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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Ferguson Violence Prompts State of Emergency; Hillary Clinton Slams Trump's Remarks; Tramp's Temperament; Shot Dead By Rookie Officer. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 10, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:05]
ANDERSON COOPER, AC360 HOST: A state of emergency now in effect across the city and all of Saint Louis County, a year after a police shot and killed Michael Brown and all that followed. Tension is once again very high tonight. The last 24 hours have seen protests, violence, and looting, gunshots and alleged gunman shot, and badly wounded by police. We'll talk in a moment about where things go from here. But first Ryan Young with how we got to this point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIOANAL CORRESPONDENT: Rapid gunfire followed by running in fear. You can see the panic rise in the crowd. The peaceful protest for Michael Brown turned to violence Sunday night. Ferguson's Interim Police Chief, Andre Anderson was in the middle of an interview when the anger just across the street boiled over.
ANDRE ANDERSON, FERGUSON INTERIM POLICE CHIEF: We just want to be as patient as possible.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Message to those who are looting?
UNIDENTIFED MALE: What is that?
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Gunfire. Get down. Gunfire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cover, cover, cover.
YOUNG: Detectives rushed to surround 18-year old Tyrone Harris. This video shows the moments just after police shot Harris from inside their unmarked vehicle after they say they were fired upon. Police say he was carrying a stolen gun.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: To quarantine (ph). Back up.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Going to need some help.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Back up.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Getting some help.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: You need some help.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Back up.
CHIEF JON BELMAR, ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE: There were four officers who were in the van. All four fired at the suspect. And the suspect fell there.
YOUNG: Harris' aunt told CNN he wasn't carrying a gun and was running from the gunfire. As word of the shooting spread the crowd's anger turned towards police.
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: Are we ready for war?
UNIDENTIFED MALE: We're ready for war.
YOUNG: The shooting pushed police and protesters into a standoff. Somebody started throwing bottles and bricks. Police fired back with tear gas and smoke bombs. Three police officers were injured. One hit in the face by a brick.
(CROSSTALK)
YOUNG: Monday afternoon the City of Ferguson released a statement about the shooting. We are deeply disappointed with the violence that took place last night. This kind of behavior from those who want to cause disruption and destroy the progress from the last year will not be tolerated.
(CROSSTALK)
YOUNG: But a year after Michael Brown was shot and killed by Officer Darren Wilson, tensions remain high. This afternoon, more than 50 protesters were arrested in downtown of St. Louis. They were calling for the dismantling of the Ferguson Police Department. And with officials declaring a state of emergency in the county there was frustration with the all too familiar scenes.
WESLEY BALL, FERGUSON CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: I think this is just another tragic reminder that weapons in an already wounded community is a recipe for disaster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Ryan joins us. Now, Ryan, what's happening to night?
YOUNG: Well, Anderson, I really think you have to focus on that high way scene and you just see so many protesters getting on that highway. And at some point the drivers who were involved in that, they got fed up. They tried to drive through some of the protesters. You can see people kicking at a car. That is something that people are worried about because obviously they don't want anything to spill over on to the highway or anywhere else.
Here's an outside of the Police Department. You look behind me there are less than a dozen people out here so far. People are just waiting to see what happens next. Anderson.
COOPER: Ryan, thanks very much. Joining us on two central figures in everything that unfolded last year and ever since State House Member St. Louis Police Officers Association Official Jeff Roorda, just writing a book about Ferguson entitled "Ferghastan -- "Ferghanistan: The War on Police", also St. Louis City alderman, Antonio French. It's good to see you both.
Alderman, you were there when the shooting broke out last night after generally peaceful protest. Can you take me through what happened? And did it seem like the protesters were involved?
ANTONIO FRENCH, ST. LOUIS ALDERMAN: No, it was after the initial interaction between the protesters and the police line. The police had formed a very familiar scene from last year dressed in riot gear across West Florissant. And it was a very tense situation for awhile but that crowd dispersed and a portion of that crowd went to the back down north on West Florissant towards the businesses. As they congregated, there was a group of folks who were just been hovering around.
These are the folks I would describe as opportunists who look for things and situations to commit crimes. And they broke windows, began to loot. A few of us went down there to try to stop people from looting and blocking the open windows. The gunshots started coming. It was a few at first and then there was a lot. People started running. It was chaotic. Only afterward did he learn someone was hit across the street. And later we found out it was officer involved.
COOPER: Jeff, do you think what happened last night could have been avoided in any way? Or the, you know, few agitators going to, you know, create this kind of situation again?
JEFF ROORDA, STATE HOUSE MEMBER, ST. LOUIS POLICE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION OFFICIAL: Absolutely. It could have been avoided, Anderson, but you know the formula for avoiding it would be for us to be honest with each other about what got us here. And all of this talks of police reform, it's gotten us nowhere.
[21:05:00] Police officer shooting deaths are on the rise. Fatal shootings by police of young black men are on the rise. And we got nowhere because we haven't concentrated on the central issue which is conditions that these kids live in.
COOPER: Alderman, what about that? I mean there has been a lot of talk for the need for reform. There is an interim police chief who's talking about from community policing. Is that something you that you support? Is that something that you believe would actually make a difference?
FRENCH: So I am in favor of community policing. I think what we have now is something that looks more like an occupying force. And that's what generates this tension that has boiled over in the last year.
And so, I'm hopeful that new leadership in the Ferguson Police Department and the Ferguson City Government will lead to change. But I think there is a frustration that a year later, there has not been the kind of change we would hope to have seen by this point. There's been some faces that have changed but the system itself is still in place.
COOPER: Jeff, when you hear...
ROORDA: Right.
COOPER: ... about an interim police chief talking about getting officers out on the streets, getting officers into the community, getting to know people, does that just seem -- I mean do you buy any of that?
ROORDA: Well, here -- listen, Anderson. We've heard this same tired chorus and Antonio's been the maestro of this course. That everything is law enforcement's fault, no matter what bad behavior is exhibited by the rioters, looters, arsonists, shooters, that somehow that lands on law enforcement's shoulders. And until we start asking people to take responsibility for their own behaviors and figuring out what underlines the behaviors, we're doomed to repeat this.
And I -- It is really a disgrace that we haven't made any progress over the last year because of the anti-police rants that folks like Alderman French have gone on. It's been very unproductive and hasn't contributed to any forward movement.
COOPER: Alderman, I want you to be able to respond to that?
FRENCH: Yeah, so Jeff is a union official continues to avoid any level of additional police accountability is made our progress very difficult...
ROORDA: We're the most accountable people in the country now?
COOPER: Let the Alderman speak. Then, you can respond.
FRENCH: Thank you.
ROORDA: Fine.
FRENCH: ... if we sat down as partners and tried to better our community. The fact though is that for many of these communities, such as Jeff is not actually a member of this community. And so, that Jeff and the rhetoric that he's been spouting, has become the face of policing in St. Louis as a dangerous thing both for citizens and police. So I think Jeff needs to check his own behavior if he really wants to help us move forward. Jeff, what about that?
ROORDA: Yeah. Well, listen, most of the aldermen have a good relationship with the police association. There is 28 aldermen in St. Louis with the vast, vast majority, except for the handful of Antonio's acolytes we've got a great relationship with them very engaged with them, trying to move the community forward and Alderman French is the one that's been to that. I mean we begged him to come to the table with us when he was trying to advance civilian oversight board. And have this interaction. I just hate to tell you that he just suggesting he wanted no part of it. He is the most dismissive alderman in St. Louis City Government.
COOPER: And very briefly Alderman then we got to go.
FRENCH: We sat down and we talked and we did try to work out some language. But any level of accountability has been rejected by Jeff and union leadership. I want to make a clear distinction. The officers who work in our neighborhoods, the officers we have a relationship. Many officers have great relationships with our community but the union leadership however is not...
ROORDA: But not with you, alderman. Not with you, alderman.
COOPER: All right Alderman French I appreciate you being on...
FRENCH: All right.
COOPER: ... Jeff Roorda as well. Thank you.
Coming up next. Hillary Clinton weighing into the controversy over Donald Trump's latest vow and his war words with Megyn Kelly. Remarks some Republican rivals call, "Over the line."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:12:35]
COOPER: Well, certainly, no apologies from Donald Trump today or over the weekend for remarks he made about Fox News debate moderator Megyn Kelly. In fact, he says she owes him an apology. Mr. Trump got things going right here on CNN Friday night a day into his post debate feud with her.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: "She starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions, and, you know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of here wherever but as she was -- in my opinion she was off-based."
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: But that was Friday night, it touched a nerve among conservatives and then other RedState's Erick Erickson, quickly disinvested Trump from a high profile candidate forum of the weekend. Mr. Trump responded on a tweet calling Erick Erickson his words a "major sleaze and buffoon." By the weekend, some of Trump GOP rivals were weighing in about his comments about Megyn Kelly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLY FIORINA, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They were completely inappropriate and offensive comments. Period.
GEORGE PATAKI, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We all know they are reprehensible. In my view, just one of many reasons why Donald Trump is unqualified and unfit to be president of the United States.
RAND PAUL, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think we should reward vulgarity. And I don't think vulgarity equates with insight.
JEB BUSH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Give me a break. I mean, are we--do we want to win? Do we want to insult 53 percent of all voters? What Donald Trump said is wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We're not surprised that Mr. Trump does not agree with either the reaction or notion that he was talking about anything inappropriate when he was referencing blood and Megyn Kelly.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: You could see there was anger spilling out of her eyes. And this is what I'm talking about blood pouring out of her eyes. And then I went one a little further and I said, you know what, this is was a -- in a later on, then I went on a little further and I did even finished my statement that's the amazing thing because I would have said, nose and ears because it's a very commeting when you say, blood pouring at the nose, the eyes, the ears. And I was going to -- but then, I wanted to get into jobs or whatever we've talking about. So, I didn't actually even finish the statement.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: He went on to tweet this about Megyn Kelly. "Oh, really, check out innocent at Megyn Kelly discussion on -- at "Howard Stern Show", five years ago. I am the innocent pure one." For the record, during "Stern Show", Miss Kelly talked among other things, about pregnancy, breast size and the effect on her and her husband's sex life. So, certainly no apologies from Donald Trump then a criticism from Republicans. And today, Hillary Clinton got into the act. Senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny has that.
[21:15:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What Donald Trump said about Megyn Kelly is outrageous.
JEFF ZELENEY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump spilling over into the Democratic primary.
CLINTON: Megyn Kelly is a strong woman and more than capable of defending herself against Donald Trump. I'm worried about what Republican policies would do to the rest of America's women. And I will continue to speak out and speak out about that.
ZELENY: Today in New Hampshire, Hillary Clinton weighed in for the first time on Trump's controversial remarks.
CLINTON: If you just focus on -- maybe the biggest showman on the stage, you lose the thread here. The thread is that the Republicans are putting forth some very radical and offensive positions when it comes to women's lives. ZELENY: She blasted the full Republican field saying all women should be on alert over the candidate's fierce opposition to abortion rights. Even in the case of rape and incest.
CLINTON: I said it was offensive. I said it was outrageous. I stand by that. I think more people should say the same. They should be going after him. The Republican Party is going to have to deal with him. I don't want that forgotten. So, yes I know it makes great T.V. I think the guy went way overboard, Offensive outrageous, pick your adjective. But what Marco Rubio said has as much of an impact in terms of where the Republican Party is today.
ZELENY: Bill and Hillary Clinton have known Trump for years. He contributed to her senate campaigns and family their foundation. They attended his wedding. She tried to distance herself from Trump today.
CLINTON: I didn't know him that well. I knew him. I knew him. I happened to planning to be in Florida and thought it would be fun to go to his wedding because it's always entertaining. Now that he's running for president it is a little more troubling.
ZELENY: She came to New Hampshire to unveil a plan to rein in student loans and make college affordable.
CLINTON: We need to make a quality education affordable and available to everyone willing to work for it without saddling them with decades of debt.
ZELENY: What else could be troubling, Trump's surge in popularity and attention. Showman or not, Hillary Clinton is eager to seize the moment and try to link the full Republican field to Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Zenely joins us. Now, Jeff, and clearly that's what she is trying to do and has been trying to do even back to the first interview she did with CNN a couple of weeks ago with Brianna Keilar, saying kind of pivoting off trump and labeling whatever he has said that somebody might find offensive kind of trying to label the entire GOP field with that?
ZENELY: No question Anderson and she did it specifically today against Marco Rubio. I thought it was interesting that she's singled him out and him out alone. Why is that? You talked to a lot of Clinton advisers. They are significantly worried about the prospect of him rising. If he would ever get the nomination, they belief that is a contrast that will be very difficult for them in the general election, of course that gets way ahead of things here, we're still in the middle of a primary fight. But her singling out Marco Rubio is interesting.
But, Anderson, Donald Trump has taken all the oxygen out of the race even on the Democratic side. If he wasn't here we'll be talk more about the fact that Bernie Sanders is only six points behind Hillary Clinton here in New Hampshire.
COOPER: Right, and had large turnout. I think the largest turnout so far.
ZENELY: No question. Tens of thousand of people across the country again this weekend in Portland, Seattle of 28,000 people at one of the rallies, so clearly tapping into -- kind of the reverse of what Donald Trump is tapping into -- on the Democratic side here.
So Hillary Clinton I think is also just fine with all this Donald Trump business. It allows her to do a couple of things. One, kind of ignore Bernie Sanders. And two, paint all these Republican candidates with the broad, broad brush.
COOPER: Yeah, Jeff, Zenely. Jeff, thank you very much. I want to talk to our GOP strategist, Anna Navarro, former Senator Ted Cruz, communication instructor, Amanda Carpenter, Democratic, excuse me -- Democratic strategist Paul Begala, he Supports Hillary Clinton and runs a pro-Clinton super PAC.
Paul, do you think that, that Jeff is right, that if it wasn't for Trump, that there would be a lot more -- maybe negative focus on Hillary Clinton and the rise of Bernie Sanders? I mean...
PAUL BEGALA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Sure.
COOPER: He got, you know, 28,000 people; I think 9,000 would be turned away at that rally in New Hampshire.
BEGALA: Zenely's inarguably correct, I think, right? And what Bernie is doing is really impressive, is really remarkable I say. This is a pro Hillary guy. But it is not the same thing as what Mr. Trump is doing. Bernie is not insulting anyone. He's not insulting -- I don't know with the Democratic equivalent would be to Mr. Trump insulting Mexicans and immigrants and POW, and now Fox News hosts.
Bernie's not doing any of that. He's not even attacking Hillary and Hillary's his opponent. What Bernie is doing right now has enormous potential for good for the Democratic Party because he's drawing his huge crowds -- I hope as an operative, there are operatives there, registering people, making sure they're registered to vote, that's all a good thing.
This is not at all like what Mr. Trump is doing. And everything Bernie is saying by the way, I can sell in a general election. Bernie is saying income inequality matter, jobs matter, we have to raise the minimum wage, expand social security.
[21:20:03] Those are all perfectly defensible position to the middle of the country. What Mr. Trump and the rest of Republicans are saying, it insulting Ms. Kelly, or as Hillary pointed out, Marco Rubio saying that a woman the victim of rape should not have access to terminate that pregnancy...
COOPER: Well.
BEGALA: ... that's really going to hurt them in the general election.
COOPER: And Anna is, is it merely wise for Hillary Clinton to try link Trump to the rest of GOP field, but is it do you think it is going to work?
ANNA NAVARRO, CNN GOP STRATEGIST: Yeah, I think that really depends on who the nominee is. I do think Marco Rubio could be a huge contrast with her and I think Marco Rubio could explain his position. He is personally formed by his faith against any exceptions on, you know, on the abortion issue. He thinks that life begins at conception and there is no exception.
Now, he has voted for and supported legislation, he's has pragmatic and voted and supported for legislation that included these exceptions. So I think he's done well a lot of Democrats have done for decades, which is say, personally, I am against abortion, but I am going to, you know, vote this way on legislation.
His taking a page from Democrats and how democrats have handling being Catholic for decades and decades and decades...
COOPER: And we.
NAVARRO: ... we've seen the Kennedy's do it, we've seen John Kerry do it, we've seen Joe Biden do it. You know, they can be Catholic and yet they can be pro-abortion. Well, you know...
COOPER: Right.
NAVARRO: ... Marco's also, you know...
COOPER: OK.
NAVARRO: ... form based on his faith.
COOPER: Amanda, you've said that Donald Trump is essentially loading bullets for Hillary Clinton's allegation as but a war on women.
AMANDA CARPENTER, COMMUNICATION INSTRUCTOR: Yeah. I mean this is how I see the situation. Hillary Clinton is itching to fight the war on women and what Donald Trump is saying is essentially loading the ammunition for her that she will use against, not only Donald Trump, but the entire Republican field.
Listen well, we are going to have a hard time this election. We know the war on women is coming, I don't know why we do anything to stoke it further and Donald Trump is hurting the entire party with these hurtful comments.
COOPER: Paul, the thing -- I mean it's going to be easy for Democrats, from now until November of 2016 to link Donald Trump to the party as whole even if he ends up running as a third party candidate I mean is it going to be?
BEGALA: Well it is not just Mr. Trump. What Mr. Trump simply says what Republicans believe just in a more unvarnished way, set aside Mr. Trump, OK. Scott Walker governor of Wisconsin repealed Wisconsin's equal pay law for women and I think all of them oppose the Democrat's proposal to strengthen equal pay laws for women. That's not going to do with Mr. Trump. Jeb Bush said, I don't believed we're going to be spending $500 billion on women's health and brags about wanting to defund contraception.
COOPER: He then has said he had misspoken, by the way.
BEGALA: Of course he misspoke, because he took a stupid position on issue, he favors defunding contraception. That's nothing to do with Mr. Trump. OK? There is a war on women. Republicans today...
NAVARRO: No, no. Paul, he's favors defunding...
BEGALA: ... are running on the most anti-women.
NAVARRO: ... planned parenthood.
BEGALA: And title 10, Anna which by the way his father wrote into the law.
NAVARRO: He favors...
BEGALA: Title 10.
NAVARRO: OK, well he...
BEGALA: OK well public health services acting funds contraception...
NAVARRO: ... he favors de funding planned parenthood which we have seen some of the most gruesome, callus videos come out in the last several weeks and that's another thing we are not talking about, because Donald Trump is sucking up all the oxygen in the room.
BEGALA: This is going to be an enormous liability with or without Mr. Trump on the ballot for the Republicans. Republicans are running -- I'm really very annoyed -- anti-women campaigns. It's going to work.
COOPER: Well, I mean Amanda it was interesting, because in 2012, the war on women, you know, was a major talking point for Democrats it gets legitimate rape comment Romney's binders full of women. Is Trump essentially opening up to the party to that same criticism all over again?
CARPENTER: I think he is but I don't think the other Republican presidential candidates should be afraid to confront Hillary Clinton on the life issue. The planned parenthood videos that Anna referenced are sort of a game changer. Hillary Clinton came out and said it first that she saw pictures from the video and was disturbed by those pictures.
Later she went out and said she would look to defend planned parenthood. I think she should be forced to do just that and talk about how she felt when their workers who appear to be very inhumanely discussing the sale of fetal organs. I mean this is a conversation that is necessary and Republicans are very strong ground on saying that we find this objectionable. And so, I'm happy to have that flushed out and I do think it is a winning play for Republicans.
COOPER: Amanda Carpenter, Anna Navarro, Paul Begala, good conversation, thank you. Stick around I want your get all your take on the departure of a key Trump insider and parting advice for a candidate he still think should be president. We're going to talk about his assessment of Mr. Trump's tone. And the real message that he said these conservatives or this controversies, I should say, are obscuring. Roger stone joins us ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:28:39]
COOPER: This weekend Roger Stone was a top Trump campaign insider. Though he remains a supporter, a fan even his now an outsider, fired or resigned depending on whom you believe. He argues that all these facts that Donald Trump is getting into are actually detracting from Trump's larger more important message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROGER STONE, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: There is a Trump maxim which is also a stone maxim. If some body hits you hit them back but harder. I agree with that, but not if your candidate running for the president of the United States. It's different to be a real estate developer, or a mogul or a celebrity television star. But in the realm of politics you'd be better off to ignore those criticisms and moved back on to your main message...
COOPER: It's time wasted, you're saying.
STONE: Yeah in my view, it just not productive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Back with us now, Paul Begala, also joining us republican strategist Rich Gailen, who serve as communications director for house speaker Newt Gingrich, also former Reagan White House political director Jeffrey Lord, our newest political commentator and also a Trump supporter. Jeff, I mean what does it say that Roger Stone is certainly no shrinking violent any kind of legendary for provocative tactics in Republican circles has parted ways with the Trump campaign however it may have happened?
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I take Roger's point, I've known Roger for years. I have immense respect for his capabilities. We worked together in the Reagan campaign. I have to say candidly, I think he is probably right. I think this will inevitably happen.
[21:30:00] Stories like the Megyn Kelly story have a short shelf-life. I mean we will all move on to something else. I noticed today that Rush Limbaugh on his show was saying, in essence the same thing that he was advising -- I think he used the term free advice or something of made you to Donald Trump, to move on and get back to the one who brang you. Which in Rush's case, I think he was talking about immigration and some of the other issues. So I really don't doubt that this will happen at if some point just by the nature of a presidential campaign. COOPER: And well in Paul, it seems like it may already be happening I mean there's reports that now, you know, Trump is sort of had a conversation with Roger Ailes. It maybe, you know, offenses have been mended he's going to be on our morning show tomorrow his going to be on Fox, I think as well.
Megyn Kelly, you know, has said tonight it's time to move on. She's not going to be responding. And look, I think she's come out of all of this. I think she's a, you know, a first-class act, and a, you know, really great on television, great on what she does.
But it does seem, and it seems like the Trump campaign may have some policy papers, the maybe putting out or at some point soon put out which is also know the thing that Roger Stone said they should be doing.
BEGALA: Right and he's -- Mr. Trump's going to miss Mr. Stone. Roger Stone is hated on my side of the aisle, but I really respect his talent. Enormously talented guy. And Mr. Trump would do well to lure him back I listened to your interview with him and Roger's took clearly has affection and admiration for Mr. Trump, but here's what's happening. Its personal campaign, Trump is personally in charge. The only voice he is listening to, the voice inside his head, it singing hail to the chief.
But the party now, even Fox News, which is de facto part of the Republican apparatus has been brought to heel against Mr. Trump, he is serious, he's the pirate in that movie Captain Philip. Look at me, look at me, I'm the captain. And he's telling the Republican establishment, you know, what he is the captain.
COOPER: Your saying he is a Somali pirate now?
BEGALA: He is a Somali pirate. Better teeth, but the he -- and but by the way they were Republican party does not have the navy seals to rescue them the way Tom Hanks did in the movie.
COOPER: Rich, what do you make with what Paul was saying.
RICH GAILEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIEST: Well, I would have gone with this red pirate Roberts.
COOPER: All right.
GAILEN: But here is -- here is why, first of all, I agree with Paul, I think that Roger will be back in the Trump camp as a paid adviser, because Mr. Trump needs somebody like Roger who can say, if you don't do it -- if you don't at least listen to me, I'm going to quit, now he showed that he would do that.
Because what happens is we are, in the first few primaries it's sort of easy to do it yourself you got to Iowa, got to New Hampshire, you go to South Carolina. You can pretty much do it. But on March 1st as an for example. There are 12 primaries on the Republican side, 13 I think on the Democratic side. You need to have an established leadership team in your campaign that can, that can work all of that while you as the candidate are doing your job.
So, it would not surprise me a bit if by the end of this week, Roger's back on board and I think that would be fine.
COOPER: Jeff, I mean everyone and I include the media in this and, you know, loves when a candidate is blunt not handled by a bunch of strategists. I enjoyed my interviews with that I had so far with Donald Trump, and good T.V and it's refreshing that talk somebody like him and he can be very charming. Is there such a thing though as too much of that approach, particularly when you're seeking the highest office in the land? I mean getting into fights with reporters who are, you know, asking, OK, tough questions, but nothing completely out of the realm of the ordinary?
LORD: And I think the beef with Megyn Kelly was context. You know, for instance the Rosie O'Donnell situation, that actually was begun as I understand it by Rosie O'Donnell on the view and so basically he was responding to her and she said all sorts of nasty things. But, you know, I take your point but Donald Trump, any one for that matter Donald Trump is going to be Donald Trump as just as Hillary Clinton is going to be Hillary Clinton. And at this stage of their lives, you know, they're not going to change (inaudible)...
COOPER: But can a president of the United States in this day and age, you know, be retweeting some body calling Megyn Kelly a bimbo?
LORD: I -- you know, in all candor, Anderson, I am not sure. I think the ground rules here are changing I mean Twitter itself is a very new situation. One can hardly imagine Abraham Lincoln or Andrew Jackson...
COOPER: Right.
LORD: ... or maybe Andrew Jackson might have done some of these things.
COOPER: Well lot's help who ever is president doesn't have the time to be on Twitter, because if they have time to be like coming up with tweets I say it's 4:00 in the morning as Trump as now tweeting out. You know, I think we need to refocus., but we got to leave it there, Rich Gailens always good to have you on, Jeffrey Lord, Paul Begala, thank you.
Just ahead more insight into What makes Donald Trump tick, David Gergen has written about it, suggesting Mr. Trump is a narcissist, but also that is not necessarily a bad thing to be one.
[21:35:00] And in fact, many great leaders have narcissistic personalities or narcissistic traits. We'll talk about that with David Gergen and Dr. Drew Pinsky, you will hear from both next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: We talked before the break about Donald Trump tone, and whether what he says is now getting in the way of his core message. In essence that the personal Trump is hurting the political Trump. That's the question is it senior political analyst David Gergen wrote about it today. In the cnn.com he titled, what explains Donald Trump's arrogance. In it he explores the ideas of narcissistic leadership which he points out is not necessarily a bad thing. I spoke to David earlier this evening as well as Dr. Drew Pinsky host of HNL's "Dr. Drew".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: But David, is a fascinating piece you wrote and you pointed out that societies actually need narcissistic leaders because they tend to be strong people, who have a lot of charisma, a powerful drive to get results or what psychoanalysts call productive narcissists. What's the downside to those kind of people?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I drew heavily, Anderson, upon Michael Bacabee, who is a psychoanalyst as well he's been a corporate consultant to CEO's for many, many years very substantial and I know a leadership guru.
And as he points out there, you know, as Freud said there are productive narcissists, people who are strong leaders at times of turbulence feet.
[21:40:00] You know, the public is looking for someone like a Trump who had -- who presents a lot of strength. The downside is that, in effect the success can go to the head of a narcissist and they suddenly become not only self -obsessed and self-absorbed, but they begin to go off the rails. They become socially isolated. They don't accept advice. They don't listen to others. They're distrustful.
And then, when they're attacked or someone seems to be threatening them verbally they hit back really hard and all of those characteristics of course, are what we are seeing with Donald Trump. I have seen him in his private moments when he is I think were much more productive. But the Trump who has been in public fits that role of a narcissist that you really have to wonder about, you know, has he created a trap for himself.
COOPER: Dr. Drew, it is interesting. I mean to David's point, Donald Trump is when you're meeting with him one on one, when you're even interviewing him, he can be incredibly charming. There's a great appeal to him. I mean, I enjoyed -- I've done two interviews with him and I've enjoyed the entire process even when he is, you know, pushing back hard on me or, you know, he is saying something negative to me, it's a pleasurable conversation. It's an interesting stimulating conversation.
Isn't any person who decides to run for president, or most people in public life, I mean whether it's Donald Trump or somebody else, aren't they most likely narcissists, including most people on television?
DREW PINKSY, DR. DREW HOST: Absolutely. I -- yes, I have the only published literature that shows that that people that is true, that people that narcissistic injuries early in life this is a bid to manage those injuries. It doesn't mean you have to be a full blown narcissist? I'm not talking about narcissists... COOPER: What do you mean narcissistic injuries?
PINKSY: Abandonment, neglect certain sorts of insufficiencies in childhood that may cause these people these narcissistic traits and we're not talking about narcissistic disorders. We're talking about narcissistic traits that can, as David pointed out, be very, very useful in situations like this. And you got to wonder whether he's amplifying some of his narcissistic traits publicly now because and what you've said about him in a private moment, suggests to me he doesn't have the greatest liability of being a narcissist which his empathic failure.
He is able to have a boundary between you and him. He is able to deal with you respectfully and with some degree of empathy. Lack of empathy is the single greatest liability of being a narcissist.
COOPER: David, I mean, you don't...
GERGEN: You have how to wonder, Anderson, whether he is invented, you know, you have to wonder whether Donald Trump has invented a public persona. Somebody he suddenly becomes...
COOPER: Right.
GERGEN: ... on stage and, you know we've seen that with a lot of people. What -- it is absolutely true that narcissists have often accomplished great things. Franklin Roosevelt, Winston Churchill, even Gandhi. The best -- the most effective narcissists are ones who are -- who have this narcissistic trait but they, they hide it, they take it, they anchor it, so it's not well seen. Lincoln falls into that category. But you really have to wonder with Trump is this mostly is it a partly public act, public persona that he is adopted over the years?
And it works for him politically why not keep doing it even though it smashes a lot of the truths, you know, or holding our heads about how a politician, and how a leader, especially a president ought to behave.
COOPER: So Drew, I mean, the term narcissism has got obviously a very negative connotation but you say it's not...
PINKSY: Right.
COOPER: ... you don't think of it necessarily as a bad trait per se?
PINKSY: I really don't. It has liabilities like any trait. And it has strengths like any trait and if you're going to be a leader you kind of have to have a certain amount of narcissism, you have to need other people. You have to have a vision. You have to sort of be able to have a great trust in your own vision for things. Where, again, where it starts to break down as if you get so absorbed in your own sense of things that you don't perceive reality on reality's terms or you don't take input from people close to you.
COOPER: David, you know, when I talked to Trump out of camera for the first time or second time in the interview I do with him. You know, I asked him if he would change his tone when he became president. Do you think it is possible -- he said he would, do you think it's possible for somebody like him to change their tone?
GERGEN: I think he is going to find that if he really wants to win the nomination, and he does obviously have a more durable following than almost any pundit thought, then he is going to have to move. I thought it was a negative sign when he divorced Roger Stone. Michael Huckabee makes the argument that one of the things you need to do is stay anchored as narcissism and you need a side kick, you need a counselor who keep your anchor.
COOPER: Sure.
GERGEN: Losing Stone I think was a mistake. But he has now made these signs. He is going to put out position papers. He is going to do some of the things Roger Stone wanted him to do.
COOPER: Yup.
GERGEN: And maybe he is starting to move in the direction of having some conventionality and calming down some which I think would serve him over time.
COOPER: Thank you Drew Pinsky, David Gergen, thanks.
Well, just ahead, an unarmed 19-year-old college football player caught on surveillance video damaging property at a car dealership. What isn't on the video him being shot dead by a rookie police officer. What we know. Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:48:43]
COOPER: Police chief in Arlington, Texas is promising a thorough investigation after a rookie police officer shot and killed an unarmed 19-year-old man, college sophomore Christian Taylor, who was seen on surveillance video damaging property outside of a car dealership when police showed up, he ended up dead. The shooting it self was not actually caught on video.
Martin Savage is in Arlington, Texas. He joined us again. So what is the police department saying actually led to this young man's death?
MARTI SAVAGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a little after 1:00 in the morning on Friday morning when the surveillance camera saw a person walking on car dealership lot, later identified as Christian Taylor.
At one point, Taylor is seen to be jumping on the hood of a car and actually kicking in a window shield. Later he then gets in his SUV drives through the gates of dealership and then smashes through the front doors of the showroom whereas police were called and it was apparently, inside that dealership that was an altercation and the unarmed youth ends up dead. COOPER: The officers both gave statements to police today and do we
know when they're going to release what the officer said or we don't know yet?
SAVAGE: No, we don't and of course, that's what everybody wants to know. Those two officers it would seem hold the key to at least explaining from their perspective as to what happened inside the dealership. There weren't cameras inside there. So we've been waiting for days to hear the other side of the story.
[21:50:00]They have it now to the authorities. The authorities say they will make it public. They say it will be soon. They won't define soon. They said it definitely won't be tonight.
COOPER: And Martin, the FBI has decided not to take part in an investigation, is that right?
SAVAGE: Yeah. This is kind of interesting and because over the weekend the sheriff -- the police chief made a big deal saying that was going to have the FBI sort of oversee their investigation. The FBI came out with a statement saying they have full faith and confidence in the ability of the police department to do their own investigation and if it's discovered during the investigation that the teenager's civil rights were violated then the FBI will investigate. So it was definitely a kind of thanks but not thanks on the part of the feds.
COOPER: Martin, thanks for the reporting. We'll continue to follow. I want to talk about it with our legal analyst and former Federal Prosecutor Sunny Hostin, also our law enforcement analyst and retired NYPD detective Harry Houck.
There's a lot Harry, we don't know about what happened here. It is interesting though the veteran officer used his Taser, the probation officer, the rookie officer, used his gun. What does that tell you?
HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it could be one of two things. One the fact that he used the Taser first and apparently maybe it didn't work. And an altercation had occurred then between both of them and the rookie officer and it got to the point where the rookie officer felt maybe somebody's life was in danger at the time and he had to pull out his revolver and shoot, all right. So that...
COOPER: But we don't know the location where they were or the sequence?
HOUCK: What we have to wait for now is now that these officers have given statements, right, now what we do is match those statements to the crime scene and the ballistics that are found at the scene. Such as, let's say the officer says we were wrestling with the gun well then it would be powder burns consistent with you wrestling with the gun.
COOPER: Right.
HOUCK: All right, or if he says, I was wrestling for the gun and I was finding that there was no powder burns on the body, which you tells us that the shot is from some distance away.
COOPER: I mean Sunny, just because though, I mean this is obviously doesn't need repeating -- just because somebody is vandalizing cars and drives their car through the window of a dealership. I mean that doesn't justify deadly force necessary.
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Right. It doesn't that justify a death sentence. I think though when you're looking at this video clearly his behavior is disturbing.
COOPER: Right.
HOSTIN: It's very odd. I see perhaps...
COOPER: It seems agitated.
(CROSSTALK)
HOUCK: ... he looks like he might be under an influence some kind of narcotics.
HOSTIN: Influence that he emotionally disturbed, you know, and so police officers should be trained in dealing with what we called EDPs or emotionally disturbed people or people under the influence. And so, I think it's going important the distinction between the veteran officers' actions and the rookie's actions because the Supreme Court has made it very clear that the standard in determining whether or not deadly force is appropriate is the is the reasonable police officer put into that situation what would that reasonable police officer do.
Well, you've got two officers on the scene at the same time. The one with more experience guess what, he just uses his Taser. The one with less experience shoots to kill. And so, I think it's going to be very important as Harry said to figure out where everyone was.
HOUCK: Because that doesn't, you know, we can guess what happened because of that...
COOPER: Right.
HOUCK: ... but we don't know for sure.
COOPER: That's a good point. The fact, Harry and you used to work in your long career, you did internal affairs as well. The fact that three full days went by before the officers are interviewed, is that common?
HOUCK: Well, we're finding it more and more common now because they have a PBA. They have attorneys and so now like this officer here, he had two nights of sleep that they have that they can -- because it's also a traumatizing when you shoot somebody.
COOPER: Right.
HOUCK: I know in New York City what you do is a -- you're involved in the shooting you go right to the hospital. COOPER: Is that right?
HOUCK: You know, and you're treated for stress related injury as a result of that because it's something you really don't want to go through.
HOSTIN: I'm very troubled though by this trend where you have officers waiting two and three days before being interviewed. We saw it in Ferguson, we've seen all over the country.
COOPER: Because it allows them to sort of figure out their story?
HOSTIN: Well, of course. You know, people's memories fade and they also tend to witnesses sort of, don't make things up but sometimes they have memories that are displaced and so I don't think it makes a lot of sense to have an officer wait two, three, sometimes a week before giving an account after what happened.
COOPER: It's also very easy...
HOSTIN: It's so much time to reflect on..
COOPER: ... it's very easy to have somebody also, your attorney, influence you on...
HOSTIN: Absolutely.
COOPER: ... on memory. Memory is something that can be manipulated.
HOSTIN: And we've talked about. That I'm uncomfortable with that.
HOUCK: And you have the right to do that also because...
COOPER: Sure.
HOUCK: ... you are still afforded the same rights as anyone else because...
COOPER: (inaudible) and have an attorney.
HOUCK: ... because specially in this environment now with police officers. Yeah, as an officers you're going to say, listen, I'm to I'm not going to say nothing right now because I don't know if that be pointing the finger at me tomorrow before the evidence even comes out.
COOPER: Right. So it's -- I mean you can see it from both sides what the officers would certainly want to wait time and they deserve to have representation as well.
HOSTIN: Absolutely but to be clear, you know, I am really disturbed by the behavior that we saw on this videotape and we -- a kid in college, why is he vandalizing this dealership?
COOPER: Yeah.
HOSTIN: I think there must be something more to this story. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
HOUCK: Even his father -- his father said something, you know, his father seemed to be very level headed too when making his comments he did and the family did, you know, which was -- which his pretty good as far as I'm concerned.
[21:55:00]
COOPER: The fact that the FBI has declined to take part in the investigation, does that surprise you at all?
HOSTIN: It does surprise me rather. I think it is sort of code for -- listen, we don't think this is a racial event. We don't think that his civil rights were violated. If it turns up there was some sort of civil rights violation we'll look at it. But that is the FBI telling people we don't think those are involved.
COOPER: But it seems that this came from the Arlington police saying, you know, we want them involved and whether that's politics and kind of warming cover whatever it maybe...
(CROSSTALK)
HOUCK: ... said, you know, it is smart thing to say...
COOPER: Right.
HOUCK: ... you know, in front of the people there in that city...
HOSTIN: ... give them refinement, absolutely.
HOUCK: ... to find out what's going on.
COOPER: We'll continue to watch what happens. Harry Houck, thank you, Sunny Hostin as well. We'll be right back with more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Quick look at Ferguson, Missouri, people gathering on the streets there. The sun now down, as you can see, less than 24 hours after what was a very rough night last night. The hope is tonight will be quieter and stay tuned to CNN throughout the evening tonight for all of the latest on that.
There were shots that were fired last night to one protester who is alleged by police to have had a weapon, and fired shots toward police, that protester was shot last night is now in the hospital. He is also facing serious charges.
That does it for us.
We'll see you again at 11:00 P.M. Eastern edition, another edition of 360. Thank for watching.
[22:00:00] CNN tonight with Don Lemon starts now.
