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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Post-Debate Analysis. Aired 10:58p-12a ET
Aired March 09, 2016 - 22:58 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:58:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And good evening again from Miami Dade College where Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders have just wrapped up another face-off tonight. Some say Sunday's CNN debate in Flint really framed last night's shocker of a Sanders upset in Michigan.
The question now, how will the event tonight shape their battle for Florida, Illinois, and Ohio, three very brig primaries just six days from now. So, Hillary Clinton keeps piling up delegates for the big win last in Mississippi, he in Michigan, scored to one of the biggest surprise victories in modern memory.
Expectations for him rising, pressure on her no doubt growing. Now if you're thinking this is turning to a whole new race, well, stay tuned. A
And let's get started with some quick first impressions from our panel members, joining me here chief national correspondent and Inside Politics anchor, John King, chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, and senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson. John, let's start with you, what did you hear tonight?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: She faced a series of very, very tough questions. Can you be trusted? Did you lie to the families of the Benghazi victims? What about your e-mail scandal, will you be indicted? Will you get out of the race if you're indicted, who gave you permission to set up the private server, and why haven't you release your transcript did you say something in those Wall Street speeches that you're not willing to say in person?
COOPER: All questions she has faced before many times and answered but all once on the stage, probably unexpected perhaps for her.
KING: At once in a very tough and aggressive way. All fair questions and all questions throughout in the campaign.
But you could see I think that she thought that she was taking punches not only from Senator Sanders because pretty good challenge from the panel as well.
[23:00:10] It's a bit of a joke but it tells you, we're going to run for public office, do not hire Jorge Ramos's daughter. You know, he just close right upfront his daughter, worst than Hilary Clinton, and then he ask her a very tough question. It's very clear that he know some people out there are going to say he has a conflict. He was prepared to ask her some tough questions. Gloria?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I think she did get some tough questions. I think (inaudible) she seemed a little angry about it ...
COOPER: Annoyed ...
BORGER: I mean, annoyed, annoyed is really the word. But at the end of the debate, Bernie Sanders got hit with a video in which in the '80s ...
COOPER: I just want to acknowledge to our viewers what's going on. There's a lot of people who have been in the audience, who have gone up to the stage and they're yelling for Bernie, some are yelling for Hillary Clinton. That's the noise you're hearing so we apologize for any conflict if you're hearing it, hard to hear. But go ahead, Gloria.
BORGER: What a boisterous audience here tonight. I think that -- so he got hit with this video in which he was praising Castro and he didn't sort of respond really. Hillary Clinton shot right back at him and said, "You know, these are not the values that I want to see in this country. So she had a very good response on that. What struck me overall, though, is the Republican Party that's talking about mass deportation and you have two Democratic candidates up there tonight who said, "No deportation". No deportation of children or illegal immigrants who have not committed any crimes.
COOPER: Right. No deportation of anybody who isn't a terrorist, doesn't committed a crime or wants to do harm with United States.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then that's in some ways, is them taking something of a shot at President Obama, who to many in the Latino communities across the country have a nickname, which is deporter-in- chief. So you saw Sanders trying to get them (inaudible), there also Hillary Clinton. I thought Sanders, this is sort of the first time he's come into a debate where he has really pulled off an upset in Michigan. And I thought he had a kind of swagger tonight, I thought.
And I think he was smart to really try to target Latino voters and Latino young voters. He talked about youth unemployment. On that question, you know, what can you do to help Hispanics right now? He was much more specific. I thought Hillary Clinton was a little more broad. The interviewer had to come back and say, "What would you did about Hispanics?" and Hillary Clinton had to say, "Well, everything I just said was about Hispanic.
So, I think Sander's ability, I think to just voicing down to the very simplest tone that people hearing his message are really benefited him tonight.
COOPER: He also used humor against her in talk about her Wall Street speeches in a way that some ago which he's used before saying how great the speeches must have been. They must be so great, she must want to share them with the rest of us. But I think he kind of used it for -- it's really for this crowd more effectively than he had in the past.
KING: A sarcastic humors, want to say, that has to be such a great speech, wouldn't you want us all to read it with sort of the underlying message is, they are giving all these money. They paid you personally for these speeches, now they're giving your super PAC all this money. Come on. You have to be under their influence.
We're not saying you're being bought, but saying that this is (inaudible) about politics. You know, that this people, they are not giving you all this money, you know, just of winks or nod as well. Given to you for something (ph).
Consider the moment in American politics. In Republican Party, Donald Trump who most conservatives don't view as a Republican or certainly not as a consistent longstanding Republican, has a number of positions. You asked him about the interview today on trade and other issues that are way outside Republican orthodoxy, he's the front runner.
Here, you have a very credible candidate in Bernie Sanders who is still behind her. The delegate math is still in Secretary Clinton's favor. But he is credible candidate for the Democratic Party nomination. We just saw a video of him when he was socialist mayor of Burlington, Vermont praising Fidel Castro and Daniel Ortega, who lead the Sandinista at that time, and unapologetic throughout the debate. I'll raise taxes on the rich. I'll raise taxes on Wall Street speculators. I'll raise taxes on the energy industry. I will have single payer health care and free state and community college, a very liberal agenda that was just simply out of bounds, eight or ten years ago in American politics.
BORGER: You know, on the speech issue and Wall Street issue, which is very resonant with Democratic voters in particular. She was saying, "Look at my record. I have never been -- I intimidate Wall Street." And his response was, "Really, you intimidate Wall Street? Well, then, why they are given you $15 million? That's how much you intimidate Wall Street."
So he was very eager to continue as he started with your debate, continue to attack her because he sees a little bit of momentum. And you could just see, I don't -- people don't like each other.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: ... that she thought she would be at this point in the race, still on the stage arguing with Bernie Sanders over these issues having just lost the state of Michigan?
BORGER: Oh, no.
[23:05:04] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, I think this is all a surprise to her that she lost Michigan, that he's still in this race, that he's able to raise so much money with so little effort online. And that's the thing that's going to extend this. So I think it's a complete surprise to her and you can sort of see her trying to figure out and it's Hillary 2.0 and Hillary 3.0 adjusting to Bernie Sanders as he goes along.
BORGER: On the trust question which was asked directly and indirectly, I think many times this evening, she said it was painful to hear that. And you can see how she is trying to figure out a way to answer that question of why so many Democrats don't trust her.
COOPER: She also used a line which she acts, I think kind of first used in our Democratic town hall, I can't remember which one it was, where she said that this doesn't come naturally for me. My husband's a natural politician. The town hall was the first time I think she'd ever, that I know, that she ever used that line. She brought it back tonight which, you know, to her supporters I think probably personalizes her and humanizes her.
BORGER: Right. And there -- that maybe the best way to answer that question because what is she supposed to say, you know, "I have a public record of decades in public service and you don't trust me. And I don't feel like I've done anything to deserve it. So it's hurtful and I guess I'm just not very good at explaining who I am". Right?
COOPER: Let's play that sound where she talks sort of on a personal sense and mentioned her husband.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am not a natural politician in case you haven't noticed like my husband or President Obama. So I have a view that I just have to do the best I can, get the results I can, make a difference in people's lives and hope that people see that I'm fighting for them and that I can improve conditions economically and other ways that will benefit them and their families.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: I spent a lot of my youth, I'll call it, years ago covering Bill Clinton, when Hillary Clinton was the first lady of Arkansas until she became the first lady of the United States.
Number one, she was more relaxed around everybody in those days. All the investigations have hardened her and made her as a good friend of mine once said, you know, she doesn't know the difference between a question and an attack. I think that might be an overstatement but she's fairly much more defensive than she's used to be.
But Bill Clinton, infuriated Republican in Arkansas for a decades and infuriated on the national stage Republican, you know, for the eight years he was president. Because he always had a way when you attacked him or gave him a tough question, he had this, "Oh, shucks, wait (ph), oh, you're trying to attack me this election about the voters". And he could turn it on a dime, in a very, you know, emphatic way and she doesn't have those gifts. She has many, many strengths as political leader and, you know, Republican out there saying, "There he goes, praising Hillary Clinton. That's sort of Republican candidates.
And she has a very long list of strengths and she's clearly intelligence when -- but she doesn't have that visceral political sense that her husband strength the best of his generation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. And I think one of the things she's saying is, "Listen, I might not be the person who can dazzle a crowd like Barack Obama or Bernie Sanders in some ways, or Bill Clinton, but I'm going to work hard. I'm a work horse not a show horse".
And, you know, in that's kind of her entire message (inaudible).
BORGER: Saying I'm not a natural politician is, I think, Hillary Clinton's way of saying, "I'm authentic NCQA this is really who I am. It's just a different way of saying it.
COOPER: I want to bring in our commentators, Maria Cardona is joining us, also Jeffrey Lloyd is joining us, Donna Brazile is here as well and Van Jones. Maria is a Democratic Strategies and 2008 Senior Clinton Campaign Advisor. Jeffrey is a Trump supported and former Reagan White House Political Director, Donna, is a top Democratic Party Official and Van is a former Senior Advisor to President Obama.
Donna, let's start with you, your thoughts on what you heard on the stage.
DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, within -- I think the first 20 minutes, Karen Tumulty, a wonderful journalist. She posed a question that I think a lot of Americans want to know. And she said, "Is Donald Trump a racist?" No. Secretary Clinton said, "Basically, you can draw your own conclusion." But she went on to talk about the un-American things that he has said and how it's divisive and his tone. But she also pointed out that she was one of the first politicians to call him on his comments about Mexicans and others.
The reason why I think that's relevant is because on the Republican side you have a lot of turmoil right now. And I think part of the reason is because Donald Trump hesitated on the second try or third try to denounce the Ku Klux Klan and David Duke, just associate himself.
So I thought that was very important question. I though Secretary Clinton handed herself very well. She had a lot of tough questions.
COOPER: Let's play that moment for our viewers so that they know what you're referring to. Let's play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREN TUMULTY, JOURNALIST: Secretary Clinton, you've known Donald Trump for a long time. You've seen what kind of campaign he's running.
[23:10:01] Secretary Clinton, is Donald Trump a racist?
CLINTON: You know, Karen, I'm going to follow my friend Senator Sanders' model here. If I am so fortunate to be the Democratic nominee, there will be a lot of time to talk about him. I was the first one to call him out. I called him out when he was calling Mexicans rapists, when he was engaging in rhetoric that I found deeply offensive. I said "basta". And I am pleased that others are also joining in making clear that his rhetoric, his demagoguery, his trafficking in prejudice and paranoia has no place in our political system, especially from somebody running for president who couldn't decide whether or not to disavow to Ku Klux Klan and David Duke.
So people can draw their own conclusions about him, but I will just end by saying this. You don't make America great by getting rid of everything that made America great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It's interesting, Donna, because I think later on Bernie Sanders actually used the word racism to describe some of Donald Trump's rhetoric.
BRAZILE: Yes, he did. But again, I don't think the candidates tried to avoid a question that I think Donald Trump needs to be asked and I think he needs to answer. Clearly many of us across America have made up our own minds in terms of what we believe is going on. But it was an important question. I don't believe that they said yes or no. She said, "Draw your own conclusions". And I'm sure that's what's happen on the Republican side as well as the Democratic side.
COOPER: And Van Jones, what have you make of this? I mean, again, I come back to -- just to -- I mean who would have thought and I don't know that Hillary Clinton would have thought at the start of this race that she, at this stage of the race, would have been on the stage next to, you know, still arguing next to Bernie Sanders, a resurgent Bernie Sanders in Michigan.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think he certainly did not. In fact, I don't think he thought that tonight he would be standing there as a victor with the wind at his back in the way that he has.
Look, you got to look at both these two candidates. A lot of their strengths, their great strengths were on full display tonight, Hillary Clinton just at times displaying just a dazzling mastery of policy nuance. That clean energy question, that impacted a lot of progressive and concern, no abortion questions, no enough climate change questions, both of those on the table.
Hillary Clinton's response on the clean energy question, talking about resilience and how that could be a bipartisan issue and how she could use that, that was a tour de force. Bernie says, "You know, campaign finance reform political revolution." No comparison between the level of policy nuance and sophistication on a key issue for Democrats. At the same time, Bernie Sanders incredibly appealing, he's back of being the cuddly curmudgeon as opposed to the cutting curmudgeon from the last debate.
And, really, I think was able bring to a different audience of that same sensibility and energy. And you saw the response in the crowd. So I think both of them had very strong nights.
Hillary Clinton got punched, and punched, and punched, and punched. And, yeah, she was annoyed, anybody would have been annoyed. I think she handed herself very well under that much pressure.
The last thing I want to say about Bernie Sanders. One of the things about him that people loved, he is an unapologetic leftist. He did not back down, back in the 80s, there was a big chunk of the American left, very mad at Reagan for his military adventures in Latin America and who were opposed to the interventions. He did not back down from that. That makes him incredibly authentic. It also would be tough for him I believe in a general election.
And it is the first time you saw him have the opportunity to back away from those positions. He did not. It makes him authentic but it also shows the kind of trouble he would have in a general election.
COOPER: You know, let's actually play before we go continue on with the panel. Let's just play that his response to the question about Cuba.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SALINAS: In retrospect, have you ever regretted the characterizations of Daniel Ortega and Fidel Castro that you made in 1985?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT) DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The key issue here was whether the United States should go around overthrowing small Latin American countries. I think that that was a mistake ...
SALINAS: You didn't answer the question.
SANDERS: ... both in Nicaragua and Cuba.
Look, let's look at the facts here. Cuba is, of course, an authoritarian undemocratic country, and I hope very much as soon as possible it becomes a Democratic country. But on the other hand, it would be wrong not to state than in Cuba they have made some good advances in health care.
[23:15:04] They are sending doctors all over the world. They have made some progress in education.
CLINTON: I just want to add one thing to the question you were asking Senator Sanders. I think in that same interview, he praised what he called the revolution of values in Cuba and talked about how people were working for the common good, not for themselves.
I just couldn't disagree more. You know, if the values are that you oppress people, you disappear people, you imprison people, even kill people for expressing their opinions, for expressing freedom of speech, that is not the kind of revolution of values that I ever want to see anywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)\ COOPER: Maria Cardona, clearly something which in a general election is something which will stand Hillary Clinton in much better stead than probably Bernie Sanders' response.
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that's right. But I think even before we get to the general election, Anderson, let's think about where we are today. We're in Florida where Florida's Hispanic electorate, now the majority of the Hispanic electorate, has a lot of people that are coming from South America.
And so, this argument from Bernie and I agree with Van, you got to give him credit for being authentic and not backing down, that's who is. And he is unapologetic about. But my Twitter feed blew up from people who were form here, who come from those countries who have socialist, who have authoritarian regimes and the kind of language that Bernie uses when he talks about this, scares them.
So I don't think that it will just hurt him here in Florida where a lot of those people don't have on memories of those kinds of government that they actually fled and came here to get away from.
COOPER: Jeffrey Lord, as a non-Democrat here, as a Republican, what do you make ...
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Did you notice?
COOPER: ... of that answer, but also the deportation issue. I mean, it could not be a starker contrast through the Republicans have both candidates on the stage saying, "No more deportations of essentially any illegal immigrants who are currently here, adults or children as long as they are not criminals or terrorist, or people trying to do harm.
LORD: Well, first, I'd like to thank Secretary Clinton for defending President Reagan's policies in ending the Cold War, which did of course include opposition to the communist in Nicaragua, which was part of the entire policy and it worked. And stunned as I am, apparently Hillary Clinton has a Reaganite streak to her and I thank her for that.
In terms of deportations, to be perfectly canned it. This is going to be a huge issue here. I mean, we, as we all know, to use one example of any number of examples, Jamiel Shaw JR., an African-American, 17- year-old in Los Angeles, was shot to death by an illegal immigrant gangster, who shouldn't have been in the country in the first place. His parents are supporting Donald Trump.
There is every reason in the world for them to be angry about the state of the illegal immigration situation in this country. So this is going to be an issue. Donald Trump has raised it. He's propelled in. A lot of Americans are legitimately upset about it and we're going to be discussing this in the fall without question.
COOPER: Look, what is also interesting, John -- go ahead, Van.
JONES: You know, I just -- i think it's unfortunate, you know, there is, I think, going to be an attempt on the part of trump assuming he is the general election candidate for the Republicans to try to pit people against each other, to grab an African-American conservative family that's off for a tragedy and use that after American family as a battering ram against the entire immigrant community.
That kind of politics I think is unworthy of our country. Yes, there are many, many tragedies but when you use the death of a child as a political weapon against a whole community, it unfortunate, it's wrong. And I hope the African-American community will see this as what it is, something that's unacceptable and pushback.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Go ahead.
LORD: Well, I think that the Shaw family is very upset. They are the ones that have taken the initiative here.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: To Van's point is --
COOPER: Yeah. I'm sorry, we have a slight echo ...
BRAZILE: ... smear entire community simply, you know, it's horrific what happened to that young man. But you should not smear the entire community. And that's, I think, to Lord's view, that we have to get to where we have these contentious debates about immigration reform and border security.
[23:19:58] CARDONA: And you look at that, the huge contrast between what my friend, Jeffrey, just brought up and the stunning moment tonight, Anderson, when the question came from the woman whose husband was deported, the woman from Guatemala. That was a tear-jerking moment for anybody who has ever come into contact with the family who has had a family members deported.
That was a moment that I think just underscores the huge differences between where the Democrats are on this whole issue of deportation, undocumented immigrants making sure that they're able to be here if they don't haven't committed any criminal act to continue to try to live out their American dream and give them the pass as citizenship which is frankly where the majority of the American people are versus a Republican Party where one of the question is whether their frontrunner is a racist.
I think that says it all here.
LORD: Well, let me -- if I -- I mean, not to relitigate Van in my conversation, but I must say, I mean, this is what happens with Democrats on race.
I'm still waiting for Mrs. Clinton or any Democrats to get this Democratic Party formally on record apologizing for slavery. I mean we could start there and go on. So, you know, they want to get into that then we can get in to that too. BRAZILE: You know, we want to recall the founders about country and their failure to understand the humanity of our people, Jeffrey. We could get into that, but I'm sure there's a lot of issue. Then, so I back to get that litigated.
COOPER: Let's take a break here. We're going to take a short break. We're going to check in with the spin room. We're going to fact check the candidates and more as our debate coverage continues from Miami.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:26:21] COOPER: We're coming to you from the site of tonight's Univision Democratic Debate, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders seeking to Latino vote in a state where winning that vote matters enormously than in election where it matters enormously.
They also highlighted some of their broader trademark issues which in Bernie Sanders case's providing free college tuition in public universities and single parent health care for everyone. Tonight, Secretary Clinton pushed back on both. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: Senator Sanders has talked about free college for everybody. He's talked about universal single payer health care for everybody. And yet when you ask questions as many of us have and more importantly independent experts, it's very hard to get answers.
And a lot of the answers say that, you know, this is going to be much more expensive than anything Senator Sanders is admitting to. This is going to increase the federal government dramatically. And, you know, my dad used to say, "If it sounds too good to be true it's probably is". And we deserve answers about how these programs would actually work and how they would be paid for.
SANDERS: I want you all to think what Secretary Clinton is saying is that, the United States should continue to be the only major country on earth that doesn't guarantee health care to all of our people.
I think if the rest of the world can do it, we can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: A few moment in the debate, now comes to the post-debate maneuver. And Brianna Keilar is working the Clinton section of the spin room, she joins us now. What are hearing and seeing from the Secretary Clinton's people tonight?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, well, the word that they've come out into the spin room with, Anderson, is they think that she really landed punches when it came to making points about immigration reform and they put it revealing that, pardon me, Senator Sanders' positions now are different than what he had in the past.
A couple debates ago in Milwaukee there was actually a missed opportunity by Secretary Hillary Clinton to highlight Bernie Sanders support really with labor in voting against comprehensive immigration reform under the Bush administration, a bill that was authored by Senator Ted Kennedy, obviously, a liberal lion of the Senate.
Tonight, Hillary Clinton did not miss that opportunity really trying to show that Bernie Sanders was in opposition and that he wasn't aligned with immigration advocacy.
Other thing that they think may stick in this is that video that you saw where he was talking in positive terms about the Castro regimes in 1985. This is something that he has written about over the years in 1989. He actually went to Cuba, visited with the mayor of Havana.
He didn't denounce that video and they're highlighting that especially here in Florida, of course. But look, this is all happening in this after glow or which the opposite of that, I guess, you could say from this Michigan primary that just dealt her a stinging loss last night. And so because of that they admit, you know, they are pushing through at this point looking to next Tuesday.
Of course, they're looking to Florida but they really think she has an advantage here. They're looking to Ohio now.
You saw Hillary Clinton double down on that auto bailout argument that Bernie Sanders did not support the auto bailout argument. Some people thought that may have backfired. So that was an interesting point to see if that's going to hold as she pushes towards Ohio next Tuesday.
COOPER: Yeah. Certainly, the Sanders campaign pushback hard on that and saying essentially was kind of low blow for Hillary Clinton to bring up in the last debate.
Let's go to Jeff Zeleny covering the Sanders camp. Jeff, what do you hearing from them tonight?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the Sanders campaign came into this debate really, you know, on a wave of a momentum and so excited by what happened in Michigan. And they believe that Senator Sanders carried that through during the debate tonight.
[23:30:10] Now, it was different than a lot other debates. You can see the spin room now behind me, a lot of people are spinning. But the gist is this. They believe that Senator Sanders had a good opportunity, a good moment to present his case yet again. But the reality check of this next stage of the contest is all five states coming up are not created equally.
I just talked to Tad Devine, one of the senior strategists for the Sanders' campaign. He says. "Look, Florida is a closed primary that needs independence to not vote in the democratic primary." So, Senator Sanders is going to start advertising tomorrow. He's going to compete to try and win some delegates but they do not believe that Florida, you know, which has the most delegates and actually is the good terrain for them. But they do believe Illinois, Ohio, Missouri are good places for them to compete over the weekend and next week. But at the debate tonight, they believed that the auto industry bailout, they were actually surprised that Secretary Clinton continued that line of argument, continued that line of attack. It pointed to an editorial today in the New York Times saying that it was a dishonest line of attack. So watch for the potential of paid advertising on that.
They believed that, you know, it was just highlighting some questions of honesty about the Clinton campaign here. But overall, the Sanders' campaign believes that, you know, is happy that they had this debate because it gave their candidate one more chance, one more bit of oxygen here.
And the question really Anderson is, is this the last debate? It's the last scheduled debate, but if this contest keeps going on, is Senator Sanders going to call for other debates and what would the Clinton campaign do for that? That's one thing to look -- sort to keep our eye on here as this democratic contest continues through out March, and much likely in the April and perhaps even longer that. Anderson?
COOPER: Hey, Jeff, you know, we're very used to now seeing Republican candidates in the spin room after these debates. They all kind of make a bee line there trying to get as much coverage as they can. Does Secretary Clinton or Bernie Sanders go to the spin room after this debate?
ZELENY: In a word, no, they don't. And let me just turn around behind me here to make sure I'm not missing them. But they -- Secretary Clinton has not gone into the spin room at any of the seven democratic debates. Bernie Sanders used to actually.
I remember during one of the debates in Las Vegas, actually that you moderated, Bernie Sanders went in. It created such a mob scene. That's the last one he's ever done. So they do not come in here. They're top advisers do. But we do not see sort of a walk of victory like we see with Donald Trump after every single debate.
Hillary Clinton is never near our microphones like that and Bernie Sanders seldom is. So that's one of the many differences between the republican side and the democratic side of this campaign, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. I didn't want our viewers just to think we were avoiding talking to them. Jeff Zeleny, thanks very much.
Back with our panels who are joining us, is Alicia Menendez and Nando Vila, both of Univision System Network, Fusion. What did you think of the debate for of this event (ph)?
ALICIA MENENDEZ, FUSION: I thought it was a really exciting debate. You know, I've been studying the polling that was done on behalf of Univision and the Washington Post. And part of what they found is among Latinos who were democratic primary voters. Clinton tends to lead Sanders 2-1. Except in one area with young voters.
COOPER: Right. MENENDEZ: And so, tonight you really saw him leading into a lot of the messaging that is meant to cater to younger voters, talking about free public tuition for college, talking about a variety of issues, including health care that are very important as young voters. So, I thought that was not surprising but interesting.
COOPER: Nando?
NANDO VILA, FUSION: No, I thought it was pretty remarkable early on the debate when Jorge Ramos got both candidates to promise not to deport children and immigrants that don't have criminal background.
COOPER: Essentially, any ...
VILA: Any adult.
COOPER: and immigrants ...
VILA: Yeah.
COOPER: ... right, who are not -- have not committed a crime or not a terrorist.
VILA: Which is remarkable given the current administration's deportation policies which we deported 2.5 million people which is an astounding numbers, to huge breaking and sort of a Democratic -- from within Democratic politics.
COOPER: Right.
VILLA: Also astounding when you consider the reality of who is leading the Republican field, right? Like I did see some of the more conservative tweeters who I follow talking about the fact that perhaps tonight's debate was best for Donald Trump, right? That if you were trying to star up and made of his ring of the Republican Party than this in many ways, still (inaudible).
COOPER: Right. And the question is, you know, moving into a general election, if it's Senator Clinton or Bernie Sanders, how does that play once you're against to Republican candidate?
KING: We will find out, but there's no question and Trump is changing American politics. We'll see if he's the nominee and we'll see what it does. But there's no question a, it motivates the republican base, it was the issue that got Donald Trump started. He is moved on from that. It's debating Muslims that they're talking that terrain. And I think the economic stuff has helped Donald Trump grow. But there's no question build the wall which is launched in quite in the Republican race.
The Democrats now believe, though, that the demographics favor them. This is one of the states who did is the laboratory of that. This used to be a republican leaning state in presidential politics always competitive. But Republican leaning? Now people think in the presidential politics, it probably leans a little bit towards the Democrats, unless you have the growing diverse community. Mostly Latinos here in Florida, but some African-Americans and in other states, whether it's African-Americans or Latinos, Democrats increasingly believed the diversity and growing by the second diversity of the electorate helps them on these issues. But, we're not done yet. President Obama won on them twice. That doesn't mean it's locked in. We still have another debate as these issues before the battle is down.
ANDERSON: Yeah, Donna Brazile -- I mean, how do you think that plays in a general election? I mean, that pledge not to deport?
BRAZILE: Well, look, I do believe that that's a very important pledge given not just the demographics and the dynamics but I also think it's humane. I've seen and -- not just heard but seen families torn apart. It breaks my heart.
Anderson, you know, many of the people who came down at Louisiana after hurricane Katrina, some of them undocumented, but they broke their backs and necks and bones to try to help us rebuild. And many of their families got torn apart, put apart. So, I think it's the right thing to do. I think it's moral and I think it's in alignment with what the democrats believe in terms comprehensive immigration reform.
We are probably (inaudible) about this issue. But I support it and , I do believe that Nevada, Colorado, Florida, North Carolina and some of the others main states, I do believe that we can get a victory by standing (ph) on moral solid, moral ground as it relates to this issue.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Let me play the exchange. Actually when Senator Clinton was asked about how her policies are any different from Donald Trump in terms of building a wall because that she had voted for border fencing when she pointed out Bernie Sanders had as well. Let's play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the question is, what is the difference between the wall that you voted for and Donald Trump's wall?
CLINTON: It's a big difference. I mean, first of all, as I understand him, he's talking about a very tall wall. Right? A beautiful, tall wall. The most beautiful tall wall, better than the Great Wall of China, that would run the entire border, that he would somehow magically get the Mexican government to pay for. And, you know, it is just fantasy.
And in fact, if he cared to know anything about what members of Congress like the senator and I have done, where it was necessary we did support some fencing. Where it was necessary, we did add border patrol agents.
We have done, what by any fair estimate would have to conclude is a good job, "securing the border." So let's get about the business abuse of comprehensive immigration reform.
JONES: You cannot ...
COOPER: Maria -- I mean, I can see a -- or Van I can see a campaign commercial already being made up by Republicans where Secretary Clinton is saying that's just fantasy.
JONES: Yeah -- I mean listen, this is the biggest divide that you can have in politics. Right now you have Republicans saying deport 100 percent and Democrats saying deport 0 percent. And what you're seeing is the impact on the Democratic Party of its young base across the board.
The dreamers have pushed this issue to the point where it is now orthodoxy within the Democratic Party not to split up families. That wasn't true, just a few years ago. Black lives matter has pushed the issue of criminal justice, the Occupy Wall Street kids have pushed the issue of income inequality. The young base of this party is having a huge impact.
But if I were a Republican, if I were a conservative, watching the debate in Flint where you see the African-American influence on the party in stark relief, watching the debate tonight, we see the influence of the Latino community in such stark relief. You would have to conclude that there's a massive split in this country in terms of what's going on with the Republican versus what's going on with the democrats.
COOPER: Nando, I mean it is interesting this -- sorry, go ahead Maria.
CARDONA: In terms of, you know, you asked what is the difference between the wall that Secretary Clinton was talking about and the wall that Donald Trump talks about there's a huge symbolism here. And no one, I think, that really understands what Trump was talking about is ever going to confuse the wall that he wants to build with the sensible border alignment that Secretary Clinton and frankly, a lot of the Democrats voted for because that is just sensible border enforcement.
So, for the Latinos, when Trump talks about this wall, he's not just talking about a big, beautiful physical wall with a wonderful door that he talks about.
[23:35:00]
He is saying we don't want you. He is saying we don't want you to come into this country and he is saying if you're here without documents, we want you out. It's a very clear message to Latinos. And when you have an electorate that is as important as Latinos in the presidential where a Republican candidate cannot get to the White House with at least 42 percent of the Hispanic vote, Trump and any other Republican who might come out as the nominee is going to have a very tough time getting into La Casa Blanca.
JONES: That is, of course, not what he's saying. COOPER: The question is ...
JONES: He is saying ...
COOPER: Hold on, Van. Just hold on Van. The question is how many voters here have already made up their minds. I mean, you know, where any minds under -- do you guys think any minds were changed tonight?
VILA: Well, it's hard to say. You'll have to ask the voters. I mean, I do feel like for Bernie Sanders the 2007 vote against the immigration reform is kind of like his version of Hillary's Iraq vote in 2003 -- 2002. It just keeps coming back to hunt them especially with Latino leaders but there's 1,000 endorse to Hillary Clinton. It's a tough within for him to answer because he voted against it. That's just the way it is.
KING: But the speed of the transformation on this issue is striking because of the speed of the demographic changes in our country. I asked Secretary Clinton in that 2008 debate with Barack Obama standing next her about her support for the board defense where Ramos was sitting right next to me.
He was on her panel when we asked that question and she acknowledged that she voted for it and then she quickly said he did too. And she pointed at Senator Obama because she want to make sure everybody will do that. And then she said she would think about it. That she would think and reconsider her position. Maybe you didn't need as much of it. Maybe it was time to think about it.
Sanders, said, you know, immigrants fight down wages. He said that and he tried to, you know, explain it tonight. She said don't give undocumented driver's licenses.
The speed of the transformation in the Democratic Party on this issue is striking because they look at the change in demographics of the country including in this state which they need in presidential politics and they have moved.
MENENDEZ: I think part of it is a demographic shift but I also think part of it is the realization on the part of Democrats and Congress that their original strategy was that if they made concessions on the board, that if they made concessions when it came to militarization, they would in return in a pathway to citizenship but they would get some of the more progressive pieces of legislation.
And when they realized that Republicans weren't willing to come to the table and meet them halfway, they abandoned that as opposed to CIR.
COOPER: We're going to take another quick break with a much more with our panel coming. And also a separate back from fiction (ph) in terms of what the candidates said on the debate stage. Coming up, Tom Foreman has a reality check next.
[23:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: With every debate, the candidates throw out facts and figures. Sometimes the facts, sometimes, they figure they can get away with stretching the truth a little bit. Tom Foreman has been busy as always tonight with his political decodering (ph). He joins us now from Washington with the Reality Check. Tom?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey Anderson. One of the questions that many Republicans want to ask about is Hillary Clinton having e- mails, classified e-mails on this private e-mail server in her home. She says they were not classified at the time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: Some other parts of the government, we're not exactly sure who, has concluded that some of the e-mails should be now retroactively classified. They've just said the same thing to Former Secretary Colin Powell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: Well, just the same thing to Colin Powell. So, she said they were not classified at the time. Indeed the State Department has gone over this practice. They looked at Colin Powell's private e-mail account and yes, two of them were retroactively classified but he only used his account occasionally.
She used it exclusively for all of her communications. So how many of hers were classified retroactively? More than 2,000 of them including more than 20 at the top level of top secret. So, for her to suggest to her situation is just like Colin Powell, well technically it's true but it's absolutely misleading.
Bernie Sanders went after her with the issue of undocumented immigrants and drivers license as saying she has flip flopped on this. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: Secretary Clinton prevailed upon the governor of New York, Eliot Spitzer, who wanted to do the right thing and provide driver's license to those who were undocumented. She said "don't do it" and New York State still does not do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: The realization of flip flopper absolutely on this issue, she did waffle, a good bit in 2007 as she was launching her first Presidential bid. Ultimately, she did come down on the side of saying, "No, there should not be licenses for people who came into this country illegally."
She did lean on the former government of New York as he has said himself long with the lot of other people and to this day you cannot get a license if you're one of those folks in New York. So his accusation against her on this issue, that is true. And he's going after a numerous times over this question of Wall Street support saying that basically she is behold into Wall Street for all the big money she gets. She says, no.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I went to Wall Street before the great recession and basically called them out, said that their behavior was putting our economy at risk, called for a moratorium on foreclosures.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: So she says she's not beholden the Wall Street for its financial support of her campaign. We can't exactly say what's going to happen in the future. Nobody really knows that, but we do know that in 2007, yeah, she did warn of the subprime danger to the economy and she did call for a moratorium and the freeze on adjustable interest rates. So her claim about all of that is true.
If you want to find out more about how we reached these verdicts and all the many other things we checked from the debate tonight, got to cnn.com/realitycheck. Anderson?
COOPER: Tom, Tom Foreman, thanks very much. Let's talk about where the race goes from here. I mean, this continues. John.
KING: It goes to some pretty big contests next week. I think you'd have to say Hillary Clinton because of the demographics that's favored here in Florida. But the big -- look Bernie Sanders had a big win in Michigan last night.
[0:23:45]
You cannot -- it was a big upset. It was one of the upsets of the century. And he said, it's not enough to change the strategic orc (ph) of the race but it does government opening to do just that. And the next ...
COOPER: There's a restrictions about Ohio.
KING: The next step is Ohio in Illinois. If he can prove win one or both of those big Midwestern industrial (inaudible). He's from Illinois, by the way. He's has a lot of supporters in Illinois.
If he could win one or both of those, let's say Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, that makes a huge statement about economics. That's why in his opening statement, he came right out of the box, it's too late for establishment economics. We need something new. A, challenging her in economics and B, challenging her more broadly and the idea, you're a known brand.
Even though, he's been on the Senate for a long time and the House before that, you're a known brand unchanged. That is the case he's trying to make.
And next Tuesday, we're going to find out if Michigan was just a surprise or if it's a building block.
BORGER: And don't forget, Democrats are not winner-take-all like Republicans are. So Bernie Sanders can make advances and doesn't lose an entire state, like what happened with Republicans in Florida and Ohio. So, Ohio is their prime target of opportunity, they believe.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. And I think you got to look for what those younger minorities do. He's label and makes inroads in Michigan. He's done well with Latinos in Texas. I think he get 30 percent, did pretty well in Nevada, too.
And I think here, he was trying to do that same thing, where he connects with young Latinos in those states like in Ohio, African- Americans there, folks under 40s who are African-American. I think he certainly going to talk at them (ph) that good surrogates there in Ohio like Nina Turner.
COOPER: And Van Jones, you know -- I mean, until Michigan, there's no doubt Hillary Clinton was looking forward to turning toward a general election and looking forward to turning toward the Republicans. There's no -- she cannot do that now. Bernie Sanders is running hard, running strong and has deep pockets.
JONES: Yeah. And look the rebellion in both parties is real. I just think like over and over and over again, people have to be reminded or shocked into realizing there is a full scale rebellion in both parties. There was a knock on of Bernie Sanders that he could not expand into the black vote. He did that. He split young black voters in Michigan. There is no telling what's going to happen in Ohio or Illinois or elsewhere. So this is a real thing you guys take it seriously.
You know, the great thing about where she is right now, he wouldn't have to start winning like 60/40 in order to catch up with her. So it's not that she is in complete -- being complete panic, but this is a real phenomenon within both political parties. And Bernie Sanders is far from out.
COOPER: There -- I mean, there's no more debates scheduled. If you're Hillary Clinton, do you want more debates? Probably not.
BORGER: No, not with the question she was getting.
HENDERSON: Yeah, yeah
KING: And he's also getting better.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Right. He is getting better.
KING: She has more experience doing this. She's a more accomplished debater. She was done a practice attorney before that. It's not (inaudible) with Senator Sanders, she just has more experience doing it.
COOPER: And certainly ...
KING: But he is getting better. COOPER: ... this whole tonight ...
KING: Yeah.
COOPER: ... I mean, this crowd ...
KING: Yeah.
COOPER: ... they seemed to be Bernie Sanders.
HENDERSON: Yeah.
COOPER: And one more, seemed like one more over.
BORGER: Right. And also at a certain point you have to ask what this does to the Democratic Party as you had into an election, you don't want to so weaken. You're frontrunner. I mean, for tonight on immigration.
It was very clear that neither of these candidates has clean hands, right? Bernie Sanders voted against immigration reform in 2007. Hillary Clinton in her race for the presidency at the same time didn't want to give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.
Those are two very unpopular positions right now, particularly in this state, but the more you debate these issues, the more you open up holes for other, you know, people to mind at Donald Trump or somebody else could say, "Wait a minute, Bernie Sanders, you didn't vote for immigration reform, or Hillary Clinton, look at what you're talking about now, just a few years ago, you were on a different side of this."
HENDERSON: And I think also the more you debate and the longer these things goes on, the more tensions arise between these candidates because you do sort of see -- I mean, they -- you know, right, you're seeing that, yeah, you're seeing that and it spills over to the campaigns, it spills over to the supporters. At some point, they're going to all have to come together and sing Kumbaya and ...
(OFF-MIC)
HENDERSON: .... yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
KING: You make a very critical point, though in the sense that, you know, Bernie's right. The math was in Hillary Clinton's table right now. Bernie Sanders has a chance to change that if he can start winning but he has start winning some big states and he has to start winning by pretty healthy margins.
But as the race goes on, assume that Hillary Clinton is the nominee and I know Sanders' supporters don't like that or even if he's the nominee, they're going to need each other. But is she is the nominee, she's going to -- especially with the young voters and the new voters in his support among independents, she needs to manage relationship. Any nominee needs to manage relationship with their challenger. You even see Donald Trump starting to try to do it now. Manage his relationships better with the party. You can't bring people together unless you try that and you could see it in their eyes tonight. They're under each other's skin and then there's tension, because they understand the stakes (ph). You're at another moment in that campaign where Bernie Sanders has an open (ph).
[23:50:00]
COOPER: We've got to -- we're got to take a break. Very quick, Van.
JONES: This is really quickly. I think that one of the things that Hillary Clinton did tonight that probably doesn't set well, trying to pretend that Bernie Sanders supports minutemen malicious, but he does stuff like that. I don't think it help with relationship.
COOPER: Yeah. I want to thank you everybody. Reminder, CNN's going to host the GOP presidential debate. That's tomorrow night not far from here at the University of Miami. That's at 8:30 p.m. Eastern. We'll be on at 8:00. Of course, Jake Tapper is the moderator.
Up next, an encore presentation of tonight's debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:55:00]
