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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Protest Outside Supreme Court After Leak Of Draft Opinion On Roe; Interview With Rep. Cori Bush (D-MO); CNN Speaks With Some Of The Evacuees From The Azovstal Steel Plant In Mariupol; Polls Close In Ohio Races That Test Trump's Influence; 7 GOP Candidates Vying To Replace Retiring Sen. Portman. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 03, 2022 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Mitch McConnell is holding his breath right now, you can bet, because they really want to keep this in G.O.P. hands.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, thank you both so very much as we continue to watch these crucial results in Ohio.
Thanks for joining us.
AC 360 starts now.
[20:00:17]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Good evening.
These are live pictures of protests in front of the Supreme Court building in Washington, after a leaked draft opinion of a Supreme Court decision indicated that a majority on the Court may be ready to fundamentally reshape abortion rights in this country, and potentially so much more.
I'm John Berman, in for Anderson, and we begin tonight with yes, the shockwaves from the news that broke just over 24 hours ago, but also the question, what now?
Before trying to answer that question, which we will attempt over the next hour, here is what we know.
A leaked opinion obtained by POLITICO and since confirmed by a spokesman for the Supreme Court, indicates that a majority of Justices are ready to strike down the landmark decision Roe versus Wade, which legalized abortion nationwide or the Justices were ready when the draft was written.
The draft majority opinion, in it, its author, Justice Samuel Alito calls the 1973 decision, quote, "Egregiously wrong from the start." Today, we have seen the fallout from those words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If this decision holds, it is really quite a radical decision. Does this mean that in Florida, they can decide they're going to pass
a law saying that same sex marriage is not permissible? It's against the law in Florida.
So there's a whole -- it is a fundamental shift in American jurisprudence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So Democrats worried about abortion rights, but also what such a decision could mean for other rights secured by Court decision including same sex marriage. Republicans and Democrats today scouring over which is more worrisome, the possible decision or the leak itself?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): The Republican appointed Justices reported votes to overturn Roe v. Wade will go down as an abomination. One of the worst, most damaging decisions in modern history.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So do you take personal credit for abortion rights likely to go away from millions of people in this country?
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Yes, I think the story today is an effort by someone on the inside to discredit the institution of the Senate.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): Really? Isn't the whole issue is about a leak? This is about five extremist Justices on the United States Supreme Court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So one Republican, Maine Senator Susan Collins is on the defensive this evening after that draft leaked mostly because two conservative justices Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh, who joined the majority to overturn Roe according to this draft opinion. They told Senator Collins they wouldn't do what apparently they just did.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Neil Gorsuch for whom you voted, don't you think he's probably going to vote to overturn Roe versus Wade if given the chance?
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): I actually don't.
I do not believe that Brett Kavanaugh will overturn Roe v. Wade.
BASH: If precedents are overturned --
COLLINS: He noted that Roe had been reaffirmed 19 years later by Planned Parenthood versus Casey and that it was precedent on precedent. He said it should be extremely rare that it be overturned and it
should be an example --
BASH: You obviously full confidence.
COLLINS: I do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Senator Susan Collins tonight, it seems could be wrong on two counts. Today, she did offer this statement. She said, quote: "If this leaked draft opinion is the final decision and this reporting is accurate, it would be completely inconsistent with what Justice Gorsuch and Justice Kavanaugh said in their hearings in our meetings in my office."
As Chief Justice John Roberts noted today, this is not the final decision. We do not know what that is nor what its implications will be. We do know that the political fallout has already begun with midterm elections just over six months away, and that's just the start of it.
I'm joined now by our senior legal affairs correspondent, Paula Reid who is at the Supreme Court.
Paula, what's the latest reaction for members of the Court particularly the Chief Justice?
PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, the Chief Justice has issued a statement calling this leak and egregious breach of trust, and he's asking the Marshal for the Court to investigate. But unless it turns out that this was the result of a theft or a hack, this is likely to continue to be a political issue and not necessarily a criminal matter.
But this extraordinary leak has given us some really incredible insight into the process that the Justices go through when deciding these cases.
For example, sources tell CNN that the Chief Justice was not willing to overturn Roe and likely would dissent from this draft opinion by Alito and would side with the liberal Justices, though he was willing to uphold the Mississippi law at the center of this case, which bans abortions after 15 weeks.
Now in his statement, the Chief Justice also spoke to potential motivation for this leak. He said: "If the intention here was to try to undermine the integrity of the Court, it will not succeed." He said that the Court's work will not be impacted by this leak.
[20:05:15]
BERMAN: Paula, how rare is it for a leak like this to occur?
REID: Look, John, any reporter who covers the Supreme Court will tell you that that building behind me can really keep some secrets. I mean, this is such an extraordinary breach of the code of silence around the Supreme Court, especially for decisions before they are ultimately published.
So the Court has confirmed the authenticity of this draft, but insists, look, this is not the final decision on these issues. But that is too little to quell the backlash. You can hear protesters behind me. There are more protests scheduled throughout the week. You have that in addition to, of course, the fallout on Capitol Hill, and this issue will likely continue to dominate through the midterms and beyond.
BERMAN: Yes, what comes next?
REID: So the big question now, John, is whether any of these Justices have changed their votes, or if the contours of this opinion have changed? We likely won't know that until late next month, when the final opinion is published.
But while we await those answers on these critical questions about abortion and other individual rights that have been recognized by the Courts, people will continue to of course ask, who leaked this? And why?
But right now, all we have on those two questions, is speculation and no answers.
BERMAN: Paula Reid, thank you very much for that.
So for some elected officials, the course draft opinion on abortion rights is not merely political, it's one that strikes at a very personal decision they themselves had to make once.
Last September, several House members shared their own stories about terminating pregnancies, including Congresswoman Cori Bush of Missouri who spoke about being raped at the age of 17.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CORI BUSH (D-MO): Choosing to have an abortion was the hardest decision I had ever made, but at 18 years old, I knew it was the right decision for me. It was freeing, knowing I had options, even still, it took long for me to feel like me again, until most recently, when I decided to give this speech.
So to all the Black women and girls who have had abortions and will have abortions, we have nothing to be ashamed of. So today, I sit before you as that nurse, as that pastor -- as that pastor, as that activist, that survivor, that single mom, that Congresswoman to testify that in the summer of 1994, I was raped, I became pregnant, and I chose to have an abortion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Just before air time, I spoke with Congresswoman Bush about the Court's draft decision, and its potential ramifications.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: Congresswoman Bush, thank you so much for joining us. This is obviously incredibly personal for you, how has your own experience influenced how you viewed the news the last 24 hours?
BUSH: You know, it was a gut punch. You know, it was -- because I wasn't expecting to hear anything, you know, yesterday evening, wasn't expecting, you know, for this draft opinion to be leaked. But just to know now, like where this is headed -- like to know for sure where this is headed, I'm thinking about the 36 million women that this will affect, those who -- especially those when we talk about who is most directly impacted, who is impacted the most.
We're talking about Black and Brown and indigenous and our LGBTQIA community members, and I am broken about this, because I remember when I didn't know that there was -- I didn't know that there was a world when I was 18 and I went through this, when I was 17, and I thought about it and then 18 when I actually made the decision. I didn't know that there was a world where that option wasn't available.
BERMAN: Yet look, if what happened to you when you were 17 and then 18 happens to a girl in Missouri in two months if Roe versus Wade is overturned, what recourse will she have?
BUSH: Exactly. And so that's for us to -- that's what we have to push back right now because we know that the barriers to accessing abortion and other healthcare services, you know, finding healthcare is one thing, but then finding the childcare, taking time off work, navigating the cost of transportation, thinking about people having to travel.
I worked in a community based health center and we work to make sure people have bus passes to be able to get around within the city. But we're talking about people having to have lodging and travel hundreds or thousands of miles to be able to have this, to have this healthcare procedure that should be there right.
Healthcare is a human right and you know, I think about what would have happened had I not had that the ability to have an abortion.
[20:10:09]
BUSH: What would have happened to me? What would have happened to that child? John, I was not in the mental and the financial position, the emotional position to be able to take care of a child and I think about those that will walk into this now.
BERMAN: Yes, if it had been illegal in the state where you were, what do you think you would have done?
BUSH: Yes, yes. You know, I don't know, because I never had to think about it. But that's where we are forcing people right now, because they have to think about it.
Someone is pregnant right now, someone just found out that they were pregnant, that they are pregnant, and they have to make a quick decision, being able to take some time. This is such a huge decision that some people need time, you know, but we're taking time away from them. Now they know that they have to figure out what they're going to do, because this decision may be written most likely is going to be written, and then this takes us back to knowing that the leading cause of death for Black women in the years before Roe, before 73 was sepsis.
It was you know, having those septic abortions, and then when we think about how that affects us now, in 2022, Black women and birthing people are three times to four times more likely to die in childbirth in this country. So what are we saying? We are pushing people into a more dangerous situation with these forced pregnancies.
BERMAN: I know you support abolishing the Senate filibuster and trying to codify Roe versus Wade. President Biden said today that he is, quote, "not prepared to make a judgement on whether the Senate should do that." And both Senator Manchin and Senator Sinema reiterated their support for the filibuster today. So, where are the votes to get that done?
BUSH: You know, we would love to see the President put his weight behind protecting this right to abortion. This is his presidency. This is his time, his moment. He should be coming out in support of abolishing the filibuster. So he should show up in the Senate, show up, work with the caucus so we can get every single vote that we need to pass it.
Like the President has weight. The presidency has weight. Show up. You know, because we need to pass this. Yes, it failed in the Senate before the Women's Health Protection Act, but we need it now. We've got to codify it. And he should be supporting also expanding the Supreme Court.
So like, I think we have to come at this multiple ways. And let me say this, too. As far as our President and everyone, all of us, everything is on the table and nothing is too big. Like this is an emergency. We are in crisis.
So we need Congress, we need the President, everybody has to do everything that they can right now.
Secure our rights. Secure our freedoms.
BERMAN: Congresswoman Cori Bush, thank you for your time tonight.
BUSH: Thank you, John.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: I'm joined now by Republican Mia Love, a former Congresswoman from Utah; Democrat Wendy Davis, former state senator from Texas, and CNN chief legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, a former Federal prosecutor.
Senator Davis, we heard from you last time in this program as the news was breaking. It's been roughly 24 hours now, what's going through your mind? WENDY DAVIS (D), FORMER TEXAS STATE SENATOR: Today is a day of
resolve, and you saw that at rallies around the country at five o'clock Central Time. There were rallies at Federal Courthouses throughout the country. And it's just the beginning of what I think is going to be an important tipping point in the 2022 election cycle because everyone that I've talked to in this 24-hour period, men and women alike is committed to making sure that we do everything we can to restore this important right.
And the conversation in the election, of course, is about so much more than advancing a Federal protection. It's also about preventing the opportunity for Republicans to advance a Federal Bill that will actually outlaw abortion in states throughout the country.
Right now, we know that 26 states joined that amicus brief, that filing in the Mississippi case, all of which are expressing a desire to terminate abortion rights in their states that will leave us with less than half of our states providing the care that people need.
And as Congresswoman Bush said, it isn't going to be possible for so, so many people and we're going to see a tremendously disparate impact as a consequence of this.
We cannot risk losing the U.S. House. We cannot risk a year in which we do not keep Democrats in power at every level, because if we do, I can assure you that is what is coming. And I think for a lot of people in this country, what happened yesterday has woken them up to a reality, an understanding that this right that we've taken for granted for so long and these Republican lawmakers who they've supported and have believed will actually never succeed in overturning this right, have done so. It's a wake-up call for all of us.
[20:15:16]
BERMAN: Congresswoman Love, you agree with the Court's decision in this draft opinion. This is an issue you worked on along with others, other Republicans in Congress. To what extent is this feel like a culmination of your efforts and the efforts of Republicans around the country for decades?
MIA LOVE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's still shocking. I mean, just the leak itself was unprecedented. And we don't know why it was leaked, I'm not going to say that it was an attempt to intimidate or undermine, we don't know that and I hope that that comes to light.
But there are two extreme bookends here. When it comes to debate on abortion. There is the unrestricted abortion at any time, under any circumstance, and then there's the other bookend, which is no abortion no matter what, even in the cases of rape incest and the life of a mother, and Americans aren't there.
There is somewhere in the middle -- actually everywhere in the middle, because it's so personal. It's incredibly personal and individual. And we -- I have felt that as a nation, we should do everything that we possibly can to protect an unborn child, because that is our potential. I do believe in making sure that there are some cases that we -- that
it's up to the family, rape incest, life of a mother, government shouldn't be making those decisions. Individuals should be making those decisions.
So having this go back to states, I feel more comfortable working in my state of Utah for a bill that is going to be better for Utahns.
And the same thing with every other state instead of nine Supreme Court Justices making one decision that everybody has to live under.
BERMAN: Even though you know there are states that have already passed laws that would trigger immediately, where there are not all the exceptions that you just called for there.
LOVE: And I'll tell you, I would fight like hell to make sure that those people aren't elected because -- especially people making the decision that is so incredibly personal.
When a woman has an unwanted pregnancy, it's traumatizing. It's incredibly difficult. And what we should be working on honestly, this is the thing that really bugs me, what we should be working on is giving more women more access, more opportunity, so that they can control their reproductive health.
It bugs me every time I go to a CVS and I can get -- you can get condoms over the counter, you can get Plan B over the counter, but you can't even get contraceptives. You can't get birth control over the counter.
It's difficult to do that. We can't -- I worked on this bill to give more people more options, more women more options so they don't have to make a decision between keeping a life and ending a life and those who have horrible, horrible experiences like rape incest, or the life of a mother can still choose for themselves to have an abortion because that's choosing one life over another.
BERMAN: So Jeff, if the Court does overturn Roe in a couple of months, or whenever it decides to issue this decision, what kinds of real world implications will need to be addressed?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Lots, I mean, you know, well, that's the thing that's really hit me over the course of this day, which is if this law, if this decision becomes the law of the land, it's really the beginning of a new chapter in American law.
What are the penalties? You know, what are the penalties? Let me ask the Congresswoman. I mean, you know, you think that abortion is the taking of a life. Congresswoman, how many years in prison should a woman get if she just -- you know, not a rape, it wasn't a product of a rape or incest, just an unwanted pregnancy. She has an abortion in Utah. She took a life intentionally. How many years should she go to prison for?
LOVE: I am not going to be the Judge, juror or executioner. I am just going to do everything I can to make sure that that woman hopefully has all of the resources and all of the information that they need so they can make an informed decision and I am going to be incredibly compassionate.
TOOBIN: You're a lawmaker. You're a lawmaker. What are the penalties? How many years in prison for that one?
LOVE: I wouldn't put -- I wouldn't put somebody in prison.
TOOBIN: Even though she took a life? But you just said she took a life.
LOVE: I am not going to put somebody in prison for an unwanted pregnancy. But what I said I would do is try and protect life. And I think we should all be in the business of protecting life. It doesn't mean that you have to take somebody else's life away to protect an unborn child.
BERMAN: Senator Davis, I do want to ask you this focus on the leak versus the focus on what happens if this is actually the decision. Do you think the focus on the leak is merited?
[20:20:12]
DAVIS: You know, clearly Mitch McConnell wants that to be our focus. But the reality here is that the focus needs to be on 49 years of legislative jurisprudence that has allowed women the rights to control our futures, our destinies, our own bodies by doing that.
And with all due respect to the Congresswoman, every woman, every person who can give birth should have the right to make this very personal decision for themselves. In no situation, whether we're talking about rape or incest or life of the mother, whether we're talking about the experience that I had with a very much wanted pregnancy that ended in a fatal fetal abnormality, whether we're talking about someone who has three children at home, and who can barely afford to make ends meet, and is making the very best decision she can for the children that she already has, or whether it's a young college woman who simply wasn't ready to be pregnant yet and has a future plan for herself that she wants to fulfill, none of us has the right to stand in the shoes of that person and make that decision for them and that's what is happening with this law.
And also with due respect, in Texas, just a couple of weeks ago, a woman was arrested and indicted for choosing to terminate her pregnancy, that in spite of what Congresswoman Love would choose to do, that is where states like Texas are headed and so many other states around this country if we don't do something about it.
BERMAN: We've got to leave it there. Senator Davis, Congresswoman Love, Jeffrey Toobin, thank you all very much for the discussion.
We're going to continue our coverage of the protests in the Court's draft opinion next.
Also, the former President of Planned Parenthood will join us to discuss the number of states that could pass abortion bans if the courts make a full reversal of Roe versus Wade.
And later John King at the magic wall tracking pivotal primary elections in Ohio that could not only determine the control of the Senate, but control of the Republican Party and whether the former President still holds sway. This is very close as the votes come in.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:25:28]
BERMAN: Again, we want to show you these images from Washington. Protests over the draft Supreme Court decision leaked last night that would overturn Roe versus Wade and that could just be the start.
According to the Guttmacher Institute, which supports abortion rights, more than half of states, 26 to be exact, could feature abortion bans if the Court strikes down Roe. I'm joined now by the former President of Planned Parenthood, Cecile Richards.
Cecile, thank you so much for joining us tonight. I just want to ask on the implications, the real-world implications on women if this decision comes down the way that it could, 26 states could ban abortion at some level; 13 it would happen immediately. What does it mean for a woman in one of those states?
CECILE RICHARDS, FORMER CEO OF PLANNED PARENTHOOD: Well, and I know you were just talking to Wendy Davis from Texas, we've already sort of seen what it looks like in a state.
In the state of Texas, thousands of women have had to cross state lines, ironically to go to Mississippi and Oklahoma and Louisiana, places that in fact, if this opinion comes out as it is written, those states would also become places where it would be impossible to access abortion.
And what we've already seen in Texas as well is that of course, the people that are the most affected are people who do not have the financial resources to travel across the country, don't have the resources to leave their jobs, leave their kids with someone else, young people.
I know that, you know, we were talking about -- you were talking about earlier, the young woman, 26 years old, who not only was indicted in South Texas, but put in jail for two days. And of course, under Texas law, not able to actually ask for help from a friend or relative, someone from her church or her school, because of the bounty hunter system that is in place in the State of Texas that puts all of those people at risk. So the implications are dire.
But one thing, John, that I think people are, and I know you all are beginning to get to this is there are so many worse bills on the books that have not been actually implemented because Roe.
Texas is a good example where if in fact Roe falls, there is a book on -- there is a bill on the books that would that would criminalize all people, any person, any doctor, any nurse that helps with an abortion, put them in jail, potentially for life.
We are now going to see the criminalization of healthcare providers all across this country. I don't think the American people are ready for that. And it's absolutely not what they want.
BERMAN: And to be clear, there are 13 states that have these trigger provisions, which means if Roe is overturned, the laws go into effect instantly. Right?
RICHARDS: That's exactly right. Look, John, I think what we are anticipating here, if in fact, this opinion by these five Justices on the Court goes into effect is, we will see a summer of a cascading number of states implementing abortion restrictions, creating complete and total chaos.
Most people had no idea that this was even in the works and the thought that five Judges on the Supreme Court would overturn precedent of nearly 50 years in this country, it is unthinkable. And, you know, I think that what all of us have been, you know, really wrestling with is the cruelty and the harm that is going to be done to women, to young people, to folks who really don't even know where to turn.
And the thought that the Republican Party who not only put these Justices on the Supreme Court, but the party that has been passing these abortion bans all across the country, it is unthinkable to me that they would want to put women and pregnant people in this position.
BERMAN: One of the arguments that you do hear as well, there are at least 24 states where abortion will still be legal. So, why not go there?
RICHARDS: Well, for now, but let's just be real. You know, I come from the state of Texas millions and millions of women. There are so many women who have never left the state and the thought of finding a way to get somewhere across the country because there is nowhere nearby to get across the country, find the resources again, take care of the children that they already have. For many women they already have children, it's absolutely unthinkable.
And I've heard heartbreaking stories already from women who have tried to terminate a pregnancy in Texas and who have been turned away because they were past the six weeks, which is now the law in Texas and these are women who are now caring, potentially carrying a pregnancy to term that they never intended and they do not want to carry.
[20:30:23]
BERMAN: You said something very interesting. You said, you don't think that most people realize this was even a possibility? You've done some work on this and polling on this. Did you find that a lot of people will support what you do didn't think this would ever happen? RICHARDS: Absolutely, in fact, me, more than 70% of the American people support access to safe and legal abortion. But there I think it was for them. And we even pulled on this, you know, we talked about what had happened in Texas. And a lot of people, women and men said, well, it can't happen here. That could never happen here. But you look now at the number of states that in anticipation of this decision have now passed these severe abortion bans, you know, criminalizing health care providers. All of these are states, of course, have one thing in common they are run by Republican legislatures and governors.
And so, this is actually coming to very many states in the country. As you as you showed the map, this is going to be dozens of states. And I fear that not only is that at risk, are we at risk in the states that have already banned abortion. But if the Republicans take control of the United States Congress, I believe the first bill up will be an attempt to make a national abortion ban in this country. And again, this is not something the American people asked for. It's not what they want. It's something that the Republican Party has been focused on for years and years and years. And it looks like they're finally going to get their wish.
BERMAN: Cecile Richards, thank you for your time tonight.
RICHARDS: Good to see you.
BERMAN: Up next, we turn to Ukraine and hear from some of the first people evacuated from the basement in the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol after spending weeks trap their underground.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:35:41]
BERMAN: Evacuation efforts in the Mariupol area resumed today with the UN saying 156 people have now arrived in Zaporizhzhia from the Azovstal steel plant and surrounding area following an evacuation corridor effort. Many of those rescued were trapped for weeks in the basement of the steel plant unable to see the sun and living under traumatic conditions with heavy shelling and lack of food, water and sanitation. That's according to the UN humanitarian coordinator in Ukraine.
CNN international security editor Nick Paton Walsh spoke with some of those who were evacuated. Here are their stories.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR (voice-over): Five buses only, but within them the world's hopes of a way to deliver innocent Ukrainians to safety from Russia's onslaught. Just over 100 civilians, the first to leave the basement of the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol bringing with them stories of the circle of hell they lived in underground for weeks.
This is Olga. After two months in the dark. She struggles in sunlight still I asked her if she can see OK. But she says, I can't see anything in the sun. Age 78 and she keeps saying completely alone. Her entire life is in these two bags.
Forty eight hours earlier she was pictured in a Ukrainian military video just walking out of Mariupol cheerfully across a bridge. Now via the UN and Red Cross talks in Moscow and Kyiv and countless Russian checkpoints. She is here. Worried she cannot fend for herself as a wound to her leg isn't healing because of her diabetes. The head torch that was her only source of light still around her neck. Her toilet roll in her pocket.
(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
WALSH (voice-over): Also coming off the bus is another familiar face Anna with six-month-old (INAUDIBLE) embraced by her brother, one of many family reunions here. She was also seen in the same video as Olga leaving Mariupol, the day after (INAUDIBLE) turned six months old. She is a French teacher in happier times.
(on-camera): How do you feel now?
ANNA, AZOVSTAL EVACUEE: Now I feel happy and exhausted. Because two months in basic.
WALSH (on-camera): How can you live for two months in a basement with a four-month-old boy? How you ease?
ANNA: Now I smile because I can smile, finally, because all these months I was crying the Lord's everyday. Emotionally it was really very, very difficult. When we didn't have any hot water for him, we just took a candle and we heat water at -- on the candle.
WALSH (voice-over): The busy world she's emerged into now different for her.
ANNA: For me now (INAUDIBLE), how to say.
WALSH (voice-over): (INAUDIBLE).
ANNA: Yes, yes, it's the most difficult and the most scared (INAUDIBLE). Because now I -- when I -- sorry, it's emotionally.
WALSH (on-camera): Of course.
ANNA: Now when there are lots of noise, I have like a reflex to hide myself, you know.
WALSH (on-camera): What are you going to tell him when he's older?
ANNA: I just tell him that he was really very, very brave boy. Very brave. He's very calm. He's the best child in the world I can say he's (INAUDIBLE).
WALSH (on-camera): He's sleeping well, so that's good.
ANNA: Yes, yes, all the time.
WALSH (on-camera): It's all you going to ask for. Exactly. [20:40:01]
ANNA: Yes. And also I can see that I didn't want for him to repeat this story were -- to repeat the story with his child.
WALSH (voice-over): Yet the terror they bore witness to will fuel (INAUDIBLE) won't pass quickly.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: Amazing. And Nick Paton Walsh joins me now from Zaporizhzhia. Nick, you know, is it clear to you from your reporting how aid workers will be able in the weeks ahead to extract the thousands and thousands of civilians that are still in Mariupol?
WALSH: Yes, I mean, it's clear that it will be far from easy. John, today was supposed to not really just be that 156 or so there had been hopes that as that convoy moved through areas where there are thousands of civilians looking for an exit, looking for that sort of easy ride through Russian checkpoints that it would swell, that it will grow to possibly thousands, that we would have seen rather than just five buses, a large, huge convoy of vehicles piling into Zaporizhzhia here. Instead, you just got that small contingent of individuals, apparently, because the Russians became much less keen on letting large groups through.
Now, it may be that this is a test case of symbolic moments and where the United Nations and Red Cross who labored tirelessly to get this to happen, the fine they can continue and repeat or even enlarge that mechanism in the weeks or even days ahead to get thousands of people out. Remember, there are 100,000 people in Mariupol who are thought to be possibly looking for some kind of way out of Russian occupation, continued shelling, and also to the urgent escalating threat of disease, because the lack of basic utilities.
But I have to say, looking at the slow progress of these 150 or so individuals on those small number of buses, how torturous it was for them to get out. It does look like certainly a tough situation for the United Nations. They certainly have had the high level contacts in Moscow, Kyiv, the Secretary General flying to Moscow meeting Vladimir Putin himself. This may have been the reason why this particular group got out. But whether this suddenly turns into the vital humanitarian corridor that many have been looking for to rescue thousands of people who just urgently need to get to safety here and Ukrainian held territory. I think that's a tough task for now, John.
BERMAN: Nick Paton Walsh reporting from Ukraine. Nick, stay safe please.
Here at home, we have breaking news we are getting new results in and a key U.S. Senate primary race in Ohio, an early test of the former president's influence over the Republican Party only one candidate J.D. Vance got his support. John King will join us at the magic wall with the results as they come in. Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:45:33]
BERMAN: Breaking news, we're getting new numbers in from the Ohio primary races. Polls closed in the state in the last hour. One of the biggest races there is for the U.S. Senate. This is the first test of the former president's influence over the party for November's midterm elections. Seven Republican candidates are vying to replace retiring Senator Rob Portman. In front of the field right now J.D. Vance, the Hillbilly Elegy author and venture capitalist who is backed by the former president. Also Josh Mandel, the former state treasurer, who was embraced the former president's cultural battles but did not get his support. And there's a possible late rise from state senator Matt Dolan, whose family owns the Major League Baseball team the Cleveland Guardians, and the only Republican candidate not supporting the former presidents lies on election fraud.
John King, tracking the results joins us now from the magic wall. John, where do things stand right now in Ohio?
JOHN KING, CNN HOST: It is fascinating John and this split field is making it all the more interesting. You mentioned J.D. Vance, the author and venture capitalist, he's on top, he has the Trump endorsement. It no doubt and it helped him in the final days of the campaign. The question as we count the votes tonight is will it help him enough? He's got 28 and a half percent of the vote, a 10,000 vote lead, 10,000 in change over Josh Mandel about 12,000 over Matt Dolan you just mentioned. He is the least Trumpy of the candidates. He says he's not anti-Trump. But Josh Dolan -- Matt Dolan, excuse me distinguished himself among these candidates, and there are two others as well. Mike Gibbons and the former state party chair Jane Timken.
Matt Dolan distinguished himself by saying the Republican Party has to put the big lie behind it, just stop talking about Trump's big lie. Says he's not anti-Trump, but he says the party has to turn the page. So where are we John? As you see Trump ran it up in places like Ohio by winning all these small rural counties. At the moment you see Josh Mandel winning out here in this part of the state. But why is this so close? Josh Mandel is winning some of these small rural counties. J.D. Vance is winning the others. Again, we're still counting the votes as we go. And you get here we are just about 20% of the vote. So a long way to go in the count. If Matt Dolan could pull this off, it's going to be interesting, because here's what we're going to watch. Franklin County is the largest county population wise in the state. It has the state capitol, Columbus. Matt Dolan is in the State Senate. This is what you would think of in your state wherever you're watching the political establishment which lives in and around the Capitol. Right. Matt Dolan is the Republican establishment.
Look at the margin in Franklin County so far, we're only at 12%, no guarantee this margin holds up. But if this margin holds up, he can add some votes here and come back. He's 12,000 votes back right now. That's in Columbus. Then you come up to Cuyahoga County. You mentioned his family owns the Guardians. He's well known in the Cleveland area up here. Look at the margin up here. This is one of Donald Trump's weakest county. So Republicans here traditional suburban Republicans, Chamber of Commerce Republicans, least likely you might say in the state to say, oh, Donald Trump says I should be for J.D. Vance. Look at the margins here, this is the second largest population by county wise in the state. If Matt Dolan can keep the margins here, suburban Republicans could help them be competitive.
One last one, John, we have nothing yet no votes from Hamilton County. It's the third most populous county in the state. It is Cincinnati in the suburbs around it. It is the home base of the retiring Senator Rob Portman, he was the congressman here before he went on to win statewide and be the senator here. Again, not a Trump stronghold, Hamilton County, so we're waiting to see results there. At the moment, J.D. Vance is ahead, but you do have the possible dynamic of the Trump endorsed candidate and the very pro Trump candidate. They're about 50% if you add them both up, it is possible as we count more votes than Matt Dolan, you could have an establishment strikes back moment, if you will, but a lot of counting still to do.
BERMAN: What are the races you looking at no aisle?
KING: So let's look we've projected onto let's just go to the Senate Democratic race right now. Congressman, Tim Ryan, you see in the primary here, he has more than 73% of the votes. CNN has projected, the Democratic Congressman who's from this part of the state over here, Youngstown, will be the candidate, he will be the Democratic candidate and what will certainly be an uphill race, but Democrats are hoping -- they're hoping they get an inexperienced candidate on the Republican side, and perhaps an uphill challenge for the Democrats. But Tim Ryan, the Democratic congressman, will be their candidate.
And then on the governor side, this is an interesting one as well. Mike DeWine has been an incumbent Republican in the COVID age. So what are we looking for not just in Ohio, but all primary season long? Two incumbents get whacked a little bit for voters who are frustrated. Well, again, you have Mike DeWine, winning we have projected -- CNN projects he will be the Republican nominee the incumbent governor, but if you do look here, he's 52% of the vote. So a possible sign there, number one, Jim Renacci, the former congressman, said he's not conservative enough. Renacci said he was the more Trumpy Republican in the race. Joe Blystone making his first run for office and getting 20% of the vote. So that's Mike DeWine will be favored in the election come November to win reelection as governor of Ohio. But he has to look at these numbers and say guess what even in my own party there are some people giving me a kick.
[20:50:05]
BERMAN: All right John stick around for a second, I want to bring in Abby Phillip CNN senior political correspondent and anchor of "INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY." Also with a CNN political director, David Chalian.
David, how much insight are we going to get tonight on the value of a Donald Trump endorsement and Republican politics?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, if J.D. Vance holds up that lead that you just saw John King showing you there, we could get a lot of insight because J.D. Vance was running back in the pack. He's now nearly 13,000 votes in the lead here. His lead is growing here, as we get more voting now more than if at about 21% Of the estimated voting, and he's building that lead if he can keep that up, as these votes come in. Obviously, John, you know, Donald Trump is going to claim an immense amount of credit, J.D. Vance, is probably going to be very eager to share that credit with the former president.
And in this moment that is kicking off a month of tests for Donald Trump in some very high profile races, getting a victory in his column. This on the first Tuesday in May, will be really important to him to say to the party, hey, my choice for a candidate still matters. I'm still the guy that you got to come and kiss the ring. I still have the sway and the juice inside this party.
BERMAN: So Abby, you know, State Senator Matt Dolan is the only Republican candidate in that field really who hasn't gone along with the big lie. He surged over the last week or so in the polls may be doing better than expected. But, you know, is this a case where the only way this makes an impact nationwide is a win as a win? Or if he performs better than expected, does it show some strength in opposing the big lie?
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: If he performs better than expected, it tells us a little bit about what the size of this sort of Republican contingent that's not comfortable with the big lie. Maybe they want Donald Trump to be in the rearview mirror. How big is that contingent in a state like Ohio? And what does that tell us about what might happen in a general election? Where do those voters go, if they're dissatisfied with the options that really might include a Trump -- Trumpist candidate or a Trumpist candidate? So I think that that's part of what it tells us.
But I also just want to want to say that one thing about this, you know, Trump endorsement of J.D. Vance, and if he were to win tonight, it would also tell us that, you know, Trump is very fixated on bringing people who used to be critical of him back into the fold. And it would really show that he has the power to kind of rehabilitate people who were staunchly anti-Trump. And I think he views that as an incredibly powerful, you know, sign of his strength in the in the Republican Party. And I think if J.D. Vance win would only cause him to take a huge victory lap on that front. And it would -- I think it would also indicate to a lot of people who might have been skeptical of Trump in the past that now it's time to come home, because if they can get his endorsement, they might actually win, even if they were critical in the past.
BERMAN: So John, the news of the Supreme Court ruling, the possibility of overturning Roe vs. Wade from this draft opinion, that news is just 24 hours old. It's May, what do you see as the possible impact come November?
KING: I think the most important answer is we don't know John, and anyone who says they know is winging it. But let me change maps just to go through what the conversation is in some of the political parties. We know we're watching the Ohio Senate primaries play out tonight. We know control of the Senate is one of the key battlegrounds in this midterm election year. It is split 50-50 right now. So how might it's the Supreme Court decides to wipe away Roe v. Wade? Wipe away Planned Parenthood versus Casey. What are the parties thinking about?
You know, another Senate race, a big Senate races in Pennsylvania. Republicans want to hold that seat. Democrats think that's one of the very few places they could pick a seat up. Here's what Democrats think well, maybe young voters traditionally don't vote in midterm elections, maybe the threat or the law of shaping change and abortion rights being taken off the book, maybe that motivates them. The suburbs were key to Joe Biden key to the Democrats in 2018. Republicans thinks they can get them back this year because of inflation, because of immigration. Does abortion rights? Does the Supreme Court landmark decision saying never mind, Roe v. Wade no longer is the law of the land. The suburban women in Philadelphia, for example, who might be ready to vote against Joe Biden vote Republican? Do they say no? I'm going to stay with the Democrats. That's one place to watch it.
Evangelicals, will they be happy and turn out in droves and help the Republicans retake Georgia? Or will suburban women again, who might have been Republicans in the past who came to the Democrats in recent years? Maybe we're ready to go back to the Republicans do they change? So that's a place for watch.
One other quick point there also remember the races for Governor all across this country. And if Roe v. Wade is taken off the books, Congress does not step in, then this will be left to the states John. And you will see this as a Senate map. But you will see in governor's races here, here, here and elsewhere, candidates for governor being forced. Do you support a full ban on abortions, 15 weeks restrictions on abortions or codifying a full -- like Roe in your state law. So this issue will play out hugely who benefits we don't know the answer that yet.
[20:55:01]
BERMAN: John King, Abby Phillip, David Chalian, great to see you all at night. Thank you all so much.
Up next, more on the protests across the country tonight on what could come next after that leaked draft opinion from the Supreme Court suggests a majority has voted to overturn abortion rights or could vote to overturn abortion rights in America.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: All right, this is a live look at some of the protests across the country tonight after the leak of a Supreme Court draft opinion suggesting the court will move to overturn Roe vs. Wade. The final opinion will be released we think by the end of the courts term. As we mentioned, if Roe vs. Wade is reversed, it could lead to abortion bans or severe restrictions in 26 states. That analysis from the Guttmacher Institute which supports abortion rights. This could mean that women who are seeking to have abortions may have to travel hundreds of miles from their home states, with the analysis showing Illinois, North Carolina and California among the states that could see the biggest jump in out of state abortion patients. The courts term usually wraps up around the end of June. That leaked opinion was expected to be one of the last ones issued.
[21:00:00]
Again a live look at the protests outside the court and there are others around the country as well.
The news continues. So let's hand it over to Laura Coates in "CNN TONIGHT." Laura.
