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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump Calls Accusers Sick Liars; New Accuser's Message to Trump: Just Come Clean; Path to 270 Narrows for Trump; Clinton's Lead Surges; Trump Losing Big Among Women Voters; Clinton Campaign Cautiously Optimistic Ahead of Debate; Actress in 2005 Video Talks to CNN. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 14, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:07] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Thanks very much for joining us.
Two more women say Donald Trump made inappropriate sexual advances towards them. Their descriptions and what they say he did them echoing almost word for word what Trump was caught on tape boasting he could get away with because he's a star. That tape, of course, from 2005 came out exactly a week ago.
The actress you see at the end of it, Arianne Zucker, joins us tonight. And this hour, Kristin Anderson, one of the two women who came forward today joins me for her first television interview.
Also, Donald Trump's increasingly loud and take no prisoner's rebuttal is speaking tonight in Charlotte, North Carolina. We'll look at the way he's making his case and his decision for a second straight day to disparage the looks of his accusers with the implication that they're not attractive enough for him to notice.
More on all of it now from CNN's Jim Acosta.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No apologies and no admissions of guilt from Donald Trump who's still angrily denying he's ever sexually assaulted women.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I look at the television. I think it's a disgusting thing, and it's being pushed. They have no witnesses. There's nobody around. They just come out.
Some are doing it for probably a little fame. Phony accusers come out less than a month before one of the most important elections in the history of our country.
ACOSTA: But every day, it seems Trump faces more accusations. The latest, Summer Zervos who appeared at a news conference with Attorney Gloria Allred who say she was abused by the real estate tycoon after she was featured on Trump's hit TV show, "The Apprentice."
SUMMER ZERVOS, TRUMP ACCUSER, EX-"APPRENTICE" CONTESTANT: He came to me and started kissing me open mouthed as he was pulling me towards him. He put me in an embrace and I tried to push him away. I pushed his chest to put space between us and I said, "Come on man, get real." He repeated my words back to me, "get real", as he began thrusting his genitals.
ACOSTA: Another accuser, Kristin Anderson, tells "The Washington Post", Trump reached pushed up her skirt and groped her back in the '90s.
KRISTIN ANDERSON, TRUMP ACCUSER: He did touch my vagina through my underwear.
ACOSTA: Both women say they came forward after seeing Trump bragged about grabbing women's genitals at a hot mic moment caught on camera.
TRUMP: You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy.
ACOSTA: And after other women surface to share their stories of alleged abuse as Jessica Leeds did on "AC360".
COOPER: Did he actually kiss you?
JESSICA LEEDS, TRUMP: Yes, yes.
COOPER: On the face? On the lips?
LEEDS: Wherever he could find a landing spot, yes.
ANDERSON: After that I was like, OK, you know, what? Let me just back these girls up, you know? That's not OK.
ACOSTA: Trump says Anderson's account is false.
TRUMP: One came out recently, where I was sitting alone in some club. I really won't sit alone that much. Honestly folks. I don't think I sit alone -- I go in with groups of people -- I was sitting alone like this. And then I went wah. It's like unbelievable.
ACOSTA: And he casts doubts on Leeds' story by suggesting she wasn't attractive enough for him to assault her.
TRUMP: Oh I was with Donald Trump in 1980. I was sitting with him on an airplane. And he went after me on the plane. Yes, I'm going to go after you. Believe me, she would not be my first choice, that I can tell you.
ACOSTA: Trump's running mate Mike Pence says he has faith in the man at the top of the ticket.
GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump has asserted that all of these recent unsubstantiated allegations are categorically false and I do believe him.
ACOSTA: And Pence politely pushed back on First Lady Michelle Obama, who denounced Trump's behavior.
MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY: I can't believe I'm saying that a candidate for president of the United States has bragged about sexual assaulting women.
PENCE: I have a lot of respect for the first lady and the job that she's done for the American people over the last seven and a half years, but I don't understand the basis of her claim.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Jim Acosta joins us now.
Donald Trump, his vice presidential pick and members of his campaign promise evidence that they say refutes this allegations against him. Did they produce anything?
ACOSTA: Not much, Anderson. Just a statement officially from the campaign about the allegations made by Summer Zervos. We can put that up on screen.
It says, quote, "I vaguely remember Ms. Zervos as one of the many contestants on "The Apprentice" over the years. To be clear, I never met hear at a hotel or greeted her inappropriately a decade go. That is not who I am as a person and it is not how I conducted my life. In fact, Ms. Zervos continued to contact me for help, emailing my office on April 14th of this year, asking that I visit her restaurant in California."
And just a few moments ago, Anderson, Donald Trump said all of these allegations coming from these accusers are 100 percent false. He went on to make these claims that he's the victim of a grand conspiracy involving the Clinton campaign and the media.
Anderson, the only forces working against Donald Trump tonight were technical forces. His teleprompter broke. And so he's in and out speaking the first time we c can recall in a couple of months.
[20:05:01] Anderson, earlier this weekend he said he was unshackled. Without these teleprompters, he certainly is -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Jim Acosta -- Jim, thanks very much.
Again, it is seven days since the tape came out and at least eight women have come forward.
Kristin Anderson is a photographer. In the early '90s, she was a model. Her encounter with Donald Trump she says happened at a Manhattan nightclub. She says it lasted less than half a minute. The memories, she says, have lasted now half a lifetime. They came rushing back last Friday. "The Washington Post's" Karen Tumulty broke story.
Ms. Anderson joins us now for her first live television interview.
Kristin, thanks so much for being with us.
KRISTIN ANDERSON, TRUMP ACCUSER: Thanks.
COOPER: If you could first of all take me back to that night. What happened?
ANDERSON: I was sitting on the couch with my girlfriends.
COOPER: This is at a club.
ANDERSON: It was at a club. And I was talking to them. And next thing I know there is a hand up my skirt.
And I basically just pushed the hand away, turned and looked, got up off the couch. And we all moved.
It was very packed. There were people everywhere, as it was then. And I recognized the eyebrows right away.
And I turned to my girlfriends and I was like, "Who's this dude?" And they're like, "Oh, that's Donald Trump." And I (ph) go, "Yes, that's Donald Trump, the eyebrows." And I was like, you know, "He just stuck his hand up my skirt. Ew."
And we just sort of went off the rest of our night. We moved and that was that.
COOPER: Did he say anything to you before or after that or during it?
ANDERSON: No.
COOPER: Have you seen that you were sitting next to Donald Trump?
ANDERSON: I did not see that I was sitting next to him. I wasn't aware of that. I was talking to somebody here. And if you have ever been to a nightclub, that's a hot one, you know, you could be sitting next to people that you don't know. It's very easy.
COOPER: Do you remember what club it was?
ANDERSON: I'm pretty sure it was China Club, because I remember the red velvet couches.
COOPER: And do you know -- one of the things Donald Trump said today is that he rarely went out alone. He wouldn't have been sitting alone. Was he sitting alone? Was he sitting with other people? Do you know?
ANDERSON: Well, the place was very packed and very crowded. That he was alone, I doubt it. I didn't see who he was with but there were people everywhere. I mean, he could have been sitting there alone in the midst of a crowd. I don't know. That -- you know, he was sitting next to me.
COOPER: Did you say anything to Donald Trump when he did this?
ANDERSON: I didn't. I just got up and sort of made very quick eye contact and just moved.
COOPER: When you made eye contact did he acknowledge you at all? Or -- ANDERSON: No, just sort of a quick glance. It was sort of like --
nothing really. It was very nothing.
COOPER: Did your friends see what happened? Or did you talk to them about what happened?
ANDERSON: Well, right then I did. And they were all like, "Well, that's Donald Trump." And I said, "He just put his hand up my skirt." Unfortunately, I'm not in contact with those people anymore. But quite a few of my other friends who I saw recently afterwards, of course, I told all them.
COOPER: At the time --
ANDERSON: And, you know, we had a conversation about it.
COOPER: At the time, what did you think about it? I mean, it is -- it is a startling -- I mean that is a startling thing to have happen.
ANDERSON: Yes. I -- I don't know, to be honest. It was one of those things that happened really quickly. And I pushed him off and moved away. And I sort of didn't really ponder on it that long. And I didn't tell anybody.
I've seen a few people, like, oh, you should have said something. Yes, say what? To who? Like --
COOPER: Do you feel if you had said something to the club management or security or something like that? Did you think about that at all?
ANDERSON: I thought about it now. Could I have said something? Maybe. But, you know, who am I going to tell? So, I go to the club manager and I'd say, Donald Trump put his hand up my skirt. They will be like, yes. And they'll go to him and say, did you do this? And he'll say no. And where do we go from there?
It's kind of like where we are now. So, it's -- you know? He's saying no. And there are a ton of women saying, yes, and more will come out because if this was that nonchalant, there is no way he didn't it to many other people.
COOPER: At the time, did you consider it sexual assault?
ANDERSON: No. I didn't think of it that way, no.
[20:10:02] But assault in my mind meant something else. You know, hitting is assault. And I was very unaware with -- unaware of, you know, mental abuse, manipulation, bullying. I mean that is just straight up bullying.
And maybe not exactly what happened to me but certainly what happened to some of these other girl whose didn't get up and leave very quickly.
COOPER: I'm wondering one week ago when the "Access Hollywood" tape came out with Donald Trump and with Billy Bush on the bus and the comments, was it -- I'm wondering what you thought or felt when you heard that, when you saw that?
ANDERSON: Well, a girlfriend of mine told me about it, actually. I don't really keep up with the news. And I don't really keep with politics. So, she was like, "Kristin, you have to watch this video. You can't believe it. You know, because this happened to you."
And so, I watched the video. And I was like wow, that's horrifying. It's horrifying. And I really felt for the girl walking into it. Like when he comes off the bus and she walks right up and she walks right into it, had no why idea what he was just saying. And it's --
COOPER: I actually want to play that just for your viewers so they know specifically what you are referencing. Let's watch that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP: Hello. How are you? Hi.
ARIANNE ZUCKER: Hi, Mr. Trump. How are you? Pleasure to meet you.
TRUMP: Nice seeing you. Terrific, terrific. You know Billy Bush?
BILLY BUSH: Hello, nice to see you. How you doing, Arianne?
ZUCKER: I'm doing very well, thank you.
Are you ready to be a soap star?
TRUMP: We're ready. Let's go. Make me a soap star.
BUSH: How about a little hug for the Donald? He just got off the bus.
ZUCKER: Would you like a little hug, darling?
TRUMP: Absolutely. Melania said this was OK.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: So, it was that moment in particular.
ANDERSON: That moment in particular really was very nauseating to me, nauseating.
COOPER: Can I ask? What was it about that particular moment? Because, obviously, there were comments before but something about her walking into the situation not knowing what had happened? Is that --
ANDERSON: Well, I guess when the talk of what was going on in the bus was upsetting, obviously. And then I understood, like, oh this is -- you know, here is a man who thinks he can do whatever he wants and deny it and get away with it.
But when she walks into it, it's like innocence walking into like the devil's den. It's scary. I felt scared for her.
And probably nothing happened to her. But maybe it could have. It could have. And it happened to other women.
So, it was scary to me. I felt like that little fear like ooh.
COOPER: We're going to talk to Ariane Zucker later on tonight.
Donald Trump as you probably know has attacked many of the women who have come forward. He's implied some of the accusers want 15 minutes of fame. Some, he's attacked their looks. He's called them liars.
His campaign has called your story a phony allegation. Says you are looking for free publicity.
Why did you decide to come forward and tell what you say happened to you?
ANDERSON: Well, mostly because there are many, many women who most -- these things happened to. And not just with Donald Trump but many men, who feel that they can just take advantage of women and the women don't say anything. And I was just talking to a man not two minutes ago who said it's only 20 percent of adult women who actually report rape. That's adult women. Not, you know, young women who still, you know, haven't come into their power yet.
And just being able to, you know, come out and say it and have other women come out and say it. It is OK to say it. Say it. Somebody has to say it. Otherwise, we're just being quiet and letting it happen.
And also, like I said before, it's sort of a gateway. So, yes, he stuck his hand up my skirt. Was it hurt? No. Is it traumatized my whole life? No.
But I let it slide. And what's the next thing that you let slide? And the next thing and the next things and when is it OK and where do you draw that line? When is that assault?
Because, if you can just grab a girl, you know, grab her boobs or just throw her down and kiss her and that's not assault and that's OK? I don't -- I don't get that. I don't get that. So it would be nice to have some sort of system in place to allow these women to come forward and not be, sort of demonized or called all sorts of names.
[20:15:11] I've been called all sorts of names today. So, yes.
COOPER: Yes.
Kristin, I want to just take a quick break. I want to if we can continue the conversation after the break. I'll just be away for a just a few minutes.
We'll be right back for more with Kristin Anderson.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, the breaking news tonight: Donald Trump capping a very rough week. His new accusers step forward and even his damage control appears capable of doing damage on its own to his campaign, especially his alleged victims.
We're talking tonight with one of the new accusers, Kristin Anderson.
Kristin, thanks for being with us.
Donald Trump himself denied your allegations today on the campaign trail. I think it's important for you and certainly our viewers to see exactly what he said. So, I just want to play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: One came out recently, where I was sitting alone in some club. I really don't sit alone that much honestly folks, I don't think I sit alone. I go in with groups of people -- I was sitting alone by myself like this. And then I went, wah -- to somebody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I'm just wondering what you think hearing that, hearing the audience's reaction?
ANDERSON: You know, I think -- I think people with this sort of personality will do what he's doing. You know, he's not going say, "Oh, yes, sorry. That's not going to happen." He's making fun of it and making light of it and denying it.
COOPER: You feel he's making light of it, making fun of it?
ANDERSON: Yes. With that -- his -- you know, his joke -- he's joking about it.
[20:20:03] He's joking about it. And that's a message that's going out to everybody. That's scary. That's scary.
COOPER: Some Trump supporters have said that the timing of a lot of these allegations is suspicious to them, this close to the election. So, I guess -- you know, you said earlier you're not a political person. You don't really follow politics very much.
ANDERSON: Right.
COOPER: Are you, you know, a Hillary Clinton supporter? Have you contributed to the Clinton campaign? The Clinton Foundation?
ANDERSON: No. No.
COOPER: Are you politically motivated?
ANDERSON: No. Actually I'm a little politically terrified. I only started looking into the political situation recently just to sort of see what's going on.
And I'm pretty terrified with both candidates, to be honest. I don't want to vote for either of them. I think it is sad that that is our choice. And that scares -- scary. Scares me.
COOPER: So, you are saying you have no political motivations here in terms of telling your story?
ANDERSON: No. No. And I was very reluctant to come here and do this. This is not -- this doesn't benefit me in any way. You know I'm getting hate mail now. So, this is -- does nothing for me. And --
COOPER: I understand it was actually "The Washington Post" who I guess heard about you through somebody else and contacted you. Is that correct? That it was --
ANDERSON: That is correct.
COOPER: That it wasn't you reaching out to them.
ANDERSON: Yes, that is correct. They came to me and I pondered for a few days before I was like, OK, you know, this is important, this is important, this is important.
And, you know, as somebody who has been abused, it is important. It is important. Even the smallest assault is important.
And that's really the message I want to tell women, you know. If you -- if it's inappropriate, it's inappropriate. And it needs to be out there.
And you don't have to take it. And you need to stand up for yourself and be strong.
COOPER: Can I ask you what the thought process was? You said you took a couple of days to think about it. And, you know, they came to you.
What was some of the kind of the thought process in your mind? Because, you know, going public like this is obviously -- as the big step.
ANDERSON: Yes. Well, I guess the facts that he was lying and that I knew that and then I saw the other women. That was a factor. And I said, well, you know, the right thing to do would be to tell my story as well. They are being very brave and coming out and telling it.
Then, there is the shameful side that says, oh, well, you were wearing a mini skirt. So, maybe it is -- you know, maybe you shouldn't be talking about that. But everybody was wearing a mini skirt. So, is that a problem? Is that relevant?
And then, you know, this is a long time ago. This happened a long time ago. And it really -- it's not part of my life. It's not something I talk about. It's not something I care about, really.
But, you know, people around me are like, "Yes, Kristin, but it is important." It is important. And just the fact that I, to myself, was brushing it off, that was the part that said, you know what, you really shouldn't brush that off. The fact that you want to brush it off means that you really should say it. COOPER: Do you find different reactions that men have to women have,
because I think if men found themselves groped on the street or whistled at on the street or whatever that so many women -- I don't -- I'm not talking about Donald Trump, I'm just talking in general, even today, go through on a daily basis.
ANDERSON: Right.
COOPER: If I'm walking with a woman friend of mine, I'm always amazed at the way people look at her. Or, you know, compared to a male. And do you think if -- do you think men sort of see this differently in some way? I don't want to generalize that all men, obviously.
ANDERSON: Yes, well, I've been whistled at plenty and followed down the street, and eyed up and down. And it's -- it's scary. You know?
And then there are people who will say well, if you don't want that attention, then you shouldn't dress like that. And then, well, I could wear a burqa. I guess that is my choice.
But, you know, I like to feel good about myself. And that doesn't mean that I need everybody ogling more or whistling at me or saying "hot mama", or whatever they are going say to me.
[20:25:07] It's not -- it doesn't make you feel good.
COOPER: If you could say something directly to Donald Trump, what would you say?
ANDERSON: I would say, you know, there is probably a lot more women and you know it and I know it and they all know it. So, just come clean and just say -- you know, apologize. Just come clean. They're not going come -- they're not going to stop coming out of woodworks. That's for sure.
COOPER: Kristin, appreciate you talking tonight. Thank you very much, Kristin Anderson.
ANDERSON: Thanks.
COOPER: I want to bring in the panel, Clinton supporter, Jonathan Tasini, "New York Times" political reporter, Alex Burns, also Trump supporters, former U.S. Congressman Jack Kingston, conservative Trump critic Amanda Carpenter, and Trump supporter Andre Bauer, former South Carolina lieutenant governor.
Amanda, what do you make of what you heard?
AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think for all the people accusing these women of seeking publicity, I think they should watch that interview. She didn't look like she was having fun tonight. This doesn't look like the way she wanted to spend her Friday night.
These women could have sold their stories for money. It needs again to point out, they did not come out until they heard his words. And then they realized, yes, I have an obligation to speak out.
But this is so much bigger than Donald Trump. Although Donald Trump's words and actions really disturb me, I'm even more disturbed by the way Republicans have come out to defend him.
I've watched so many people that I respect, like Rudy Giuliani, Newt Gingrich, Ben Carson and others dismiss this, say it just happens, deal with it. We have big problems in our party and after this election, somebody is going to write an autopsy report. And I think there needs to be political obituaries for the men who are jumping to defend Donald Trump and smear these women.
COOPER: Congressmen, you are a Trump supporter.
JACK KINGSTON, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, let me say this. I have been an as employer involved with cases of sexual misconduct. I take them very seriously.
I would also say my experience and interaction with the campaign, everybody there takes it very, very seriously. This is sober stuff, Anderson. Nobody is arguing with that.
I know in the cases that I've been involved with, sometimes women come forth immediately and sometimes they don't, which makes it very tricky and challenging for us as a society to deal with it. So, we're not saying to somebody -- and I do know that criticism is out there. Well, why did you wait so long? But there are reasons that women need to wait that long and women have told me that and I respect those reasons.
You know, I also, one of the cases that I was vicariously involved with because I had a constituent involved with was the Duke Lacrosse case. And it was a horrible case in which all of these fine young men were basically guilty more one year in the court of public opinion. And every single one of them, by every measure, every critic at the end of this horrible period said they were innocent.
And so, the reason why I bring that up is litigate these serious cases, if we as a society want to treat this seriously, to litigate it, you know, it under the current circumstances, is very, very difficult.
COOPER: Let me ask you. You were saying you were involved in sort of corporate cases of this, which obviously corporations today are taking it far more seriously than they did 20, 30 years ago. If a CEO of a company said the things that Donald Trump said on that bus that we know he said or an employee in a company said those things and they were heard by other people in the company, would that person still keep their job?
KINGSTON: I think that would be very, very disturbing. And I they that that would be an issue that the employer would want to know, what in the world were you talking about?
COOPER: Would you think an HR department would allow that person to keep their job? KINGSTON: I think the HR department would delve into it. The
incident -- incidentally, the HR director for Trump businesses is a woman, or was a woman named Rosen, Deidra Rosen (ph). And she speaks very highly of Donald Trump.
And, you know, one of the things that I think, you know, measuring things and its context. Here is someone who has 43 percent of his employees are women. Yet, the majority of his management team are female. And --
COOPER: Right. I guess the question, Andre, may I ask you, is if a corporation -- I mean, I've heard a lot of people say a corporation would not stand for an employee, you know, talking about standing around talking about grabbing a women by the genitals and bragging about it. That employee would probably not keep their job.
If a corporation has those standards, shouldn't be, I mean, the highest office in the land?
ANDRE BAUER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Clearly, there are things here that we don't all approve of.
[20:30:00] Again, we don't know all of the circumstances surrounding this. You know, I would reference two things that I saw today. Number one was Ms. Oregon. Jennifer Murphy, who said yes, Donald Trump, gave me a peck on the lips. But she never felt violated. She was -- she says she's still voting for him.
And so we don't know. I don't want to try Donald Trump because that's not my job to do that. I'm supporting for a multitude of other reasons. Does this make us question? Well, sure it does. All of us question the multitude of facts were giving 24 -- 25 days before an election.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Right. But it's -- what's not in contention is what Donald Trump actually said and just those comments alone, I think ...
BAUER: Well, I have heard lots of guys in leadership positions say things that I didn't think were appropriate comments. That didn't mean I didn't think they were in a good situation still be a great leader.
COOPER: OK. Jonathan?
JONATHAN TASINI, CLINTON SUPPORTER: You've heard -- and I just want to clarify. You heard people talk about sexual assault, a crime?
BAUER: I've heard people talk exactly like he talked. In other words talking about committing ...
(CROSSTALK)
TASINI: An act of sexual assault, is that right?
AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I've never heard that language and I've heard Donald Trump ...
TASINI: I've never guys talk that way, I'm sorry. Not in any circumstance. I think we're mistaking something. We're making -- we're talking about these generalities but there's a long history of Donald Trump's behavior towards women. And the fact that 11 women, so far, and this is just the beginning, have come out and talked about being assaulted by Donald Trump is he's a criminal. He has create -- he has executed a crime against women. And we can't sort of brush that over. It's not, as you point out, this issue about what's happening in corporations. We are 25 days away from an election. And we're deciding about whether to elect a man who has committed a crime. But -- multiple crimes.
BAUER: The gentlemen on the airplane said in fact that's not at all how the story happened on the airplane. He said I was there the entire time. She actually him ...
TASINI: Andre?
BAUER: ... that she wanted -- he says that she told him she wanted to marry Donald Trump. So stories change over ...
CARPENTER: I mean this is hardly the kind of evidence that can clear these kind of accusations and it probably can't be cleared up in a run up before the election. But the reaction coming from men in the Republic Party is going to do such lasting damage. People don't seem to understand the concept of consent. You bring up the girl who said, oh, I wasn't bothered if Donald Trump kissed me. Well for a man to kiss you without, you know, asking or having a previous relationship, that is very disturbing behavior.
TASINI: And let me add ...
COOPER: Well, we'll get Alex. I mean, where is the tipping point in all this? I mean, you know, a number of women have already come forward. It's very possible more may come forward. You know, the timeline of this is very different. We've all heard the comments. Where is the tipping point? Because at this point the campaign says that they are going to present some evidence. You know, they don't really seem to have that much at this point.
ALEX BURNS, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: Well, I think politically if you want to look for the tipping point, then look behind you. We're at a stage in this campaign now where Trump has allowed the story to go on for days with these very specific accusations but now a full week since the first tape came out, he has not said or done anything that seems to have convinced the great bulk of voters to disregard all of this information.
And as we know, you know, from the answer he gave you in the debate, his categorical statements about his past behavior are at odds with now just a body of claims that grows every single day. And, you know, I suppose I respect the Trump supporters for making their valiant effort to defend him here, but you have precious few Republicans who want to do that at this point and you have more and more folks in the party who are no longer talking -- trying to win the presidential election. They're just talking about trying to ...
TASINI: Alex, in your own story today, your story along with Maggie Haberman and John Martin quoted Republican donors, big ones, saying, for example, at some point you have to look in the mirror and recognize that you cannot possibly justify support for Trump to your children, especially your daughters. This was David Humphrey.
COOPER: We got to take a quick break. We'll have more of this conversation right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:37:12] COOPER: We're talking about Donald Trump's ongoing damage control attempts today including this, just moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These allegations are 100 percent false. As everybody, I think you know. I think you get it. I think you get it. They are made up. They never happened. When have you met tens of thousands of people, as I have, and I've met thousands and thousands and thousands of people. Know them, know them well. It's not hard to find a small handful of people willing to make false smears for personal fame, who knows, maybe for financial reason, political purposes or for the simple reason they want to stop our movement, they want to stop our campaign. Very simple.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Back with the panel. Amanda, I'm wondering what you make of -- are you surprised that Donald Trump in his own defense is going after the appearance of some of these people?
CARPENTER: Nothing surprises me anymore. But I mean certainly that may be his instinct. But is there anybody in that campaign who has any common sense for how to discuss this issue? I don't know what Steve Bannon or Kellyanne Conway or the rest of them are doing right now but this certainly is not a good reaction.
But I do think there is one thing that Republicans need to be thinking about. Post Donald Trump, how does the GOP ever stop this from happening again? There has to be reforms with the RNC and I think first and foremost, there has to be vetting of candidates who get to that GOP primary debate stage that includes submitting your tax returns, but also a scrub of previous interviews like the Howard Stern tapes which we all kno are out there.
COOPER: Well, it's interesting Bloomberg reported, and I asked Corey Lewandowski about this last night and he really wouldn't answer it. But Bloomberg is reporting that Corey Lewandowski, who was, at that point, the campaign manager, wanted the Trump campaign to do opposition research on the candidate which a lot of campaigns understandably do to see if there are other any landmines that another team doing opposition research will find, and according to Bloomberg that was nixed by Donald Trump. JACK KINGSTON, SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Well, I think that the Trump campaign really has focused more on change on the future on national security, on economic changes, deregulation, more jobs and so forth and immigration security. And I think that has been the focus of the campaign ...
COOPER: Wait, wait, wait. Wait a minute. Let me stop you. You're saying they didn't want to do opposition research on Donald Trump because they were too busy coming up with policy positions? Because I got to say for a campaign, they have -- I haven't seen many policy papers compared to most average campaigns. I mean, you've got to admit it ...
[20:40:00] KINGSTON: Well, actually I think he's put forward an immigration plan, a tax plan, an energy plan. He's given a plan on national security. I think he really has, but the, you know, the situation is ...
COOPER: Do you wish they had done opposition research on their own candidate like many campaigns do?
KINGSTON: It's always a good idea. Everybody would say that. But I think also the animosity towards Donald Trump by the establishment has been so great that candidates usually don't get the kind of scrutiny he does.
But I do want to say at this point, the Donald Trump that I've gotten to know, and I go way back with Mike Pence and Kellyanne Conway. They are very, very fine people. The Donald Trump I know is not the Donald Trump that he was 10 or 11 years ago.
COOPER: How do you know that?
KINGSTON: Because I've seen him interact with ...
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: Far more time with Kellyanne and far more time with Mike Pence over the years.
COOPER: Right. Total like hours, how much time ...
KINGSTON: I can't count it but I can tell you this that ...
COOPER: They might spend days with the guy?
KINGSTON: I'd say days with the team. And I've seen the interaction of him with his family, with his employees and so forth. And I think he's a different man than he was 11 years ago and I think most of us are.
COOPER: But in 2004 and 2005, I think he was -- he said it's OK to call his daughter a nice piece of, you know, what.
KINGSTON: And you know what?
COOPER: Do you think ...
KINGSTON: I'm a father of two daughters and I would not do that. I know Mike Pence would not do that. But I also know in that Hollywood culture when he was doing a lot of these flippant to me, and I assume with you, offensive kind of comments and interviews, I think that was part of the shtick if you will.
COOPER: See, because I've done Howard Stern only twice when he's (inaudible) than I have, but you don't have to answer a question. Howard Stern is one of the greatest interviewers there is. And he'll ask provocative questions but you have the power of saying, you know what, I'm not going down that road. So I mean, I'm just wondering when this change in Donald Trump occurred.
TASINI: And just this little point just so we get clear about terminology. You keep, and I say some Republicans keep using the word offensive language. Saying I'm going to grab your pussy is sexual assault. That is not just offensive language. And so I think we have to get the terminology ...
(CROSSTALK)
TASINI: When somebody contemplates that, you know and I said before, I said before, I believe he committed these acts. 11 women have come forward. I believe that's just the beginning.
KINGSTON: Jonathan?
TASINI: I believe he did commit those crimes. But saying -- I don't know why you don't see this. It's not just offensive language. He is talking about a sexual crime.
KINGSTON: Jonathan, Jonathan, do you really believe that that conversation on the bus was a plot, a deliberate this is what we're going to do? Because I'll say this, as a guy who has played sports all my life, never going to say I was a sports star but I've been in locker rooms since that was five years old and I've heard that kind of going banter ...
COOPER: But also -- right.
KINGSTON: And I've got say, it is not -- it's not really ...
COOPER: But how old were you when you're in a locker room? Donald Trump is, what, 56 years old at that point. At a certain point, I don't think he'd seen the inside of a locker room ...
(CROSSTALK)
CARPENTER: He wasn't in a locker room he was in a place of work.
TASINI: But respectfully, that's not correct. First of all, there have been a whole series of athletes -- let me finish. There have been a whole series of athletes who in the last week have come forward and said publicly that is not the way we talk in the locker room. Jack, hold on. Because we are fathers. We have daughters. We have sisters. They do not talk that way.
And Jack, I want to say again, this is not just sort of flippant conversation. We are talking about somebody who was talking about sexual assault.
COOPER: By the way, he was 59.
TASINI: That is a very different thing. I don't know why ...
KINGSTON: Let me say. Well, Jonathan, I would have to say to you and I have to say to you very, very respectfully, there was no deliberate "let's go out and assault somebody." It was locker room banter. And I can say this to somebody who ...
CARPENTER: This is a not locker room.
KINGSTON: ... has been in a locker room and has been in the company of men, I'm sorry to say, but sometimes there are X-rated disgusting off the wall conversations ...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: One at a time. One at a time. OK, Amanda go ahead.
CARPENTER: It was not locker room talk. He was in a place of work. This is a professional setting for Mr. Trump. He was speaking to a member of the media on a mic, mic'd up, talking about woman they work with. Stop with this locker room talk. He was doing it as a professional man in a professional setting.
KINGSTON: Amanda, I would have to disagree also respectfully with you.
CARPENTER: I don't think you're respecting anybody if you think this is a talk that women should be subjected to.
KINGSTON: You know, this is the problem when we're trying to discuss a very serious issue. I think you have a point. I think you have a point. But I cannot believe you can't see that there is a thing called banter that goes on ...
TASINI: Jack ...
KINGSTON: ... that people may be talking about. But Jonathan, you're ...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Let him finish. Go ahead.
KINGSTON: They're acting like they were saying now when we go outside of this bus, we're going to do A, B and C. That wasn't ...
[20:45:03] CARPENTER: He's saying I did this. This is how you do it. Here's this hot woman.
KINGSTON: ... the talk between two guys who to me, it was disgusting.
CARPENTER: Yeah, but they were women that could hear that were probably ...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Hold on. We haven't heard much from Alex.
BURNS: And I'm sorry to get in the middle of you guys.
TASINI: Come in Alex.
BURNS: I think what we're hearing from the Congressman is interesting because it shows kind of the progression of thought that a lot of Republicans have had about Donald Trump that, you know, a lot of people heard him say things publicly throughout the primary and before the primary. And they went into the general election thinking well he seems to have such a nice family so maybe he's a different man than I thought he was, I'll give him another chance.
Then the tape comes out, and then there's the sort of bargaining process of, well, he's not the man in private but I wanted him to be but maybe he's just saying those things. Maybe he's not doing those things. Now you're confronted with this sort of parade of women who say that no he did do those things.
And, you know, I respect that the Congressman continues to support Donald Trump but the problem that I think a lot of Republicans I talked to are having is they have now reached so many different walls of trying to sort of defend Donald Trump from what seems to be reality ...
KINGSTON: And let me say ...
BURNS: ... stick with it.
KINGSTON: As have the Democrats. My friend Jonathan over here, you know, 33,000 e-mails. No classified -- well, there were classified, one server. Oh, there were 13 servers. (Inaudible) against Wall Street but I get hundreds of millions of dollars in speeches and I'm not going let those speeches out. I mean, Democrats have had to stretch and stretch and stretch to in this campaign and I think that's important.
COOPER: We -- quick response and we got to do.
TASINI: I'm just going to -- I'm happy to talk sometime about the e- mails but let's ...
KINGSTON: We can talk right now.
(CROSSTALK)
TASINI: No, no, because Anderson wants to go to a break, so I'm going to be very quickly.
Jack, again, this is not just banter, it's sexual assault and we need to understand that ...
KINGSTON: ... the evidence isn't just oh we lost those-mails. You destroyed evidence -- it was a federal offense.
TASINI: Very serious crime against women by talking about something ...
COOPER: We got to end the conversation, I'm sorry, there. I want to thank our panel.
As you've been hearing, no consensus exists on what Donald Trump said. Let's look now of the hard fallout, a string of polls showing his support collapsing, especially among women. Hillary Clinton has expanded her lead nationwide and in key swing states even some reliably red states are now threatening to turn purple according to polls. The up-shot Trump's path to 270 is shrinking. John King joins us to break it down by the numbers.
JOHN KING, CNN'S CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the map is looking more and more bleak for Donald Trump and all these controversies, that groping tape. Now, these allegations of women coming forward saying he's touched them inappropriately. They're adding to his problem.
Let's take a look first at the newest national numbers. This is the Fox News poll which shows Hillary Clinton with a seven-point national lead, 45 percent for Clinton, 38 percent for Trump. It's worth noting. This was only a two-point Clinton lead one week ago. So, in the middle of all these controversy, a swing toward Clinton, a seven- point national lead now. What's driving it? The gender gap, women defecting from Donald Trump. 19-point edge for Hillary Clinton now in this Fox News national poll among female likely voters, a 19-point edge for Secretary Clinton. That is a huge deal and it's even a bigger deal when you break it down. Take a closer look at why it's happening.
Look this right now, again just in the last week, Donald Trump has lost 12 points among women aged 45 and older. Ten points among suburban women. This is where a close presidential have decided in the suburbs. Seven points among white women with college degrees and six points among women who describe themselves as Republicans. Donald Trump is bleeding support among women at a critical time in this race.
How do those national numbers translate when you go to the state levels? Well, call it a case of the battleground blues. Remember early on, Trump was going to win by winning across the Rust Belt. Well, Ohio is his best state. Plus one in the latest poll, although, this other polling that shows this one tied or maybe Clinton plus one, but that's his best state, Ohio, it's not enough.
Losing in Wisconsin, losing in Michigan, losing big in Pennsylvania, winning in Indiana, where his running mate, Mike Pence, is from, but only by four points. That's a very conservative state. Tells you how the Republican ticket is struggling. Clinton is leading in North Carolina. Clinton is leading in New Hampshire. So you switch maps and watch how this all plays out. If the election were today, we already have Secretary Clinton at 272. We have Trump at 196, although some of those are actually getting (inaudible). We include Utah in that, we include Georgia in that. We'll leave them there for now, but some Republicans are even worried about those states.
But look at the map. Clinton leads in Nevada. Clinton leads in Florida. Clinton leads in North Carolina. Trump maybe leads only in Ohio of the battleground states. If it played out like that today, 322 to 214. That's a blow out. That's a lot like the 2012 results.
How can Trump win? Well, about the only path left, turn Florida around. Turn North Carolina around, hold Ohio. Even if Trump can do that, Anderson, no easy task, still needs 17 more. The only place to get them in one swoop, Pennsylvania, where he now trails by nine, where he's now struggling in the Philadelphia suburbs even more now than he was a month or so ago.
A lot of Republicans think that's impossible. Even a lot of Republicans close to the Trump campaign think this election is over. Those who say it's not over, say that's his only path to 270 and turning those four states, holding that one, turning those three, an incredibly hard task, even more complicated when you're still in the middle of all of this controversy. Anderson?
[20:50:12] COOPER: Yeah. John King. John, thanks very much.
A lot to discuss with the panel, CNN political commentator and Clinton supporter, Patti Solis Doyle, CNN chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, and CNN political commentator and Republican strategist, Kevin Madden.
So, Gloria, as John pointed out, a 19-point difference in the gender gap in favor of Hillary Clinton, this, you know, the increasing number of allegations likely just lead to that.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure. And think back to 2012, Mitt Romney lost the election and he had a gender gap of eight points. So now, here you have Donald Trump with a gender gap of 19 points. And as John points out, it's all kinds of women. It's Republican women, it's suburban women, it's college-educated white women.
I don't know that there is much he can do at this point to sort of make up that gender gap, particularly in the way he's handling this kind of avalanche of allegations against him, because what he seems to be doing in dealing with this problem is making it worse, by saying, oh, by the way, look at these women, insinuating that they weren't pretty enough somehow for him to sexually assault. That is not the way to win back women voters. I will tell you that.
COOPER: Kevin, just in the last week, Trump has lost 10 points with suburban women just -- I mean that's in the last week. Can he come back from something like this especially this late in the game? KEVIN MADDEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Look, I think right now the fundamentals of this election are set, and there's really not much that he can do to change it. I mean, everybody keeps pointing about what's going to happen at the next debate. It's very rare that you see a debate, particularly after most folks have watched the first two, and again, made up their minds, pretty much, about who they want to support.
Right now, I think we're probably looking at just the partisans that are going to be tuning in to root for one candidate or the other. But, you know, even when you look at the map, John King brings up a really good point. If you're going to rely -- if you're going to rely on trying to hold the old Mitt Romney map and defend places like Ohio -- or you want to win places like Ohio, win places like Florida, and then look at a state like Pennsylvania, if you're going to win Pennsylvania, you know where you have to win? You have to win the suburbs around Philadelphia.
And the suburban women right now that live in those areas, they are totally turned off by Trump. And it's very unlikely you're going to see those numbers change.
So right now, I think the fundamentals of this election are set, and all we're really looking at right now and arguing about are the atmospherics and the theatrics.
COOPER: Patti, when you look at the electoral map that John laid out, I mean if the election were tomorrow, on the map it looks like a blowout. Does Hillary Clinton just have to play defense from now until Election Day and hope more doesn't come out in WikiLeaks?
PATTI SOLIS DOYLE, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Well, look, there's an old saying in politics, when your opponent is self-imploding, you know, you just stay out of the way. And I think Hillary right now is fund- raising out on the West Coast, and then she's going to take some days to prepare for the debate. And I think that's important. And it's certainly worked for her in the past to prepare. And she's got some killer, you know, surrogates out there campaigning for her. She's the got Michelle Obama, who, I think, was amazing yesterday and today she had President Obama.
I think her focus should be on the debate, because right now Donald Trump has this attitude, I may be going down, but I'm taking you down with me. And I think that's a totally different scenario for the debate next Wednesday and she needs to be prepared for how to deal with that.
COOPER: Gloria, the Clinton campaign for their part, I mean, cautiously optimistic. They've been holding lots of rallies and public events, as Patti just mentioned, while she prepares for the debate. There is still the question of WikiLeaks e-mails that, you know, that are slowly rolling out. I mean, that -- is that not a real concern for her? I would think ...
BORGER: I think it's a real concern, because you don't know what is going to come out from day to day. I mean every time we talk about the WikiLeaks e-mails, Donald Trump comes out with something else that we have to -- that we have to discuss.
So, in the Clinton campaign, there is concern about it, when you ask them about it, they talk about the Russian hack. But if Trump were running a better campaign, they might be more concerned about it. But he isn't. And so, you know, these are precious days. This has been an entire week from last Friday night to this Friday night, that has been consumed with these allegations against Donald Trump and questions of Donald Trump and sexual assault. So they're backing off, as Patti is saying, and they don't know how long this is going to continue. But sure, they're concerned about WikiLeaks, but their competitor seems to be more concerned about himself and his own brand than actually winning the presidency at this point.
COOPER: Kevin, as a Republican, the point that Amanda made, how concerned are you about -- I mean, assuming Donald Trump does not become president, how concerned are you about the future of the Republican Party and what happens -- I mean, if we think about that autopsy, saying the GOP needed to reach out to women more, I mean, that seems like, you know, a long, long time ago.
[20:55:03] MADDEN: Yeah, it does. And I'm worried nobody even read it after 2012, if you look at the way we're acting right now. And it is a concern. I share Amanda's concerns.
I think we shouldn't have something like sexual assault be a partisan issue. That should be one where we in bipartisan fashion work to prevent it. And condemn it, quite frankly.
The other part of it is that this is a party right now, I think in the last 30 days that has defined itself by, again, what it's against, rather than what it's for. And if you look at the Trump campaign, it's only focused right now on animating its most ardent supporters. It's not doing what it needs to go out and get undecided voters, independent voters, and grow the party with a more inclusive message. And that is why we're in this position right now. And it's distressing for many Republicans.
COOPER: So, Patti, if you're advising the Clinton campaign, which you used to work for, how do you close out the campaign?
DOYLE: I think she's doing exactly what she should be doing. She should be closing with her closing arguments, talking about what she's going to do for this country. And honestly, I said it just a second ago, when your opponent is self-imploding, just get out of his way. So I think she's going to close strong.
COOPER: Patti ...
BORGER: She won't be able to do that during the debate, though.
COOPER: Right.
BORGER: At some point, she is going to have to confront him over this, because I guarantee you, Chris Wallace is going to ask some questions about it.
COOPER: Patti Solis Doyle, Gloria Borger and Kevin Madden, thanks very much.
Much more ahead on this two-hour edition of "360". Damaging day for Donald Trump with two more accusers coming forward, more about them and the insults Trump fired at some of them on the trial today. Plus, my interview with Arianne Zucker, the actress who was the subject of some of Trump's and Billy Bush's lewd comments on that 2005 tape.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Hey, good evening. Thanks for joining us tonight as two more accusers come forward, bringing the total to at least eight. What Donald Trump thinks of one of them?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When you looked at that horrible woman last night, you said, I don't think so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Trump today talking about Jessica Leeds, our guest on the program last night, she says Trump groped her on a flight in the late 1970s. Trump, as you heard, suggesting she was too unattractive for him to bother with. Today, the focus shifted a bit from her, though, that's because two newer accusers surfaced. CNN's Jason Carroll has the details of yet another damaging day for the Trump campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When you get hit, you hit back.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump is lashing out, even as more women come forward, accusing him of making unwanted sexual advances.
[21:00:04] TRUMP: They have no witnesses, there's nobody around. They just come out, some are doing it for probably a little fame. They get some free fame. It's a total set-up.
