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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
House GOP Leader McCarthy Caught On Hot Mic Saying "I've Had It With Her," About Rep. Cheney; White House Sets Goals To Administer At Least One Vaccine Shot To 70 Percent Of U.S. Adults By July 4; Derek Chauvin's Attorney Files Motion For New Trial; Former President Launches "From The Desk Of Donald J. Trump" Communications Tool; India COVID Cases Top 20 Million. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 04, 2021 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: The case involves one of the most violent incidents from January 6th. The viral video shows a police officer screaming in pain while being crushed in a doorway.
The men have pleaded not guilty.
So far more than 400 people have been charged in connection to the riot.
Thanks for joining us. Anderson starts now.
[20:00:23]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Last night when we began our broadcast, we said Republican House Leader Kevin McCarthy had a decision to make about whether to back or bury the third highest ranking Republican in the House, Liz Cheney who has repeatedly bucked party orthodoxy by spelling out the former President's lies about the 2020 election and never wavering from her vote to impeach him for his role in the January 6th Capitol riot.
Today, it sounds as if McCarthy has made that decision. What you're about to hear is from a hot mic conversation the Republican leader had prior to the interview this morning on FOX News. We should note that this audio has been edited and does not include the FOX news anchor's questions. He is talking about Liz Cheney. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I think she's got real problems I've had it with -- I've had it with her. It's -- you know, I've lost confidence.
Well, someone just has to bring a motion, but I assume that will probably take place.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: I should point out, it was not edited by us. We'll have more about those comments on Congresswoman Cheney's future with the party in just a moment. First, more from the actual interview and McCarthy's chief gripe about
Cheney.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCARTHY: I have heard from members concerned about her ability to carry out the job as Conference Chair, to carry out the message. We all need to be working as one if we're able to win the majority.
Remember, majorities are not given, they are earned, and that's about the message about going forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It's about the message he said and how Cheney is not on board with it. And what is that message? Well, increasingly, it is this: prostrate yourself to the former President, don't dare contradict his grab bag of lies. Pay no mind, of course, to anything people like McCarthy said in the immediate aftermath of the insurrection that the former President bears responsibility.
That's definitely not part of the message now.
Get on board or get out of the way.
But Congressman Cheney is not having it, and it is not just her. It goes for the other Republicans who voted for the President's impeachment. One, Utah Senator Mitt Romney tweeted this today, days after narrowly surviving a censure vote brought by State Republicans aligned with the former President, quote: "Every person of conscience draws a line beyond which they will not go. Liz Cheney refuses to lie.
As one of my Republican Senate colleagues said to me following my impeachment vote, 'I wouldn't want to be a member of a group that punished someone for following their conscience.'" Well, tonight, Congresswoman Cheney appears to be following her conscience and Kevin McCarthy has suggested it may cost her.
Jamie Gangel joins us now with the latest on this fight. So what is the latest you're hearing about where things stand between McCarthy and Cheney?
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: It appears that the Republican Party -- surprise, surprise -- has caved to Donald Trump and Kevin McCarthy thinks he has the votes to push Liz Cheney out.
He also -- I've heard is pushing for Elise Stefanik to replace her, who, Anderson is, again, not a surprise a Trump loyalist.
A little while ago, I spoke to someone familiar with Liz Cheney's thinking about all of this and I was told quote: "It is not a surprise. She knew this was coming. She is not afraid of the consequences. The stakes are too high." Translation, she is ready to move on. This is about principle over politics and I am told she will not resign. She will wait for the vote -- Anderson. COOPER: So do you have a sense of the details of McCarthy's motivation
for all this? Because I mean, it was back in February that he helped Cheney survive a similar effort to oust her from G.O.P. leadership?
GANGEL: Correct. So what we do know is that Donald Trump wanted Liz Cheney out and a big part of this was about Kevin McCarthy getting back into the good graces of Donald Trump for fundraising support, for political support, because he wants to be Speaker and he felt he needed Donald Trump for that.
But there's a second point that Cheney and McCarthy have clashed over and that's the notion of a January 6th Commission. Cheney has repeatedly said it should focus just on January 6th. Kevin McCarthy, for some reason wants it to be broad and focus on Antifa and Black Lives Matter because he really wants to muddy the water.
Why does he want to muddy the water? Donald Trump wants to muddy the water and specifically for Kevin McCarthy, there's a problem. It is likely that if there is a Commission, he will be subpoenaed and called as a witness over that infamous phone call he had with Donald Trump on January 6th, and as we've seen time and again, he does not want to talk about that phone call.
[20:05:10]
COOPER: And in the meantime, I mean, between now and whenever this G.O.P. conference vote is likely to take place, McCarthy knew what he was doing by going on FOX this morning. Is this going to get uglier before it is resolved one way or another?
GANGEL: I think that is fair to say. One of the things though, that I think is going to happen that Kevin McCarthy may not have thought through is Liz Cheney is going to have a platform with or without being number three in leadership.
And my sense is that going forward, she will feel completely unleashed about speaking out, it is only just begun -- Anderson.
COOPER: Jamie Gangel, appreciate it. Thanks.
Moments ago, "The Wall Street Journal" published a new editorial on the possible vote against Congresswoman Cheney. The conservative editorial page writes, quote: "She may be ousted because she is daring to tell the truth to G.O.P. voters and at personal political risk."
They go on to say, quote: "Republicans will look foolish or worse to swing voters if they refight 2020 and 2022."
Perspective now from an attorney conservative who is famously opposed to the former President, George Conway.
Mr. Conway, thanks for being with us. I mean, that is what's going to happen in 2022. I mean, there isn't really a big platform for the Republican Party right now, other than whatever Donald Trump wants.
GEORGE CONWAY, CONSERVATIVE LAWYER: That's absolutely right. And getting rid of Liz Cheney isn't going to change that. You still have got Donald Trump and Donald Trump doesn't want to talk about policy, Donald Trump doesn't want to talk about what's best for the Republican Party, which is presenting issues and dealing with issues and dealing with policy issues, but he wants to talk about himself and his alleged, you know, the big lie about him supposedly losing the election.
That's what he wants to talk about. That's the reason -- you know, that's what's forced Liz Cheney into responding.
COOPER: You know, I talked to Tom Friedman about this last night, and there are probably some Democrats who are kind of just sitting on the sidelines thinking, oh, well, this is Republicans fighting among themselves, who cares.
But I mean, for democracy to work, we need two parties, at the very least with, you know, who battle over ideas and believe firmly in what they believe and argue about it and figure out a way to govern.
But if one of those parties is just backing -- has just thrown in the towel on reality, and it's just backing the lies of the former President and linking themselves, it is becoming a cult of personality. I mean, that has implications for democracy itself.
CONWAY: Absolutely, absolutely right. I mean, it has implications for two reasons. One is, as you say, there has to be some belief in democracy and some shared truth and the truth of the matter is, is that Joe Biden won the presidential election by a substantial margin, by seven million votes in the popular vote.
And the other problem is that you need two strong political parties. This doesn't strengthen the Republican Party. Yes, it may be true that the Members of the House are responding to the fact that 60 or 70 percent whatever the latest poll number is of Republicans believe Trump's lies, believe in the big lie, but that means that a lot of people don't and Republicans don't have votes to spare.
They lost this last election by seven million votes in the popular column and they haven't won the popular vote in a presidential election, other than the 2004. They've only won once since 1988. That's three decades.
And they're starting, you know, the problem is also the demographics don't favor the Republicans and their voters are getting older. They're losing people in the suburbs. They're losing, you know, educated suburban voters and moderate voters. And they don't -- they can't afford that as the last election showed.
And they're all -- and the Republicans are doing this to keep themselves from being primaried, but the fact of the matter is, they're destroying their own party because look at what Donald Trump did in four years? He lost the House in 2018. He lost the presidency in 2020 and in 2021, he lost those two Senate races in Georgia and that caused them to lose the Senate. He lost all -- both legislative branches and the presidency. COOPER: So what happens to the Republican Party? I mean, what happens
to people like yourself? To Liz Cheney? To others who are principled and have conservative principles that that they believe in?
CONWAY: Oh, I mean, it's basically we're headed toward essentially the destruction of the Republican Party as a serious party, at least as a potential majority party. I think, precisely because they just can't make the numbers add up. And you lose somebody like Liz Cheney, again, as Jamie points out, she is going to have more time on her hands to become a spokesperson for truth.
And it's just -- it's just an amazingly self-destructive thing that the Republicans are doing. They're being very, very shortsighted. They want to avoid primary challenges, but they're ultimately -- ultimately by sticking to the big lie, they are ultimately sowing the seeds of their own destruction.
[20:10:23]
COOPER: And is -- I mean, what is the -- I do not understand the fealty to somebody who has no fealty to them and the fealty to somebody who, you know, doesn't have any sense of loyalty, who has no platform and the Republican Party, they didn't have a platform this time around, because they just decided whatever Donald Trump says that should be the platform.
CONWAY: Ironically, that's what gives him power. He doesn't care what he does to the party. He doesn't care what he does to the country, and so he can't be deterred and they know that.
And they know there's only one way to try to turn the heat down, which is to try -- it is to kowtow to him.
But the problem is, it's not going to work. It is impossible to satisfy this man and he is going to want to keep talking about, you know, the fraudulent election, the big lie, until kingdom come and that's not good for the Republican Party and they have no way of turning it off now because the longer they allow these lies to be unrebutted, the less able they are to combat them, and it may well be too late.
COOPER: If Ron Reagan was running in a primary today, can he get elected?
CONWAY: No, not unless he swore fealty to Donald Trump and not unless he -- you know, signed on to the big lie or at least refuse to contradict it. It's sad and depressing.
COOPER: George Conway, I appreciate you being with us. Thank you.
More on all this in a moment. We're going to take you to Congressman Kevin McCarthy's home district in California. Gary Tuchman is in Bakersfield and is hearing from voters who sent McCarthy to Washington. Do they care he is supporting the foreign President's lies and do they even consider them lies? Later, the White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain joins us talk about
his fight and the state of the fight against COVID as fewer people are showing up for vaccinations, the prospects for herd immunity dissipate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:16:24]
COOPER: Breaking news tonight, in a hot mic moment on FOX News, House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy said he has had it with and lost confidence in Congresswoman Liz Cheney after her repeated comments about the former President.
Meanwhile, "The Wall Street Journal" editorial page now says her ouster will make Republicans look, quote: "foolish or worse" unquote, and that she is daring to tell the truth to Republican voters.
As our Jamie Gangel reported, Republican sources say McCarthy is orchestrating a vote that would remove Cheney from leadership, a major controversy for Republicans on Capitol Hill. The question is, what do voters think about McCarthy back in his California District? Here's our Gary Tuchman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Here in Bakersfield, California, the largest city in Kevin McCarthy's congressional district, David Bynum practices law. He interned for McCarthy when he was in the State Legislature and still very much likes him.
But Bynum dislikes Donald Trump and dismisses Trump stolen election talk.
DAVID BYNUM, FORMER MCCARTHY INTERN: I think if you look on a whole at what Kevin has done, he has tried to walk both sides of the line. It's an impossible line to walk. It's impossible to dance on both sides of the line without someone pointing and saying, uh-oh, you know, you're not --
TUCHMAN: But should you dance on both sides of the line when one side of the line is a complete lie? I mean, no matter what you do, you're an attorney. I'm a journalist. You can't lie.
BYNUM: Right.
TUCHMAN: I can't lie. I'll lose my job.
BYNUM: Well, I think if he doesn't cater to the voters, he loses his job.
TUCHMAN (on camera): Kevin McCarthy would like to be Speaker of the House, can't blame him. But amid the continued lying by Donald Trump about the election results, the question needs to be asked at what price? TUCHMAN (voice over): Is McCarthy in danger of losing his integrity
among his core supporters? Bertha and Delmar Boolean (ph) see no problem.
TUCHMAN (on camera): So Donald Trump has said the election was stolen. And your Congressman McCarthy has not said, no, Mr. Trump, it hasn't been stolen. He's kind of gone along with it. How do you feel about that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel it was stolen.
TUCHMAN: You do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
TUCHMAN: But there is no proof of that? Zero. All the judges have said it's not true. Including Republicans. Yea
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
TUCHMAN: But there isn't -- is there proof it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have real suspicions based on evidence that we've come to pass.
TUCHMAN: What is the evidence, if you don't mind me asking respectfully?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I mind you asking.
TUCHMAN: You do mind me asking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
TUCHMAN: I am being respectful.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, you are.
TUCHMAN: But you don't want to tell me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
TUCHMAN (voice over): Some people here are distrustful of the new media and don't want to answer questions about their congressman.
What are your feelings about Kevin McCarthy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not going to answer that for you guys. Reading you guys -- you guys post and how you twist everything. Come on.
TUCHMAN (voice over); But most did talk to us. It was pretty easy to find people who give McCarthy every benefit of the doubt.
Do you like Kevin McCarthy? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hell yes.
TUCHMAN: You're saying you like Congressman McCarthy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
TUCHMAN: But do you think you should tell for President Trump, Mr. Trump, the election wasn't stolen. You were making that up. That's a lie. He hasn't said that. Does that bother you that he hasn't said that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it bothered me. He should have said all those things.
TUCHMAN: But you still like him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, because -- yes, I still like him.
TUCHMAN (voice over): We did find some people on the district who feel differently.
What do you think of your Congressman Kevin McCarthy?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, you spoke to --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't think highly of him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no, we don't.
TUCHMAN (voice over): But the woman who runs the current County Republican Party who hired Kevin McCarthy as an intern more than three decades ago for his predecessor's congressional office thinks very highly of him and the way he has handled everything.
It was a legitimate election. We all know that. And I'm wondering if you think Leader McCarthy just needs to say something about that to reassure others who are concerned about what Donald Trump is saying and said.
CATHY ABERNATHY, KERN COUNTY REPUBLICAN PARTY: I think other than the media I don't think the people are concerned about that. What they want to hear from Kevin McCarthy is what he's been saying why isn't the President stopping what's going on at that border? Why are we bringing --
[20:20:15]
TUCHMAN: You don't think that people are concerned about what Trump says?
ABERNATHY: Not about the election. I don't think people are caught up in that at all.
TUCHMAN (voice over): That would not be accurate, but it would be the sentiment of many in this district.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And Gary joins us now. McCarthy supporters you spoke to, did they believe the 2020 presidential election was stolen? It seems like it.
TUCHMAN: Yes, it seemed pretty split, Anderson among the people we talked to, 50 percent of them roughly who feel it wasn't stolen and many of them who didn't even like Donald Trump that much, there was the feeling that McCarthy cannot afford to alienate people who do feel the election was stolen.
Here is something interesting, the lawyer I interviewed in that story, who is a Republican. He said in the 2020 election, he doesn't like Donald Trump very much. He made the decision to vote for Joe Biden. And in 2016, he didn't like Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton, and he made the decision to write in the candidate and that candidate for President he wrote in was Kevin McCarthy -- Anderson.
COOPER: Gary, appreciate it. Thanks. More now on the fight inside the Republican Party, and what we just heard. Let's bring in our chief political correspondent, Dana Bash.
So if the reporting is accurate, it is only a matter of time before Congresswoman Cheney is ousted as G.O.P. Conference Chair, who do you think is the most likely replacement?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the person who is working the hardest, according to sources I'm talking to and clearly our Capitol Hill team as well, is Elise Stefanik, the Republican Congresswoman from New York who actually worked in the Bush White House, who you know, if you go back then would be more of a Liz Cheney Republican, but during the Trump era has become very much a Trump Republican and she is working hard.
I've spoken to Republican Members of Congress who have spoken to her and say that she is whipping it and she is trying very hard to get as much support as she can to replace Liz Cheney as House Conference Chair in what appears to be an inevitable vote to put that to the Republican conference.
COOPER: I want to play a clip of Congresswoman Stefanik during the hearings for the first impeachment hearings. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DEVIN NUNES (R-CA): I yield to you, Miss Stefanik.
REP. ELISE STEFANIK (R-NY): Thank you, Mr. Nunes. Ambassador Yovanovitch, thank you for being here today.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): The gentlewoman will suspend. The gentlewoman will suspend.
STEFANIK: What is the interruption for this time? It is our time
SCHIFF: The gentlewoman will suspend. You're not recognized. Mr. Nunes, you are --
NUNES: I just -- I just recognized --
SCHIFF: Under the House Res 660, you're not allowed to yield time except to minority counsel.
STEFANIK: The Ranking Member yielded time to another Member of Congress.
SCHIFF: No, that is not accurate.
NUNES: You're gagging the young lady from New York.
STEFANIK: That is accurate. Ambassador Yovanovitch, I want to thank you for being here today.
SCHIFF: The gentlewoman will suspend. You're not recognized.
STEFANIK: This is the fifth time you have interrupted Members of Congress.
SCHIFF: The gentlewoman is not recognized. The gentlewoman will suspend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It's so interesting that she worked in the Bush White House and you know, now is fully on board, you know, we obviously heard from former President George W. Bush.
BASH: A lot of people who I know when I talked to who worked with her, at least know of her from the Bush White House are quite surprised. But I was just texting with a longtime Republican aide who pointed out something really important and really telling and that is telling of her district, the 21st District in New York, which is upstate New York, which also is representative of what we're seeing across the party, Anderson, and that is this district was a real moderate district.
The presidential went for years for the Democrat. It is New York.
The past two elections, 2016 and 2020, Donald Trump. She is following her district and the Republicans and it looks like even some Democrats and independents very much support the former President. That's why you saw the shift that she had and that is why you're seeing a lot of these Republicans shift.
It is the base, it is their constituents, which is why they're not fighting the big lie. They're not fighting for truth. They are not fighting back against their constituents who many of whom you heard from Gary, who are parroting the lies that they are hearing from the former President and from many in conservative media.
COOPER: Yes, Dana Bash. Appreciate it. Thank you.
There's a great deal to talk about with our next guest with politics, President Biden's new vaccine goal announced today coming up, a 360 interview with White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain.
Later, well, the defense attorneys for former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin moved for two weeks after a guilty verdict was rendered in the death of George Floyd.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:28:23]
COOPER: President Biden today set a new vaccine goal announcing that he wants 70 percent of the adult population being given at least one dose by the Fourth of July and at least 160 million Americans fully vaccinated by then.
The President's new goal will require nearly a hundred million additional shots in arms over the next 60 days.
Meanwhile, the F.D.A. seems poised to authorize emergency use of the Pfizer vaccine in children ages 12 to 15 as soon as early next week, but as we've discussed there's also the Republican Party's infighting. We want to bring in White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain.
Mr. Klain, thanks for being with us. As you know, vaccine demand in America has slowed down. According to the C.D.C., 24 percent fewer adults received their first dose in the past seven days than in the week prior. What is the plan if the country doesn't reach the President's new goal of at least one shot to 70 percent of the U.S. by July 4th? Is there a Plan B?
RON KLAIN, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Well, no, Anderson, I think it's an achievable goal. It's a stretch goal, but it's an achievable goal.
We still are vaccinating millions of people a day. Obviously, it's slowed down. We had a pace for the first hundred days where we were trying to get 220 million shots into arms, we vaccinated 57 percent of the adults in this country. We're on the back half of this project and so it's going to go a little more slowly.
It's more about finding people who haven't found the vaccine yet convenient enough, easy enough to find. That's what the President laid out today, a plan to make it easier for Americans to get vaccinated, a website, a way to text and get your vaccine, no appointment vaccinations, more rural sites, more sites closer to people's homes.
We are trying to bring the vaccine to people as we go from 57 percent up to 70 percent.
COOPER: But he also -- I mean, you have many other states offering -- you know, West Virginia is giving out savings bonds, New Jersey is giving out free beer to get shots.
If you've got to give free beer to get vaccinated, I mean what does that say?
[20:30:07] KLAIN: Well, look, I think it says that we had first of all, like 55%
of the country that was really eager wanted to get this shot, they they've been done, they're in the process now, a lot of them are still getting their second shots. But there's another segment of the population that just wasn't clear if this was right for them.
Also, people who leave lives where they really couldn't make conveniently an appointment in advance to get a vaccine, they really wanted no appointment, show up and get a shot circumstances. We know that people in their 20s 30s 40s just find the vaccine less compelling. So part of the point the President made today was that the younger Americans.
You know, you need this vaccine, yes, you're less likely to get gravely ill. But people in their 20s, 30s, and 40s do get ill, they can also pass the virus on to others. We want to try to get that vaccination rate among younger Americans up to a higher number.
COOPER: In some countries, they have made things more, I don't know, punitive is the right word. But companies have essentially said, well, look, if you are going to come back to work, you have to get vaccinated, is that a road you wouldn't be looking to go down whether, you know, people can fly only if they've been vaccinated or go overseas only they've been vaccinated?
KLAIN: You know, Anderson, I think this is a country that really relies on free choice. And I think that this is -- I think our goal here is to persuade people to make it easy to make it convenient. We know the vast majority of those who have not yet been vaccinated have just found this process so far, too complicated, too difficult. Now, you can text your zip code to 438-829 and get a text back that tells you where you can get vaccinated near your home.
COOPER: I guess --
KLAIN: So, I mean just think a lot --
COOPER: -- yes.
KLAIN: -- of this is about just trying to make it easier to people, for them to get vaccinated.
COOPER: Why has it been so hard? I mean, I went on the websites trying to find out a place to get vaccinated. It's ridiculous. I mean, I can't believe, you know, in our country, we don't have a system in place that is just easy.
KLAIN: Well we do now. So I think up to now really, we're trying to ramp this up. Again, we set a global record for the number of shots we gave in the first 100 days, we had a lot of success with the people who really went and found the vaccine. Now, it shifted the other direction as you said.
We have enough vaccine. We have people who found it too hard. And now it's super simple, you can go to vaccines.gov and enter your zip code, find a location, make an appointment, if you don't want to get an appointment, just text to 438-829 with your zip code, you'll find a place, you can walk in and most of those places and get a shot. So, we're making it easier.
COOPER: Is herd immunity still the goal the administration? Because as you know, you know, Dr. Fauci among others have sort of backed away from using that term as a benchmark.
KLAIN: Yes, I think that I'll let Dr. Fauci comment, obviously on the science of that. What he's advised us is that it's a probably a phrase that doesn't really apply here to this particular virus in this circumstance.
Our goal, as you noted, Anderson is to get to 70 percent of the country with one shot, 160 million Americans fully vaccinated by July 4th, if we get there with the experts like Dr. Fauci, Dr. Walensky others tell us is that number of cases should be down dramatically, the number of deaths should be down further, they'll just be a lot less COVID. And a lot fewer people getting sick from COVID in the country.
COCOPER: The CDC changes, you know, obviously, it's mask guidance last week, saying it's now safe to go maskless outside if you can also distance yourself. Since then, we've seen President Biden on several occasions wearing his mask outside.
Some people have criticized him for not adopting to the new guidance. There's certainly other people I know who are going to continue to wear masks, because they feel more comfortable that way. And they feel it sends the right message. What do you say to those who say the President isn't practicing what the CDC is preaching?
KLAIN: Well, I say that he is. I mean, I think most of the time you see him outside, he's not wearing a mask. People catch him sometime pictures, getting in or out of a car, he hasn't yet had a chance to take his mask off or is going into a building. So he, you know, puts it on for convenience. The President wears -- doesn't wear his mask when he's outside generally. I'm here tonight, unmasked outside.
So, I think we're all adjusting to this new CDC guidance. It's great guidance, right? I mean, everyone should feel better, that we have made so much progress in 100 days, that deaths are down 80%, cases are down dramatically in 40 of the 50 states. We're making a lot of progress. Being able to be unmasked outside is the result of that progress and something we should all enjoy.
COOPER: The -- I want to turn to the fist bump scene around the country, the moment when the President exchanged a very brief fist bump with Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney last Wednesday. It added fuel to political fire that was already engulfing obviously her tenure as GOP conference chair. She responded to critics saying in part, we're different political parties were not sworn enemies we're Americans.
Is that now he radical stance for Republican and take? I mean, from your perspective of the White House, how do you deal with a party where they're pushing out somebody who Seems to be pushing -- being pushed out because she's not willing to go along with the big lie about the election.
[20:35:05]
KLAIN: Well, you know, I think that -- I think I'm the last person in the world that House Republicans want leadership advice from. But what I'll say is the President here at the White House, we're working with Republicans. In that same speech, the President credited Mitch McConnell for his work on helping him fight cancer.
We're invited the joint leadership down to the White House next week, we're looking forward to having Minority Leader McCarthy and Leader McConnell down here at the White House next week. We've had over 100 members of Congress that roughly half of them, Republicans here to the White House in the 100 and so days, we've been here.
So, we're going to work with people in both parties who want to work with President Biden, on addressing the country's problems. Fighting COVID, getting the economy back on track, and now passing an infrastructure bill.
COOPER: We know we had Tom Friedman on the program last night, and, you know, he's talking about this being an actual threat to democracy that we need, as, you know, 70 percent of Republicans say they don't think President Biden legitimately won in a recent CNN poll from April.
You know, our democracy needs two parties, at the very least, who, you know, argue things out and then figure out how to move forward. But, if one party is fully just embracing a lie, and kind of an alternate reality, isn't that a danger for democracy?
KLAIN: Well, I think look, I think rejections of election results are a danger for democracy. What I would say Anderson is that we had a lot of Republicans around the country except the election result. We had Republican local election officials, be the people in many states who certified election results.
We had Republican and Democratic appointed judges who rejected Trump's baseless attacks on the elections through the courts. And ultimately, we had both Republicans and Democrats who voted to certify the election, in the House, in the Senate.
So, we're trying to bring people together. We're trying to, you know, get progress on the problems the American people, but I absolutely agree that people need to accept the fact that there was an election in America, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won that election. That's what state local officials said. That's what judges said. That's what the Congress said.
COOPER: Ron Klain, appreciate your time. Thank you.
KLAIN: Thanks for having me Anderson.
COOPER (voice-over): We got breaking news now why the attorney for the ex-police officer convicted murdering George Floyd is asking for a new trial for his client. We'll talk about with our legal team when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:41:07]
COOPER: The Attorney for the Minneapolis police officer convicted of murdering George Floyd has filed a motion asking you for a new trial. In the filing, Derek Chauvin's defense attorney lists several reasons for the request, including claims publicity during the trial threatened its fairness and allegations that the court abused its discretion by refusing to move the trial out of Minneapolis or sequestering the jury.
The defense attorney also said the jury committed misconduct felt quote, race based pressure during the proceedings and or failed to adhere to instructions during deliberations. No specific juror incident was mentioned.
Want to get perspective now from our legal analyst, and former federal prosecutor Laura Coates and criminal defense attorney Mark O'Mara.
Laura, how common is filing a motion like this?
LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Extremely common. Every time somebody has lost the case and is has a conviction, you would expect there to be a period of time when appeal is actually going to be in the future. And remember, this defense attorney went to great lengths during the duration of the trial, even beforehand, try to preserve these issues, issues about the sequestration issues about the influence of the media. Remember, late in the trial, there was even a discussion about the words of a Congresswoman.
So, we were expecting all of this, but we have not seen fully yet is a full brief to explain each and every aspect of the allegations in terms of the race-based pressure and whatnot. But it's very common to actually had this appeal and what you'd expect. In fact, there's a schedule for when you can actually appeal, anticipating this very thing.
COOPER: And Mark, this motion comes after the newly surface photo of a juror wearing a Black Lives Matter t-shirt back in Washington last August. Do you see that possibly coming into play? And could a judge consider that?
MARK O'MARA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, yes, it is and we'll consider it and should consider it. But the real question is a couple of different sort of variables. One, a judge normally would look at a case like that and say, OK, that may not have been all that problematic if you didn't look into it and ask that your question where they actually affirmatively lied or defaulted to court.
So, here's going to be the analysis. There was a question on the questionnaire that said, I think it was question number seven, did you ever attend a protest or rally about this case in Minneapolis? And the jury said no, as it turns out, the answer to that particular question was absolutely accurate, because he hadn't, then we find out he was in D.C., fine.
But it's really on the defense attorneys shoulders, to look into that and to do everything that he or she needs to do to try and get a fair trial. And quite honestly, if they relied in appropriately on a inappropriate question and answer or a nonspecific question, and it's not a specific answer, and didn't look into any further, quite honestly, that's going to be on the defense attorneys shoulders and a judge is going to say, you had an opportunity to question you.
I didn't limit your questioning, you should have gone into this. Don't come to me now and say, it's my problem as the judge when you didn't take the time to look into it.
COOPER: That's interesting, Laura, I mean, first of all, who comes up with those questions? And just to be clear, as Mark was saying, the defense has an opportunity to talk to that juror and ask that juror any questions they want before deciding whether or not they can be on the jury.
COATES: As the prosecution and the judge can answer questions. Well, normally at the collaborative process, and this was a more than, I think, 14 pages or so of voir dire, that's a very lengthy voir dire. And the goal of that voir dire did not appear to find jurors who had heard nothing about this particular case knew nothing.
It wasn't as if they were trying to find the equivalent of a Rip Van Winkle who'd fallen asleep under a tree only to come to find out that there had been unrest in the country. They were trying to find people who could be impartial, not ignorant of all the facts in the case, it could follow instructions.
And so, Mark is right where he talks about the idea of the opportunity of the defense counsel and the prosecution and the judge to be able to figure out whether this person could be impartial and whether there is something about their actual questions.
And remember answers those questions if they wrote a very specific question to which someone provided a specific answer, and they were not more inclusive of other cities et cetera, well, then it's hard to really find an error.
[20:45:11]
And I would mention, of course, one of the things we're talking about is attendance, I believe, at the anniversary of march of the I Have a Dream speech in Washington, D.C. So the notion that that particular speech and the anniversary of it in the march in Washington can be reduced to one specific aspect of it would already be farcical to a judge looking at this.
But ultimately, it's about the cumulative answer, it's about the holistic approach that voir dire that will be questioned, and they may ask this particular juror to come back and answer some questions about whether they have been misleading, but it will be a very fact specific inquiry.
COOPER: Mark --
COATES: That they do.
COOPER: Mark, how likely is Chauvin to get a new trial? I mean, and if you can't explain how that differs from a conventional appeal of the verdict?
O'MARA: Yes, so a new trial is only going to be granted if there was such a fundamental unfairness or fundamental problem during the trial that it has to only be remedied by a new trial. And quick example to this, if this juror has lied to his teeth, and had stated something like, I am going to go in there and convict Chauvin no matter what the facts, that might be enough, but we're not going to be anywhere near that.
So what the judge looks at is all of those little pieces of the motion. You know, you should have changed venue, for example. Well, not really going to happen, because nowhere in Minnesota, would you have a jury much different than the one you got there. Or you should have sequester them. Maybe, but probably not, because you're not going to have a jury who is 30, 45 days kept in hotels because of that inconvenience.
The judge did what he needed to do to protect his jury from most of what's going to happen on the outside. These other things about the prosecutor who may have gone a little bit overboard in attacking the defense case, it was objected to which again, is strictly on the defense attorney shoulders. And then the judge reminded the prosecutor not to do that.
So, most of what is being complained about was addressed it by the judge and properly addressed. And again, the judge is going to look at this and say, wait a minute, I'm going to look at this with somewhat of a harmless error perspective. There's so much evidence in this case supporting guilt, that I'm not going to let this small decision get in the way of a juries well thought out and reasoned verdict. And that's going to be a standard of judges going to apply.
COOPER: Mark O'Mara, Laura Coates, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
(voice-over): Up next, the former president's been kicked off social media for months but couldn't get access to Facebook and Instagram again. Details on a critical decision expected tomorrow when we continue.
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[20:51:26]
COOPER: The former president has rolled out a new tool to communicate with supporters. His new platform features videos from the former president statements from his leadership pack. This comes as he awaits the decision expected tomorrow, whether he'll be allowed back on Facebook and Instagram. Facebook's oversight board, which claims is independent is set to make an announcement tomorrow morning on whether or not to reinstate the account, possibly giving him access again to his more than 30 million followers.
Breaking point that social media platform came on January 6, after the capital Riot when the former president posted this message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: This was a fraudulent election. But we can't play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So go home. We love you. You're very special. You've seen what happens. You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel, but go home and go home with peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Playing rioters to go home but as you said he heard he said, we love you. You're very special. The next day, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg announced the suspension saying quote we believe the risks of allowing the president to continue to use our service during this period are simply too great.
Joining us more for tomorrow's expected announcement is CNN chief media correspondent Brian Stelter, is the author of Hoax Donald Trump, Fox News, The Dangerous Distortion of Truth.
So, who's on the Oversight Board? And is there any sense of where they might be leaning?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: It's a group of journalists, activists, people that care a lot about digital rights and free speech and the First Amendment. In many cases, these are free speech absolutist, or folks who believe deeply in the cause of free expression on the internet, even when it does harm. That's why the consensus view of tech experts is that Trump may likely get back on Facebook. That his account may be reinstated by this time tomorrow.
The ruling will come down tomorrow morning. It's the biggest test of this board yet. And ultimately, it's because there's this concern that the former president is a threat to the public. He certainly was a threatened January. The question in front of this board is, is he still a threat today.
COOPER: And if he continues to lie about the election, which obviously he --
STELTER: Is doing.
COOPER: -- continues to, you know, parties at Mar-a-Lago and just about to anybody who listen, like a guy at a bar, what happens?
STELTER: Well, what would happen is the same thing that happened any other prominent Facebook account, he will be eligible for fact checking, which means Facebook's fact checking partners could stamp labels on top of his content. But right now, there's no indication that Facebook will take extraordinary measures on his account. If his account is restored, it'll be just like any other politicians account. However, Anderson, this oversight board, which is given, you know, support by Facebook but is independent. It can also make recommendations about policy. Facebook can then take those recommendations and make changes or not.
So we will see tomorrow if this board has ideas for Facebook for how to change the platform, and if the company does anything. But at the end of the day, this is still Mark Zuckerberg's call. He's the one that wants to have an oversight board. And it's still ultimately his website and his call.
COOPER: I mentioned the former president apparently has a new page to his official website that allows him to share statements and video messages with supporters which they can then post to social media. Jason Miller his (INAUDIBLE) told Fox News that former president was building his own social media platform, is this it?
STELTER: This does not seem to be in it. Looks like a very cheap kind of a web blog or a blog from many years ago, where he can post the statements that he releases sometimes full of errors, misspellings and lies. Now, they're putting them up on the Trump Web site.
It's a slight step in the right direction. But frankly, Anderson, you or I could have built this web page in just a couple of hours. I'm not sure why it had so much hype today.
Jason Miller is indicating there still will be some sort of social platform for Trump fans to organize in the future. But honestly, it's been six months since the election. They've had quite a lot of time to build something new and so far they have very little to show for it. Maybe they're hoping to get back on Facebook tomorrow.
[20:55:12]
COOPER: I'm kind of a luddite. I don't think I can build any kind of website --
STELTER: Oh, you call me.
COOPER: All right. Brian Stelter, thanks so much.
(voice-over): Up next, the latest in the battle against COVID in India as the country reaches a milestone that certainly everyone had hoped to avoid.
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COOPER: The COVID crisis crossed a grim threshold in India today, the case count there just surpassed 20 million in the country's reporting the world's highest number of new cases every day and an unthinkable number of deaths. Today, 3,449 people died in India. Hospitals are overwhelmed, running out of some of the most basic life-saving supplies including much needed oxygen.
On our web show "Full Circle" today we spoke with a New York City based chef part of the widespread Indian diaspora here in the U.S. has been raising funds all along to help feed people in India during the pandemic. He's now turning his attention to the immediate crisis by shipping 500 oxygen concentrators to India.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VIKAS KHANNA, FEED INDIA: Everything has shifted. You know, we used to read about these big flus and all these fevers. But now we witness this as a such an advanced society. And this has made us more cautious, more thoughtful in some ways at the same time extremely, extremely transform that, you know, if you do not hand hold hands together, then mankind is going to suffer a lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:00:00]
COOPER: That's Vikas Khanna I'm speaking on "Full Circle" which is our streaming broadcast. It's live Monday, Tuesday and Friday at 6:00 p.m. Eastern or anytime on cnn.com/fullcircle.
That's it for us. The news continues. Let's hand over Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME." Chris.
