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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
National Archives Asks Justice Department to Investigate Trump's Handling of White House Documents; Figures Skating Ceremony Delayed after Russian Athlete Tests Positive for Prohibited Substance; Interview with Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA); NY, MA, RI, IL, To End Mask Mandates As CDC Stands Firm & Confusion Grows; Despite Small Numbers, Protesters Are Receiving Support From Conservatives, Other Right-Wing Figures In Unidentified Speaker; Police Shooting Of Amir Locke Lead To Protests, Question About Use Of No-Knock Warrants. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 09, 2022 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He had a ton of friends while doing it, and so when we followed him to a Trump rally, you could tell on his face that he knew that by questioning these beliefs even just a little bit, that he wasn't really part of the group anymore, and he was sad about it.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Yes, I mean that was sort of an amazing moment. I mean, how did that feel watching that happen?
REEVE: I mean, I kind of actually liked him having to feel what we feel in those rallies, to be on the other side, and to see what it's like.
BURNETT: Well, fantastic, and thank you so very much for sharing it with us, Elle, thank you.
It's time now for AC 360.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: There is no papering over the Breaking News tonight that the Federal agency in charge of presidential records has asked the Justice Department to investigate the former President's habit of ripping up official documents and/or squirreling them away to Mar-a-Lago.
John Berman here, in for Anderson. We'll have more on that shortly.
Also, the House January 6 Select Committee subpoenas another highly visible player in the scheme to overturn the election. Committee Member Adam Schiff joins us for that.
First, though new information on the making of the Republican Party's censure resolution against two members now serving on the Committee and the genesis of language in it describing what happened at the Capitol as, quote, "legitimate political discourse."
Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell's take, as you know, stands in contrast to that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): We all were here. We were here. We saw it happened. It was a violent insurrection for the purpose of trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after a legitimately certified election from one administration to the next. That's what it was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So, in the face of that, last night, Republican National Committee Chair Ronna McDaniel put out an op-ed, which quickly became fodder for talking points, including on this program.
Bottom line, it's our fault, the media, quoting her: "If corporate news media wants to know why Americans don't trust it anymore, they should look no further than the shameful outrageous and patently false coverage of the resolution adopted by the R.N.C. to censure Reps Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger."
She goes on to say that she has repeatedly stated that violence is not legitimate political discourse, and that media outlets who pretend the R.N.C. believes it are acting in bad faith. In other words, believe what she says about the Party's position, but not the actual words in the party's resolution, which we and others accurately reported.
If we got it wrong, well, so did Mitch McConnell, and now there's more to go on, information from a source involved in the process who tells us those three words, "legitimate political discourse," were not included in early drafts. Instead, Representatives Cheney and Kinzinger were condemned for taking part in a quote, "Democratic-led persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in non-violent and legal political discourse," which invites two interpretations.
One is pretty grim, namely that the R.N.C. views this and everything else that day as nonviolent and legal political discourse.
[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]
BERMAN: A more charitable interpretation is that in a ham-fisted way, the resolution's drafters were trying to draw a distinction between the mob you see here and those who did not invade the Capitol, but if that's the case, if this draft language truly was intended to make that point, however, indirectly, then why didn't it end up in the final version? Why was it replaced by the legitimate political discourse characterization?
Or now that we're talking, why wasn't there language in the resolution simply saying what Mitch McConnell said? I'm not going to keep you waiting. Here's why, of course.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The January 6 rally was a protest against a crooked election carried out by unhinged Democrats, Big Tech, and working with the fake news media all working together to defeat Republicans and your favorite President, me.
The real insurrection took place on Election Day, November 3rd.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: They just can't quit him. So for all that Ronna McDaniel scolds us for failing to hear her repeated condemnations of the violence of the Capitol, and for every Republican lawmaker who stands up and says what Mitch McConnell said about it, their voices only matters so much because one voice matters more.
Meantime, as we mentioned at the top, a source familiar with the matter tells CNN, the National Archives has asked the Justice Department to investigate his handling of White House records.
The former President, as you know, habitually tore up official documents after reading them. According to "The Washington Post," Archive officials suspected he might have broken laws on handling government documents, including potentially classified material and reached out to D.O.J.
Joining us now, CNN special correspondent, Jamie Gangel, CNN political analyst and "The New York Times" Washington correspondent Maggie Haberman, and CNN chief legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.
Jeff, I want to start with you on the purely legal matter here.
BERMAN: "The Post" says that Donald Trump was warned about tearing up documents by two Chiefs of Staff, and maybe also the White House Counsel. So could he be in legal jeopardy here?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think the only way he could be in legal jeopardy is if someone could prove, if the Justice Department can prove he was tearing up documents in order to avoid disclosure to a specific investigation. If he just did this as a matter of course, or if he did it just in violation of the Presidential Records Act, that is not a criminal violation.
In order to be a criminal violation, you have to look at his intent, and only if his intent was to make sure those documents didn't get into the hands of investigators, whether it was Robert Mueller earlier, or the congressional investigators later, that's the only way this could be a criminal problem.
BERMAN: Even if he was warned specifically by Chiefs of Staff and White House Counsel?
TOOBIN: Yes, I don't think there is any way that could be seen as a criminal matter unless he was specifically trying to avoid or interfere with or frustrate an actual investigation.
BERMAN: All right, Maggie, I am just seeing that "The New York Times" has a new reporting on the documents found at Mar-a-Lago. What can you tell us? MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: So John, my colleagues, Mike
Schmidt and Reid Epstein are reporting tonight that there's possible classified material that archivists found when they got these many boxes back from Mar-a-Lago, they have yet to figure out exactly what it is.
But you know, this would obviously raise significantly the questions about the material that Trump took, what the purpose of taking it was, what other possible classified material, if any, there might be.
Again, we don't know specifically, what we are -- what they think might be classified, but it does heighten the questions around it. That's very different than simply the original copy of a letter from Kim Jong-un or the copy of the original of the letter from former President Obama, this would be something very different.
BERMAN: Okay, Jeffrey Toobin, does that raise the legal stakes here?
TOOBIN: I don't really think it does because the Presidents have the power to declassify anything they want at any time. But again, this is really bad procedure. It's not the way the government is supposed to work, and by the way, Hillary Clinton may have lost the 2016 election because Donald Trump criticized the way she handled classified material on her e-mails.
But as a criminal matter, I find it very hard to believe this is something the Justice Department would prosecute.
BERMAN: Irony, not always against the law, I suppose you could say.
Jamie Gangel, in terms of the January 6 Committee, how much does the destruction of these documents or the tearing up and re-taping of them -- how much is it getting in the way of their investigation or factoring into what's going on there?
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: So to Jeffrey's point, this is not a surprise to the January 6 Committee because after all, as Maggie has been reporting since day one, he has been ripping up papers, and did it for four years.
So, the Committee has known this was going to be a stumbling block. I think that's the reason it is so important that they have all of these interviews with witnesses, with people who worked at the White House, firsthand. Some of those people are handing over documents, texts, phone logs, but I think just to go back to Jeffrey's point for a moment, I spoke to someone last night about exactly this issue and the question this person said, this was a source with knowledge of the investigation -- was he trying to circumvent something when it comes to January 6?
I think that is a very specific question we should look at. I also think the National Archives are really angry that he just did this over and over again.
BERMAN: Maggie, I want to turn to the January 6 Committee and the subpoena for former President Trump's trade adviser, Peter Navarro, who also personally, he documented his efforts to overturn the 2020 election in his book.
Place Peter Navarro in the Trump orbit, how important was he?
HABERMAN: Sure. Let me just really quickly say I appreciate, Jamie, the credit on the paper-ripping story, but that was my colleague, Annie Karni, and it was one of the best stories of the presidency, and I was very jealous of it when she was a competitor and broke it.
Peter Navarro was sort of a jack of all trades around the former President, John. He was somebody who, yes, he was the trade adviser, but he clearly liked running all kinds of other errands for Trump. He inserted himself in trying to figure out who the Author Anonymous was and devoted an enormous amount of energy to it. He would weigh in on all kinds of other issues.
HABERMAN: He viewed himself and portrayed himself as one of the defenders of the President's political movement, and so he was somebody who went out. It's not clear to me whether Trump actually asked him to do this or whether he volunteered to do it, but he went out and he did all kinds of quote-unquote, "work" around the election after November 3rd and before January 6th and he issued this report, and I think he held a press conference, where he talked about its findings.
Now, he has -- and he talked about this all in a book. It's not surprising to me that he is not cooperating with the January 6 Committee. The former President has drawn a pretty clear line that he doesn't want people doing it, but Navarro is one of Trump's favorites.
BERMAN: You know, Jamie, Peter Navarro out now says that he wanted Congress to stop the certification process on January 6. He writes it, he says in interviews whenever he can. What does the Committee want to get from him?
GANGEL: I don't think they expect they're going to get anything from him, to Maggie's point. I mean, what he told CNN was, the Committee must negotiate his potential appearance.
That is not exactly, guys, what day, what time do you want me to show up, but in talking to the Committee about people like Peter Navarro, Steve Bannon, Rudy Giuliani, Dan Scavino. They don't expect them to come. But for the record they're putting out there that they should come.
BERMAN: And Jeffrey -- go ahead.
TOOBIN If I can just make a point about this. I mean, the idea that Peter Navarro and Mark Meadows can write books about their interactions with Donald Trump, which they disclose freely and for profit, and then say: Oh, by the way, in response to a subpoena, I'm not going to answer those questions.
I mean, it is just outrageous, but it is also a matter of the clock ticking. I mean, there is just not time to have a legal fight with these people. Steve Bannon, remember, he is actually under indictment, but that case is on a slow boat to nowhere.
The Committee just doesn't have the time or the resources to force recalcitrant witnesses to testify at this point.
BERMAN: Jeffrey Toobin, Maggie Haberman, Jamie Gangel, thank you all very much.
So we have more Breaking News tonight. It comes from the Winter Olympics in Beijing, where the medal ceremony for the figure skating team event is on hold and a gold for Russia is in jeopardy. CNN sports analyst, Christine Brennan, one of the premier figure skating reporters on Earth, broke this story and joins us now. Christine, what on earth is going on with these doping allegations?
CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Yes, John, I mean, the Russians are living up to their reputation or living down to it, the lifetime achievement award that is Russian doping, and here we are, again.
As I'm reporting, there was a positive drug test among -- one positive drug test among the six members of the Russian Olympic figure skating team that won the gold medal a couple of days ago in that team competition, dominated the competition.
So now, everything has been thrown into disarray and chaos. The question, of course, is, if in fact, the Russians would be disqualified for this positive drug test by one member of their team, the U.S. was second, Japan was third, Canada was fourth, logical thought would be the Russians would be disqualified, the U.S. would move up to gold medal position, which would be by itself a big story.
Then, as you know, John, you've covered the Olympic Games, we've worked together on the Games, the next step is the rest of the competition, the men's, the women's, the pairs, the dance, so all of those skaters on the Russian team will continue to compete in their own individual events, casting doubt about literally everything moving forward in the last week and a half of these Games.
BERMAN: Even the one athlete who tested positive.
BRENNAN: Well, I mean, the question would be, would that athlete named in some places, we are not going to name the name right now. Would that athlete be able to compete or not? One would expect that that athlete would be tossed out of the Olympics, but stranger things have happened. We're dealing with Russia, which has had nine lives in terms of coming back to the Olympics. They shouldn't even be here because of their previous doping violations, but they keep getting a chance to come back.
You know, their hands get slapped, and then they show up again, when they should not be here at all because of state sponsored doping, very different from like a Lance Armstrong that was not state sponsored.
So there is the question just moving forward, Russian. You've got the International Olympic Committee, you've got the International Skating Union. People want to see all of these skaters, these Russian skaters compete, they need the TV ratings, throw it all into the mix, and it is a big mess.
BERMAN: Right, and potential to get even bigger, because again, we're not naming who it is. We don't know who it is. But there are huge name skaters on that Russian team and it could have a major impact on the Games going forward.
This substance that we're talking about here, trimetazidine, if I'm saying that correctly. What does it even do?
BRENNAN: It fights fatigue. It is something that is used as a stimulant, it can actually help. I'm talking to a source about these issues just a few minutes ago, John, it can help with red blood cell -- getting a chance to have more red blood cells, which makes you feel better, which makes if you're tired, you can compete better.
It was used -- a version of one of these drugs was used by the Soviet soldiers in Afghanistan to stay awake and to just be on top of trying to feel better and on top of their game, so to speak.
Maria Sharapova, the great tennis star did test positive for a similar drug and was banned from tennis for a while. And again, it's the notion of the drug is supposed to treat heart problems and angina. We're talking about young skaters at the top of their game and physically so fit. Why in the world would they be taking what this one person allegedly taking a drug that treats angina?
BERMAN: You're going to hear a lot of excuses: Oh, it doesn't make you bigger, faster, stronger, but a lot of performance enhancing drugs are about training, making it possible for you to train longer and harder over longer stretches.
Christine Brennan, thank you very much for being with us tonight. I expect we're going to hear more from you in the coming hours.
BRENNAN: Thank you, John. Take care.
BERMAN: Now, the January 6 Committee Member Adam Schiff joins us to talk about the document tearing news, new reporting on Rudy Giuliani's interest in getting a hold of voting machines in the effort to overturn the election and also new subpoenas.
And later could scenes like these in Canada be coming to the United States just in time for the Super Bowl? We will tell you about a new warning out just moments ago from Federal authorities. That, plus a look at who the protesters are and who in this country is providing some of their backing.
BERMAN: Whether it's the possibility that Justice Department will investigate the former President again for destroying or sequestering official documents, "The New York Times" reporting on potentially classified documents being involved.
Another former close Trump adviser subpoenaed by the January 6 Committee and more, there's plenty to talk about with my next guest. He is California Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff, Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and member of the January 6 Select Committee and author of "Midnight in Washington: How We Almost Lost our Democracy, and Still Could."
Congressman, I want your take on the fact that the National Archives is asking the Justice Department to investigate the former president's handling of these White House Records.
Do you think there's any possible criminal exposure, particularly if there are any classified documents he took to Mar-a-Lago as "The New York Times" is reporting tonight?
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Well, first of all, I think they're absolutely right to make the referral to Justice Department, because there is public reporting and the Archives may know more than this that the President was repeatedly warned that that he couldn't destroy these documents, that he would be violating the law if he did so, and so it looks very willful.
And if there's evidence of potential willfulness in the destruction of documents, that is the kind of case that if any case is going to be prosecuted might be prosecuted.
Now, there is not much precedent for enforcement, vigorous enforcement of this provision. So I wouldn't want to leap to the conclusion that that's going to happen. But if it were to happen, it's a case like this where it appears to be a willful decision, and the classified allegation is much more serious, in my view, that is that Donald Trump brought to Mar-a-Lago, an unsecure location in boxes that others may have access to classified information, if that allegation proves correct, the Justice Department in my view will have to investigate.
It would be, I think, intolerable for the department to have investigated Hillary Clinton over handling of classified e-mails and ignore allegations that Donald Trump may have brought the classified documents and violated classification by bringing them to Mar-a-Lago.
So besides that jaw-dropping, heart-stopping, grab you by the throat hypocrisy of it, I think the Justice Department would have to look at those allegations very seriously and investigate them if in fact, there are reasons to believe that there are costly materials among those boxes.
BERMAN: Has the January 6 Committee -- have you received all relevant documents at this point, or is there anything missing?
SCHIFF: No, we haven't received all the relevant documents. Certainly, the archives is beefing up their staffing on this task, which we need them to do, because there is a real urgency here. The Courts all the way up to the Supreme Court ruled in our favor.
But while we've received several tranches of documents, there are more documents to be produced, and the same process has to be followed. That is, the archives notifies the current President, notifies the former President. If the former President objects, then there is a litigation process.
Now I think that process will be even more expedited than the first time and the first time it went up to the Court, the Supreme Court very quickly, but now we expect to get many, many more documents from the Archives.
BERMAN: I want to ask you about the Select Committee subpoena of former White House trade adviser, Peter Navarro. He put out a statement which reads part, "As the domestic terrorist running the January 6 partisan witch hunt are well aware, President Trump has invoked executive privilege and it is not my privilege to waive," end quote. So what's your response? Obviously, to that defiant and absurd statement there and how far is the committee willing to go to get him to talk?
SCHIFF: Well, you know, that kind of statement is really worthy, I guess, of the former President, which he is modeling himself after the kind of "Alice in Wonderland," know the people who viciously attacked police officers in the Capitol, they're not domestic terrorists, it's the people who are investigating them who are.
So, you know, it's certainly true to form of someone who, by his own admission, was creating a plan to overturn the election plan, which she claims the President, the former President supported. If he is really talking about in interviews, if he's willing to write about in his book, he should be willing to come in and talk to our Committee about it, and it's difficult, I think, for him to maintain as it was for Mark Meadows, the things he can freely talk about to the press and his book are somehow covered by a privilege preventing him from testifying to Congress about.
BERMAN: So there is reporting in "The Washington Post" tonight that Rudy Giuliani, the former President's attorney, asked a Michigan prosecutor to give voting machines to Trump's team in the weeks after the election. So, is that something your Committee is investigating or wants to investigate?
SCHIFF: We are certainly investigating the whole constellation of issues around efforts to obtain voting machines, either by the campaign or by the Trump administration.
To me, this is one of the most shocking revelations are these public reports at this point, I can only refer to the public reports that there were multiple efforts to persuade the President to either use the military or the Justice Department or the Department of Homeland Security or some other government agency to seize the voting machines of state and local jurisdictions.
That's the kind of thing you see in the third world. You don't expect to see that in what we would hope would be the most -- the best democracy in the world, but it is real tin pot dictator kind of stuff, and if these allegations involving Rudy Giuliani prove to be correct, that you have someone who was a very top adviser to the President who was integrally involved in this is another line of responsibility going very high in the Trump hierarchy in one of these very important lines of effort to overturn the election.
BERMAN: Congressman Adam Schiff, I appreciate you being with us tonight. Thank you.
SCHIFF: Thank you.
BERMAN: So more blue states announced plans to drop mask mandates in schools or businesses, but the CDC is saying it may be too soon. We're going to talk it over with Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Leana Wen, next.
And we've also got breaking details on the death of comic, Bob Saget.
BERMAN: Tonight, more states are dropping mask mandates, Massachusetts, Illinois and Rhode Island now as plans today to begin rolling back these mandates, also New York which will keep masks in schools for now while relaxing restrictions and indoor businesses starting tomorrow.
Meantime, the CDC is facing pressure from governor's to issue new guidance on masks and that's coming soon. But for now the CDC director has this message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROCHELLE WALENSKY, DIRECTOR, CDC: Our hospitalizations are still high, our death rates are still high. So as we work towards that and as we are encouraged by the current trends, we are not there yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Hospitalizations are down 21% from a week ago with just more than 100,000 people currently hospitalized deaths are down more than 2% but still high.
Joining us for the perspective on all this, CNN medical analyst Dr. Leana Wen, the former Baltimore health commissioner and author of Lifelines A Doctor's Journey In The Fight For Public Health. And CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, author of World War C Lessons From The COVID-19 Pandemic And How To Prepare For The Next One.
Sanjay, this is the first time you've been with us since governor started announcing their plans to lift these mass mandates. What do you think of them, especially since Dr. Walensky says we're not there yet?
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: There's a lot of virus out there still. I mean, that's the thing. You know, you and I've talked about this a lot. I mean, this idea of thinking about this, like the weather there, it's still raining a lot of virus out there. It's part of those CDC projections, they still think that over the next four weeks, 60,000 more people could die. I mean, these are still just tragic numbers. At the same time, the numbers are coming down. And we know Omicron is not as deadly. It doesn't make people as sick as these previous variants.
Let me show you quickly, John, Oregon, this is one of the states where they're talking about rolling back these mask mandates at some point soon. You can see like, if you see, you know, previously what happened sort of middle of June of last year, they lifted mandates. And, you know, pretty soon after that, the Delta surge and sort of straight up the numbers went and they reinstated mandates at some point or around masks. This was the hospitalizations that that went up at that point. And you can see the hospitalizations are still high. Again, they're coming down.
It's tough. It's a tough call. They're trying to sort of anticipate what things are going to look like over the next several days and weeks. And we know there's been a lot of changes. The metric that I keep coming back to is hospitalizations, hospitals are still pretty full. And if you start reducing, you know, the some of these mitigation measures at this point, you do run the risk of keeping those hospitalization levels too high.
BERMAN: So Dr. Wen, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki was asked by CNN today who parents and teachers should listen to, their governors of the CDC. She said the White House advises Americans to follow the CDC guidelines, which of course still calls for indoor masking in schools. So what are parents supposed to do?
LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Right, it's extremely confusing. First of all, I think that the CDC really needs to do a lot better here. No one's expecting the CDC to say overnight, everything is safe, go take off your mask. People want a roadmap, it would be great if they can lay out metrics. For example, as Sanjay was saying, if hospitalizations fall below a certain number, that's when mask mandates can start coming off. Laying out that kind of roadmap is just common sense.
As to what parents should do. Assuming that their school is going to be allowing masks to be optional. I would advise them to think about three things. One, is what is the medical circumstance of their household? Two, is the value of going maskless for that family. And the third is, what about is there an alternative that they have -- how do they view this risk of contracting COVID.
And so, specifically if a family is fully vaccinated, the child is vaccinated the -- everybody else is boosted, it would be reasonable to say, let's really think about do we need masking in schools? Do we really value not contracting COVID versus somebody else who has vulnerable family members, that child should be wearing a high quality mask in school because we know that one way masking works very well to protect against COVID even if others are not masking to. BERMAN: So Sanjay, the New York Governor Kathy Hochul, wants to wait to lift mask mandates in schools until after the February break. She wants parents to have home tests and will be asked to test their child twice. Is that a safe way to approach this?
BERMAN: You know, I think this is one of those other these -- another one of the measures that we're talking about. I think testing does make a big difference here. And, you know, I've said many times I think it's the original sin that we've not had enough vision on exactly, you know, that the data being able to really quantify this problem.
So, you know, she says at that point after, I guess the break, being able to do two tests and determine at that point, whether or not they're going to lift mandates, we're probably going to see a different sort of position by that point overall, in that community as well that the case has may come down even further. And as Leana is saying, as long as there's a specific benchmark in terms of hospitalizations, I think that's key. Hospitalizations right now, still higher than they were during Delta. So hopefully, they continue to come down. But it's still a bit of an issue right now.
BERMAN: We have a bit of breaking news, Sanjay, that I do want to ask you about right now and has to do with Bob Saget. His family put out a statement saying authorities have determined that he passed away from head trauma, the statement continued to say authorities have concluded that he accidentally hit the back of his head on something, thought nothing of it and went to sleep. He was staying in a hotel in Orlando when he died. I know you weren't involved in the investigation, but as a neurosurgeon, you know, what do you think when you hear that?
GUPTA: It's just sad. I mean, that's the first thing I think of I mean, and it's, it's quite possible the plausible mechanism that someone you know, would hit their head significantly enough to cause bleeding, either right on top of the brain or between the layers, the either a subdural sort of hematoma, I can show you an image of what this looks like.
But basically, what happens is in that sort of situation, again, sad, it's tough to talk about this way so clinical. But you know, some of the veins that are on top of the brain, they can tear as a result of that head trauma. Hitting your head pretty forcefully on something where you may say that that really hurt, if I were in a different situation, maybe I'd go get a checked out. But instead sounds like maybe he just went to sleep thinking it was not that serious. That's what I read in that statement, that bleeding accumulates over the next several hours, and someone loses consciousness and subsequently they die. He was alone. So now obviously, no one checking in on him.
So, it's just it's an unusual situation a little bit, the way that it's sort of been outlined here. But it's pretty tragic. But it can happen just the way that I described it.
BERMAN: You had to take care of injuries so seriously. Sanjay, thank you very much, Dr. Leana Wen, I appreciate you being with us tonight, as always. Just ahead, we have more breaking news on the Canadian trucker bLockeade. What the Department of Homeland Security in the U.S. is now saying about those kinds of protests happening here and the major events that could potentially disrupt also. Donie O'Sullivan in the Canadian Capitol talking to the protesters about why they're dead set against vaccine mandates?
BERMAN: More breaking news. This on the Canadian trucker blockade processing vaccine mandates. The Department of Homeland Security is telling law enforcement authorities, it's receiving reports that a similar kind of convoy could soon begin in the U.S. and could potentially try to disrupt the Super Bowl, the State of the Union address and more.
Donie O'Sullivan at the center of the protests in the Canadian capital of Ottawa.
DYLAN FRIESEN, PROTESTING VACCINE MANDATES IN CANADA: And all these mandates gone, and I'm not leaving until all the mandates are gone.
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): What is the stuff that you can't do right now as a non-vaccinated person?
SAMUEL GAUTHIER, SUPPORTING TRUCKERS PROTESTING IN CANADA: I live in Quebec, so it's a bit more intense than other places in Canada. But look, I can't go skiing, I can't go to Walmart, I can't go to Canadian Tire, I can't go to Home Depot, I can't go to restaurants, I can't go to bars, I can't go to the gym.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Truckers here in Canada have brought part of the country's capital to a standstill right outside the national parliament.
FRIESEN: I was hired on at a job not too long ago for a transport company to Whitby, Ontario. And I was let go due to not willing to get the vaccines for my job. And I mean, that's not right for companies to be able to decide that and take away our right to earn money and support our livelihood.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Now this is all happening despite these protesters representing a small minority of Canadians, more than 80% of eligible Canadians are fully vaccinated. And the Canadian Trucking Alliance, the primary advocacy group for Canadian truckers, which has condemned these protests, has said about 85% of Canadian truckers who regularly crossed the U.S. border are vaccinated.
(on-camera): And for you, it is important for you to be here today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, because --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fake news. Sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- because like your --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't talk to them they're the fake news.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): But despite the fact that these people may be part of a minority in Canada, they are receiving a lot of support from conservatives and other right-wing figures in the United States.
PETER SLOLY, CHIEF, OTTAWA POLICE SERVICE: We are now aware of a significant element from the United States that have been involved in the funding, the organizing, and the demonstrating.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): The Canadian truckers are heroes, they are patriots and they are marching for your freedom and for my freedom.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): This is very much a 21st century protests playing out as much on the internet as it is on the streets, viral memes and sometimes false and highly offensive historical comparisons that circulate online are being repeated verbatim here like this.
Because you're not vaccinated have you -- is their businesses, is there stuff you can't do in Canada now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, like I'm like, I'm like, well, basically, if you want to compare Canada, to anything, it's like Hitler's Germany. And we're like the Jews say. One of the goals is to simply -- is to get a group of people you can get everybody angry with and this case is the unvaccinated.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): There's a lot of people here streaming live online.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm just going to follow you guys make sure you tell the truth.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): That's right. Good.
(voice-over): Documenting every moment on social media.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You take those cans off of that truck. Is that your property?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is now.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): In an effort to clear the protesters, police have begun confiscating gas canisters, resulting in encounters like this, that cLocke up thousands of views online.
JIM KERR, PROTESTER: My name is Jim Kerr, and I give a shit about communion (ph). How do you feel?
Hi, my name is Jim Kerr. And I care about human beings, especially once they're trying to keep themselves warms in a truck while fighting for the freedoms of Canadians. How you feel?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The main problem I have is all the censorship that's going on. That's the main problem that I have. There is censorship everywhere. Yes. People's accounts get taken down even Facebook if you don't say the right thing, even this convoy, a lot of groups started and people are even live streaming and all sudden, I heard yesterday in the restaurant, my feed was cut, my feed was cut.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Facebook shut down some groups on its platform supporting the truckers after the online outlet Grid News found that they were being administered by a hacked account that had belonged to a woman in Missouri. So whoever was really running the groups wanted to hide their identity. And GoFundMe shut down a fundraiser for the truckers after police told him the protests had become an occupation. But organizers here have still been able to raise millions of dollars through an alternative service, a self- described Christian fundraising platform. Organizers say the money will help keep the truckers on the street.
DONALD TRUMP (R) FMR PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: We want those great Canadian truckers to know that we are with them all the way.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Trump indicating he is supportive of truckers descending on Washington D.C., other American right wing figures goading their audiences to act.
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: The question is how long before protests like this come here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we need our own trucker rally to end all of this insanity once and for all?
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): What is the main goal the main objective of the truckers here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Freedom.
O'SULLIVAN: And just interests the Department of Homeland Security in the U.S. is warning law enforcement that truckers might start protesting in the U.S. our colleague Geneva Sands obtaining this memo was sent to law enforcement today that read in part well, there are currently no indications of planned violence if hundreds of trucks converge in a major metropolitan city. The potential exists to severely disrupt transportation the federal government and emergency services through gridLocke and potential counterprotests.
So John, as you heard it there, you heard how right-wing personalities both on television and online are calling for these sorts of demonstrations in the U.S. the DHS tonight had warning. And I should just mention John as we said in this piece, look, there's enough trucks here to bring downtown Ottawa to a standstill this part of the city here, but it they are a minority 80%, 800% of Canadians are fully vaccinated.
BERMAN: It doesn't take a lot. Donie O'Sullivan, thank you so much for being there.
In a moment the family attorney of Amira Locke, Benjamin Crump on no- knock warrants the shooting death of a 22-year-old Black man the police weren't even looking for.
BERMAN: Protesters in Minneapolis had been demanding justice for Amir Locke, a 22-year-old Black man killed after police enter an apartment using a no-knock warrant. Last night we told you about the rest of Locke's 17-year-old cousin wanted to connection to a murder. He was one of the people police were looking for when they entered the apartment where Locke was sleeping. Court documents and police body cam video indicate the police enter the apartment yelling commands they found Locke under a blanket on the couch. Police say officers kick the couch and that Locke then rose holding a gun that is when he was shot. Family and friends say Amir was an innocent victim.
I spoke with family attorney Benjamin Crump earlier tonight.
BERMAN (on-camera): Mr. Crump thanks so much for joining us. I want to first start off with the Locke family. How are they doing tonight?
BENJAMIN CRUMP, AMIR LOCKE'S FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well they're devastated. They can't believe that their son was killed while he was sleeping on the couch.
BERMAN (on-camera): That's a lot to take for any family. It goes without saying counselor. The 17-year-old cousin of Amir Locke who prompted the police raid in the first place has now been arrested, according to law enforcement officials. What are you able to tell us about where that stands tonight?
CRUMP: Well, we don't know anything about where that stands. But we do know that Amir Locke should not be killed because of something that a relative did. When you really think about it, he was sentenced to death when they executed that no-knock warrant by something that was done by somebody else. That is why these no no-knock warrant are so dangerous, because you don't give innocent people opportunity to know who's breaking into their home.
BERMAN (on-camera): So as you know, the City of Minneapolis updated their no-knock policy in 2020, indicating that officers would be required to announce their presence and purpose for entry except in instances like hostile situations or imminent threats. In your view, was this one of those instances?
CRUMP: Absolutely not. And when you think about the fact that they execute these no-knock warrant disproportionately against Black and brown people, it further raises alarm to me another civil rights advocate that you must do away with these no-knock warrants if you're going to do them only against marginalized people of color. And when the Breonna Taylor was killed, they did a study of how the no-knock warrants were been issued in the previous two years and they found out that 82% of the no-knock warrant executed in Louisville Kentucky were against African-American, 68% of the time, they found absolutely nothing after they busted in the Black people's home.
BERMAN (on-camera): Just to be clear, was Amir Locke listed on the warrant itself that law enforcement had?
CRUMP: Amir Locke was not listed on the warrant that the police had to do to no-knock search. He was an innocent young man, sleeping on the couch, who woke up to these people yelling and screaming, and he did what any reasonable law abiding citizen who was licensed to carry a gun would have done and that's reached for his weapon to protect himself and his (INAUDIBLE).
BERMAN (on-camera): You're talking about the gun, he was licensed for that gun, he did legally possess it?
CRUMP: He did so. And Black people have a right to the Second Amendment.
BERMAN (on-camera): And so counselor, you represent a George Floyd's family. And now the Minneapolis Police Department is once again, under scrutiny. What needs to be done to prevent situations like this going forward?
CRUMP: The Minneapolis Police Department in the city of Minneapolis just as many cities in America have to have policies that don't violate the constitutional rights of Black people against excessive force. What we believe killed George Floyd just as much as Derek Chauvin's knee on his neck, was the fact that they had a policy that allow police officers to choke Black people and use excessive force against them. And we believe in Amir Locke what killed him just as much as the bullets from the police officers gun was this flagrant policy of no-knock warrants that allowed them to violate the Fourth Amendment rights of marginalized people of color whenever they chose to do so. And we have to say that the Constitution applies to every American, even Black and brown American.
BERMAN (on-camera): Ben Crump, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much.
CRUMP: Thank you so much John.
BERMAN: And we'll be right back.
[21:00:21] BERMAN: The news continues. Time for Laura Coates in "CNN TONIGHT."