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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Debate Analysis; Trump Makes First Appearance Since CNN Debate. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 17, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:22] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening, thanks very much for joining us.
The breaking news tonight, Donald Trump making his first appearance since last night's CNN Republican debate but all appearances and I emphasize appearances taking a bit of a victory laugh. He just wrapped up a town hall Q&A session in Rochester New Hampshire. A smaller audience to be sure, but as you'll see the same outsize personality. He says he likes winners judging by his opening remarks he clearly thinks he himself is in that category.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We had a little thing called the debate at the Reagan library and it was, it was sort of an amazing thing. We had an incredible time. Thank you. Thank you. That was some evening. I got such great -- look at this. We just wrote this down. "Time Magazine," they did votes as to who won the debate last night, right? So "Time Magazine" 114,000 votes as of 6:00 p.m., Trump 56, Carly Fiorina 19, Rubio seven, Ben Carson four, the rest not doing too good.
Then Drudge, we love Drudge. We love Drudge. Donald Trump 51 percent. We had a total of 668,000 votes cast. Trump 668,000, think of it, 51 percent, second Fiorina, much less, then Rubio, then Cruz, then I won't mention the next name because I don't like him much.
The "News Max" way up ahead. You like this. I like it, too. Donald Trump first place by a lot. The street, the street Donald Trump 52 percent. That's a lot when you have all of these guys. That's a lot. You know, it's not against two people. It's against -- Donald Trump 52 percent, first place. Then you had "Slate" and that's also Donald Trump. So we had a great time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well from there he took questions, the first one is already getting quite a lot of comments tonight. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: So I'm really honored by the crowd and we're going to have some fun now because instead of making the speech, which I've been doing over and over and over. I want to take questions. Don't we like that? Right? OK. All right. Let's start with this group right over here. Come on. OK. This man. I like this guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen, OK, we have a problem in this country, it is called Muslims. We know our current president is one.
TRUMP: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know he's in the even an American, birth certificate, man, but anyway, we have training camps growing where they want to kill us.
TRUMP: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's my question. When can we get rid of them?
TRUMP: We are going to be looking at a lot of different things. And you know, a lot of people are saying that and a lot of people are saying that bad things are happening out there. We are going to be looking at that and plenty of other things. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So I have a question about the Trump wall.
TRUMP: Right, the Trump wall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When it comes to paying off a debt --
TRUMP: Trump wall? See, that's what is going to happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey --
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: That's why I'm going to make this wall so beautiful because when I'm gone, they are going to probably change the name to the Trump wall. I've got to make it beautiful. Big, big and powerful and beautiful. Go ahead. Tell me -- by the way, he said Trump wall, I didn't.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Carly Fiorina, I watched your debate yesterday. She put our company, Lucent Technology, in the ground.
TRUMP: Carly Fiorina, what? Say it again. People might as well hear it. I mean, people have to learn. I thought I'd wait a couple days before I expose her business failure but honestly, it is so ridiculous. Go ahead and tell me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our stock, I invested in my stock and worked for the company for 37 yea years.
TRUMP: Lucent.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, Lucent.
TRUMP: And headed by who?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Carly. TRUMP: That's right. That was before Hewlett Packard. How many
people here believe in global warming? Do you believes in global warming? Who believes in global warming? Raise your hand. Wow. Not much? Do you have your hand up? A little? No? No. Nobody? One person?
[20:05:16] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, sir --
TRUMP: You believe, right? You believe?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: It was Donald Trump tonight in New Hampshire.
CNN's Sara Murray is at the event, joins us now.
Sara, I'm kind of amazed that the first guy who stands up says that the problem in this country is Muslims and Donald Trump doesn't say anything about that to him. Did anybody bat an eye at that?
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: It really is pretty incredible, not only saying the problem in America is Muslims, but also that President Obama is a Muslim, which of course, is not true. And, you know, I think we're now starting to get our first taste how Donald Trump responds to awkward questions from voters. If you're a traditional presidential candidate and you are used to town halls like these, you get questions like this along the way and he sort of have to be prepared to deflect them in one way or another. But I think the interesting thing that Donald Trump is getting a lot of criticism for on twitter is that he didn't really rebut that at all.
COOPER: Right. I think it's not about deflecting, I think if you're an actual leader, if you actually want to lead people in this country and you want to be president to all the people in this country, including the Muslim population in this country, you don't just pander to every loud mouth in your audience.
John McCain got a question like that toward the end of his race I remember and pushed back on someone in the audience. Donald Trump could have easily said, you know what, the problem is not Muslims, every Muslim person in this country and what are you going to do about them and calling the president a Muslim, I mean, it's extraordinary for a guy that claims to be the straight talker that he didn't have the guts to stand up to some loud mouth in his own crowd.
I mean, I just -- again, this is a guy who constantly is saying that he tells it like it is. He's a straight talker. He's not afraid of anything. He seems to be afraid of contradicting somebody yelling at him in the audience. Did anybody seem to care in that crowd?
MURRAY: You sort of heard him be like really, this is the first question? But that as far as he went. He didn't really counter him any further and I think the crowd just sort of moved on. I mean, that was the first question then he got a bunch of others. But I have to imagine. I mean, we followed him along the rope line and yelled and asked him to respond more to that. He did not respond. I have to imagine the next interview that he does he is going to be asked about that. And whether he does really believe that the problem is Muslims because like you said, he didn't address. He didn't refute that statement at all.
You also have to remember that Donald Trump has a long history of saying pretty bombastic things before he was running for president. Remember, this was the guy who was a big birther when it came to President Obama's birth certificate.
COOPER: Right. Of course.
MURRAY: He's known for saying wild things himself. He's tried not to do that this time around.
COOPER: Right. I mean, he made all those claims that he had sent detectives to Hawaii. He never backed up any of those claims. He never showed anything that they allegedly found in Hawaii. I mean, he is yet to actually show any documentation on any of that. I mean, no evidence he actually did send detectives to investigate President Obama's birth certificate anyway.
Sara Murray, appreciate the reporting.
Let's get some perspective now, partisan and nonpartisan alike from CNN political commentator Amanda Carpenter who served as communication director for Senator Ted Cruz. Also with us, Trump supporter, Andy Dean got a start on "the Apprentice," ultimately landing the corner serving as president of Donald Trump's media company, Trump Productions. And joining us as well is CNN senior political analyst David Gergen who has decades of experience with occupants of the oval office.
Andy, let me start off with you. I mean, does it surprise you that Donald Trump who, you know, calls himself a straight talker doesn't standup to somebody in his audience who says the problem in America is Muslims in America?
ANDY DEAN, DORMER PRESIDENT, TRUMP PRODUCTION: Look, look, Donald opened it up to questions and the first guy who asked a question seemed a little bit crazy and Donald laughed it off and quickly moved to the next question. So the idea that Donald Trump - I mean, the beauty of America is that people can say whatever they want and may be crazy and may not agree with it. But the idea that Donald has to be up there and correct every person on, you know, every issue isn't realistic. So that's just not realistic.
COOPER: Amanda is that not realistic?
AMANDA CARPENTER, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR SEN. TED CRUZ: Here is the thing, there is no way Donald Trump can tell questioners he is wrong because those are the exact types of thoughts that he has been cultivating over the past four or five years. Like Sara Murray pointed out, he's the most high-profiler birther that's been. I remember working, you know, when the rise of the tea party started with Jim DeMint and some of us were just so embarrassed that Donald Trump was preaching to this audience and making them more vocal because we didn't feel like that was the focus. I mean, he was repeatedly questioning President Obama's birthplace and I can't imagine that we would go into the next presidential election still re- litigating that pathetic fight.
[20:10:03] COOPER: David Gergen, I mean, you worked a lot of presidents on all difference sides of the aisle. Have you, is it the responsibility of a leader to actually say something?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's the responsibility of a leader to push back against prejudice. That question was heavily lined with precedence. We had two presidents, President after 9/11 and President Obama to his credit, have continually tried to help people understand that Muslims primary are not a problem in America. There are some who are trying to bring terror, but he should have pushed back on that question. He should made it very clear that he's proud to have the Muslims in this country. There are great many of them Americans. And if there are people out there who, you know, who want to do us ill, then we'll take care of them. He did not make those distinctions.
And Anderson, the presidency of the United States is not only the most powerful position in the world, but it also carries a certain moral responsibility toward the health of a society. And if you're going to be a serious candidate for president, you have to step up that that responsibility.
COOPER: We got to take a quick break. We'll continue the conversation.
Next, you heard Donald Trump take shot after shot tonight at Carly Fiorina. A lot of people got their first impression of her last night, a pretty big one as well judging reaction she is getting. Just ahead, the answers to questions that voters may have about her roots, her political background and the kind of business leader she was or wasn't.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:15:13] COOPER: We talk tonight before the break a very raw moment at tonight's Donald Trump's town hall and he opened it up to questions. Here is the first question he got.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen, OK, we have a problem in this country. It's called Muslims. We know our current president is one. You know he's not even an American.
TRUMP: We need this question? This is the first question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But anyway, we have training camps growing where they want to kill us.
TRUMP: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's my question. When can we get rid of them? TRUMP: We are going to be looking at a lot of different things. And
you know, a lot of people are saying that and a lot of people are saying that bad things are happening out there. We are going to be looking at that and plenty of other things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Amanda Carpenter is joining us, Andy Dean and David Gergen.
So again, Andy, you're a Trump supporter. He didn't just deflect it but said he'll look at that, we'll look at the Muslims in America and a lot of people are saying that. And so we are going to be looking at because a lot of people are saying there are bad things happening. I mean, is that really straight talk?
DEAN: That's not accurate, at all.
COOPER: What's not accurate?
DEAN: Well, it's not accurate that he said we'll look at Muslims like you just said.
COOPER: He just said we are going to be looking at that.
DEAN: He said we're going to be looking at that, potential training camps which you may laugh it up but there are potential reports of Muslim radicals, once again, not Muslim --
COOPER: Andy, I spent more time overseas than you have in your little life. So don't tell me about I'm laughing the stuff off.
DEAN: How would you know my past, Anderson?
COOPER: OK. How much time have you spent overseas?
DEAN: Plenty of time overseas. We can compare passports.
COOPER: Great, how much time did you spend in the Muslim word?
DEAN: Not much in the Muslim world.
COOPER: How many times you've been to Iraq and Afghanistan?
DEAN: Anderson, what is your point here? You make it seems like Donald Trump --
COOPER: You were asking me --
DEAN: He's concerned about radical Islam. You laugh it off --
COOPER: The question. I'm not laughing it off. I'm actually appalled. No, I'm appalled the question is about Muslims in America. So are you saying that Muslim in America is the problem?
DEAN: Donald Trump --. No. No one is saying that.
COOPER: The guy in the audience and Donald Trump said he is going to look into that.
DEAN: Anderson, can I have a moment? There is a lunatic in the audience and Donald Trump laughed off the crazy person. Donald Trump does not believe Barack Obama is a Muslim. But you look at his Mideast policy and the things he is doing like the Iran agreement, it put all of us in danger. And that is very, very, serious. Muslim radicals are a serious problem.
GERGEN: Wait a second. Let's go back for a moment, if you would, please.
The guy, the so-called lunatic I should call him stood up and said we have a problem in this country, it is called Muslims. He then went into the birth argument that we have a president who is a Muslim. And that is when Donald Trump said we need this question. He wasn't talking, the question hadn't reached the training camps. When Trump said we need this question and the question, there are two parts of that question, one is birther and the other is we have a problem in this country called Muslims and he then went on after the guy talked about training camps and went on --
COOPER: Andy, you can't tell me that you do not wish the guy you are suppose --
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: Anderson, I'll tell you why people don't trust the media. You know, you and David took one guy who is a lunatic that we all agree is crazy and micro analyzing it. Look at Donald laugh in segment. Let's play it again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen, OK, we have a problem in this country. It's called Muslims. We know our current president is one. You know he's not even an American.
TRUMP: We need this question? This is the first question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But anyway, we have training camps growing where they want to kill us.
TRUMP: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's my question. When can we get rid of them?
TRUMP: We are going to be looking at a lot of different things. And you know, a lot of people are saying that and a lot of people are saying that bad things are happening out there. We are going to be looking at that and plenty of other things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, yes, I see what you're saying --
DEAN: Training camps. COOPER: And in saying that he sort of laugh like we need this
question like this really needs to be the first question, this is going to get me in trouble.
DEAN: Right. Thank you.
COOPER: But as a leader, he could have at that point said, you know what? Muslims in America are not the problem. There are some Muslims who may be a problem and we are obviously, you know, need to investigate that and those people need to be held responsible. But you know, by in large the Muslim population in America is well- assimilated and are Americans just like anybody else. And in fact, we're supporting Muslim regimes around the world. We have our soldiers and marines who have fought and died to help Muslims around the world. These terrorists are killing more Muslims than any other group around. He could have said all of that and that's kind of I would think, I'm imagining he wishes he probably said that, don't you?
DEAN: Look, Anderson, any time you micro analyze one question, of course, he could go back and say things more delicately and more politically correct. There is no doubt in what you are saying is nobody disagreeing with. I don't think Trump would disagree with what you're saying, that the problem is Muslim radicalism and not Muslims. I think comment sense person believes that. So nobody is disputing that but to micro analyze and be dishonest with the audience because some lunatic in a town hall says something that is just not factually correct.
[20:20:08] CARPENTER: Anderson, if I may, I think the past three days has been three events that show Donald Trump is wildly beyond his depth. First, he went on a huge battle promising a national security speech. He did not deliver the goods. Last night there was a debate. Every time issues got substances, he did not rise to the occasion. He went quiet. Tonight, he is in New Hampshire at a rally getting questioned by a fringe person and he gave into the questions. He did not push back at all. He is outside the reality TV show complex at this point and it is showing.
DEAN: He is leading in the polls. He is dominating. The American people just disagree with you flat out.
COOPER: Well, certainly he is leading the polls. There is no doubt about that. I mean, and he is doing very, very well. The question is, you know, long-term what is going to happen and if -- can he be president of all of the United States if he doesn't stand up for Muslims in the United States?
GERGEN: He can't be president if you insult -- president of all the people if you insult women, if you insult Latinos, if you insult Muslims, it's very hard to be a uniting president. And I would just say, Andy, look, I happened to like Donald Trump.
COOPER: Look, I enjoy talking to him, I like him. He's charming. I enjoyed the times I have been able to talk to him.
GERGEN: What we are appealing for is that this is a man who could win the Republican nomination. He could become president of the United States. And we desperately need a president who is effective. But in order to that, we need a person that steps up to the standards that are expected of a moral leader. And that's what we're asking.
It's not enough to say well you're micro analyzing. I'm sorry. Anybody who listened to that question would be deeply offended by the person that stood up and asked it. And frankly, if Mr. Trump wants to win, he is not going to be able to win by rallying people like that.
COOPER: But let me argue Andy's point here for a minute, Amanda, and get you your feedback on this because let me play devil's advocate. Donald Trump has not been in this situation. He is not a practiced politician. He is not used to taking these kinds of questions. This is probably the first time he's had a guy like this jump up and say something. He was probably, you know, you could argue he was caught off guard, why should he who had doesn't have a long track record of holding town hall meetings be held to the same standard that a practiced politician like John McCain who when this happen was able to push back.
CARPENTER: But when on earth has Donald Trump ever been afraid of pushing back? And this goes back to the point I made earlier. He didn't push back because I think he agrees with the largely the premise of the question and that Barack Obama isn't an American. I mean, Donald Trump is a birther. That's how we got to know him over the past few years in the political contact in the era of Obama. And he can't walk it back, therefore he can't push back on the question.
DEAN: That's not correct because Obama produces long form of birth certificate. And then the issue dropped period.
CARPENTER: After Donald Trump pushed it.
DEAN: It shows Donald's ability. It shows ability is isn't a negotiating. He is the only one who was able to get him to produce it. Think about that. That's pretty amazing, actually.
COOPER: Actually, you know, there is --. There is this John McCain moment. Let's just play that from the past. I think we can pulled out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't trust Obama. I have read about him and he's not, he's a -- he's an Arab. He is not --
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: No, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's not?
MCCAIN: No, ma'am. He's a descent family-man citizen that I just have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign is all about. He's not. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: I'm guessing that Donald Trump is going to at some point whether on twitter or what not, come back and just sort of saying not apologize for whatever but say, you know what? Muslims are great Americans, I love Muslims something like that.
GERGEN: He'll walk it back.
COOPER: And he will walk it back.
DEAN: That's right. He does love Muslims.
COOPER: And also, Andy, I was rude to you and I shouldn't have been and I'm sorry --
DEAN: It is OK. I'm used to it. Don't worry.
COOPER: Well, I'm not used to being rude and I shouldn't have -- I was rude to you so I am very am apologetic for that. I'm sorry.
DEAN: Please. It's all good.
COOPER: All right. But it is good to have you on. Andy, we would like to have you back. David Gergen as well. Amanda Carpenter as well. Good discussion.
Coming up next, remember the big battleship fundraiser that Donald Trump spoke at the night before the debate. A veteran's group charged up to a thousand dollars a person just to get onboard. The $64,000 persons. Tonight, just who is the group? Are they what they claim to be and where is the money going to go? You might be surprised. We're Keeping Them Honest tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:28:36] COOPER: That's a kind of date Donald Trump has made much of his commitment to America's fighting men and women. His last event prior to the debate was at a campaign rally aboard the World War II battleship USS Iowa. It was sponsored by a group call Veterans for a Strong America which raised as much as a thousand dollars a person from his appearance.
Now, the question is, as much as a thousand dollars a person for what and for whom is the money for instance going to veterans or the programs to help veterans or even to a group of effective advocates for veterans?
CNN's senior investigative correspondent Drew Griffin tonight Keeping Them Honest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The event was just as powerful as the guns he stood under, Donald Trump Tuesday night on the deck of the warship, there to pick up the endorsement of Veterans for a Strong America, a group touting in its news release as having more than half a million supporters across the U.S.
TRUMP: An endorsement from your group with so many veterans, hundreds of thousands of veterans, I really appreciate that, Joel.
GRIFFIN: But it seems Donald Trump and his campaign didn't bother to check on any of this and wound up getting a fundraising speech for a group that has lost its tax exempt status and shows scant evidence of the 500,000 supporters it touts. Joel Arends is the public face of the group.
DR. ANNETTE BOSWORTH, FORMER SENATE CANDIDATE, SOUTH DAKOTA: I've known Joel for a long time. Joel Arends was a political expert in the area. Before I ran he was my personal lawyer and he was a friend.
GRIFFIN: We'll tell you about Dr. Annette Bosworth and her claims about troubles with Joel Arends in a moment. But first, a bit more about Veterans for Strong America and Arends, who somehow convinced Donald Trump to come to this fundraiser Tuesday night.
JOEL ARENDS, FOUNDER, VETERANS FOR A STRONG AMERICA: I started this organization because politicians are not listening to the veterans.
GRIFFIN: Arends charged between $100 and $1,000 per person for this fundraiser. In a news release, the group claims the money will go to helping veterans and causes Veterans for Strong America supports. But the group does not have a good track record of disclosing where its money goes. A quick check with the IRS finds the Veterans for Strong America actually lost its tax exempt status last May for failing to file required reports. Here is the document from the IRS, which shows that the group is appealing. The latest filing with the Federal Election Commission shows the organization is also flat broke, just $30 in the bank while it has $318 in debts.
So, how could such a group host an event well, so huge? After multiple calls and e-mails went unanswered, CNN was contacted by a campaign finance attorney who says she was just hired by Aaron's to sort things out, but as of now says will have no comment until all the factual information can be gathered. The Trump campaign told us they didn't know anything about all this, until now after the event. The campaign said Trump never met Joel Aaron's until Tuesday night and didn't take a penny from the event and treated it like any other invitation to give a speech on the campaign trail. That brings us back to Dr. Annette Bosworth who was stunned to see her old friend on TV Tuesday night with Donald Trump.
DR. ANNETTE BOSWORTH: Surprise doesn't cover it.
GRIFFIN: In 2014 Bosworth was a Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate in South Dakota and she needed signatures to get on the ballot. There are rules about that, election requirements that this political newbie says she turned to her campaign lawyer for advice. That lawyer was Joel Arends, when she testified advised her that she could sign off on petitions even if she didn't personally witness every single signature on them.
DR. ANNETTE BOSWORTH: And Joel was my friend. I trusted him. When he said you could sign it, I was sure he knew the rules. I have an incredibly humiliating experience for my family and I have the loss of my medical license, and what happened to Joel from the moment he knew that there was trouble, he went out and did a fundraiser for my opponent. I mean, really?
GRIFFIN: The jury didn't buy it. Dr. Annette Bosworth lost in the primary, was convicted of committing election fraud as well as perjury. She's serving three years probation on a suspended sentence of 24 years and she's lost her medical license. Her lawyer she says didn't miss a beat.
ARENDS: Please help me welcome Mr. Donald J. Trump.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Drew, I mean assuming money was raised Tuesday night, do we have any idea how much or where it went?
GRIFFIN: Joel Arends could have taken in as much as $850,000 by our calculations. Probably a lot less than that, Anderson. But we just don't know where the money is. The group is required to file reports, we are going to keep track of it, but they don't have a good track record. Anderson.
COOPER: And whatever is raised, do we know where it would go to? I mean does it go to charity? It sounds like it's a veteran's charity?
GRIFFIN: It is not a charity. As far as we can tell, it's a political action group and just about an hour ago, in fact, we received the statement from the group saying they are advocates for improving VA and providing legal help to the military, advocating for stronger military including advocating for missile defense system. It's really all over the map, but the group says its event was held in full compliance of the law and this, we wanted to show you the veterans for a strong America will continue to be an all volunteer organization, with no employees, no director officer receives a salary or compensation other than for the usual and routine expenses. Anderson?
COOPER: All right, Drew, I appreciate the reporting. Just ahead, a lot of people are saying that Carly Fiorina did very well last night in her debate. Her career at Hewlett Packard came up a lot. What kind of a leader was shoe? And how did she get from the corner office?
[20:34:35]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, a we said, judging about the reaction she's been getting, Carly Fiorina made a big impression for many people. Last night's debate, her grand slam moment, perhaps may have been this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN: Ms. Fiorina, I do want to ask you about this. In an interview last week in "Rolling Stone" magazine, Donald Trump said the following about you, quote, "Look at that face. Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that the face of our next president?" Mr. Trump later said he was talking about your persona, not your appearance. Please feel free to respond what you think about his persona.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLY FIORINA: You know, it's interesting to me, Mr. Trump said that he heard Mr. Bush very clearly, and what Mr. Bush said. I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: I think, she's got a beautiful face and I think she's a beautiful woman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Oh, moments like that are gold to some candidates, especially when there aren't brand names. Fiorina herself has said she went into last night knowing that probably half of the people watching didn't know who she was or even that she was running for president. The other half who were watching last night know her name now. Certainly, they also heard a bit about her ten years as CEO. Tom Foreman tonight digs deeper on her resume tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Outspoken and tough by all accounts, Carly Fiorina has friends and enemies in high places.
[20:40:00]
FIORINA: You ran up mountains of debt as well as losses using other people's money and you were forced to file for bankruptcy not once.
TRUMP: I never filed for ...
FIORINA: ... not twice, four times. A record four times. Why should we trust you to manage the finances of this nation any differently than your managed the finances of your casinos?
FOREMAN: For foes, her most glaring weakness lies in two letters, H.P. Fiorina made big headlines when she was named the first female CEO at that tech giant in 1999, but the headlines were even bigger when she oversaw the mega purchase of compact and HP went into a tailspin losing half its stock value in the burst and tech bubble and laying off 30,000 workers.
TRUMP: The company is a disaster and continues to be a disaster. They still haven't recovered.
FOREMAN: By 2005, Fiorina was very publicly and painfully fired. She told "60 Minutes" about it. FIORINA: It's almost as if they meant to take you down a peg or two.
That kind of thing. Well, if that was their intent they certainly succeeded in that.
FOREMAN: For Wall Street, it wasn't personal. It was business. As soon as Fiorina was fired, HP stock rose seven percent, and Fortune Magazine's assessment is blunt, her run as CEO, well, it just wasn't all that great.
FIORINA: Keep up, ladies.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
FIORINA: Sorry, I walk really fast.
FOREMAN: But Fiorina was soon pushing on advising John McCain's presidential bit in 2008, running for Senate in 2010 giving us the famous demon sheep ad and an infamous open-mike moment when she insulted Barbara Boxer's hair.
FIORINA: -- saw Barbara Boxer briefly on television this morning, and said what everyone says, god, what is that hair?
(LAUGHTER)
FIORINA: So yesterday. You didn't --
FOREMAN: The Democrat responded by walloping Fiorina in the final vote. Life has hit Fiorina hard, too. Twice married, she's a breast cancer survivor who underwent a mastectomy during that losing Senate campaign and who that same year lost her stepdaughter Lori.
FIORINA: Drug addiction is an epidemic and it is taking too many of our young people. I know this sadly from personal experience.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: Industry analysts broadly agree that Fiorina made some big mistakes in her corporate career, and even as her fans argue against that, they also suggest all the ups and downs have left their candidate ready for everything the campaign and the presidency can fling at her. Anderson?
COOPER: Tom, thanks very much. I want to bring in our panel, chief political analyst Gloria Borger, chief political correspondent Dana Bash and Joe Nocera, an opinion columnist for "The New York Times." You know, Joe, Carly Fiorina, when Donald Trump is going after her record said look, the tech bubble happened, she's basically a victim of circumstances that ultimately the deal with Compact kind of turned out to be a good one.
JOE NOCERA, OPINION COLUMNIST, NEW YORK TIMES: No, that's not true. The deal with Compact was a disaster. They doubled the revenues, and their profits actually went down by the time she had left. Almost everything connected to the Compact merger has either been shuttered or sold and they got in the wrong business. She pushed for it very hard, she alienated a lot of people. "Fortune" magazine was right. She was not a good CEO and yet she walked away with $100 million after six years, with a stock price that was lower than when she came and with profits that were actually lower even though the revenues were doubled. It's astonishing really.
COOPER: And was she sort of targeted by people within the company? Was she ...
NOCERA: She was widely disliked within the company. One of the things I've noticed with her in debates is she's a lot looser than she was. She was much more scripted than, she never went off message. She was almost robotic at times. She demanded total and complete loyalty, she didn't want anybody to descent from her, she pushed out a lot of executives, especially the Compact executives. So, she didn't have any support underneath. So when the board got mad at her and decided she had to go, she didn't have any, she just didn't have any support.
COOPER: Gloria, when it came to handling Donald Trump's comments about her face, foreign policy and connecting with viewers, do you think Fiorina really stood out in terms of last night's debate.
GLORIA BORGER: Yeah, I do. I mean, she -- when he sort of ineptly tried to say afterwards, oh, you know what? I think she has a beautiful face, which I think to lots of women seem just a little bit patronizing. She just stood there and she stared into the camera with this kind of stealing look, and you knew that she wasn't forgiving him and you knew that she thought it was ridiculous, but as far as I'm concerned, the fewer words the better in that situation and I think, you know, she knew that and I think women knew that.
COOPER: Dana, do you see her performance last night as a game changer for her campaign?
[20:45:01]
COOPER: Will it actually, you know, translate to poll numbers, fundraising?
BORGER: I mean, look, it's hard to see it not, given the fact that 23 million people saw her, and that can only help with those who saw her and liked what they saw, and, you know, that's probably going to be considerable in the Republican field, especially when it comes to fundraising.
Part of the reason the Fiorina field and campaign they feel that they haven't been able to get traction is because she's not a household name. She's not very well-known. Especially within the Republican kind of the donor class and so forth, even though she's been a former CEO, but the people who are used giving to Republicans, they are very much hoping this changes it. It did change the last time for her, the last time she did well at the first debate, she was on the undercard, and because she performed so well that allowed her to come to the main stage this time. But I have to say listening to the description of her as somebody who was kind of steely and tough and so forth, it's no wonder she was the way she was yesterday. I was watching her on that stage, and she did not crack. She was sort of stone-faced as Gloria said the entire time. Even when there were kind of some looser moments, she didn't participate in that. She felt like she had to be the straight man.
COOPER: It's interesting. This is not the first time her business record in a political race has come up. Barbara Boxer ran very brutal commercials against her that were very effective. You can imagine the Democrats doing the exact same thing around this time if in fact she becomes the nominee.
NOCERA: And there it will revolve around two things. The Democrats won't really go after her for a Compaq merger but they will go after her for two things.
COOPER: Layoffs.
NOCERA: A lot of layoffs, and she made a boatload of money for an unsuccessful run. Those are the two things they will really focus on.
COOPER: I think the commercial that I remember was focusing on the layoffs and she got all this money and bought a yacht and went off kind of into the sunset.
NOCERA: That's going to be red meat for the Democrats. It's worth pointing out just for the record by the way, that Donald Trump's business record isn't all that great either. She's right about the bankruptcies.
COOPER: Not personal bankruptcy but business bankruptcies.
NOCERA: She's right about the business bankruptcies, and he basically runs a Potemkin company now where he licenses his name, and he doesn't really build anything anymore.
COOPER: He gets a lot of money from licensing his name to buildings and other projects. Joe, good to have you on the program.
NOCERA: Thanks.
COOPER: Dana Bash, Gloria Borger, as well.
Just ahead, what the candidates said last night without uttering a single word, every head tilt and gesture, every grimace and smile, sent a message, whether intended or not. Body language expert translates it for us tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:51:30]
COOPER: Well, three-hour debate certainly adds up to a lot of words, and last night, Donald Trump clocked the most speaking time, 19.5 minutes, Jeb Bush came in second with just over 15 minutes. Scott Walker got the least amount of floor time, just eight minutes. That's one measure of what happened last night, but the candidates' body language also spoke volumes. Today Nick Morgan, a body language expert who coaches executives and politicians, sat down with our Gary Tuchman to translate some of what we saw last night.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A big moment during this debate regarding what Donald Trump said to "Rolling Stone" magazine about Carly Fiorina, her looks slash persona, listen.
FIORINA: I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: I think she's got a beautiful face and I think she's a beautiful woman.
NICK MORGAN, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: He's saying there you go, I made my apology, and she's saying with the pursed lips and the shut eyes, I'm not buying it. She's signaling her disapproval, but in a very subtle way.
TUCHMAN: Donald Trump's body language is the opposite.
MORGAN: The complete opposite.
TAPPER: He said he wouldn't want quote such a hot head with his finger on the nuclear codes. You, as well, raised concerns about Mr. Trump's--
BUSH: Casino gambling in Florida.
(CROSSTALK)
BUSH: Yes, you did.
TRUMP: Totally false.
TUCHMAN: Donald Trump, his arms, his face, he makes so many faces in these debates, I would think you would coach people not to do stuff like that.
MORGAN: The standard wisdom in the political world is, you're dignified and you look presidential and you don't make faces like that, but Trump is making it work, and I think the reason it's working is because he's coming across as authentic. What you see is what you get.
TUCHMAN: This confrontation between Trump and Jeb Bush is sure quite remarkable for you to watch and our viewers, too.
TRUMP: I was a businessman, I got along with Clinton, I got along with everybody. That was my job, to get along with people. I didn't want to -.
BUSH: But the simple fact is --
TRUMP: Excuse me, one second.
BUSH: No, the simple fact is, Donald, you could not take --
TRUMP: More energy tonight, I like that.
TUCHMAN: The relationship between this man and this man during this time, the faces they are each making told you a lot, didn't it?
MORGAN: Yeah, there are so many things going on. So Trump is still rising above the situation in the sense that he feels free to comment on Mr. Bush's energy while this exchange is going on. What he should have done is first of all, get genuinely angry, more powerfully angry. He gives a fake smile, which is what people do who are uncomfortable with anger.
BUSH: You remember the rubble? Do you remember the firefighter with his arms around it? He sent a clear signal that the United States would be strong and fight Islamic terrorism, and he did keep us safe.
TUCHMAN: TV sound down, you could see his face looks angry. Was that natural, was that effective for Jeb Bush?
MORGAN: I think this is one of Mr. Bush's good moments. He finally gets angry, and I guess it took dissing his brother to make him angry.
TUCHMAN: You thought Marco Rubio was stronger in this debate? Stronger than the first one?
RUBIO: You better be able to lead our country on the first day.
MORGAN: He's doing two of the four facial gestures that are positive and engaging and connect with people. He's raising his eyebrows and he is opening his eyes, and that's difficult to do with a bright light shining in your eyes on TV.
TUCHMAN: A lot of us from New Jersey are outgoing, we're out there. Okay? Chris Christie is one of them.
CHRISTIE: I'm as entertained as anyone by this personal back and forth about the history of Donald and Carly's career. I got to tell you the truth, they could care less about your careers.
[20:55:00]
MORGAN: When someone focuses their emotion with anger or excitement or happiness, then we pay attention. So we're paying attention to Christie here with the lowered eyebrows and the scowl.
TUCHMAN: Who did the best in the second debate?
MORGAN: In terms of body language alone, I think Rubio, Fiorina and Christie had the strongest performances. I think Trump held his own.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Ahead, at the top of the hour tonight, new reaction to the anti-Muslim question Donald Trump received at a New Hampshire town hall. That and much more when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:00:00]
COOPER: Good evening. 9:00 p.m. here in New York, and up in New Hampshire, where Donald Trump just made tomorrow's political headlines at a town hall. It happened right after he took a victory lap for last night's CNN debate. Let's take a look at that first.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We had a little thing called a debate at the Reagan library, and it was -- it was sort of an amazing thing. We had an incredible time.
