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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
GOP Damage Control in Senate, House Races; Trump Predicting Victory Despite "Rigged System"; Biden: I Wish I Could Take Trump "Behind the Gym"; How will "Bad Hombres" Remark Play in AZ?; Latino Arizona Voters Split On Trump; Flashback: Univision's Jorge Ramos Ejected From Trump News Conference; Jorge Ramos: Trump Has Damaged GOP For Generations; Jorge Ramos: "Bad Hombres" Is A Stereotype; Trump: Election is Rigged. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 21, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:06] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
How many times in a year can you say, what a week? Tonight, with three weekends to go until the election, the Republican Party has been doing damage control, trying to insulate Senate and congressional candidates from a potential Trump defeat. Meantime, new data from CNN partner Catalyst shows the Democrats and presumably Hillary Clinton gaining their early voting edge in a number of key states. And Joe Biden today said he wish he could take Trump, and I'm quoting here, "behind the gym".
As for Trump who's just finished speaking tonight outside Philadelphia, he's already had some choice words today about winning and losing and whether the system is rigged. What a week?
So, begin the program with CNN's Jason Carroll traveling with the Trump campaign in Newtown, Pennsylvania.
So, Trump trailing in the polls nationally. There's North Carolina. What was Trump saying tonight to try to encourage his voters? And did his words resonate?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, a couple of things. Basically, he's telling his voters that the polls are wrong, that the polls are not true and that they should basically ignore the polls. I mean, you've got to do something. I mean, he's trailing here in the state of North Carolina, trailing in several national polls, and so, you've got to do something to rally your base.
And so, what we've been seeing and hearing from Donald Trump here in the state is basically saying things like, look, these polls are put out there by the media. The media cannot be trusted, talked again about the system being rigged.
But it's also very clear to the Trump campaign that internally they are worried. They are worried about these poll numbers and evidence of that, Anderson, at least some evidence of that, is something that Donald Trump said tonight that we've not heard him say before, and this was, quote, "we need you" -- meaning the people out there -- "we need you to help turn this thing around."
So, that's clearly an indication they are worried about where they stand now in the polls now.
COOPER: What are you hearing from his supporters and the crowds? I mean, is there -- do they believe the polls?
CARROLL: Well, a couple of things. Yes, they do believe that the polls are being put out there by what one person here told me the liberal media. So, it is resonating with his base. But the problem is, Anderson, is it resonating beyond his base?
And that's what the campaign needs do. That's what they've been unable to do. So, is it resonating with people in the room like where we are here in Pennsylvania? Yes. The message definitely resonates with the base. The problem is, it just doesn't seem to be resonating beyond that.
COOPER: All right. Jason Carroll, thanks very much. Whatever Donald Trump says about the polls, Republicans have been begun acting to contain the damage to congressional candidates. A first of its kind Senate ad is up in New Hampshire underscoring the need for Republicans to hold on to Congress no matter who is elected president.
It's a message incumbent GOP Senator Kelly Ayotte no doubt hopes will resonate. She's eight points down in statewide polls. And as John King tell us, she's not the only Republican candidate facing potential blowback if Donald Trump does poorly. He's got the lowdown by the numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, one of the most fascinating dynamics heading into the last two weeks is how this race, the race for president filling in this map is affecting the control for the battle for the Senate.
Let's bring up the Senate now. Right now, it's 54 Republicans, 46 Democrats. That includes the two independents who caucus with the Democrats and every two years. A third of the Senate is up.
Pretty easy to figure this one out. See, all these red lines? Those are seats held by Republicans. The blue lines seats currently held by Democrats.
So, you can see easily here, Republicans are defending a lot more seats, which is why Democrats think because of Donald Trump's troubles, they might be able to get the Senate back. They're actually quite optimistic about it. Now, the switch from a month ago.
First, let's do this. Take off the board and assign to the parties, the races, the strategies of both parties believe are pretty much baked out. Late in the race, is it possible one or two of these will come back? Yes. But most strategists think these ones are the ones that are baked. So, then, what's left? Among them, Marco Rubio. Remember, he ran the
presidential primaries. He decided to run for reelection in Florida. Again, this is a competitive race. President Obama was trying to have a little fun down there, but most people think in the end Marco Rubio will pull this out.
But watch to the end because Trump's troubles in Florida, if he struggles and tanks in Florida, maybe it comes to play. But let's leave it there for now.
Another race here, Roy Blunt in Missouri. Missouri, competitive in a Senate in a presidential year? It shouldn't be. But the Democratic is competitive in this race now. For the sake of argument, we're going to say Missouri sticks with its DNA. But watch this one to the end. We give that back to the Republicans.
Here, Russ Feingold, a Democrat trying to make a comeback. It is Ron Johnson, who is the Republican incumbent. Republicans are rushing money in here late to try to save this seat. But as we speak tonight, most think that one will go along with the presidential race staying blue in Wisconsin.
So, where are we? One two three four five six left. Let me take this off the board. In Ohio, Rob Portman running against the former governor. Rob Portman viewed as safe to hold that seat right now.
So, then, it gets interesting. We got the Republicans at 48, Democrats at 47, look what's left on the map. In New Hampshire, Maggie Hassan, the governor, running against the incumbent Senator Kelly Ayotte. Donald Trump in this state is pulling Kelly Ayotte down.
[20:05:01] At the moment, Maggie Hassan looks like she's poised for victory.
Time to go. That's where it is today. The same in Pennsylvania. Pat Toomey has been competitive. Trump now down by close to double digits. Katie McGinty viewed as favorite in that race right now.
Here's where it's interesting. The Democrats are now with 49 in this scenario. Again, it's hypothetical. If Hillary Clinton wins, they only need fifty and then Tim Kaine would break the tie in the Senate. One, two three, three races to get one, including Harry Reid's seat. This is the only Democratic seat people think is in play right now.
Joe Heck, the Republican, Republicans actually think -- even in Nevada, they can win this state, although of late, Trump has been struggling. But for now, worried about it. Let's give that to him injure for a scenario to show you how this could play out -- 49, 49, Indiana and North Carolina, usually reliably Republican states.
Evan Bayh trying to make a comeback against Republican Todd Young in Indiana. Watch that race. And in North Carolina, we talk about the Green Party candidate, the libertarian and presidential race. A libertarian in North Carolina could affect the race here. Richard Burr, the Republican incumbent, Deborah Ross has an ad on the air linking him to Donald Trump, saying he's still standing with Trump despite that "Access Hollywood" tape.
So, this could come down to something like this, 48/48, 49/49 with one or two Senate races deciding the balance of power. And, Anderson, heading into final weeks, Republicans are worried. As Trump goes down, so do their chances of maintaining the Senate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: John King -- John, thanks for that.
OK, panel now with the difference. All Republicans divided over Trump. Trump supporters Kayleigh McEnany and former South Carolina Lieutenant Governor Andre Bauer. Joining them, Trump critics Amanda Carter and Kevin Madden.
Kevin, this whole notion from Trump that the election is rigged, how concerned should down ballot Republicans be about that, because if Republican voters stay home believing the whole thing is rigged, a lot of these races could easily tilt in Democrats' favor.
KEVIN MADDEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes, that is why it's not a smart message. I mean, if anything it is counterproductive to energize your voters to get out to vote. What animated Republican -- what Republican is animated to vote if they believe that they are participating in an election that's rigged or where their vote won't count?
So, it is going to have a potential depressive effect on some of these races if -- particularly when look at the close races in places like John was talking about, in places like North Carolina and Nevada. Republicans staying home could be the difference maker in some of those racers.
COOPER: Kayleigh, as a Trump supporter, do you believe it actually will spur turnout? The whole rigged notion?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think -- well, potentially, yes, because I think if people think that the campaign is rigged, that the election is rigged, they are going to turn out.
And just to quickly mention about these down ballot races, I really think there could be a reverse down ballot effect. I've heard anecdotally for many Republicans saying, I'm not voting on my senator because he hasn't supported the nominee. Look at a place like New Hampshire where Donald Trump trounced Kasich by 20 percentage points, those voters who showed up enthusiastically for Trump, I can promise they are very disappointed in their Senate candidate who did not support the nominee.
So, it's a rejection of the voters, it's a rejection of the way they've chosen. I think there could be a reverse down ballot.
COOPER: Amanda, I mean, back in '96 when it seemed that Clinton -- Bill Clinton was all but certain to win, Republican operatives started urging congressional candidates in tough races to start using the argument that voters shouldn't giver Clinton a blank check, essentially conceding the presidential election, underscoring how important it was to keep Congress in Republican control.
Do you think we start seeing a similar thing in these next few weeks?
AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I mean, that is a smart message too, because whatever wins, whether it's Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, most likely Hillary Clinton, will need a strong Republican Congress to keep them in check.
But just to Kayleigh's point that she made earlier. I mean, Donald Trump is pulling so much worse than many of these senators in battleground states. If you look at the battleground states, they are fairly competitive maybe between three and five points. They're faring much more poorly like Illinois and Wisconsin.
But the Trump campaign still seems to think that the GOP primary is the same as the general election. It is not. The strategy for winning a primary will not translate to the general. That's why you see the terrible polling numbers that Donald Trump is both having in those battleground states and nationally.
MADDEN: To that -- to Amanda's point, the universe of voters in the general election is about 160 million. That's nowhere near the same universe of voters that participate in the primary. So, it's an entirely different electorate.
COOPER: It is, Andre, though, a bind for some down ballot Republicans because there is polling that indicates they get punished if they dump Trump. But if they stick with him, they can get punished as well by some other Republicans.
ANDRE BAUER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I think they are getting punished because people don't see any progress in Washington. I mean, the whole reason Donald Trump won against a very talented field of Republicans was this is a year of throw the bums out.
It's not just a Republican thing. It's not just a Democrat thing. It's a total -- they are so dissatisfied with the system, that's why they picked an outsider in Donald Trump. And that is why they are frustrated, some of them with their own members of Congress. They're at a boiling point where they want to drain the swamp, get the D.C. cartel out and start over.
[20:10:02] And sometimes, you even vote across party lines. I probably wouldn't be one of the folks do that, but some people are at the point where they are so fed up they are ready to start over and willing to give someone else a try no matter who.
COOPER: So, Kayleigh, what do you say to Republicans in tough races trying to figure out what to do about Trump? Whether they kind of, you know, just separate themselves from him or continue to embrace.
MCENANY: You support the nominee, support the choice of the people. The Republican Party seems to forget they do not exist absent Republican voters.
Republican voters -- this is really important I think. Frank Luntz posted a poll and it showed that 51 percent think Donald Trump is the leader of the Republican Party and just 30 percent think Paul Ryan is. Donald Trump is the way of this party's future. The outsider candidate is.
Support the nominee. That doesn't mean you have to agree on everything. If you disagree with something he said, you can say that.
COOPER: You think if he loses, you think he's still going to be around as a leader of the Republican Party?
MCENANY: He might not be but this movement will be around and Mike Pence will probably become the leader.
COOPER: Amanda, do you believe he will be the leader of the Republican Party moving forward?
CARPENTER: No. I think he'll be onto the next scheme. But, you know, I think most voters view the Republican Party not at some militaristic organization where you must fall in line. All these senators, members of Congress, need to run their individual races. They need to talk to voters about what is important to them.
And a lot of Republican voters are not happy with either choice, so the best thing members can do in individual races is prioritize their state's needs and talk about the best way to meet the needs of their voters. Not meet the needs of their presidential candidate who, you know, has self esteem issues and people not supporting him sufficiently.
MCENANY: That is such backward logic. Talk about saluting the leader but the leader was put there by these voters.
CARPENTER: No, I'm not, talking about the exact opposite.
MCENANY: But the leader was put there by the voters. So, by saying don't support the leader, but support the voters, that is backwards logic.
CARPENTER: Thirty percent of the GOP primary race. This is a general election, like I was saying earlier. We have to go into general election mode and appeal to a much broader swath of voters than Donald Trump did in the Republican primary.
COOPER: Kevin, what do you say to the down ballot Republicans trying to figure what do about Donald Trump?
MADDEN: Well, I agree the most important thing is to separate yourself from the troublesome national environment and personalize and localize your race. There are two types of campaigns out there. Those drafting off what they thought was some enthusiasm for an outsider like Donald Trump. And many of those races if they are in swing districts, they are going to lose right now because of the Donald Trump's depressive effect on the down ballot races.
But if you ran a campaign that was personalized and localized like Rob Portman, he essentially ran for sheriff r6 in every county in Ohio and he's probably running anywhere between 10 and 15 points ahead of Donald Trump. That is the ideal template I think for folks who are going to survive the Donald Trump effect in this election.
BAUER: Anderson, if they wrap themselves around the policies that Donald Trump talked about, immigration, welfare reform, getting us back in line and not being a continuing to spin out of control, if they wrap, they could easily say, look, I don't want agree with our nominee on everything but he's pointed out some key things that define where this country will go for the next four years. And those issues, they can easily embrace because when you put head-to-head issues on the two candidates, overwhelmingly, the people would support Donald Trump.
COOPER: All right. Kayleigh, Andre, stick around.
Kevin and Amanda, thanks so much. Have a great weekend.
Coming up next, Hillary Clinton on the trail trying to loosen Donald Trump's grip on Ohio, making sounds a lot like a closing argument.
And later, my conversation with Univision's Jorge Ramos, who has some thoughts on Trump' trajectory, as well as what he says is the rise of hate groups in the wake of his campaign.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:17:25] COOPER: Welcome back.
We talked about battleground states and Donald Trump's need to expand his voting base if he's going to win the independents, moderates, especially suburban women. However, it seems like Ohio, he's counting heavily turning out more of the white working class non-college educated voters who have been up to now his mainstay. The problem is, there are more of Hillary Clinton's kind of supporters than his kind, and she's doing a good job of getting them in states like Virginia and Pennsylvania. This might explain why she's doing begun wooing them in Ohio.
Joe Johns with tonight's report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, Hillary Clinton is setting her sights on the battleground of battlegrounds.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hello, Cleveland!
JOHNS: The Democratic nominee rallying supporters in Ohio where polls show the race is deadlocked and early voting is under way.
CLINTON: Whether or not you support me or you support my opponent, together we must support American democracy. Overall, more than 3.3 million Americans have already voted and data suggests Democrats have improved their standing compared to this point in 2012 in states such as North Carolina, Nevada and Arizona. But the number of early votes cast is down significantly in Ohio,
dropping 66 percent from four years ago. While Democrats hold a small advantage there in early balloting, it's closer than 2012.
With 18 days until Election Day, Clinton is making her closing argument on the trail.
CLINTON: Anger is not a plan. We need plans that will help us deal with the legitimate concerns and questions that people have here in Ohio.
JOHNS: And on television, releasing new ad featuring Khizr Khan, the father of a Muslim-American soldier killed in action in Iraq in 2004.
KHIZR KHAN, GOLD STAR FATHER: I want to ask Mr. Trump, would my son have a place in your America?
JOHNS: After two consecutive days of trading jabs with Trump face-to- face, including a Thursday night's Al Smith dinner in New York.
CLINTON: It is amazing I'm up here after Donald. I didn't think he'd be okay with a peaceful transition of power.
JOHNS: Clinton today lobbing attacks from afar.
CLINTON: Well, that was the third and last time that I will ever have to debate Donald Trump.
JOHNS: That as her campaign continues to deal with the awkward fallout from the daily release of hacked e-mails by WikiLeaks. The latest batch includes an exchange between long time Clinton aide Cheryl Mills and Huma Abedin last November, discussing the possibility Al Gore might not endorse Clinton despite serving as her husband's vice president.
[20:20:15] Mills sends a copy of an article about Gore's non- endorsement prompting this response from Huma Abedin, "Well, that was 16 years ago. Hard to put on e-mail but there is no love lost in this relationship. Reminder that he also refused to endorse in 2008." Mills replies, "I know that's why I thought this time would be different." To which Abedin responds, "No, it's bad."
Gore eventually did endorse Clinton and the two campaigned together in Florida earlier this month.
CLINTON: What I am most excited about is to be here with one of the world's foremost leaders on climate change, Al Gore.
JOHNS: Joe Johns, CNN, Cleveland, Ohio.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Let's bring in the panel. Clinton supporters Bill Press and Karine Jean-Pierre. Bill is an author and talk radio host. Karine is national spokesperson for MoveOn.org. Also, Carlos Watson, editor in chief of the news and information website, OZY.com, and back with us, Trump supporters, Kayleigh McEnany and Andre Bauer.
Carlos, it is interesting, you know, seeing the kind of behind the scenes, or reading the behind the scenes on the Gore/Clinton relationship especially when you see juxtaposed to them last weekend in Florida all buddy-buddy.
CARLOS WATSON, EDITOR IN CHIEF, OZY.COM: Well, you know, his heart still breaks, winning by 500,000 votes, never getting the chance to occupy the White House and seeing Hillary Clinton running that same year now up.
But you have to say, one of the impressive things about the last dozen days or so is the number of key surrogates Hillary's managed to get on the trail versus where Donald Trump has been. I still think one of the least-talked about things is what happened with Melania and Ivanka in the aftermath of the Billy Bush tape. We remember that Hillary Clinton jumped to her husband's side in '92. Maria Shriver did the same thing in 2003.
I think the fact that Trump hasn't had good surrogates way beyond not having a good field office and field operation I think when we look back on it is going to been the Achilles heel.
COOPER: It is, Karine, I mean, amazing, to Carlos' point when you see, you know, Hillary Clinton has been, whether it's debate prep or raising number, but essentially not running in the public eye, such as Donald Trump in the last couple of weeks. And yet she has these surrogates out there who and she can send them to various states all at the same time across the country.
KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: Yes, she has one of the most popular politicians in this country out there, talking on her behalf who's been incredibly effective. Michelle Obama, and then, you know, President Obama one poll had him at 58 percent popularity, which incredibly rare. Vice president was out today.
So, yes, I think she has the benefit of having strong surrogates, who incredibly popular who can go into these states, like Ohio, Pennsylvania, hey, Arizona, that's where Michelle Obama was yesterday. I mean, she is trying to flip, you know, these red states that, you know, Donald Trump is trying to defend. And it is unusual. You are right this is an unusual time. So, I think she's in a much better place.
COOPER: Bill, Kellyanne Conway, though, has made the point several times on the show that Hillary Clinton for all the surrogate power that she has, she should be doing much better in the polls. That she hasn't been able to get more than she has right now.
BILL PRESS, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: Well, I would invite Kellyanne Conway to sit down right alongside me of and I'll show her numbers. You if you look the polls, you look at all networks, right? ABC, CNN, whatever, she's up an average of 7 percent -- some as high as 11.
If you look at the battleground states, "Politico" today showed they have 11 states Donald Trump has to win. She's ahead in 6 out of 11. "The Washington Post" identified 15. She's ahead in nine of those. And then look at the Electoral College.
CNN, Larry Sabato, the University of Virginia, "Washington Post", all have her over 300 electoral votes. What is Kellyanne talking about?
I mean, this is going in one direction and I don't think you can turn it around in the time left. And if I may just add, the fact that Hillary Clinton was in Ohio today, this is like the icing on the cake. She doesn't need Ohio, but she's tied in Ohio and now she's making a play for Ohio. So, roll it up.
COOPER: Kayleigh, Donald Trump says he's going pack wall to wall events until Election Day.
MCENANY: Yes, I think that's very smart on his part. I mean, I would argue with Bill Press about this, you are right about the polls you cited, but there is one poll that was said to be the most accurate in 2012. That was statistically the most accurate in 2004 and 2008, that is the investors business daily poll that is ahead by one point.
I think there is a Brexit phenomenon, and I think polling actually confirms that. The same poll you're citing. The Bloomberg poll that just came out a few days ago. Full three (ph) percent said that they did not want to tell the pollster who they were voting for.
I'm fairly certain those folks were voting for Donald Trump and I'm fairly certain there were a lot of Donald Trump supporters who don't want to be in the basket of deplorables who just hang up when the pollster calls.
[20:25:01] I do think -- I'm not saying it's 10-point spread, but I do think there is a three or four-point average of folks who are scared to be inside the basket of deplorables, alongside Andre and I.
(LAUGHTER)
PRESS: Adorable deplorables.
COOPER: You're not in our basket of the deplorables. I want to play something that vice president said on the trail today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He said because I'm famous, because I'm a star, because I'm a billionaire. I can do things other people can't. What a disgusting assertion for anyone to make. The press always asks me, don't I wish I were debating him? No I wish we were in high school, I could take him behind the gym. That is what I wish.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Kayleigh, what do you make of Biden there?
MCENANY: You know, I've always taught Biden is one of the most likable Democrats I think he would have ran away with it running against Hillary Clinton. But I don't think this sort of temperament suits him, this angry tone. I think he's more effective when he takes the likeable tone. That level of anger, I mean, I just think folks who are turned off by Trump's temperament, if they are, I think would likely be turned off by that as well.
COOPER: Interesting Biden is talk about not wanting Democrats to give up on white, working class voters. And that is why in Ohio he seems to be trying to appeal to them in these closing days. Do you think he can win over some of those voting for Trump?
BAUER: He has a unique approach. I don't think that is it. Immediately that ties me to a news story a couple of days ago where the Democrats are inciting violence at Trump rallies. I mean, I would immediately tie those together and say, look, they are talking about violence.
He wants to take Trump out back to the woodshed. I mean, again, I think he's a better surrogate doing other things. I don't think he should do that. I think she was spot on. He's -- people like him and when he's likable. When he has that persona he's much better at delivering his message than a hostile and aggravated vice president.
JEAN-PIERRE: Anderson?
COOPER: Yes, Karine?
JEAN-PIERRE: I just want to say I had an opportunity to work with Joe Biden when I was in the White House the first couple of years of Obama's term. And look, the thing we have to understand is Joe Biden has spent his entire career fighting for women, fighting against sexual assault. And I think hearing these accusations, you know, against Donald Trump, it really has troubled him, right?
And what you are seeing is just the emotion, the reaction from that. This is -- like I said, this is someone who has put forth legislation. Seriously he has. He's put his entire life --
(CROSSTALK)
BAUER: -- Ted Kennedy raped a woman in that capitol grill --
(CROSSTALK)
BAUER: -- out back in the Senate building --
JEAN-PIERR: I'm not talking about the folks you just mentioned.
WATSON: The one thing I would jump in and say, though, is Kayleigh talked about the fact that there maybe three or four points of people who aren't speaking up. I actually think it could flip the other way actually. As you see more people step away from him, and I watched Pat Toomey in Pennsylvania.
Pat Toomey, the Senate candidate, in Pennsylvania, steps away from him, I think this could break the other way. I think Hillary Clinton could have the biggest win since Reagan in '84. The first double- digit win we've seen in thirty years. COOPER: Eighteen days left to win over voters. Donald Trump trailing
Hillary Clinton by 50 points among Latinos. We'll talk to Univision anchor Jorge Ramos about why that is and how Trump's remarks about that bad hombres may play in the days ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:23] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Just 18 days to go, the Clinton campaign is making a major push in Arizona, one of the red states though hoping to turn it blue. A new poll released this week showed Clinton leading Trump by five points there in a four-way race, 43 percent and 38 percent. The poll was done before Wednesday's final presidential debate when Trump said this about undocumented immigrants.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We're going to secure the border and once the border is secured, at a later date we'll make a determination as to the rest. But we have some bad hombres here and we're going to get them out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The Clinton campaign is hoping to leverage Trump's comments about immigrants to drive turnout among Latinos in Arizona whether the tactic will actually work that's an open question. Today Randi Kaye talked to group of Latino voters in the state of Arizona.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDI KAYE, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: How many of you are voting for Donald Trump? Two. and how many of you are voting for Hillary Clinton? Three.
In Phoenix, this group of Latino voters we gathered at Arizona State University is split on who they want to be president despite Trump's hard line on immigration and comments about the Latino community, some are supporting him because of his business background.
Why do you think Donald Trump would create jobs or help the economy for the Latino population.
SERGIO ARELLANO, AZGOP LATINO ENGAGEMENT: He's a south may businessman. He's an entrepreneur. He creates jobs.
FRANCISCO MENDOZA, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Just because you are going to get a job from him or some Mexicans or Hispanics are going to take jobs? At what price? What is going to be the nature of the United States now after if he -- of course he's not but he may but something happens and if he wins. He's going to be a disaster.
KAYE: And what about the wall Trump wants to build at the border with Mexico? On that, our group was also split. This woman wants immigration reform instead. DEEDEE GARCIA, CLINTON SUPPORTER: If you're going to build a wall they are going to build tunnels, so let's just focus on the problem and take care of it once and for all.
KAYE: Trump's talk of a deportation force rounding up millions of illegal immigrants and shipping them out of the U.S. has also turned off some voters.
If Donald Trump does win and we do have a deportation force, what would that look like and how would you feel about it?
LYDIA HERNANDEZ, CLINTON SUPPORTER: That's going to be chaotic. It would put us in a crisis mode.
KAYE: Those in our group voting Clinton like that she isn't looking to separate immigrant families. Why should they be able to stay here illegally though if they came here illegally? Why ...
GARCIA: I'm for family. I'm for grandmothers being close to their grandchildren and keeping the family together. It's inhumane to force families apart.
KAYE: The latest Arizona State University polls show Hillary Clinton leading Donald Trump by five points which has both campaigns heavily targeting Latinos.
[20:35:00] The divide among them became even more clear as the conversation among our group grew more heated today.
MENDOZA: And then?
ARTURO OLIVAS, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Why does it hurt you so much when you're talking about Mexico? Are you a Mexican from Mexico and are you loyal to Mexico or are you loyal to United States? I am an American citizen, what are you?
MENDOZA: I am talking here about ...
OLIVAS: I'm asking a question. You differ to just an answer. What are you?
MENDOZA: I am a U.S. citizen. I was born in the United States.
KAYE: As a member of the Latino community how can you be voting for Donald Trump? A lot of people can't understand that. What you do say?
ARELLANO: What I say is look, look at what you have these past eight years we're talking about Nogales, Arizona, Douglas, Yuma. It is impoverished. These Hispanics has seen nothing bout Democratic rule for over 20 years. Impoverished, there's no jobs, the economy and the infrastructure is gone. They're tired of it.
KAYE: Those saying no thanks to Trump are tired of his pandering to the Latino community such as when he tweeted this picture of himself on Sinco de Mayo eating a taco salad. The caption read "I Love Hispanics."
MENDOZA: He's not a good representation for the United States. Donald Trump is not what United States is all about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And Randi joins us now from Phoenix. So clearly the group there was divided. But were there any issues they agreed on?
KAYE: Well, you heard it there. You could tell they were certainly split on the building of the wall. But one thing they do agree on, Anderson, is the fact that the border needs to be secure. They all agree that there are criminals coming across, some bad people, drugs included. The question though here is how to do it, what to do about it because the border is a very, very touchy subject here in this community.
That's because many Latinos here know people who have come across illegally. They know people who are living here illegally and they're very concerned about what Trump plans to do to get rid of those people.
And there was also some concern about what they call Donald Trump's broad brush of the Latino community. They feel as though he's painting all of them as criminals and rapists and they're certainly not happy about that.
But the trump supporters who we did speak to today, they said, you know what, their number one concern isn't even the border, or the wall, or immigration. They care most about the economy and jobs, Anderson. And they really believe that Donald Trump is the guy to turn things around, bring the jobs back to get the wealth back into the Latino community here, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Randi, thanks very much.
14 months ago, long before Donald Trump had won the Republican nomination, he had discussed that with Univision One anchor Jorge Ramos at a press conference in Iowa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Excuse me, sit down you weren't called. Sit down. Sit down. Sit down. Go ahead. No you don't. You haven't been called. Go back to Univision. Go ahead. Go ahead. Sit down, please. You weren't called. Yes, go ahead. Hi, Jim, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, Ramos was eventually allowed back into the room, gotten to an exchange with Trump over immigration. I spoke to Ramos earlier about the election. His new documentary "Hate Rising" which focuses on the hate groups that have embraced the Trump campaign. We started with the fact that Hillary Clinton is ahead by five points in Arizona in recent polls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The fact that Arizona which has only gone with the Democrat twice in the last 60 years could go to Hillary Clinton. What does that say to you about the failure of Donald Trump to reach out to Hispanic and Latino voters.
JORGE RAMOS, UNIVISION ANCHOR: I think it means that bad hombres doesn't work. It means that if you continuously use stereotypes to describe Latinos and immigrants, it isn't going to work. I saw the last poll in NBC and the Wall Street Journal, Donald Trump going down at 17 percent.
COOPER: But Mitt Romney got 27 percent.
RAMOS: Correct, 27 percent and he lost in 2012. McCain got 31 percent in 2008 and he lost. So with 17 percent of Hispanic vote, it is impossible that you can win.
So here, we have two theories. Donald Trump believes that he can win only with the white vote and then the rest of the country and the trend.
In 2044, whites non-Hispanics will become a minority -- another minority. The trend is well underway. It's been shown on politics. So if you keep on saying Latinos are bad hombres, criminal, rapists, you cannot say OK you are a rapist but please vote for me. It doesn't work that way.
COOPER: Do you think -- does this impact the Republican Party or moving forward? Or do you think this is just particular Donald Trump because the Republican Party did identify this as a problem in their autopsy after Mitt Romney lost?
RAMOS: They really haven't learned their lesson. After Mitt Romney lost they clearly understood, we thought they had clearly understood that they needed to do something with Latinos. George Bush did understand.
COOPER: Right.
RAMOS: Karl Rove did understand that. He got 44 percent of the Hispanic vote at one point. And then, I think it took them too long to put a distance between them and Donald Trump.
[20:40:02] And now they will be remembered as the party of Donald Trump. It is going to be terrible for the Republican Party for generations.
COOPER: Well, that's -- you think this could have a generational impact on the party?
RAMOS: I think so. I think so because I think we will be judged as journalists and politicians will be judged by how we reacted to Donald Trump. This is I think a McCarthy momentum. This is one of those historical moments where we have to say I reject racism. I reject discrimination, I reject sexism. And when a party, a major party decides just to stand by the lines and not be really assertive, I think people will remember.
COOPER: What about the Democrats? I mean do you think they have done -- clearly they have done a more effective job of reaching out but do you think they've done enough? When we look at Hillary Clinton even among millennial -- and she's obviously leading among Latino voters but among millennials in the Latino community there is sort of lack of enthusiasm.
RAMOS: I agree with you. She lacks enthusiasm. And but the thing is that this selection I think is going to be up lever side on Trump. Yes on Trump or no on Trump.
COOPER: And you think Latino voters are going to come out because of that.
RAMOS: Simply because of that. Now, on the other hand many times Democrats are taking Latinos for granted. Look, what happened with President Barack Obama. He promised that he was going to do immigration reform during the first year. He didn't do it. And not only that, he has deported more immigrants, 2.5 million, more than any other president in the history of the United States.
So here you have a president who got a massive support of Latinos and then he got backed up but that's about it. And Hillary Clinton by the way, she promised not to deport children and not to deport ...
COOPER: At your debate ...
RAMOS: Exactly.
COOPER: ... you pinned her down.
RAMOS: So we'll remember that she promised she's not going to deport any immigrant who does not have a criminal record.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I talked to Jorge about a lot more, including Donald Trump's bad hombres remark at Wednesday's debate. The rest of the interview is just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:45:51] COOPER: Throughout the campaign Donald Trump has said repeatedly that Latinos love him even in the face of polling that says otherwise. We had a chance to mend fences his supporter voting block during Wednesday's final debate and then there was this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: One of my first acts to be to get all of the drug lords, all of the bad ones. We have some bad, bad people in this country that have to go out. We're going to get them out. We're going to secure the border and once the border is secured at a later date we'll have to make a determination as to the rest. But we have some bad hombres here and we're going to get them out. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Jorge Ramos talked about that when I met with him earlier today. Here is the rest of our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Do -- when you heard Donald Trump say bad hombre at -- first I actually thought he said bad ombre meaning hunger.
RAMOS: Hunger.
COOPER: Right. So I was like, I don't think he said ombre right. But anyway ...
RAMOS: Spanish is not ...
COOPER: No, but ...
RAMOS: ... it is not a bad word but as it's a stereotype. Again, the Latino community is full of Hombres Buenos, not bad hombres. All the studies that I've seen conclude that immigrants are less likely to be criminals or to be behind bars in comparison to native born.
COOPER: It was so interesting that we had a panel discussing it afterwards and the two Trump supporters on it were sort of saying look, Patty Solis Doyle was on who was saying she was offended by the use of that -- by Donald Trump using the only Spanish he's ever spoken that's what he was saying.
And the two Trump supporters were saying you are just being too politically correct, you know, it's not offensive at all. I do really think if somebody is offended you sort of stop and listen to them and sort of try to think and see things from their perspective rather than tell them what they should and shouldn't be offended by.
RAMOS: Yeah. It is not a bad word but he's simply using stereotypes. So it is very complicated for him to get the Latino vote. He does not have the Latino vote. He doesn't.
COOPER: You've been working on a documentary "Hate Rising" ...
RAMOS: Yeah.
COOPER: ... which is just coming out really looking at sort of the rise of neo-nazi groups, the rise of white supremacist groups in the wake of this election. I mean what have you found?
RAMOS: I found that, that hate is rising. The number of hate groups in the United States reached last year almost 900 of DPTs from the unity forces.
COOPER: And it already -- once Barack Obama took office it had already started to grow.
RAMOS: Actually but the year which Donald Trump announced his candidacy the chapters of the Ku Klux Klan grew from 72 to 190. Last year, 20 people were killed by white supremacists, 63 mosques were attacked. So we are seeing an increase in numbers of hate groups here.
Now, not only that, it's social media, where you see also these attacks. And I had the opportunity to talk to victims. One Somali immigrant, she was speaking Schwa hili with her family because she grew up in Kenya, and then a couple by their side in a restaurant, one of them took a glass of beer and smash into her face simply because she wasn't speaking English.
One Mexican immigrant got attacked -- brutally attacked by two brothers in Boston simply because he was a Mexican immigrant. That's happening right now.
So -- and it seems that Donald Trump allowed them to say things that before were only being spoken at home.
I interviewed an imperial wizard of the Ku Klux Klan who told me that simply because he's white and I'm Latino that he was superior to me.
And then I went to Ohio, for instance, to talk to a group of neo-nazis and white supremacists, and I didn't say a word on this for three hours because it was not safe for me to say anything had they discovered that I was an immigrant, I mean they were armed, they were drinking. I don't know what would have happened. So the director of the film told me, "Please, don't talk." And I didn't.
COOPER: Did you just say you were me?
RAMOS: I said I was your older brother. All the time they say that.
COOPER: Yeah, I get that as well.
RAMOS: It's going to happen again, you know.
COOPER: What do you hope people watching this -- what do you hope they take away from it?
RAMOS: Well, that it is dangerous, that, unfortunately, regardless of who wins this election that hate is here.
[20:50:04] And I'm really concerned that all these expressions of hate are going to continue because, first people think about it. then they express it. and then they act upon it. I don't think it's going to end. I think it's going to take many, many years to repair the damage done during this election.
COOPER: All right, "Hate Rising"?
RAMOS: "Hate Rising".
COOPER: Jorge Ramos, thanks so much.
RAMOS: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, coming up Donald Trump has said time and time again that the election is rigged and he won't say that he'll accept the results unless he wins. Does he have legal liabilities to stand on? We'll explore that, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Donald Trump raised a lot of eyebrows in the last debate when he refused to say he'd accept the election results that he was going to quote, "look at it at the time and keep you in suspense". Since then, he said he'd accept the results if he wins. And he's constantly saying on the campaign trail that the whole thing is rigged.
This is from today in Pennsylvania.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Remember folks, it's a rigged system, just remember. It's a rigged system. It's a rigged system. Don't ever forget it. That's why you've got to get out and vote. You've got to watch, because this system is totally rigged.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, if he loses, there's no way for him to legally challenge the election results nationally. It would come down to asking for recounts in individual states, a process that's very expensive and historically, unsuccessful. Tom Foreman joins us with more. Tom?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, each state has its own rules for recounts, and they contain many, many complicated details. But in general, this is how it works.
[20:55:00] There are 20 states plus the District of Columbia, which call for automatic recounts, if you have a very close vote. For example, in Michigan, if it's less than 2,000 votes separating the winner and loser, automatic recount beyond that, 43 states that would allow the candidates to petition for a recount. There are five states out there that allow the parties to ask for a recount. And beyond that, you could have 17 states that let voters do it.
But this could be a very expensive proposition. For example, the State of Washington had a gubernatorial race with a recount in 2004. It cost more than $1 million in the Seattle area alone, it was about $0.60 per ballot. There was a recount in Minnesota, in a Senatorial race in 2008 that was $460,000. And we all remember Florida back in 2000, the Bush/Gore race down there. There was a state recount going on it was stopped by the courts, but "Usa Today" and "The Miami Herald" went ahead and did their own recount of just 60,000 disputed ballots. It took three months and cost $500,000, Anderson.
COOPER: So how often do these happen and who pays for all of that, taxpayers? FOREMAN: Well, they're not really common. There's a group called fairvote.org that look at voting practices and they take a look at all of the votes that happened at the statewide level from 2000 to 2012, and they found the number of recounts out of hundreds and hundreds of races, just 19.
Now, generally, if it's an automatic recount, yeah, the state may pay for it. But if it's requested by somebody, the requester pays for that recount, unless, in some cases, it's proven that the, originally vote was fatally flawed.
So they're taking a real risk if you want to launch into this. Here's why it's a risk and fairvote analyzed the results of this. They found that the recount of the hundreds of races, the difference between the original vote and the recount vote was this, a tiny, tiny sliver of 1 percent and the number of times out of all of those races and the very few times you get a recount that they actually managed to flip something around, a total of three times was the result reversed in the end there.
So it is a real long shot to say, "I'm going to call for some kind of recount and hope for a really different result." Anderson?
COOPER: All right. Tom Foreman. Tom, thanks.
Well, up next, it is the end of one of the final few weeks of campaigning. a long week, perhaps even longer for Donald Trump, with Hillary Clinton leading in both national polls and key battleground states. We'll have the latest on both candidates and the turmoil in the Republican Party in the next hour of "360".
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