Ari, what do you make of that? I mean do you think he was treated fairly? What do you think of the response?
ARI FLEISCHER: Well, Anderson, first I really do have to say that when Donald Trump says he's the toughest, best negotiator in America, and he says he can take on and go toe-to-toe with Vladimir Putin, that the first thing he did is to complain about whether Megyn Kelly is fair. I think it's a little out of touch with international realities that he says he's so ready for. But look ...
COOPER: You think he's too thin skinned? FLEISCHER: Absolutely. Here's Donald Trump's opportunity and
problem. One, the people who are for him I don't think are ever going to be shaken off of him. He is going to capture the antiestablishment mood of this country, the antiestablishment wing of the Republican Party, which traditionally is between 20 and 25 percent. I think that's going to stay pretty much like that. Here's his vulnerability though. The more people see him, and the longer he talks, the more he's going to wear thin on everybody else. And therefore he has a sealant. He can do very well in a multicandidate field when he has the biggest plurality. Where he's going to struggle is especially in February and March when the field starts to shrink and whittle down, he can't get above 20 or 25 because he's not good at building bridges or convincing new people to be for him.
COOPER: Ari, does a candidate at this stage - I mean if you read every Trump interview, which I've done for the last couple of months as I've been following him and preparing to talk to him, that's how you prepare for an interview.
FLEISCHER: Sure.
COOPER: You see patterns of what he talks about and what he says. And he repeats it over and over and over again. Which a lot of candidates do. Does he have to though as this campaign evolves, evolve as well in terms of having a greater repertoire of things he can talk about? Or is it enough to continue along the messages he's been hitting which clearly have been resonated?
FLEISCHER: Every candidate has to do that, not just Donald Trump. Donald Trump starts in a very different position, but every candidate learns and gets better as the campaign gets hotter. So, one of the good things about campaigns that really tests you and the American people to make the judgment about who is the best. But Donald Trump's problem as he might come across so hot every single debate that those who want the heat are going to stay for him, but nobody else. He does have to show an ability to evolve, to be more nuanced, to make subtle points and to convince people that he's right as opposed to yell at them, to say that he's right.
COOPER: It was interesting, Jeffrey, because again, Chris Wallace last night was trying to press him on, you know, specific evidence that the Mexican government is forcing rapists and others across the border, something I tried to get him to give the prior week or two weeks before that. He doesn't really have it other than to say I've talked to some border patrol people and this is what they tell me. Is that over the long haul, you know, is that going to continue to play OK.
LORD: Yeah. I think it will play OK in, you know, parts of America that are not, you know, the New York, Washington, sort of - and maybe the West Coast establishment type places. I do think that. I mean, people are seeing these television pictures of people streaming across the border from Mexico. And, you know, the obvious thought is why isn't -- and we've discussed this before, why is it Mexico stopping them? Why is it up to us? I mean we should obviously be doing something, but why are they just letting this happen? [20:35:01]
LORD: So clearly, the Mexican government by default is doing something here by not doing something. So I really think that, you know, he's made this point with people. And I think it does resonate.
COOPER: Ari, just very briefly, how do you think Jeb Bush did? Because I mean he's raising an awful lot of money and you don't hear a lot of talk about him today.
FLEISCHER: He didn't do that well. I think for both Jeb and Scott Walker they both went to - and they said that their goal is to be senior, their goal is to be looking and seeing as presidential and let Donald Trump get into a fight with everybody else. And let them rise above. Not a bad long-term strategy because I think ultimately it's going to be Walker and Bush who are the two left standing, but they're going to both have to show a little more heat, a little more passion, a little more emotion in these debates because TV does send a very powerful signal about who you are.
COOPER: Yeah, sure it does. Ari Fleischer, thank you. Jeffrey Lord, always good to have you on.
LORD: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: It's not just words that count in a presidential debate. Just ahead, which candidate had the body language or won the body language last night, the best body language who may have lost points without ever even saying a word? Talk about that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:40:01]
COOPER: We've been talking a lot about what the candidates said during last night's Republican presidential debate. But it's not just words that matter or how a candidate speaks. In some cases body language experts say can be even more crucial than what comes out of somebody's mouth. Gary Tuchman watched the debate with an expert in body language. Nick Morgan who has worked with many politicians and business people to try to improve their communications skills. Gary asked him what stood out last night.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK MORGAN, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: We look to the body to let us know what your emotion is, your true feeling is underlying the content.
TRUMP: Raise your hand now if you won't make that pledge tonight.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So he raises his hands, he moves his hands to the side, he smiles, he nods his head. What does that tell you?
MORGAN: He's opening up there. Which means he's saying in effect trust me, I'm open, I'm not trying to put one over on you. That's who I am.
TRUMP: He's already hedging his bet on the Clintons.
MORGAN: Donald Trump, his face is so unusual compared to those other candidates. He's got the squint going, he's frowning most of the time. It's a face that would normally be off-putting for the average person, but somehow Trump makes it work.
TRUMP: The bar is even higher for me. That's fine.
TUCHMAN: Watching Jeb Bush in the beginning of the debate, what was your major take on him?
MORGAN: Fascinating because he comes out saying I'm my own man, but what he does is he tilts his head as he talks about his dad.
JEB BUSH: I'm proud of my dad and I'm certainly proud of my brother.
MORGAN: He's tilting his head to one side. What that does, is that gives up authority. That says you're in charge, not me.
CHRIS CHRISTIE: If you think it's bad now, you should have seen it when I got there.
MORGAN: So as Christie leans in to the podium he's both saying I'm getting comfortable here, and I'm creating more of a connection between me and the audience. And so I like those moves on his part.
SCOTT WALKER, GOVERNOR OF WISCONSIN: And that I believe that that is an unborn child that's in need of protection out there.
TUCHMAN: I thought that was interesting that Governor Walker's holding his hands like he's holding a baby.
MORGAN: Yeah, what happened was he started talking first and then he gestured. And if we're doing it naturally what we do is we gesture first and then we speak.
TRUMP: Talk to him directly and say how you respond to that.
TUCHMAN: And Jeb Bush smiling, you have Trump with his arms out like this, what is this telling you? This must tell you a lot of things.
MORGAN: This is Trump at his most typical. He's saying I don't care, so sue me. He's wide open. He's I'm not defensive about this.
RAND PAUL: I don't trust President Obama with our records. I know you gave him a big hug, and if you want to give him a big hug again, go right ahead.
MORGAN: What's happening there with Rand Paul is once again he looks borderline out of control. His voice has gone way up. His gestures have gotten huge. He's almost pounding the podium there. He's waving his hands about whereas Christie is leaning on the podium once again. He looks a little more in control.
(APPLAUSE)
TUCHMAN: Based on body language alone, who won the debate?
MORGAN: I'd have to say Donald Trump. He came out strong from the beginning and stayed strong throughout.
TUCHMAN: And runner-up?
MORGAN: Runner-up was surprising to me. It was Chris Christie. I think he connected better than anybody else except Trump with the audience. It felt like a conversation. It felt like he was being honest and open and talking to us, the audience.
TUCHMAN: And that was based on his body language.
MORGAN: That was based on his body language.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: It certainly gives us a lot more to think about and watch for in the next debate. CNN will be hosting that debate on September 16th at the Ronald Reagan presidential library in Simi Valley, California.
Coming up next, breaking news, explosive new allegations in the death of Bobbi Kristina Brown aimed directly at a onetime companion Nick Gordon.
[20:43:28]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: New allegations tonight in the death of Bobbi Kristina Brown. An amended wrongful death lawsuit alleges that her boyfriend, Nick Gordon, gave her a toxic cocktail that knocked her unconscious and then he put her face down in a bathtub. Brown is the only daughter of the late Whitney Houston and Bobbi Brown died 12 days ago months after she was found unresponsive in a bathtub of her Georgia home. Randi Kaye joins us with the breaking news. What exactly does this lawsuit claim?
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the lawsuit claims that Nick Gordon, who had been living with Bobbi Kristina, took part in this violent attack on her claiming that he made her this toxic cocktail that caused her to sustain a profound brain injury. And that brain injury caused her death. Now, the lawsuit also says that Nick Gordon was physically abusive to Bobbi Kristina. It describes an incident just days before she died saying this, the defendant lunged onto Bobbi Kristina while she sat on the living room couch hitting her so hard in the face that the couch actually broke knocking her to the floor and continuing to beat her in the face, Anderson, until she was bloody.
COOPER: And what does it claim happened the day that she was found?
KAYE: Well, the lawsuit claims that that morning, which was January 31st, 2015, Nick Gordon came home from this all-night cocaine and drinking binge and then watched this camera footage of Bobbi Kristina where apparently he heard a conversation that she had had with a friend saying Nick Gordon wasn't the man that she thought he was. And that's when the lawsuit says that they got into this loud argument. The lawsuit claims that Nick Gordon screamed at Bobbi Kristina accusing her of cheating going so far as to call her a whore, he also called her a bitch. The argument lasted for 30 minutes and then everything got quiet. Now, the lawsuit claims that Gordon gave Bobbi Kristina this toxic cocktail rendering her unconscious and then put her face down in a tub of cold water causing her to suffer brain damage. The lawsuit goes onto say, Anderson, that the defendant then came out of the master bedroom wearing a different set of clothing than he was wearing prior to his argument with Bobbi Kristina, got in bed and laid his head on some female guest's ankle, another woman who's in the house, and stated now I want a pretty little white girl like you. That is a direct quote, Anderson, from the lawsuit.
COOPER: And what exactly was Gordon's relationship with Bobbi Kristina? Has anyone ever figured that one out?
KAYE: A lot of people have been trying to figure that out. Nick Gordon was taken in by Whitney Houston when he was just 12 years old. He was raised as a brother to Bobbi Kristina, they began dating somewhere around 2012. He claimed to be her boyfriend. At one point then even her husband, but he actually never offered any proof about that. And the lawsuit alleges that Nick Gordon falsely presented them as a married couple so he could gain access to her money. And the lawsuit also then goes onto say that he was very controlling of Bobbi Kristina, that he would answer her personal cell phone, he wanted to know who she was talking to, he even installed cameras so he could watch and hear her in her home whenever he wasn't there.
COOPER: Has Nick Gordon commented on this suit?
KAYE: Well, Bobbi Kristina died back on July 26th.
[20:50:01]
KAYE: And after that we heard from his mom on his behalf. She put out the statement saying that the passing of Bobbi Kristina is devastating to Nick and the family. And she added that Nick loved and cared for Kristi deeply, as she called her and he has suffered greatly, each and every day. That they've been apart. We did reach out to his lawyer tonight, based on his latest amended lawsuit, Anderson, and we haven't heard anything back.
COOPER: All right. Randi, thank you very much. A lot of troubling allegations. Certainly, a lot to discuss. And so we are joined by a legal analyst, criminal defense attorney, Mark Geragos, and on the phone, former federal prosecutor, Sunny Hostin.
Mark, what do you make of this lawsuit? I mean clearly it is very specific. I don't know if it is based on comments or an affidavit, maybe made by somebody else who was in the house, or this woman who was allegedly in the house. What do you make of this?
MARK GERAGOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, arguably the only person who could have given the information was the "pretty little white girl" who he laid his head on or her ankle. What's happening here, though, from a legal standpoint is there is an estate and it is a substantial estate. And if he has proof that he was married, he would inherit that estate except if he was responsible for her death. So the estate is taking the position that he caused her death. If they prevail on that then he is not entitled to anything.
COOPER: And you think that's what is that the core of this?
GERAGOS: That is the problem he's got right now. Yeah, that's clearly - that's what's at the core. The estate does not care arguably who caused the death or anything else except if it affects or has some problem or has some ramification if you will as to who gets part of the, part and parcel of the estate.
COOPER: Because Sunny, do you agree with that, that this - I mean is essential - is essentially accusing Nick Gordon of murdering her. There is obviously no criminal charges that have been filed at this point. Do you think this is at the core about the inheritance?
HOSTIN: No, I completely disagree with Mark. I mean as you know, Anderson, I have been in contact with the Houston family. And they've made it very clear to me since January that they felt that Nick Gordon was responsible for Bobbi Kristina's condition. They made it very clear to me that they felt that he harmed her in some way. I was told that when she arrived at the hospital she had missing teeth, she had injuries that were consistent with a struggle. And this is something that they have held steadfast to every single time I speak to them. And so, I don't think this has anything to do with the estate trying to counter punch a potential marriage. They also made it very clear to me that they were not married. I actually spoke to someone very close to the family that spoke to Bobbi Kristina, and was - that person was clearly told that, no they were not married. And if she were to get married, this person would have been the first person to know. And so I think it is very much so about the family wanting Nick Gordon to be found accountable and to be accountable for what they believe is his role in her death. We know that there is still a criminal investigation ongoing. I just reached out to the family just today.
GERAGOS: Yeah, I mean that's exactly why --
HOSTIN: This morning.
GERAGOS: That's exactly.
COOPER: Mark, mark, mark. What I don't get, if there is all this evidence, Mark, and all of these eyewitness testimony, or ear witness testimony, and this toxic cocktail, if all that is true why haven't some sort of charges already been filed?
GERAGOS: That's exactly, exactly, Anderson. If there is all of this, if all of their concerned about is getting to the truth, then you do it through the criminal process. You don't bring in the estate to file a lawsuit which is going to frankly muck up the criminal process. If you are a prosecutor. The last thing you want is a bunch of civil lawyers getting in the mix. So that's why I say, I think it is a preemptive strike by the estate. Ultimately there is, you know, legal peril for him. And he is - that's why he has got a criminal lawyer. And that's why he is going to need to address this. Because if they have got a witness who, who has even one tenth of the information that is contained in the complaint ...
COOPER: Right.
GERAGOS: That is the beginnings of a criminal investigation.
COOPER: I've got to leave it there. Mark, thank you very much. Sunny Hostin as well.
The search now intensifying for remains of MH-370. The latest on that when we come back.
[20:54:45]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: A lot more happening tonight, including breaking news out of Colorado. Gary Tuchman has a "360 Bulletin." Gary.
TUCHMAN: Anderson, breaking news, a jury has decided that the man who carried out the movie theater massacre in Aurora, Colorado, should spend the rest of his life in prison and not get the death penalty. 12 people were killed. And 70 others wounded in the attack three years ago.
New York Senator Chuck Schumer says he will not support the White House and will vote against the nuclear deal with Iran. The influential Democrat with the sizable pro-Israel constituency said in his statement that he simply does not believe Iran will change. The deal with Iran and many other topics will be discussed with President Obama this Sunday on CNN when he is a guest in Fareed Zakaria GPS at 10:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. Eastern Time.
Off and on, the coast of Reunion Island. French officials are stepping up their search for debris that could be for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. This comes after the Malaysian government said a seat and other items were found in the area. However there is no confirmation from French authorities. Anderson.
COOPER: Gary, thanks very much. That does it for us. Don Lemon's special guest on CNN tonight. As Donald Trump live. Don't want to miss that. CNN tonight starts now.
[21:00:00]
