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U.S. Officials: Early Theory Is Bomb Downed Plane; Missing Plane Vanished Over Mediterranean Sea; Clinton: Trump Not Qualified To Be President. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired May 19, 2016 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:01:44] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, John Berman here in for Anderson tonight.

The search for wreckage and answers in the disappearance of EgyptAir flight 804, that in the working theory that officials in Egypt, this country and elsewhere now have about what brought it down.

Their early assessment -- and we should point out that it's just that. An early first take and this was likely an active terrorism, 66 men, women and children were on the flight from Paris to Cairo in the early hours of the morning over the Eastern Mediterranean.

Look, all the angles in the hour ahead, starting with CNN, Justice Reporter Evan Perez. Evan, you've been on the phone all day and into the night and the latest on the investigation. What are you learning at this hour?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, John even at this hour we know that officials here in Washington are working -- focusing on the flight manifest of this aircraft. They want to know everything they can about the people who are on board this plane that includes their 56 passengers and the 10 crew members and 3 security members and the pilots.

Obviously, nothing had been ruled out at this point, there still could be signs of a mechanical failure. They haven't recovered the wreckage and certainly they haven't recovered the black boxes which could supply a lot of information, a lot of data on what happened, especially in the last few moments of this flight.

But one of the things that that is missing is one reason why officials were focusing on this initial theory of a terrorist attack and that is the fact that there was no May Day. This is a sophisticated aircraft that has redundant systems that would give them time, if there was something going wrong with the aircraft to try to get out some kind of distress call and nothing like that happened.

If there was even an attempt to do a hijacking, there were, three security officials on board, and we know that they would likely and had time to issue some kind of distress call. These are reasons why officials are focusing on something happening on the plane, something terrorist related, and again focusing first on who's on the plane and anybody else who might have had access to this aircraft at Charles de Gaulle Airport before it took off.

BERMAN: Speaking of Charles de Gaulle Airport and I understand, security has been tightened in both Paris and Egypt?

PEREZ: That's right. There has been some tightening of security in France and in Egypt and because of the recent incidents obviously. And last year we had a terrorist attack in Sharm el-Sheikh or a terrorist attack that brought down a Russian airliner.

And in light of what has happened in Brussels and Paris in the last few months, John, there's been a tightening of standards. We know that the French have recently let go a number of workers at Charles de Gaulle and as other airports OLI for instance because they found signs that these people were affiliated with or had links to extremists that something that is very much in the mind of U.S. officials and French officials. They know that this is a summer in which they're going to keep an eye on possibility of ISIS and other terrorist groups trying to carry out attacks in Western Europe.

BERMAN: And Evan, and you mentioned something. We've been hearing all day, that there were three security officials or personnel on board this flight. A four hour flight which is 66 people on board, three security officials, that seems like an awful lot. Any word, why?

PEREZ: Well, we are told that this is actually quite standard, and especially for Egyptian carriers and other carriers in the Middle East, they're very much concerned about the security picture there, John.

[21:05:02] And even though this is a flight originating in Western Europe, they make sure that there are -- what their equivalent of air marshals on board this flight. Again, that is something that we're going to look into the -- the authorities are looking into who these people are whether there's any reason to be concerned at all.

BERMAN: All right. Evan Perez thanks so much. Great reporting, I appreciate your time.

Joining us now, CNN, National Security Analyst, Juliette Kayyem, the former U.S. Assistant Secretary for Homeland Security. CNN Aviation Correspondent, Richard Quest. Underwater Search Specialist, David Gallo, who spearheaded the hunt for Air France flight 447 and CNN aviation analyst Les Abend who working airline and captain and "Flying Magazine" contributing editor.

Juliette, I want to start with you because that's we've been saying, you know, we have no concrete answers right now but that doesn't mean there aren't some limiting factors here. You say there really are very few explanations but why a plane like this in airbus April 20 would fall out of the sky from 37,000 feet. JULIETTE KAYYEM, FORMER ASST. SECRETARY HOMELAND SECURITY: Right so the theories that we are going to go with that's a limited number of theories as mechanical failure, pilot error or -- and then the third is some deliberate action, right and so we can call it terrorism whatever but some deliberate action.

We don't know if that was a passenger, we don't know if it was luggage, we don't know if it was something else but there's something catastrophically brought this plane down.

Then over the course of this day, there are pieces of evidence to suggest that this last theory is the working one. That's what the United States is saying, it's the working theory. The reason why, is there's no SOS, there was not bad weather going on, the flight tipping and moving around at the very end. All of it suggests that the pilots were out of control for reasons that are not explained by any other theory.

But the reason why I'm not there yet is simply first one no one had taken credit for it and we might anticipate that they would have relatively quickly and at least as being reported by some news organization like "Reuters", there is no evidence of an explosion in the air by, you know, we haven't sort of geospatial monitoring.

So those are two things I would expect in a terrorism incident so I just, you know, to your viewers, there's a lot of evidence coming out, there's limited number of theories, and we're leaning towards one and for the reasons I just stated.

BERMAN: Les Abend, Juliette brought up the no SOS, the no May Day called from the pilot is something that Evan Perez brought up as well. Why or why not might that be significant?

LES ABEND, 777 CAPTAIN: Well, I've said very often that we're in trained in three very basic things and we've all heard this before. Pilots aviate, navigate and then we communicate. If I'm working on the serious problem, there's only two of us up there, and three (inaudible) is in the cockpit that are going to be able to handle that situation.

The folks on the ground will assist us but we're the ones that are going to take care of the problem, so I may not have time to say, hey, I've got a problem, and nor do I know what the problem is if I have to assess it, if it's something abnormal that's not in my checklist I'm going through it to try to evaluate it so I can communicate that I have some sort of problem. So was there and maybe another possibility that the radios didn't function, they tried to get out a call? And so, you know, it's hard to say.

BERMAN: Richard, there was a gap in communication right of at least 40 minutes. They communicated the ground did, with the air about 40 minutes before the plain went down over Greek airspace. Everything was fine, the pilot seems happy, and then there was a long time before they checked in with them again. Why is that gap significant?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: It is significant in the sense that nothing is happening with the flight, it's continuing its altitude of around 37,000 feet, the speed marginally increases, but not dramatically.

So we don't know from the last check-in to when they try to call the aircraft again, we don't know in that window of 30 minutes whether everything is normal or something has gone wrong, but we can pinpoint when they do then try to check in 28, 29 minutes past, they don't get a reply, the plane flies on into Egyptian airspace and then we have the so-called swerve or we have this -- and the sharp descent.

Now, this is important because it pins down times when you know everything is OK, when you know there could be a problem, and when you know there are definitely is a problem. But of course, I mean, you know, so much for being clever on the timeline, it doesn't tell you what the problem actually is.

And I think though because the plane continues to fly and there's no indication of anything wrong, you are looking at around somewhere in that 30 minute gap for the incident to have taken place.

BERMAN: Introduce you for those of us who don't understand this, 30 minutes is actually a long time or a brief time in terms of an unknown period when you're dealing with an air disaster.

[21:10:07] QUEST: Oh, no wait a minute, the plane is on course during all of this and the, you know, that the pilots have given that check- in they were and truly into the radar coverage. It's over the Mediterranean, and so, the next call would be from the next air traffic controller to say contact Egypt control on whatever frequency. So everything is normal from that check-in and everything, OK, so when the next call would be, now contact Egypt air traffic control. And it is somewhere in that parameter where whatever happened is taking place.

Now, is it a struggle? Unlikely at the moment. Is it a bomb? Probably not because at that point the plane is flying normally. Is it mechanical and they are becoming overwhelmed? Again, we do not see anything changing in the flight profile of the radar until the plane crosses into Egyptian air space.

I'll be honest with you here, John, we are looking at you know, a conundrum of circumstances that does not lead itself at this point to easy options.

BERMAN: Which is why the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder are so vital to locate. Which David Gallo, is your area of expertise and today there was word from Egyptian officials, officials mind you, that debris had been sighted in the Mediterranean so and free to turned out not to be the case. Again, why does a mistake like that happen? How frustrating is it for people like you involved with the search and how do you get it right tomorrow?

DAVID GALLO, CO-LED SEARCH FOR AIR FRANCE FLIGHT 447: It's incredibly frustrating but more importantly, if it's horrific for the families and loved ones and the victims of the flight to go through this. You know, and shades again of Malaysian Air that you wake up one morning with a certain set of facts or go to bed at night with a certain of different facts, wake up the next morning and there all different and, you know, it's horrible. It's a horrible of way to treat bits of information. But they do need to get it right and, you know, it's just the appalling that here we, some nine years after Air France 447 went into the South Atlantic Ocean and still were not streaming data. We still have to go through an almost medieval test of finding two button recorders of bringing the backup to the surface. It's just nuts.

BERMAN: All right guys. Thanks so much, stick around.

Just head, the upheaval here in the middle of a presidential campaign already has terrorism as a central focus. What Donald Trump said and what Hillary Clinton couldn't told "New Day" Chris Cuomo and their exclusive conversation. That's next.

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[21:16:25] BERMAN: Whatever brought down EgyptAir flight 804 and all of certainly took 66 lives, happened in a climate of global terrorism as well as it gets the backdrop of a U.S. presidential campaign.

Today both leading candidates weighed in. Hillary Clinton speaking out during her exclusive conversation with "New Day's" Chris Cuomo, we showed you been that last hour. But now we really want to give you some time. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN NEW DAY ANCHOR: Secretary Clinton, it's good to have you as always.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you. Welcome to my hometown, Chris.

CUOMO: Thank you very much. This is very warm reception here. And you've come home. And yet the problems of the world are upon us.

CLINTON: That's true.

CUOMO: Once again we see in the headline this morning, EgyptAir, they're now finding debris in Greek waters, the Greek authorities, the Egyptian authorities all saying that they believe this was terror as much anything else.

But not there investigative yet , but if that's the theory. It is a reminder to people not just the loss of these families but somehow the loss in the battle against terror, what is your message and what do you believe the response should be to make something like this less likely?

CLINTON: Well, Chris, it does appear that it was an act of terrorism exactly how, of course the investigation will have to determine. But it -- once again shines a very bright light on the threats that we face from organized terror groups, ISIS of course but then there are other networks of terrorists that have to be hunted down and defeated. And I think it reinforces the need for American leadership, for the kind of smart, steady leadership that only America can provide working with our allies, our partners, our friends in Europe, the Middle East and elsewhere because we have to have a concerted effort that brings to bear both domestic resources, sharing of intelligence, take a hard look at airport security one more time whatever needs to be done must be done. World depends upon air travel. We can't allow it to be interrupted or people be intimidated and to continue to take the fight although it needs to be even more intensified against ISIS from where it is running its operations in Syria and Iraq.

So we have to really go along with the kind of plan that I've been outlining for months which is we're going to will defeat them on the ground using our air power equipping and training and supporting Arab and Kurdish fighters. We're going to drive them out of Iraq, drive them out of their strong hold in Raqqa, Syria.

We are going to intensify cooperation among those nations that have a direct stake which I would argue is just about every nation right now, but principally European, Arab, Middle Eastern. We're going to take them on online, and we're going to intensify our intelligence and law enforcement cooperation.

CUOMO: How do you fight the perception that we look weak? Trump this morning was out hot and early on Twitter when this happened saying, looks like another act of terror. More proof that we're weak. We have to be strong. There's a lot of hate and anger out there.

He is channeling the perception that a situation like these fuels which is we are weak. They can take our planes when they want. The Russians, the Chinese, they can scare our military when they want and America does nothing. How do you answer that?

CLINTON: Well, first of all he says a lot of things, he says a lot of things that are provocative that actually make the important task of building this coalition, bringing everybody to the table and defeating terrorism more difficult.

CUOMO: Why?

[21:19:58] CLINTON: Well, for example, when he says barred all Muslims from coming to the United States. That sends a signal to majority Muslim nations many of whom we have to work with in order to defeat terrorism, some of whom are already among our strongest allies in this fight. It sends a message of disrespect and it sends a message that makes the situation inside those countries more difficult for them to go all in the way we need them to go all in.

CUOMO: And to the Americans that message resonates with where they say, well, these attackers always do seem to be Muslim and they're coming in here, and call me who's in charge of vetting them says he can't vet them. Trump calls for a temporary ban. It seems to make sense to people. Does it make sense to you?

CLINTON: No, not at all. I mean, let's remember what he's called for and to sort of break it up. He had said all Muslims should be barred from coming in to the United States, all Muslims. Nobel Prize winners, entertainers, sports stars, you name it, the new mayor from London, all Muslims should be barred.

Now, when confronted with the new mayor from London who as, you know, was the first Muslim elected to be mayor of London by the people of London, he says, well, I'll make an exception for him. I mean, the whole approach is just incredibly provocative and wrong headed.

And look what he has done just in the last week. He has attacked our closes ally, Great Britain. He has praised the reckless dictator in North Korea, he has said we should pull out of NATO our strongest military alliance. He has advocated for more countries having nuclear weapons.

That kinds of unpredictable dangerous rhetoric and the policies that he throws out there for whatever hope he has to get people the respond to him. Make us less likely that we're going to be as effective as we need to be going forward in a swaging the concerns of people that we want to be working with us to deal with the threat.

And, you know, we have been effective in beginning to kill off the leadership of ISIS, to go after their funding sources, to make it very clear that we're going to keep training the Iraqi army, they've taken back Ramadi,. We're going to be supporting them to take back every other parts of the territory, most importantly Mosul that ISIS has seized.

So we are making progress. Our biggest concern and I think if this turns out to be an act of terror with a flight coming from Paris, our biggest concern is what's going on in Europe and that is something that we do have to address and deal with, with all our partners and that's going to require even closer cooperation.

CUOMO: Let me ask you, do you think that Donald Trump is qualified to be president?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Hear Secretary Clinton's answer to that next. As an answer she had not given before.

Also ahead, why she says Trump's message to the Muslim world is playing right into the hands of terrorists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: We have seen how Donald Trump is being used to essentially be a recruiter for more people to join the cause of terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[21:27:01] BERMAN: More now on Chris Cuomo's exclusive interview with Hillary Clinton. In this part, Hillary Clinton talks about why Donald Trump's message is playing right into the hands of terrorist recruiters at least that serve you. She also has answers to the most fundamental question of them all. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Let me ask you. Do you think that Donald Trump is qualified to be president?

CLINTON: No, I do not. And I think in this past week whether it's attacking Great Britain, praising the leader of North Korea, a despotic dictator who has nuclear weapons, whether it is saying pull out of NATO, let other countries have nuclear weapons, the kinds of positions he is stating and the consequences of those positions, and even the consequences of his statements are not just offensive to people, they are potentially dangerous.

CUOMO: How so?

CLINTON: Well, as I mentioned

CUOMO: Politicians talk, madam secretary. They say things, but then once they get in office, people believe nothing will be that different.

CLINTON: Well, when you run for President of the United States, the entire world is listening and watching. So, when you say we're going to bar all Muslims, you are sending a message to the Muslim world. And you're also sending a message to the terrorists because we now do have evidence.

We have seen how Donald Trump is being used to -- essentially, be a recruiter for more people to join the cause of terrorism. So, I think if you go through many of his irresponsible, reckless, dangerous comments, it's not just somebody saying something off the cuff. We all misstate things. We all, you now, may not be as careful in phrasing what we say.

This is a pattern. It's a pattern that has gone on now for months. And it's a pattern that adds up in my opinion having watched presidents, having seen the incredibly difficult work that they do and the decisions that they have to make, the thinking that goes in, sitting in the situation room, do we go after Bin Laden or not. I was part of that.

Was it a clear, easy choice? Of course not, did it have to be carefully parsed and analyzed. And then, we all gave our opinions but it was up to the president to decide. I know how hard this job is and I know that we need steadiness as well as strength and smarts in it. And I have concluded he is not qualified to be president of the United States.

CUOMO: You don't think Donald Trump could make that call in that room about whether or not to go after Bin Laden?

CLINTON: Based on what we know now, he could make it perhaps on evidence that wasn't clear. He could say a lot of things that might have given notice. I mean, you just -- based on the way he has behaved and how he has spoken and the policies he has literally thrown out there, I think it adds up to a troubling picture.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:30:07] BERMAN: We're going to have much more of Chris Cuomo's interview with Hillary Clinton ahead.

Joining me now to discuss what we just heard, CNN senior political analyst and former advisor to four presidents, David Gergen, CNN chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, and CNN political commentator and New York 1 political anchor, Errol Louis.

Gloria, you know, obviously Hillary Clinton doesn't want Donald Trump to be president. But unless you think what we heard tonight wasn't significant. You know, she was asked two weeks ago if you think Donald Trump is qualified to be president and she did not answer, she did not say no. What she said is voters will have to decide I'm going to talk about my own qualifications. Today, a world of difference in her answer. Why?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Welcome to the general election. She's taken a turn to the general election. She understands who she's up against. He's been calling her names, "crooked Hillary," and attacking her husband, and herself.

And she's decided, you know, the way to attack him is to let people know that he's risk and that he's dangerous and we live in dangerous times and that's the best argument she believes, according to her staff, that she can make against him. And so, if you were to do a word Cloud over everything that she was saying that Chris Cuomo, the words are offensive, dangerous, unpredictable, unmoored, not qualified, fear mongering, provocative, right?

And I think that these are words you're going to hear over and over again because she's just going to say this is too dangerous, a choice for Americans to make, period.

BERMAN: It's clearly, you know, at a different level, however, it's the same basic decision as the 3:00 a.m. phone call that she tried to Barack Obama, against Barack Obama when they ran against each other in 2008. She said, he is not ready for the 3:00 a.m. phone call, I am. Again, you know, different tone certainly in this but she tried this once and it didn't work.

ERROL LOUIS, NY1 POLITICAL ANCHOR: Well, I mean, let's remember back in 2008 then Senator Barack Obama was a bit of a blank slate. We've got Donald Trump who's making all kinds of statements, I mean, he's anything but a blank slate. He's promising every single day to build this wall with Mexico and have Mexico pay for it. He's threatening or promising every day to deport people, 11 million people. He's threatening or talking about every day reorganizing our relationship to NATO and to all of the other major alliances that we have and so, not to mention the trade deals.

So, when Hillary Clinton keeps honing in on these and saying things like risky choice, I hear her trying to talk to undecided voters. There are quite a few of them that are out there. I hear her trying to talk to independents and trying to define him and put him in a box. It's a little bit more sort of traditional, the way -- this is the way politicians usually do it. She's trying in a subtle way to sort of appeal to this block of voters ...

BORGER: Subtle?

LOUIS: ... who -- I think, well, subtle compared to Donald Trump, right?

BERMAN: Yeah, loose cannon, not so subtle.

BORGER: It's subtle.

LOUIS: Yeah, yeah. And to try to sort of place him and define him in people's minds before too much more time goes on, her hope and this is what her husband did in 1996, her hope is that by the time Donald Trump tries to respond effectively, it's already been baked in with a lot of the key constituencies that they'll both be competing for in the swing states.

BERMAN: You know, David Gergen, it's interesting because Donald Trump, you know, likes to say that he doesn't care that Hillary Clinton is saying this, he'd likes to say this is totally ridiculous, her point, he says that she is unqualified, yet Donald Trump met with Henry Kissinger this week, just yesterday. Henry Kissinger is the guy you worked with in the Nixon and Ford administrations. He's the guy he's considered, you know, an eminent figure in Republican foreign policy.

Clearly, Donald Trump is doing that for a reason, to try to give a sense that he is qualified, that he is talking to adults. Is this effective?

DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Well I think we've seen just the beginning of it but I do believe that if he were to do it over time, if he were to become more presidential and say, "grow," as they might say in Washington, I do think it will help him. What I think we see in Hillary Clinton is very, very interesting. I believe it's a strategic decision by her campaign, all right, and by Democrats more generally that the way for her to win is to be the anti-Trump person, to convince people that he's totally unqualified, unacceptable in office, dangerous in the office, rather than trying to convince people that she has a great plan for the future, she's going to make all of the changes.

I think we're going to see something like this with the Trump campaign over time, "Vote for me because I'm not Hillary." Hillary is saying, "Vote for me because I'm not Trump and I'm not dangerous." And she -- instead of trying to drive her approvals up, she is trying to drive his disapproval's up. She's trying to drive his negative ratings up. And if she gets up high enough and they think said, you know, that very well may be the path to victory.

BERMAN: And, Gloria, that means a lot. We're going to see a very nasty campaign for the next several months.

BORGER: Well, we are. And don't forget ...

GERGEN: Absolutely.

[21:35:00] BORGER: And these are both very unpopular candidates ...

BERMAN: Historically.

BORGER: ... historically unpopular candidates. And so, I think if David is right and I believe he is, what Hillary Clinton is trying to do is say, look, you may have problems with me and I know you've got problems with him, but I'm not dangerous, OK. I'm the choice that will not get us into war. I'm the choice that will no get us into trouble. We'll see if it works. What changes?

BERMAN: All right. Guys, stand by, much more ahead.

Chris Cuomo's interview with Hillary Clinton including, what she thinks about Bernie Sanders staying in the race. And how he handled the way some of supporters caused chaos at the Nevada State Democratic Convention.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Now, more of Chris Cuomo's exclusive interview with Hillary Clinton.

The delegate map going forward for Bernie Sanders is challenging, to say the least. He says he is staying in the race until all the votes are counted.

Now, in this part of an interview, Hillary Clinton -- she addresses that and the big picture issue of bringing the Democratic Party together while there are some pretty unhappy Sanders supporters out there. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: So, you get into the general election if you're the nominee for your current?

CLINTON: I will be the nominee for my party, Chris. That is already done in effect. There is no way that I won't be.

CUOMO: There is a senator from Vermont who has a different take on that.

CLINTON: Well ...

CUMO: He says he's going to fight to the end.

[21:40:00] CLINTON: Yeah, it's great.

CUOMO: And there seems to be a change here, as Donald Trump is trying to galvanize his party. And the Democratic Party seems to be going the other way.

His supporters have become more aggressive, feeling that the system is rigged against the Senator. We saw what happened in Nevada when you saw that, did you believe that Sanders responded the right way to the situation?

CLINTON: I was very disturbed by what went on there but I am confident ...

CUOMO: With him or the supporters?

CLINTON: Well, with what we saw. What we saw there.

CUOMO: The supporters?

CLINTON: Well what we saw was disturbing and, you know I have every confidence were going to be unified.

CUOMO: Where is that confidence come from?

CLINTON: Well in part from my own experience you know I went all the way to the end against then Senator Obama. I won nine out of the last 12 contests back in '08, I won Indiana, Kentucky, West Virginia, so I know the intense feelings that arise, particularly among your supporters as you go toward the end.

But we both were following the same rules just as both Senator Sanders and I are following the same rules and I'm 3 million votes ahead of him and I have an insurmountable lead in pledge delegates. And I am confident that just as I did with Senator Obama where I said you know what, it was really close, much closer, much closer than it is between me and Senator Sanders right now.

CUOMO: Both wise?

CLINTON: Yes both wise and delegate wise I said the -- you know in fact, if you depends how you evaluate it, I had more popular vote but I have fewer delegates and the name of the game is how many delegates you have, right?

So when I came out and withdrew and endorsed Senator Obama, about 40 percent according to polls, about 40 percent of my supporters said they would never support him. So I work really hard to make the case as I am sure Senator Sanders will that whatever differences we might have, they pale in comparison to the presumptive nominee of the Republican Party, name an issue you care about, domestic or international, and clearly we are much closer, Senator Sanders' supporters and mine than either of us is with Donald Trump.

CUOMO: Why don't you reach out directly to Senator Sanders and do the work of reunification, of unification of the party, however you want to see it. I ask this because Senator Sanders has said to me in the past and to many others, it is not my job to get my supporters to vote for Hillary Clinton.

Clinton has to make the case to the supporters and given what you see with increase in hostility and antagonism toward the process with the primaries on the Democratic side, should you reach out to Bernie Sanders and say let's start doing this the right way. Let me start talking, from your perspective, have you done that? Have you thought of doing that?

CLINTON: Well, I've said many times what I've just said to everyone, including his supporters, and I am absolutely committed to doing my part, more than my part. But Senator Sanders has to do his part that's why the lesson of 2008 which was a hard fought primary as you remember is so pertinent here, because I did my part, but so did Senator Obama.

CUOMO: And he thought to your making the first move and reaching out to make that process happen now as opposed to months from now?

CLINTON: Well I have -- we have had lots of conversations between people that know me well and support him ...

CUOMO: But not directly?

CLINTON: Well, he knows exactly what I am saying, he hears it all the time because I have said the same thing I respect him, I understand the very passionate advocacy he feels for the issues his been really pounding away at for years.

CUOMO: You know what would bring you two together very quickly, if Bernie Sanders became you vice president, is there any chance of that?

CLINTON: Well I'm not getting into that that's right -- that something down the road.

CUOMO: We're better here in your hometown make some news, makes it a historic place.

CLINTON: I think what's bring us together is Donald Trump I think that's what bring us together.

CUOMO: But seeing into considerations even on the list.

CLINTON: I'm not going to answering that question. Good try though Chris I'm not going to answer that question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: It was a nice try. Clearly Secretary Clinton is not ready to answer question about her potential running mates. But what about questions about her husband hear what she says about Trump's attack on their personal lives, Bill Clinton's in particular that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:48:21] BERMAN: If indeed it is Hillary Clinton versus Donald Trump in the general election which all signs are pointing to, there is a big question of strategy. Does Clinton take the high road or does she try to fight Donald Trump nickname for nickname, insult for insult which really hasn't worked for anyone so far. Here is more of Chris Cuomo's exclusive interview with Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: If you are the nominee and I know you have full confidence you will be, you know where Donald Trump is going. He has started early and he has adopted they go ugly early mentality. Heavily personal about you and your husband.

Your response has been I'm not going there ...

CLINTON: Right.

CUOMO: ... I'm going to stay above it.

CLINTON: Right.

CUOMO: The risk is that is what Jeb Bush said, that's what other said, and the stink round up sticking to them. Are you concerned that by ignoring the attacks they become more powerful?

CLINTON: No, I'm not because I think people can judge his campaign for what it is. I'm going to run my campaign, I'm not so much running against him as I am running for the kind of future that I think America deserves to have and that I believe that I'm the best candidate to deliver.

So that is why I talk a lot about what I will do economically what I will do on education and health care how we are going to bring the country together and I have a lot of experience working across the aisle with Republicans I did it as first lady, as Senator, as Secretary of State.

I'm very confident that were going to lay out my records of accomplishments my ideas my vision for the future. He can say whatever he wants to say, but I think in every election people want to know what are you going to do tomorrow? What's the future going to be look like if entrust you with this most solemn responsibility, and that is the exactly kind of campaign that I am running and I intend to keep running.

[21:50:10] CUOMO: Do you ever feel compelled to defend your honor the honor of you husband?

CLINTON: No.

CUOMO: With the statements that his making that go to the core of the relationship?

CLINTON: No, not at all. I know that that's exactly what he is fishing for, and, you know, I'm not going to be responding.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right. Hillary Clinton there, and you can hear her talking about her husband, she also and talked about Donald Trump a lot, and she also talk about Bernie Sanders.

Back now, with David Gergen and Gloria Borger and Errol Louis.

Gloria, the language she used when talking about the Sanders' campaign was something we have never heard before, not even close, she said about this campaign, it already done.

BORGER: I know.

BERMAN: I no way I won't be the nominee, she said.

BORGER: I was quite frankly stunned when she did it, and I realize the two things she did in this interview is when she just the she dismissed Donald Trump as not being qualified to be president.

The second thing she did is, dismissed Bernie Sanders and say, it's over. This race is over. She said I have an insurmountable lead and by the way, I was closer to President Obama than he is to me, and 40 percent of my supporters said that they would never support President Obama, and I, Hillary Clinton, managed to get them to enthusiastically support Obama, and by the way, I expects that is what Bernie Sanders is going to do for me.

She is sending such a direct signal to him which is shut this down. I mean, I mean, she said, "Oh, he has every right to stay in, but she is clearly getting a little ticked off here.

BERMAN: Well Errol the question is why, and I thinks it's doing more than saying, you know, she is initially saying to Bernie, it's on you pal.

BORGER: Yeah exactly.

BERMAN: It's all new to get you're people behind me. Why does she feel like this is the time to do that?

LOUIS: Well, that it's need to get done for one thing, I mean, she is got to organize a big national campaign and look there is a certain amount of just plain political reality that, you know, both the media and a lot of the political establishment I think really is sort of ought to just embrace rather than humoring the Bernie Sanders' supporters.

Here is the math. There are 939 delegates left, if Bernie Sanders can get 850 of them, and this all proportional and some how stop her from getting another 92, then yes, he will have beat her in pledge delegates. I don't see any scenario where that can possibly happen and I don't think Bernie Sanders does either.

So, that, you know, it's time I think in a minimum, just to, you know, I mean, Secretary Clinton wants what she wants but at a minimum, I think it's time for Bernie Sanders to start talking at least internally to his own people about what they might want other than the nomination, because there are a lot of other things, and there are a lot perfectly good reasons to push for a party platform planks, to change for the delegate rule -- changes in delegate rules and some other things going forward, but we haven't heard that from him, and I think that's what gets Hillary Clinton a little bit frustrated.

BERMAN: You know, Errol -- I mean David Gergen, if Errol's math is right, if that explanation he give is just right there, why then are we hearing from the Sanders' campaign today a statement which is downright belligerent when Hillary Clinton says it's essentially done, you put out a statement saying today that's not what the voters in West Virginia, Indiana and Oregon say, they of course vote for Bernie Sanders and what's more the statement that they put at to this that millions of Americans have growing doubts about the Clinton campaign.

Millions of Americans have growing doubts about the Clinton campaign. That doesn't sound like a candidate who's about to concede or get the supporters to line up behind Hillary Clinton.

GERGEN: It's not done. And I think that this is all about Californica. He wants to carry this race on, and be seen as a, you know, he has not pulled back, not talked about the platform changes that he wants.

He wants to go all out to present himself to the public as somebody who still got a shot, and so go vote for him in California. And if he wins in California or if he were gets a large share of the delegates in California, he will go into the convention with much more power and much more leverage to then look at the platform. But I think it's too early to expect them, either one of them to start make concession, because California is out there.

What I do think that the Democrats can ask of Sanders is don't, you know, we stay in the race, going run a gentleman's race, but don't go out and hurt Hillary anymore. Don't go out there and attack Hillary in ways, they're going to back and haunt her in the general election.

If you really truly care about the Democratic Party and the future of the Democratic Party, and you really fairly or truly fearful of Trump, then you owe it to her not to harm her in the next few weeks.

BERMAN: Yeah, three weeks is the time if he stands by that heading in the California. David, Gloria, Errol, thanks sop much.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:59:57] BERMAN: This next item got lost in the headlines today, and the person at the center might have just been OK with that.

Legendary CBS Newsman, Morley Safer was all about the story, not the person telling it.

He was through out his long carrier at the network and especially of "60 Minutes", famously, publicly, uncomfortable with life on camera.

[22:00:13] Yet, somehow, his face became his calling card perhaps ...