Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Second Trump Impeachment Trial; Interview With Sen. Angus King (I-ME); Democrats Lay Out Their Case Against Trump Using His Own Words, Tweets And Chilling Video Of Insurrection; Impeachment Managers Show New Security Footage Of Riot; New Video Helping Investigators In Search For Suspects In U.S. Capitol Police Officer's Death; Impeachment Manager: Trump Was The "Inciter-In-Chief"; GOP Sen. Graham On Insurrection: "I Got Mad" But Dems' Legal Theory Against Trump Is Absurd. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 10, 2021 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: It should give the senators pause that this was about stopping the peaceful transfer of power. That is different from riots in Portland and in Seattle. It's different.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Indeed it is. And we're going to have much more ahead on the Trump impeachment trial. Anderson Cooper continues our coverage right now.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Tonight, for the first time in the nation's history, senators saw and heard evidence that a President of the United States incited a mob to breach the Capitol, overturn a free and fair election and kill them. Using never before seen video and newly revealed audio of the assault, House Impeachment Managers attempted to make it as hard as possible for Senate Republicans to acquit the former President.
Whether they succeed in securing conviction remains unclear, but succeed or fail, their presentation today will likely shape, if not define how future generations remember the 45th President of the United States.
We want to warn you what you will hear is some profanity in some of the new material and you will see writ large the obscenity visited on the seat of American democracy on January 6th.
This is audio the House Managers played today from Capitol Police officers calling for help as their positions were being overrun.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
OFFICER: Cruiser 50, I copy. We're still taking rocks, bottles and pieces of flag and metal pole. Cruiser 50, the crowd is using munitions against us. They have -- bear spray in the crowd. Bear spray in the crowd.
DISPATCH: 132B. OFFICER: Multiple deployments. U.S. Capitol with pepper spray
(inaudible). DSO. DSO. I need a re-up. I need a re-up up here.
OFFICER: Cruiser 50. We lost the line. We've lost the line. All MPD, pull back. All MPD pull back up to the upper deck. All MPD, pull back to the upper deck ASAP. All MPD, come back to upper deck. Upper deck. Cruiser 50, we've flanked 10-33. I repeat 10-33 west front of the Capitol. We've been flanked and we've lost the line.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: "We've lost the line." Those weren't American soldiers serving a war overseas with an enemy, a foreign enemy entering past their lines. Those were American police officers being attacked by Americans spurred on by the President.
Police were trampled that day, beaten, one was nearly crushed to death. Yet, despite being outnumbered and overrun, their bravery cannot be overstated, and we saw that today, time and time again in videos.
Impeachment Manager Stacey Plaskett showed new video of Officer Eugene Goodman. Here he is running as the mob enters the Capitol. He encounters Senator Mitt Romney and heads him in the other direction out of harm's way, and then he went to another floor where you'll recall, he lured and confronted a crowd, a mob away from the Senate Chamber up a flight of stairs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): You know how close you came to the mob. Some of you, I understand, could hear them. But most of the public does not know how close these rioters came to you.
As you were moving through that hallway, I paced it off. You were just 58 steps away from where the mob was amassing and where police were rushing to stop them.
They were yelling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Also seen for the first time, this video of senators being evacuated from the Chamber again just moments and not more than steps ahead of the mob.
The managers also showed newly revealed video of the moment Vice President Pence, his family, his entourage are taken to a safe location. This was at 2:26 p.m. The Vice President fleeing for his life.
Two minutes later, at 2:24, his boss, the man he had been slavishly loyal to for more than four years was attacking him on Twitter, attacking him as a crowd of his own followers was chanting "Hang Pence" and searching as well for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, whom the attackers were also trying to find. Capitol Police managed to evacuate Pelosi, some of her staffers though
had to shelter inside a conference room. You see them rushing to that conference room right now, frayed. This video was the first time we saw that video today.
They barricaded the inner door with furniture and they hid at a table while outside one of the rioters breaks open just minutes later that outer door having already broken into another portion of the office complex.
Impeachment Manager Stacey Plaskett showed the video and then played audio of one Pelosi staffer speaking on the phone, whispering as you hear thumping on the door in the background.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOICE OF PELOSI STAFFER: They're with -- we need Capitol Police come into the hallway. They're pounding on the door trying to find her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You can hear the pounding right behind. It was with new audio and video like that that House Manager sought to drive home what so many Republican senators do not seem willing to face, that this was their workplace that was invaded, their deaths.
This was their lives on the line and that lives were lost that day. As manager Eric Swalwell tried to make that point as he showed video of the shooting of one of the attackers followed by video of what House members were going through just steps away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SWALWELL: At 2:44 p.m., Ashli Babbitt attempted to climb through a shattered window into the House lobby. To protect the members in the lobby, an officer discharged his weapon and she was killed.
I want to warn everyone that the next video, which shows her death is graphic.
SWALWELL: Inside the Chamber, representatives, staff and journalists remain trapped in the gallery, one floor above the House floor and heard the gunshot.
My colleague, Representative Dan Kildee produced this recording.
Out of fear that they'd be seen or taken by the mob, my colleagues were telling each other to take off their congressional pins. That buzzing sound that you hear in the background of these videos, was the sound of the gas masks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It was an all-searing day, a shocking day, choose your adjective, it was all of the above. The question remains though, was it enough to persuade Republican senators to vote to convict? We'll have the latest reporting on that as well as the former
President's reaction to the day, but more right now from CNN's Jeff Zeleny who has been at the Capitol all day.
Jeff, you're watching -- I know the reaction of many of the Republican senators to what they were hearing and seeing. We weren't able to see it because maybe you could explain why it wasn't arguing, it was a negotiation decided by the Senate.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Right. It is the rules of the Senate that were not changed for this, that senators are not seen in this proceeding. So think of it like a criminal trial where cameras are not allowed.
So there is a sketch artist that is drawing sketches of these senators, and a handful of reporters are able to sit in and watch the senators and we saw, you know, a variety of Republican senators, not necessarily paying a lot of attention early on.
But when these dramatic videos were playing, when this sound was playing from the police radio, which really is a new soundtrack to all of this, people were paying rapt attention to a person, senators were listening and paying attention. Now it's an open question, if it changed any minds.
We've been speaking with senators after, you know, the breaks and as they are coming out and to a person, they're shaken by it, of course, Senator Lisa Murkowski, Republican of Alaska, who is likely to vote to a convict said she was very troubled by all of this reliving this, you know, once again.
Senator Mitt Romney as well, we saw that video there of him being personally affected by this, redirected by Officer Goodman.
And Anderson, we do know that Officer Eugene Goodman, who was the, you know, hero of that day, one of the many heroes of that day, he, I'm told was sitting in the Senate Chamber watching these proceedings.
Senator Rob Portman, Republican of Ohio walked up to him, and they fist bumped each other, and they were thanking him for his service. In fact, saving many of the senators and likely the Vice President as well, that may have been the most shocking part of the video seeing how close the Vice President was to actually coming face-to-face with all these rioters.
COOPER: And the House Managers showing the new security video that we hadn't seen before, and just how close these armed -- these attackers some with zip ties -- got to lawmakers, who are now the jurors in the trial.
I just can't imagine them sitting there watching this and not feeling a sense of horror. And I mean, I guess, you know, there's politics obviously involved, but you can't look at that and not just be horrified.
ZELENY: No question about it, particularly because it quite literally is the scene of the crime. Some of the very desks where the senators were sitting at were in fact ransacked by some of the rioters who came on to the Senate floor.
So, you know -- but we have to keep in mind this is an impeachment, which is, you know, essentially a political trial here. So at the end of the day, it is unlikely that many Republican senators change their mind because they do not believe, at least based on our reporting so far that the President actually directed and caused this.
ZELENY: But Anderson, this is not just about convicting President Trump or acquitting him. It's also a trial for history.
Democrats are very much aware of the fact that this is an uphill battle to convict. They would need 17 Republican senators to convict, but what this is doing is steeping that day into the historical record books in a way that it absolutely would not have been, if there was not this impeachment proceeding.
So it no question, it changes the legacy of this President and how he is viewed whether he is convicted or not.
COOPER: Jeff Zeleny, I appreciate it.
Joining us now, one of the jurors, Angus King, Independent senator from Maine. Senator King, thanks very much for being with us at the end of the long day. You were of course at the Capitol on the day of the insurrection.
Sitting there today watching video after video of what happened chronologically, different perspectives, the rioters coming just 58 steps away from you and your Senate colleagues. According to impeachment managers, Republican Senator Ted Cruz said he doesn't think it adequately connects the former President to the attack to prove he committed high crimes and misdemeanors.
Do you believe the former President is to blame and should be convicted?
SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME): Well, I'd refer my friend Ted Cruz to our old law school, we went to different law schools together, I guess you would say and ask him the question, but for -- that's the question that law professors ask. Would it have happened but for -- and I don't see how any of this would have happened, but for Donald Trump's actions starting before the election, to de-legitimize the election, "The only way I can lose is if it's a fraud, if it's rigged."
And then from the period after the election all the way through to January 6, inviting people there. It was clear that the whole purpose of that rally was to stop the count. January 6 wasn't chosen as a random date. That was the date that was set for the Congress to certify the final results of the election.
So I don't see how you can answer that question and say, what if Donald Trump had conceded graciously at the end of November and said, we are going to live to fight another day, I'll run in four years -- would that have happened? And I don't think there's much doubt that it wouldn't have.
It was -- it was -- his handprints were on this beginning to end.
COOPER: I mean, if the crowd had caught Mike Pence, if the crowd had caught and killed Mike Pence, would that make any difference in terms of the vote in this among those Republican senators?
KING: You know, I've wondered that, and I don't think there's much doubt that -- you saw that, there is a video of that crowd, they were in a frenzy, and people do things when they're in a frenzy that they wouldn't do otherwise, and I think they might have killed him or Nancy Pelosi.
Would that have mattered? I think so. But it shouldn't because the offense is the same. Five people died. One of them wasn't the Vice President, but they were human lives as well.
And I think, one of the most damning parts of the day was the last part where they went through minute by minute of what the President did, or, in fact, didn't do during the afternoon during the riot that was going on in the Capitol.
He never said stop in a lot of his tweets earlier. You know, months earlier, he said, stop the steal, stop the rigging, stop -- he knew how to say stop, but he never did in the midst of this dangerous riot.
And in fact, when they were going after Mike Pence and he had to know that Mike Pence was a target and was in danger, he tweeted an attack on Mike Pence.
I thought that the passage of that afternoon and what he did and didn't do was really one of the most damning parts of the entire day.
COOPER: And of course, the first time he did speak that day, you know, he said that he loved the people who did this, that they were very fine or very special people, I should say. CNN is reporting that the former President's legal team is expected to argue that House Impeachment Managers were glorifying violence in their re-creation of the Capitol insurrection.
Does that make any sense to you other than just grasping at straws?
KING: No, I mean, the violence happened, and the film is the film, and we know that it happened, I mean, we were here. This is a very odd trial, Anderson, that's taking place before a hundred people who were witnesses in the midst of the crime scene. The Senate floor was part of the crime scene.
So everybody knows what happened. And we've seen the -- we've seen the film. The other thing that came through to me, Anderson was what a close call this was.
It was a close call physically for the senators, for the staff, for the people in the Capitol. Certainly, for the Capitol Police. It could have been -- it was -- it was within a few feet of being a really even worse catastrophe.
But also, Anderson, it was a close call for democracy and that's what really this case is all about. This case is all about are we going to be a country that abides by elections and has a peaceful transfer of power?
KING: One of the things I did mention in 1961, and then in 2001, we had two Vice Presidents who had lost the election who certified the person who beat them, Nixon and Gore.
They were in Pence's seat and certified the election that they had lost. Now, you know, that's the way this country is supposed to work.
This is the first time in American history we've had this kind of deliberate efforts to undermine the results of an election in every level, intimidating local officials, legislators, frivolous lawsuits, and then finally, a riot designed to stop the counting of the electoral votes.
COOPER: You know, one of the House Managers earlier in the day said something that I just -- it really stuck with me. She talked about 9/11, and, you know, 20 years ago, and that on that day, there was a plane headed for the Capitol, and the passengers on that plane stopped it, 44 passengers on that plane rushed the cockpit to commandeer the aircraft against the terrorists, and the plane crash in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, and we honor them every year as we should.
But the sacrifice that, you know, several dozen people were willing to make for people they didn't know in the Capitol, and for -- but for the Capitol itself, or, you know, the White House, for Washington, D.C. itself, and the sacrifice made by the police officers, some of whom were no doubt supporters of President Trump, but they were they're doing their duty, and that --
KING: To defend -- to defend the Capitol, those people in that airplane.
COOPER: Yes. And that these attackers rifled through the desk of some of the Republican senators who are sitting there watching all this, and they're not going to do anything about it to defend the Capitol.
KING: Well, the only -- the other thing that occurred to me was that that our democracy in some ways was saved by Republican officeholders like Raffensperger in Georgia or the fellow up in Michigan, the Republican certifier of the election, you know, that Republican officials around the country, the legislators from Pennsylvania and Michigan that refused the President's entreaties to reopen the election, the Governor of Georgia, all Republicans.
And I'm thinking about, well, this room is full of Republicans, what's the difference between the Secretary of State of Georgia and my colleagues in the room today? He was willing to step up and say, you know, this is -- this is wrong, and he did his duty. And I think in some ways, he is one of the heroes of this whole thing,
and I just -- I hope that my friends across the aisle will channel him and think about -- and think about those people, as you pointed out, who literally gave their lives to save the United States Capitol.
And I just again, to go back to your very first question, you know, well, this was just a crowd that happened to be here, and they were bad guys, and they broke into the Capitol, that just ignores all the context and the involvement of Donald Trump going back even before the election. And I think, today's case was very strong.
Now, I haven't heard that defense yet. They are going to have their time in court, and they're going to be able to make their case, but I thought today was pretty powerful, and particularly in light of the fact that the very people in that room were threatened by these actions.
COOPER: Senator King, I appreciate your time. Thank you, sir.
KING: Thank you.
COOPER: Reaction now from the President and the defendants. CNN's Kaitlan Collins is at the White House and Jim Acosta is just outside Mar-a-Lago.
Jim, this new video played by the House Managers today showing former Vice President Pence and his family being whisked away as the mob was within a hundred feet of where him and his family were sheltering in place.
It was certainly -- you know, it's terrifying, just to watch it to know that the former President also had then just, you know, in those moments tweeted against the Vice President, adds, you know, insults and even more horror to it.
Do we know whether the former President had any reaction to that or the rest of today's proceedings?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, at this point, what we're hearing is that the former President believes he is going to be acquitted in all of this and he is resting that on the fact that I think we can call it a fact at this point that we're just not going to see enough Republicans to vote to convict the former President of inciting this insurrection.
But what I'm hearing from my sources, Anderson, is that Donald Trump still does not feel any remorse for what happened on January 6th, as incredible or perhaps as believable as that sounds.
And one of the awful aspects of all of this that he is not remorseful about it is what happened to Vice President Mike Pence. When you see that footage of the Vice President at the time and his family being whisked away by the Secret Service, it is -- it is an affirmation of what I heard from Pence aides at the time, he said, they were furious with Donald Trump because he had been sending out those tweets.
ACOSTA: First of all, he was trying to strong arm the Vice President into overturning the election results, and then he suddenly -- suddenly sent them off to, you know, to the lions, when he was up on Capitol Hill there to preside over the official counting of the electoral votes.
And you know, when you talk to Pence people to this day, they are still just furious about that. And by and large, because of that tweet that you just mentioned, Anderson, as the Vice President was in danger, and as he was being whisked away, or around the time he was being whisked away by Secret Service, the President was going after him on Twitter, which as we know, Anderson, talking to those Trump supporters that day and hearing from those Trump supporters that day, they were paying attention to just about everything that Donald Trump was tweeting at that time.
COOPER: Kaitlan, has there been any response from the White House on what we've been seeing?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, not really. They are really trying to keep their distance from what is happening, but you can't really be that removed from it.
Because of course, President Biden is in a remarkable and historical situation where it's his first hundred days in office. He is having to deal with the impeachment trial of his predecessor, and they say it's not affecting his agenda, but it is even down to his schedule.
Because look, tomorrow, he has a meeting with a bipartisan group of senators in the Oval Office at 10:00 a.m. That's just two hours before Day Three of this trial is going to get started.
So it really is this sense that Donald Trump and this trial are really hanging over everything in Washington, and that includes the White House and the agenda that they're trying to push through.
So they've tried to not answer on it. Yesterday, President Biden told me that was the last time he was going to comment on it for now, as he had said all he had to say on impeachment, but whether or not he gets asked when he is sitting with the very audience tomorrow, that is going to have to vote in a few days whether to convict or acquit Donald Trump, it still remains to be seen.
COOPER: Jim, former Vice President Pence was obviously the focus, as we talked about a lot today. As of now, there's no sign of witnesses being called. If they were called, would Pence possibly join as a witness in this trial? It seems unlikely.
ACOSTA: It is unlikely, and we are told by our sources, Anderson, that we should not expect that to happen and that the Vice President, former Vice President at this point, just wants to lay low and get through all of this.
But make no mistake, you know, the Vice President's relationship with Donald Trump is still damaged. I talked to a source familiar with this relationship earlier this evening, who said they have still not patched up this relationship but at the time, when they had this long conversation about what happened on January 6, they essentially just decided to try to get to January 20 and hand off the White House to the incoming President at the time, Joe Biden.
Not that we are going to, you know, cry a river over the relationship between the former Vice President and the former President, but Anderson -- and you were just talking about this earlier -- of how this is all going to stand when it comes to history.
The fact that the President of the United States would put his Vice President in that kind of position, no matter what their relationship was ever like in the past, it is staggering to think about to this day to see that video, which encapsulated, essentially what Donald Trump was doing to Mike Pence at that time.
COOPER: Yes, staggering. But, you know, sadly, not surprising given what we know about the former President.
Kaitlan Collins, thank you. Jim Acosta, thanks.
Let's get perspective now from our CNN legal analyst and impeachment law specialist, Ross Garber; also CNN chief political analyst, Gloria Borger; pulling at the law firm tonight, CNN legal analyst, Norm Eisen who took part in the first impeachment and Laura Coates, a former Federal prosecutor.
Ross, I know earlier today you said you were watching the impeach managers' presentations from the perspective of someone who is undecided. Day Two, how do you see things?
ROSS GARBER, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I'm actually watching it from the perspective of somebody who has defended impeachments, and yesterday, I thought the managers did a terrific job.
Today, I thought they also did just an amazing job of weaving together, you know, facts and emotion and videotape and audio and all of those things.
And, you know, yesterday was about legal niceties, jurisdiction and First Amendment. Today was stripping it all away. This isn't a technically legal proceeding, it is a constitutional proceeding.
And, you know, I dare anybody to watch the presentation that they put on today and not feel moved. Anybody who cares about the country, who cares about the Capitol, who has, you know family members that they can picture, you know, in that building.
And one of the things I think that the managers did very skillfully, is they made clear or they tried to make clear this isn't a partisan issue.
You know, they had video of staffers in danger. They had video of police officers. We don't know if the police officers are Republicans or Democrats. We don't know. They had video of Senator Romney being saved by a Capitol Police
officer. They had video of Vice President Pence, you know, being escorted out of the building and the fact that he was in danger.
GARBER: And so, I think the managers did a very, very good job of laying all that out and doing it in a non-partisan way.
Again, I want to see what Trump has to say about this and you know, what his legal team's response is. But today, I think was a homerun for the managers.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it was -- I think it was too. To me, it was -- it was like watching an anatomy of a crime, and it was sort of peeling back this month-long project of Donald Trump who first claimed he is the demagogue saying there was a rigged election, then he was someone trying to convince election officials that they ought to lie about this election and who won, for example, in the State of Georgia with Brad Raffensperger.
And then it was about the transformation of this demagogue into an insurrectionist and into somebody who -- for whom winning was so important that he could not bring himself to criticize the people who were invading the Capitol and threatening the lives of his Vice President and the Speaker of the House and instead, thanked them.
And as Congressman Castro said, "On January 6th, Trump left everyone in the Capitol for dead."
And when you have that picture in your mind, and you've seen the videos, and you understand that Donald Trump is somebody who tweets 50 times a day, at least at that point and he was silent for hours while this was going on, you have to raise a question about did he want it to happen?
And would it have ever happened without him and without his lies? And the answer to that is no.
COOPER: And Laura, I mean, they really laid out not only the chronology of events, but the chronology of how the President reacted to the events or as much as they could.
LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This was as much about what he did, as what he didn't do. The actions he took in preparation for January 6th, as what he chose not to do during the actual insurrection.
I mean, imagine a President knowing that the Legislative Branch is under attack. And he waits sits idly by, does nothing, makes telephone calls to ask about how they're going to vote on a largely ceremonial certification. I mean, that is not somebody honoring their duty and office.
And remember, a high crime and misdemeanor is not about tying it specifically to a particular crime in the Criminal Code. It is also about the misbehaviors of an elected official of the Executive Branch. And surely under any criteria, a President watching the Congress being
under attack and doing nothing -- that is certainly a high crime and misdemeanor.
COOPER: In fact, let's play the first video we saw of the President, which was still during while there were folks attacking the Capitol, this was hours into it. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This was a fraudulent election, but we can't play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace.
So go home. We love you. You're very special. You've seen what happens. You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, Laura, do those words have even more meaning now?
COATES: They absolutely do. That is essentially saying, atta-boy, good for you. Let me hedge and do a CYA video here. But really, I'm giving you a wink and a nod that you're doing the right thing. I know how you feel.
The commiseration, the idea of calling people evil, the very people that they have tried to now attack, they are scurrying away with the Capitol Police. I mean, the notion that the President is saying these things, and obviously intentionally aloof that there is actual extraordinary violence going on.
This is a continuation, I think that Representative Plaskett did very well, when they essentially said that the President of the United States uses these winks and nods as affirmation, the idea of the word patriot being code word for you're doing what I'd like you to do for me.
That is turning the Commander-in-Chief into somebody who commands a mob.
COOPER: Also, just again, when it comes back to, if this was any other group, if this was black Americans assaulting the Capitol or Muslim- Americans assaulting the Capitol, is that the message the President would have put out afterward, "You're very special people. I love you."
BORGER: Law and order.
COATES: I mean, of course not, I mean, first of all, you would have seen unfortunately with the reality of America, you would have seen hundreds of hashtags that preceded the names of black Americans in this country, of Muslim Americans and those are the ones who stayed at the rally and didn't become insurrectionists.
The idea here that we saw the distinction between how the police treated -- and again, they were outnumbered. I'm not going to minimize the notion that they were outnumbered. They were out gun that they had gallows, they could not defend and repel the attack.
But you see here, what the President affirms as appropriate behavior, who he decides and designates are the appropriate patriots. And as long as they are trying to act in the interest of the preservation of his power, as opposed to those who are actually in many instances legitimately commenting on abuses of power. I mean, it is surreal to continue to watch this.
And every time I saw this Anderson today, my stomach tied it and not as hedged myself. You know, the question that Jamie Raskin asked earlier, is this America? Well, it was that day, and it might still be.
COOPER: Well, and also, you know, Norm, the, with the what preceded this was shown very clearly today, you know, one of those events, which, you know, kind of has gotten lost in all this is the assault on the Michigan State House by armed, you know, a lot of the same folks in tactical gear or, you know, arm screaming, getting the face of law enforcement, you know, screaming to apprehend the, you know, legislators in Michigan. Again, the president praised them, as, you know, great people as patriots.
EISEN: It is the same attitude, as was evinced in that video, not the commander-in-chief, the insurrectionist-in-chief. And here's the challenge Anderson, we've fallen into a dangerous divide in our democracy. And these House managers and that trial team are heroes of democracy. They know it is going to be very tough to pursue, it shouldn't be, but it is going to be very tough to persuade Republicans to be loyal to the Constitution, and to our democracy in the Senate instead of to the insurrectionist-in-chief.
They're arguing to them, as Ross pointed out skillfully with people that they like, but they're arguing to the country Anderson, because that is where the ultimate solution lies.
BORGER: Maybe they have a couple more tricks up their sleeve. I mean, it seems to me they have to tell us what the President was doing for those five hours. Did he know, for example, that the Vice President life was being threatened?
COOPER: Well and by the way, the Secret Service, it does have communications and --
BORGER: Of course.
COOPER: -- the idea that the President can't just turned to a Secret Service often say, where exactly is the Vice President right now?
BORGER: Right. Where that wouldn't tell him those chief-of-staff, the Vice President's life is in danger. I mean, these are questions that might be answered because then it would show you that he was completely not doing as well said.
ROSS GARBER, CNN COMMENTATOR: I mean, we haven't heard anything from the President's team.
GARBER: Other than sort of this kind of general, hey, no, he was really working on stuff.
GARBER: And that's what I'm going to be looking for is to see whether they address.
EISEN: You heard a lie, because in the brief, they said the President was concerned, he was not concerned that we know for sure today.
COOPER: Ross Garber, Gloria Borger, Norm Eisen, Laura Coates. Thanks very much.
(voice-over): Coming up next. Breaking News, just now in the killing of Officer Brian Sicknick, will have a live report on that.
Also, later perspective from someone who's witnessed and reported on and helped us all make sense and more American history than anyone else we know, Dan Rather joins us tonight at "360".
COOPER: With all the attention today focused on those videos played before the Senate there's breaking news not in the depth of Capitol Hill police officer Brian Sicknick. Investigators are pointing to leads they've uncovered with the help of some new video. CNN's Evan Perez joins us now with the tail. So, what is the video federal authorities have uncovered now show?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, what this video does is it narrows the number of suspects that they believe they can focus on now. It's now that that's down to just a handful of suspects. And that's tremendous progress, actually, because we know that the investigators have been struggling to build a federal murder case in this investigation.
There has been just very little to go on. And, you know, there's so much video that you've seen obviously, but trying to see the moment that something happened to officer Sicknick which could then be used as the cause of death, use in a murder investigation. That's a lot. And so, we heard today from in some of the videos, some of the harrowing video and audio we heard in the impeachment trial, you hear some of the audio from officers saying that they were getting sprayed with bear spray.
That is one of the theories or the leading theory that investigators are working on right now, Anderson. They believe that officer Sicknick was perhaps sprayed with an irritant perhaps bear spray, and that that then caused him to collapse later on at his office. He was rushed to the hospital and he died the following day.
Again, this is still a very difficult a very complex case. But this represents some real progress. They believe that this video shows a limited number of suspects that they can work with. And again, this remains a top, top priority for investigators trying to figure out who could be charged in this murder.
COOPER: So, he actually collapsed later on after --
COOPER: -- he was at his office or how -- do we know about that?
PEREZ: Yes, so. Right. So, he's attacked at the Capitol, and he goes back to his office and that's when he is overcome by something and collapses. And then he's rushed to the hospital. And he dies the following day. So, that's the timeline that the investigators are working on.
Again, if there was anything indicating, you know, anything that that shows the attack, by now they would have charged somebody. So that's been part of the difficulty for investigators. If you remember Anderson, early on, there was some stories and reports that they thought perhaps he was hit over the head with a fire extinguisher --
PEREZ: -- that is not true. Investigators have determined that is not so. And so again that's what's so difficult about this case again, it's a top priority for investigators and they believe that they're going to get -- they're going to figure it out and they're going to be able to bring charges.
COOPER: Hold on Evan, because I just want to play the audio you were referencing where you hear the police officer -- a police officer talking about the bear spray. Let's play that right.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cruiser 50, I copy. We're still taking rocks, bottles and pieces of flag and metal pole. Cruiser 50, the crowd is using munitions against us. They have bear spray in the crowd. Bear spray in the crowd.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Multiple deployments U.S. Capitol with pepper spray (inaudible). DSO, DSO. I need a re-up. I need a re-up up here.
Cruiser 50. We lost the line. We've lost the line. All MPD, pull back. All MPD, pull back up to the upper deck. All MPD, pull back to the upper deck ASAP. All MPD, come back to the upper deck. Upper deck. Cruiser 50. We're flanked. 10-33. I repeat 10-33 west front of the Capitol. We have been flanked and we've lost the line. (END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: We've lost the line. Evan, so the new video, is that -- do you know where it came from? And is there a lot of video that hasn't been gone through? Or is it just taking time to really analyzing all the video they have?
PEREZ: Yes, I think that's the case. I think there's a lot of videos and I think one of the things that happens I there's hours of video by this point that the investigators have been going through Anderson. And what happens is sometimes you go back over things and you see things that you perhaps did not see before placed in the context of additional information. And so, that's my understanding of what has happened here.
And, you know, if you listen to some of that video, what I'm told happen again, from people who were there was that, you know, the attackers had better equipment. In some cases, they had better sprays, like, you know, the officers, obviously, they have pepper spray, and things that they can try to control a crowd.
Some of these people came with what I would what people describe as industrial strength, that pepper spray and bear spray things that spray longer distance so they could launch from a farther distance at these officers. That's what they were dealing with, in addition to the hand-to-hand combat that you've heard about.
COOPER: Well, it's also interesting, you know, impeachment manager showed the, the insurrectionists, who had his feet up on the desk and Nancy Pelosi's office, and I hadn't realized before until it was pointed out today that he actually had what authority say was a -- like a very strong taser --
COOPER: -- which is, you know, obviously some we saw a lot of what people there. Evan Perez, appreciate it.
The wake of what the Senate saw and heard today as we said at the top of program, there is praise tonight for the officers who defended the Capitol bravely. We played this video at the top of the program and its brutality is both remarkable and horrific, of course to watch.
Thankfully the officer involved has recovered and is well. Here's another look at the security video showing Capitol Police Officer Eugene Goodman, leading senator Mitt Romney indicating he should get to safety going the other direction he was heading. And Romney said tonight he had no idea he was that close to the rioters. He didn't know it was Officer Goodman until he saw the video. And he wanted to thank him. Before this evening session, Romney was talking with Goodman.
With me now to talk about the searing images that we saw today at the sacrifice as law enforcement made on January 6, Charles Ramsey, former chief of the Washington D.C. police and a CNN law enforcement analyst. And Andrew McCabe, former Deputy Director of the FBI and a CNN contributor.
Andrew with everything laid out like it was today video Capitol Police Officer Eugene Goodman warning Romney to turn back he was heading toward a group of rioters. Officers using their bodies to barricade doors so rioters couldn't break through, how much worse could that day have been if it wasn't for the actions of those law enforcement officers? Some of them, you know, all alone standing up to crowds?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You know, Anderson, there's no bottom to how bad that day could have gotten. And there is absolutely no question that that kind of spiraled towards violence. And who knows death and destruction was stopped by the heroic actions of those folks, those men and women, the officers from Capitol Police and from MPD, who were on the scene that day.
You know, we've had a lot of questions about how did law enforcement handle intelligence prior to the attack and where the proper precautions put in place? And those are good questions that we need to have answered. But let's put that aside for a minute and honor the men and women who saved the lives of those lawmakers and in several cases, their family members by simply throwing themselves into the fire. It was a remarkable, remarkable thing to watch and really (INAUDIBLE).
COOPER: Chief Ramsey, we're reporting that President Trump's legal team plans to or is considering or talking about, to argue that Democrats glorified violence stay by, by showing all the videos sort of in a chronological order and essentially, you know, recreating minute by minute as much as possible the attack on the Capitol? Is that what you saw today, glorification of violence?
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, it was just simply showing what took place. It's not glorifying violence at all, that violence actually occurred at the United States Capitol. And there's no ignoring it. I couldn't agree any more with Andrew and his comments around the heroism of the men and women of the Capitol police, the Metropolitan Police.
I mean, when they laid it out the way they did, and the timeline and they showed the video, both video from inside the Capitol, which I have not seen before, as well as video from outside capital. Over an extended period of time, you can see what they were up against. And it's absolutely remarkable.
I've been in policing a long time. I was an act of service for 47 years I started, the Vietnam War was taking place when I started and you had protests associated with the Vietnam War, which got pretty bad at times. This rivals anything that I have seen in my career.
And my head is off to the men and women of both those departments that fought valiantly to try to protect those inside the Capitol. And had they not done that. I hate to say it, but I do believe we may have lost some of our elected leaders that day because some of that crowd really had some very violent intentions apparently.
COOPER: You know, Andrew the scene we're looking at right now of them trying to get in a one entrance to the Capitol. One of the law enforcement officers earlier in the day in a video was quoted, one of the law enforcement officer who was actually dragged into that crowd had items taken off his person, they were trying to get his gun as well.
He described it almost like a siege or a battle from the Middle Ages. And just from this vantage point, and from that police officers, you know, body cam footage. It really is, you know, this archaic, almost, I mean, battle between these crowds in close quarters, and it goes on for hours.
MCCABE: For hours Anderson, can you imagine the terror of being dragged into that crowd losing you're defensive weapons, and just thinking like, am I going to live to see the other end of this thing? I mean, it was terrifying to watch on television. I can't imagine what it was like, for those folks to go through it. And they got up, they stood back in the line.
And they took that beating and did their jobs for hours and hours and hours. And I thought the presentation today wasn't a glorification of that, the presentation was the hard work of a trial. When it comes time to hold people accountable in this country, we go into court, and we present the evidence, we present the truth, and that's what they did today. It may have been a hard truth for the Republicans to watch, but it's probably a good one for them to see.
COOPER: Yes, I mean, we should feel a shame, a sense of shame about what happens and certainly, you know, those who were responsible should as well and should see what happened.
Charles Ramsey, Andrew McCabe, thank you very much.
Just ahead more on the case that House impeachment managers presented and the historical importance of the evidence they put into the record. Legendary newsman Dan Rather joins us when we return.
COOPER: The case brought by House impeachment managers today's important not only to the trial the former president, but how history will judge him as well. In the words of one impeachment manager the goal was to prove that the mob was quote, summoned, assembled and incited by the former President of United States.
Joined now by legendary newsmen, Dan Rather who's seen more than his share of historic moments is now host of The Big interview on AXS TV. He's also the co-author of What Unites Us Reflections On Patriotism, now has a newsletter available on Substack called Steady.
Dan, thanks so much for being with us. What is your reaction to the trial so far? DAN RATHER, HOST, THE BIG INTERVIEW: Well, thank you, Anderson, always good to be with you. It was a mixture of being mad being angry at the same time being sad that our country has to go through this. But, you know, we now see clearly the evidence is overwhelming.
That's absolute clary. This was an armed insurrection that happened with the Capitol on January 6. It was much more serious, much more violent than we realized at the time and we thought at the time was very violent. And sad to say, it was incited by the President of the United States.
Now, it is true that the President's defense attorneys will begin presenting their case. You're very soon had had a motion yet. But it's not a rush to judgment to say this evidence is so overwhelming that we have to move to the question. Where is the conscience of the Republican senators?
Now, you know, I recognize that most people think there's no chance at all, convict President Trump, and that may turn out to be the case. But this is a classic profile and courage, opportunity. It's a matter of -- it's an hour of decision for conscience for these senators. They know, every single one of them knows that this is not the America we want. And they also know that if we don't move to stop it now, it will be the America that we become. And this is a critical time.
You know, Anderson, with God's grace o have been around for a long time. And never have been as quite as worried about the country as I am now. I'm an optimist. I think we'll get through this, particularly if we can hold steady make right decisions. But in the two occasions before, we're worried about the country, at the very start of World War II and it looked like the Nazis and the Japanese were going to be conquerors, and then immediately in the wake of 9/11, but those threats are external threats, that they brought our country to a crisis point from the outside, this we are doing to ourselves.
So, the evidence is clear. We have the proof. We have the clarity, what we need now is the reckoning and the accountability. And we need to justice that will ring forward with generations. Far ahead of us that this cannot stand this is not the country you want to become. Once that then we can start on trying to reunite ourselves again, but efforts that unification are not going to go very far. Unless we bring this around to the conclusion that at least we decide it whatever we decide with President Trump that we've said this cannot stand, we cannot let this continue. We cannot have it happen again.
COOPER: I'm haunted by, you know, the voice we heard the police officer calling for reinforcements, and telling his fellow officers to fall back and he repeated, we lost the line. We lost the line.
That's something you hear, you know, you think about Vietnam, and, you know, a foreign enemy getting inside through American lines and inside the wire. This wasn't a foreign enemy. This was American police officers. It was American people who call themselves patriots and call themselves, you know, believers in law and order and supporters of the police attacking police. RATHER: Well will have stated that it is true that lines a haunting line. They're inside the line. Anybody who's been in the military or in the law enforcement. Will recognize how haunting that line can be. But here's the thing, this happened before a version of this happened in Michigan, you can recall. And if we didn't we as a people as a country didn't stop it in.
COOPER: And the President praised that at the time.
RATHER: And it'll happen again if we don't stop it now.
COOPER: And the President praised what happened in Michigan at the time. He tweeted about, you know, the people who went in with long gun for screaming at police officers screaming at lawmakers in Michigan and he was praising them for what they did.
RATHER: Well, there you are. That's why I say we have clarity. We have proof that the President was involved in inciting what happened on January 6.
COOPER: You tweeted that this is the trial that Republicans truly feared. How so, because from the rhetoric and many of the Republican senators so far, who are clearly just worried about, you know, getting elected again and worried about Trump's hold on the party, they don't sound that concerned.
RATHER: No, their fear was that more and more Americans were going to see actually what happened. And it was going to be embedded in the public's mind. That was their fear. Now, they have even more to fear. Because of the people who watch this. There can't be any doubt.
I agree with you. Their greatest fear now is their own personal political future. They're not putting country first. They're putting their party first and putting their own political futures first, but history will judge them very, very badly.
COOPER: Yes. Do you think -- and also, you know, when you see the loyalty that Mike Pence had to this President, I don't know -- and how the President just tossed him aside, was tweeting about him against him while he was under threat. I don't understand the loyalty that some of these Republicans have to the former president, because he will turn on them on a dime. He's already insulted many of them or their wives in the past.
RATHER: You know, Anderson, you put your finger on one of the great mysteries to me, I don't know how any Republican who's staying loyal to President Trump could do so in light of what President Trump has done with Vice President Pence. If for exactly the reasons you say, you know, what the way the President is treated Pence, given how loyal Pence as man is absolutely, you know, it's beyond my understanding, and it's certainly not something to be admired, to say the least.
COOPER: Dan Rather, I appreciate your time. It's great to see you again. You take care. RATHER: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: As you heard, Dan say one of the big questions now is what Republicans will do next.
(voice-over): Just ahead, light reaction tonight from one of the former president's biggest defenders in the Senate when we return.
COOPER: Late reaction tonight to the second day of proceedings from one of the former president's top defender Senator Lindsey Graham indicated he was underwhelmed by the case the House impeachment managers presented saying quote, I think there's more votes for acquittal after today than there was yesterday.
You saw the new evidence if that's true or not, he said, connecting Trump to the far right group the Proud Boys was quote, absurd. Video played by the House impeachment manager showed a rioter and member of the group calling the former vice president of quote total treasonous pig.
Graham also called the House case hypocritical his exact words hypocrisy is pretty large for these people. His reason he said is that rioters also once came to his House. Also, the House of the fellow Republican Senator Susan Collins, the word that they actually riot it in the House, but I guess he said people came to outside the House. He seemed to indicate somehow that that exonerates the President.
When asked if he thought that was the direction the former president's defense should take. He said, oh, yes. He then said that if he were on the former president's defense team, the House impeachment managers would be in serious trouble, quote, I'd eat them alive. Lindsey Graham. Another historic day on Capitol Hill.
Quick programming note, we'll be back live at 11:00 pm. Eastern tonight with a special edition of "360".
The news continues. Let's hand over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME". Chris.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right, Coop Thank you very much.
I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
Predictable and foreseeable. That's what House managers argued January 6 was.