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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Battle For the White House; Debate Highlights; Bush To Donor I could have Done Better At Debate; Kasich Looks For Surge, Hits Trump and Carson; Can Trump Retake The Lead From Carson?; New Video Of Biker Brawl; American Vet Fighting ISIS in Syria; Clapper: "Very Impulsive, Very Opportunistic"; New Video Of Airliner On Fire
Aired October 29, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:00:33]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. 9:00 P.M. here in New York. Closing in on crunch time for at least some of the candidates after last night's Republican Debate time as well for voters to digest what they saw and for us to keeping the candidates honest and what they said, all of that in the hour ahead. But first, I want to give you a quick recap of the lights of another memorable debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is the man that was a managing general partner at Lehman Brothers when it went down the tube and the Lehman brothers started at all. He was on the board and he was a man of general. And just thirdly, he was so nice. He was such a nice guy and he said oh, I'm never going to attack but then his poll numbers tanked, he got for it that's why he's on the end. And he got nasty.
JOHN KASINCH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I wasn't on the board of Lehman Brothers. I was a banker and I was proud of it. And I travel the country and learned how people make jobs. My State is doing great across the board and guess, what? In 2011, I got a deal and agreement...
REBECCA QUICK, CNBC ANCHOR: Governor, governor. We had a lot of time on this.
KASINCH: ...that he tried to take credit for four years later, it's a joke.
TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you want someone to grab a beer with, I may not be that guy. But if you want someone to drive you home, I will get the job done. And I will get you home.
JEB BUSH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But Marco, when you signed up for this, this was a six-year term. And you should be showing up to work. I mean, literally, the senate, what is it like a French workweek, you get like three days you have to show up? You can campaign or just resign and let someone else take the job. MARCO RUBIO, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, it's interesting over the last few weeks. I listened to Jeb as he walk through on the country and said that you're modelling your campaign after John McCain. And you're going to launch a furious come back the way he did. I don't remember you ever complaining about John McCain's vote record. The only reason why you're doing it now is because we're running for the same position and someone convinced you that attacking me is going help you.
CARLY FIORINA, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, I was fired over a disagreement in the boardroom. There are politics in the boardroom as well and yet, the man that led my firing, Tom Perkins, an icon of Silicon Valley has come out publicly and said, you know, what? We were wrong, she was right, she was a great CEO, should be a great president of the United States because the leadership she brought to HP is exactly the leadership we need in we need in Washington D.C.
QUICK: Mrs. Fiorina, it's interesting you bring up Mr. Perkins because he said a lot of questionable things. Last year in an interview he said he thinks wealthy people should get more votes than poor people.
FLORINA: This is reasons why Tom Perkins and I had disagreements in the boardroom, Becky.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: There's a company called Mannatech, maker of nutritional supplements which you had at 10 year relationship. They offered claims that they could cure autism, cancer, they paid $7 million to settle a deceptive marketing lawsuit in Texas and yet, your involvement continued. Why?
BEN CARSON, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, that's easy to answer. I didn't have an involvement with them. That is total propaganda.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: To be fair you were on the home page of the website with a logo over your shoulder.
CARSON: If somebody put me on the home page, they did it without my permission.
MIKE HUCKABEE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you saw that blimp that got cut loose from Maryland today is a perfect example of government. And what we had was something the government made basically a bag of gas that cut loose, destroyed everything in its path, left thousands of people powerless but couldn't get rid of it because we had too much money invested in it so we had to keep it.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Would you feel more comfortable if your employees brought guns to work?
TRUMP: Yes, I might feel more comfortable. I would say that I would and I have a permit, which is very unusual in New York, a permit to carry. And I do carry on occasion. Sometimes a lot but I like to be unpredictable so that people don't know exactly...
CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have $19 trillion in debt. We have people out of work. We have ISIS and Al Qaeda attacking us and we're talking about fantasy football?
TRUMP: Everybody said it was going be three hours, three and a half including them and in about two minutes I renegotiated it down two to hours so we can get the hell out of here. Not bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was last night. Right now some breaking news, Jeb Bush was moment ago was asked about a conference call with concerned donors he had today. Reporters in New London, New Hampshire he was asked what he was going to do to get better in debates.
John King spoke with two participants on the call. Governor Bush spoke for a bit and acknowledged he could have done better. But he said he was confident in the plan and strategy. Now, we have reaction from some of the 14 million people who saw the debate.
Gary Tuchman spoke to Republicans in Rich County Utah, one of the most conservative corners of a both solidly red state.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Before the debate began, we asked this most loyal of Republicans.
[21:05:03] which candidate are you supporting right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm excited to support Ben Carson for president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ben Carson.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm supporting Ben Carson.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rand Paul. I'm heading toward Ben but I'm not quite sure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am leaning towards Ben Carson right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ben Carson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kasich.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ben Carson.
TUCHMAN: Would the debate change any minds?
TRUMP: But then, his poll numbers tanked and that's why he's on the end and he got...
TUCHMAN: They laughed during some of the debate.
HUCKABEE: I love Donald Trump. He is a good man. I'm wearing a Trump tie tonight. Get over that one. OK?
QUICK: That was good.
TUCHMAN: They also booed.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Does that not speak to your vetting process or judgment in any way?
CARSON: No, it speaks to the fact that I don't know that it's wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What a stupid question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boo, that was bad.
TUCHMAN: All here say they got a lot out of the debate. OK, so once again, seven of you before the debate started said you were intending to vote for Ben Carson. Raise your hand, seven of you who said that.
OK, now how many of you feelings changed after the debate about Carson? Even a little bit. Raise your hand, one, two, three, four, five, so five of you feel differently. You pick Kasich, you still feel strongly about Kasich.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even more so.
TUCHMAN: Even more so. And you picked Rand Paul. You still feel strong about Rand Paul?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
TUCHMAN: The same?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
TUCHMAN: Let's talk to the Carson people.
Ken Hanson is one of the two who staying loyal to Carson.
KEN HANSON, CARSON LOYALIST: Something happened with Ben tonight that you have not seen with any other politician. He actually admitted he was wrong on an issue. And to me that was extremely important because that attests to me that the man's integrity is honesty and his moral condition is in tact.
TUCHMAN: So that made you feel even stronger about Carson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It did.
TUCHMAN: John Spuhler is the republican mayor of the largest town in Rich County, Utah Garden City. He's one of the five that feels differently about Carson.
JOHN SPUHLER, (R) MAYOR OF THE LARGEST TOWN IN RICH COUNTY, UTAH: After this debate, I would definitely be considering some other candidates. Ben is still very high on my list but Carly was super impressive as were some of others.
TUCHMAN: Druci Wadsworth who is leaning towards Carson had an outcome she didn't expect.
DRUCI WADSWORTH, RICK COUNTY UTAH RESPONDENT: He seemed quiet, and I did like his humbleness and I like his morals. But I don't know that he showed the strength that you want to see in the president of the United States.
TUCHMAN: Who do you think show that strength during this debate?
WADSWORTH: Trump.
TUCHMAN: So do you favor Trump?
WADSWORTH: I don't want to. I don't want to but yeah, I might yeah. I might.
TUCHMAN: And this most Republican county, everyone in this room says this country needs a Republican in the White House. But this debate made it clear most of them still don't know which Republican. Gary Tuchman, CNN, Rich County, Utah.
COOPER: A lot of people clearly still to make up their minds. Let's bring the panel Now CNN Political Commentator Atlantic Media Contributing Editor, Peter Beinart, he just within a pre-talk piece on Jeb Bush, also CNN Senior Political Reporter Nia-Malika Henderson and CNN Political Commentator Amanda Carpenter, Conservative Writer, and CNN former Communications Director for Senator Ted Cruz.
So, Peter, I want to quote from your -- this column, you wrote for Atlantic today. You said in the very first line, "If you feeling sorry for Jeb Bush after Wednesday night CNBC Debate, don't." What you say? What do you mean?
PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Because I think Jeb Bush should never have been in the front runner position to begin with. The reason he was anointed front runner overwhelmingly was because he raised a huge amount of money in large donations from people connected to his family. It was never really any evidence if you go back to early this year that voters were excited about voting for him.
COOPER: Well, He had been governor, I mean in Florida, so some people must have liked him.
BEINART: Right, he had a career, right. But he had been out of politics for a long time.
COOPER: Right.
BEINART: It was no chorus of people demanding that Jeb Bush run for president was pretty, even from the spring it was clear he was not a great campaigner. And I think what I argue in the piece is in a way the system worked, which is the fact that he's not a good campaigner. The fact that Republicans for whatever reason are not interested in the idea of having him in. That is not overwhelming the money. It is turning out to be the most important factor and we should feel good about that.
COOPER: And something that's come out of the debates. I mean, it really kind of showing him in stark contrast to some of the others on the stage.
Amanda, just moments ago Jeb Bush acknowledged he had a conference call today would concern donors and he was going to do with other candidates, you know, do and start to quote rudely interrupt in debates, those were his terms to get more time and more substantive questions. Is that going to do it for him next debate, do you think?
AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Here's what's going on, listen, Halloween is coming. Jeb Bush is the walking Jeb. He is a zombie candidate propelled by his Super PAC and a lot of money and bad consultant device. I think the money he had at the beginning of the race was his curse.
[21:10:01] Unlike the other candidates, he didn't have to do the hard work of earning it and making it earn his case for his candidacy to donors in doing that boot strap work...
COOPER: Right.
CARPENTER: ... and as a result he does -- it doesn't have the, you know, political athletic fitness to perform because he never went through that proper spring training period.
COOPER: That's a really interesting point. And then -- and again, it sort of echoes Peter what you were saying. Nia, I mean, today Bush said that his campaign is not on life support, which he have to make an announcement if your campaign is not on life support.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Right.
COOPER: Your campaign maybe on life support. He said he did this for a long call but, I mean, if he has another lackluster performance during the next debate which is only, you know, a couple weeks away, how much longer can he hold out and I guess he's one of the money holds.
HENDERSON: Yeah, that's right. I think as long as he's got that money of course he spent some of it on ads in New Hampshire and if somebody early says it haven't quite moved the numbers just yet but he's still got that bank account and I'm sure he got it because of his last name.
There wasn't much vetting done. I think that's very clear. Not a lot of vetting done in terms of what he's actually like as a candidate and that I think still remains his curse. He's just not a good candidate. He's got no charisma at all that something you can't fake.
Obviously, Marco Rubio has charisma in spades but I still think if you're Jeb Bush, you got a lot of leeway, you've got some room to grow certainly because of that money and already you've got some infrastructure built in the states.
We don't know yet if Marco Rubio is actually going to be able to capitalize on that really strong debate performance he's had passed debate performances where he was really strong but he still hasn't been able to prove that folks in his party, the establishment will rally around him whether that's...
COOPER: Yeah. HENDERSON: ... endorsements or donors, so he's still got convincing of not only the sort of establishment people but also...
COOPER: Right.
HENDERSON: ... just actual voters.
CARPENTER: But one point, you know, Anderson in the last hour you ran a package where Jeb was saying that essentially he was going to start attacking all three GOP senators who are running for president, not only Marco Rubio but Ted Cruz and Rand Paul.
I think this is a devastating mistake. Each of those senators rose to national prominence by beating establishment people like him. There is nothing more the Tea Party would like than a rematch of the three of them versus Jeb Bush and to take them out of this race.
COOPER: Peter, when you look at Donald Trump last night, I mean, I'll point a lot of people expected look, this is going to be a debate on finances, on economic issues. This is something we're going to hear more from him on but he didn't really distinguish himself.
I mean, He says he won all the online votes clearly among his supporters. They feel he did well but you didn't hear a lot of people talking about -- you heard people talk about Rubio. You heard people talking about Cruz. What did...
BEINART: Right, I think that was the biggest shift between this debate in the last two. Donald Trump really dominated the last two whether you think he did well or not and he really didn't dominate this one. You know, I think we've moved into a bit of a post Trump phase not in the sense that he's not a permutable candidate. He's doing very well on the polls but he's not sucking up all the oxygen anymore.
But there's still is this fascinating disconnect which I think your packaged showed with this focus group right. That the elites - that the point of it, people likes me have all talking about Rubio after this debate. Rubio, Jeb, maybe Ted Cruz. Those people didn't mention any of those people, right? They were talking about Ben Carson and Donald Trump. So there's still this fascinating disconnect between these two discourses about the campaign that I think we have to remember.
COOPER: And Nia, I mean, when you look at Gary Tuchman's focus piece - folks group which Peter was just talking about. I mean, almost all the people he spoke to going into the debate were Ben Carson supporters. Why do you think so many people drawn to him especially because he hasn't exactly laid out a lot of policy specifics?
HENDERSEN: Yes, I think two of those people are mentioned his moral character and that's what they like about him. They feel like he's a good person, a good man, a well-mannered and so that's what he presented of course in this debate last night but also interesting, a lot of people went in there thinking they really like Ben Carson and I think a couple of them dropped out... COOPER: Yeah.
HENDERSON: ... and said, well, maybe they want to switch to Trump. But again, Trump and Carson, those are two. I do think it's interesting though that people don't really feel threatened by Ben Carson even on that stage. They didn't want to go after him. So it's almost like they don't take his front runner status, at least in one of this polls very seriously and they feel like maybe he'll fade or he'll be sort of a regional candidate maybe like Huckabee, pick up a couple states in Iowa but not a long-term threat.
COOPER: Yeah. Nia-Malika Henderson good to have you-all, Peter Beinart as well, Amanda Carpenter always. Thank you.
Coming up next, one of the under dogs who thinks he's got a lot of room to grow and a message he thinks can win. Ohio Governor John Kasich speaks out and he joins us tonight when we come back.
Also, new video, the view from right in the middle of the shootout in Waco, Texas. Remember this, well, these Bikers left nine people dead, 177 in custody, amazingly, no charges filed in any of the killings, no charges. Questions now, could that soon be changing, some answers ahead.
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[21:18:30]
COOPER: One candidate who sought all along to distinguish himself from Ben Carson and the Donald Trump. So the political world is been Ohio Governor John Kasich and it's earned him a spot on the Trump target list last night, he certainly did.
Take a look at this give and take in Boulder last night over his record in the governor's office and in the business world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: First of all, John got lucky with a thing called fracking, OK. He hit oil. He got lucky with fracking, believe me, that's why Ohio is doing well, number -- and that's important for you to know.
Number two, this is the man that was a managing general partner at Lehman Brothers when it went down the tubes and almost took every one of us with us, including Ben and myself because I was there and I watched what happened and Lehman Brothers started it all. He was on the board and he was managing general partner.
And just thirdly, he was so nice. He was such a nice guy and he said all I'm never going to attack but then his poll numbers tanked. He's got buried that's why he's on the end and he got nasty. You got nasty. So you know what? You can have him.
KASICH: OK, let me just -- yeah, let me just -- let me respond. First of all, Ohio does have an energy industry but we're diversified. We're one of the fastest growing states in the country. We came back from the dead and, you know what, it works very, very well.
And secondly, when you talk about me being on the board of Lehman Brothers, I wasn't on the board of Lehman Brothers. I was a banker and I was proud of that. I traveled the country and learned how people make jobs.
We ought to have politicians who not only have government experience but know how the CEOs and the job creators work.
[21:20:03] My state is doing great across the board. And, guess what? In 2011, I got a deal and agreement...
QUICK: Governor, governor. We had a lot of time on this.
TRUMP: He tried to take credit four years later. It's a joke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Fiery exchange last night. I spoke with the governor a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Governor, a lot of people thought you had a strong debate last night. There was the exchange you had with Donald Trump. I'm wondering what changed in your calculus of how to deal with him because for long time you indicated you didn't really want to engage with him. You didn't want to go that route and then, there was an exchange last night.
KASICH: Well, Anderson, it really wasn't just to aim that Donald Trump. I mean, I just reached the tipping point when I hear people talk about eliminating Medicaid and Medicare and replacing it with something and I hear another guy talk about deporting 10 or 11 people.
I've been thinking about that for a long time and then these tax schemes which -- and I'm for tax cutting but tax schemes are gong to put us trillions of dollars in debt and put more debt on my kids. At some point I had to speak out and I just sort of reached the tipping point.
Now, look, none of these attacks are personal. They are really my deep concern about us picking somebody who doesn't know how to do the job or making too many promises like, you know, like a chicken in every pot and I have a program that will cut taxes. It will balance the budget. It will do a lot of things to create jobs but the numbers fit together. It's not some made up fantasy plan.
COOPER: Where do you see your lane moving forward from here? I mean, look, clearly, Dr. Ben Carson, Donald Trump, they are the ones leading now in the polls, have been for quite sometime. Dr. Carson seems to be leading right now, taking the lead in Iowa. Where do you see yourself moving forward?
KASICH: Well, Anderson, look, I mean, we don't run this election on the basis of, you know, regional or national elections. So in terms of these numbers, you know, my numbers are probably not going to move until after I do extremely well in New Hampshire.
So what I would tell you is, you know, we compete in Iowa. We've got the best organization in New Hampshire with John Sununu leading -- former senator Sununu leading this organization. We know what we need to do in South Carolina and in the south and in Michigan and then Illinois.
So it's a state by state basis and as you know there have been all kinds of people who peaked only to disappear. I believe you win elections from the bottom up and so national polls are not my great concern. My great concern is that to continue to raise money, to have a good organization and build my organization from the bottom up in these critical early primary states.
COOPER: You know, when you look at history, there have been outsiders before, so-called outsiders before who have, you know, peaked at a certain point and then more establishment candidates, people with more of a political track record have actually gone on to win. Do you see that happening here? I mean, obviously, you're confident about yourself but --
KASICH: Oh, I do. I do, Anderson.
COOPER: ... do you see the success of Carson, you see the success of Trump somehow peaking?
KASICH: Well, my view is, Anderson, people want somebody who can land the plane and right now people are saying OK, throw anything out there and let me take a look. I'm so frustrated with the status quo and Anderson, you know, the use a basketball analogy, I can play, I can hit both the three-pointer and play the inside game.
I mean, I've been an outsider fighting the establishment most of my career. I mean, you don't get to a balanced budget in Washington or turn Ohio around without stepping on a heck of a lot of toes but I know how to get it done, Anderson.
And look, if there's anything this country needs now, it needs to have, you know, a really revitalized economy and I know how to do that in Washington but I'll tell you one other thing it needs, Anderson and that is a renewed spirit, stronger family, stronger neighborhoods, neighbors caring about one another.
So let me take care of Washington with the great team of people to get this economy moving and creating jobs but America's built from the bottom up. I mean, I think you know that you do stories like this on heroes. People at the bottom getting stronger, having confidence, wanting to change the world, that's the one two punch of what I think needs to get America moving again.
COOPER: Governor, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.
KASICH: Always good to talk to you, Anderson, thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Governor John Kasich.
Just ahead, Donald Trump has a chance or had a chance last night to ease Ben Carson's lead in several polls. We'll talk about whether he made the most of that.
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[21:23:21]
COOPER: In the spin room last night Donald Trump gave a typically modest assessment of his debate performance. "I killed it," he said. He touted it to online flash survey that showed he's won. Hours later he took to twitter slamming critics and thanking supporters. Trump went into the debate trailing Ben Carson in several polls not by much but a little bit. Last night was an opportunity to turn those numbers around.
Joining me now is Jeffrey Lord, Trump supporter and former Reagan White House Political Director and a contributing editor at "The American Spectator. Also, Paul Begala, Democratic Strategist, coach survey, pro-Hillary Clinton super-PAC and long time adviser of President Clinton in the 90's.
Paul hadn't heard from you since last night's debate. Let's start with you. You made no secret of your enjoyment of having Donald Trump in the race sort of he didn't have the strongest debate performance. He didn't seem to have big stumbles. Is that almost as important?
PAUL BEGALA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes, when the front runner doesn't stumble, that's a win. And he just not, you know, I was surprised. This is an economic debate. He's a billionaire businessman. I guess he didn't go to his patented move.
You know, last night was also the tip off for the NBA season. And so, you know, Steph Curry has his cross over move that will break your ankles and Kevin Durant doesn't stop and pop and, you know, they all have their signature moves.
Trump's signature move is bashing immigrants and he didn't do it last night. As an American I'm glad but as a strategist, that he's move -- he's going to -- you watch. He's going to come out like to out law guacamole or something. He's going to have to do something crazier on immigration to get his mojo back.
COOPER: Jeff, I mean, the question is whether Trump did anything last night or will do anything in the coming days to blunt Dr. Carson who rise in the polls. Didn't do well?
JEFFREY LORD, TRUMP SUPPORTER: So just keep on being Donald Trump. I mean, I would of course disagree with Paul. His signature is not bashing immigrants. His signature perhaps if you want to put it that way is opposing illegal immigration.
[21:30:0] There is a considerable difference in a country that's 100 percent filled with descendants of immigrants. So I think he just going to keep on doing what he's doing. The most important thing, I think as we move along here is the ground game. And in talking to somebody in Iowa the other day -- I guess it last week that ground game is well underway here and is very organized, not only in Iowa but New Hampshire and South Carolina. So there's a matching effort that's a bit out of camera range to what you see in the polls and those -- most of the polls he's still doing very well.
COOPER: Paul, what about Jeb Bush? I mean, you've, you know, been involved in a lot of campaigns, can he come back at this point? I mean, he can't -- he doesn't seem to be a good debater, at least in the three debates, he says maybe he's going to change tactics in the next debate. He's going to - I think on this conference call that the reporting as he said, you know, he's going to interrupt more and try to, you know, I guess hope to get better questions but what do you make of his campaign?
BEGALA: I think he's through. Can he come back, of course he can. He can't rule anything out especially he is a talented guy. He just hides it well. He -- this is not my original thought. I wish I could take credit for it.
My friend Matthew Dowd who was a chief strategist for George W. Bush, Jeb's brother. He has this analogy about Jeb's money because a lot would say, well, Jeb has a lot of money that he keep in a race.
Matthew said to me, you know, when you got tons of money like that, it's like having extra oxygen tanks on Mount Everest but you got two broken legs. You live longer but you're not going anywhere. Man, I wish I had thought of that and Dowd was exactly right.
LORD: You know, if I...
COOPER: Correct. Go ahead.
LORD: ... I have to say I think Paul is absolutely correct. As a matter of fact, I have a column coming out "The American Spectator" tomorrow in which I quote Paul as saying -- I believe I heard him say earlier in the day that Jeb is toast and I agree. I mean, I just think that this was doomed from the beginning in terms of its establishment connections and the only people who were stunned that it was doomed are the people who were there inside of the Bush campaign.
COOPER: Are you allowed to quote Paul favorably in "The American Spectator"?
LORD: Well, we'll see, will we?
COOPER: That will be edited...
LORD: Man, you'll know what happen.
COOPER: ... that will be edited out. But Jeff, I mean, what is a must win state for Donald Trump? It can't be Iowa. Is it New Hampshire? Is it South Carolina? Can he afford not to win either in Iowa and New Hampshire? LORD: I think it will go beyond that. I mean, I do look back to the Reagan, Bush showdown in 1980 in which Reagan lost Iowa, won New Hampshire and South Carolina but then did lose on occasion on the way. That race went all the way until May when George H.W. Bush finally yielded but he won Pennsylvania. I think he may have even won Michigan along the way. So I do expect that this could be a very long and prolonged, you know, prolonged battle here for this.
COOPER: All right. Well, it's going fascinating. It already is. Jeffrey Lord, thank you, Paul Begala as well.
Just ahead, a new look, remember that deadly biker brawl in Waco, Texas? Well, this video shows the chaos inside the restaurant as a gunfight erupted in the parking lot outside.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:36:55]
COOPER: Tonight, dramatic new video of that deadly brawl in Waco, Texas that ended with nine bikers dead. Hundreds of weapons were recovered from the scene, 177 members of two rival biker clubs were arrested. More than five months later, you might be surprised to hear that no one is actually been charged in the nine deaths.
Tonight that we're getting a first look at surveillance video showing exactly what was happening inside the restaurant as the violence broke out. Ed Lavandera reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESSPONDENT: The showdown was like the gunfight at the O.K. Corral, that's how a witness describes the biker massacre to investigators. You don't have to hear the eruption of gunfire to feel the chaos the moment rival motorcycle clubs unleash a deadly melee.
These videos take you inside the Twin Peaks Restaurant in Waco, Texas where nine bikers were killed and the parking lot was turned into a raging war zone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my god, this is crazy.
LAVANDERA: CNN has obtained more than 2,000 pages of documents, crime scene photos, many too graphic to show and surveillance video giving us the most detailed accounts of what unfolded last May.
Some of the very evidence that a Texas grand jury is using to possibly indict the 177 bikers arrested and charged with organized criminal activity. Restaurant surveillance cameras show the patio area filled with members of the Cossacks Club waiting for an early afternoon biker meeting to start. They had already been there for more than an hour.
The Bandido Crew rolls in as police and swat teams and anticipating violence are watching from a distance. John Wilson is president of the Cossacks Biker Club Chapter in Waco. He is sitting on the patio when the Bandidos arrived.
JOHN WILSON, COSSACKS BIKER: The lead guy on that, you know, I looked out. I was watching and he deliberately steered into one of our prospects and hit him. You know, I mean, he wasn't going real fast but he deliberately ran into him with a motorcycle, enough to, you know, knock him down.
LAVANDERA: The man Wilson is talking about is Clifford Pierce. He refused our interviewer request and has not been charge but in a police report, an investigator wrote Pierce said he did not get his foot run over but may not have gotten out of the way fast enough. It didn't matter.
The Cossacks believe the Bandido ran into one of their guys and the fight was on.
Who fired first isn't clear. One witness told police a Bandito fired the first shot into a ground. Another witness says a Cossack fired first. And in dozens of police interviews, the rival biker clubs point the finger at each other or claim they didn't see anything.
Clifford Pierce says he hit the dirt and was shot. A bullet hits his spine leaving Pierce paralyzed from the waist down.
WILSON: At that time it was pretty horrific. There were guys getting hit and falling and I realized that I needed to get away from where I was and I looked at the guy to my right -- to my left, a good friend of mine and I told him, I said we got to get off the sidewalk or we're going to die here, you know.
LAVANDERA: Mayhem in suits, a biker running across the patio fires a gunshot caught on camera toward the fight scene in the parking lot.
[21:40:06 He then stashes the gun. A number of Cossack bikers take cover, some slide a handgun across the ground to each other. Restaurant patrons and Twin Peaks waitresses are stunned and trapped.
The scene plays out in gory detail, you can see a group of bikers pummeling one man just outside the patio area. Crime scene photos later show a biker's body left dead in that exact spot. This biker runs toward the camera with a bloody face.
Another group pulls a wounded man into the patio and they appear to be trying to revive him. He's then carried away. Several defense attorneys tell CNN the video showed that most of the bikers there that day were innocent bystanders.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: You're all going to put us in jail?
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Yeah. Everybody's going to jail.
STEPHEN STUBBS, FORMER BANDIDO ATTORNEY: The way they handled it with just the mass incarceration of people with million dollar bonds, flies in the face of justice and flies in the face of fairness. It's ridiculous. LAVANDERA: After it was all over, the scene was chaos. Dozens of bikers had run inside the restaurant to hide in bathrooms and the twin peaks kitchen. Police swat teams move in to round up the crowd. They are escorted out with hands up. Weapons litter the crime scene, knives, brass knuckles and more than 150 firearms everywhere, some even hidden in toilets.
It's been more than five months since the twin peaks brawl and all of the mike bikers are out of jail on bond. They were all charged with engaging and organized criminal activity. But not one of them has been indicted by a grand jury yet and no one has been charged with murder. In fact, it's still not clear who killed whom.
One police report says at least three officers fired into the crowd and one officer wrote he heard, suppressed fire from what I believe to be SWAT officers with suppressed riffles. Several defense attorneys say it's likely some bikers were hit by police bullets but as far as we know, ballistics reports have not been completed to determine that conclusively. Police and prosecutors have refused to answer questions about the investigation citing a gag order but Waco police have defended their actions since the beginning.
PATRICK SWANTON, WACO POLICE: This is a criminal element that came in here yesterday and killed people. They're not here to drink beer and eat barbecue. They came with violence in mind and were ready for it.
LAVANDERA: These images of the Twin Peaks brawl tell the story of a brutal and pandemonium.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now these bikers started shooting. They put us in a freezer.
LAVANDERA: It was a Wild West style shootout in broad daylight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Just incredible to see it like that. Ed joins us from Waco.
So what stood out to you in the evidence that's come out about this brawl?
LAVANDERA: You know, what really stood out was and remembers all of these bikers charged with a criminal charge of participating in organized criminal activity. They was interesting in reading all the police reports from get-go, many police focusing their questions on what motivated each of the bikers that they were interviewing for being there at the Twin Peaks Restaurant last May, really getting into the motivations.
The bikers have said they were simply there for a meeting -- preorganized meeting -- a biker club meeting and that's why they were there. Obviously police have said all along that they were there for various reasons. There was a history of fighting over the months leading up to the May shootout where the Cossacks and the Bandido's had gotten into violent altercations and because of that, police say they had intelligence that something bad was going to go down that day. So they have been really focused on the motivation for what brought them there to that Twin Peaks Restaurant.
COOPER: All right, and Lavandera I appreciate the reporting. Ed is answering viewer questions about this. Well, you can submit yours right now at facebook.com/ac360.
Up next is CNN exclusive, tough words for America top spy and Vladimir Putin's actions in Syria has met the American fighting ISIS in Syria. He's a volunteer former U.S. army specialist on the front lines.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:47:45]
COOPER: America's top spy blasting President Vladimir Putin for Russia's actions in Syria. The top message from James Clapper, Director of National Intelligence came in an exclusive interview with our Chief National Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto.
Jim, I understand you delve into the spiraling situation in Syria with Director Clapper. What did he have to say?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I did, you know, it's interesting. This is the nation's top spy. This guy has been in intelligence troop for 50 years. He said, his toughest job is seeing into the minds of foreign leaders trying to guess their plans and intentions. He says that's particularly difficult with Vladimir Putin because he has such a tiny circle that he pays attention to. He says he's in a decision bubble.
But what he does know about him -- this guy, he's good at reading people, he said that he is very impulsive, he's very opportunistic and then that relates to Syria, he says, he doesn't believe that he has a long-term plan there. This is how he laid it out to me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CLAPPER, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: We're expected to know that a decision has been made by a foreign head of state before he makes it. Putin's case in point. I think he's very impulsive, very opportunistic. It's a debate but I personally question whether he has some long-term strategy and I think his intervention into Syria is another manifestation of that.
Those things are hard to predict when there's a very -- in his case, a very small cluster of people around him unlike our president, he is not subjected to a steady stream of bad news. That's not a good thing for his intelligence services to do. So he's very much, I think, in a sort of a decision bubble and he makes these decisions on pretty much on his own.
SCIUTO: Do you think he has a plan for Syria?
CLAPPER: What his long-term plan is, I'm not sure he has one. I think he's kind of winging this day to day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Winging this day to day in Syria. I did ask him if the president, if he was blind sided by Russia's military action in Syria, Anderson. He says no, they saw that coming and warned the president.
SCIUTO: It's interesting to hear him describe Putin as somebody in this very, you know, tightly controlled bubble and actually doesn't get that, you know, bad information.
[21:50:06] That certainly makes it all the more difficult when dealing with him if the person you're dealing with is not necessary rational actors, not an actor not getting all the information or as much as the information might be available.
I understand Clapper also got into presidential politics with you.
SCIUTTO: He did a bit, you know, very deafly. I asked him about all of the comments in the debates and in the campaigns about big national security issues, including how to respond to Russia? How to get involved in Syria, China, et cetera?
And I said, "Are you -- is there any kind of comments that did worry you?" And he said, "Well, in his words, those comments are misinformed. And then he corrected himself and said, "No, they are uninformed." And said that, a lot of the candidates when they get into office, he says that their confidence will diminish very quickly. Anderson?
COOPER: All right, Jim, fascinating. Jim Sciutto, thanks so much.
That Syria and an exclusive look at an American volunteer on the battlefield. The former U.S. now wearing his own fatigues and taking aim at ISIS fighters. Our own Clarissa Ward caught up with the foreign fighter from Virginia at the training camp in Northern Syria.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Randy Roberts has spent much of the last seven months on the front lines. The former U.S. Army specialist who deployed twice to Iraq was studying graphic design in the U.S. when he decided to join the fight against ISIS.
RANDY ROBERTS, AMERICAN VOLUNTEER FIGHTING ISIS: I felt like I could -- given my past military experience, that I had been to this region before, that I could contribute and actually help the cause.
WARD: How did you get guidance as to how to get here, who to link up with?
ROBERTS: Well, Google.
WARD: Google?
ROBERTS: And it's the...
WARD: That's how you planned your trip to come and fight ISIS? ROBERTS: Believe it or not, yes. I simply looked up Westerners who had come over here before me.
WARD: Roberts is one of more than 100 Westerners who have come to Syria and Iraq to fight with Kurdish forces.
The internet is full of slickly produced WPG propaganda videos featuring American volunteers. There's even a website selling ISIS hunting kits and offering packing lists on what to bring. At a small training camp in Northern Syria, we watched some new recruits, among them, two Americans. Most did not want to show their faces. Unlike Roberts, few had any military experience.
ROBERTS: And you also meet a lot of people who think that this is going to be the gaming experience, call of duty because they understand how to pull the trigger on a controller that they know how to do it in real life.
Always elbows in and tight to your body.
WARD: Roberts believes the most valuable gift he can offer Kurdish fighters and his fellow volunteers is training.
ROBERTS: So when you need to reload, take a knee behind cover, mag out, stock in here.
WARD: While some Kurdish fighters welcome Western volunteers as a morale boost, others had dismissed their presence as a nuisance.
WARD: Do you believe you have helped?
ROBERTS: I believe, yes I have.
WARD: But some people would say this isn't your war. This isn't your business.
ROBERTS: It's better to stand up and do something if you think you can help than sit back and watch because hey, you know, it's on the other side of the world, not my problem.
WARD: Certainly the risks are real. One American, Keith Broomfield died fighting alongside Kurdish fighters this past summer in Syria and Roberts has seen for himself how tenacious enemy ISIS can be.
ROBERTS: Outside of the mind that they influence all in the field there to keep us from advancing on these villages. They also have little waddies and trenches that they hide in so, and pop up the machine gunfire.
WARD: Has it ever crossed your mind that you could get killed?
ROBERTS: Yeah. Yeah.
WARD: That's surprise you'd be willing to pay?
ROBERTS: Yes. If I got to the end of my life and I hadn't come and I looked back on this and I had chosen not to come out, then it would have bothered me. It would have bothered me for the rest of my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Clarissa, what's the U.S.' government position on these Americans who went to fight ISIS?
WARD: Well, technically, Anderson the U.S. government says that it's not illegal for Americans to go and fight against ISIS in Syria and Iraq as long as they are not fighting with a terrorist group. So, in this case, fighting with Kurdish YPG fighters would technically be legal.
At the same time, Anderson, given what has happened to other Americans captured by ISIS and the terrible, grisly fate that they ultimately met, U.S. government does really tried to actively discourage anyone from going out and trying to fight in these incredibly dangerous war zones.
COOPER: Clarissa, it's great to have you with us. Thanks for being with us tonight.
We just got into new video of the airliner on fire on the tarmac in Fort Lauderdale. Look at that? The latest on what happened when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:59:24]
COOPER: Before we go a bit more breaking news. We just got a new video at the Fort Lauderdale that shows just how intense the engine fire Boeing 767 on the tarmac, 101 people were board Dynamic International Airways Flight 405 to Caracas and see some of them using the emergency slide, 17 people were hurt in all. And one person badly burned we're told.
This happened at lunchtime. A pilot in the plane behind it reported seeing fluid leaking out of the left engine and it all erupted. The NTSB has a team of inspectors on this already Dynamic International's a small airline with limited roots and fairly old aircraft which we should point out it's not in itself is not a safety concern.
[22:00:00] We'll obviously be following this more throughout the evening as the events warrant it. Thank you for joining us. Coming up right now -- we'll be back actually at 11 P.M. Eastern "CNN Tonight" with Don Lemon starts now.
