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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Interview with Hillary Clinton; Report: Trump Passes Off Donations As His Own; Pence: Trump's Given Millions To Charitable Foundations; Hillary Clinton Talks To CNN About Her Health. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 12, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:12] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening.
We begin tonight with Secretary Hillary Clinton. She is at home in Chappaqua, New York, tonight, recovering from pneumonia. She canceled her public schedule for the day. She joins me now on the phone.
Secretary Clinton, thank you very much your calling in. There's a lot of folks who are very worried about you. How are you feeling?
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE (via telephone): Oh, thank you, Anderson.
I'm feeling so much better, and obviously, I should have gotten some rest sooner. I probably would have been better off if I'd just pulled down my schedule on Friday. But, like a lot of people, I just thought I could keep going forward and power through it. And, obviously, that didn't work out so well.
COOPER: Let me ask you, your husband said tonight in an interview with Charlie Rose, he said, quote, "Rarely on more than one occasion over the last many, many years, the same sort of things happened to her" -- meaning you -- "when she got severely dehydrated."
Can you say how many times over the course of the last, say, five years you've been dehydrated and gotten dizzy? I know you passed out, hit your head back in 2012 which led to the concussion. How often has this happened?
CLINTON: Oh, I think really only twice that I can recall. You know, it is something that has occurred a few times over the course of my life, and I'm aware of it and usually can avoid it.
What happened yesterday was that I just was incredibly committed to being at the memorial -- as a senator on 9/11, this is incredibly personal to me. And I could, you know, feel how hot and humid it was. I felt overheated. I decided that I did need to leave.
And as soon as I got into the air-conditioned van, I cooled off, I got some water and very quickly I felt better. So, I felt fine, but I'm now taking my doctor's advice, which was given to me on Friday that I ignored, to just take some time to get over pneumonia completely. COOPER: You know, a lot of people have obviously seen the video of
you being helped into the van. Did you actually faint, did you actually pass out or lose consciousness?
CLINTON: No, I didn't. I felt dizzy and I did lose my balance for a minute, but once I got in, once I could sit down, once I could cool off, once I had some water, I immediately started feeling better. And my daughter lives nearby, so I went over to her apartment and, you know, spent time with her and my grandchildren which, you know --
COOPER: Right.
CLINTON: -- you know, the best medicine for anything in life.
COOPER: A lot has been made over the course of the last week or so about the cough you've been struggling with. You blamed it on allergies, joked at one point you were allergic to Donald Trump. Was that cough actually pneumonia related and not, in fact, allergy- related?
CLINTON: Well, it sure seemed like it was an allergy because I've had allergies, seasonal allergies off and on, and it does come with a cough. You know, I've got lots of examples of, you know, in the spring and in the fall, getting a bit of a coughing fit, then it dissipates.
What happened this time, though, was it didn't dissipate and that's why when I got off the road on Friday, I did go to see my doctor and that's when I was diagnosed with pneumonia. And the funniest thing that happened to me on Sunday, wasn't a funny day, after all, but this was kind of humorous, is I got to the memorial, I saw my friend and former colleague, Chuck Schumer, and the first thing he says to me is I've had pneumonia and I've been resting for five days. And I looked at him, he said, you know, that's so funny, I've just been told I have pneumonia.
So, apparently, there's something to this that's going around.
COOPER: Yes.
CLINTON: I've since been contacted by a number of people who've told me they have had it, they've gotten over it.
COOPER: So, let me ask you about that because David Axelrod was very critical of the way that you and your campaign handled sharing your diagnosis with the public. He tweeted, "Antibiotics can take care of pneumonia, what's the cure for an unhealthy penchant for privacy that repeatedly creates unnecessary problems?"
Why not just say on Friday as you said apparently to Senator Schumer on Sunday, you know, I have pneumonia, folks, I'm going to power through it? Why keep it a secret?
CLINTON: Well, I just didn't think it was going to be that big a deal. You know, I know Chuck said today he didn't tell anybody. It's just the kind of thing that if it happens to you and you're a busy, active person, you keep moving forward.
And, you know, I think it's fair to say, Anderson, that people know more about me than almost anyone in public life. They've got 40 years of my tax returns, tens of thousands of e-mails, a detailed medical letter report, all kinds of personal details.
[20:05:05] And, you know, it's just so -- it's so strange that with all of that information out there, and as soon it became clear I couldn't power through, we, you know, we said what was going on.
COOPER: Yes, but when you --
CLINTON: Donald Trump is --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Sorry, when you left your daughter's apartment, you said you were feeling great. Obviously, you --
CLINTON: I did. I felt -- I felt really good, but that didn't mean that I shouldn't rest. So when I -- you know, I did. I mean, I felt 100 percent better.
COOPER: Doesn't your handling of this, and your campaign's -- you know, their refusal to acknowledge what happened until really after that video was circulated, confirms suspicion of some voters that you're not transparent or trustworthy?
CLINTON: Oh, my goodness, Anderson. You know, compare everything you know about me with my opponent. I think it's time he met the same level of disclosure that I have for years. You know, you've got a medical report on me that meets the same standard as Mitt Romney and Barack Obama.
Donald Trump's doctor said he'd be the healthiest president in history. That's just not even serious. And I've released nearly 40 years of tax returns. He hasn't released one.
This is a man with unknown numbers of partners and investors who says he's doing 120 foreign deals. The American people deserve to know what he's up to and what he is hiding.
So, if we weren't -- if we weren't fast enough, you know, I've talked to my staff, we, you know, take responsibility for that. But the information is out there. You can't say the same thing about Donald Trump.
COOPER: Brian Fallon from your campaign said your campaign is going to release more of your records. I know, as you know, probably, Donald Trump has said he's now had a physical I believe on Friday and he's going to release that soon.
Will you be releasing more details about your medical history and do you know, you know, how detailed it's going to be, how far it's going to go back? Is it going to be more about what happened in 2012 when you -- when you fell and hit your head? Do you know how far it will go?
CLINTON: Well, we're going to be releasing more information, and I think it's fair to say, we've already met the standard of disclosure of past presidential candidates like Mitt Romney and President Obama.
We'll add more information, but I've already released information about my health in this campaign, as well as nearly 40 years of tax returns. We've already met a high standard of transparency.
And we know the least about Donald Trump of any candidate in recent American history. You know, virtually nothing about his business entanglements, his foreign investors. You know, it's really past time for him to be held to the same standard, not just as me, but of everybody else who has sought this job.
COOPER: The final question, I know both your supporters and probably those who are opposed to you want to know the answer to is, how quickly, when are you going to get back on the campaign trail?
CLINTON: Well, it will be the next couple of days. Obviously, I was supposed to rest five days. That's what they told me on Friday, and I didn't follow that very wise advice. So, I just want to get this over and done with and get back on the trail as soon as possible.
COOPER: Well, Secretary Clinton, we wish you the best and a speedy recovery. Thanks to you so much for speaking with us.
CLINTON: Thank you. Good to talk to you, Anderson. Thanks a lot. Bye-bye.
COOPER: And joining -- bye-bye.
Joining me now CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
From a medical perspective, what do you make of what you heard and what we saw on Sunday?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, she's -- it's what the campaign has been saying now. They attribute that entire episode where you saw her having the difficulty getting to the van on this dehydration due to pneumonia primarily.
COOPER: So, do -- does pneumonia lead to dehydration?
GUPTA: It can. You know, you can have a fever. A fever can lead to dehydration. The infection, itself, can cause dehydration.
In addition, you may not be eating and drinking as much because you don't feel well. She mentioned it was a warm day outside. So, all those things in combination.
She also earlier before they talked about the pneumonia, also talked about the fact she's on a couple of medications -- a thyroid medication which can increase your heat intolerance. A decongestant, it sort of dries up your sinuses but can cause dehydration. So, a combination of things. It's plausible all those things together
could cause the profound dehydration. Your blood pressure drops. Athletes call it bonking, you know, where you sort of, you kind of -- you're no longer able to keep your balance -- those sorts of things. So, it is possible.
So, she's saying the same thing now that we're hearing from the campaign two days after she was diagnosed, but nevertheless, the same thing.
COOPER: To her point that she's been more transparent in terms of her medical history than Donald Trump, you've looked at both the releases from the campaigns. Is there truth to what she says?
GUPTA: I think it's fair to say that compared to Donald Trump, her medical letter, if you will, is a two-page letter, it does go back further.
[20:10:01] It has more objective data in it, you know, in terms of lab results, the medication that she's on, how long she's been on, things like that. So, there is more data.
When you go back to 2008, for example, with John McCain, Senator McCain, that was far more comprehensive. You had based -- I was one of the reporters allowed to look at thousand pages literally of his medical record for several hours. So, he was pretty transparent about it at the time. We didn't get to actually remove any of those medical records and they weren't made public. But we could examine themselves our for certain amount of time.
A lot of people said should that be the standard? You know, when -- back before that when George W. Bush and John Kerry were running against each other in 2004, there wasn't a big clamoring by the public for medical records. They're pretty young. They looked pretty healthy but that has changed. There's a greater demand now for those medical records and a greater transparency.
COOPER: Something like pneumonia, I mean, people now about walking pneumonia, there's different kinds. But -- I mean, how likely is it that she can get back on the trail within a matter of days?
GUPTA: You know, this is a very important point. I'm glad you asked this, because -- you know, even though we now know she has pneumonia, we still don't know a lot about the pneumonia. And I bring that, this is a medical sort of story, obviously, but what type of pneumonia is it, what is it caused by?
We think it's a bacteria because she's on antibiotics. But is there a viral component? Was there some other component to it? Did she get a chest x-ray?
Because with the chest x-ray, you can see how much of the lung is actually affected. A walking pneumonia is sort of a colloquial term for saying a pneumonia that's not as serious. But we don't know.
I just heard for the first time. It sounds like her doctor said she should get five days of rest. That was the first time I heard a specific number around that. They would suggest a more serious thing. They worried enough to say, hey, look, five days of rest.
COOPER: Also, pneumonia in somebody over the age of 65 is different than pneumonia someone who's younger. To just say there's greater danger to it, obviously.
GUPTA: You're older, but you're also more vulnerable to pneumonia in the first place, more likely to get pneumonia in the first place.
COOPER: All right. Sanjay Gupta, thanks.
We're going to continue the conversation after a quick break. Tonight's panel will join me to talk about what Hillary Clinton said tonight.
Also ahead, after saying for months and months that Hillary Clinton lacks strength and stamina, Trump is not saying much about her health. Instead, he's focusing on her basket of deplorables comment. What he said just a short time ago, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:15:26] COOPER: At the top of the broadcast, I spoke with Hillary Clinton on the phone. She's in Chappaqua, New York, tonight, recovering from pneumonia.
I want to play just a little bit of what we talked about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: David Axelrod was very critical of the way that you and your campaign handled sharing your diagnosis with the public. He tweeted, "Antibiotics can take care of pneumonia, what's the cure for an unhealthy penchant for privacy that repeatedly creates unnecessary problems?"
Why not just say on Friday as you said apparently to Senator Schumer on Sunday, you know, I have pneumonia, folks, I'm going to power through it? Why keep it a secret?
CLINTON: Well, I just didn't think it was going to be that big a deal. You know, I know Chuck said today he didn't tell anybody. It's just the kind of thing that if it happens to you and you're a busy, active person, you keep moving forward.
And, you know, I think it's fair to say, Anderson, that people know more about me than almost anyone in public life. They've got 40 years of my tax returns, tens of thousands of e-mails, a detailed medical letter report, all kinds of personal details.
And, you know, it's just so -- it's so strange that with all of that information out there, and as soon it became clear I couldn't power through, we, you know, we said what was going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Secretary Clinton just a few minutes ago.
Lots to talk about with our panel. Joining me tonight, Tony Schwartz, who co-wrote Donald Trump's book "The Art of the Deal." He's a Clinton supporter. Our CNN political commentator, former Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski, Trump supporter Jeffrey Lord., Clinton supporter, former New York City Council speaker, Christine Quinn.
Christine, I mean, there was radio silence from the Trump campaign for some 90 minutes then they she was dehydrated, or they said she was overheated, actually, and it was really only once that cell phone video was released, that all of a sudden information came forth. Why not just be transparent from Friday, say, yes, she's got pneumonia?
CHRISTINE QUINN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I mean, I think this -- the secretary really spoke for herself saying she got diagnosed with pneumonia on Friday. Let's just all kind of take a step back.
She got diagnosed with pneumonia, right? That's something that's easily treatable. That's going to go away. She didn't get diagnosed, thank God, with something that was really serious or incurable or anything like that.
So, she thought I'll take my antibiotics, I'll power through this and in a couple days the pneumonia will be gone. I don't think that's kind of an unreasonable thing for somebody to think. Honestly, I got to tell you, I like the attitude of powering through. I like the idea she never thought of cancelling on the 9/11 Memorial.
COOPER: But, Jeffrey, had that video not been shot and released --
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Correct.
COOPER: -- you think they would have come forward and said it was pneumonia?
LORD: No, I don't. I went back and took a look at something in history. When Richard Nixon was the Republican in August 30th of 1960, he was admitted to the hospital for a knee infection. He was there for two weeks.
They went all out with publicity, this was his problem. We would call this too much information today. They had cameramen to take pictures of him in his pajamas signing papers. The president went to visit with him. Other dignitaries went to visit with him.
The whole attitude was here's the problem, this is what it is, then we'll move on. This has been totally different. And I think she's got a real PR because of this.
COOPER: But, Corey, to Secretary Clinton's point, we do know more about her medical records than we do Donald Trump. Donald Trump has now said he's had another exam, he's going to release those. But to her point, she says she's given up more information than certainly than he has. Not only on health, but also obviously taxes.
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Look, let's say what it is, number one, you know, no one on the panel is a doctor so I think the doctors have to evaluate what is wrong with Hillary Clinton. If she has a pneumonia, then she has a pneumonia.
But I think it's very fair for each of the candidates right now knowing that one is 70 years old, the other is going to be 69 years old by the time the election rolls around to release detailed medical record. Donald Trump said he's going to do that. He's going to -- he had a physical on Friday. He's going to release his medical records sometime this week. He's been clear about that.
I would encourage Hillary Clinton to do the same thing. So, if there is a problem, not that there is, but if there is a problem, the American people can understand that before they go to the ballot in November.
QUINN: Anderson --
COOPER: Let me just bring Tony.
Tony, I mean, as a Clinton supporter, what do you make of how the Clinton campaign handled this?
TONY SCHWARTZ, CO-AUTHOR, "THE ART OF THE DEAL": I prefer to not you talk of me as a Clinton supporter. I'm a Trump describer.
COOPER: OK.
SCHWARTZ: OK? Based on my experience.
COOPER: What do you make of how Trump has handled this ?
SCHWARTZ: Well, I'd like to talk about that. I think Donald Trump is on the shortest leash I've ever seen him on. He is chafing at the bit to talk about this because we know he loves to go after things like this and usually does.
[20:20:02] It's amazing to me that he's on this.
COOPER: It's very smart, I think, for the Trump campaign to have him pulled back.
SCHWARTZ: What's extraordinary is, you know, he took time on Saturday morning in the middle of what was going on in the world to attack me three times. Fine. On Twitter. Fine. But what a statement that is about where his attention is.
So, what I think about Donald Trump, it's the same thing that happened in Baltimore today when he gave a speech which is, now, he's got people writing speeches for him. There is not one word in the speech he gave today that has any relationship to something Donald Trump thinks, feels or whatever said. He managed to read it. Problems --
LORD: Anderson, one of the problems -- COOPER: Let Jeffrey respond.
LORD: One of the problems you have here, what about if she is elected president of the United States? That's what this really goes to because if she's president of the United States, is health going to be an issue? Can it be? It is for any president.
But what else? I mean, we've had presidents accused of lying about Vietnam. We've had presidents accused of lying about Iraq. We've had presidents accused of withholding information. That's what this really goes to.
SCHWARTZ: You're right.
COOPER: Donald Trump --
SCHWARTZ: No, you're right.
COOPER: I mean, Donald Trump has been accused about, you know, his bone spur to get out of the draft. You're raising questions about your own candidate.
LORD: No, I'm just simply saying the photos, those pictures, paint a --
COOPER: Christine --
SCHWARTZ: Hey, Jeff, here we go again. Here you go again.
COOPER: A couple of points re. You know, Corey's right. None of us are doctors. The statement on the pneumonia, et cetera, put out on Sunday, was by a doctor. By her doctor who reexamined her on Sunday and the campaign put out that full statement by the doctor after that examination.
LEWANDOWSKI: Christine --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Let her finish.
QUINN: Wait, wait, wait. I'm not saying she's a pneumonia. I'm not Dr. Quinn medicine woman. But her doctor said she has a pneumonia. One.
Two --
LORD: I believe her.
QUINN: Right. Corey seemed to dog whistle.
Two, the issue of who's put out more medical information, we can say it needs to be more, but clearly Secretary Clinton has. You know, there was even questions raised about the doctor who put out Donald Trump's letters --
LORD: This is current. This is right now.
QUINN: We also know Donald is going to put more out later in the week and Secretary Clinton is, too. So, that is being met. And again, when she's president she can get a pneumonia, so might he.
LEWANDOWSKI: The campaign's response -- the Clinton's campaign response immediately after this happening was, it was dehydration, she overheated. They didn't mention pneumonia. If she was diagnosed on Friday, this was two days later. They could have easily come out and said she has a pneumonia. We knew that. That's not what they said.
They said, very clearly, she's overheated. It was -- look, I was at 9 /11 that day. It was 80 degrees in the shade. It was 78 degrees and it was cool. It wasn't exceptionally hot that day.
SCHWARTZ: Let's be clear. Let's put this in perspective. Compared to not releasing your tax returns when it's clear that those tax returns --
LEWANDOWSKI: Why? Why release your tax returns?
SCHWARTZ: Because every president has done it.
LEWANDOWSKI: So what?
SCHWARTZ: It's part of transparency.
LEWANDOWSKI: So what? So what if you're president? It doesn't matter.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHWARTZ: Corey, he's terrified of releasing those tax returns.
LEWANDOWSKI: What do you think we're going to see in the tax return?
SCHWARTZ: That he's worth well less than he says.
LEWANDOWSKI: That's not what a tax return says.
SCHWARTZ: It's a very good indicator. It's a very good indicator.
LEWANDOWSKI: It is one year of how much money you earned. That's what it says.
QUINN: But then, why not release it?
SCHWARTZ: Exactly, you learn what a cheapskate he is as we saw through the "Washington Post" article yesterday.
LEWANDOWSKI: He just gave $1 million to a foundation to support the veterans.
COOPER: We're going to --
LEWANDOWSKI: That's a fact. COOPER: We're going to take a pause. We'll continue this
conversation when we come back.
A quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:27:29] COOPER: Hillary Clinton says she's feeling better. I spoke with her on the phone at the beginning of the broadcast tonight. She told me she tried to power through her pneumonia but is taking her doctor's advice to rest.
Yesterday, she left a 9/11 memorial, as you know, after becoming overheated, according to her campaign, went to her daughter, Chelsea's apartment. Here's more of my conversation with Secretary Clinton just a few moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: When you left your daughter's apartment, you said you were feeling great. Obviously, you --
CLINTON: I did. I felt -- I felt really good, but that didn't mean that I shouldn't rest. So when I -- you know, I did. I mean, I felt 100 percent better.
COOPER: Doesn't your handling of this, and your campaign's -- you know, their refusal to acknowledge what happened until really after that video was circulated, confirms suspicion of some voters that you're not transparent or trustworthy?
CLINTON: Oh, my goodness, Anderson. You know, compare everything you know about me with my opponent. I think it's time he met the same level of disclosure that I have for years. You know, you've got a medical report on me that meets the same standard as Mitt Romney and Barack Obama.
Donald Trump's doctor said he'd be the healthiest president in history. That's just not even serious. And I've released nearly 40 years of tax returns. He hasn't released one.
This is a man with unknown numbers of partners and investors who says he's doing 120 foreign deals. The American people deserve to know what he's up to and what he is hiding.
So, if we weren't -- if we weren't fast enough, you know, I've talked to my staff, we, you know, take responsibility for that. But the information is out there. You can't say the same thing about Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Back with the panel. Tony, I mean, clearly as somebody who's not a Trump fan, Secretary Clinton is trying to pivot this as, to kind of have a juxtaposition between herself and Donald Trump. SCHWARTZ: Well, I mean, let's be clear that Donald Trump has been
remarkably un-transparent. What he's done is he's been transparent about lying. So, he transparently lies, but what he doesn't do is release anything of substance that he thinks that traditionally gets released if he thinks in any way it might harm him.
So, Corey can say, you know, oh, there's nothing in those tax returns. Well, if there's nothing in them, Corey, why can't we see them? And it's nonsense to believe that it's because of an audit. There's a very clear reason, and the thing that Donald Trump hates the most is when people get at the fact that he is worth so vastly much less than he claims.
[20:30:03] He doesn't want that to come out, and he doesn't want it to come out that he's contributed.
COOPER: Corey, I want you to be able to respond. But --
(CROSSTALK)
LEWANDOWSKI: I like Tony, but the truth is he wanted to write a second book with Donald Trump and Donald Trump said no.
SCHWARTZ: Well, let's be really clear. Let me correct the record.
LEWANDOWSKI: No, that's true.
COOPER: Let him respond.
SCHWARTZ: It's a lie. It's a pathological lie on Donald's part. I never wanted to do that book. He came to me. I walked through Central Park with him. He offered me ...
LEWANDWOWSKI: How much money did you make on the book?
SCHWARTZ: Be quiet while I ...
LEWANDOWSKI: No, don't speak to me like that. How much money did you make? It's transparency. How much money did you make on the book?
SCHWARTZ: I said publicly what I made.
LEWANDOWSKI: How much was that?
SCHWARTZ: I'm not going to answer.
LEWANDOWSKI: Why you said publicly, if it's transparency.
SCHWARTZ: $1.6 million.
LEWANDOWSKI: In 1980 what?
SCHWARTZ: 1987. You're changing the subject. What I'm saying is, that man, you just accused me of something, that man came to me, offered me the opportunity to do the second book and with great enjoyment I turned him down. I fired Donald Trump. LEWANDOWSKI: You fired him. You fired him. You made $1.5 million. You decided I didn't need anymore money.
COOPER: But Corey, why not -- I mean Donald Trump's own attorneys have released a letter that said his tax returns from 2002 to 2008 are not under audit.
LEWANDOWSKI: That's right.
COOPER: That the audit has already occurred. Why not at least release those are returns? Because the IRS has already seen them, they've already examined them. It has no bearing on anything. He could -- if the audit is the real reason he's not releasing the current ones why not ...
(CROSSTALK)
LEWANDOWSKI: He's been very clear about this. And look, what you also have to know, and Tony doesn't understand this, is that, the personal disclosure statement which Donald Trump filed with the Fair Elections Commission is significantly more detailed about his holdings, what percentage ...
(CROSSTALK)
LEWANDOWSKI: Because your tax returns don't say that. He disclosed that he has over 500 companies at varying degrees of ownership in those companies the plurality ...
COOPER: Again, why not release this 2002 to 2008, there not under audit.
LEWANDOWSKI: But -- because it doesn't do anything. What it does tell you ...
COOPER: If it doesn't tell you anything, why not release them?
LEWANDOWSKI: You might FEC document which is a public document, which is required by all the candidates, it tells you what his total assets are and his total liabilities are.
SCHWARTZ: You're deflecting.
LEWANDOWSKI: That tell you how much money ... COOPER: But a lot of that stuff is his own interpretation of his net worth ...
LEWANDOWSKI: No, it's not. It says what ...
COOPER: ... based on things fluctuate with times.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWANDOWSKI: ... or guides in Mr. Trump's wealth.
QUINN: Well, let me say for a second, those financial disclosure forms with people who are running for all offices and have all offices, I did them when I was speaker. And Mike Bloomberg found a way to make those financial disclosure forms work when he was president, so they clearly can, you know, people can -- but the point is on the financial disclosure forms, they're far less details than your taxes and you tell on the disclosure what you think your house is worth. Right?
What your house's last assessment was? And it's in brackets. So do you make one to 50, 50 to 100. It is not -- I've done my taxes. And I've done those. It's not the same ...
COOPER: I still don't understand the answer to the question.
QUINN: Right.
COOPER: If the returns from 2002 to 2008 aren't under audit, the IRS has already audited them, why not release those?
LORD: I'll tell you why and just in my opinion why he shouldn't do it, because I think this whole thing has become -- not just with Donald Trump but the whole show business of releasing tax returns has become nothing but political gotcha's. And that's what opponents are looking for.
SCHWARTZ: NO.
LORD: If I were advising Donald Trump, which I'm not, I'd say don't release anything. Ever. We've had every president in the United States ...
COOPER: No medical records, no taxes?
LORD: Medical records can be a little different. But every president of the United States up until Richard Nixon never released tax returns. Not that George Washington.
SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but why, Jeffrey doesn't ...
(CROSSTALK)
LEWANDOWSKI: So what do we learn about Mike Pence's tax returns that was so spectacular?
SCHWARTZ: Why -- can I ask this question? Why does Mitch McConnell advocate his releasing his tax ...
(CROSSTALK)
SCHWARTZ: He's a Republican supporting your candidate, Jeffrey.
LEWANDOWSKI: What did we learn from Mike Pence's 10 years of taxes that were so stunning?
SCHWARTZ: Nothing. We know he doesn't have a problem.
LORD: Which is an admission that we're in this for gotcha. LEWANDOWSKI: That's right. We want to get ...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: But actually -- but no -- but the fact that we didn't learn anything from Mike Pence, doesn't that say something about Mike Pence?
(CROSSTALK)
LEWANDOWSKI: Mike Pence didn't build a $10 million corporation. Mike Pence doesn't employ tens of thousands of people ...
LORD: Right.
LEWANDOWSKI: ... all over the country.
SCHWARTZ: So what?
LEWANDOWSKI: Mike Pence has also been very clear, Donald Trump has been very, very clear about this issue and the antithesis or whatever politicians suppose to say. I pay as little tax as possible. Every other politician will say, I pay the highest rate and I gave extra. It's absurd as a businessman to think that.
SCHWARTZ: No, he stopped saying that.
LEWANDOWSKI: No, he didn't. He's very clear about that, I pay the lowest amount of taxes possible, I take every write-off possible because I have an obligation to my business and employees ...
COOPER: Right, which I was thought actually was a smart thing for him to say if he was going to actually release his tax and in then -- you know, makes him vulnerable to the criticisms he's not paying enough taxes. I just don't get if the audit thing is the reason, why not release the ones that have already been audited?
QUINN: Follow the Trump thinking here for a second, which I find kind of humorous and clever in a way. So taxes are not -- don't need to be released which I don't understand because it makes me think there's something there. But you said something, those don't need to be released.
[20:34:58] Although the medical records, they're different. So it's like anything you think is not going to be good for Secretary Clinton has to be released.
SCHWARTZ: Oh no.
QUINN: And then Trump -- you're holding him to a different standard.
SCHWARTZ: No, no.
QUINN: And if you don't think things need to be released, then why is he -- I assume going to a legitimate doctor and going to release records this week? It's easy -- you can't have one standard for one set of things and another standard ... LORD: I had the same standard if Donald Trump ...
QUINN: It doesn't make sense.
LORD: ... if Donald Trump passed out and had to carry him into a van, I'd want to see his health records for what happened just then. You bet.
SCHWARTZ: Well you didn't want to see enough for having take to be urging him to do the release of the medical records before. Instead he went to some cock Amy (ph) doctor ...
QUINN: Correct.
SCHWARTZ: ... who -- he grab on a afternoon, who wrote in a illiterate statement about his medical records and now he's going to be the apotheosis of transparency?
LORD: I have to tell you, I've used this line before, I'll use it again. If you go to the Summit Diner in Lemoyne, Pennsylvania's and ask people the biggest issue, this isn't it.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHWARTZ: Look I don't understand how you can make this sort of statements about a doctor you've never met, never been called into question, he's never had issue?
QUINN: It has. Really?
(CROSSTALK)
LEWANDOWSKI: So both of you are now experts in the medical field and you can evaluate ...
SCHWARTZ: No we're experts at reading unlike Donald Trump.
LEWANDOWSKI: You have spent time with Donald Trump.
SCHWARTZ: I have.
LEWANDOWSKI: Have you found him healthy, have you find him high energy, have you ever found a health issue all the time you spent with him? Yes or no? Did I spent 18 hours a day with him for 18 months and all I've seen is this guy go, go, go, go, go.
QUINN: But neither of you are doctors.
LEWANDOWSKI: That's right. But he's making statements about the doctor's ability ...
SCHWARTZ: What's your point?
LEWANDOWSKI: Because what you're saying is this doctor isn't qualified to make an assessment of Donald Trump. You spend time with him. (CROSSTALK)
LEWANDOWSKI: You have spent time with him.
SCHWARTZ: 30 years ago. He was 38 years old.
LEWANDOWSKI: I spent time with him this year.
SCHWARTZ: He was very healthy in his 30s. I can tell you that.
QUINN: Let's go back to the question of doctors and I do think it is important to note that it has been widely reported that the gentleman who wrote the letter for Donald Trump said he had certain privileges at a hospital in New York that he does not. There are questions.
COOPER: Well we're going to leave the conversation there. I do want to thank everybody. More talk ahead on Hillary Clinton's health. More my interview with her that wrapped up at the top of the broadcast. And more of my reaction.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:41:11] COOPER: Hillary Clinton said she tried to keep working even though she has been sick but is feeling better after a day at home. Now, yesterday she left the 9/11 memorial as you know after feeling overheated according to her campaign. Later we found out she'd been diagnosed with pneumonia.
I spoke to secretary Clinton a short time ago on the phone at the top of this broadcast. She said it's been going around.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The funniest thing that happened to me on Sunday, wasn't a funny day, after all, but this was kind of humorous, is I got to the memorial, I saw my friend and former colleague, Chuck Schumer, and the first thing he said to me is I've had pneumonia and I've been resting for five days and I looked at him and said, you know, that so funny. I just been told I have pneumonia. So apparently there's something to this that's going around, and I've since been contacted by, you know, a number of people who've told me they have had it, they've gotten over it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, joining me now is former Mitt Romney campaign adviser, Stuart Stevens, CNN political commentator, and former Obama senior adviser, Dan Pfeiffer, and CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger.
Gloria, I mean what do you make about how the Clinton campaign handled the dissemination of this information? Because it really wasn't until that video came out that the public was informed, that reporters were informed that she'd been diagnosed on Friday with pneumonia. GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. I say ad what was surprising to me in your interview, Anderson, was when you asked her about her penchant for privacy. She, said, I didn't think this would be that big of deal. Which really surprised me because Donald Trump has been talking about Hillary Clinton's stamina and her health with innuendo for this entire campaign.
And so I believe what occurred is she that was clearly worried that it would become a campaign issue and that is why the press wasn't told about it on Friday. Now I know a lot of people believes that everybody gets pneumonia on campaigns and part of that is true and lots of candidates get sick and they don't tell people about it.
But what occurred here clearly was a decision by the candidate to keep this close because of the repercussions it could have on the campaign trail.
COOPER: Dan, do you agree with that? I mean that seems like a logical explanation of why she wouldn't have said something to the public or even, you know, disseminated it widely throughout the campaign.
DAN PFEIFFER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, in every campaign I worked on, I was trying to think back, if I could even imagine a world in which with working with President Obama and other candidates is you would go out and tell the press you had pneumonia. I don't think you'd ever do that. I think it is fair and they acknowledged this, that they should have got the information out more quickly on Sunday.
But candidate -- you know, if she was not going to change her schedule, I don't -- I wouldn't is seen any reason why it would have made sense to disclose that in advance. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 of, you know, of given what happened on Sunday but it's pretty standard. Candidates in campaign are sick all the time. And if they disclosed it every moment, you know, for something that's a very treatable, common illness like pneumonia, I don't think it's that big of deal.
COOPER: Stuart, do you agree with that? I mean it would have played into the narrative that Donald Trump had been or instantly (ph) or perhaps more accurately, a lot of his surrogates had been the very least insinuating that and Donald Trump has been saying about a lack of stamina.
STUART STEVENS, FORMER MITT ROMNEY CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Look, I think as presidential candidates are a lot like pro-athletes. They don't ever like to talk about anything that reveals a weakness.
But, you know, I think it's perfectly natural. If Hillary Clinton felt that she was going to get over an pneumonia, it wouldn't be a big deal, I suppose they should have told the press. I'll leave that up to those who are the press handlers to decide that. But, you know, in the larger context is I really don't understand this as a campaign issue that if you thought Hillary Clinton had some ailment like this, why would you want to vote for Donald Trump or vice versa? I mean this is such a polarized race. [20:45:00] I just don't think there's a lot of people out there sort of waking up in the morning saying, you know, I might vote for Hillary Clinton depending on her health, I might vote for Donald Trump depending on a ...
COOPER: So you don't think it actually has any kind of lasting ramifications?
BORGER: I ...
STEVENS: No, you know, I think if this was a primary where you had candidates who agreed with each other and you were looking for it and maybe to -- but the candidates are so apart on almost every issue and every dividing line in politics, more so than almost any race we've had in modern history. I don't see this as being anything that's going to push people one way or the other.
BORGER: But Stuart, don't you think this becomes sort of the transparency issue here which is that the Clinton campaign wasn't as transparent as it should have been, and then Hillary Clinton can say about Donald Trump, well, he's not as transparent as I've been, and by the way, I'm releasing more health records, where are his, and by the way, I released my taxes and where are his?
So it kind of takes you down this rabbit hole of, or this question of transparency. So they're trying to kind of turn it around to be a point of argument against Donald Trump which, by the way, might work for them.
STEVENS: I think it will. Until Donald Trump releases his tax returns.
BORGER: Right.
STEVENS: I mean Donald Trump is trying to do something that no modern presidential candidate has ever done which is not release even a year of tax returns. And for someone who will pretty much say anything, it does leave one to the conclusion that there might be something in those tax returns that the he really thinks is disqualifying. So a transparency argument, I don't see Trump winning that argument until he ups the ante.
COOPER: Dan, do you think this has any -- the health issue has any lasting ramifications in the days that we have left?
PFEIFFER: No. I think that -- I agree with Stuart. Though I can't imagine a single voter who was inclined to vote for Hillary Clinton saying I don't want to do it either because they think she's not healthy generally or she did not immediately or disclose her pneumonia as quickly as possible. I think we'll all look back on these months later and wonder why we spent a whole weekend worrying about this instead of watching football or doing whatever else anyone was going to do on a Sunday.
BORGER: I think it's mostly reaffirming, though. You know, people who are suspicious of Hillary Clinton will continue to be suspicious of Hillary Clinton. And people who think that it's, you know, who like Hillary Clinton will think, oh, this is nothing and it's going to be blow over, but in your interview, Anderson, what was interesting to me was she raised Donald Trump's 120 foreign deals. She started talking about.
COOPER: Right.
BORGER: Which have not been revealed yet through his tax returns and so she's clearly turning this into an examination of Donald Trump's taxes and his own lack of disclosure.
COOPER: We got to leave it there. Gloria Borger, Dan Pfeiffer, Stuart Stevens always, thank you, a pleasure.
There's a lot more ahead tonight including accusations against Donald Trump's foundation, accusations that he passes off charitable donations as his own. Details on that, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:51:57] COOPER: If you missed my full interview with secretary Hillary Clinton which we played -- she called if live for at the top of this broadcast, we're going to replay it at the top of the 9:00 hour just some 8 minutes from now. It's the first interview she's given since her medical emergency yesterday in New York.
But, first, some new reporting on Donald Trump and his donation to charity specifically how much of his own money has he actually donated? Since the candidate won't release his own tax returns, it's not that simple to answer that question. Trump's pick for vice president, Mike Pence, who did release his tax returns Friday told Wolf Blitzer the number is in the tens of millions of dollars. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. MIKE PENCE, (R) VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Anyone who knows about Donald Trump and his career knows that this is a man who's given away tens of millions of dollars to charitable causes.
There simply is no question, you can talk to charities all across the country who have benefited by the generosity of the Trump family ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: But the "Washington Post" did just that, they looked over 17 years of tax filings for the Donald J. Trump Foundation and interviewed more than 200 people or groups listed as donors or beneficiaries. Their investigation discovered the foundation spends money in a very unusual way.
Drew Griffin, our senior investigative correspondent, is also digging into the foundation, he joins us now. Drew?
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, we took a look at the Trump Foundation's tax records and Donald Trump hasn't given any of his own money to the foundation that bears his name since his last donation in 2008. Now, before that, he did give a significant amount, more than $2.7 million of his own money, now, from 2001 to 2008, but where does the money in his foundation come from now?
First of all, it is not a lot of money in this foundation Anderson. There's just over a million dollars in the latest tax returns. Trump has gotten individual donations from NBC, $500,000 in 2012. A year earlier, Comedy Central give him $400,000. 2009, World Wrestling Entertainment gave $1 million. All entities that had business with him, Anderson.
COOPER: So Trump takes that money, that organizations give, and what does he do with it?
GRIFFIN: That's one of the rubs. In many cases, if not all the recent ones, he takes the money that's been donated to his foundation, puts his name on it and gives it to other people. So he uses other people's money to make donations to others.
COOPER: So who are they giving that money to?
GRIFFIN: Honestly, it's pretty broad. Not specific. In fact, the Trump Foundation widely reported as giving money to the Clinton Foundation. But also $100,000 to Citizens United Foundation. That's the conservative political group whose president just joined Trump's campaign.
For two years, listen to this Anderson, the Trump Foundation gave liberally to the Palm Beach Police Foundation and the group holds its policeman ball at Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort, there's a picture of Trump and his wife, Meliana at the ball in 2011. But get this Trump's Mar-a-Lago actually charged the police foundation for using the ballroom. And it wasn't a small amount, the tax record show the police foundation paid Trump within $500,000 for just 2 balls held at the club.
COOPER: We have two foundations in the presidential race, both seem to take in money from business, friends, other wealthy donors, spend the money as they wish. How does Trump's foundation compare with the Clinton's in terms of scope?
[20:55:09] GRIFFIN: It's very hard to compare the two and this is wild. In this case, the Clinton Foundation is huge compared to Trump's. The Donald Trump Foundation in 2014, Anderson, had $1.3 million in the bank. The Clinton Foundation had $332 million. The Clintons raise money for targeted projects, they use partnerships along with the Clinton Foundation staff to actually carry out the projects and the Clinton Foundation has a staff. A paid staff that works on many different projects and also a staff to run the organization. Trump's is so small it doesn't have a staff. There's no salaries paid.
COOPER: So how does Trump's Foundation compare to other charities?
GRIFFIN: Well, what is different is the volume. It's just not a big foundation. It doesn't do a lot of work. The Trump campaign did get back to us tonight, Anderson, saying all these questions about Trump's Foundations are inaccurate. Here's what the statement reads. It says "Mr. Trump, like Pence said has donated tens of millions of dollars through charities through his foundation and otherwise. In addition, friends of Mr. Trump has generously donated to his foundation." Goes on to say that "Trump additionally makes regular personal contributions to charities and causes of his choosing outside the foundation."
Here is the problem. We can't really found much proof of that. I know he gave $1 million to the Marine Corps Veterans Foundation earlier this year after that vet event, but that was pretty much under pressure. But outside of that we can't find any details.
COOPER: That's obviously something I guess in the tax returns. If we saw tax returns, there would be no indications of that.
GRIFFIN: Every single one of them would be listed. So if Mr. Trump wants to clear this up which we've asked the campaign again tonight, let's clear it up, let's see where the donations are, that would be in his tax return, Anderson, yes.
COOPER: Actually just point out again those returns according to his own attorneys from 2002 to 2008 are no longer under audit. And yet they have not be released. Drew Griffin, thanks very much.
In the next hour of "360" my full interview short time ago, the top of the last hour with Hillary Clinton about her health, how she says she's feeling tonight, how she defended herself when asked why she didn't disclose earlier she had pneumonia. All of that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
