Return to Transcripts main page

Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Russia has Significant Forces In Eastern Ukraine According To U.S. Official; Ukraine Is A Crime Scene Says Top International Criminal Court Prosecutor After Visiting Bucha; Russian Warship Sinks After Ukraine Claims Missile Strike; Sources Say, Ukraine's Claim Of Missile Strike On Russian Cruiser Believed To Be Credible; New York City Subway Shooting Suspect Arraigned, Held Without Bail; Parents Of Patrick Lyoya Call For Prosecution Of Michigan Police Officer Who Killed Their Son During Traffic Stop. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired April 14, 2022 - 20:00   ET



OLIWIA DABROWSKA, "SCHINDLER'S LIST" ACTRESS: I believe there is hope for the future for Ukraine, and that is why the girl in the blue dress became a symbol of hope for me. We must stand with Ukraine, with the Ukrainian people. And remember about the Second World War, what was happening. We cannot let this happen again.


ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Growing up to do great things. Thanks so much for joining us. AC 360 starts now.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Eastern Ukraine braces for impact as Russia's new offensive gears up and Ukrainians celebrate as the flagship of Russia's Black Sea Fleet goes down.

John Berman here, in for Anderson, and as we come here tonight, there was a major development in the sinking of the Russian cruiser, Moskva. Two sources familiar with American and Western Intelligence now tell CNN that the Ukrainian claim that their missiles were responsible is believed to be credible.

As for just how credible, one other source familiar with the latest Intelligence says the U.S. believes Ukraine's version of events, which Russia disputes with, quote, "medium confidence." Ukraine's National Security Adviser speaking to CNN's Fred Pleitgen tonight had this warning for Vladimir Putin.


OLEKSIY DANILOV, UKRAINIAN NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER (through translator): That is our gift to him, and this is just the beginning. This is just the beginning. There will be more than one Moskva.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: We'll have much more on this tonight, which has been a

galvanizing development in the war. Also a nuclear weapons warning from Russia in response to Finland and Sweden now considering joining NATO, and there are multiple developments on Russia's building offensive in Eastern Ukraine.

A senior American Defense official tonight says that Russian troops pulled from their defeat in Northern Ukraine are now appearing in the east, and across the area, the shelling is already intense.


BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ukrainian officials say the offensive in the Donbas region, the eastern part of Ukraine has begun.

Perhaps it has.


BERMAN: Whatever you call it, it has apparently been building since Ben Wedeman filed that report with widespread shelling now reported across the area according to Ukrainian military officials.

And from the liberated suburbs of Kyiv, just staggering images. This was an apartment complex in Borodyanka, a town subjected first to heavy Russian bombardment, then occupation, then brutality as Russian troops retreated.


(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: They were driving right over dead bodies. Now, I don't know how I am going to get into the cemetery.

Are there landmines in the cemetery? Are there landmines in the cemetery?

I don't know whether to go to the cemetery or not.


BERMAN: Not far from there in Bucha, Karim Khan, the International Criminal Courts Chief Prosecutor surveyed the destruction and he summed it up this way. Ukraine, he said, is a crime scene. We have to pierce the fog of war to get to the truth.

Doing that for us tonight. CNN its chief international correspondent, Clarissa Ward just back from the frontlines as is CNN's Ben Wedeman who joins us as well. CNN's Kaitlan Collins is at the White House for us tonight and in Washington, CNN's Matthew Chance with more on the sinking of the Moskva.

First, this from Clarissa Ward.


CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The town of Avdiivka is no stranger to war. For eight years, this has been the frontline of Ukraine's battle with Russian-backed separatists.

People here are used to shelling, they had never experienced anything like this. A missile can be heard overhead, as an emotional man approaches us.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)

WARD (voice over): "They smashed the old part of town," he says. As we talk, the artillery intensifies.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)

WARD (on camera): I told him it's better to go home now because there's a lot of shelling and he said there's more shelling where he lives.

WARD (voice over): As Russia prepares a major offensive in the east, frontline towns like Avdiivka are getting pummeled.

WARD (on camera): So you can hear constant bombardment. This is a bomb shelter down here, but you can see this building has already been hit.

WARD (voice over): More than 40 people are now living in what used to be a clothing store. Lida (ph) and her two sons have been here for three weeks. She wants to leave but says her boys are too scared to go outside.


(LIDA speaking in foreign language.)

WARD (voice over): "We're afraid to stay and afraid to go," she tells us, "But it's fate. Whether you run or don't run."

On an apartment block, an icon of the Virgin Mary has been painted. A plea for protection, but there is no respite in the bombardment.

WARD (on camera): If we look over here, we can see the remnants of some fresh strikes.

WARD (voice over): Thirty-seven-year-old government worker, Ratislav (ph) looks at what remains of his family home. He takes us inside to see the full scale of the destruction.

WARD (on camera): It is completely destroyed. (Speaking in foreign language.)

(RATISLAV speaking in foreign language.)

WARD (voice over): Mercifully, no one was at home at the time of the strike.

RATISLAV: It was photo albums. My children's photographs.

WARD (voice over): His family has already left, but he says he plans to stay.

(RATISLAV speaking in foreign language.)

WARD (voice over): "I'm afraid like anybody else. Only the dead aren't afraid," he tells us, "But a lot of people are still here in Avdiivka living in bomb shelters and we need to support them."

Authorities say roughly 2,000 people remain in this town. There is no water no heat. Electricity is spotty. The local school has become a hub to gather aid and distributed to the community.

(IGOR GOLOTUV speaking in foreign language.)

WARD (voice over): Volunteer, Igor Golotuv (ph) spends his days visiting the elderly and disabled. Today, he is checking in on 86- year-old Lydia, petrified and alone, he has yet to find an organization willing to come and evacuate her.

(LYDIA speaking in foreign language.)

WARD (voice over): "When there is no electricity and it's so dark and there's shelling," she says, "You can't imagine how scary it is." She tells us she recites prayers to get through the night. "I never imagined that my end would be like this," she says. "You can't even die here because there is no one to provide a burial ceremony."

For Igor, it is agony not to be able to do more.

(IGOR GOLOTUV speaking in foreign language.)

WARD (voice over): "I promise you," he says, "I will help you to be evacuated."

As we leave, Lydia is reluctant to say goodbye. It is terrifying to live through this time, to do it alone is torture.

(LYDIA speaking in foreign language.)

WARD (voice over): "It is so nice to see real people," she says. "Probably it's going to get worse." A prediction all but certain to come true, because a second Russian offensive draws near.


BERMAN: And Clarissa Ward joins us now along with Kaitlan Collins and Ben Wedeman.

Clarissa first of all, the shelling there, the constant shelling it's like a nonstop thunderstorm. But also let me just ask about Lydia who says "I can't even die here because there's no one to bury me." Do you know, if she was able to be evacuated? Do you have an update? WARD: Very sadly, John, she has not been evacuated yet. And I have to

say that walking out of that apartment and leaving her alone in that state was really one of the hardest things I've done as a journalist.

I know that Igor is working really hard, the volunteer, to try to find someone, but she needs the way they explained it to me, she needs a chaperone to help her leave this area.

She is in a wheelchair, she requires significant assistance. She doesn't have any money. She doesn't have any family here in Ukraine.

Ironically, her son actually lives in Russia, is aware of what's going on and was the one to actually call Igor and this volunteer group. But so far, they just have not been able to find a way to get her out and also to find an appropriate facility to send her to and this is something we're hearing again and again when we talk to people in Avdiivka. There are so many people who would actually be open to leaving, but they are concerned that they don't have any money, they don't know where they're going to go.

And the logistics are just not really in place yet to give these people some serious options -- John.

BERMAN: Didn't want to let go of your hand, that was just devastating.

Ben, you visited a city about five hours northeast of Mariupol. I want to play a portion of a piece you filed. Let's watch.


(ULIANA speaking in foreign language.)

WEDEMAN: I'm sitting on a hospital bed, Uliana (ph) recounts the night her house was hit.


(ULIANA speaking in foreign language.)

WEDEMAN (voice over): "I was in the kitchen and it started," she says. Her home is now in ruins.

More than 20 corpses lie scattered in the hospital's morgue wrapped in sheets and blankets awaiting burial.


BERMAN: So Ben, as you've traveled, can you describe the destruction you've seen and what you think the Russians' goal might be?

WEDEMAN: Well, in Sievierodonetsk, what we saw was a city that has been subjected to not massive bombardment in terms of the size of the ordnance, but rather relentless bombardment by what seems to be cluster munitions. So there, you can barely find a house or a building that hasn't been

in some way damaged. There is broken glass everywhere. There are small knots of people walking around town, many of them looking for food.

Now there is food available at distribution centers, but for the most part, it has to be brought to people by volunteers who really are risking their lives, driving their own cars, going from building to building handing out food.

But really what struck me in that city was just the other sort of random nature of the bombardment. There was clearly no intention to specifically target military positions. It's just everywhere.

And obviously, in the city, most places are civilian installations or houses, excuse me, and really, the feeling I got there was that the Russian goal is simply to terrorize people, to demoralize people, to bring life to its lowest level.

The electricity there didn't work much of the time. There's very little in the way of running water, and the Russians are really just up the road. This is -- it is next -- adjacent to a town where the Russians occupied most of it. There is street fighting going on, and the Ukrainian military says they believe that Sievierodonetsk could be the next city the Russians try to take.

BERMAN: I say there is so much suffering, the world sees it, but the Ukrainians bear it.

And Kaitlan, you know, obviously, the White House is seeing what's going on there and reports like what we are seeing from Clarissa and Ben here. What is the latest on whether the President is going to dispatch a high level envoy to Kyiv, and how much pressure does it put on the White House, the fact that the British Prime Minister Boris Johnson did go to Kyiv?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I don't know if it puts pressure on the White House, John, but it definitely does put questions to them of whether or not this is something that President Biden himself wants to do.

Of course, remember when he was in Warsaw, he said that he had actually wanted to go into Ukraine. That was a few weeks ago. And he said he wasn't allowed to basically because of safety reasons and the determinations they make about sending a President into a war zone where there's no U.S. troop presence.

But he did confirm today they are talking privately about sending someone from the Biden administration, to Ukraine, and I'm told right now, it's very unlikely that would be President Biden or Vice President Harris.

They just say that is not something that's currently in the works here at the White House, but maybe Defense Secretary Austin or Secretary of State Blinken, someone high profile to go there as a show of symbolic support right now, because, of course, we've talked about the Intelligence sharing, we've talked about the weapons that the U.S. is providing to Ukraine, but also having a presidential visit, a presidential level visit, someone from his delegation to go into Ukraine would be another show of support.

But I think the one thing that they're wrestling with is obviously, it's an act of war zone. You saw Ben and Clarissa's reports of what's happening on the ground. They're warning about another offensive in the east, and I think also, logistically speaking, it's very difficult because British Prime Minister Boris Johnson had to take a helicopter, a car, a several-hour train ride to get there, because you can't just fly to Ukraine like you typically would.

And so, I think all of that is being under consideration as they are discussing this.

BERMAN: So Clarissa, you reported on the atrocities in Syria that occurred under the Russian General that is being called the Butcher of Syria. How do you think Russian tactics may change under his leadership, especially as the Russians form this sort of three-pronged offensive in the east?

WARD: Well, I think you can expect to see more brute force. You know, I think what Ben said there was very important, the idea here is not to necessarily hit any one specific strategic objective. The idea is to terrorize. The idea is to make it clear to ordinary civilians that there is no possibility of having a normal life and this is something we saw over and over again in Syria with, you know schools were attacked.


WARD: Hospitals were attacked. I witnessed a fruit market that was bombed.

And the other big difference, though, I would say, between what we saw in Syria, and what we're seeing here, Syria was really about Russia taking ownership of the skies, engaging in brutal bombardment. But having a relatively light footprint on the ground, relying a lot on the Syrian Army and its various proxies in the form of Hezbollah and others.

The situation here is quite different. The airspace is still contested, which is in itself, a remarkable thing, and they are certainly going to face a formidable resistance as we saw in the sort of northern failed offensive from Ukrainian forces and Ukrainian forces are also significantly more sophisticated, both in their makeup and in their weaponry than the Syrian rebels were.

So this is going to be a different battle to what we saw in Syria, but I think you can expect from General Aleksandr Dvornikov to see some of these very brutal tactics, particularly if it becomes clear that Russia is not getting the victory that it so desperately covets at this stage in an expedient manner.

The minute their backs are up against a wall, you can expect to see them resort to the kind of truly horrendous attacks that we've seen, for example, in the Southeastern City of Mariupol. BERMAN: Ben Wedeman, you're in Kramatorsk. I understand you've been

hearing some shelling. Can you tell us what's going on?

WEDEMAN: Yes, this has actually been going on for quite a few hours. It's not in the city itself, I think, it's on the outskirts of the city. But it's not necessarily unusual.

Tonight, it's a little bit more, but for instance, this afternoon, there was a factory that was hit in a missile strike. And this city is very much kind of right in the middle of what is expected to be pincer movement from the north and the south, and possibly from the east as well.

This is the administrative center for the Ukrainian part of the Donbas region, and it would be a very important target for the Russians if they were to move ahead, and they probably will -- John.

BERMAN: Ben Wedeman, Clarissa Ward, Kaitlan Collins -- you're all doing such important reporting. Thank you so much for your work.

Ahead tonight, our military analysts weigh in on how significant the sinking of the Moskva truly is.

Plus, the latest on a Russian fleet that's not quite sinking, but it sure is shrinking as one more mega-yacht, this one worth as much as $750 million is seized.

And later, new developments in the wake of the New York Subway shooting, new questions about why cameras in the stations where it happened, were useless.



BERMAN: Beyond the occasional cruise missile attack on Southern Ukraine, we have not heard much until now about the part that Russian naval power has played in the invasion. Now we know, it is playing the unexpected role of punching bag.

Several weeks ago, Ukrainian forces claimed to have destroyed a Russian landing ship in the Port of Berdyansk. And tonight, the guided missile cruiser Moskva, flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, is at the bottom of the said Black Sea.

CNN's Matthew Chance joins us now with late developments on the credibility of Ukraine's account of the sinking. Matthew, what are both sides saying about how this warship sunk?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting. The Russians were saying they haven't acknowledged there has been an attack at all. They were simply saying that there was a fire on board the Moskva, the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet that caused hull damage, and as it was being towed into port, it sank in stormy waters, a very different version of events from Ukrainians. They say they fired two anti-ship missiles at that ship and set it

ablaze, and it started to capsize and they sunk it. The U.S. actually, within the past couple of hours, which had been staying out of this is saying that it finds the Ukrainian version of events, that it fired missiles at this ship, as being somewhat credible. And so, the U.S. are erring on the side of the Ukrainian story.

It's interesting because this ship, the Moskva, is a ship that we've seen before. I actually was on board of it in 2015 when it was off the Coast of Syria and got a firsthand look at just how formidable a weapon it is or was for the Kremlin. Take a look.


CHANCE (voice over): The now sunken flagship of Russia's Black Sea Fleet, the Moskva was always about intimidation and delivering a blunt message from the Kremlin, whether to Ukraine or elsewhere.

Well, this is an extremely impressive bit of military hardware out here in the Eastern Mediterranean.

When we went to board this once powerful symbol of Russian naval power off the Syrian Coast in 2015, the ship's Captain told me, they deployed on the personal orders of President Putin, furious a Russian aircraft had been shot down by Turkey just weeks before.

"The Moskva bristling with its missiles is a threatening weapon," the Captain warned.

The loss of this raw firepower now, which we witnessed at close quarters seven years ago is a humiliating military blow.

CHANCE (on camera): And you can see it's got these enormous missile launching tubes which can carry a nuclear missile, although we are told there are none on board at the moment. It's got this big gun as well to defend itself. But most importantly, this ship, the Moskva, has very sophisticated surface-to-air missiles and that's why it's been deployed here off the Coast of Syria to provide air defenses for the Russian warplanes that carry out their air strikes back there in Syria.


CHANCE (voice over): That same weaponry was unleashed on Ukraine, too. These recent images from the Russian Defense Ministry showed the Moskva firing cruise missiles from the Black Sea.

The ship was also involved in the Russian takeover of a Ukrainian Island early on in the war. Ukrainian troops refusing to surrender, telling the Moscow where to go.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: Russian warship, go [bleep] yourself.

CHANCE (voice over): Confirmation this Black Sea flagship has now been sunk will be a major boost for Ukrainian morale, but it's another big loss in Russia's staggering war.


CHANCE (on camera): Well, there's a sense from the Ukrainians tonight that this is retribution, one Ukrainian official telling CNN that Putin came to kill our children, our women and our civilians, and this is our gift in return to him. Back to you.

BERMAN: Matthew, to think that that ship that you were on is now at the bottom of the Black Sea. What a development. I also understand you have some reporting tonight on a Russian oligarch who was arrested in Ukraine. What more are you learning about that?

CHANCE: Yes, this is Viktor Medvedchuk. He is said to have been Putin's man in Ukraine. He was a leader or is a leader of a pro- Russian opposition party in the country. You can see him there in military fatigues. He was under house arrest before the war. He escaped from that house arrest when the war began.

There had been sort of thoughts that he'd gone back or gone to Russia, but he is there, he has been captured. He is in handcuffs, and he is facing treason charges in Ukraine.

We spoke to his lawyer earlier on today and various other people associated with him. And they said: Look, he is innocent. Putin's invasion of Ukraine is not evidence against him. His wife has also issued an appeal to President Zelenskyy of Ukraine to release him.

But the Ukrainians are doubling down, saying they've detained much of his property, 20 or couple of dozen of his houses, several dozen of his cars and various other items of property, to hold this person somewhat responsible, they think for the terrible things at least in part that have happened to the country over the past 50 days.

BERMAN: Matthew Chance, thank you for your reporting. Great to see you.

And on a related note, it looks like another Russian oligarch is going to have to settle for a Carnival Cruise. We got word today that authorities in Hamburg, Germany have impounded a super-yacht worth anywhere from $600 million to three-quarters of a billion dollars.

German Federal Criminal Police say it belongs to the sister of Russian oligarch and Putin ally, Alisher Usmanov.

In March, Italian authorities say they seized $90 million worth of his assets. He has also been sanctioned by the European Union.

Just ahead, more on the sinking of the Moskva with military analysis of its implications from two retired U.S. Generals.



BERMAN: As we mentioned, sources tell CNN that U.S. and western intelligence believe that Ukraine's claim of responsibility for sinking of the Russian warship Moskva is credible. The agencies have no definitive proof.

Earlier today, Pentagon Spokesman John Kirby told CNN it's certainly plausible and possible, a major symbolic victory for the Ukrainians regardless. The acknowledgement of the sinking comes just two days after Ukraine issued this stamp commemorating the moment when a sailor on Snake Island famously told the Moskva crew Russian warship go F yourself.

That's the Moskva in the background of the stamp, you can see it right there, the flagship of Russia's Black Sea Fleet, a symbol of everything the Ukrainians are fighting against, now at the bottom of the sea.

I'm joined now by Retired Brigadier General Peter Zwack, a former U.S. Defense Attache to Russia, and, Retired Lt. General Mark Hertling, a CNN Military Analyst.

General Hertling, let me start with you. What does the loss of this ship mean for the Russian Navy both strategically and in terms of morale?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It's a pretty big deal, John, a very big deal. What I would suggest is the Ukrainian view is one that I abide by because their ministry of defense put out word about two hours before the Russians said there was a fire on board. So, I have a kind of a lean toward the Ukrainian intelligence more so than the Russian intelligence.

When you're talking about other lies that have been told, as they were towing that ship in, that very wounded ship, in the Sevastopol, they claim a storm sank it. Looking at the weather reports outside of Sevastopol today, the winds were about 4 miles an hour with 40 degree temperatures and a little bit of rain.

So, I'm not sure Russia has yet come to grips with the loss of this command and control ship. This is a flagship, this means that this is the one ship of the Black Sea Fleet that controls the other ships that are maneuvering in that area and would have been the potential amphibious assault on the shores near Odessa.

So, it is a big deal tactically, for sure, but from a morale purpose, it's a huge deal strategically. This is a $750 million ship with a lot of weapons that are supposed to defend against aircraft and cruise missiles, and they haven't done so, and now no longer can fire the cruise missiles that were on the ship.

BERMAN: Yes. And there are reports tonight that other vessels in the Black Sea pulled have away from the Ukrainian coast, created some distance, maybe because they're a little bit more worried than they were yesterday.

General Zwack, what kind of reaction do you anticipate from the Kremlin? BRIG. GEN. PETER ZWACK (RET.), FORMER U.S. DEFENSE ATTACHE TO RUSSIA: I think that this is a disaster for the Russians, and when you add -- and it doesn't matter if the attack, if it blew up on its own accord, or was hit by the Ukrainian. It was a disaster for the Russian Navy, the Russian military, the prestige of the regime, both internationally and domestically.

What it means is, I think, that if this thing could even get more vicious, we're going into that phase. And you add the sinking of the Moskva, Moscow, to the disaster in out and around Kyiv and the terrible losses of the Russian military in Ukraine means they paid a terrible cost too and the breaking, seemingly, of morale.


This is going to lead, in my opinion, to an unbelievably ferocious endgame, if you will, to take on Mariupol, Ukraine's Stalingrad, and also a full-out, all-out push in the Donbas directly in a bludgeon way and then through pincers where all the help we can be giving the Ukrainians is critical now.

BERMAN: Let's talk about the Donbas, General Hertling. A senior U.S. defense official tells CNN that they assess there are just 65 operational Russian battalion tactical groups in Ukraine today, mostly located in the south and east of the country, what kind of fore size do you think they would need to launch the major offensive in Donbas?

HERTLING: Much larger than that, John. You know, what I would say, if I were the commander on the Russian side right now, General Dvornikov, I would be really focused on a force regeneration. He has failed in that, a new way to get logistics to the front line, because the Russians have failed in that in the first phase of this operation. And then if he does do that, he is going to be looking to use the Russian tactics of breakthrough operations.

What that consists of is really a lot of massive artillery barrages at the front, trying to find a hole in the front of that trench line, as part of the Donbas, and then pushing forces through as best he can.

Now, if I were the commander -- and I don't think they're going to be able to do any one of those three things very well. If I were in command of the Ukrainian forces, I would be trying to ensure my force was very flexible with a lot of reserve forces in the area and quick reaction forces to address any kind of breakthrough operations and then I would also be considering lightening my logistics and supply requirements so I can move quickly around that 300-mile frontage, which is the Donbas.

So, both forces are going to come into this second part of the operations with a different approach. John, Dvornikov is not going to be able to fix the Russian army. He may be the new commander and he may have a great reputation but some of the things that he's going to find in his force are systemic and he's not going to be able to overcome them.

BERMAN: General Zwack, Dmitry Medvedev, who is the deputy chair of Russia Security Council, often see this Putin's kind of number two, again, raised the specter of nuclear weapons in response to Finland and Sweden potentially joining NATO. He said, quote, there can be no more talk of any nuclear free status for the Baltic. The balance must be restored.

So, what are the Russians trying do with that? What kind of responses are they trying to provoke maybe from NATO there?

ZWACK: This is sheer intimidation. It used to be what you call a semi-moderate. He was President Obama's counterpart for four years in Russia. No, he's all in. This is bluster. This is intimidation. They have pushed Finland and Sweden to thinking actively about it.

NATO is open-minded. It is another, if you will, of the multiple nightmares that the Russians have created for themselves, pulling together the Ukrainians, pulling together NATO, now E.U., neutral nations, considering joining NATO. Finland has a long border, nobody wants to attack Russia from Finland, but Russians know the Finns will fight and the nuclearization is intimidation.

BERMAN: General Peter Zwack, Mark Hertling, thank you so much for being with us tonight.

HERTLING: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Up next, the New York City subway shooting suspect appears in court. The details when 360 continues.



BERMAN: The suspect in Tuesday's New York City subway mass shooting appeared in Federal Court this afternoon, he, and we're not saying his name, did not enter a plea and his being held without bail. He's charged with carrying out a terrorist attack on a mass transit system. If convicted, he could face life in prison.

There's still lot of an answered questions about the attack and investigation, including why some subway cameras were not operating as they should have. Here's our Gary Tuchman.


GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The New York City's 472 subway stations, there are approximately 10,000 surveillance cameras. Every station has at least one. But listen to what New York City's transit boss have to say, Wednesday.

JANNO LIEBER, CEO, METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY: Yes, there were a couple of cameras that definitely had internet hook-up linkage problems yesterday.

TUCHMAN: cameras involved in the shooting and the escape, faulty computer systems disrupted the feed from the cameras. We talked to the former executive director of the Chicago Transit Authority.

ROBERT PAASWELL, FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CHICAGO TRANSIT AUTHORITY: The information from the camera wasn't able to get to the general circuit, to the general line, to the general control.

TUCHMAN: Robert Paaswell today is a distinguished Professor at City College of New York. He says diligently keeping the technology well maintained is essential.

PAASWELL: But you also want to make sure that if something isn't working, you have a team of people that you can get at quickly to repair these.

TUCHMAN: The locations of the subway system cameras are not any secret, although passengers usually don't pay attention to them, they're out in the open. For example, you can see one right here over the steps to the tracks.

This happens to be the 36th Street station in Brooklyn where this terrible incident happened, but when you walk through here, one camera here, one camera here, one here, and one here. When you enter the station, you're seen from all angles.

But when you go to different subway stations, the video systems vary based on the size and shape of the station. This is the 25th Street station. It's one stop north of where the alleged gunman fired the shots and this is where he got off the train and escaped and you can see that there is a camera right here. If this video system was working, it would have gotten very good video of the man.

MTA subway passengers we talked would expect the video surveillance system to work, particularly in these times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel like it's crazy that we invest so much money into like fares and things and they don't have a working camera. It's unbelievable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It does bother me, because, I mean, if we have the cameras, why aren't they working?


TUCHMAN: Law enforcement investigates what's seen on the MTA video cameras, but --

JOHN DEVITO, ATF SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: They're owned and maintained by the MTA. We have access to them, do regularly look to see which cameras are working, which ones are not, but the responsibility for those cameras belongs to the MTA.

TUCHMAN: The CEO of MTA does save video from other stations did capture images of the accused gunman and praises the subway system for doubling camera capacity over the past few years but acknowledges to CNN there is work to be done.

LIEBER: New Yorkers are riding the subways 3 million-plus a day. We are half -- basically half of the mass transit riders in the country, we even coming back fast. But there's no question, as your reporters said, there are some challenges in front of us.


TUCHMAN (on camera): John, we're told that this station where the shootings happened, the other station where the gunman escaped, the camera system is now fully operational, it's 100 percent good.

We're also told tonight the New York Police Department is saying that the MTA is a vital partner, that it's easy to cast blame, they do not want to do that. What they are saying is that the party responsible for what happened, this horrible thing, is the gunman. John?

BERMAN: Gary Tuchman, thank you very much for that report.

Coming up, the latest on a controversial police shooting in Michigan, a 26-year-old black driver dead, his family's attorney, Benjamin Crump, will join us.



BERMAN: The parents of a black motorist killed by a police officer ten days ago in Michigan are calling for the officer's job and his prosecution. This after authorities on Wednesday released videotapes of the traffic stop that ended with the death of the 26-year-old, Patrick Lyoya.

Omar Jimenez has the details.


DORCAS LYOYA, MOTHER OF PATRICK LYOYA: I'm really deeply hurt and wounded.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The parents of 26-year- old Patrick Lyoya speaking publicly through their pastor for the first time since police release video of their son being killed.

D. LYOYA: I think about him every time. And I still cannot believe that my son died.

JIMENEZ: The family came to the United States to flee war in the Democratic Republic of Congo. But it was in the United States that a bullet killed her son. The father still remembers asking police how his son was killed.

PETER LYOYA, FATHER OF PATRICK LYOYA: Very astonishing. They told me that he was killed by an officer. I didn't believe it. I said, the police that was supposed watching him, is the one who kill him.

JIMENEZ: Back on April 4th, shortly after being pulled over for what police say was improper car registration, Lyoya starts running. The officer chases and they go to the ground, beginning what would become minutes of wrestling and struggling.

The officer used his taser twice, but failed to make contact, as Lyoya puts his hands on the Taser when the two go to the ground for what would be the final time, struggling for a few brief moments before the officer's final words.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the taser.

1915. I was just involved in a shooting. Nelson. Griggs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sending medical.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 1915. I'm Nelson. North of Griggs. That's 10-4. Suspect down.

JIMENEZ: The officer got up. Lyoya didn't.

The shooting sparked a mass protest in downtown Grand Rapids. Centered on justice for a new face in what many see as a familiar story.

The officer who fired the shot still hasn't been named but has been stripped of his police powers. The Lyoya family's power is now focused on one thing.

P. LYOYA: If really Patrick is dead, I just ask for justice.


BERMAN: That was Omar Jimenez reporting. I'm joined now by the attorney for Patrick Lyoya's family, Benjamin Crump. Ben, thanks for join us. What does the family of Mr. Lyoya want to see happened? What are they demanding tonight?

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR PATRICK LYOYA'S FAMILY: Well, obviously, the thing they most fervently want is justice. But they understand it is going to be a journey. And so, immediately, they asked at the press conference today, John Berman, that they release the police officer's identity so they will know the name and the face of the person who executed their son.

BERMAN: Now, I want to warn people the video encounter, again, it's disturbing. I want to give people a moment before we play it again. But it's obviously central to understanding what happened. Do you believe that the officer had any valid reason to draw his gun?

CRUMP: When you watch this video, the thing that jumps out at me as well as many other people is how unnecessary this is. This police officer escalated a simple misdemeanor traffic stop to the point of an execution when he shot Patrick in the back of his head. And it is very troubling because he never tried to deescalate.

And while we are here in America and leaders around the world are making sure that we condemn Russian soldiers who are shooting civilians in the back of their head in Ukraine, well, we want them to also condemn police officers shooting unarmed black civilians in the back of the head here in America. [20:55:01]

BERMAN: So, when asked what officers are trained to do in these types of situations, the Grand Rapids police chief, he didn't say much other than they try to get the individual into custody. He also declined to comment on if the officer's use of force conform the department policy. So, what more do you want to hear from the chief and others by way of an explanation or accountability?

CRUMP: Well, what you want to here, especially the family and the community, when you have an unnecessary, unjustified killing of an unarmed citizen over a traffic stop, we want to see accountability. We want to make sure that this officer is terminated for such a flagrant excessive use of force.

I mean, John, this was a person who could have called for backup. It was a traffic stop. He had the car there. He had a passenger in the car. Patrick was in flip-flops when he was killed. You could see that he was barefooted.

There was no mean. I mean, just ponder for a moment all the things this officer could have done besides shoot this young man in the back of his head, breaking his parents' heart and leaving his infant children fatherless.

BERMAN: Benjamin Crump, we do appreciate you being with us tonight. Thank you.

CRUMP: Thank you.

BERMAN: We'll be right back.