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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Feds File Four Charges Against Bombing Suspect; Complaint: Suspect Bought Bomb Components on eBay; Sources: Bush 41 Says He Will Vote for Clinton; Report: Trump Used Charity Money To Settle Lawsuits; Trump's Core Support: White, Working-Class Voters; Trump: Afghanistan "Safer Than Some Of Our Inner Cities". Aired 8-9p ET

Aired September 20, 2016 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:24] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening.

We begin tonight with breaking news.

Federal prosecutors have just filed four criminal charges against a man suspected of planting bombs in New York and New Jersey, including a weapons mass destruction charge. And we're just starting to get more pieces of the puzzle, including how the suspect allegedly gathered the components for the bombs. The suspect is still in a hospital in Newark after yesterday's shootout with police.

We're also getting new details about who the suspect is, where he traveled and his turbulence, sometimes violence home life. More on that in a moment.

First, Jim Sciutto has the latest on the investigation.

The new details, what did you learn?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, really some remarkable details in this federal complaint. For one, he bought many of the components on eBay, shipping them to an address in New Jersey.

But as recently as two days before the attack, he was testing out these explosive devices, what looked like a cylindrical explosive device, filming it on a relatives cell phone and then another one-half buried in a backyard, laughing, himself seen in the frame of the video laughing as he made this test, raising reasonable questions as to whether someone should have seen or heard him do this.

This as the FBI revealing that he was indeed on their radar screen two years ago, at least questions of his terror involvement dismissed at the time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO (voice-over): Tonight, U.S. officials tell CNN the FBI interviewed the father of the suspect in 2014, after a violent domestic dispute led to a tip alleging the father was calling his son a terrorist. After the father then down played the accusation, the FBI ultimately concluded it was a domestic matter.

Today, the suspect's father told CNN more about the violent altercation.

MOHAMMAD RAHAMI, SUSPECT'S FATHER: Now, he's a -- he's a terrorist, I say OK.

REPORTER: Why did you call the FBI two years ago?

RAHAMI: He doing bad.

REPORTER: What is he doing bad?

RAHAMI: He stabbed my son. He hit my wife. And I put him to jail two years ago.

SCIUTTO: Investigators are now attempting to question the suspect, though police say he still isn't talking. One urgent question, did he have help in carrying out the alleged attacks?

(on camera): Do you still believe that he acted alone with these attacks and attempted attacks?

COMMISSIONER JAMES O'NEILL, NYPD: Well, Jim, it's very early on in the investigation. So, as we move through this we're going to determine who the acquaintances were, family, friends, go through the social media, see if he had any phones. We'll go through all that to make that determination.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): Pointing to possible inspirations for the attack, a notebook the suspect was carrying when captured, referenced American AQAP leader Anwar al-Awlaki, killed in 2011 by a U.S. drone strike. It also contained references to the Boston marathon bombers.

Investigators are now scrutinizing the suspect's travels to Afghanistan and Pakistan where he married and had a child and spent time in areas with a heavy Taliban presence. This to determine if he was radicalize overseas. The Afghan Taliban has publicly denied any involvement in the bombings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officials are trying to determine if he had help in this endeavor. It would have taken some time to get all of the materials to put these bombs together.

SCIUTTO: The explosive devices themselves hold clues a well. The devices were made with easy-to-obtain ingredients and with recipes that are accessible online. But those materials, considered by experts to be a high explosive could have created a blast even bigger than was seen at the deadly Boston marathon bombings.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Jim, what did the FBI have to say about the fact that the father called them years ago?

SCIUTTO: This is their answer. They said they made an assessment at the time. They conducted multiple interviews, they conferred with other law enforcement agencies. They checked their databases and made a conclusion that at the time two years ago, he had no established ties to terrorism groups.

These are judgment calls they have to make. They cannot predict what someone will do. They can only make decision as to who is an immediate threat. Two years ago, that was their decision. Of course, two years later, just behind me here, he did attempt to carry out a terror attack.

COOPER: All right. Jim Sciutto -- Jim, thanks for those details. The new details that we've been getting about the suspect, his relationships, his family life, they're painting certainly a troubling picture to say the least.

Our justice correspondent Pamela Brown joins me now.

So, what do you know about the suspect's wife?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we learned that the suspect met his wife when he was traveling overseas. Her name is Asia Rahami.

[20:05:02] And they married in 2011. He put in an application for her to come to the U.S. It was approved.

There were some issues they run into for her coming to the U.S. with her visa and passport. She became pregnant. But eventually, we're told by U.S. officials that she did come to the United States but she left sometime before the bombs were placed by her husband.

Now, we're being told by U.S. officials, there's no indication she fled this early stage in the investigation. In fact, we know U.S. officials and the United Arab Emirates have been speaking to her and she has been cooperating, giving critical information. She has not been accused of any wrongdoing. But, of course, she's someone that officials want to learn from about her husband, why he did something like this and what she may have known, Anderson.

COOPER: And when the suspect returned to the U.S. after traveling to Afghanistan, Pakistan, we know he was taken to secondary screening. Was any further action taken after that?

BROWN: So, we learned from U.S. officials that Customs and Border Protection actually enter the information they received in the secondary screening into a database that's shared by law enforcement agencies. And in addition, Anderson, were told that CBP notified law enforcement agencies, including the FBI, about Rahami, given where he traveled to these high risk areas and given the fact that he spent a year in Pakistan and had been there previously.

I'm told by law enforcement officials he was in a batch of people. So, there was a list of names. He was one of them. He wasn't singled out and that these notifications are pretty common.

But we're told, Anderson, that the FBI was notified about him just a few months before the inquiry was opened up in August of 2014. Yet he was never interviewed.

So, all of this is really under review right now -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Pamela, thanks for the details.

Joining me now, CNN counterterrorism analyst and former FBI and CIA senior official, Philip Mudd, CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank, and CNN national security analyst and former U.S. assistant secretary for Homeland Security, Juliette Kayyem.

Phil, you know, a layman looking at this says, wait a minute. The dad called the FBI, said my son's a terrorist. We know he traveled in Afghanistan, Pakistan. Spent a year or so in Pakistan. In Quetta no less, headquarters of Taliban, believed to where Mullah Omar was for all that time.

And yet -- you know, and was blowing up stuff in his backyard on video and yet they didn't put the pieces together.

Is it a mistake on their part? Or is -- what -- I mean, you know what is like to make this threat assessment. What happened?

PHIL MUDD, FORMER SENIOR OFFICIAL, FBI AND CIA: We're look at this in the wrong direction. We take one case and say, are there things that should have been suspicious? Of course, there are.

Let's go the other direction. The direction I lived in. You take a sea of information, a dad calls and says he's concerned about his kid. He claims he told the feds his kid was a terrorist. That's what he says. That's not what we know happened two years ago.

That kid travelled to Afghanistan, how would you know he traveled to Quetta, a hotbed of terrorist activity? He doesn't have to declare when he returns to country.

So, let's take those facts. A dad calls and says he's concerned about a kid and the kid travelled to Pakistan. Three hundred and thirty million people in this country, 2 million plus traveling overseas every month. You cannot take that information, Anderson, and say, this should leave me to develop a further investigation. Too many people, too many problems.

I think people are taking a case and saying we should have spent on it without thinking about how you boil down notion to get to a case.

COOPER: You are essentially doing triage with all the variety of cases --

MUDD: Correct.

COOPER: I mean, there are cases in every in this state in this country going on right now, or investigations going on. There's just -- you got to do triage here.

MUDD: That's right. If you were to take a physician and say there are 500 patients in the emergency room, and sure that if you succeed with 499, that the last one doesn't die, you would say that is a good success rate.

With the FBI you say take 500 suspects and ensure the last one doesn't succeed an attack. That is not a bar that you can meet. You are looking at this case saying, his dad says "I'm concerned", saying he traveled. You cannot investigate every one of those individuals.

One last point, Anderson. If you were to go court in the United States to look at that individual's e-mail, and to look at the email, you need a court order. You can't do this as a FBI alone. You know what the court would say? You have got to be kidding me.

COOPER: Not enough information.

MUDD: Not even close to enough information.

COOPER: Paul, the prosecutor is alleging this guy bought some of the components on eBay. I mean, that's --

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: He bought some of the components on eBay, including citric acid, which is a component of HMTD, which is believed to be the detonator in this device. But stunning new details from this complaint, confirming our reporting on your show last night about the power of this device. Confirming --

COOPER: The kind of explosive was particularly powerful.

CRUICKSHANK: Powerful. It was high explosive and some details giving an idea of just how powerful 400 feet away, windows were shattering up to three stories, 650 meters of -- feet, of fragmentation. This was a very, very powerful device. It propelled a heavy duty metal dumpster it placed inside, 120 feet across the road.

[20:10:06] If it had not been placed inside that dumpster, it could have been a lot, lot, lot more deadly. Experts believe that contained some of the force of the blast. We don't know whether he decided to place it in the dumpster for some reason or perhaps a passerby thought it was some litter and put it in there, we don't know which is the case at this point.

But this was a very powerful device. HMTD, the detonating substance used, very, very tricky to make. Very few cases in the West of Islamist terrorists who managed to do that without getting some training overseas. Very worrying new details.

This device produced the most powerful blast in an Islamist terrorist plot on the United States since the World Trade Center attacks of 1993. This is very --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: The original World Trade Center attacks.

CRUICKSHANK: If this guy put it on subways or something, we could have seen dozens and dozens and dozens of people killed in New York.

COOPER: Juliette, I mean, you know, to Phil's point, the fact was the guy at some point had been on the FBI's radar. His father had called him a terrorist. The FBI apparently knew that, although we haven't heard that directly from them.

I mean, it apparently was tangled up in a domestic dispute.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, FORMER U.S. ASST. SECY. FOR HOMELAND SECURITY: Yes.

COOPER: Do you think -- I mean, do you agree with Phil? There's just so many cases and just one doesn't rise to the surface at the time?

KAYYEM: Yes, I think in some way the family dispute may have led the FBI to believe that they were -- the FBI was getting entangled with a very complicated family and you look at the family's interactions amongst themselves. This was a family under tremendous stress and a lot of hostility.

I think -- and so I agree with Phil. We also don't know what exactly was said. We're hearing this from the father. We know I all of these cases the father or the mother or someone else tries to sort of say, I tried do something. And often, that doesn't end up being true.

I think where there might have been a trigger moment, a moment in which something different could have happened, because remember that was two years ago, was in the purchases.

Now, Phil and I know there is a lot more monitoring of purchases around the country than people, might believe or think of materials that might be used for bombs or violence. Whether it's, you know, raw materials or instruments of violence or whatever else. And I'm curious whether and in the investigation will find out, to what extent anything might have been triggered by the eBay purchases or the fact they were through third party vendors, which is what eBay essentially is. There was no eBay store, whether they weren't track. And that might be a loophole we might begin to think about closing.

COOPER: You know, the fact that -- I mean, in this federal complaint we learned there is video showing the guy in the words of the federal complaint igniting incendiary material in a backyard. There's laughter in the background.

It does kind of raise questions about where and how the suspect was allegedly building this device and who else knew about it and/or helped him here or overseas with just the training of how do it.

MUDD: I think that's right. This is a snapshot of the evolution of terror.

In 2001, 2002 when I was at the CIA, I would have said it is the fed's responsibility to find these guys. We look at communications for example back then of al Qaeda. We look at human sources going into al Qaeda and Afghanistan or Pakistan, and we might be able to say in Los Angeles or New York or Washington, there is an al Qaeda plot moving into America.

Today, when we don't have a central group that is organized this stuff, when we have individual whose self radicalize, the evolution of terror means that a family member, a friend has too call the feds in contrast to 15 years ago and say, I saw something in the backyard. My kid is talking about something that is uncomfortable. He's talking about violence.

The game is really shifted from the fed's responsibility to identify these people to local folks who are family members saying, the guy's experimenting with explosive devices and I'm uncomfortable. That's the question I have. Who knew what, when?

COOPER: Yes. Phil Mudd, Paul Cruickshank, Juliette Kayyem, thanks.

Just ahead, more breaking news: sources close to former President George H.W. Bush say he told a roomful of people that he's voting for Hillary Clinton in the November. It's a new chapter in a complicated, long running political drama between the Bushes and the Clintons.

Plus, new reporting tonight on how Donald Trump used charity money to settle lawsuits against him, his own charity, the Donald Trump Foundation, more than a quarter of a million dollars. The question is, did he violate any laws? We'll look at that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:18:13] COOPER: There's more breaking news.

CNN has confirmed that former President George H.W. Bush has said he's going vote for Hillary Clinton in November. He made the comment last night during what he believed was a private gathering apparently of board members of the bipartisan Points of Life Foundation. His remark went public, though.

Brianna Keilar joins me now with details.

What are you learning, Brianna?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It is really quite unprecedented, Anderson. We've learned about this event. There were about 40 people there, according to multiple sources. And George H.W. Bush at his foundation event talking to board members, was talking specifically to Kathleen Kennedy Townsend but there were other people around.

And he told her that he was planning to vote for Hillary Clinton, according to multiple people who heard. This came to light after Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, the daughter of Bobby Kennedy, the former lieutenant governor of Maryland, posted this on her Facebook page. Btu this is an extraordinary rebuke of Donald Trump as the Republican nominee.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(CROWD CHANTING)

KEILAR (voice-over): Donald Trump out on the trail in North Carolina, slamming Hillary Clinton for quoting George W. Bush's former CIA director. Michael Hayden called Trump a recruiting sergeant for ISIS. DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It demonstrates a level of

ignorance about the terror threat that really is disqualifying for a person seeking the presidency. When she says my opposition to radical Islamic terror provides aid and comfort to the enemy, we know that Hillary Clinton has once again demonstrated that she's really unfit for office.

KEILAR: As Clinton takes a break from the campaign trail to get ready for the first presidential debate, Trump is taunting her about her health, saying on Twitter, "Hillary Clinton is taking the day off again. She needs to rest. Sleep well Hillary, see you at the debate."

[20:20:01] With less than a week to go until the nominees share the stage, we're getting a preview to Trump's approach.

TRUMP: I mean, I can talk about a record which is a disaster. I can talk about all she's done to help ISIS --

BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I expect you'll do that anyway, though, right?

TRUMP: -- become the terror that they become. And I will be doing that. So, I mean, we're going to go back and forth. And she's got a lot of baggage.

KEILAR: But what about personal attacks? He wouldn't rule them out.

TRUMP: If she treats me with respect. I will treat her with respect. It really depends.

KEILAR: Clinton is preparing for the debate to get contentious, telling "The Steve Harvey Show" she's not worried about it.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINE: I've been at this, and, you know, I understand it's a contact sport. But I'm not going to take what he says about everybody else, you know, his attacks on African- Americans and immigrants and Muslims and women and people with disabilities.

STEVE HARVEY, STEVE HARVEY MORNING SHOW: Yes, there you go. There you go.

CLINTON: It's just something we cannot tolerate.

KEILAR: As the candidates gear up for their showdown, Trump's son is having one of his own with a candy company. Donald Trump Jr. tweeting this image of a bowl of Skittles with the caption, "If I had a bowl of Skittles and I told you just three would kill you, would you take a handful? That's our Syrian refugee problem."

The comparison sparked outrage and a rebuke from Mars USA, the parent company of Skittles, which tweeted, "Skittles are candy. Refugees are people. We don't feel it's an appropriate analogy."

And there's more scrutiny today for Trump's foundation. "The Washington Post" reporting the charitable organization spent more than a quarter million dollars to settle lawsuits against Trump's business interests, a possible violation of the country's tax laws.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Brianna joins us.

I just want to correct something. I think I had said that former President George H.W. Bush told a roomful of people. You were saying there were 40 people in the room, but it's clear how many people in the room actually heard him. This was done on a receiving line where he apparently said this to Kathleen Kennedy Townsend. That's correct, right?

KEILAR: That's right. He did though seem to say it in earshot of many people.

COOPER: OK.

KEILAR: So, we don't know exactly how many, but certainly, it was more than a couple.

COOPER: OK. I just like to be clear. I misspoke. I shouldn't have said a roomful of people, and I don't know exactly how many heard it.

Secretary Clinton is off the campaign trail today. Is she expected back tomorrow?

KEILAR: She is. So, she's been spending hours looking at tape of Donald Trump. But she's going to be on the campaign trail tomorrow. She's in battleground Florida.

She'll be giving an economic speech in Orlando. The economy really the issue, Anderson, that her campaign thinks is going to be so important in this election. But it is also interesting to note that she's going to be talking about what she calls an inclusive economy. She'll be focused on disabled Americans and other groups of Americans whose suffer higher unemployment rates than the general population.

COOPER: All right. Brianna thanks very much.

Let's talk about it with our panel.

Joining me now is CNN anchor of "INSIDE POLITICS" and chief national correspondent, John King. Also, CNN political analyst and "USA Today" columnist, Kirsten Powers.

John, is there a chance former President Bush actually wanted this leak? I mean, in this day and age, do you really tell several people something or one person something in front of other people and not expect it won't get out?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Just between you and me, Anderson?

Look, people around the former president say this was a private conversation. He meant it to be a private conversation. I believe Kathleen Kennedy Townsend has taken down the post, but let's be real here.

Number one, George H.W. Bush, he may not be at the top of his game anymore, but he hasn't lost his game. He's a former CIA director, in addition to being a former president. He knows how to play, if you will, off the field. And remember the Bush family's contempt.

Donald Trump mocked Jeb Bush during the debate. He repeatedly ridiculed George W. Bush during the debates, and his often contradictory statements about the Iraq war, he has said that he thinks he wishes the first Iraq war was finished right. That was George H.W. Bush's war.

There's no -- the Bush family is incredibly loyal. If you know the family, you know Jeb's not for Trump, you know George W. Bush is not for Trump. And guess what? Neither is H.W. Bush. I think he kind of knew this would happen.

COOPER: Kirsten, how much do you think this could actually affect things? Could it nudge establishment Republicans that won't vote for Donald Trump to vote for Clinton? Is it just shy of an endorsement from a former -- I mean, you could say it's shy of an endorsement from a former Republican president, a leader of the Republican Party. Formerly.

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. Well, obviously, it's a big deal when you have -- I mean, this is unprecedented to have a former president from the other party endorsing the opposing party.

But I would tend to think that any establishment Republican who's not voting for Donald Trump has probably made up their mind at this point. I know the Clinton campaign is definitely trying to target Republicans with an ad using, you know, Mitt Romney and Kelly Ayotte and different Republicans speaking against Trump.

But ultimately, I don't think this is what's going to particularly move voters. I think if you're a Trump supporter or leaning towards Trump, you're going to look at this and you're going to say, of course, this is what happens. This is what the establishment does. The establishment sticks together.

And Hillary is the establishment and the Bushes are the establishment and they're all friends and we all know that Bill Clinton is friends with him and Bill Clinton is friends with W.

[20:25:04] And so, I'd be surprised if it makes a huge difference in the race.

COOPER: John, also, I mean, you could say that for liberals, for maybe some Bernie Sanders supporters, hearing that former President Bush is supporting Secretary Clinton, that may not be, you know, top of their list of endorsements they want to be following.

KING: I don't think -- I don't think it is going to drive a lot of votes either way. I do there are some Republicans who can't vote for Donald Trump, who don't think they can vote for a Clinton who might be in the Gary Johnson field, who might be thinking about sitting it out, Anderson. I think maybe there's a small group of people out there.

I just -- I don't think in this campaign, what have we learned? You know, a lot -- people aren't following the leader so much. I don't think establishment so much matter.

H.W. Bush has largely stayed out of politics for a long time. I think it is embarrassing if you are Donald Trump to have this happen, but he's been running against the establishment all along, so it can't be viewed as a surprise.

COOPER: Also, you know, both candidates are clearly trying to position themselves as better to deal with the threat from terrorism. Do you see, John, either's handling of this moment actually attracting new voters? Or does it reinforce reasons why people support or oppose them?

KING: I think it mostly reinforces what they have shown us in the campaign. Trump tends to be instinctive and muscular and send a strong signal. Hillary Clinton tends to say, hey, well, let's gather the facts and let's build coalitions and deal with the problem. She says she'll be tough as well. But she's not as quick to throw a punch back if you will.

I do think, though, Anderson, because the attack is so fresh, it will get -- if you add up the third party candidates and undecided, it's about 20 percent of the electorate, depending on which poll or which state you're looking at. I do think there are some people out there with something like this front and center. We'll watch them over the next couple of days, but more importantly, we'll watch when they are shoulder to shoulder, when they're just a few feet apart from each other on Monday night and maybe close their eyes and say, OK, who do I see in the Oval Office if that moment happens next year, not now?

KING: Kirsten, do you agree with that, that these debates could be defining?

POWER: Yes, I think the debates are definitely important. And, look, Hillary has typically polled better on this issue than Trump on this issue, not by huge margins but still she is the preferred person when it comes to handling terrorism.

So, you know, I think it is an issue also in terms of enthusiasm, because if you look at the Quinnipiac Poll, 70 percent of Trump are concerned bout terrorist attack harming them or their families. Contrast that with Hillary voters, 30 percent are concerned about that. So, you can see a really big difference in terms of how this animates both sides.

COOPER: Kirsten Powers, John King, thank you.

Coming up more breaking news: new allegations against the Trump Foundation. That Donald Trump actually used charity money to settle lawsuits against his businesses. We'll have details on that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:31:47] COOPER: Tonight there is even more reporting on allegations surrounding the Trump Foundation. Namely that Donald Trump took money intend forward charity donations and used it to settle lawsuits against his own businesses. According to the "Washington Post" this happened to the tune of $258,000.

The Trump Foundation was already under scrutiny because the allegation that Trump used the foundation to funnel other people's money not his own to other organizations. But this new report says he actually wrote checks from his charitable foundation to settle lawsuits from his for profit businesses.

David Fahrenthold of the "Washington Post" broke the story, he joins me now. So of all things reported about the Trump Foundation, this is pretty surprising. I mean can you explain exactly what Donald Trump was using money from a foundation to pay off?

DAVID FAHRENTHOLD, WASHINGTON POST REPORTER: Sure. So the money in his foundation was given by other people to Donald Trump. It belongs in the charity. It can only be used to do charitable work. But instead we have these two cases where Trump's businesses, one a club in Florida, the other a golf course in New York they got in legal trouble and they made settlements to get out of that legal trouble as part of the settlements, the clubs, the businesses agreed to make donations to charity. What Trump did was then take out money out of this foundation and use that to pay off those obligations.

So they neither is a -- his resort or his gold club had actually make any donations.

COOPER: And in my understanding in the case of I think it was Mar-a- Lago, the club in Florida. There were a bunch of -- was it fines, or liens or something that the local community, that he was supposed to pay but the local community agreed to get rid of those if he made this donation.

FAHRENTHOLD: That's right, Trump had put p a gigantic flag poll that was like 30 feet too tall for the town's code. And so after he fight -- with fought with the town for while, he build up $120,000 of unpaid fines for his club.

So in the court settlement, the town said look, we're not going make you pay the $120,000, but you the club have to make this $100,000 donation to a particular veterans charity. And that's the chair -- the donation that Trump paid off with his foundation, the golf club didn't actually pay anything.

COOPER: And is that OK under the law? I mean is it ethical?

FAHRENTHOLD: The law says that there is a bar against something called self dealing. That is, if you are the head of a foundation you can't take the money out of the foundation and use to it buy things for yourself or things that benefit your businesses.

So people I've talked to said this is a pretty clear case where Trump took the money out of his charity and did a thing that saved his own business money.

COOPER: So what might happen? I mean he did take up the -- if somebody looks at this, does he potentially pay a fine or?

FAHRENTHOLD: The penalties could include Trump may have to give the money back that the foundation paid on his behalf, like he have to reimburse the money to the foundation. He would also pay penalty taxes. He could pay penalty taxes for having filed a false IRS return because he told the IRS he had not engaged in acts of self dealing. He could even have his charity's non profit status taken away.

COOPER: The New York State Attorney General Eric Schneiderman has open investigation in his foundation. Do we know if he's going to be looking at these specific transactions or is he looking stuff in New York?

FAHRENTHOLD: Well, since the Trump Foundation is head quartered in New York all of these attractions are under his purview. And I think he will be looking at these transactions.

COOPER: Is there any kind of timeline do we know for this investigation? I mean is there any chance that it will be done before the election? Because obviously Trump's supporters say look, this is politically motivated.

[20:35:00] FAHRENTHOLD: I don't have a time, I talk to them yesterday and didn't get a comment from them. I imagine they find a work on a fast but I don't know if they'll before election.

COOPER: Last time you were on the program you are trying to track down a 6-foot tall painting of Donald Trump that he bought with foundation funds, and I understand he bought a second portrait of himself using money from the foundation. I saw just a little while, you tweeted out a picture apparently of that portrait from trip advisor, is that right?

FAHRENTHOLD: That's right. Trump bought this painting with $10,000 with the charity money in 2014. And since the charity bought it, it has to be use for charity purposes. It can just hang on the wall in Donald Trump's club. Yet it is hanging on the wall in Donald Trump's club apparently, trip advisor a user at Trump's dural golf resort outside Miami took that picture where apparently the tore (ph) bought was charity money is hanging.

COOPE: David Fahrenthold, thanks very much. Appreciate having you on again.

FAHRENTHOLD: Thank you.

COOPER: Up next, the American white working class, they are the core of Donald Trump's support. But what is driving their decision to support him over Hillary Clinton? Some answers, next

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: We are just six days away from the first 2016 presidential debate. Seven weeks from today, America vote. Where Donald Trump draw his strength is from white non-college graduates that make up 63 percent of Trump supporters according to a recent CNN/ORC poll.

[20:40:11] For with that voting block is shrinking. Back in 1984, 62 percent of voters were whites with no college. Four years ago in the last presidential race, they only made up 36 percent of voters. The demographics in America are clearly changing and with those changes come a lot of assumptions made about the white working class.

But we want to get past the assumptions to get some real insight information that could make a difference in this election. So we teamed up with the Kaiser Family Foundation for an in-depth survey. What we found both confirmed and challenged frankly a lot of conventional wisdom.

One of the findings, 47 percent of white working class believe America's best days are behind us. Now take that information consider Trump's repeated slogan, "Make America Great Again." You can see one reason perhaps why this voted block is the core of Donald Trump's support.

John King joins us again with more results from this survey. We talked a lot John over the course of the campaign about the importance of the white working class and now we have this detail look at what drives their politics. Can you take us through what the survey found.

JOHN KING, CNN INSIDE POLITICS ANCHOR: At its core Anderson, what drives the politics the white working class is economic anxiety and feeling left out. Feeling left out of the economy and feeling ignored by government.

Look at this. Will your children be worse off? Essentially the American dream question. Will your children be worse off than you, 50 percent of the white working class thinks the answer to that is yes, that their children will be worse off than they are. And as you can see and the black works class is 43 percent. The white college graduates, Latino working class. This is a much higher number than these other subsets.

Economically they are pessimistic about what comes down the road for themselves but importantly for their children. Also they don't think government understands this problem and understands them. How well does government represent your views? The percentage saying not at all well. Look at this, 56 percent. Much higher than these other groups. Nearly 6 in 10 members of the white working class say my government doesn't get me. It doesn't represent my needs and my concerns. You can understand why that outsider like Donald Trump would appeal to somebody like that.

Economics again. What does trade -- what do trade agreements do here? What impact do they have? Only 5 percent of the white working class say international trade agreements create jobs in the United States, that's what the president says, that's what Hillary Clinton said for a long time in her political career. They agree with Donald Trump, 69 percent of the white working class says trade agreements bleed jobs from the United States. Only 21 percent say they make no difference at all.

Now remember that 70 percent number just about, 69 percent there shouldn't surprise you then. Of those considering voting for Donald Trump, members of the white working class, 79 percent Anderson, so nearly 8 in 10 members of the white working class are say I'm thinking about voting for Donald Trump agree the trade agreements cost U.S. jobs. Among the white working class they said a not thinking Trump, still a pretty high number 61 percent, but 8 in 10 think is of white working class voters who are thinking about voting for Trump, they are with him on this. They think NAFTA should be ripped up like Donald Trump promises.

COOPER: What about immigration more specifically Trump's calls to be tougher about letting Muslims into the United States?

KING: No question, that same anxiety and now security anxiety factors in. First more broadly this is just the white working class. Immigrants today burden the country or strengthen the country nearly half 47 percent of the white working class say immigrants are a burden on the country today. Only 40 percent and we don't have the other groups up here but this is higher, this 47 percent had say this is a burden that's higher than other groups, especially white college- educated voters.

Now, the terrorism question you asked. Immigrants from Muslim countries, do they increase the terror risk, 63 percent, more than 6 in 10 of the white working class in this country think yes. Muslim immigrants or immigrants from Muslim courtiers increase the terror risk and probably no surprise you can make this connection. 82 percent of white working class voters considering voting for Donald Trump agree that immigrants from Muslim countries increase the terror risk among those not considering Trump, drops to 37 percent. So there's no question this big group they agree when I hear Donald Trump say we have to do something about it. There something going on, we got maybe a temporary Muslim ban, they agree Anderson.

COOPER: Do the numbers back up the idea that this group t white working class is the basic Trump support?

KING: Yes. And overwhelmingly so. You just mentioned there will be about 40 percent of the electorate when we get to the election, it's down from 20 or years ago, but 60 percent of white working class voters are considering voting for Donald Trump. Look at that 6 in 10 white working class voters, say I'm going think about voting for Donald Trump. That's a stunning number, but now look at this number, 68 percent say they will not consider voting for Hillary Clinton. So she has a huge problem with the white working class. Only 3 in 10 white working class voters will leave and give her a chance Anderson, that's pretty overwhelming.

COOPER: Yeah, fascinating. John stay with us. I want to bring back the panel. A lot to discuss. Angela Rye is here, former executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus. Also Clinton supporter, Maria Cardona and Trump supporter Jeffrey Lord and Andre Bauer.

Maria, I mean you look at that number only 29 percent of white working class would consider voting for Hillary Clinton in battleground states like Pennsylvania and Ohio, that's a huge issue. Does she lose if she can't get that number up?

MARIA CARDONA, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Well, I think first of all that number is not really all that surprising, we knew that she had a big issue with working class voters. Her campaign knows that she knows it.

[20:45:03] It's not a group that she's giving up on however. She has focused her policies frankly. Her policies will help white working class voters when she talks about doing the biggest jobs investment since World War II. That is strictly focussed on white working class voters.

COOPER: But if number doesn't -- if the number doesn't rise can she win?

CARDONA: Yeah, I actually do think she can win. That's not how she wants to win, because she wants to be able to get as many voters in general, right as possible. But President Obama didn't do well with white working class either. So ...

COOPER: So if hearing (ph) her message for them why isn't the message resonating is this.

CARDONA: Well, because I think unfortunately what Donald Trump is doing, we've seen from the very beginning that his message does resonate for all of the reasons that we saw. He is focused on playing to the fears of this electorate. And there is no question that there is anxiety there it is something that Hillary Clinton brings up all the time. That they do feel left out. That we have to talk to them about the policies that will help them.

She focuses on trying to bring them together along with the rest of the country whereas Donald Trump is somebody who focuses on their fears and that's not leadership.

COOPER: Jeffrey one of the biggest thing I found surprising this poll 8 in 10 white working class voters are actually satisfied with their lives and yet the majority of them believe their kids are not going to have ...

JEFFREY LORD, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Right.

COOPER: ... as good a life.

LORD: I think that is very typical. And where this comes to play. As you know, I'm a Pennsylvanian. When you go to places like Altoona and Johnstown and Williamsport and Southwestern Pennsylvania. When you hear these people talk about Hillary Clinton saying she's going to shutdown for instance Southwestern Pennsylvania.

Coal mining jobs. Well what is that mean not just for them but could their kids, I mean if they're trying to provide an education for their kids or they're trying to do various things to help their kids down the path (ph), they're looking at this and saying she's shutting off their future.

COOPER: And John, I mean the 1950s, the '60s, the '70s Democratic Party was the party of the white working class. Why the shift to Republicans generally in Trump specifically?

KING: How much time you got Anderson, that you go back through this and look at it play out. We can talk about the civil rights movement and the civil rights act. We can talk about the Democrats becoming known as the party of tax and spend and the Republicans taking advantage to them. Republican the so called southern strategy that's to take white voters away from a Democratic Party that the Republicans argue with beholden to minority interest.

You can talk about even the election more recently of the first African-American president. You want to talk about Trump. Remember no longer but until Friday a champion of the birther movement and he play that's not -- I'm not saying all Trump supporters agree with him on that. But there is a long list. We could spend an hour or two on the Democratic Party's decline among the white working class voters. Including the shrinking percent as Americans who have long for labor unions, who are more like with the Democratic Party.

So there are a number of reasons but there is no doubt about it that the shifts in white working class now favor Trump and they are the backbone especially in those rust belt states. He needs them to turn out and in huge numbers.

COOPER: Yeah. I want to talk to Andre and Angela and the rest of our panel but we got to take a quick break.

We'll take a look also what Donald Trump said today in North Carolina, including comparing African-American communities and Afghanistan, we'll let you decide what to make of that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:51:44] COOPER: Hillary Clinton spent the day on debate prep, while Donald Trump campaigned in North Carolina, where he used the terror attacks in New Jersey and New York to bolster his immigration policy. He also renewed his outreach to African-Americans, with the same kind of message that's drawn fire in the past, but kind of on steroids. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to rebuild our inner cities, because our African-American communities are absolutely in the worst shape that they've ever been in before, ever, ever, ever. You take a look at the inner cities, you get no education. You get no jobs, you get shot walking down the street. They're worse. I mean, honestly, places like Afghanistan are safer than some of our inner cities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: And back with the panel. Angela, I mean when you hear Donald Trump say that African-American communities are quote and I want to get this right, "In the worst shape they have ever been before, ever, ever, ever," Do you know any African-American who would agree that statement? I mean given the history of the United States.

ANGELA RYE, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Probably a Trump supporter. And for what it's worth, there are a few that appear on this network. I think the challenge I have is, when we talk about they have no education, I wonder where he went to school. I wonder what textbook he had. I wonder why he never learned about slavery, the Atlantic Slave Trade. I wonder why he didn't learn about Jim Crow and segregation. I wonder if he knows about, you know, the soldiers who fought in the Korean War and World War II -- the World War I who came back here to communities that didn't accept them, because they were other.

And when we go full circle back to this poll you were just talking about, with white working class voters, this is an election that Donald Trump has made about otherism. And otherism is, frankly, racism. Where it is wrong to be different. He just compared black communities to Afghanistan and the timing of it is dangerous. We are talking about someone who just spent a year in Afghanistan and is a terrorist. A bomber.

So that type of connection to a community that I come out of is immensely frustrating, it's hurtful, and it's wrong.

COOPER: Andre, I mean Donald Trump has said, look, he'll never lie, you know, but to say that African-American communities are worse than they ever, ever ...

ANDRE BAUER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: And they probably are. They're probably less safe than they've ever been in the history of this country.

RYE: No! Andre, do you know about lynching?

BAUER: ... than they've ever been. And so, again ...

COOPER: Wait, wait, we're talking about -- wait we're talking about the ever in the United States. Slavery, segregation, I mean ...

BAUER: The death rate is probably higher now in those urban communities than it's ever been.

COOPER: Jeffrey Lord, do you believe that?

LORD: Well, certainly, what's going on in Chicago at the moment is not good.

COOPER: But African-American communities are worse than they've ever, ever, ever been?

LORD: I think when you've got the murder rate, you got in the city of Chicago? I mean what was the murder rate for African-Americans ...

COOPER: But when -- of the last person could not walk down the street ...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: ... in some communities in America, a black person could not walk down the street and look at a white person in the eye without having great risk to their life.

BAUER: But now they can't do it ...

(CROSSTALK)

[20:55:01] RYE: No, wait a minute! Wait a minute, you guys.

LORD: No, wait, wait, wait.

RYE: Wait a minute, I just have -- I just have to say this. Because Anderson just said something, as if it's past, right? That a black man couldn't look a white person in the eye. If we talk about Terence Crutcher, who is the black man who just lost his life, hands up with a police officer, one who supposed -- an entity that is supposed to protect and serve. It's not just black people who are

killing each other. And I want to be clear about this. White people kill each other, too. You kill people who you are in proximity to. That is just a fact.

LORD: Americans kill each other.

RYE: That's true. And so -- and you were just talking about black Americans. I'm telling you about an issue of excessive force and excessive violence with black people and men and women in uniform. That is also a problem. So I just think that you all -- I'm asking you now, as your friend, when we go off air, please utilize facts when you bring up these points about how dangerous ...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: But also -- but also let me just point out, I mean crime rates nationwide have gone down ...

RYE: Yes.

COOPER: ... you know, since the 1990s, during the crack epidemic. I mean, there are -- to say that it's worse than it has ever, ever, ever been is just factually incorrect.

LORD: Yeah. I mean, maybe he's exaggerating here some ...

RYE: Maybe?

LORD: But to make a point, to make a point, things are not satisfactory. It's not good enough that the city destroy (ph) in the shape that ...

COOPER: Right, but you can make that point without making up a fact.

LORD: Anderson, look, I mean I think we have to keep getting back to why -- I mean you started to brick this up, but left out one key thing. Jim Crow and slavery and all the things that got us here. Who was responsible?

RYE: Racism was responsible! I want to ...

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: Wait, Jeffrey, Jeffrey!

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: Excuse me! Anderson, Anderson doesn't like when we all talk at the same time, so let me respond to you, Jeffrey.

LORD: And then I will respond.

RYE: That's fine. It's up to him, he's the moderator. I guess what I would say to you is this. You continue to blame the Democratic Party for something that is a vestige of slavery in this country. It is called racism. We can continue ...

LORD: Is that racism for the Democratic Party.

RYE: Systemic oppressive racism for white people against people of color and that other that your candidate continues to prey on. We have to acknowledge what that is. Racism is bipartisan. It is a nonpartisan problem. Jeffrey, stop putting it at the feet ...

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: Wait, wait, wait, wait ...

COOPER: Let him respond.

LORD: When President Obama said just the other night to the Congressional Back Caucus ...

RYE: I was there.

LORD: OK, and he did he not say, if you don't -- meaning the black community vote for Hillary Clinton ...

RYE: That's not what he said.

LORD: What did he said?

RYE: He said if this community does not turn out in vote, this will be an insult to my legacy. And I'm happy to give you time.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: I want to bring John in here. Donald Trump only has 3 percent of the black vote according to the latest polling. If his message is, what the hell do you have to lose, if that's failing to resonate according to polls, how will this statement improve that standing? Or can it? KING: Well, as you listen to Angela speak, there's no question the Clinton campaign believes what Donald Trump says in this issue, forgive my language, but I think part of the problem is, but we should applaud. We should applaud any candidate that wants the Clinton community to compete for votes. So one of the problems we've had in American politics for the last 20-plus years is Republicans have not gone into the African community in a sustained way some have in a sustained way and competed.

However, you hear Angela, you hear from a lot of Democrats is Donald Trump use these issues as forgive the language that is black and white issues. And they're not. He didn't talk like Jeffrey just did. Donald Trump doesn't say, we have a huge problem in Chicago. I'd like to get to understand it better. I'd like to help if I'm president.

In Detroit, you had economic exodus of jobs. If I'm president, I would like to help. He talks about this best and worst and stark in this and Democrats abandoned you. And he also doesn't acknowledge, Anderson, in North Carolina, there is a thriving African-American middle class, in Maryland, in many places across the country. I don't want to over generalize. But in that state where the African-American vote is so key, look in the Charlotte area and Charlotte suburbs. Go up to the research triangle in Raleigh Durham, there are doctors and lawyers, and researchers and professionals who happen to be African- Americans and who are critical to the vote in that state, and some of them are open to Republicans on taxes and spending, smaller government issues, but it's the language he uses I think that gets him into trouble.

Again, we should applaud the effort, but I think he needs to spend more time in the community, because he'll learn the language better.

COOPER: We've got to take a break. We have much more ahead on tonight's breaking news, on more on politics also coming up. But we'll take a look at the charges federal investigators have filed against the suspect in the bombings in New York and New Jersey. The latest on that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)